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Punishing Schools.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

BBC reports that a think tanks suggests that students who get poor grades in English and Maths, should be penalised and pay a levy to colleges to allow the student to take it again!

If poor education is the proven reason then yes avenues of redress need exploring yes,but some students are not capable of such grades,not interested or simply focused on other aspects. Pointless exercise? Especially as it's tax payers money anyway.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Who should be penalised? The students?

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Who should be penalised? The students?"

Are you saying that everyone has the aptitude to pass all exams? Why penalise anyone? I can't run 100m under 10 seconds....should my running club be penalised?

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By *irtyGirlWoman
over a year ago

Edinburgh

I think some kids just aren't academic. There was a post floating round bookface a while ago about how exams don't show how creative a kid is or how wel they can sing or their talents in woodwork. Not everyone needs to be a master in English or Maths and quite frankly if the government put the money they waste on these think tanks into encourage kids to thrive in the things they're good at I'd be much happier.

My parents insisted that I do secretarial skills and economics at school so I could get a 'proper job' which in their minds was in an office. I was good at techie drawing and art and woodwork and really wish I'd been allowed to follow those subjects and done engineering or something practical or creative. That's where my talents lie (although I can type 120 words a minute!) and I'm sure I'd have enjoyed my working life more. If you can have a career in something you love doing you'll never work a day in your life.

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By *irtyGirlWoman
over a year ago

Edinburgh

Shit... typo central (irony alert!) but that made me go off on one. Sorry

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Who should be penalised? The students?

Are you saying that everyone has the aptitude to pass all exams? Why penalise anyone? I can't run 100m under 10 seconds....should my running club be penalised?"

No she was asking who you ment should pay if they don't pass the school or the student

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By *irtyGirlWoman
over a year ago

Edinburgh


"Who should be penalised? The students?

Are you saying that everyone has the aptitude to pass all exams? Why penalise anyone? I can't run 100m under 10 seconds....should my running club be penalised?"

Question marks mean something doofus!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Who should be penalised? The students?

Are you saying that everyone has the aptitude to pass all exams? Why penalise anyone? I can't run 100m under 10 seconds....should my running club be penalised?

No she was asking who you ment should pay if they don't pass the school or the student"

Yes,because it looks like you're saying the students should pay. I'm now thinking you mean the schools should pay colleges? Students get a chance to resit exams in 6th form. The school will do everything possible to help these students pass. Some never will,no matter how much help they get. Some won't work at school because they don't want to,you can't force someone to learn. They sometimes realise as they get older that they should have worked harder in school.

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By *he horny kinkstersCouple
over a year ago

North West

This thread isn't about what I'd hoped it would be about from the title...

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

Too much emphasis on passing exams. A more rounded life skills based education would be better, I think.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Who should be penalised? The students?

Are you saying that everyone has the aptitude to pass all exams? Why penalise anyone? I can't run 100m under 10 seconds....should my running club be penalised?

Question marks mean something doofus! "

It was a rhetorical question you cheeky oaf

The report suggests the schools be financially penalised for poor grades and pay for further education of the student.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Who should be penalised? The students?

Are you saying that everyone has the aptitude to pass all exams? Why penalise anyone? I can't run 100m under 10 seconds....should my running club be penalised?

No she was asking who you ment should pay if they don't pass the school or the student

Yes,because it looks like you're saying the students should pay. I'm now thinking you mean the schools should pay colleges? Students get a chance to resit exams in 6th form. The school will do everything possible to help these students pass. Some never will,no matter how much help they get. Some won't work at school because they don't want to,you can't force someone to learn. They sometimes realise as they get older that they should have worked harder in school. "

My bad and I agree.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Who should be penalised? The students?

Are you saying that everyone has the aptitude to pass all exams? Why penalise anyone? I can't run 100m under 10 seconds....should my running club be penalised?

No she was asking who you ment should pay if they don't pass the school or the student

Yes,because it looks like you're saying the students should pay. I'm now thinking you mean the schools should pay colleges? Students get a chance to resit exams in 6th form. The school will do everything possible to help these students pass. Some never will,no matter how much help they get. Some won't work at school because they don't want to,you can't force someone to learn. They sometimes realise as they get older that they should have worked harder in school. "

And for those children who simply don't care about their education making school pay for their lack of interest won't change anything because they won't care

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

All it will do is keep the poor uneducated. If they can't afford resits, then they won't be going to uni. Nice! If I had a suspicious mind, I might think that was the end result they want.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Who should be penalised? The students?

