FabSwingers.com forum: Student protests

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Just watching the news about the student protests in London, Yet more havoc and destruction over the costs of tuition fee's

Nice to see the police holding all of them until they have been photographed and names taken for any future prosecution's that may be required

On another note not only the damage caused was to government buildings and police vechiles they have been observed to be ripping up the poppy wreaths on the Cenotaph and chucking them on the fires aswell, Fucking disgusting i think (sorry dont often use that word) but what have the wreaths got to do with their demonstration?

I hope those that did this are very proud of themselves and their parents arent serving or ex service personnel xxx Lois xxx

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"Just watching the news about the student protests in London, Yet more havoc and destruction over the costs of tuition fee's

Nice to see the police holding all of them until they have been photographed and names taken for any future prosecution's that may be required

I hope those that did this are very proud of themselves and their parents arent serving or ex service personnel xxx Lois xxx "

don't get me started.....

they have been peacefully protesting all across the country.... they stopped the march on the agreed route and help them in for hours...... this time i think the police have got it wrong.....

they got it wrong in london... they got it wrong in manchester today.... in leeds the police and students co-operated... same in newcastle, same in nottingham... same in sheffield.....

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By *ardybumsCouple
over a year ago

peekin under duvet is it safe?

feed em a diet of lentil soup and make em watch a series of the young ones,they will soon realise how bad life was as an 80,s student

and no i wasnt one !!

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

The police got it wrong because some of the so-called peaceful protesters cant bloody act in a peaceful manner ? Please dont kid yourself some of those people went there with the intention of smashing everything and anything up they could get their hands on

As and when they are prosecuted i hope the full weight of the law comes to bear on them xxx Lois xxx

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"The police got it wrong because some of the so-called peaceful protesters cant bloody act in a peaceful manner ? Please dont kid yourself some of those people went there with the intention of smashing everything and anything up they could get their hands on

As and when they are prosecuted i hope the full weight of the law comes to bear on them xxx Lois xxx"

no the police got it wrong by not allowing them to go the agreed route and then "Kettling" a peaceful protest.... but like I said... most of you will only hear about what happened in london.......

5000 in manchester

3000 in leeds

2000 in sheffield

2000 in glasgow

1000 in Durham

and all across the country the students and kids decided to stand up for what they believed in and did it peacefully.... 20000-30000 students went out the across the country.... at least the BBC are reporting that... if you watched sky you'd believe it was london and london only.....

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Sorry but you are making the word "kettling" sound like something that has never been done before ? If they have done nothing wrong then there wont be anything to be worried about surely ? which was my original point

And another thing what were kids doing at this demo shouldnt they have been in school actually trying to learn something instead some schools actually encouraged their pupils to go along to it

Poor Poor students having to pay back money that they have already had if and when they actually get a job I wish i could get someone to help me along the road to life and if i choose not to get a job over a certain amount of pay then i wouldnt have to pay the loan back !

Quote an interveiw with student recently " I'm studying physcology but really want to do interior design" wtf ? lol I want to be a catwalk model so i think i'll study in maths xxx Lois xxx

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By *eaboMan
over a year ago

marden

after what happened with the last peaceful demonstration in london i think the police got it right. We have a right to protest but need to look after this right before we loose it. A small minority will cause trouble at any protest, but break the law and you face the possibility of punishment. I don't see how you can use a disagreement as justification for violence or destruction of property. The first sign of trouble the police reacted. They would have spotters on rooftops to photo troublemakers and the photographing and identifying of everyone at a flashpoint will ensure only the troublemakers are punished.

I have had four of my children go through uni, and each has a huge debt to pay off now. I strongly feel education should be free but cannot condone violence or destruction to push a point.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

and has anyone thought about how much these protests cost the tax payer, the bill for the police alone must be in the millions.

and notice tha they protest on a "school" day not the weekend.

sorry they arent getting my support

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" I strongly feel education should be free but cannot condone violence or destruction to push a point."

see my point on the other thread.

nothing is free, why should others pay so your kids have a better life????????

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By *ig badMan
over a year ago

Up North :-)

"Just watching the news about the student protests in London, Yet more havoc and destruction over the costs of tuition fee's

Nice to see the police holding all of them until they have been photographed and names taken for any future prosecution's that may be required

I hope those that did this are very proud of themselves and their parents arent serving or ex service personnel xxx Lois xxx "

Excess testosterone, the need to be a fredom fighter and not really having a clue what they are doing comes to mind. If i was a student and expecting to pass and get a career i would be more worried about how much tax i will have to pay to keep the current 40 something in pensions and a luxurious retirement.

Personally i think its not exactly fair stumping up fees. But it it stops the "professional student" You know the ones who are still at Unit at 30 from tossing it off at the tax payers expense then it has some merits. One thing for sure rioting and protests do not work, ask the miners.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"after what happened with the last peaceful demonstration in london i think the police got it right. We have a right to protest but need to look after this right before we loose it. A small minority will cause trouble at any protest, but break the law and you face the possibility of punishment. I don't see how you can use a disagreement as justification for violence or destruction of property. The first sign of trouble the police reacted. They would have spotters on rooftops to photo troublemakers and the photographing and identifying of everyone at a flashpoint will ensure only the troublemakers are punished.

I have had four of my children go through uni, and each has a huge debt to pay off now. I strongly feel education should be free but cannot condone violence or destruction to push a point."

A very valid point there education should be free to a certain extent but when you are looking at higher paid jobs then shouldnt there be some sort of no pain no gain scenario ? unless of course the parents already own the company that the child will eventually go on to become head of it by birthright therefor not really needing a higher education by default ? xxx Lois xxx

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"Sorry but you are making the word "kettling" sound like something that has never been done before ? If they have done nothing wrong then there wont be anything to be worried about surely ? which was my original point

And another thing what were kids doing at this demo shouldnt they have been in school actually trying to learn something instead some schools actually encouraged their pupils to go along to it

Quote an interveiw with student recently " I'm studying physcology but really want to do interior design" wtf ? lol I want to be a catwalk model so i think i'll study in maths xxx Lois xxx"

so lois... Can I ask did you go to university? Can I ask if anyone you know went to university... cause I have come up with something radical...

I have come up with a great idea... I think we should retrospectively say to everyone that went to university the following:

"right.. you got it for free... you should pay 9k for every year you were at university!"

how do you think that would go down?

how big do you think that backlash would be???

so why should the kids of today have to pay when the adults of the past didn't???

too right I think the kids were right to be out there... after all they are going to be the ones affected by it... if it stops poorer talented kids from going to university then that is one less kid who isn't going to achieve up to there full potential.....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

sorry _abio, but look at the past, many more people go to uni now, for many reasons, but mainly because its easyer than it used to be and it promises a better life, im prportion the amount spent on higher education in the past was a tiny amount, now its a huge percent of our gdp.

it has to stop, we cant afford it, so whats wrong for charging for a service, should the gov pay to have your boiler fixed? of course not, so why should they pay for what is very much a luxury item?????

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Nobody condones violence but what are people to do when they've been lied to by those who go on to 'lead the country', especially when the lies are about the cost of higher and further education - an education provided free of charge by the nation to the liars?

Particularly when the offspring of the liars will never have to worry about where the money will come from.

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By *eaboMan
over a year ago

marden

for a capitalist society to function we need rich people to invest and poor people to do the work. We need people to do menial jobs and people to do more challenging jobs. If we didn't have both then the economy wouldn't work, hence higher achievers are rewarded because you, me and everyone else in the country needs them. The government takes a higher percentage of tax from the high achievers and they help the country to run. So why should anyone pay for higher education when it is essential to the running of the country? Why should anyone be burdened with a huge debt for doing jobs that are necessary? If no one goes to uni and becomes a doctor, or surgeon who will help when you become ill. All jobs cannot be equal or pay the same as we are then entering into the realms of communism, which as has been demonstrated doesn't work. So why should people shoulder a debt to make your life easier?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"for a capitalist society to function we need rich people to invest and poor people to do the work. We need people to do menial jobs and people to do more challenging jobs. If we didn't have both then the economy wouldn't work, hence higher achievers are rewarded because you, me and everyone else in the country needs them. The government takes a higher percentage of tax from the high achievers and they help the country to run. So why should anyone pay for higher education when it is essential to the running of the country? Why should anyone be burdened with a huge debt for doing jobs that are necessary? If no one goes to uni and becomes a doctor, or surgeon who will help when you become ill. All jobs cannot be equal or pay the same as we are then entering into the realms of communism, which as has been demonstrated doesn't work. So why should people shoulder a debt to make your life easier?"

look back, it has always in history been the wealthy who sent thier kids to uni, they still will, wealthy people tend to be the people you are talking about, they in the past have payed for their kids to be educated, let it continue

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By *eaboMan
over a year ago

marden

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

for those studends to lazy to read the other tread, i have copied and pasted what i said on it hear for you.

have to disagre with the sudents on this one, reason beeing first. why should the rest of the country pay for you to be educated beyond a standard level.

