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lack of murder

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

I was just thinking is murder going out of fashion ?

there seemed to be a lot more years ago,Shipman,Fred West etc etc, what are your views ?

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By *irtyGirlWoman
over a year ago

Edinburgh

My views?!

Christ where do I start? Is this an actual question? Did it make sense in your head?

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

I suggest you get off FAB and read the news.

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

Murder as a fashion?

Wow. Just wow.

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By *dam_TinaCouple
over a year ago

Hampshire

Kids these days just want to sit in their rooms playing on their playstations.

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

Oh they're there somewhere... just pray it's not near you

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

it just seems to me that society is a lot safer than 60s 70s 80s eg.

The Ripper The Panther,Myra Hindley...and crime is only half what it was in the 80s...but it isnt reflected in The Media

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead


"Kids these days just want to sit in their rooms playing on their playstations.

"

all playing call of duty... so i don't think murder has gone out of fashion quite yet...

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross


"it just seems to me that society is a lot safer than 60s 70s 80s eg.

The Ripper The Panther,Myra Hindley...and crime is only half what it was in the 80s...but it isnt reflected in The Media

"

Right. So how do you know crime has halved?

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By *at69driveMan
over a year ago

Hertford


"I was just thinking is murder going out of fashion ?

there seemed to be a lot more years ago,Shipman,Fred West etc etc, what are your views ?

"
I cannot remember the exact numbers buy there are at least 800 per annum. Going out of fashion is a totally unacceptable statement to make .

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

Yet people claim to feel less safe than they did in the 60s and 70s.

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By *aneandpaulCouple
over a year ago

cleveleys

And your wanting to meet people

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"And your wanting to meet people"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Don't worry, there's plenty enough in the soaps to satisfy everyone

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don't know about you OP but I'm quite happy it's gone out of fashion.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

crime isn't even half what it was in the 80s which is when it peeked,car theft is only a tiny fraction since the days of the Ford Takeaway muggings way down etc etc

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk


"crime isn't even half what it was in the 80s which is when it peeked,car theft is only a tiny fraction since the days of the Ford Takeaway muggings way down etc etc"

What are your sources of data for this claim?

I doubt very much that crime has more than halved.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Home Office,Police records,The courts,

crime has been falling for years...all over the western world.

Is it just the way we look at the world ? have we become our parents ? everything was rosey back in the day.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What a bizarre post.

I think, as previously suggested, if you actually look at the News, you'll see that rather than being in, thankfully, isolated incidences, it's now being committed in mass numbers... bombs, wars, mad gunmen, etc.

I hardly feel we can say can say we live in a safer world??

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Crime in England and Wales falls to new record low

By Dominic Casciani

Home affairs correspondent, BBC News

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

War 52 million people died in ww2

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk


"Crime in England and Wales falls to new record low

By Dominic Casciani

Home affairs correspondent, BBC News

"

That doesn't say anything about crime being more than halved.

It also states that the type of crimes that are being committed is changing.

"The latest figures also appear to underline a developing shift in crime away from more visible and publicly obvious offences, such as robbery, to those that are more difficult to identify."

So a lot of crime may not be detected.

Where are the "crime has more than halved" statistics?

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Crime has fallen by an unexpected 10% over the past year. The authoritative Crime Survey of England and Wales estimates 8m offences were committed – the lowest level since it started 32 years ago.

The fall in crime seen in the 12 months to September 2013 occurred across most types of offences, and includes a drop in the murder rate to 542 homicides recorded by the police – 11 fewer than the previous year. Overall, violent crime is down by 13%, according to the survey.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I was just thinking is murder going out of fashion ?

there seemed to be a lot more years ago,Shipman,Fred West etc etc, what are your views ?

"

The media don't always report many murders, the ones you mention are particularly newsworthy.

I think you are possibly confusing what you hear about in the news with what is happening in the world

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross


"Crime has fallen by an unexpected 10% over the past year. The authoritative Crime Survey of England and Wales estimates 8m offences were committed – the lowest level since it started 32 years ago.

The fall in crime seen in the 12 months to September 2013 occurred across most types of offences, and includes a drop in the murder rate to 542 homicides recorded by the police – 11 fewer than the previous year. Overall, violent crime is down by 13%, according to the survey.

"

No.

People don't report them.

Re defining crimes helps disguise numbers too.

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk


"War 52 million people died in ww2"

How many have died from war in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Syria, Africa, Libya, Israel, Palestine etc etc in the same time period as WW2?

War seems just as "fashionable" now.

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk


"Crime has fallen by an unexpected 10% over the past year. The authoritative Crime Survey of England and Wales estimates 8m offences were committed – the lowest level since it started 32 years ago.

The fall in crime seen in the 12 months to September 2013 occurred across most types of offences, and includes a drop in the murder rate to 542 homicides recorded by the police – 11 fewer than the previous year. Overall, violent crime is down by 13%, according to the survey.

"

That is not "more than halved" and does not take into account that there are growing newer forms of crime, much of which is not detected.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

true war....and crime...and the poor lol are always with us.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

I am interested in the Psychology is it the way we view crime/murder ?

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By *rinking-in-laCouple
over a year ago

Bristol


"I was just thinking is murder going out of fashion ?

there seemed to be a lot more years ago,Shipman,Fred West etc etc, what are your views ?

I cannot remember the exact numbers buy there are at least 800 per annum. Going out of fashion is a totally unacceptable statement to make . "

Oh behave. Why the reactionary nonsense?

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By *icky999Man
over a year ago

warrington

its gettin harder to be prolific these days. cctv everywhere, trackers in phones. louis theroux in your wardrobe.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I am interested in the Psychology is it the way we view crime/murder ?"
.

