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"BBC2 now. Should children learn to pass tests, learn how to learn or be encouraged to be free-thinking and creative? " Maybe as with any rhetorical question posed by the media, the truth is somewhere in between | |||
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"BBC2 now. Should children learn to pass tests, learn how to learn or be encouraged to be free-thinking and creative? Maybe as with any rhetorical question posed by the media, the truth is somewhere in between " To be fair to the media, I have posed the rhetorical question in this way. | |||
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"Gove's wonderful new curriculum says they have to do both - learn to play the game and play the game, as we do in life ..." We've only recently introduced low level programming to schools. ICT has been teaching them to use a word processor for such a long time. Speaking to a technology industry leader at a conference a few years back he explained that they import staff with ICT skills as our young people know how to play, can conceptualise but then can't turn the concept into anything. | |||
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"Knowledge for the sake of knowledge enhances a person in so many ways. The purpose of an examination is either to gain the key to another examination or to gain access to a job. For me i like knowing a little about a lot rather than knowing a lot about a little. One is a life skill whilst the other is a job skill" Encouraging curiosity is important but I think hard skills are needed too. | |||
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" Speaking to a technology industry leader at a conference a few years back he explained that they import staff with ICT skills as our young people know how to play, can conceptualise but then can't turn the concept into anything. " Sorry didn't follow that last sentence, could you elaborate please? | |||
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" Speaking to a technology industry leader at a conference a few years back he explained that they import staff with ICT skills as our young people know how to play, can conceptualise but then can't turn the concept into anything. Sorry didn't follow that last sentence, could you elaborate please? " Our young people can play console/app games, they can think up new games but they don't know how to turn their ideas into a game. It's a huge industry and we are leaders in game design but we have to import the skills to realise the product. | |||
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"Having lectured at university level i can honestly say a fair number of the overseas students can not cope very well in our universities. Dont get me wrong, they can memorise word for word an dictionary over night, However, if they are given a something theoretical and made to apply or innovate, they struggle to adapt. This isnt good if when they go into a commercial environment. I think what we are doing is good, but at the same time, we can improve by removing a lot of red tape. " I agree, I have worked in a university too and saw fee paying foreign students failing because they could not self-direct their learning. They stuck to the reading list and wanted more tests. | |||
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"Having lectured at university level i can honestly say a fair number of the overseas students can not cope very well in our universities. Dont get me wrong, they can memorise word for word an dictionary over night, However, if they are given a something theoretical and made to apply or innovate, they struggle to adapt. This isnt good if when they go into a commercial environment. I think what we are doing is good, but at the same time, we can improve by removing a lot of red tape. I agree, I have worked in a university too and saw fee paying foreign students failing because they could not self-direct their learning. They stuck to the reading list and wanted more tests. " What really grates on me is that since they are paying a substantial amount more than the UK students, they feel they are owed a degree. If they are willing to help themselves I work to help them. Ive been known to stay with the up to 11pm just to help them through. But ive failed a few for just not giving a damn. | |||
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"Do governments actually want to educate children! Nearly every teacher starts out with the Nobelist of intentions, there's only so many times you can, change, move, start again, move, change, rename, start again... Before you go mental with medaling fucking department bollocks (her words... I added the fucking), in fact if it wasn't for seeing your fruition of hard work come through, you'd have quit years ago! My wife works in education It's a love hate relationship every day She loves it She hates it She loves it Don't even start me off on her "holidays" "I gave up being a school governor (primary and secondary) because of the many, many changes. No need to explain the myth that is pushed about the holidays to me. | |||
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"Doesn't matter if the work ethic is not there." How do we put that in? | |||
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" No need to explain the myth that is pushed about the holidays to me. " Then i shan't  | |||
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"Having lectured at university level i can honestly say a fair number of the overseas students can not cope very well in our universities. Dont get me wrong, they can memorise word for word an dictionary over night, However, if they are given a something theoretical and made to apply or innovate, they struggle to adapt. This isnt good if when they go into a commercial environment. I think what we are doing is good, but at the same time, we can improve by removing a lot of red tape. I agree, I have worked in a university too and saw fee paying foreign students failing because they could not self-direct their learning. They stuck to the reading list and wanted more tests. What really grates on me is that since they are paying a substantial amount more than the UK students, they feel they are owed a degree. If they are willing to help themselves I work to help them. Ive been known to stay with the up to 11pm just to help them through. But ive failed a few for just not giving a damn. " Where I was created a separate programme. That was in the days of plenty (relatively) 30 years ago though. | |||