2. there are so many degree educated people coming out into the world, and guess what they cant do anything, we need people who can do things not just think about things.

if you want higher education you should have to pay and pay for it all.

no one has a right to anything in this world, everything should be earned, in my view students moaning about having to pay their fees are no better than dole dossers

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

And another thing what were kids doing at this demo shouldnt they have been in school actually trying to learn something instead some schools actually encouraged their pupils to go along to it

Quote an interveiw with student recently " I'm studying physcology but really want to do interior design" wtf ? lol I want to be a catwalk model so i think i'll study in maths xxx Lois xxx

so lois... Can I ask did you go to university? Can I ask if anyone you know went to university... cause I have come up with something radical...

I have come up with a great idea... I think we should retrospectively say to everyone that went to university the following:

"right.. you got it for free... you should pay 9k for every year you were at university!"

how do you think that would go down?

how big do you think that backlash would be???

so why should the kids of today have to pay when the adults of the past didn't???

Not that my education has any real bearing on my original point about burning wreaths that were put there as a tribute to the fallen but no i didnt go to uni but know quite a few that did as i was a full time mother and some then are still without a full time job many years later and didnt have to pay back their loans because as its already been said they were there because it was the easier option

If those people that went to uni years ago are now erning in excess of lets say 70k a year and got it free then yes why not let them repay some if not all the money they got away with in the past.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"for those studends to lazy to read the other tread, i have copied and pasted what i said on it hear for you.

have to disagre with the sudents on this one, reason beeing first. why should the rest of the country pay for you to be educated beyond a standard level.

2. there are so many degree educated people coming out into the world, and guess what they cant do anything, we need people who can do things not just think about things.

if you want higher education you should have to pay and pay for it all.

no one has a right to anything in this world, everything should be earned, in my view students moaning about having to pay their fees are no better than dole dossers"

Nobody, I think, is arguing that higher education funding needs looked at. The problem I, and most of today's protestors, have is that students and would be students were lied to by both parties to the coalition.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"sorry _abio, but look at the past, many more people go to uni now, for many reasons, but mainly because its easyer than it used to be and it promises a better life, im prportion the amount spent on higher education in the past was a tiny amount, now its a huge percent of our gdp.

Sorry,. but that's rubbish

To say a degree is a luxury is to misunderstand the nature of education and the market. To get and perform many reasonable jobs, you have to have a degree or have a large amount of experience in the role over a long period of time. You can't be a lawyer, doctor, architect, design engineer, teacher. lecturer, officer in any of the services or even a bloody recruitment agent with out a degree.

There are other well paid trades out there, but aprenticeships are few and far between (though there is adult training for many trades). The reality is that for most of the kids who don't get a degree the future holds shop work or unskilled work, honourable honest work, but hardly high paying. I know wherof I speak.

The reality behind whats happening is that the rich and middle classes are pulling ladder up after them and in doing so creating a larger army of debt riden young people who will do crap jobs for rubish money cos they have no choice and no hope of getting out of it. This will just improve the situation of the elite.

And remember, whatever the universities gain from increaced funding, the government will cut from their general budgets. This isn't about imrpoving education. This is I deological.

Why not introduce a graduate tax? Is it because the wealthy people who have degrees fear it will cost them too much money? Well lets not forget, they got their education (and their following general financial success) for free...........off the backs of those who never had any chance of going to university.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Sorry,. but that's rubbish

And remember, whatever the universities gain from increaced funding, the government will cut from their general budgets. This isn't about imrpoving education. This is I deological.

most of the very rich people i know have no degree, so how does that work?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

having a degree doesnt mean you will get a job, every person in their twenties with a degree that i know have to work in sales etc as there is a glut of people overqualified.

there are only so many jobs for the degree educated people, some people have to work on the coal face so to speek.

the main problem is that every one thinks its a right, then all you get is everyone over educated and none prepaired to do the real work.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"..............most of the very rich people i know have no degree, so how does that work?

Most of the VERY rich people either inherited their wealth or had a skill or talent (like music or the ability to act, etc) or have an entrepreneurial bent.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

And while my heckles are well and truly up tonight talking about students and the harsh lives they lead in the search for a better lifestyle choice answer this question if you please Fabio

Why is that my husband goes to work all week out in the pouring rain sometimes having to a poorly paid at present job he has a little luxury of a shop made pizza for tea on a Friday only to find the student stood next to him in the queue is getting the exact same size and topping as him and yet the student gets a 40-50% discount is it that my husband is subsidising yet another discount for them ?

In towns and cities up and down the country where there are uni's normal folk working hard and trying to get by in life see those sort of signs in retail outlets take away food shops and bloody tokens in the local rags to the tune of " Here you go take this token into this shop and we'll give you shedloads of money off, but the person stood next to you in line can bugger off for working hard all week" What the hell has he worked all week for only to be kicked once again when trying to bring a little treat into his life for ? xxx Lois xxx

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

what people forget is that its "the world owes me a living" mentality that has got our country in this mess in the first place, people go on about imagrants, but if people were working instead of getting a useless degree in knitting then there wouldnt be any jobs for them to "steal" in the first place

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

did you know you can do a degree on the life of katie price.

im not making that up

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"having a degree doesnt mean you will get a job, every person in their twenties with a degree that i know have to work in sales etc as there is a glut of people overqualified.

there are only so many jobs for the degree educated people, some people have to work on the coal face so to speek.

the main problem is that every one thinks its a right, then all you get is everyone over educated and none prepaired to do the real work."

I for one know a very nice guy who has a degree in marine biology that was last seen pushing a broom around a shop floor what was the point in his education ? Hubby has young people coming into his workplace from time to time to get to know how a real company works and most of them dont know the difference between a spanner and a srewdriver ffs xxx Lois xxx

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"did you know you can do a degree on the life of katie price.

im not making that up"

Where?

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

that is a decision for there business's....

what i will say is this.... if i had been charged 9k per year there is no way I would have been able to go to university, because there is no why i would have afforded to go.... there is no way my sister would have gone... and there is no way i would have wanted my family to have to pay.... of have 36,000 of debt hanging over my head before I'd even left and gotten on the jobs ladder.....

did going to university make me a better person than I would have been otherwise... absolutely.... and anything the deprives people of that experience of growing, be that mentally and academically is a bad thing...

so like i said... if those who went for free now want people to pay... then i say pay the same as the kids now! don't be hypocrites....

you think university is a treat... without universities there would be no teachers.. or doctors.. or lawyers.. or a million other people that make YOUR life better.....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"did you know you can do a degree on the life of katie price.

im not making that up

Where?"

well i was over stating the point a little for dramatic effect, but the degree in question is about her life and written works, and i believe its available at any uni

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As and when they are prosecuted i hope the full weight of the law comes to bear on them xxx Lois xxx

no the police got it wrong by not allowing them to go the agreed route and then "Kettling" a peaceful protest.... but like I said... most of you will only hear about what happened in london.......

5000 in manchester

3000 in leeds

2000 in sheffield

2000 in glasgow

1000 in Durham

would not be the first time that this stupid technique of so called "kettling" has caused trouble. They have used it with other protests in the past with similar results.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

never seen a lawer that made anyones life better.

but beside that, most did pay most of their fees, i know my brother did, but if not then yes they should pay, why not if you go to the shop for something to improve your life then you have to pay.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"did you know you can do a degree on the life of katie price.

im not making that up

Where?

well i was over stating the point a little for dramatic effect, but the degree in question is about her life and written works, and i believe its available at any uni"

I doubt that very much but, if you can produce a link to the prospectus of any university that offers a degree on the life and written works of Katie Price, I'll accept that.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

the reason i feel so stongly about this is that life is not fair, some people are born ugly, some dont have parents that can send them to uni, some die young, life isnt fair, expecting the gov to make it so will only end badly, people need to take responsability for them selfves

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

My daughter's ex was a professional student. They met at uni. Whilst my daughter got her BA and MA had a job since uni and had worked up the corporate ladder her ex has three first class degrees in law, computer science and engineering.

Still studying at 32, no work experience!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

And another thing what were kids doing at this demo shouldnt they have been in school actually trying to learn something instead some schools actually encouraged their pupils to go along to it

Quote an interveiw with student recently " I'm studying physcology but really want to do interior design" wtf ? lol I want to be a catwalk model so i think i'll study in maths xxx Lois xxx"

we know quite a few student dropouts in newcastle, young 30s that have came to the city for the drinking culture

university for most kids looking at the option is just one glorified piss up at the tax payers expense

90 per cent will start and drop out and not achieve a decent wage to to have to pay anything back anyway.

the ones that acctualy make it and get good degrees , become doctors/lawyers etc etc will pay 50percent taxes so will in effect pay back into the system,those individuals should have the confidence in thier own ability to get through ,achieve and earn good money.

mainly today looking at the protestors/thugs/under15 yr old kids who were tossing off thier free education to go fucking about in the cities we couldnt see any future alan sugars etc

its quite hard to fathom when half the parents we see in newcastle east end(our place of work) use schooling as a threat to thier children yet whinge for free everything.

the gravy train has up and fucked off,we earn a half decent living by both working, if our kids go onto uni we will help them.

cant people understand there is no money left?

the free everything mentality cant really go on anymore as who pays?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Your argument looks good but you could so easily turn it around and say why do working people have to pay (via tax)?

