FabSwingers.com forum: Why no god?

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Lol while we're on a roll with all these god-themed threads...

I appreciate that atheists don't believe in a god for a number of reasons... but what one reason, above all others, do you class as the most important to you?

I am interested in reasons which, if they turned out to be wrong... you would reconsider Theism.

This is a thread for atheists to clarify their views. Theists... please resist the urge to argue back, I promise I won't

They don't have to be clever reasons... I'm just looking for your honest answer. Oh, and I know I'm one to talk

... but please don't write a massive essay listing all the reasons lol. I'd like to know which feels the most important

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

that could be interesting

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

There is no absolute proof of any such being existing. I feel that there is nothing whatsoever makes me believe one is real or exists.

I'm open to the possibility that there are things we cannot physically perceive that do exist but many parts of religion definitely don't make sense to me unless it has a specific agenda and so i choose not to follow any.

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By *irtyGirlWoman
over a year ago

Edinburgh

I believe in stuff that's real.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What did people identify and name God in the first place?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"What did people identify and name God in the first place?"

well according to the Theory they didn't... God did

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By *icked weaselCouple
over a year ago

Near Edinburgh..

GOD.. is that Not " Gold Oil Drugs " !!!

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

I think you have misunderstood Atheism, OP.

Its a "burden of proof" deal.

There is no tangible evidence that a god exists, ergo I chose to disregard then notion and live my life accordingly.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Ok so evidence is proving a big hitter. Tell me then... what evidence would you classify as being proof that a god exists? What is it you're looking for which is missing?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Lol, this is like proving aliens exist. Someone could tell you they're an alien but would you believe them?

I think because there's never been proof of aliens for me then i wouldn't know if i would believe in one if i saw it. Same for God.

I think people aren't that open to new ideas really, and so mostly live in a world where what we perceive is real, we can sort of empathise with those who've had our experiences but we can never know what's real for anyone but ourselves and this gives us some structure for what we see as real.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Two reasons: (i) the number of gods that that have existed since the dawn of time, those based on the Abrahamic doctrines are new comers; (ii) the existence of child abuse and rape since time immemorial.

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

"Ok so evidence is proving a big hitter. Tell me then... what evidence would you classify as being proof that a god exists? What is it you're looking for which is missing?"

Anything tangible or measurable would be a good start.

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By *est Wales WifeCouple
over a year ago

Near Carmarthen

It is really very simple.

Everyone is born atheist. The belief in any particular deity is therefore just social conditioning.

If you claim to believe in a deity I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Ok so evidence is proving a big hitter. Tell me then... what evidence would you classify as being proof that a god exists? What is it you're looking for which is missing?

Anything tangible or measurable would be a good start."

A tangible and measurable what? Are you expecting God to be a creature of some sort? Like Affectionate said. Or are you waiting for a really weird miracle?

If evidence is missing you must have some comprehension of what that is. I mean... if you don't that's cool... but I just assumed you would

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By *irtyGirlWoman
over a year ago

Edinburgh

"Ok so evidence is proving a big hitter. Tell me then... what evidence would you classify as being proof that a god exists? What is it you're looking for which is missing?"

That's exactly it though, I'm not looking.

I don't believe in God. I don't believe in the bible.

I think I'm a decent person, I know right from wrong, I'm kind to others and I don't need a book to tell me how I should/should not behave.

Religion would not make me a better person. My parents made me a good person. I don't need to go higher.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Why don't I believe in god??? Bone cancer in children??? a world full of so much injustice and pain couldn't have been created by a god, a devil maybe but definitely no god

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By *otsoSnowWhiteWoman
over a year ago

My Ice Castle! South Wales

"Ok so evidence is proving a big hitter. Tell me then... what evidence would you classify as being proof that a god exists? What is it you're looking for which is missing?

That's exactly it though, I'm not looking.

I don't believe in God. I don't believe in the bible.