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" Speaking to a technology industry leader at a conference a few years back he explained that they import staff with ICT skills as our young people know how to play, can conceptualise but then can't turn the concept into anything. Sorry didn't follow that last sentence, could you elaborate please? Our young people can play console/app games, they can think up new games but they don't know how to turn their ideas into a game. It's a huge industry and we are leaders in game design but we have to import the skills to realise the product. " Ok seems a reasonable generalisation. Not sure how much better or worse other cultures are for that though. The only subject I was ever interested in studying was business and I remember looking around the lecture hall at my ~350 classmates and thinking "those of you that got a 1st are not the ones who are going on to big things" | |||
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"Doesn't matter if the work ethic is not there. How do we put that in? " Unfortunately, work ethic is something that is instilled into you from a young age, or from shear determination and drive. If a kid has the drive the effort is always going to be there. | |||
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"Doesn't matter if the work ethic is not there. How do we put that in? Unfortunately, work ethic is something that is instilled into you from a young age, or from shear determination and drive. If a kid has the drive the effort is always going to be there. " Disagree. I went to a school where bad behaviour was the norm and the teachers never really expected homework to be done - so I acted accordingly. The I changed schools and frankly the teachers didn't stand for my bullshit and my new classmates didn't see anything cool about skipping homework - so I modified my behaviour. I think people respond to incentives rather than having a fixed attitude from an early age. | |||
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"I found that interesting. I know how this has been presented is to a script and it's all in the edit but I'll follow through next week. " Agree. Interesting to follow. | |||
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"Having lectured at university level i can honestly say a fair number of the overseas students can not cope very well in our universities. Dont get me wrong, they can memorise word for word an dictionary over night, However, if they are given a something theoretical and made to apply or innovate, they struggle to adapt. This isnt good if when they go into a commercial environment. I think what we are doing is good, but at the same time, we can improve by removing a lot of red tape. I agree, I have worked in a university too and saw fee paying foreign students failing because they could not self-direct their learning. They stuck to the reading list and wanted more tests. What really grates on me is that since they are paying a substantial amount more than the UK students, they feel they are owed a degree. If they are willing to help themselves I work to help them. Ive been known to stay with the up to 11pm just to help them through. But ive failed a few for just not giving a damn. " Unconscious bias training.. You need it | |||
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"I found that interesting. I know how this has been presented is to a script and it's all in the edit but I'll follow through next week. " The disrespect and rudeness the kids showed to the teachers surprised me. Yes it's a very different way of doing things to what they're used to but and yes they're used to more interaction but so many of them just carried on regardless of the teacher! Have things changed so much since I was at school? Was my school particularly strict? Have kids today got no manners at all? | |||
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"BBC2 now. Should children learn to pass tests, learn how to learn or be encouraged to be free-thinking and creative? " Whatever they learn - if there's a test then the pass mark for a C grade should be significantly above 34% and well above 60% for a friggin A ! 
A | |||
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"I found that interesting. I know how this has been presented is to a script and it's all in the edit but I'll follow through next week. The disrespect and rudeness the kids showed to the teachers surprised me. Yes it's a very different way of doing things to what they're used to but and yes they're used to more interaction but so many of them just carried on regardless of the teacher! Have things changed so much since I was at school? Was my school particularly strict? Have kids today got no manners at all?" Yes, things have changed a lot and I have seen classes worse than that one but I have also seen better. I have had conversations with the kids who don't understand standing when someone enters the room (as we had to when I was at school) and I've had conversations with teachers who struggle to control a class. The programme is a school in Hampshire so it's not even what might be considered as the hard-core inner city sink school scenario. | |||
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"BBC2 now. Should children learn to pass tests, learn how to learn or be encouraged to be free-thinking and creative? Whatever they learn - if there's a test then the pass mark for a C grade should be significantly above 34% and well above 60% for a friggin A !
A"I agree, an A should be closer to 80% than 60% | |||
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"BBC2 now. Should children learn to pass tests, learn how to learn or be encouraged to be free-thinking and creative? Whatever they learn - if there's a test then the pass mark for a C grade should be significantly above 34% and well above 60% for a friggin A !
A
I agree, an A should be closer to 80% than 60%"It was when I was at school. How can you get 66% of questions wrong and get a C ? 