Are you saying that everyone has the aptitude to pass all exams? Why penalise anyone? I can't run 100m under 10 seconds....should my running club be penalised?

No she was asking who you ment should pay if they don't pass the school or the student

Yes,because it looks like you're saying the students should pay. I'm now thinking you mean the schools should pay colleges? Students get a chance to resit exams in 6th form. The school will do everything possible to help these students pass. Some never will,no matter how much help they get. Some won't work at school because they don't want to,you can't force someone to learn. They sometimes realise as they get older that they should have worked harder in school.

And for those children who simply don't care about their education making school pay for their lack of interest won't change anything because they won't care "

And no matter how much you tell a student the learning is important,no matter how many detentions they get for not doing homework even though homework clubs are available to them,no matter how many extra catch up lessons they are told to come to, they won't pass maths or English. Some students I worked with couldn't scrape through with all the help in the world.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"All it will do is keep the poor uneducated. If they can't afford resits, then they won't be going to uni. Nice! If I had a suspicious mind, I might think that was the end result they want."

Why is this anything to do with the poor? It's about educational aptitude,teaching practices and personal responsibility.

I think there's a a debilitating sense of entitlement coupled with minimal effort in sectors of our society which are the root cause of many of our problems.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Think tanks are there to find the result the current government want so they can justify some new ridiculous policy or law.

This has to be the most ridiculous idea in recent years. They have cut budgets in public spending enough now they are trying to claw back more through less obvious means. Utter cow poop.

Teachers work bloody hard ridiculous hours as is.

Why don't we stop lending money we don't have to other countries and invest it back into our own.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"All it will do is keep the poor uneducated. If they can't afford resits, then they won't be going to uni. Nice! If I had a suspicious mind, I might think that was the end result they want.

Why is this anything to do with the poor? It's about educational aptitude,teaching practices and personal responsibility.

I think there's a a debilitating sense of entitlement coupled with minimal effort in sectors of our society which are the root cause of many of our problems."

Its everything to do with the poor, research has always shown a direct correlation between those from deprived backgrounds and poor academic achievement.

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!


"All it will do is keep the poor uneducated. If they can't afford resits, then they won't be going to uni. Nice! If I had a suspicious mind, I might think that was the end result they want.

Why is this anything to do with the poor? It's about educational aptitude,teaching practices and personal responsibility.

I think there's a a debilitating sense of

entitlement coupled with minimal effort

in sectors of our society which are the

root cause of many of our problems.

"

There's a strong correlation between achievement and wealth, conversely between lack of attainment and poverty. This is why schools get given a pupil premium for kids entitled to free school meals.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"All it will do is keep the poor uneducated. If they can't afford resits, then they won't be going to uni. Nice! If I had a suspicious mind, I might think that was the end result they want.

Why is this anything to do with the poor? It's about educational aptitude,teaching practices and personal responsibility.

I think there's a a debilitating sense of entitlement coupled with minimal effort in sectors of our society which are the root cause of many of our problems.

Its everything to do with the poor, research has always shown a direct correlation between those from deprived backgrounds and poor academic achievement."

So punishing Schools financially in poorer areas for poor results is their goal? Is that the suggestion? Is it the education systems fault for the poorer results in those sections of society or a cultural mindset amongst them that education isn't important?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"All it will do is keep the poor uneducated. If they can't afford resits, then they won't be going to uni. Nice! If I had a suspicious mind, I might think that was the end result they want.

Why is this anything to do with the poor? It's about educational aptitude,teaching practices and personal responsibility.

I think there's a a debilitating sense of entitlement coupled with minimal effort in sectors of our society which are the root cause of many of our problems.

Its everything to do with the poor, research has always shown a direct correlation between those from deprived backgrounds and poor academic achievement.

So punishing Schools financially in poorer areas for poor results is their goal? Is that the suggestion? Is it the education systems fault for the poorer results in those sections of society or a cultural mindset amongst them that education isn't important? "

No I don't know their goal do I?! If I had to guess I would say they they are aiming to make schools stand on their own feet and place all responsibilities with them. These things are part of a much linger term plan that I'm not going to even try to guess at.