I think I'm a decent person, I know right from wrong, I'm kind to others and I don't need a book to tell me how I should/should not behave.

Religion would not make me a better person. My parents made me a good person. I don't need to go higher.

Couldn't of put it better

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"It is really very simple.

Everyone is born atheist. The belief in any particular deity is therefore just social conditioning.

Ok... so if I didn't dismiss everyone else's gods you would accept there might be a god? Me tinks you might have a better reason than that lol

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

"Ok so evidence is proving a big hitter. Tell me then... what evidence would you classify as being proof that a god exists? What is it you're looking for which is missing?

Anything tangible or measurable would be a good start.

A tangible and measurable what? Are you expecting God to be a creature of some sort? Like Affectionate said. Or are you waiting for a really weird miracle?

If evidence is missing you must have some comprehension of what that is. I mean... if you don't that's cool... but I just assumed you would

A tangible or measurable anything.

There won't be, though. Faith relies on a "leap" therof - i.e. to suspend your disbelief, which I won't do.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This thread is going to finish worse then it started....

No one on this earth can prove anything so why debate about it?

If it helps believers, let them believe.... It's theirs path of happiness in their eyes.

If people don't believe then they'll find their happiness in something else.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

An which god are we talking about? Zeus? Buddha? Rai? Thor? Odin?

Let me ask the people who believe in god, do you believe in these gods?

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Ok so evidence is proving a big hitter. Tell me then... what evidence would you classify as being proof that a god exists? What is it you're looking for which is missing?

That's exactly it though, I'm not looking.

I don't believe in God. I don't believe in the bible.

I think I'm a decent person, I know right from wrong, I'm kind to others and I don't need a book to tell me how I should/should not behave.

Religion would not make me a better person. My parents made me a good person. I don't need to go higher.

These are all good points. Just a hypothetical for you though. If you found out that you were adopted and that your real parents had been trying to find you all these years... would you be equally disinterested in them as you are in the existence of your creator? Not trying to proselytize or be critical of you... just trying to see if these conceptual dots connect in your mind or not

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By *yrdwomanWoman
over a year ago

Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum

Gods were created by man. Animals don't worship, don't tell each other stories, so why do we?

I just realised one day that there was no reason to believe that the universe was created by a supreme being. Things just are.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Ok so evidence is proving a big hitter. Tell me then... what evidence would you classify as being proof that a god exists? What is it you're looking for which is missing?

That's exactly it though, I'm not looking.

I don't believe in God. I don't believe in the bible.

I think I'm a decent person, I know right from wrong, I'm kind to others and I don't need a book to tell me how I should/should not behave.

Religion would not make me a better person. My parents made me a good person. I don't need to go higher.

The parents would be the creator no thing else its called evolution bro

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By *est Wales WifeCouple
over a year ago

Near Carmarthen

"Me tinks you might have a better reason than that lol

It's pretty simple; I don't believe in fairies, pink unicorns or gods in the sky or anywhere else) because they don't exist. End of story as far as I'm concerned.

The point above is that if you choose just to believe in one god out of the many thousands you are almost atheist as me.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Aliens , and gods or God do not exist

If they did exist , they would have wiped our violent race out years ago.

seriously would you want earth as your neighbour

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I stopped believing in fairy tales when I was a child.

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

"Ok so evidence is proving a big hitter. Tell me then... what evidence would you classify as being proof that a god exists? What is it you're looking for which is missing?

That's exactly it though, I'm not looking.

I don't believe in God. I don't believe in the bible.

I think I'm a decent person, I know right from wrong, I'm kind to others and I don't need a book to tell me how I should/should not behave.

Religion would not make me a better person. My parents made me a good person. I don't need to go higher.

To be fair, thats one of the shittest analogies I have read in some time.

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By *erbyDalesCplCouple
over a year ago

Derbyshire

"I appreciate that atheists don't believe in a god for a number of reasons... but what one reason, above all others, do you class as the most important to you?