I suspect that violent crime reduction may have been affected by removing lead from the environment, specifically car fumes!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Tch, oh for the old days when psychopathic mass murderers were all the rage. I'm getting dewy eyed just thinking about it

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By *rinking-in-laCouple
over a year ago

Bristol


"What a bizarre post.

I think, as previously suggested, if you actually look at the News, you'll see that rather than being in, thankfully, isolated incidences, it's now being committed in mass numbers... bombs, wars, mad gunmen, etc.

I hardly feel we can say can say we live in a safer world?? "

Look at any official figures. Crime had dropped and serious crime has really dropped.

Reporting of crime has skyrocketed and as such those who only get their facts from what is written as an article in the papers/Internet are under the illusion that crime has risen.

Reporting has gone up because we pay for articles about crime no one pays for articles saying all is well and it is all actually quite good.

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By *rinking-in-laCouple
over a year ago

Bristol


"Crime has fallen by an unexpected 10% over the past year. The authoritative Crime Survey of England and Wales estimates 8m offences were committed – the lowest level since it started 32 years ago.

The fall in crime seen in the 12 months to September 2013 occurred across most types of offences, and includes a drop in the murder rate to 542 homicides recorded by the police – 11 fewer than the previous year. Overall, violent crime is down by 13%, according to the survey.

No.

People don't report them.

Re defining crimes helps disguise numbers too. "

That's totally unsubstantiated.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"What a bizarre post.

I think, as previously suggested, if you actually look at the News, you'll see that rather than being in, thankfully, isolated incidences, it's now being committed in mass numbers... bombs, wars, mad gunmen, etc.

I hardly feel we can say can say we live in a safer world??

Look at any official figures. Crime had dropped and serious crime has really dropped.

Reporting of crime has skyrocketed and as such those who only get their facts from what is written as an article in the papers/Internet are under the illusion that crime has risen.

Reporting has gone up because we pay for articles about crime no one pays for articles saying all is well and it is all actually quite good."

So it's the JOURNALISTS who are the bad guys??

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

The Police...esp the police union has a vested interest in reporting Higher crime.

The government an interest in reporting Lower crime.

The Media an interest in over reporting crime.

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

I can see numbers of females murdering going up by 1.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Netherlands Closing 19 Prisons Due to Lack of Criminals

Read More: http://www.trueactivist.com/netherlands-closing-19-prisons-due-to-lack-of-criminals/

Sweden closes four prisons as number of inmates plummets

an international prespective.

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By *rinking-in-laCouple
over a year ago

Bristol


"What a bizarre post.

I think, as previously suggested, if you actually look at the News, you'll see that rather than being in, thankfully, isolated incidences, it's now being committed in mass numbers... bombs, wars, mad gunmen, etc.

I hardly feel we can say can say we live in a safer world??

Look at any official figures. Crime had dropped and serious crime has really dropped.

Reporting of crime has skyrocketed and as such those who only get their facts from what is written as an article in the papers/Internet are under the illusion that crime has risen.

Reporting has gone up because we pay for articles about crime no one pays for articles saying all is well and it is all actually quite good.

So it's the JOURNALISTS who are the bad guys?? "

Yes obviously. There must be one party we can blame. God forbid we just look at the facts. Let's ensure we have a blamehound.

I never pointed the finger at anyone. Just provided some information.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

During his two years at the Ministry of Justice, Mr Clarke closed six prisons in order to save money.

They included Latchmere House in London, Brockhill in the West Midlands, Ashwell in Rutland, Lancaster Castle and Wellingborough, while Morton Hall women’s prison, in Lincolnshire, was turned into an immigration detention centre.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2259916/Old-prisons-close-plans-Britains-biggest-jail-unveiled-Grayling-insists-places-lost.html#ixzz3jFmuseIJ

Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

Prisons closed to save money is no evidence of a fall in crime.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Justice Secretary will unveil plans to build Britain's biggest prison today

Five older prisons will also be closed in the money-saving move

The new prison will hold 2,000 inmates while four 'mini-jails' will also open

By JAMES SLACK FOR THE DAILY MAIL

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2259916/Old-prisons-close-plans-Britains-biggest-jail-unveiled-Grayling-insists-places-lost.html#ixzz3jFoI3IuT

Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

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By *aturelover2016Man
over a year ago

London


"I was just thinking is murder going out of fashion ?

there seemed to be a lot more years ago,Shipman,Fred West etc etc, what are your views ?

"

Ahhh the good old days when men were men and murderers were murderers!

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

why do we still think crime is at record highs despite all the evidence ?

is it an age thing ?

do the young share our views ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I can see numbers of females murdering going up by 1. "

Is that a pre-emptive confession?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Let me think oh yes a slight murder thing going on in the Middle East a British jihadist called John springs to mind as a cold blooded type

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What drugs is the OP taking?

Look on the news, kids with knives stabbing all over the place, that's just the tip of the iceberg!

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk


"why do we still think crime is at record highs despite all the evidence ?

is it an age thing ?

do the young share our views ?"

Who said it's at record highs? I don't think anyone on here has said that.

I'm questioning your claims.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"why do we still think crime is at record highs despite all the evidence ?

is it an age thing ?

do the young share our views ?"
.

Why do you think murder and violent crime is a fashion thing?

There's probably like most things a huge number of factors, fashion being of a 0.000001% influence

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

yes the jihadist murder was bad I agree

but the IRA bombs in the 70s and 80s were a lot worse

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By *rinking-in-laCouple
over a year ago

Bristol


"What drugs is the OP taking?

Look on the news, kids with knives stabbing all over the place, that's just the tip of the iceberg! "

Are you trolling?

