FabSwingers.com forum: Edward Heath

By *bfoxxx OP Man
over a year ago

Crete or LANCASTER

Child sex abuse claims / cover up.

I can't say it's a total surprise.

If there's any truth in it, it should have come to light sooner.

What good will it do now? He's been dead for years.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

Where did you source it from?

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

"Where did you source it from?"

The news has just announced it

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-33755726

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"Where did you source it from?

The news has just announced it"

Ty..

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

"Child sex abuse claims / cover up.

I can't say it's a total surprise.

If there's any truth in it, it should have come to light sooner.

What good will it do now? He's been dead for years."

I think they are investigating the police force which involved allegations about him.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"Child sex abuse claims / cover up.

I can't say it's a total surprise.

If there's any truth in it, it should have come to light sooner.

What good will it do now? He's been dead for years."

It may do some good for anyone who has hidden or lived with abuse for many years..

other will have learnt to cope with that and yet again others have taken their own lives because of the same..

too many victims have been ignored for too long..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Well its news to the media but not news to anyone who has an interest in the subject. Not only is there evidence of abuse but also children who have gone missing. some believe from his yacht and dumped over board.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

Eventually every dead person who's well known will find themselves accused of something they can't defend themselves about.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Haute de la garenne childrens home on Jersey.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Child sex abuse claims / cover up.

I can't say it's a total surprise.

If there's any truth in it, it should have come to light sooner.

What good will it do now? He's been dead for years."

It did come to light sooner.And it was covered up.

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By *iewMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Angus & Findhorn

I will wait until it has been investigated fully before any comment.

I didn't know the man

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By *at69driveMan
over a year ago

Hertford

"Child sex abuse claims / cover up.

I can't say it's a total surprise.

If there's any truth in it, it should have come to light sooner.

What good will it do now? He's been dead for years."
As there are so many witchhunts on this topic , this news is probably best ignored unless any positive confirmations come tonight ..I prefer not to base my opinions on heresay and ambulance chasing solicitors ..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Our family dog went missing in the late 70's. Is there any likelihood of getting some compo?

ps it couldn't swim.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No doubt there'll be an advert, oops appeal put out for victims.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Haute de la garenne childrens home on Jersey."
.

There's a guy that's been campaigning about the abuse from high level figures from there for years(for the life of me I can't think of his name) but I remember seeing him at a rally in London several years ago

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Haute de la garenne childrens home on Jersey..

"And that Your Honour concludes the evidence from the prosecution."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

the compensation excuse is a paedophile defence

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By *iewMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Angus & Findhorn

"the compensation excuse is a paedophile defence

or a wrongly accused's nightmare

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"the compensation excuse is a paedophile defence

or a wrongly accused's nightmare"

Anyone got any evidence of compensation being paid to anyone ?

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By *iewMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Angus & Findhorn

"the compensation excuse is a paedophile defence

or a wrongly accused's nightmare

Anyone got any evidence of compensation being paid to anyone ?"

I doubt people on a swingers site will be close enough to be able to give the facts of that.

Too much tittle tattle

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"the compensation excuse is a paedophile defence

or a wrongly accused's nightmare

Anyone got any evidence of compensation being paid to anyone ?

I doubt people on a swingers site will be close enough to be able to give the facts of that.

Too much tittle tattle"

how do you claim compensation from a dead man ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

David Icke was saying this for years , just enter a search on Youtube

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By *iewMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Angus & Findhorn

"the compensation excuse is a paedophile defence

or a wrongly accused's nightmare

Anyone got any evidence of compensation being paid to anyone ?

I doubt people on a swingers site will be close enough to be able to give the facts of that.

Too much tittle tattle

how do you claim compensation from a dead man ?

I have no idea... I never raised it

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" David Icke was saying this for years , just enter a search on Youtube "

what david icke was saying some kids have been sexually abused ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"the compensation excuse is a paedophile defence

or a wrongly accused's nightmare

Anyone got any evidence of compensation being paid to anyone ?

I doubt people on a swingers site will be close enough to be able to give the facts of that.

Too much tittle tattle

how do you claim compensation from a dead man ?