I don't believe in religion simply because I don't feel my life needs it.

I accept others find it important and that their faith gives them strength and succour in times of hardship, but personally I am fine without it.

Why is atheist's lack of faith so important to you?

Mr ddc

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By *est Wales WifeCouple
over a year ago

Near Carmarthen

"Just a hypothetical for you though. If you found out that you were adopted and that your real parents had been trying to find you all these years... would you be equally disinterested in them as you are in the existence of your creator? "

Note the wording 'REAL' i.e, parents who actually exist whereas on the other hand there is no such thing as a creator.

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By *est Wales WifeCouple
over a year ago

Near Carmarthen

To be fair, thats one of the shittest analogies I have read in some time. "

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Ok so evidence is proving a big hitter. Tell me then... what evidence would you classify as being proof that a god exists? What is it you're looking for which is missing?

Anything tangible or measurable would be a good start.

A tangible and measurable what? Are you expecting God to be a creature of some sort? Like Affectionate said. Or are you waiting for a really weird miracle?

If evidence is missing you must have some comprehension of what that is. I mean... if you don't that's cool... but I just assumed you would

A tangible or measurable anything.

There won't be, though. Faith relies on a "leap" therof - i.e. to suspend your disbelief, which I won't do. "

Surely if a god exists it must... exist... and that means science should theoretically be able to present some proof of it. But it seems like you really have no idea of what that proof would be. How do you know that proof hasn't already been found but no one recognised it? I mean... if you don't know what you're looking for it is a possibility right?

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By *irtyGirlWoman
over a year ago

Edinburgh

"Ok so evidence is proving a big hitter. Tell me then... what evidence would you classify as being proof that a god exists? What is it you're looking for which is missing?

That's exactly it though, I'm not looking.

I don't believe in God. I don't believe in the bible.

I think I'm a decent person, I know right from wrong, I'm kind to others and I don't need a book to tell me how I should/should not behave.

Religion would not make me a better person. My parents made me a good person. I don't need to go higher.

That's just biology. The person who gave birth to me (my Mum) and the sperm which helped (belonging to my Dad) are my creators. If they told me that I was adopted then I would want to meet my biological parents but the two people who brought me up, my parents, will always be my Mum & Dad. They did a fine job (even if I do say so myself)

so I don't feel the need to look for or believe in something else.

I can't help that you may choose to believe that's not the case. It's your choice. My dots are perfectly fine in my world, I will continue to believe that your parents were your creators as mine created me cause that's exactly what happened.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Why do we say 'oh my god' when we have a close shave with death?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We all have a need to believe in something, whether it's some form of religion or ourselves.

I choose to believe in life and don't think too much about the religious version of how that life came about.

Science says microbes, Religion says god, I'm here, your here, that's all that counts!

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By *erbyDalesCplCouple
over a year ago

Derbyshire

The point above is that if you choose just to believe in one god out of the many thousands you are almost atheist as me."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

we look at the stars to find meaning..we are the product of what is out there..to some its finding god,a creator,an ancestor and to some its just science.

even science knows there is a bit more to everyday reality, therefore it cannot discount some of the religious aspects that go hand in hand with many peoples lives.

if anything is true about many a religious text..its most likely been bastardized to suit someones self serving purpose.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

God, as a concept, is plausible but I think that the understanding of the concept is completely implausible.

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By *est Wales WifeCouple
over a year ago

Near Carmarthen

Surely if a god exists it must... exist... and that means science should theoretically be able to present some proof of it."