Or are you just incapable of looking past page 1?

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

Its true that the human race on a global scale is killing a lot less people than we used to. Which I think we can all agree is a good thing right?

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

The amount of recorded crime in Greater Manchester has dropped by nearly half in the past 10 years, according to the police's latest crime statistics.

And crime also fell by nearly 10% in the past year, Greater Manchester Police (GMP) said.

Councillor Paul Murphy, local police authority chair, said: "The reality of these figures is that fewer people are becoming victims of crime."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Maybe we're that used to hearing murder that we're becoming de-sensitised as a society and therefore less aware that murders are being committed? Also the government statistics are being falsified to suggest crime is at an all time low to allow the budget on policing to be slashed, maybe people hear the positive without considering the bigger question?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"yes the jihadist murder was bad I agree

but the IRA bombs in the 70s and 80s were a lot worse"
.

I think the people who got murdered might disagree with your conclusion

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I was just thinking is murder going out of fashion ?

there seemed to be a lot more years ago,Shipman,Fred West etc etc, what are your views ?

"

Think you may have chosen the wrong word as in fashion. I don't think it is published as much as it used to be as there are many other atrocities that a precedent these days. I think the media are firmly focused on the terrorists at the present point. I also feel murder is far more common as you do hear ans read about gun crimes on a daily basis.

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By *aturelover2016Man
over a year ago

London


"yes the jihadist murder was bad I agree

but the IRA bombs in the 70s and 80s were a lot worse.

I think the people who got murdered might disagree with your conclusion"

Are we really discussing the quality of murder ring through the decades?

Mind you I can see a Chanel 5 documentary coming up!

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By *icky999Man
over a year ago

warrington


"why do we still think crime is at record highs despite all the evidence ?

is it an age thing ?

do the young share our views ?.

Why do you think murder and violent crime is a fashion thing?

There's probably like most things a huge number of factors, fashion being of a 0.000001% influence

"

arsenic killings and body snatching is so passe.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Gun and knife crime halves in Nottingham - as police turn the tide

By Nottingham Post | Posted: June 15, 2015

Read more: http://www.nottinghampost.com/Gun-knife-crime-halves-Nottingham-police-turn/story-26697402-detail/story.html#ixzz3jFsVnzfu

Follow us: @Nottingham_Post on Twitter | NottinghamPostOnline on Facebook

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By *estinysswingersCouple
over a year ago

Worsley

Murder out of fashion. What exactly is in fashion? I don't need up to date with this area.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

At the time, Glasgow was western Europe’s murder capital. A decade later, Glasgow’s murder rate has more than halved, from 39 in 2004-05 to 18 last year. Similar drops have been recorded for attempted murder, serious assault and possession of an offensive weapon.

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By *rinking-in-laCouple
over a year ago

Bristol


"yes the jihadist murder was bad I agree

but the IRA bombs in the 70s and 80s were a lot worse.

I think the people who got murdered might disagree with your conclusion"

I doubt it. They are dead.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"What drugs is the OP taking?

Look on the news, kids with knives stabbing all over the place, that's just the tip of the iceberg!

Are you trolling?

Or are you just incapable of looking past page 1?"

Obviously trolling as you put it!

Not going to read a load of rubbish about murder out of fashion, try living in the real world!

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk


"Gun and knife crime halves in Nottingham - as police turn the tide

By Nottingham Post | Posted: June 15, 2015

Read more: http://www.nottinghampost.com/Gun-knife-crime-halves-Nottingham-police-turn/story-26697402-detail/story.html#ixzz3jFsVnzfu

Follow us: @Nottingham_Post on Twitter | NottinghamPostOnline on Facebook"

That's a specific type of crime in one city. It's hardly indicative of crime overall.

The same goes for the Manchester report.

I could claim that all cars in the country are red, based on the colour of my own car, but it wouldn't be an accurate representation of all cars in the country.

Such a narrow snapshot is no evidence at all of crime trends in the UK.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"yes the jihadist murder was bad I agree

but the IRA bombs in the 70s and 80s were a lot worse.

I think the people who got murdered might disagree with your conclusion

I doubt it. They are dead. "
.

That's the point of the sentence I wrote

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By *icky999Man
over a year ago

warrington

how many qoutes and figures on this thread? no figuers comparing murder rates between present an 40 100 years ago.

op's quesrion was pretty straightforward

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

ok peeps if you accept that crime has crashed

WHY ?

and why does the public view differ ?

/

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk


"At the time, Glasgow was western Europe’s murder capital. A decade later, Glasgow’s murder rate has more than halved, from 39 in 2004-05 to 18 last year. Similar drops have been recorded for attempted murder, serious assault and possession of an offensive weapon."

Another account of one city and a narrow range of crime.

At the same time as this crime could have quadrupled in, say, Edinburgh.

Seriously OP, you're clutching at straws here.

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By *icky999Man
over a year ago

warrington


"What drugs is the OP taking?

Look on the news, kids with knives stabbing all over the place, that's just the tip of the iceberg!

Are you trolling?

Or are you just incapable of looking past page 1?

Obviously trolling as you put it!

Not going to read a load of rubbish about murder out of fashion, try living in the real world! "

get busy living or get busy dying

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk


"ok peeps if you accept that crime has crashed

WHY ?

and why does the public view differ ?

/"

FFS, more unsubstantiated claims.

Who says that public opinion differs?

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By *rinking-in-laCouple
over a year ago

Bristol


"What drugs is the OP taking?

Look on the news, kids with knives stabbing all over the place, that's just the tip of the iceberg!

Are you trolling?

Or are you just incapable of looking past page 1?