Don't get me wrong, I would not have gone to college if I had not had a grant towards it, as I could not have afforded it and I probably would not have created my own business or be teaching now.

We have to invest in people but it needs to be tempered. What they are currently proposing is in my opinion an excessive burden and will likely result in a lack of independent thinkers in the future. To the detrement of our nation (and a nation is a larger version of a family or should be.)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

couldnt find the one in question but def heard about it from more than one person, but here is a link you might find fun

http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=583194

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"never seen a lawer that made anyones life better.

.................."

No? Michael Mansfield? Shami Chakrabarti? Gareth Peirce? Helena Kennedy?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

in that link is a bit about the beckham degree ffs, need i prove my point more????

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"couldnt find the one in question but def heard about it from more than one person, but here is a link you might find fun

http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=583194"

That's hardly evidence. 'I heard about it from more than one person', is it? I've heard lots of people deny the Holocaust happened, but we all know it did, don't we?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

read the link

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"in that link is a bit about the beckham degree ffs, need i prove my point more????"

It isn't a 'Beckham degree' - it's a degree in a subject which mentions David Beckham, just as you'll find many other degrees which mention any number of figures as objects of ridicule.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Nobody condones violence but what are people to do when they've been lied to by those who go on to 'lead the country', especially when the lies are about the cost of higher and further education - an education provided free of charge by the nation to the liars?

Particularly when the offspring of the liars will never have to worry about where the money will come from."

Hear Hear!

There is the true voice of these protests. They feel conned.

Anyone who has voted in the past knows what a con an election really is but we listen to the parties, try and see through the bullshit, see what has already ben done and make a choice we hope will lead to a better tomorrow..

...but with students, who have got their very first vote, and listened to Clegg promise them PUBLICLY AND SIGN A PLEGE ENDORSING THAT PROMISE - they used that first vote for the LibDems, and got fucked for it.

That's why they're angry.

1) Their vote was 'stolen' from them

2) They have to pay for the priviledge of it.

Too right they're angry.

It won't change anything as Uni fees are going up and that's that but what HAS happened is that the LibDems have fucked off an entire generation - a YOUNG generation with very good, and very long memories.

Political wilderness for 50 years beckons for the LibDems.

Bye Nick.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

think you are getting hung up on the finer points , the point i was making was that it seems everyone has a degree now, most in useless areas, there was a time when having a degree ment something, but now??? even people i know who have just come out of uni say its very easy to get a 2.1 now where as when i was a teen a 2.1 was a major thing.

i better point out at this point, that yes i have a degree and a doctorate.

but all done whilst having a full time job using evening classes etc, might have taken longer than a full uni and post grad course but i had a family to feed, so did it in my own time at my own expense, which is why i get so cross about the protests, if you want it bad enough its doable, life shouldnt be easy

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"think you are getting hung up on the finer points , the point i was making was that it seems everyone has a degree now, most in useless areas, there was a time when having a degree ment something, but now??? even people i know who have just come out of uni say its very easy to get a 2.1 now where as when i was a teen a 2.1 was a major thing.

i better point out at this point, that yes i have a degree and a doctorate.

What some folks call the 'finer points' the rest of us call truth and reality. A wee bit like the other night when someone suggested a darts player was a paedophile (on the basis of absolutely no evidence).

There's no question there are lots of nutty degress though none, as far as there's any EVIDENCE, on Katie Price or David Beckham. That, however, isn't the matter we're discussing.

The OP is about student protest/ violence and, whilst as I've said, nobody can condone that, many people who voted Lib Dem on the basis of their much vaunted 'Pledge' now realise they've been lied to and are, understandably, a wee bit pissed off.

In the interests of transparency I should point out I too have a first degree (MA) and a PhD, both paid for by the MoD.

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By *uton_coupleCouple
over a year ago

luton

in this global economy , an economy that is deppresed i dont see why students should be subsidised

after all we can import nurses , doctors , dentist , scientists etc etc etc from overseas

they come fully educated rip roaring ready to go

even labouring jobs are best filled by overseas workers that will grind away in the fields or factory for 12 hours a day on minimum wage

in many cases it is possible to get these workers to toil in sweatshops for half minimum wage

the majority of students want to become fashion designers , authors , or artists that win the turner prize and become overnight millionares

all those nice possitions are allready taken by stella mcartney or fergie with her childrens books about hellicopter pilots

sorry to say but students are surplus te requirements nowdays

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

well the mod has always been and i hope will always be a good way for people to better themselves, and ye we have got of point, i agree that the student population has been lied to, maybe they are to young and nieve to expect it like the rest of us.

however protests dont work, they to my knowlage have never worked???????

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

have to say luton. i normaly disagree with everything you say but this time w are in total harmony, giss a kiss

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By *drianukMan
over a year ago

Spain, Lancs

The problem is the arbitrary 50 per cent target for people going to university.

It costs a fortune - so the government proposes increased tuition fees to pay for it.

The solution is to have only 20 pr cent of people going to university - so that those who do go aren't in serious debt.

There is NO need to hav 50 pr cent of people going to university and bankrupting themselves to do so

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The problem is the arbitrary 50 per cent target for people going to university.

It costs a fortune - so the government proposes increased tuition fees to pay for it.

The solution is to have only 20 pr cent of people going to university - so that those who do go aren't in serious debt.

There is NO need to hav 50 pr cent of people going to university and bankrupting themselves to do so"

very well said

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"well the mod has always been and i hope will always be a good way for people to better themselves, and ye we have got of point, i agree that the student population has been lied to, maybe they are to young and nieve to expect it like the rest of us.

however protests dont work, they to my knowlage have never worked???????"

My family didn't agree the taking the shilling was a way to 'better' myself but, leaving that aside, protests DO work.

The Poll Tax marches got rid of Thatcher. OK, we now have her bastard children in temporary control but today's (yesterday's?) events suggest that won't be the case for long.

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By *drianukMan
over a year ago

Spain, Lancs

Th Lib Dems are educating students for free - with a stunning lesson in political cynicism!

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By *amschwingerzCouple
over a year ago

West

would not be the first time that this stupid technique of so called "kettling" has caused trouble. They have used it with other protests in the past with similar results."

They use it every week on football supporters..they hone their skills on them because they know, by and large, to the average supporter its all part of of it..they wont complain,you get treated like shit..if they dont get a reaction then the pushing and shoving starts until they do get one..they know what they are doing.

That said...the way SOME of the students acted today was an absolute disgrace..anyone who desecrates a war memorial deserves a fucking good shoeing of the highest order...they have done themselves no favours unfortunately and the genuine students are no going to get tarred with the same brush.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

omg we are going to fall out again and it was getting so nice.

thatcher gave our country a much needed kick up the arse, got rid of most of the unions, that were bankrupting the country, i admit she went a bit far, but she has to be the best leader we have had post war.

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By *drianukMan
over a year ago

Spain, Lancs

Well said Aanda. The countyr would be finished without Thatcher's legacy

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"omg we are going to fall out again and it was getting so nice.

A bit far? She was well to the left of Atilla the Hun.

She had one interest and one interest alone and that was to stick unearned dosh into the pockets and purse of her chums.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"in this global economy , an economy that is deppresed i dont see why students should be subsidised

after all we can import nurses , doctors , dentist , scientists etc etc etc from overseas

they come fully educated rip roaring ready to go

even labouring jobs are best filled by overseas workers that will grind away in the fields or factory for 12 hours a day on minimum wage

in many cases it is possible to get these workers to toil in sweatshops for half minimum wage

the majority of students want to become fashion designers , authors , or artists that win the turner prize and become overnight millionares

all those nice possitions are allready taken by stella mcartney or fergie with her childrens books about hellicopter pilots

sorry to say but students are surplus te requirements nowdays "

you terrors

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"omg we are going to fall out again and it was getting so nice.

A bit far? She was well to the left of Atilla the Hun.

She had one interest and one interest alone and that was to stick unearned dosh into the pockets and purse of her chums."

That would, of course, have been the right of AtH.

Sorry. No delete button.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

she was a great leader left in power a few years to long, shame we dont have someone today with her balls, she would do the hard things to make a difference in the long term, never mind the short term "vote winning" policies so used by todays polticos

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 25/11/10 00:34:24]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Whilst I've been posting here I've had one ear on Sky News, that Murdoch controlled bastion of Tory spin, and I've yet to hear any reports of desecration of the Cenotaph.