I refer you to Russell's teapot

Many orthodox people speak as though it were the business of sceptics to disprove received dogmas rather than of dogmatists to prove them. This is, of course, a mistake. If I were to suggest that between the Earth and Mars there is a china teapot revolving about the sun in an elliptical orbit, nobody would be able to disprove my assertion provided I were careful to add that the teapot is too small to be revealed even by our most powerful telescopes. But if I were to go on to say that, since my assertion cannot be disproved, it is intolerable presumption on the part of human reason to doubt it, I should rightly be thought to be talking nonsense. If, however, the existence of such a teapot were affirmed in ancient books, taught as the sacred truth every Sunday, and instilled into the minds of children at school, hesitation to believe in its existence would become a mark of eccentricity and entitle the doubter to the attentions of the psychiatrist in an enlightened age or of the Inquisitor in an earlier time.

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By *dsindyTV/TS
over a year ago

East Lancashire

Surely if a god exists it must... exist... and that means science should theoretically be able to present some proof of it.

I refer you to Russell's teapot

That is a s confusing as Schroedingers Cat

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By *oobsandballsMan
over a year ago

st andrews

There is no proof that such a thing exists.

Plenty of proof of evolution though

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

You appear to not to even be aware of what 'proof' entails.

If you cannot disprove a theory, then you accept it.

As I said - it's a "burden of proof" thing.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Interesting to see some people don't mentally connect the dots of my hypothetical about real parents. Presumably you are all aware that theists claim that god created us. I know you don't believe in such a story... and that's why you disagree with it. But my curiosity was to see if someone who's main reason for not believing was disinterest also understood what theists claim is at issue.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I am not a man of faith. That's the simple reason. Watch zeitgeist for a more detailed reason. I know it has its critics but I think it nails it. Without wishing to offend anyone the idea of a magic being just creating everything is complete bollocks in my opinion.

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

"Interesting to see some people don't mentally connect the dots of my hypothetical about real parents. Presumably you are all aware that theists claim that god created us. I know you don't believe in such a story... and that's why you disagree with it. But my curiosity was to see if someone who's main reason for not believing was disinterest also understood what theists claim is at issue."

No, the dots were connected, (it was fairly obvious what you were saying, you aren't a genius) its just that it the analogy was utterly flawed on so many levels. Others have felt sorry enough for you that they have started to point out what those reasons actually were.

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By *erbyDalesCplCouple
over a year ago

Derbyshire

"Presumably you are all aware that theists claim that god created us."

Not necessarily. Not all faiths believe God created the physical world.

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By *est Wales WifeCouple
over a year ago

Near Carmarthen

" But my curiosity was to see if someone who's main reason for not believing was disinterest also understood what theists claim is at issue."

As far as I can see it is you not joining the dots. As an atheist it is simple god doesn't exist, as I pointed out it is the de facto position of new born babies.

Thus there is nothing to understand about theists other than the fact that they find comfort in their delusions (for a whole variety of reasons). If they find comfort in their particular imaginary friend; it's not a problem. It is a problem when it is presented to vulnerable young minds as a factual truth.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Surely if a god exists it must... exist... and that means science should theoretically be able to present some proof of it.

I refer you to Russell's teapot

I think you're confusing me. I'm not asking you to prove god's non-existance. I'm asking you what you would count as proof of god's existence. Bertrands answer to his teapot scenario is simple... if we found a teapot floating in space that would class as proof of a teapot floating in space.

What's maddening about this is that I'm not even trying to make a point. I'm actually trying to decipher what it is you guys are looking for... but it seems none of you even know what evidence of god would look like. I mean its like saying you don't believe in marzipan. You wouldn't even know it if you saw it

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By *est Wales WifeCouple
over a year ago

Near Carmarthen

"Without wishing to offend anyone the idea of a magic being just creating everything is complete bollocks in my opinion."

Couldn't have said it better

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Presumably you are all aware that theists claim that god created us.

Not necessarily. Not all faiths believe God created the physical world.