When I took my A levels you had to get 40% just to get an E
How anyone has any confidence in exam results these days is beyond me.
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"BBC2 now. Should children learn to pass tests, learn how to learn or be encouraged to be free-thinking and creative? Whatever they learn - if there's a test then the pass mark for a C grade should be significantly above 34% and well above 60% for a friggin A !
A
I agree, an A should be closer to 80% than 60%"Correct me if I'm wrong but more focus is placed on course work,as opposed to just an exam. This may explain why an average exam mark can be raised in conjunction with the course work ? | |||
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"BBC2 now. Should children learn to pass tests, learn how to learn or be encouraged to be free-thinking and creative? Whatever they learn - if there's a test then the pass mark for a C grade should be significantly above 34% and well above 60% for a friggin A !
A
I agree, an A should be closer to 80% than 60%
Correct me if I'm wrong but more focus is placed on course work,as opposed to just an exam. This may explain why an average exam mark can be raised in conjunction with the course work ? "This was a maths exam in Scotland. I doubt there was a high coursework content. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-33760350 A | |||
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"BBC2 now. Should children learn to pass tests, learn how to learn or be encouraged to be free-thinking and creative? " It much depends on what will be of value to them at a later date. Gathering knowledge and evaluating it, without understanding how to apply it, simply doesn't make any sense to me. If anything, they should be encouraged to reflect on themselves, their actions and those around them. | |||
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"Which channel? " BBC 2 | |||
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"Getting the children to clean their classroom at the end of the day would be a really useful way of instilling a sense of respect for their environment. " IA and a feeling of personal responsibility. | |||
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"Getting the children to clean their classroom at the end of the day would be a really useful way of instilling a sense of respect for their environment. IA and a feeling of personal responsibility. " It's not Chinese and Japanese schools that expect this of their children. It's really sad watching this. The glimmer of hope is that the children did behave for the head and other teacher. | |||
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"Different I know, but I did a course on how to teach kids how to play football. One of the attendees said his boys were really badly behaved and if the teacher had any tips. His response......you have to look at yourself. If the way you are teaching them is boring, uninspiring and tedious they will misbehave. Watching the programme I found the lessons to be less than engaging and maybe explained why the kids got bored. There should always be respect for teachers, but I also think that any learning should be fun and interesting rather than dull and repetitive." Sort of agree but to be fair to the teachers alot of the syllabus is boring! I see the kids asking the same questions I did "Errr miss, not trying to be disruptive but for the life of me I can't think where 99% of the population will ever use trigonometry in their jobs?" - ummm that's because they don't and that's why it's inherently boring. Sure, an epic teacher can put lipstick on a turd, but it's still a turd. | |||
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"Doesn't matter if the work ethic is not there. How do we put that in? " Protestantism, ostensibly. | |||
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"Doesn't matter if the work ethic is not there. How do we put that in? Protestantism, ostensibly. " Go Quaker or go home!  | |||
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"Different I know, but I did a course on how to teach kids how to play football. One of the attendees said his boys were really badly behaved and if the teacher had any tips. His response......you have to look at yourself. If the way you are teaching them is boring, uninspiring and tedious they will misbehave. Watching the programme I found the lessons to be less than engaging and maybe explained why the kids got bored. There should always be respect for teachers, but I also think that any learning should be fun and interesting rather than dull and repetitive." The point o the experiment is to reach in the boring Chinese way. We say we want the same exam levels as countries such as China but their methods are to teach in a boring, input only way. There must be a middle ground but it's not possible to get the paper achievements of qualifications these countries get without the rigid obedience and input only style. We have to learn to value the liberal arts base style of our learning systems too. | |||
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"Different I know, but I did a course on how to teach kids how to play football. One of the attendees said his boys were really badly behaved and if the teacher had any tips. His response......you have to look at yourself. If the way you are teaching them is boring, uninspiring and tedious they will misbehave. Watching the programme I found the lessons to be less than engaging and maybe explained why the kids got bored. There should always be respect for teachers, but I also think that any learning should be fun and interesting rather than dull and repetitive. The point o the experiment is to reach in the boring Chinese way. We say we want the same exam levels as countries such as China but their methods are to teach in a boring, input only way. There must be a middle ground but it's not possible to get the paper achievements of qualifications these countries get without the rigid obedience and input only style. We have to learn to value the liberal arts base style of our learning systems too." Academic qualifications are important, but I view them like a passport. They can get you through doors and then it is about personality, social interaction and ability to contribute. I hate seeing parents believing that all that is important are grades on a piece of paper. Life is so much more important than that. | |||