Obviously trolling as you put it!

Not going to read a load of rubbish about murder out of fashion, try living in the real world! "

As opposed to which world?

Bristol is not in Narnia.

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By *rinking-in-laCouple
over a year ago

Bristol


"At the time, Glasgow was western Europe’s murder capital. A decade later, Glasgow’s murder rate has more than halved, from 39 in 2004-05 to 18 last year. Similar drops have been recorded for attempted murder, serious assault and possession of an offensive weapon.

Another account of one city and a narrow range of crime.

At the same time as this crime could have quadrupled in, say, Edinburgh.

Seriously OP, you're clutching at straws here."

Go and look at the figures.

If the police have a vested interest in posting high figures why are they posting lower figures?

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By *rinking-in-laCouple
over a year ago

Bristol


"ok peeps if you accept that crime has crashed

WHY ?

and why does the public view differ ?

/

FFS, more unsubstantiated claims.

Who says that public opinion differs?

"

Replace "public" with "my"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"yes the jihadist murder was bad I agree

but the IRA bombs in the 70s and 80s were a lot worse"

How can you say one is worse than another? Or am I just completely confused by this whole thing?

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk


"At the time, Glasgow was western Europe’s murder capital. A decade later, Glasgow’s murder rate has more than halved, from 39 in 2004-05 to 18 last year. Similar drops have been recorded for attempted murder, serious assault and possession of an offensive weapon.

Another account of one city and a narrow range of crime.

At the same time as this crime could have quadrupled in, say, Edinburgh.

Seriously OP, you're clutching at straws here.

Go and look at the figures.

If the police have a vested interest in posting high figures why are they posting lower figures?"

Why would the police have a vested interest in publishing high figures?

Both they and the government want to be able to claim they are doing a marvellous job

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Murder out of fashion. What exactly is in fashion? I don't need up to date with this area. "

Same. Let's hope the OP isn't wanting to start a new trend

whole new meaning to fashion victims ..

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By *rinking-in-laCouple
over a year ago

Bristol


"At the time, Glasgow was western Europe’s murder capital. A decade later, Glasgow’s murder rate has more than halved, from 39 in 2004-05 to 18 last year. Similar drops have been recorded for attempted murder, serious assault and possession of an offensive weapon.

Another account of one city and a narrow range of crime.

At the same time as this crime could have quadrupled in, say, Edinburgh.

Seriously OP, you're clutching at straws here.

Go and look at the figures.

If the police have a vested interest in posting high figures why are they posting lower figures?

Why would the police have a vested interest in publishing high figures?

Both they and the government want to be able to claim they are doing a marvellous job "

Lots of crime = bigger budget.

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge


"yes the jihadist murder was bad I agree

but the IRA bombs in the 70s and 80s were a lot worse

How can you say one is worse than another? Or am I just completely confused by this whole thing? "

Perhaps he meant greater in number?

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

The Police are posting lower numbers because the Police Union cant get away with talking them up in an attempt to get more manpower,wages,etc etc

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"And your wanting to meet people"
what a worry

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By *rinking-in-laCouple
over a year ago

Bristol


"The Police are posting lower numbers because the Police Union cant get away with talking them up in an attempt to get more manpower,wages,etc etc"

I am getting a headache. Must be from the flat earth.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Mind you as a fashion statement I could murder for a return of hotpants

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"yes the jihadist murder was bad I agree

but the IRA bombs in the 70s and 80s were a lot worse

How can you say one is worse than another? Or am I just completely confused by this whole thing?

Perhaps he meant greater in number?

"
.

I think when you kill people on mass, it's a crime whether you kill 1000 or 1001 shouldn't influence your perception of the crime!

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By *inaTitzTV/TS
over a year ago

Titz Towers, North Notts

Does this mean murder is out this season? Which crime should the style conscious of us be doing this Summer? Is Piracy in?

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk


"At the time, Glasgow was western Europe’s murder capital. A decade later, Glasgow’s murder rate has more than halved, from 39 in 2004-05 to 18 last year. Similar drops have been recorded for attempted murder, serious assault and possession of an offensive weapon.

Another account of one city and a narrow range of crime.

At the same time as this crime could have quadrupled in, say, Edinburgh.

Seriously OP, you're clutching at straws here.

Go and look at the figures.

If the police have a vested interest in posting high figures why are they posting lower figures?

Why would the police have a vested interest in publishing high figures?

Both they and the government want to be able to claim they are doing a marvellous job

Lots of crime = bigger budget."

Lots of crime = lots of criticism

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By *rinking-in-laCouple
over a year ago

Bristol


"At the time, Glasgow was western Europe’s murder capital. A decade later, Glasgow’s murder rate has more than halved, from 39 in 2004-05 to 18 last year. Similar drops have been recorded for attempted murder, serious assault and possession of an offensive weapon.

Another account of one city and a narrow range of crime.

At the same time as this crime could have quadrupled in, say, Edinburgh.

Seriously OP, you're clutching at straws here.

Go and look at the figures.

If the police have a vested interest in posting high figures why are they posting lower figures?

Why would the police have a vested interest in publishing high figures?

Both they and the government want to be able to claim they are doing a marvellous job

Lots of crime = bigger budget.

Lots of crime = lots of criticism"

Criticism is easy to handle when you have lots of cash and power.

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk


"At the time, Glasgow was western Europe’s murder capital. A decade later, Glasgow’s murder rate has more than halved, from 39 in 2004-05 to 18 last year. Similar drops have been recorded for attempted murder, serious assault and possession of an offensive weapon.

Another account of one city and a narrow range of crime.

At the same time as this crime could have quadrupled in, say, Edinburgh.