I'd be fascinated to know which

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By *usterMan
over a year ago

worthing

The only meaning of 'God' is that of being the sentient origin and sustainer of everything. Without these properties it does not exist. The continual recycling of matter and energy indicates that it is energy that exhibits these features, rather than a sentient being. Hence there is no god

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Some people's reasons seem to be "because its a load of bollocks" which, as I'm sure we're all aware, isn't a reason why you think its all a load of bollocks its merely an acknowledgment that you believe its a load of bollocks. Try and answer the question guys

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By *hesouthpark182Man
over a year ago

Perth

You'll be trying to tell us there were no dinosaurs next...

There are, I've seen Jurassic Park...

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By *est Wales WifeCouple
over a year ago

Near Carmarthen

I'd be fascinated to know which"

One general doctrine agreed upon by Buddhists is: "We do not believe that this world is created and ruled by a God." However, disbelief in a creator God does not mean that Buddhism is atheistic.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

You appear to not to even be aware of what 'proof' entails.

If you cannot disprove a theory, then you accept it.

As I said - it's a "burden of proof" thing.

If you can neither prove nor disprove a theory then it is unfalsifiable and unscientific. For your own stance to be scientific you need to give me an example of how I might be able to falsify you.

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

"Some people's reasons seem to be "because its a load of bollocks" which, as I'm sure we're all aware, isn't a reason why you think its all a load of bollocks its merely an acknowledgment that you believe its a load of bollocks. Try and answer the question guys

Burden of proof.

It's on the person making any particular assertion to provide reasons why their assertion is the truth, not the other way round.

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

You appear to not to even be aware of what 'proof' entails.

If you cannot disprove a theory, then you accept it.

As I said - it's a "burden of proof" thing.

If you can neither prove nor disprove a theory then it is unfalsifiable and unscientific. For your own stance to be scientific you need to give me an example of how I might be able to falsify you."

No, I really don't.

again "burden of proof".

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By *irtyGirlWoman
over a year ago

Edinburgh

I'm curious as to why it bothers you that we don't believe? You asked a question and I answered it, yet you're not satisfied by that.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

I'd be fascinated to know which

One general doctrine agreed upon by Buddhists is: "We do not believe that this world is created and ruled by a God." However, disbelief in a creator God does not mean that Buddhism is atheistic."

I am aware of no gods other than oneself in Buddhism.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Quite simply put, if I can see it or I can touch it then I believe it's real. In the case of God (whatever or whoever you may believe he/she/it is) neither of those things apply so I don't believe.

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By *erbyDalesCplCouple
over a year ago

Derbyshire

"Presumably you are all aware that theists claim that god created us.

Not necessarily. Not all faiths believe God created the physical world.

I'd be fascinated to know which"

Gnostics, Cathars to name just two. Most were persecuted out of existance by the early Catholic church.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

I'm curious as to why it bothers you that we don't believe? You asked a question and I answered it, yet you're not satisfied by that.

Oh don't get me wrong Dirty. It doesn't bother me at all. Live and let live. I'm merely trying to get at people's reasons. Its intriguing. I was satisfied by your answer. It's other people who are merely writing that its bollocks without explain why its bollocks that I was talking about.

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By *erbyDalesCplCouple
over a year ago

Derbyshire

" I'm curious as to why it bothers you that we don't believe? You asked a question and I answered it, yet you're not satisfied by that.

That's what I asked too, but I didn't get an answer either.

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By *irtyGirlWoman
over a year ago

Edinburgh

I'm curious as to why it bothers you that we don't believe? You asked a question and I answered it, yet you're not satisfied by that.

Excellent. I'm happy that I answered your question.

Now I shall retire back to my usual 'avoid politics and religion' threads.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Presumably you are all aware that theists claim that god created us.

Not necessarily. Not all faiths believe God created the physical world.

I'd be fascinated to know which

Gnostics, Cathars to name just two. Most were persecuted out of existance by the early Catholic church.

My understanding was that both these were dualist, is that right? This involves one creator god who creates everything and another that destroys everything. Is that right? If so there is still a creator concept in there.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Quite simply put, if I can see it or I can touch it then I believe it's real. In the case of God (whatever or whoever you may believe he/she/it is) neither of those things apply so I don't believe."