The question is more why does that cultural mindset exist? and is that always present?

Our curriculum needs an overhaul and I don't place that with schools or the public that sits with goverment...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You may find filands education system an interesting read

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Learning should be life long. Unfortunately, so many get put off learning via education that many never get to explore their potential, be it academic or otherwise.

Apportioning blame is all just smoke and mirrors to keep us arguing and stop us looking at the real issues.

If you're at all interested, look up Sir Ken Robinson.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Learning should be life long. Unfortunately, so many get put off learning via education that many never get to explore their potential, be it academic or otherwise.

Apportioning blame is all just smoke and mirrors to keep us arguing and stop us looking at the real issues.

If you're at all interested, look up Sir Ken Robinson."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"All it will do is keep the poor uneducated. If they can't afford resits, then they won't be going to uni. Nice! If I had a suspicious mind, I might think that was the end result they want.

Why is this anything to do with the poor? It's about educational aptitude,teaching practices and personal responsibility.

I think there's a a debilitating sense of entitlement coupled with minimal effort in sectors of our society which are the root cause of many of our problems."

Of course it's to do with the poor. By being poor, you will have any second chance, denied. Again the wealthiest will benefit the most. It's nothing to do with a sense of entitlement. It's about being FAIR. Hardly a level playing field if you can't afford a resit is it?

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"All it will do is keep the poor uneducated. If they can't afford resits, then they won't be going to uni. Nice! If I had a suspicious mind, I might think that was the end result they want.

Why is this anything to do with the poor? It's about educational aptitude,teaching practices and personal responsibility.

I think there's a a debilitating sense of entitlement coupled with minimal effort in sectors of our society which are the root cause of many of our problems.

Of course it's to do with the poor. By being poor, you will have any second chance, denied. Again the wealthiest will benefit the most. It's nothing to do with a sense of entitlement. It's about being FAIR. Hardly a level playing field if you can't afford a resit is it?"

It's a little more complex than that. If it can be evidenced from course work and behavioural reports that the student constantly under achieved through their own doing,why should the school/tax payer be penalised? There are plenty of people from less privelaged backgrounds who do well and don't claim to be victims everytime they fail at something?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"All it will do is keep the poor uneducated. If they can't afford resits, then they won't be going to uni. Nice! If I had a suspicious mind, I might think that was the end result they want.

Why is this anything to do with the poor? It's about educational aptitude,teaching practices and personal responsibility.

I think there's a a debilitating sense of entitlement coupled with minimal effort in sectors of our society which are the root cause of many of our problems.

Of course it's to do with the poor. By being poor, you will have any second chance, denied. Again the wealthiest will benefit the most. It's nothing to do with a sense of entitlement. It's about being FAIR. Hardly a level playing field if you can't afford a resit is it?

It's a little more complex than that. If it can be evidenced from course work and behavioural reports that the student constantly under achieved through their own doing,why should the school/tax payer be penalised? There are plenty of people from less privelaged backgrounds who do well and don't claim to be victims everytime they fail at something? "

No! It is that simple. The upshot is, a rich kid gets to take a resit if he needs it. The poor kid doesn't. They are kept "in their place".

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

You didn't answer the question about the pupil who doesn't make any effort regardless of background?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"You didn't answer the question about the pupil who doesn't make any effort regardless of background? "

Do you mean a student who is priveliged but who doesn't make the effort?? There in the minority so that's hardly the issue? Even if they aren't this isn't punishing individuals it's punishing whole schools so not really relevant.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"You didn't answer the question about the pupil who doesn't make any effort regardless of background?

Do you mean a student who is priveliged but who doesn't make the effort?? There in the minority so that's hardly the issue? Even if they aren't this isn't punishing individuals it's punishing whole schools so not really relevant."

No the pupil from a poorer background. The previous poster highlighted the correlation between poor performance and poor background.

They suggested better off families will get a second chance and poor families wont. I don't begrudge anyone a second chance....but should schools pay for it if it's obviously the pupils fault? Evidenced in yearly reports obviously.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

And without wishing to go off track,if you live in the UK you probably are amongst the too 10% of the world's wealthy...yes even at the bottom of the ladder.

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!


"You didn't answer the question about the pupil who doesn't make any effort regardless of background?