Seriously OP, you're clutching at straws here.

Go and look at the figures.

If the police have a vested interest in posting high figures why are they posting lower figures?

Why would the police have a vested interest in publishing high figures?

Both they and the government want to be able to claim they are doing a marvellous job

Lots of crime = bigger budget.

Lots of crime = lots of criticism

Criticism is easy to handle when you have lots of cash and power."

I disagree that is the case here. The police and the government want to be seen as doing a good job.

If police performance appears bad they get pressure from above as well as criticism from the public.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I am interested in the Psychology is it the way we view crime/murder ?.

I suspect that violent crime reduction may have been affected by removing lead from the environment, specifically car fumes!"
.

I should have really added children's toys to that list.

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

Maybe killers have learned from the mistakes of those who got caught?

A lot of crime is down, or rather official recorded stats are, so maybe it follows this trend?

As police numbers are cut even further by government, I don't have tons of faith in the justice system.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

uk population 1980 56.31 million

uk population 2013 64.1 million

we should have a lot more crime/murders not a lot less ???

Football violence none 70s awful

graphiti none 60/70s skins rule lol

child abuse 50/60/70/80s endemic now childline there looking at 14 years

mugging common in 70/80s now rare

why do we all think the reverse....is it Psychological ?

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk


"

why do we all think the reverse....is it Psychological ?

"

Again, who says we all do?

You're repeating this over and over but haven't shown any evidence that "we" "all" actually think that.

It's pretty unlikely that there's anything that we all think.

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By *he-Hosiery-GentMan
over a year ago

Older Hot Bearded Guy


"I was just thinking is murder going out of fashion ?

there seemed to be a lot more years ago,Shipman,Fred West etc etc, what are your views ?

"

PMSL

Post of the year.

Whatever next...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"uk population 1980 56.31 million

uk population 2013 64.1 million

we should have a lot more crime/murders not a lot less ???

Football violence none 70s awful

graphiti none 60/70s skins rule lol

child abuse 50/60/70/80s endemic now childline there looking at 14 years

mugging common in 70/80s now rare

why do we all think the reverse....is it Psychological ?

"
.

Sexual violence is at an all time high though,

So if your reverse theory works do people think there's hardly any today?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"yes the jihadist murder was bad I agree

but the IRA bombs in the 70s and 80s were a lot worse

How can you say one is worse than another? Or am I just completely confused by this whole thing?

Perhaps he meant greater in number?

.

I think when you kill people on mass, it's a crime whether you kill 1000 or 1001 shouldn't influence your perception of the crime!"

I got the feeling he meant in terms of number too. But I do agree with the above poster, I don't think number should come into it.

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By *empting Devil.Woman
over a year ago

Sheffield

All the programmes like CSI have taught us how to conceal things better.

Right, gotta go and visit five different diy stores in five different towns and pay for my purchases in cash...

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"uk population 1980 56.31 million

uk population 2013 64.1 million

we should have a lot more crime/murders not a lot less ???

Football violence none 70s awful

graphiti none 60/70s skins rule lol

child abuse 50/60/70/80s endemic now childline there looking at 14 years

mugging common in 70/80s now rare

why do we all think the reverse....is it Psychological ?

.

Sexual violence is at an all time high though,

So if your reverse theory works do people think there's hardly any today?"

sexual violence all time high ? source ? doubt if Savile harris steward hall victims would agree

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"uk population 1980 56.31 million

uk population 2013 64.1 million

we should have a lot more crime/murders not a lot less ???

Football violence none 70s awful

graphiti none 60/70s skins rule lol

child abuse 50/60/70/80s endemic now childline there looking at 14 years

mugging common in 70/80s now rare

why do we all think the reverse....is it Psychological ?

.

Sexual violence is at an all time high though,

So if your reverse theory works do people think there's hardly any today?

sexual violence all time high ? source ? doubt if Savile harris steward hall victims would agree"
.

Five live ... 12 o'clock news! 27 minutes ago

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

could be correct...but one swallow doesn't make a summer

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Murder rates are down but mugging people to steal their tinfoil hats is through the roof

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

The number of recorded sexual offences on trains and at stations has risen 25% to a record level, British Transport Police (BTP) figures suggest.

I think this .

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

sexual offences on trains sounds like fabbers getting up to naughties

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Poor mans MILE HIGH club

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The number of recorded sexual offences on trains and at stations has risen 25% to a record level, British Transport Police (BTP) figures suggest.

I think this .

"
.

Ahh it was trains and stations

My mistake, so if the reverse theory works, do people think that there's much less sexual assaults on public transport then!

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk


"uk population 1980 56.31 million

uk population 2013 64.1 million

we should have a lot more crime/murders not a lot less ???

Football violence none 70s awful

graphiti none 60/70s skins rule lol

child abuse 50/60/70/80s endemic now childline there looking at 14 years

mugging common in 70/80s now rare

why do we all think the reverse....is it Psychological ?

.

Sexual violence is at an all time high though,

So if your reverse theory works do people think there's hardly any today?

sexual violence all time high ? source ? doubt if Savile harris steward hall victims would agree"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11362013/Violent-crime-surges-16-in-new-figures.html

Now let's see some sources for your claims that don't just focus on one type of crime in one city.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 19/08/15 12:49:46]

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk


"The number of recorded sexual offences on trains and at stations has risen 25% to a record level, British Transport Police (BTP) figures suggest.

I think this .

.

Ahh it was trains and stations

My mistake, so if the reverse theory works, do people think that there's much less sexual assaults on public transport then!"