This

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By *usterMan
over a year ago

worthing

I'm curious as to why it bothers you that we don't believe? You asked a question and I answered it, yet you're not satisfied by that.

Oh - I misunderstood. Its Bollocks that you're talking about. Now they are gods I can relate to.

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By *est Wales WifeCouple
over a year ago

Near Carmarthen

I am aware of no gods other than oneself in Buddhism."

There are plenty, Google if you want to check.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

You appear to not to even be aware of what 'proof' entails.

If you cannot disprove a theory, then you accept it.

As I said - it's a "burden of proof" thing.

If you can neither prove nor disprove a theory then it is unfalsifiable and unscientific. For your own stance to be scientific you need to give me an example of how I might be able to falsify you.

No, I really don't.

again "burden of proof". "

lol Jimi you've got your burden of proof argument upside down. If I argue that a time machine exists somewhere. I have the burden of proof to prove it does. It's not on your shoulders to prove it doesn't. However, if I then produce a fully working time machine... that means that amazingly I have proven it exists.

The burden is on my sholders... but I want to know what that burden is... what have I got to do? What have I got to present you with?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

My child's death killed any belief i had and my grandparents getting cancer all the horrible shitty things that happen what God would allow that?? all religion is a work of fiction in my eyes and nothing anybody can say would change my mind

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By *est Wales WifeCouple
over a year ago

Near Carmarthen

Jainism also believes the universe is eternal and has no need for a creator deity.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The burden is on my sholders... but I want to know what that burden is... what have I got to do? What have I got to present you with?"

A big voice in the sky?

A modern day set on unarguable miracles

Proof that any of that shit actually happened??

Sorry if that sounds rude. I'm happy for anyone who has faith I hope it guides you and gives you purpose.

I don't need it, I'm happy as a wandering soul making my own way.

To me religions are at best moralistic stories told to make you live life in a good way

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

The summary so far...

The overwhelming number of people simply don't believe in it because its bollocks, which isn't a reason but I'll take that as meaning they have an instinct for it being wrong

A few people have said evidence is missing which I have the burden of proof to present but I haven't managed to figure out what it is I'm supposed to present yet... although I think Affectionate is looking for some kind of creature perhaps.

I think we've had one "problem of evil" which is interesting as I thought that'd rank higher

A couple of "I couldn't care less" agnostic types

A couple say there are too many different types of gods or they don't even know what a god is and it all looks like fiction

I liked hants impossible to understand god so why bother answer

And some who simply dislike the Faiths so badly that they don't believe in god either.

Is that a fair overview? I'm really not trying to belittle or counter anyone's views... I'm just curious to see what they are. Thanks

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"My child's death killed any belief i had and my grandparents getting cancer all the horrible shitty things that happen what God would allow that?? all religion is a work of fiction in my eyes and nothing anybody can say would change my mind "

I'm so sorry to hear about your terrible losses. I completely sympathise with your reasons here

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Jainism also believes the universe is eternal and has no need for a creator deity."

Jainism is atheist. It has no gods.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Lol while we're on a roll with all these god-themed threads...

I appreciate that atheists don't believe in a god for a number of reasons... but what one reason, above all others, do you class as the most important to you?

I am interested in reasons which, if they turned out to be wrong... you would reconsider Theism.

This is a thread for atheists to clarify their views. Theists... please resist the urge to argue back, I promise I won't

They don't have to be clever reasons... I'm just looking for your honest answer. Oh, and I know I'm one to talk

... but please don't write a massive essay listing all the reasons lol. I'd like to know which feels the most important

To give an honest answer, It would help me immeasurably if you could define god

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

The burden is on my sholders... but I want to know what that burden is... what have I got to do? What have I got to present you with?

A big voice in the sky?

