FabSwingers.com forum: Boring Hypothetical.

By *ranny-Crumpet OP Woman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

Thinkers welcome.

Tosspots welcome but your advice may be overlooked or worse.

Person 1 and person 2 have been friends for five or six years having known each other for about seven.

Person 1 and 2 start a business with each putting in the same amount of money. The business does not take off.

Both often think about business and what would work and what went wrong, often suggesting ideas to each other and talking them through.

They remain good friends and see each other at least 2 or 3 times a week for different lengths of time and activities.

Then, a year after the first business failed, person 1 mails person 2 and says.... I have a great idea. Think this will work. Can we talk about it when you are back?

Person 2 replies. Yes. Don't take that as I will go into business though but I will listen to the idea. Looking forward to seeing you when I get back.

Person 1 Doesn't respond to three mails, very short mails saying person 2 has arrived home.

12 hours later person 1 texts. Sorry I tried to involve you in business. You are right not to enter into business because that is what every entrepeneur does isn't it? Just give up after the first hurdle. I will go into business on my own if that's okay with you. xx

Person 2 says... Call me. I want to say what I have to say by voice. Not via a cowardly text.

Person 1 does not call.

12 or so hours go by. Person 1 mails and says. I did not call cos I knew what you were going to say.

In brief. Person 2 says Person 1 shat on their freindship and business partnership by refusing to listen to what person 2 had to say and has just cut them out of plans.

Person 1 says person 2 is just a tit for tat merchant and is only mad because person 1 never phoned them.

Over to anyone who is still awake.

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By *ranny-Crumpet OP Woman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

Okay it's an Interesting Hypothetical.

Opinions in Cyber Space please.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Perhaps both 1 and 2 should take time as individuals to reflect on whether there is value in continuing the pattern of failure that manifested from their previous joint venture and subsequent falling-out which may or may not have subliminal origins attributed to those events....

I suspect a period of distancing will not further harm the situation....

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By *ranny-Crumpet OP Woman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

Thank you.

So even handed when I wanted you to point the finger hard n long.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Pointing a finger at someone leaves 3 fingers pointing back at the finger pointer .........

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By *ranny-Crumpet OP Woman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

So are you person number 1 ?

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By *irtyGirlWoman
over a year ago

Edinburgh

Person 1 should have at least spoken to Person 2 face to face. It's okay to start your own business, I'd like to think our longstanding friendship meant they'd communicate with me. Advice and support are good things from someone you trust, even if they don't want to get involved in round two.

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By *ranny-Crumpet OP Woman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

"Person 1 should have at least spoken to Person 2 face to face. It's okay to start your own business, I'd like to think our longstanding friendship meant they'd communicate with me. Advice and support are good things from someone you trust, even if they don't want to get involved in round two."

So you lean more to person 2 ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So are you person number 1 ?"

Gwanny,,,,,, if I were a number it would probably be,,,,12407

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Person 2 was willing to listen to person 1's business pitch and only give a yes/no answer once they had all the facts.

Person 1 totally missed that point from whatbimade from it.

perhaps person 1 should take a little time to read his emails properly and out together a proper business plan/pitch before throwing their toys out of the pram.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Failure is a word with a certain amount of shame attached to it in society!

I think most people put more energy in to overcoming the shame of the failure instead of finding solutions to the failure.

If you can get past your own "blame culture", you normally find the solution quicker and easier!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Person 2 was willing to listen to person 1's business pitch and only give a yes/no answer once they had all the facts.

Person 1 totally missed that point from whatbimade from it.

perhaps person 1 should take a little time to read his emails properly and out together a proper business plan/pitch before throwing their toys out of the pram."

Excuse the spelling, my phone is being a twat!

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By *irtyGirlWoman
over a year ago

Edinburgh

So you lean more to person 2 ?"

I think Person 1 should have at least spoken to Person 2. If that's leaning then yes.

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By *ranny-Crumpet OP Woman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

"Person 2 was willing to listen to person 1's business pitch and only give a yes/no answer once they had all the facts.

Person 1 totally missed that point from whatbimade from it.

perhaps person 1 should take a little time to read his emails properly and out together a proper business plan/pitch before throwing their toys out of the pram."

I felt that. From reading it person 1 was sarky in their response and I think has made up the part where person 2 won't go into business due to the failure of the first.

Good thinking Sherlock.