That's not proof that it didn't happen but my guess is that, if it did, it'd be the main story in all their bulletins.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

A lot of the time I read opinions on here.

A lot of the time people say ' I am entitled to my opinion OR you are entitled to your opinion.

Indeed that is true. We are ALL entitled to our opinion ; even when that opinion is blantantly biased , immature in outlook, born of bitterness and blindness- is self contradictory and utter emotive drivel lacking in supporting evidence.

I applaud the latest actions of students and lament the sleeping , arse licking sheep of this nation who baa and bleat whilst waiting passively to be fleeced, roasted and stuffed by a government who view each one of us as mere commodity.

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By *arker.Man
over a year ago

Rugby

"A lot of the time I read opinions on here.

A lot of the time people say ' I am entitled to my opinion OR you are entitled to your opinion.

Interesting you applaud immature adolescents committing acts of vandalism at best and looting at worst.

Well as we all can have an opinion i would say there is something disturbing about people who use sensationalism to court attention.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"A lot of the time I read opinions on here.

A lot of the time people say ' I am entitled to my opinion OR you are entitled to your opinion.

Interesting you applaud immature adolescents committing acts of vandalism at best and looting at worst.

Well as we all can have an opinion i would say there is something disturbing about people who use sensationalism to court attention. "

I couldn't agree more.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"A lot of the time I read opinions on here.

A lot of the time people say ' I am entitled to my opinion OR you are entitled to your opinion.

Interesting you applaud immature adolescents committing acts of vandalism at best and looting at worst.

Well as we all can have an opinion i would say there is something disturbing about people who use sensationalism to court attention. "

Adolescents are, by definition, immature.

I disagree they 'courted attention'. The media sensationalied their actions to sell copy.

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By *arker.Man
over a year ago

Rugby

"A lot of the time I read opinions on here.

A lot of the time people say ' I am entitled to my opinion OR you are entitled to your opinion.

Interesting you applaud immature adolescents committing acts of vandalism at best and looting at worst.

Well as we all can have an opinion i would say there is something disturbing about people who use sensationalism to court attention.

I couldn't agree more. "

I have no issues with peaceful demonstrations but they loose any credibility by attacking the police and causing criminal damage. Looking at what has happened in France and other country's its not just an English thing though.

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By *b430Man
over a year ago

Tayside

"A lot of the time I read opinions on here.

A lot of the time people say ' I am entitled to my opinion OR you are entitled to your opinion.

Interesting you applaud immature adolescents committing acts of vandalism at best and looting at worst.

Well as we all can have an opinion i would say there is something disturbing about people who use sensationalism to court attention.

Adolescents are, by definition, immature.

I disagree they 'courted attention'. The media sensationalied their actions to sell copy."

The media made them wreck that Police van then?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"A lot of the time I read opinions on here.

A lot of the time people say ' I am entitled to my opinion OR you are entitled to your opinion.

Interesting you applaud immature adolescents committing acts of vandalism at best and looting at worst.

Well as we all can have an opinion i would say there is something disturbing about people who use sensationalism to court attention.

Adolescents are, by definition, immature.

I disagree they 'courted attention'. The media sensationalied their actions to sell copy.

The media made them wreck that Police van then?

The misguided desire to get media coverage? Yes.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Adolescents are, by definition, immature.

and these are the people you are backing, let them live a bit first.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"A lot of the time I read opinions on here.

A lot of the time people say ' I am entitled to my opinion OR you are entitled to your opinion.

Interesting you applaud immature adolescents committing acts of vandalism at best and looting at worst.

Well as we all can have an opinion i would say there is something disturbing about people who use sensationalism to court attention.

I couldn't agree more.

You mean the students were being sensationalist ? Noooooo I misunderstood you. I thought you meant the emotive clap trap bandied about by people who lack knowledge about cause and effect. As for the 'English thing' Does that exist? What do the Welsh the Irish and The Scots think about that ? Not to mention those participating educationally and politically who are not from any part of Britain.

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By *b430Man
over a year ago

Tayside

"A lot of the time I read opinions on here.

A lot of the time people say ' I am entitled to my opinion OR you are entitled to your opinion.

Interesting you applaud immature adolescents committing acts of vandalism at best and looting at worst.

Well as we all can have an opinion i would say there is something disturbing about people who use sensationalism to court attention.

Adolescents are, by definition, immature.

I disagree they 'courted attention'. The media sensationalied their actions to sell copy.

The media made them wreck that Police van then?

The misguided desire to get media coverage? Yes."

Excuse the French - but what a load of bollocks!

There are some that would do that even if there was a media blackout on it!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"A lot of the time I read opinions on here.

A lot of the time people say ' I am entitled to my opinion OR you are entitled to your opinion.

Interesting you applaud immature adolescents committing acts of vandalism at best and looting at worst.

Well as we all can have an opinion i would say there is something disturbing about people who use sensationalism to court attention.

I couldn't agree more.

All demonstrations find themselves infiltrated by those there for mischievous ends.

The 'English' aspect is a red herring. Our European cousins do violent protest sooooooooooooo much better then you lot ever will.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

you lot?????????????????

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By *arker.Man
over a year ago

Rugby

"A lot of the time I read opinions on here.

A lot of the time people say ' I am entitled to my opinion OR you are entitled to your opinion.

Interesting you applaud immature adolescents committing acts of vandalism at best and looting at worst.

Well as we all can have an opinion i would say there is something disturbing about people who use sensationalism to court attention.

I couldn't agree more.

Scottish students are not currently paying fees so they have nothing to protest about. However students across the world like the idea of rebelling against the system no matter what the cause is, look at past events.

Your wrong though to support anyone causing wanton criminal damage. If it was your property they damaged you wouldn't be too happy.

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By *heWolfMan
over a year ago

warwickshire

I'm with Pol Pot on the subject of keeping students in check. (And I wouldn't lose a wink of sleep)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Adolescents are, by definition, immature.

and these are the people you are backing, let them live a bit first.

I've said all the way through this thread that I don't condone the violence but, just ask yourself, if you'd voted Lib Dem 'cos the local guy had pledged to ensure your elderly mother would have that life-saving cancer surgery she needed and, after the election, he said 'I'm sorry, things have changed, we can't do it any more' - how would you feel? How would you react?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Adolescents are, by definition, immature.

and these are the people you are backing, let them live a bit first.

agree you might be alot pissed off, but fool you for believing

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"A lot of the time I read opinions on here.

A lot of the time people say ' I am entitled to my opinion OR you are entitled to your opinion.

Interesting you applaud immature adolescents committing acts of vandalism at best and looting at worst.

Well as we all can have an opinion i would say there is something disturbing about people who use sensationalism to court attention.

I couldn't agree more.

Your wrong though to support anyone causing wanton criminal damage. If it was your property they damaged you wouldn't be too happy.

Im not wrong.

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By *arker.Man
over a year ago

Rugby

Adolescents are, by definition, immature.

and these are the people you are backing, let them live a bit first.

agree you might be alot pissed off, but fool you for believing"

It looks like a con job by the politicians but you have to be realistic. Do we keep spending more than we can afford? Look at Ireland to see how much of the shit they are in.

Over the last few years the economic climate world wide has changed and we have to adapt if we are to survive. It looks like student fees is one area that will be hit. Its better than closing hospitals or removing care for the elderly isn't it?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"A lot of the time I read opinions on here.

A lot of the time people say ' I am entitled to my opinion OR you are entitled to your opinion.

Interesting you applaud immature adolescents committing acts of vandalism at best and looting at worst.

Well as we all can have an opinion i would say there is something disturbing about people who use sensationalism to court attention.

I couldn't agree more.

Your wrong though to support anyone causing wanton criminal damage. If it was your property they damaged you wouldn't be too happy.

I can't work out who you insist is wrong to condone violence but I agree with you. Violence isn't called for - YET.

The fact that Scottish students studying in Scotland aren't currently paying fees isn't the same thing as Scots students aren't affected by this. The UK has no hard borders as far as student mobility is concerned so anything which affects student applications in England and Wales has an impact on student life in Scotland.

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By *arker.Man
over a year ago

Rugby

"A lot of the time I read opinions on here.

A lot of the time people say ' I am entitled to my opinion OR you are entitled to your opinion.

Interesting you applaud immature adolescents committing acts of vandalism at best and looting at worst.

Well as we all can have an opinion i would say there is something disturbing about people who use sensationalism to court attention.

I couldn't agree more.

Your wrong though to support anyone causing wanton criminal damage. If it was your property they damaged you wouldn't be too happy.

Im not wrong. "

You are dramaticaly wrong if you condone people using force to get their point across.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"A lot of the time I read opinions on here.