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"Different I know, but I did a course on how to teach kids how to play football. One of the attendees said his boys were really badly behaved and if the teacher had any tips. His response......you have to look at yourself. If the way you are teaching them is boring, uninspiring and tedious they will misbehave. Watching the programme I found the lessons to be less than engaging and maybe explained why the kids got bored. There should always be respect for teachers, but I also think that any learning should be fun and interesting rather than dull and repetitive. The point o the experiment is to reach in the boring Chinese way. We say we want the same exam levels as countries such as China but their methods are to teach in a boring, input only way. There must be a middle ground but it's not possible to get the paper achievements of qualifications these countries get without the rigid obedience and input only style. We have to learn to value the liberal arts base style of our learning systems too. Academic qualifications are important, but I view them like a passport. They can get you through doors and then it is about personality, social interaction and ability to contribute. I hate seeing parents believing that all that is important are grades on a piece of paper. Life is so much more important than that." We are judging the whole success of our academic system on the passport, and writing off young people who do not have the aptitude to achieve those bits of paper, regardless of other skills and talents. A successful school is deemed to be the one that does best at getting the qualifications. If that's the success criteria then embracing the Chinese system should work. | |||
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"Different I know, but I did a course on how to teach kids how to play football. One of the attendees said his boys were really badly behaved and if the teacher had any tips. His response......you have to look at yourself. If the way you are teaching them is boring, uninspiring and tedious they will misbehave. Watching the programme I found the lessons to be less than engaging and maybe explained why the kids got bored. There should always be respect for teachers, but I also think that any learning should be fun and interesting rather than dull and repetitive. The point o the experiment is to reach in the boring Chinese way. We say we want the same exam levels as countries such as China but their methods are to teach in a boring, input only way. There must be a middle ground but it's not possible to get the paper achievements of qualifications these countries get without the rigid obedience and input only style. We have to learn to value the liberal arts base style of our learning systems too. Academic qualifications are important, but I view them like a passport. They can get you through doors and then it is about personality, social interaction and ability to contribute. I hate seeing parents believing that all that is important are grades on a piece of paper. Life is so much more important than that. We are judging the whole success of our academic system on the passport, and writing off young people who do not have the aptitude to achieve those bits of paper, regardless of other skills and talents. A successful school is deemed to be the one that does best at getting the qualifications. If that's the success criteria then embracing the Chinese system should work. " I hope we don't end up going that way. No system is perfect, and I'm sure ours can be improved, but creating a generation of boring clones who are good at exams would lead to a much duller place in my humble opinion. | |||
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"Different I know, but I did a course on how to teach kids how to play football. One of the attendees said his boys were really badly behaved and if the teacher had any tips. His response......you have to look at yourself. If the way you are teaching them is boring, uninspiring and tedious they will misbehave. Watching the programme I found the lessons to be less than engaging and maybe explained why the kids got bored. There should always be respect for teachers, but I also think that any learning should be fun and interesting rather than dull and repetitive. The point o the experiment is to reach in the boring Chinese way. We say we want the same exam levels as countries such as China but their methods are to teach in a boring, input only way. There must be a middle ground but it's not possible to get the paper achievements of qualifications these countries get without the rigid obedience and input only style. We have to learn to value the liberal arts base style of our learning systems too. Academic qualifications are important, but I view them like a passport. They can get you through doors and then it is about personality, social interaction and ability to contribute. I hate seeing parents believing that all that is important are grades on a piece of paper. Life is so much more important than that. We are judging the whole success of our academic system on the passport, and writing off young people who do not have the aptitude to achieve those bits of paper, regardless of other skills and talents. A successful school is deemed to be the one that does best at getting the qualifications. If that's the success criteria then embracing the Chinese system should work. I hope we don't end up going that way. No system is perfect, and I'm sure ours can be improved, but creating a generation of boring clones who are good at exams would lead to a much duller place in my humble opinion." I agree, which is why I get angry at the regular statement that our children and young people are failing compared to those in China and Singapore. The A Level results are due this week so the annual round of it "it was much harder in my day" will begin. | |||