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By *ranny-Crumpet OP Woman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

"Failure is a word with a certain amount of shame attached to it in society!

I think most people put more energy in to overcoming the shame of the failure instead of finding solutions to the failure.

If you can get past your own "blame culture", you normally find the solution quicker and easier!"

I'm not sure what that means in relation to the hypothetical.

What are the rights and wrongs of each individual?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Failure is a word with a certain amount of shame attached to it in society!

I think most people put more energy in to overcoming the shame of the failure instead of finding solutions to the failure.

If you can get past your own "blame culture", you normally find the solution quicker and easier!

I'm not sure what that means in relation to the hypothetical.

What are the rights and wrongs of each individual? "
.

It means there both right and there both wrong! But ultimately they failed because they couldn't get past seeing it themselves!

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By *ranny-Crumpet OP Woman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

"Failure is a word with a certain amount of shame attached to it in society!

I think most people put more energy in to overcoming the shame of the failure instead of finding solutions to the failure.

If you can get past your own "blame culture", you normally find the solution quicker and easier!

I'm not sure what that means in relation to the hypothetical.

What are the rights and wrongs of each individual? .

It means there both right and there both wrong! But ultimately they failed because they couldn't get past seeing it themselves!"

Okay. Thanks

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Person 2 was willing to listen to person 1's business pitch and only give a yes/no answer once they had all the facts.

Person 1 totally missed that point from whatbimade from it.

perhaps person 1 should take a little time to read his emails properly and out together a proper business plan/pitch before throwing their toys out of the pram.

I felt that. From reading it person 1 was sarky in their response and I think has made up the part where person 2 won't go into business due to the failure of the first.

Good thinking Sherlock."

Person 2 is being cautious and wants facts before jumping in blind. Person 1 doesn't seem to understand that.

Personally I wouldn't go into business with Person 1.

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By *ranny-Crumpet OP Woman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

"Person 2 was willing to listen to person 1's business pitch and only give a yes/no answer once they had all the facts.

Person 1 totally missed that point from whatbimade from it.

perhaps person 1 should take a little time to read his emails properly and out together a proper business plan/pitch before throwing their toys out of the pram.

I felt that. From reading it person 1 was sarky in their response and I think has made up the part where person 2 won't go into business due to the failure of the first.

Good thinking Sherlock.

Person 2 is being cautious and wants facts before jumping in blind. Person 1 doesn't seem to understand that.

Personally I wouldn't go into business with Person 1."

I'm nodding like a sage.

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By *an_WoodMan
over a year ago

Stafford

Person 1 has overthought the initial reply from person 2. That has lead to miscommunication which I think means both need a timeout from each other. No great loss to either. Fortunately in the swinging world this problem never happen

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By *ranny-Crumpet OP Woman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

"Person 1 has overthought the initial reply from person 2. That has lead to miscommunication which I think means both need a timeout from each other. No great loss to either. Fortunately in the swinging world this problem never happen

No great loss ? Why's that ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Failure is a word with a certain amount of shame attached to it in society!

I think most people put more energy in to overcoming the shame of the failure instead of finding solutions to the failure.

If you can get past your own "blame culture", you normally find the solution quicker and easier!

I'm not sure what that means in relation to the hypothetical.

What are the rights and wrongs of each individual? .

It means there both right and there both wrong! But ultimately they failed because they couldn't get past seeing it themselves!

Okay. Thanks"
.

This bit

Person 2 replies. Yes. Don't take that as I will go into business though but I will listen to the idea.

This bit

And this bit

Person 2 says... Call me. I want to say what I have to say by voice. Not via a cowardly text

These are in actually bits of shared past history and have nothing to do with the current business plan!

Nobody likes being wrong and most of us! , go to alot of effort to appear that were not!

Like what's the first sentence you hear when something gone wrong!

It was your idea?

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By *an_WoodMan
over a year ago

Stafford

If person 1 is upset for something that hasn't actually happened then maybe better to let them fly the proposal solo. Of course I am assuming alot from the first post and if they get to meet face to face it can come good. And maybe the idea is secondrate anyway ? Too much guessing from me

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

When people appear difficult it's worth considering if they are trying to provoke a reaction or whether they are sending a signal......

I tend to find ignoring the situation will eventually result in the person being forced to play their hand without the subterfuge..

It also allows them time for introspective reflection.....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 17/08/15 14:30:07]

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By *ranny-Crumpet OP Woman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

"Failure is a word with a certain amount of shame attached to it in society!