You weren't mistaken. See my link above.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

While the crimes that government measure police forces on has generally dropped(burglary, theft, car crime,violent crime), overall crime,many of which the government don't openly publish figures about (cyber crime,internet grooming, on line exploitation, hate crimes etc) has risen sharply. Why do you think the government want to scrap the human rights convention, and have access to peoples email, telephone messages etc. It's not just about terrorism. The government use the generally published figures as an excuse to cut police numbers. If crime was falling that much, why is there a drive to recruit more and more special constables, who don't get paid and PCSO's, who cost less and virtually have no powers ! The government want us all to believe all the lies they espouse and everything in the garden is wonderful.

At the end of the day,it is so easy for government to pound on police forces and stir up public resentment. The police can do nothing about it, and if any chief constable comes out against government, they are soon out of a job.

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk


"sexual offences on trains sounds like fabbers getting up to naughties "

Your comments are getting more and more ridiculous.

Consensual sex, even if NSA has absolutely nothing to do with sexual offences anywhere.

Unless you are suggesting frustrated fab members are going out attacking people on trains?

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

This has to be a wind-up thread. Nobody could actually believe some of this stuff.

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead


"Its true that the human race on a global scale is killing a lot less people than we used to. Which I think we can all agree is a good thing right?"

we all don't run off to the crusades like we use to....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I was just thinking is murder going out of fashion ?

there seemed to be a lot more years ago,Shipman,Fred West etc etc, what are your views ?

Are you serious?

"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Graffiti 0????

That's patently untrue if you bother to look around you. It's just become so commonplace, you don't notice it anymore. It's become a part of the urban background. Dies ANYBODY ting the police if someone daubs something on a wall or a fence?

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

The Office Of National Statistics confirm the murder rate is half what it was in 2003 and is at it lowest level since 1972 despite a larger population.

case closed.....but why are we all less violent ?

source http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9411649/Graphic-how-the-murder-rate-has-fallen.html

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I've got to say I feel safer than I did 20 years ago, but that might have to do with a lot of things moving to the countryside and being older and wiser. I must say with all the cctv and DNa it must be much easier to catch people now than it was years ago

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"uk population 1980 56.31 million

uk population 2013 64.1 million

we should have a lot more crime/murders not a lot less ???

Football violence none 70s awful

graphiti none 60/70s skins rule lol

child abuse 50/60/70/80s endemic now childline there looking at 14 years

mugging common in 70/80s now rare

why do we all think the reverse....is it Psychological ?

"

Or are the figures for prosecutions or reports of crimes? How many people don't even bother reporting them? How many do the police actually bother investigating. How many that they do, end up as successful prosecutions? Be very careful about what you believe.

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

are we talking just of murder.. or diseases....

yeah!!!! bring back the plague!!! thats was a proper killer!!!

ooooh... how about smallpox!!!

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

if someone is caught having sex on a station or train that would be recorded as a sexual offence....just try

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

The U.S. murder rate last year hit the lowest level since 1966 as the number of serious crimes committed nationwide fell for the eighth year in a row, the FBI said today.

In its 422-page report detailing final U.S. crime statistics for 1999, the FBI said the murder count stood at 15,533 last year, or one murder every 34 minutes.

The murder rate worked out to six murders for every 100,000 U.S. inhabitants, the lowest level since 1966 when there were 5.7 murders for every 100,000 people.

The overall violent crime rate sank to a 21-year low — 525 murders, rapes, robberies and assaults for every 100,000 residents. The last time the figure was lower — 498 in 1978 — came well before an epidemic of crack cocaine sent violent crime soaring in the mid-1980s.

Source ABC news network usa

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

sorry old report...murder rate has fell a lot more in USA

2013 4.5 murders per 100000

1980 peek 10.2 per 100000

source http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge


"yes the jihadist murder was bad I agree

but the IRA bombs in the 70s and 80s were a lot worse

How can you say one is worse than another? Or am I just completely confused by this whole thing?

Perhaps he meant greater in number?

.

I think when you kill people on mass, it's a crime whether you kill 1000 or 1001 shouldn't influence your perception of the crime!"

But less people killed is surely better than more people killed? It can still be a crime though.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Kids these days just want to sit in their rooms playing on their playstations.

"

Or with themselves

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk


"if someone is caught having sex on a station or train that would be recorded as a sexual offence....just try "

No it wouldn't

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk


"The Office Of National Statistics confirm the murder rate is half what it was in 2003 and is at it lowest level since 1972 despite a larger population.

case closed.....but why are we all less violent ?

source http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9411649/Graphic-how-the-murder-rate-has-fallen.html

"

You said the crime rate had halved. Murder is only one crime.

There is no consistency in what you are saying at all.

Plus fewer murders does not mean we are less violent. It means fewer people are murdered, nothing more.

Perhaps because forensic science is now so advanced, people realise they are far less likely to get away with it now.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The U.S. murder rate last year hit the lowest level since 1966 as the number of serious crimes committed nationwide fell for the eighth year in a row, the FBI said today.

In its 422-page report detailing final U.S. crime statistics for 1999, the FBI said the murder count stood at 15,533 last year, or one murder every 34 minutes.

The murder rate worked out to six murders for every 100,000 U.S. inhabitants, the lowest level since 1966 when there were 5.7 murders for every 100,000 people.

The overall violent crime rate sank to a 21-year low — 525 murders, rapes, robberies and assaults for every 100,000 residents. The last time the figure was lower — 498 in 1978 — came well before an epidemic of crack cocaine sent violent crime soaring in the mid-1980s.

Source ABC news network usa"

Could the 3 strikes and out rule have an impact on that? You can't be a recidivist if your in the big house.