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"I don't really understand the problem. This was how *alot* of my courses were taught at school - only 15 years ago. And it's how my History of Art degree is largely taught. Mind you, there are some real shitbags on my course, and looking at this programme I can see why some of them have the attitudes that they have. Honestly, some of them can't manage to sit for more than about an hour without a 15 minute break. It's crazy, and utterly infuriating when you realise you're effectively paying over £40 an hour for the lecture." Must be annoying sitting with people who have the attention span of a gnat! | |||
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"I don't really understand the problem. This was how *alot* of my courses were taught at school - only 15 years ago. And it's how my History of Art degree is largely taught. Mind you, there are some real shitbags on my course, and looking at this programme I can see why some of them have the attitudes that they have. Honestly, some of them can't manage to sit for more than about an hour without a 15 minute break. It's crazy, and utterly infuriating when you realise you're effectively paying over £40 an hour for the lecture. Must be annoying sitting with people who have the attention span of a gnat! " In a single two hour lecture, the girl sitting next to me sent 42 snapchat selfies. | |||
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"I don't really understand the problem. This was how *alot* of my courses were taught at school - only 15 years ago. And it's how my History of Art degree is largely taught. Mind you, there are some real shitbags on my course, and looking at this programme I can see why some of them have the attitudes that they have. Honestly, some of them can't manage to sit for more than about an hour without a 15 minute break. It's crazy, and utterly infuriating when you realise you're effectively paying over £40 an hour for the lecture. Must be annoying sitting with people who have the attention span of a gnat! In a single two hour lecture, the girl sitting next to me sent 42 snapchat selfies." Good Lord! Is this the modern equivalent of doodling?
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"I don't really understand the problem. This was how *alot* of my courses were taught at school - only 15 years ago. And it's how my History of Art degree is largely taught. Mind you, there are some real shitbags on my course, and looking at this programme I can see why some of them have the attitudes that they have. Honestly, some of them can't manage to sit for more than about an hour without a 15 minute break. It's crazy, and utterly infuriating when you realise you're effectively paying over £40 an hour for the lecture. Must be annoying sitting with people who have the attention span of a gnat! In a single two hour lecture, the girl sitting next to me sent 42 snapchat selfies. Good Lord! Is this the modern equivalent of doodling?
"Lol - the phrase good grief springs to mind! | |||
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"I don't really understand the problem. This was how *alot* of my courses were taught at school - only 15 years ago. And it's how my History of Art degree is largely taught. Mind you, there are some real shitbags on my course, and looking at this programme I can see why some of them have the attitudes that they have. Honestly, some of them can't manage to sit for more than about an hour without a 15 minute break. It's crazy, and utterly infuriating when you realise you're effectively paying over £40 an hour for the lecture. Must be annoying sitting with people who have the attention span of a gnat! In a single two hour lecture, the girl sitting next to me sent 42 snapchat selfies. Good Lord! Is this the modern equivalent of doodling?
"Doodling never made me want to stab someone in the side of the head with a pen. | |||
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"I don't really understand the problem. This was how *alot* of my courses were taught at school - only 15 years ago. And it's how my History of Art degree is largely taught. Mind you, there are some real shitbags on my course, and looking at this programme I can see why some of them have the attitudes that they have. Honestly, some of them can't manage to sit for more than about an hour without a 15 minute break. It's crazy, and utterly infuriating when you realise you're effectively paying over £40 an hour for the lecture. Must be annoying sitting with people who have the attention span of a gnat! In a single two hour lecture, the girl sitting next to me sent 42 snapchat selfies. Good Lord! Is this the modern equivalent of doodling?
Doodling never made me want to stab someone in the side of the head with a pen."I guess that would constitute art of a sort?? | |||
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"The Chinese teacher has recognised that the Chinese way of teaching kills imagination and critical thinking. Brilliant! I am so glad she said it rather than it coming from the British teachers. " I found even university too prescriptive. | |||
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"The Chinese teacher has recognised that the Chinese way of teaching kills imagination and critical thinking. Brilliant! I am so glad she said it rather than it coming from the British teachers. I found even university too prescriptive. " You'd struggle with Chinese school then. The slightly OCD ones like it though. | |||
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"The Chinese teacher has recognised that the Chinese way of teaching kills imagination and critical thinking. Brilliant! I am so glad she said it rather than it coming from the British teachers. I found even university too prescriptive. You'd struggle with Chinese school then. The slightly OCD ones like it though. " All my pens are facing the same way, I feel I am ready! | |||
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