I think most people put more energy in to overcoming the shame of the failure instead of finding solutions to the failure.

If you can get past your own "blame culture", you normally find the solution quicker and easier!

I'm not sure what that means in relation to the hypothetical.

What are the rights and wrongs of each individual? .

It means there both right and there both wrong! But ultimately they failed because they couldn't get past seeing it themselves!

Okay. Thanks.

This bit

Person 2 replies. Yes. Don't take that as I will go into business though but I will listen to the idea.

This bit

And this bit

Person 2 says... Call me. I want to say what I have to say by voice. Not via a cowardly text

These are in actually bits of shared past history and have nothing to do with the current business plan!

Nobody likes being wrong and most of us! , go to alot of effort to appear that were not!

Like what's the first sentence you hear when something gone wrong!

It was your idea?

I agree that the bit said by person 1 relates to the past but the other two parts you mention don't. Good point though Batman..........

No one has blamed the other tho.

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By *ranny-Crumpet OP Woman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

"[Removed by poster at 17/08/15 14:30:07]"

Yeah Yeah you would say that.

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By *ranny-Crumpet OP Woman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

"If person 1 is upset for something that hasn't actually happened then maybe better to let them fly the proposal solo. Of course I am assuming alot from the first post and if they get to meet face to face it can come good. And maybe the idea is secondrate anyway ? Too much guessing from me

I can see what you are saying. The first part especially. Person 1 does seem to be upset about something that hasn't actually happened.

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By *ranny-Crumpet OP Woman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

"When people appear difficult it's worth considering if they are trying to provoke a reaction or whether they are sending a signal......

I tend to find ignoring the situation will eventually result in the person being forced to play their hand without the subterfuge..

It also allows them time for introspective reflection.....

So.... Who was being introspective and subversive ? Person 1 or Person 2 ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Both person 1 and person 2 are delusional , as everyone with half a brain knows that friends should never go into business together .

But if forced to say which of the twats I lean more towards , its person 1 as at least they tried to make an impossible situation better .

But then person 2 may have felt the friendship had been strained enough already ....

Oh I dunno , but the moral of the story is don't fuck up a good friendship by going into business with them

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

Life lesson:

You can make business partners in to friends but not friends in to business partners.

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By *ranny-Crumpet OP Woman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

How did twat 1 try to make the situation better ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"How did twat 1 try to make the situation better ?"

By having an idea to try and turn the business round and offering to talk face to face about it

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

REFRAMING

Person 1 - I'm excited by my idea

Person 2 - (thinks: yeah, but last time didn't work)

Person 2 - I'm cautious about an idea

Person 1 - (thinks: bloody wet blanket!)

Person 2 - Hallo, are you there?

Person 1 - You bloody wet blanket!

Person 2 - (thinks: that hurts my feelings)

Person 2 - Say that to my face, coward!

Person 1 - (thinks - well, if that's what you think of me then f*ck you!)

No blame for person 1 or person 2. Short texts limit communication - you cant discuss detailed thoughts and explore feelings properly in a text.

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By *ranny-Crumpet OP Woman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

"How did twat 1 try to make the situation better ?

By having an idea to try and turn the business round and offering to talk face to face about it

Maybe, but TWAT 1 is the twat that said i'll do it on my own before twat 2 was home for the meeting and TWAT 1 brought up 'giving up' relating to the first business venture. And twat 2 said ... let's talk face to face not twat 1.

Twats.

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By *ranny-Crumpet OP Woman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

"REFRAMING

Person 1 - I'm excited by my idea

Person 2 - (thinks: yeah, but last time didn't work)

Person 2 - I'm cautious about an idea

Person 1 - (thinks: bloody wet blanket!)

Person 2 - Hallo, are you there?

Person 1 - You bloody wet blanket!

Person 2 - (thinks: that hurts my feelings)

Person 2 - Say that to my face, coward!

Person 1 - (thinks - well, if that's what you think of me then f*ck you!)

No blame for person 1 or person 2. Short texts limit communication - you cant discuss detailed thoughts and explore feelings properly in a text."

Texts are shit. However, you go slightly off at point 2. Person 2 never said It didn't work last time. Person 2 said sure let's talk but that doesn't mean I WILL go into business.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"How did twat 1 try to make the situation better ?

By having an idea to try and turn the business round and offering to talk face to face about it

Twats.