A modern day set on unarguable miracles

Proof that any of that shit actually happened??

Sorry if that sounds rude. I'm happy for anyone who has faith I hope it guides you and gives you purpose.

I don't need it, I'm happy as a wandering soul making my own way.

To me religions are at best moralistic stories told to make you live life in a good way"

Yippeee

I'll take your big voice from the sky thanks. As for the proof of history... I'd say that could be faked.. so you're really looking for an audible voice that suddenly blurts out some sentence and everyone around you hears it. Sound about right? Hmm I'm already thinking megaphone here lol

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By *erbyDalesCplCouple
over a year ago

Derbyshire

"Presumably you are all aware that theists claim that god created us.

Not necessarily. Not all faiths believe God created the physical world.

I'd be fascinated to know which

Gnostics, Cathars to name just two. Most were persecuted out of existance by the early Catholic church.

No,

They generally believe that the world is so full of evil that it couldn't have been created by a benevolent god, hence.it was created by the devil.

In effect the world is our hell, and we can only escape it by living a 'godly' life.

But phone now down to 3%, and wifi other side of hotel to charger, so I'll have to leave you to it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The burden is on my sholders... but I want to know what that burden is... what have I got to do? What have I got to present you with?

A big voice in the sky?

A modern day set on unarguable miracles

Proof that any of that shit actually happened??

Sorry if that sounds rude. I'm happy for anyone who has faith I hope it guides you and gives you purpose.

I don't need it, I'm happy as a wandering soul making my own way.

To me religions are at best moralistic stories told to make you live life in a good way

Yippeee

Haha yes I would be that guilable...

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Lol while we're on a roll with all these god-themed threads...

I appreciate that atheists don't believe in a god for a number of reasons... but what one reason, above all others, do you class as the most important to you?

I am interested in reasons which, if they turned out to be wrong... you would reconsider Theism.

This is a thread for atheists to clarify their views. Theists... please resist the urge to argue back, I promise I won't

They don't have to be clever reasons... I'm just looking for your honest answer. Oh, and I know I'm one to talk

... but please don't write a massive essay listing all the reasons lol. I'd like to know which feels the most important

To give an honest answer, It would help me immeasurably if you could define god

Well the majority of Faiths which propose a god exists describe it as a spirit, life force, or consciousness that pervades the universe. They each have various tales they tell of anthropomorphised gods running about and doing this and that... but these are really just story telling devices. Judeo-Christians "Holy Spirit", Sikhs "All-pervasive Spirit", Hindus "All-pervading Spirit", Shinto etc "All-pervading life force". Does that help?

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By *oachman 9CoolMan
over a year ago

derby

"Ok so evidence is proving a big hitter. Tell me then... what evidence would you classify as being proof that a god exists? What is it you're looking for which is missing?"
well If There is a heaven and hell and thats the Place decided for us later on, the Afterlife which I believe in any phantoms or spirits seen where are they, are they free or lost souls bad or good, they would be Able to tell you your only ever way of finding out while still a live on this Planet if there was a heaven or hell.

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By *hetalkingstoveMan
over a year ago

London

You define what God is and what it can do. Then I'll say what evidence would be convincing of that kind of God. Otherwise you just get into an endless back and forth about what kind of being you're even arguing about.

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

Easy!

Russel's Teapot

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell%27s_teapot

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Easy!

Russel's Teapot

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell%27s_teapot

We did that earlier... its not the right answer. You say the burden of proof is on me... but what can I possibly present which would count as that proof? I'm happy to take that burden... but I need to know what proof you require. In Russell's case it was a teapot... what is it for you?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The problem is OP your original question was not designed to obtain information but to allow you to point out in your view the errors in contributors views. Your question presupposes that there is a value in believing in a god and therefore there needs to be a good reason not to believe in god. The simple answer is that gods and the supernatural do not exist, no reason required not to believe. Do l believe in the greek gods, no because they are silly stories If you look over history at the assertions of the physical existence of god science has disproved that he exists. But theists keep looking for minor discrepencies in scientific tbeories to support the existence of god. They use poor analogies like your ones asif they were proof. Analogy are used to belp explain ideas there are not proof in themselves.