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk


"if someone is caught having sex on a station or train that would be recorded as a sexual offence....just try

No it wouldn't "

It would be a public indecency offence but if only consenting adults were involved it wouldn't be a sexual offence.

And sexual offences in general are up by a large percentage, not just at stations and on trains.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

perhaps Virago...but it does it explain the world wide fall in crime/murders

also I dont think people consider forensic science when it kicks off outside the kebab shop on a Saturday night

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"yes the jihadist murder was bad I agree

but the IRA bombs in the 70s and 80s were a lot worse

How can you say one is worse than another? Or am I just completely confused by this whole thing?

Perhaps he meant greater in number?

.

I think when you kill people on mass, it's a crime whether you kill 1000 or 1001 shouldn't influence your perception of the crime!

But less people killed is surely better than more people killed? It can still be a crime though. "
.

To the person murdered it doesn't mean any difference at all

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"if someone is caught having sex on a station or train that would be recorded as a sexual offence....just try

No it wouldn't

It would be a public indecency offence but if only consenting adults were involved it wouldn't be a sexual offence.

And sexual offences in general are up by a large percentage, not just at stations and on trains."

It could well be classed as indecent exposure and thus a possible entry on the sex offenders register !

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"sorry old report...murder rate has fell a lot more in USA

2013 4.5 murders per 100000

1980 peek 10.2 per 100000

source http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm"
.

The US have more people locked up than the other top ten industrialised countries combined

If I locked up 15% of the population, I'd expect the crime rate to fall, probably the birth rate as well and sky subscriptions but there really not connected

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The people like this expect to get meets FFs

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

some thoughts

maybe ,nitric oxide,extasy are less violent than 10 pints of 70s larger, skinheads,bovver boys.clockwork orange,flick knives,razors,bike chains

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By *icky999Man
over a year ago

warrington


"yes the jihadist murder was bad I agree

but the IRA bombs in the 70s and 80s were a lot worse

How can you say one is worse than another? Or am I just completely confused by this whole thing?

Perhaps he meant greater in number?

.

I think when you kill people on mass, it's a crime whether you kill 1000 or 1001 shouldn't influence your perception of the crime!

But less people killed is surely better than more people killed? It can still be a crime though. .

To the person murdered it doesn't mean any difference at all"

omg have you all gone mad?

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

its been an interesting thread hopefully we can all respect each others opinions

and if crime/murder continues to fall benefit from lower police spending,fewer jails,lower insurance premiums,and most importantly higher quality of life.

p.s feel free to check sources and put me right if I may be wrong thanks Pete.

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

[Removed by poster at 19/08/15 14:00:36]

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

[Removed by poster at 19/08/15 14:00:49]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"some thoughts

maybe ,nitric oxide,extasy are less violent than 10 pints of 70s larger, skinheads,bovver boys.clockwork orange,flick knives,razors,bike chains"

Up until Kubrick's death, A Clockwork Orange wasn't on general release in this country. And I doubt the troublemakers you mention could have read Anthony Burgess's original novel as it was all written in Nadsat. It's a good book though.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Hi V you have made me think(no bad thing) I have read that certain sex offences have nosedived though...you never hear about dirty old men in white macs exposing themselves and being gay isn't a sexual offence anymore....and the child abuse that went on years ago was staggering not just celebs or catholic priests

p,s thanks for keeping the debate civilised.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Apparently the Midsomer Murders death toll is 246 murders; twelve accidental deaths, eleven suicides and eight deaths from natural causes.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Murders sell copy Soxy..ask any newspaper man

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Murders sell copy Soxy..ask any newspaper man "

But I've never even seen a man made of Newspaper....

I bet he's not much use on a windy day...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I was just thinking is murder going out of fashion ?

there seemed to be a lot more years ago,Shipman,Fred West etc etc, what are your views ?

"

Perhaps medical advances mean that we are better at saving those that would have died in the past?

What?

Its at least as ridiculous as some of your theories!

In reality, overall crime figures have been "massaged" to such an extent by successive governments that nobody knows the truth anymore.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Govenment's all over the western world are hoodwinking their populations....really sounds like 1984 the novel.

I like murders....as a statistic that is,

people cant be a little bit dead.,..or slightly dead...or you cant under report a death....hes not dead he's only kidding !

and murders are only half what they were in 2003....heading for 1950s levels when the larger population is accounted for....so why do we all think otherwise ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Govenment's all over the western world are hoodwinking their populations....really sounds like 1984 the novel.

I like murders....as a statistic that is,

people cant be a little bit dead.,..or slightly dead...or you cant under report a death....hes not dead he's only kidding !

and murders are only half what they were in 2003....heading for 1950s levels when the larger population is accounted for....so why do we all think otherwise ?"

Maybe they tend to be seen as manslaughter instead? Maybe all the murderous people are in chokey at the moment. Can we expect an upsurge if they let out a glut of them?

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By *at69driveMan
over a year ago

Hertford


"why do we still think crime is at record highs despite all the evidence ?

is it an age thing ?

do the young share our views ?"
. Some crimes are down graded for reporting purposes . We may not be making a true like for like comparison. Other crimes might be reported to the police but not actually recorded as a crime .

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By *uby0000Woman
over a year ago

hertfordshire

im glad murder is on the decline according to the OP btw pistorious is out of prison on Friday just saying

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

So do these murder rate statistics report crime per head of increasing population or simply year on year comparisons......

Because only one of those figures has any real meaning...

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By *at69driveMan
over a year ago

Hertford


"uk population 1980 56.31 million

uk population 2013 64.1 million

we should have a lot more crime/murders not a lot less ???

Football violence none 70s awful

graphiti none 60/70s skins rule lol

child abuse 50/60/70/80s endemic now childline there looking at 14 years

mugging common in 70/80s now rare

why do we all think the reverse....is it Psychological ?