A lot of the time people say ' I am entitled to my opinion OR you are entitled to your opinion.

Interesting you applaud immature adolescents committing acts of vandalism at best and looting at worst.

Well as we all can have an opinion i would say there is something disturbing about people who use sensationalism to court attention.

I couldn't agree more.

Your wrong though to support anyone causing wanton criminal damage. If it was your property they damaged you wouldn't be too happy.

Im not wrong.

You are dramaticaly wrong if you condone people using force to get their point across. "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Even then i'd still not be wrong.

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By *arker.Man
over a year ago

Rugby

"Even then i'd still not be wrong."

Violence and aggregation isn't the answer at all and i am surprised at anyone thinking it is.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Adolescents are, by definition, immature.

and these are the people you are backing, let them live a bit first.

agree you might be alot pissed off, but fool you for believing

It looks like a con job by the politicians but you have to be realistic. Do we keep spending more than we can afford? Look at Ireland to see how much of the shit they are in.

This is then core of the issue. For that last 3.5 years Scots have been encouraged to look to the 'Arc of Prosperity' (Iceland, Ireland and Norway) as an example of how prosperous an independent Scotland could be.

With Ireland and Iceland bankrupt it's far more like and 'Arc of Insolvency'.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Even then i'd still not be wrong."

Granny's right. Sometimes force is necessary. Only as a last resort.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Even then i'd still not be wrong.

Violence and aggregation isn't the answer at all and i am surprised at anyone thinking it is. "

Your accusations and replies are classic examples of reading what is not there and incorrectly apportioning blame.

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By *arker.Man
over a year ago

Rugby

"Even then i'd still not be wrong.

Violence and aggregation isn't the answer at all and i am surprised at anyone thinking it is.

Your accusations and replies are classic examples of reading what is not there and incorrectly apportioning blame. "

You didn't watch the students in action then? I know what i saw and it was frankly unacceptable

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"A lot of the time I read opinions on here.

A lot of the time people say ' I am entitled to my opinion OR you are entitled to your opinion.

Interesting you applaud immature adolescents committing acts of vandalism at best and looting at worst.

Well as we all can have an opinion i would say there is something disturbing about people who use sensationalism to court attention.

Adolescents are, by definition, immature.

I disagree they 'courted attention'. The media sensationalied their actions to sell copy.

The media made them wreck that Police van then?

The misguided desire to get media coverage? Yes.

Excuse the French - but what a load of bollocks!

There are some that would do that even if there was a media blackout on it!

Mon Dieu ! Shouldn't that be bolleaux ! ?

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By *arker.Man
over a year ago

Rugby

"A lot of the time I read opinions on here.

A lot of the time people say ' I am entitled to my opinion OR you are entitled to your opinion.

Interesting you applaud immature adolescents committing acts of vandalism at best and looting at worst.

Well as we all can have an opinion i would say there is something disturbing about people who use sensationalism to court attention.

Adolescents are, by definition, immature.

I disagree they 'courted attention'. The media sensationalied their actions to sell copy.

The media made them wreck that Police van then?

The misguided desire to get media coverage? Yes.

Excuse the French - but what a load of bollocks!

There are some that would do that even if there was a media blackout on it!

Mon Dieu ! Shouldn't that be bolleaux ! ?"

You really need to watch the coverage before commenting. It makes you look rather foolish.

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By *mcouple1Couple
over a year ago

nr warrington

After reading all of your posts it seems we have a class war in this thread. It is not about money or students it is about increasing the divide between middle and working class yet again.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Even then i'd still not be wrong.

Violence and aggregation isn't the answer at all and i am surprised at anyone thinking it is.

Your accusations and replies are classic examples of reading what is not there and incorrectly apportioning blame.

You didn't watch the students in action then? I know what i saw and it was frankly unacceptable

You don't follow conversation well. You also make personal comments about people whose opinions differ to yours. You are STILL misreading what people say and replying in any way you want to. But carry on.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"A lot of the time I read opinions on here.

A lot of the time people say ' I am entitled to my opinion OR you are entitled to your opinion.

Interesting you applaud immature adolescents committing acts of vandalism at best and looting at worst.

Well as we all can have an opinion i would say there is something disturbing about people who use sensationalism to court attention.

Adolescents are, by definition, immature.

I disagree they 'courted attention'. The media sensationalied their actions to sell copy.

The media made them wreck that Police van then?

The misguided desire to get media coverage? Yes.

Excuse the French - but what a load of bollocks!

There are some that would do that even if there was a media blackout on it!

Mon Dieu ! Shouldn't that be bolleaux ! ?

You really need to watch the coverage before commenting. It makes you look rather foolish."

No egg on my face I promise you. A mirror could prove very illuminating.

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By *b430Man
over a year ago

Tayside

"....

Adolescents are, by definition, immature.

I disagree they 'courted attention'. The media sensationalied their actions to sell copy.

The media made them wreck that Police van then?

The misguided desire to get media coverage? Yes.

Excuse the French - but what a load of bollocks!

There are some that would do that even if there was a media blackout on it!

Mon Dieu ! Shouldn't that be bolleaux ! ?"

Non, je préfère taper l'anglais et peux donc être compris par tous (No, I prefer typing English and can therefore be understood by all)

PS - Excuse the French is said as a phrase before an expletive to be polite. But never mind, you do learn something new on here everyday!

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By *ung and readyMan
over a year ago

newcastle under lyme

These protesters should form a cue as the British society applauds.

or on the other hand get there nose to the grindstone and make Britain a better place to live.

If they are clever they will see that by doing is to do .

not doing is not.

these people are our future would you choose for riots and mayhem.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Well said Aanda. The countyr would be finished without Thatcher's legacy"

would that be to sell off all the utillity companies so her cronies on leaving government could walk into thier directorships?

selling off all the social housing as a bribe to the average worker which his children are paying for now?

not dealing with the asbestos issue as her husband was the biggest importer of the stuff well into the 1980s.

she was a corrupt horrible little woman who thought britain ended at nottingham where she recruited her scab labour from and divided a country(the miners)

as far as im concerned there arent enough assasins left in this world

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

okay.... this is why I love the conversation like this...

Other than the demo in london..... how many people knew that there were demo's going on all around the country????

How much press has that gotten.....

how many arrests were there at the other marches that happened all across the country and the 25000-30000 that did so peacefully......

like i said... the route of the london procession was routed to go past parliament square and the lib dem hq.... the police changed there mind and decided to "kettle" a peaceful protest...... the police decided to kettle them at whitehall, it was there decision.. no one elses

there are more demo's due to take place next tues I hope they are bigger and more students will go out on the streets....

I hate that this discussion is only about london, and not about the 10's of demos that went on in loads of different cities...."Sky News" gave that no coverage at all.... the BBC did do slightly better....

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By *he_original_poloWoman
over a year ago

a Primark shoebox in Leicester

"... most of you will only hear about what happened in london.......

5000 in manchester

3000 in leeds

2000 in sheffield

2000 in glasgow

1000 in Durham

Typical.... I bet the Leicester ones couldn't be arsed to get out of bed.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

they should disperse them with a water cannon if that doesnot work then try a real cannon most of them are only studying if you can call it that for one those pointless degrees that wont get them a job media studies sports science and the like most are so dumb they think the hadron collider is a cock tail

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

Typical.... I bet the Leicester ones couldn't be arsed to get out of bed."

lol... Actually because I went to uni at DMU I thought I would check to see what happened in leicester....

as i understand there were a few hundred from the sixth form colleges and both sets of universities were in the town centre apparently....

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By *he_original_poloWoman
over a year ago

a Primark shoebox in Leicester

Typical.... I bet the Leicester ones couldn't be arsed to get out of bed.

lol... Actually because I went to uni at DMU I thought I would check to see what happened in leicester....

as i understand there were a few hundred from the sixth form colleges and both sets of universities were in the town centre apparently....

yeah.... peacefully protesting in the pubs.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"These protesters should form a cue as the British society applauds.

or on the other hand get there nose to the grindstone and make Britain a better place to live.

If they are clever they will see that by doing is to do .

not doing is not.

these people are our future would you choose for riots and mayhem.

'Cue'? I think you've just snookered yourself.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Well said Aanda. The countyr would be finished without Thatcher's legacy

would that be to sell off all the utillity companies so her cronies on leaving government could walk into thier directorships?

selling off all the social housing as a bribe to the average worker which his children are paying for now?

not dealing with the asbestos issue as her husband was the biggest importer of the stuff well into the 1980s.

she was a corrupt horrible little woman who thought britain ended at nottingham where she recruited her scab labour from and divided a country(the miners)

as far as im concerned there arent enough assasins left in this world"

I understand she's in constant pain. She doesn't deserve speedy relief from this. We'll happily delay the festivities until whenever she dies.