Yea , you are correct , having wasted another 5 minutes of my time re reading the op , I now feel as much of a twat as twat 1 and twat 2 for giving a shit !

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By *ranny-Crumpet OP Woman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

Wasted ? It's better than a hard on!!!

Thanks for your input there is an enormous leaning toward twat 2 in these responses. As being the lesser twat I mean.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"When people appear difficult it's worth considering if they are trying to provoke a reaction or whether they are sending a signal......

I tend to find ignoring the situation will eventually result in the person being forced to play their hand without the subterfuge..

It also allows them time for introspective reflection.....

So.... Who was being introspective and subversive ? Person 1 or Person 2 ?"

No point trying to force fit a solution....

So I would suggest from the opening post person 2 would be well advised to step away from the situation and give person 1 time and space too work through their issues and decide what's important to them on their path to the future .....

Better to leave something to heal naturally than repair it badly in haste or risk a permanent break .......

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By *ranny-Crumpet OP Woman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

I have to go into town now.

I hope someone has this solved before bedtime

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By *obbytupperMan
over a year ago

Menston near Ilkley

"I have to go into town now.

I hope someone has this solved before bedtime

There are no friends in business!

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By *unky monkeyMan
over a year ago

in the night garden

[Removed by poster at 17/08/15 15:38:36]

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By *unky monkeyMan
over a year ago

in the night garden

"Person 2 replies. Yes. Don't take that as I will go into business though but I will listen to the idea."

This is where it went pear shaped. At such an early juncture in the correspondence there was absolutely no need to state that caveat. It clearly offended. I agree person 1 was a bit touchy but Person 2 simply didn't have to say that.

Hear person 1 out first then tell them to fuck off if you still wish to, as you now have an informed opinion.

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By *irtyGirlWoman
over a year ago

Edinburgh

"Person 2 replies. Yes. Don't take that as I will go into business though but I will listen to the idea.

Hear person 1 out first then tell them to fuck off if you still wish to, as you now have an informed opinion."

Yeah that's also true... perhaps person 2 could have worded that better or indeed saved it for a face to face conversation once they'd heard the idea. I think they're both a bit touchy though.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Zzzzzzzz

I'm amazed I got to the end of that. I have a short attention spa....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

In truth they both need to learn the subtle art of communication.

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

"Pointing a finger at someone leaves 3 fingers pointing back at the finger pointer .........

"
oooh! I like that!

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

Person 1 needs to grow up if they want to run a successful business. Person 2 needs to work on their communication skills.

If their friendship is strong they will find a way back to each other after a little break. Provided they can be grown ups and agree the past is in the past.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"Pointing a finger at someone leaves 3 fingers pointing back at the finger pointer .........

oooh! I like that!

Reading backwards up the thread now... It's what my old vicar taught me 40 odd years ago.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"When people appear difficult it's worth considering if they are trying to provoke a reaction or whether they are sending a signal......

I tend to find ignoring the situation will eventually result in the person being forced to play their hand without the subterfuge..

It also allows them time for introspective reflection.....

So.... Who was being introspective and subversive ? Person 1 or Person 2 ?

No point trying to force fit a solution....

Better to leave something to heal naturally than repair it badly in haste or risk a permanent break .......

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"REFRAMING

Person 1 - I'm excited by my idea

Person 2 - (thinks: yeah, but last time didn't work)

Person 2 - I'm cautious about an idea

Person 1 - (thinks: bloody wet blanket!)

Person 2 - Hallo, are you there?

Person 1 - You bloody wet blanket!

Person 2 - (thinks: that hurts my feelings)

Person 2 - Say that to my face, coward!

Person 1 - (thinks - well, if that's what you think of me then f*ck you!)

No blame for person 1 or person 2. Short texts limit communication - you cant discuss detailed thoughts and explore feelings properly in a text.

Texts are shit. However, you go slightly off at point 2. Person 2 never said It didn't work last time. Person 2 said sure let's talk but that doesn't mean I WILL go into business.

Granny, you are making my point for me! Short texts leave people speculating on what's behind the words - and they may draw the wrong conclusions.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Person 2 was very fair and wanted the facts before making a decision. Also made sure person 1 didn't make an assumption that the business partnership was go go go without said facts. Person 1 got the hump that person 2 didn't jump on board blindly. Person 1 is a dick.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Thinkers welcome.