"
. On what basis do you claim that mugging is now rare . Are you able to quote the number of reported muggings per annum?.

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By *uby0000Woman
over a year ago

hertfordshire

child abuse is on the rise jimmy Saville etc

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By *at69driveMan
over a year ago

Hertford


"The Office Of National Statistics confirm the murder rate is half what it was in 2003 and is at it lowest level since 1972 despite a larger population.

case closed.....but why are we all less violent ?

source http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9411649/Graphic-how-the-murder-rate-has-fallen.html

"
. Maybe some murders are down graded to manslaughter . Do you have the figures for manslaughter ?

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

The study was compiled from Home Office statistics by the Institute for Economics and Peace, a think tank.

It found that the homicide rate – which includes murders and other killings – has halved in a decade.

Overall, the violent crime rate was down by a quarter, from 1,255 crimes for every 100,000 people a decade ago to 933 last year.

Crime in England and Wales fell at a faster rate than the European average over that period, with eight in ten of local council areas experiencing a drop of at least 10 per cent.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2313942/UK-Peace-Index-Rate-murders-violent-crime-falling-faster-Western-Europe.html#ixzz3jGw0BV1B

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Compiled by the Home Office. No vested interest there then. Reported in the daily mail. Says a lot don't you think?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What!!??? Right I'm a prison custody officer in a category B all male prison, it's quite a small prison 1,200 and there's room at the inn but not much.

Granted we don't have murderers here but we do have people that have caused death by dangerous driving, people that have killed children through abuse and neglect, many many many many armed robbers, possession of firearms, drug dealers, traffickers. People that have caused extreme bodily injury to people.

The national crime statistics have dropped but the number of sex crimes against women have increased, luckily they don't come to my prison, fuck knows why but they go to a lower security prison than mine. Fraud and money laundering crimes have increased and muggings have increased. Without turning this into a race row when you have access to crime statistics and you see the ethnicities of people committing these crimes it will shock you to know that sex crimes and violence towards women for the last 3 years it's over 75% of these crimes are committed by non British people, now that's scary and to me suggests that these people doing it are from countries where they have little respect or regard for women. Fraud and money laundering this year was done by 86.4% British people. Suggests to me that British people are on their arses financially and are doing all these extra things for money!

As for murders they're all around. Still happening, in 2009 the year I was pregnant my fathers friend killed my friend who was his 21 year old ex girlfriend, he strangled her and drove her body to the police station,sick fucker Phil Packer, Jenna Thomas if you google it, same year boy I was in school with killed his wife, girl who I used to hang around with when she first moved to wales she lived in my street, she was a slag cos she slept with all the boys that we hung round with but still didn't deserve to be murdered, he killed her, put her body in her own suitcase and chucked it off the side of the M4 Paul Grabham, Kirsty Grabham if you google it. 2010 My sisters 16 year old best friend killed by a boy who was also friends with my sister, caved her skull in with a rock in the woods. Rebecca Aylward josh Davies if you google it.

My friend and someone I'd sparred with in my kickboxing gym Rhys Lewis battered a guy to death in 2007 in a train station. Outside my aunts house last year a guy was murdered in his house.

My own Grandfather came out of prison when I was 5 after 22 years in prison for killing someone in an unlicensed boxing match. Can't tell me that there's not many murderers about cos it's all I see round here. Good thing is I suppose all the people killed were killed by people they knew, wasn't just random attacks, although my place sounds horrible I do love where I live and feel safe.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Right your a prison custody officer at one of our dwindling number of jails...and maybe as you deal with criminals on a day to day basis this might give you a jaded view of society(it would affect me too) we have always had these peeps question is are there more or less ?

are there any plans to close/downgrade you place of work ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Right your a prison custody officer at one of our dwindling number of jails...and maybe as you deal with criminals on a day to day basis this might give you a jaded view of society(it would affect me too) we have always had these peeps question is are there more or less ?

are there any plans to close/downgrade you place of work ?"

No plans for mine to close. More or less murders from when? Now to 30 years ago, 20, more?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I just don't think it's taught at school anymore, kids of today get needle work and Spanish instead

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Hi murders have halved since 2003...see previous post in this thread...and check the sources,Home Office,Office Of National Statistics ,Daily Mail,Telegraph,FBI for USA stats

The puzzle is why they have fallen so fast ?

and why people dont feel they have fallen ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Hi murders have halved since 2003...see previous post in this thread...and check the sources,Home Office,Office Of National Statistics ,Daily Mail,Telegraph,FBI for USA stats

The puzzle is why they have fallen so fast ?

and why people dont feel they have fallen ?"
.

I keep telling you there's a lot of evidence to suggest the removal of lead from stuff like car exhausts, toys, water

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Not sure about the UK- lies,damned lies and all dat.

But violent crime dropped in U.S. in the 90s Significantly, as a consequence of the legalising of abortion some time early/mid 70s. So there were less unwanted children going through difficult childhoods and then going on to get involved in violent crime.

Freakonomics

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

This has been an interesting thread,great to read what fabbers think...mostly healthy scepticism,but the weight of evidence from around the world is undeniable .

better than the boring threads about benefits,or predictable questions on male member size. Pete

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Not sure about the UK- lies,damned lies and all dat.

But violent crime dropped in U.S. in the 90s Significantly, as a consequence of the legalising of abortion some time early/mid 70s. So there were less unwanted children going through difficult childhoods and then going on to get involved in violent crime.

Freakonomics "

your bang on right I read that book,changed my life,opened my closed mind everything made sense for once....cant blame folk for being wary though.

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