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By *ig badMan
over a year ago

Up North :-)

Typical.... I bet the Leicester ones couldn't be arsed to get out of bed.

lol... Actually because I went to uni at DMU I thought I would check to see what happened in leicester....

as i understand there were a few hundred from the sixth form colleges and both sets of universities were in the town centre apparently....

yeah.... peacefully protesting in the pubs."

Can you actually do that sat down?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Typical.... I bet the Leicester ones couldn't be arsed to get out of bed.

lol... Actually because I went to uni at DMU I thought I would check to see what happened in leicester....

as i understand there were a few hundred from the sixth form colleges and both sets of universities were in the town centre apparently....

yeah.... peacefully protesting in the pubs.

Can you actually do that sat down?

Protest peacefully? Yes. A bunch of students from UCL did just that. It's been on BBC News earlier today.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Typical.... I bet the Leicester ones couldn't be arsed to get out of bed.

lol... Actually because I went to uni at DMU I thought I would check to see what happened in leicester....

as i understand there were a few hundred from the sixth form colleges and both sets of universities were in the town centre apparently....

yeah.... peacefully protesting in the pubs.

Can you actually do that sat down?

I think most would rather get boozed up and then go antagonize the police in the name of protesting.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Whilst I've been posting here I've had one ear on Sky News, that Murdoch controlled bastion of Tory spin, and I've yet to hear any reports of desecration of the Cenotaph.

That's not proof that it didn't happen but my guess is that, if it did, it'd be the main story in all their bulletins."

I can tell you for certain that the wreaths at the Cenotaph were taken and burnt as i have a family member who works in London and was talking on the phone to me at the time i opened this thread yesterday and was actually watching the Whitehall cctv from their base and not watching the tv that includes SKY !

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Whilst I've been posting here I've had one ear on Sky News, that Murdoch controlled bastion of Tory spin, and I've yet to hear any reports of desecration of the Cenotaph.

That's not proof that it didn't happen but my guess is that, if it did, it'd be the main story in all their bulletins.

Well, we're a day on and I've still yet to see any coverage of wreath burning. I also watched Paul Stephenson answering questions to what looked like the MPA in Boris's big room this morning and it wasn't raised there.

As I say, I've no proof it didn't happen but given the headlines it would have generated I'm sure that if anyone had any proof, pictures etc Tory Central Office and their chums in the media would have bombarded us with them by now.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"okay.... this is why I love the conversation like this...

Other than the demo in london..... how many people knew that there were demo's going on all around the country????

How much press has that gotten.....

how many arrests were there at the other marches that happened all across the country and the 25000-30000 that did so peacefully......

there are more demo's due to take place next tues I hope they are bigger and more students will go out on the streets....

Yes people knew there were other demos going on all over the country and it did get press from the BBC and SKY and also on the local news channels but i dont seem to recall anywhere it has been said that damage was caused on any of the others ? so why couldnt the people at the London demo have a peaceful demo ? No they most probably thought that by doing so in a large gathering they were going to get away scott free with no comeback from the police

I hope that there are more demo's next week and this time i hope the police are armed with some sort of a water cannon which has dye in it so those causing trouble can be easily identified it may even help some of them to wash properly at least once while they are at uni

Lets not forget about the Millbank tower incident, would the students involve in that PEACEFUL demo where people could have been killed in the name of education xxx Lois xxx

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Whilst I've been posting here I've had one ear on Sky News, that Murdoch controlled bastion of Tory spin, and I've yet to hear any reports of desecration of the Cenotaph.

That's not proof that it didn't happen but my guess is that, if it did, it'd be the main story in all their bulletins.

Exactly the same way that the muslim people burning the large poppies was given network airtime ? didnt see very much of that on the news did we ? xxx Lois xxx

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

Until we see footage of the alleged wreath burning yesterday it will remain anecdotal evidence.....which isn't worth a damn.

Heresay.....the best friend of the Right Wing Press.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

..............

Exactly the same way that the muslim people burning the large poppies was given network airtime ? didnt see very much of that on the news did we ? xxx Lois xxx "

No, we didn't see much of it but we saw enough to be sure it wasn't just a figment of somone's imagination.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Until we see footage of the alleged wreath burning yesterday it will remain anecdotal evidence.....which isn't worth a damn.

Heresay.....the best friend of the Right Wing Press.

I know I mentioned photographs (above) but I'd settle for a single mention of the supposed wreath burning incident in the press - Right Wing Press or anywhere else.

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By *acreadCouple
over a year ago

central scotland

I dare say a lot of these marches will get infiltratedby those who are hell bent on causing trouble but in the main most of the marchers want peacefull protest. You can see the burning of the poppies and also burning of the British flag and other anti British marches on the internet and as far as I am aware no prosecutions?

Just read about the 15 year old girl who burnt the Koran and posted it on a social network site and guess what ? she is being prosecuted for inciting religious hatred.

What a great country we live in.

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

The protest march was legal and in line with public gathering laws, the NUS provided stewards for the march after planning meetings with the Met.

What occured was a decision (from the very top....Theresa May?) to stop the march before the agreed rallying point, they then penned in these demonstrators for Five Hours and Forty minutes, up until that point there had been no violence or damage.

This 'Kettling' was in all likelyhood pre arranged with the Home Office, probably in order to antagonise the students....and for the government it had the desired effect....a few rushes and 'steaming' by officers in full riot gear would be certain to have the students up in arms.....and like idiots they played into the hands of Theresa May.

Now they have the public up in arms.....it's like the Miners Strike all over again for the Tories.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"did you know you can do a degree on the life of katie price.

im not making that up

Where?

well i was over stating the point a little for dramatic effect, but the degree in question is about her life and written works, and i believe its available at any uni"

So basicaly you were trotting out naff tabloid rubbish which is devised to make you angry with the people who are trying to make everyones life better so rupert murdoch and the rest of the weathy can maintain their power while the rest of us snipe back and forth at each other keeping us weak.......... (deep breath)

I hate the attitude that because maybe 1% of degrees are frivolous the rest of them are not worth supporting.

I agree that there are a lot of students who don't do much with their degree, but if you are under 30 or so and want to earn over £18k (outside london), these days you are gonna have to have a degree, plain and simple fact.

Sticking a huge bill up front is the wrong way to fund university education.

It's regresive and hits the poorest hardest as it takes a larger proportion of income from the poor than from the rich.

You make everyone with a degree pay an aditional 2-3% of income tax. If you have any loans from previous education, you get a remision or add the tax against loan payments. It would take a bit of money, but nowhere near like the outlay to fund the £27k per degree. As for staff, you can use the the current tuiton fees administrator.

That's a progresive action cos everyone pays the same amount.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"..................

That's a progresive action cos everyone pays the same amount."

People will say that adding a few percent to your tax bill to pay for your education will drive some people to leave the country.

I can live with that. The country is better of without that sort of person.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

off

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The protest march was legal and in line with public gathering laws, the NUS provided stewards for the march after planning meetings with the Met.

Now they have the public up in arms.....it's like the Miners Strike all over again for the Tories.

The protests almost all went realy well with lots of young people turning out.

I suspect the police used kettling because they got so much (undeserved) stick over the first protest and not enough (well deserved) praise for cleaning up their act after the G20 riots.

And I think you are right. Therisa May saw an opportunity to change the press coverage to an unfavourable one. And what did the press do? I think someone previously that the beeb stood out heroicaly again.......

worst thing about the whole stinking business of both the fees and now the handling of their legitimate protestsis is that we'll have another generation of cynical kids who hate politicians even more than we do

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By *heWolfMan
over a year ago

warwickshire

"I agree that there are a lot of students who don't do much with their degree, but if you are under 30 or so and want to earn over £18k (outside london), these days you are gonna have to have a degree, plain and simple fact.

Sticking a huge bill up front is the wrong way to fund university education.

It's regresive and hits the poorest hardest as it takes a larger proportion of income from the poor than from the rich."

Um, have I missed something, or isn't it the plan to get the graduates to re-pay the fees only when they start earning over £21K? How is that "sticking a huge bill up front"?

If they are stupid enough to choose a shit degree and only earn £12k per year, they won't have to pay back anything, happy days, "Thank you for your order, drive thru".

As for your "plain and simple fact", that is, with the greatest respect, a load of bollocks.

Here's a tip for someone under 30 who wants to earn way more than £18k (outside London) : Get yourself a trade, one which is in demand, one that people will pay you handsomely for.

I know plumbers and brickies who earn way more than £18k, and well, let's just say that some of them aren't the sharpest knives in the drawer. Someone who is genuinely bright can do very well for himself, very easily.

If you become a sparks, for example, you could do a RELEVANT degree once you have the basics, and you probably would never even have to wield a screwdriver on-site again.

Or, of course, you could believe the bullshit about the necessity of University, how it is the key to guaranteed success, and follow all the other graduates straight out into unemployment, despair, and a rude awakening.