The anology you used is weak because firstly it is an artificial construct to prove a point. Secondly the facts decribed even if true i.e. that an adopted child can have blood parents who love them without the child knowing the blood parent exist, still does not prove the existence of god. It is like biblical films being used as proof of god. They don't, they are no more than scripts devised to prove a point.

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

"Easy!

Russel's Teapot

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell%27s_teapot

Fine, be like that.

"That which can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof".

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 24/08/15 23:51:25]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I am a non beleiver, we don't need to clarify really why god don't exists, its those who believes that need to be convinced he do tho exists.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Lol while we're on a roll with all these god-themed threads...

I appreciate that atheists don't believe in a god for a number of reasons... but what one reason, above all others, do you class as the most important to you?

I am interested in reasons which, if they turned out to be wrong... you would reconsider Theism.

This is a thread for atheists to clarify their views. Theists... please resist the urge to argue back, I promise I won't

They don't have to be clever reasons... I'm just looking for your honest answer. Oh, and I know I'm one to talk

... but please don't write a massive essay listing all the reasons lol. I'd like to know which feels the most important

To give an honest answer, It would help me immeasurably if you could define god

I know how they define god - I would like to understand how you personally define god.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"The problem is OP your original question was not designed to obtain information but to allow you to point out in your view the errors in contributors views. Your question presupposes that there is a value in believing in a god and therefore there needs to be a good reason not to believe in god. The simple answer is that gods and the supernatural do not exist, no reason required not to believe. Do l believe in the greek gods, no because they are silly stories If you look over history at the assertions of the physical existence of god science has disproved that he exists. But theists keep looking for minor discrepencies in scientific tbeories to support the existence of god. They use poor analogies like your ones asif they were proof. Analogy are used to belp explain ideas there are not proof in themselves.

Hey Ozzz, Thanks for posting. Just so you know... I have in no way tried to argue for a god existing. If I had the thread would've looked very different. All I was looking for was clarity on what people felt was their reason for a god not existing. Some people gave reasons which didn't need extra exploring. It was quite obvious what they were getting at. Others suggested they were looking for evidence. I merely wanted to know what evidence they wanted, not what I wanted, what they wanted. That I think was just a question of clarity... not really a point I was making. I think the thread made it apparent that most of these people don't know what that evidence would be... which is curious as it suggests a kind of circular logic at play. They're looking for evidence of something that they don't know what evidence of it would look like because they have no evidence of it. It's kinda like saying you don't believe a jijipiz exists because there is no evidence of a jijipiz... and yet not even knowing what a jijipiz is nor what evidence of it would look like. This itself, nor any of the analogies or anything I wrote on this thread are arguments for a god existing. It is simply a summary of the arguments which have been presented.

I'd say that the most sentient point that I have taken away from this thread is that most people who don't believe in God don't know what God is. This strikes me as merely an issue of education. Once people know what God is... then they will have better reasons for not believing in it

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Lol while we're on a roll with all these god-themed threads...

I appreciate that atheists don't believe in a god for a number of reasons... but what one reason, above all others, do you class as the most important to you?

I am interested in reasons which, if they turned out to be wrong... you would reconsider Theism.

This is a thread for atheists to clarify their views. Theists... please resist the urge to argue back, I promise I won't

They don't have to be clever reasons... I'm just looking for your honest answer. Oh, and I know I'm one to talk

... but please don't write a massive essay listing all the reasons lol. I'd like to know which feels the most important

To give an honest answer, It would help me immeasurably if you could define god

I know how they define god - I would like to understand how you personally define god."

The same... an All-pervasive spirit or consciousness