Do you mean a student who is priveliged but who doesn't make the effort?? There in the minority so that's hardly the issue? Even if they aren't this isn't punishing individuals it's punishing whole schools so not really relevant.

No the pupil from a poorer background.

The previous poster highlighted the

correlation between poor performance

and poor background.

They suggested better off families will

get a second chance and poor families

wont. I don't begrudge anyone a

second chance....but should schools

pay for it if it's obviously the pupils

fault? Evidenced in yearly reports

obviously. "

Your point of view is simplistic. Poverty can lead to lack of brain development, no breakfast can lead to lack of concentration, lack of in school opportunities. It's Maslows pyramid of need. It's hardly ever 'the pupils fault' it's more a result of their background and influences. Everyone is born equal, some are born more equal than others. It's not that the kids don't want to achieve, it's because they are unable to. Even the 'not wanting to' is a byproduct of their own nature/nurture.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 25/08/15 13:42:20]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"You didn't answer the question about the pupil who doesn't make any effort regardless of background?

Do you mean a student who is priveliged but who doesn't make the effort?? There in the minority so that's hardly the issue? Even if they aren't this isn't punishing individuals it's punishing whole schools so not really relevant.

No the pupil from a poorer background. The previous poster highlighted the correlation between poor performance and poor background.

They suggested better off families will get a second chance and poor families wont. I don't begrudge anyone a second chance....but should schools pay for it if it's obviously the pupils fault? Evidenced in yearly reports obviously. "

I see your point but who's responsibility I'd it to teach children the value of education?

Its far more complex than that

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It didn't even occur to me to crack out maslows hierarchy of needs but your right it illustrates this point perfectly!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

you cant get out what isnt there and surely you cannot penalise the students - i think if its proven its because of poor teaching they should be allowed to retake a subject - but until i know all the details its difficult to say

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"You didn't answer the question about the pupil who doesn't make any effort regardless of background?

Do you mean a student who is priveliged but who doesn't make the effort?? There in the minority so that's hardly the issue? Even if they aren't this isn't punishing individuals it's punishing whole schools so not really relevant.

No the pupil from a poorer background. The previous poster highlighted the correlation between poor performance and poor background.

They suggested better off families will get a second chance and poor families wont. I don't begrudge anyone a second chance....but should schools pay for it if it's obviously the pupils fault? Evidenced in yearly reports obviously. "

Is it their fault though? A yearly report doesn't take into account a complete disaster in an exam. One of the reasons coursework began to have more impact on a final grade was because lots of kids fuck up their exam paper through sheer panic. You can't investigate each individuals case, to save a few quid. It's not viable, economically or physically.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's not always the pupils fault. I was really bored in most lessons at school, the subjects were forced on me and many i was not interested in.

I think maths and english are fairly important, but you only need to learn it to a level of being able to manage your own life.

Bit sick of everyone being charged money to meet others expectations. If they fail their exams and want to take them again then let them, don't do the exact same method of teaching though as it obviously didn't work last time. And definitely do not financially penalise them for wanting to better themselves, or even worse for being forced to attain someone elses standards.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Remember that scene in Goodfellas?

I haven't made enough profit!

Tough shit, pay me!

We had a flood!

Tough shit pay me!

I want to get out of the poverty TRAP(the clues in the word trap!) by getting into higher education.

Tough shit, pay me!

Every obstacle that can be put in place is being put in place slowly. Tuition fees, were just the start of it. It pays the rich to keep an underclass just where they want them.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Remember that scene in Goodfellas?

I haven't made enough profit!

Tough shit, pay me!

We had a flood!

Tough shit pay me!

I want to get out of the poverty TRAP(the clues in the word trap!) by getting into higher education.

Tough shit, pay me!

Every obstacle that can be put in place is being put in place slowly. Tuition fees, were just the start of it. It pays the rich to keep an underclass just where they want them."

Pretty sure this is why they want to censor the internet, so that we cannot educate each other for free.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Let's face it, if someone wants to do a resit, its because they want to succeed. They're not doing it because they like exams. Making them pay is going to put people off persevering with something that could have a long term payoff. It's barefaced moneymaking by a government that knows were in the shit and it can still try to get a fee quid out of us. Best not to tap a few more quid off the rich in case they all run away and take their money with them. Like they keep saying they will. But never do.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yeah, and half of them already aren't paying into the country anyway so they might as well fuck off.

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