Strangely enough, I'm not so bothered about funding a doctor or a rocket scientist with their degree, but some aimless little turd who is stupid enough to believe that a piece of paper; a degree, any degree, will be his passport to a life of loadsamoney without getting his hands dirty, because he's part of some sort of intellectual elite, well, he doesn't deserve any help.

Thank Mr Bliar and co for their insistence that more and more kids go on to University. Being the classic fuckwits that they are, they failed to appreciate that more graduates doesn't necessarily mean more rocket scientists, it simply devalues the meaning of the Degree. Mind you, that's them all over isn't it?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"did you know you can do a degree on the life of katie price.

im not making that up

Where?

well i was over stating the point a little for dramatic effect, but the degree in question is about her life and written works, and i believe its available at any uni

I hate the attitude that because maybe 1% of degrees are frivolous the rest of them are not worth supporting.

Sticking a huge bill up front is the wrong way to fund university education.

It's regresive and hits the poorest hardest as it takes a larger proportion of income from the poor than from the rich.

That's a progresive action cos everyone pays the same amount."

most of the people i know earn more than 18k and very few have a degree, in fact i know of some tradesmen that earn huge amounts some over 50k

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Sticking a huge bill up front is the wrong way to fund university education.

It's regresive and hits the poorest hardest as it takes a larger proportion of income from the poor than from the rich.

Um, have I missed something, or isn't it the plan to get the graduates to re-pay the fees only when they start earning over £21K? How is that "sticking a huge bill up front"?

If they are stupid enough to choose a shit degree and only earn £12k per year, they won't have to pay back anything, happy days, "Thank you for your order, drive thru".

As for your "plain and simple fact", that is, with the greatest respect, a load of bollocks.

Here's a tip for someone under 30 who wants to earn way more than £18k (outside London) : Get yourself a trade, one which is in demand, one that people will pay you handsomely for.

If you become a sparks, for example, you could do a RELEVANT degree once you have the basics, and you probably would never even have to wield a screwdriver on-site again.

So when you or a member of your family is dieing of cancer, you'd rather there was no one to help them provide care? Or would you rather that someone who gre up on a council estate forget all hopes of ever becoming a nurse?

I have said on previous posts that yes, there are a lot of tradesmen who ear a lot of money, but young apprenticships are hard to come by (I couldn't get one, though my brother was lucky enough to be aprenticed as an electrician), but as a general rule, if you aint got an education (which don't just mean a degree) .

Also I do think it's a little bit self defeating to worry about an 'intelectual' elite (which one does not need money to enter) when we are all happy to continue with the financial elite?

And PS I was studying a relevant degree (in transport and logistics engineering) when I decided I couldn't aford to carry on, whilst my middle class mates were having their fees paid for them by mummy and daddy.

The political and social selfishness of some people would make me laugh if it didn't make me so angry........Still, that's Thatchers children for you.

How many posters whinging about 'stupid idiot students' are happy to let the bankers fuck up the ecconomy and walk away with huge amounts of money in bonuses?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Paul Calf - Fucking students

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The protest march was legal and in line with public gathering laws, the NUS provided stewards for the march after planning meetings with the Met.

Now they have the public up in arms.....it's like the Miners Strike all over again for the Tories.

well put, can only agree.

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By *heWolfMan
over a year ago

warwickshire

"So when you or a member of your family is dieing of cancer, you'd rather there was no one to help them provide care? Or would you rather that someone who gre up on a council estate forget all hopes of ever becoming a nurse?

Also I do think it's a little bit self defeating to worry about an 'intelectual' elite (which one does not need money to enter) when we are all happy to continue with the financial elite?

The political and social selfishness of some people would make me laugh if it didn't make me so angry........Still, that's Thatchers children for you.

How many posters whinging about 'stupid idiot students' are happy to let the bankers fuck up the ecconomy and walk away with huge amounts of money in bonuses?"

Well, it would be lovely if everything was fair, that everyone was equal and no-one had the edge on anyone else. Unfortunately, life isn't like that, get over it. I'm sure there's room for you in North Korea if you don't like it here, it's probably the only state left enforcing such "fairness" on its people (excluding, of course, the Dear Leader and his cronies), now that the USSR and even China have dropped the pretence of the Communist ideal.

Here in the UK right now, there's nothing holding anyone back artificially, if someone has a spark of ambition, they can better themselves. No-one is condemned to life "dahn t'pit" or in Workhouse, all because of their lack of wealth or opportunity. Someone from a council estate can become a nurse quite easily IF THEY HAVE THE APTITUDE, but I don't see why I should fund everyone having a little go at University, just because Tarquin and Penelope from Poshtown get to go there regardless, with help from Mummy & Daddy.

If the council estate kid is a budding rocket scientist, he should get the chance to go and develop his talent with a Rocket Scientist degree, and fuck me, that's EXACTLY what he can do, right now! We (the taxpayers of this country) will even pay for it, on the understanding that when he starts earning Rocket Scientist wages, he puts some back in the kitty so that other council estate potential rocket scientists get their chance to go, because We (the taxpayers of this country) cannot afford to keep spunking cash on every single 18 year old who thinks we owe them 3 years of Countdown and subsidised beer, punctuated by the odd demonstration and vandalised police van, ultimately followed by them emerging blinking into the harshness of Real Life, with the realisation that their Eastenders Degree is worth fuck all to anyone.

But wait! Despite my little rant above, We (the taxpayers of this country) are STILL going to stump up the fees for them to go to University to study Phil Mitchell (despite the lack of apparent value to society), on the same understanding as for the Rocket Scientist, that they put some cash back in the kitty when they start earning over £21k as um, erm, Cockney Consultants or something. Even better than that, if they actually find that their Degree actually isn't a magic key to wealth and a glittering career, well, hey, We (the taxpayers of this country) aren't going to pursue them for OUR money back. Now, tell me what is unfair about that, because I'm fucked if I know, it sounds more than reasonable to me?

Rich man, poor man, in-between man, go to University, but when you reap the rewards, and only then, pay your way. Sounds pretty straightforward to me, no-one being excluded or discriminated against.

Let me ask you, would you have finished that degree if We (the taxpayers of this country) stumped up the fees up front for you, but you had to pay it back when you started earning £21k+? Or would you have whined, and protested that We (the taxpayers of this country) were trying to keep you down? Perhaps the social selfishness of which you speak includes people who want to keep ALL of their wages when they start to earn the sort of money they feel society owes them for their huge sacrifice in gaining that Degree, the wages they are ENTITLED to because, well, they are Graduates don't-you-know?

Perhaps We (the taxpayers of this country) should dig deeper in our pockets to allow more people to go to University free of charge, to get that all important piece of paper? (They could always go and see the Wizard of Oz, he'll give them a Diploma for free). Would society be any fairer, would this country be a better place to live?

Of course not, but it's easier to belly-ache and blame other people for the harsh fact that some people are going to be shithouse cleaners all their lives, and their kids will be shithouse cleaners too. Such is life, we can't all be bright-eyed boffins outperforming our forebears and climbing the social ladder unhindered. Even so, the shithouse cleaner probably has a 42" plasma screen to watch his Sky subscription on, such bleak times we live in.

Be it Mrs Thatcher, bankers, Jews, hybrid alien colonisers, whoever, there's always some other bastard who seems to have it in for some people, isn't there? Strange that.

RIGHT! FRIDAY NIGHT, I'VE TYPED A FUCKING ESSAY HERE, (NEARLY WORTH A DEGREE IN ITSELF), AND MORE IMPORTANTLY, WHY AM I NOT GETTING MY COCK SUCKED? It's all them Tories' fault....boo...hisss

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

funny enough talking about our beloved "police"... maybe this should get a bit more attention...

It seem's as if the commisoner lied yesterday when he said that the police never used horses to charge crowd.....

it seems as it the times and guardian correspondance who were there said they did!!!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/nov/26/student-protests-police-under-fire

so charging at peaceful protesting people including children....

maybe THAT is what we should be getting annoyed at since we still have no evidence of the wreath incident

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"........... Someone from a council estate can become a nurse quite easily IF THEY HAVE THE APTITUDE, ........................

That'd be fine if it were true but, from Sept 2013 just when tuition fees are due to be dramatically raised - despite pledges NOT to do that - "new entrants to the nursing profession will have to study a degree."

Source: NHS Careers website.

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

Also I do think it's a little bit self defeating to worry about an 'intelectual' elite (which one does not need money to enter) when we are all happy to continue with the financial elite?

The political and social selfishness of some people would make me laugh if it didn't make me so angry........Still, that's Thatchers children for you.

How many posters whinging about 'stupid idiot students' are happy to let the bankers fuck up the ecconomy and walk away with huge amounts of money in bonuses?

Rich man, poor man, in-between man, go to University, but when you reap the rewards, and only then, pay your way. Sounds pretty straightforward to me, no-one being excluded or discriminated against.

Be it Mrs Thatcher, bankers, Jews, hybrid alien colonisers, whoever, there's always some other bastard who seems to have it in for some people, isn't there? Strange that.

RIGHT! FRIDAY NIGHT, I'VE TYPED A FUCKING ESSAY HERE, (NEARLY WORTH A DEGREE IN ITSELF), AND MORE IMPORTANTLY, WHY AM I NOT GETTING MY COCK SUCKED? It's all them Tories' fault....boo...hisss

Wonderful rant wolf.... however you forget somethings in your moanings...

It the them, The students and tax payers of the future that will:

end up being the doctors and nurses for you in your old age...

end up being the teachers who will end up teaching your children,

end up looking after you in social care will probably end up being to people subsidising your state pensions ....

So before you keep taking about "we the taxpayer".... just remember what "you the taxpayer" are actually getting out of this deal, probably a lot more that you are aware off... and giving them a lot less credit than they deserve!!!

So if I was you, I'd have a bit more respect for those coming up behind you!, because I bet they will make you coming years a lot brighter than it would be otherwise

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Surely cant still be going on its friday night

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By *heWolfMan
over a year ago

warwickshire

"........... Someone from a council estate can become a nurse quite easily IF THEY HAVE THE APTITUDE, ........................

Source: NHS Careers website."

Thanks, I was unaware of that. However, the point I was trying to make concerned people from "council estates" primarily, rather than specifically those trying to become nurses, that was purely illustrative with reference to GeorgeyPorgey's post. Regardless, my point stands, that anyone with aptitude can excel, wherever they come from, it's bollocks to believe that someone living on a council estate is doomed to a life of Jeremy Kyle and dole cheques if these fees are introduced. That's an insult to those people who live in council estates IMHO.

Fabio, you misunderstand, I have every respect for those coming up behind me, it's in everyone's best interest for them to do well, to shoulder the tax burden when my generation retires, a growing tax burden at that. We (the taxpayers of this country) need to profit from our input into the education of others. All that I'm advocating is they pay back their fees when they start earning decent money.

Actually, I suppose I'll get my money's worth when the ones who do Media Studies are wiping my arse, working as assistant night wardens at Sunny View Retirement Home for the Bewildered and Incontinent. They'll be fucking wishing they'd thought their options through a bit more thoroughly when they realise they are looking at a lifetime of shitty arses for £15k a year, their degree will be, well, just arsewipe.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"........... Someone from a council estate can become a nurse quite easily IF THEY HAVE THE APTITUDE, ........................

Source: NHS Careers website.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

oops

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think people are missing out the fact that NOBODY has to find £9,000 per year BEFORE they begin a degree course as these fees are paid by the govt and you pay it back only when you start earning above £21,000.

So technically, anyone can apply for a university place, as they could before, but the selection process ought to be a lot tougher so that that those who think they can pass a degree but in reality cannot, are discouraged from wasting their money later.

Life isn't free and I see no reasson why taxpayers should foot the bill for someone they don't know who will then go on to earn a high salary. I won't see much of his wages, will I?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Well said !

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By *adja_lazloCouple
over a year ago

Solihull

there was riots in birmingham, just not as big as eleswhere

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By *adja_lazloCouple
over a year ago

Solihull

all in all, what the students did was wrong, end of the day it is crinimal damage, and anyone that was hurt in the riots, would have been assault, all criminal law, so arrest the lot of them

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"................

Life isn't free and I see no reasson why taxpayers should foot the bill for someone they don't know who will then go on to earn a high salary. I won't see much of his wages, will I?"

That's where we'll have to disagree on principle.

Some folks look at any given situation and immediately think 'What's in this for ME?'

The rest of us think 'What's in this for US?'

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"funny enough talking about our beloved "police"... maybe this should get a bit more attention...

It seem's as if the commisoner lied yesterday when he said that the police never used horses to charge crowd.....

it seems as it the times and guardian correspondance who were there said they did!!!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/nov/26/student-protests-police-under-fire

so charging at peaceful protesting people including children....

maybe THAT is what we should be getting annoyed at since we still have no evidence of the wreath incident"

I've had a chance to watch the home video in question and have to say I find it inconclusive. There's no doubt that mounted police are in the background heading across the screen at a rate of knots but it's impossible to tell what's going on around them.

I'll reserve judgement till I see a view from above.

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

The simple fact is that the police blocked the crowd (That included many children under the age of 18) into a space that was wholly inadequate for such a large gathering of protestors.

It was bitterly cold, yet still the police (under instructions from the very top) kept these students 'Kettled' in for getting on for Six Hours.

They were no longer in a position of moving towards Parliament, and also unable to disperse safely as they were blocked in from all sides by riot police.

After holding them for this ridiculous period of time in near freezing conditions they then sent in Police Horses, even though there was no where for them to escape to.

This could easily have proved fatal for many of the protestors, there could easily have been dozens of bodies lying on slabs in the morgue today because of these tactics.

Regarding the Two police vans damaged....did anyone else see the footage where the NEW Silver coloured riot vans are driven out of the area by the police....yet they 'accidentally' left the only two OLD style Transit police vans to be smashed up and burned?

One was an old '51 Reg van for fecks sake!

Orchestrated show of government power, much in the way it was used during the Miners strike and the Wapping protests.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What a load of tosh Jane. The police were hammered for not being prepared in the first riot and now they're being hammered for being ready for the second one.

Those students who found themselves 'kettled' had the opportunity to flee when the violence first broke out. Did they flee?

Did they hell. They stayed to see the outcome and got hemmed in by the police, who had little time to identify the rabble of rowdy rebels so it was a case of containment first, dispersal second.

I think the police did a brilliant job and they have my total support.

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By *b430Man
over a year ago

Tayside

"......

One was an old '51 Reg van for fecks sake!"

What has the age of a Police vehicle got to do with anything?

That has got to be one of the most irrelevant comments on this thread! They vandalised the vehicles and that's criminal damage pure and simple!

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

"......

One was an old '51 Reg van for fecks sake!

What has the age of a Police vehicle got to do with anything?

That has got to be one of the most irrelevant comments on this thread! They vandalised the vehicles and that's criminal damage pure and simple!

The relevance is in the fact that they were 'fed' the two old police vans to damage....look for yourself at the overhead recordings and how the latest Met Police vans (Silver in colour) were carefully driven away from the area when they started to kettle in the students.

Now note how they make no attempt to drive away the two very old police vans, in fact they leave one of them unlocked and make no attempt to remove it.

They knew damn well that after steaming into the students a few times they would retaliate, the vans were left there because they would so obviously be smashed up....all makes good police/government propoganda when they try to move a future White Paper through Psrliament to ban protest marches under emergency powers.

They did the self same thing after the Poll Tax riots....and after Wapping.

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

"What a load of tosh Jane. The police were hammered for not being prepared in the first riot and now they're being hammered for being ready for the second one.

Those students who found themselves 'kettled' had the opportunity to flee when the violence first broke out. Did they flee?

Did they hell. They stayed to see the outcome and got hemmed in by the police, who had little time to identify the rabble of rowdy rebels so it was a case of containment first, dispersal second.

I think the police did a brilliant job and they have my total support."

Actually Wishy the violence never started until the end of the Third Hour of 'containment'.....when there was no escape route left for the students.....that is what Kettling' is all about, it's a police tactic borrowed from German riot police.....leave no way of dispersement so that it inflames the protestors, that is the whole point.

They made no requests for the protestors to disperse....because they never wanted them to go anywhere.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Actually Wishy the violence never started until the end of the Third Hour of 'containment'.....when there was no escape route left for the students.....that is what Kettling' is all about, it's a police tactic borrowed from German riot police.....leave no way of dispersement so that it inflames the protestors, that is the whole point.

They made no requests for the protestors to disperse....because they never wanted them to go anywhere."

Yes, of course. The police were up for it in retaliation of getting a bloody nose in Round 1 eh?

They deliberately set out to antagonise students and children into wrecking police vehicles, starting fires and smashing windows. Of course they did.

You need to wake up and smell the roses Jane. A public riot look bad for the coalition and that's all you see.

You don't see the yobs who committed wanton destruction of TAXPAYER owned, funded and maintained buildings and vehicles, ?you don't mention the army of cleaners who have to go in and chemically remove all the graffiti sprayed across buildings in our nation's capital and the cleaners who have to go in a remove all the debris.

You make no mention of any of that do you.

They were jumped up little scrotes mainly who got what they deserved, and I hope that the government doesn't capitulate and give them the free uni degrees they're demanding cos that's MY money they are wasting on their stupid demos and it'll be MY money they'll be pissing up the wall in 3-4 years of uni.

If they want a degree, let them pay for it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Aaron Porter, the National Union of Students President who got the mood of his members so badly wrong, is to stand down.

Another one bites the dust

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