I have no idea... I never raised it "

troll off youre blocked.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"the compensation excuse is a paedophile defence

or a wrongly accused's nightmare

Anyone got any evidence of compensation being paid to anyone ?"

Wasn't there someone in the J King case who said he got compensation, in advance.

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By *iewMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Angus & Findhorn

"the compensation excuse is a paedophile defence

or a wrongly accused's nightmare

Anyone got any evidence of compensation being paid to anyone ?

I doubt people on a swingers site will be close enough to be able to give the facts of that.

Too much tittle tattle

how do you claim compensation from a dead man ?

I have no idea... I never raised it

troll off you're blocked."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"the compensation excuse is a paedophile defence

or a wrongly accused's nightmare

Anyone got any evidence of compensation being paid to anyone ?

Wasn't there someone in the J King case who said he got compensation, in advance. "

is that your evidence. of course no children have ever been sexually abused raped murdered. like women arent. Everyone as we all know lies about that stuff for money.

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By *arehamMan
over a year ago

handforth

True total waste of money what's the point,you cannot dig him up to tell him off for being a naughty boy.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Haute de la garenne childrens home on Jersey..

"And that Your Honour concludes the evidence from the prosecution."

"
.

Notice how I didn't say I took his words for granted.

I just happened to remember a chap I saw at a rally that was campaigning for fresh investigations into haute de la garenne, and that was before I'd ever heard of the place in the news!.

Wish I could remember his name as I've seen him a few times since including a rally against rape in London.

If death or old age excludes you from being held responsible for crimes, then somebody better tell the Jewish Nazi hunters!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" David Icke was saying this for years , just enter a search on Youtube "
...Or google..Pie and Mash film's.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"the compensation excuse is a paedophile defence

or a wrongly accused's nightmare

Anyone got any evidence of compensation being paid to anyone ?

Wasn't there someone in the J King case who said he got compensation, in advance.

is that your evidence. of course no children have ever been sexually abused raped murdered. like women arent. Everyone as we all know lies about that stuff for money.

No. Wasn't it reported from being said in the witness box by the Man himself. Basically, along these lines :

"Did you ever receive payment (compensation) from Mr JK?"

"Yes, £20 for sucking him off."

"And how often did this abuse take place?"

"Oh, about twice a week for two and a half years."

The detail may not be precise but the gist is.

Am i terrible for laughing at the last line, then and now?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Haute de la garenne childrens home on Jersey..

"And that Your Honour concludes the evidence from the prosecution."

Notice how I didn't say I took his words for granted.

I just happened to remember a chap I saw at a rally that was campaigning for fresh investigations into haute de la garenne, and that was before I'd ever heard of the place in the news!.

Wish I could remember his name as I've seen him a few times since including a rally against rape in London.

If death or old age excludes you from being held responsible for crimes, then somebody better tell the Jewish Nazi hunters!"

Notice that i'm not taking this thread too seriously, if at all?

See my previous post for not remembering verbatim.

Keep up with yer campaigning.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

On a poltical note, would it be a little ironic if the current labour leader had allegedly been swapping her skills for paedophile's (PIE) cash at the same time as Edward Heath was allegedly sailing a bit close to the wind?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" David Icke was saying this for years , just enter a search on Youtube ...Or google..Pie and Mash film's."

Dont listen to bill maloney from pie n mash films he has an agenda that isnt what it appears to be.

he did a film on haut de la garrenne which is complete bollox. This doesnt alter the fact that many people reported abuse there, children disappeared, there was a police investigation that found evidence for the case of abuse and murder. the cop investigating was then discredited and someone took over who said there was no case.

At the end of the day there are still many people claiming to be victims of institutional abuse at haut de la garrene.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" David Icke was saying this for years , just enter a search on Youtube ...Or google..Pie and Mash film's.

Dont listen to bill maloney from pie n mash films he has an agenda that isnt what it appears to be.

At the end of the day there are still many people claiming to be victims of institutional abuse at haut de la garrene."

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By *bfoxxx OP Man
over a year ago

Crete or LANCASTER

"True total waste of money what's the point,you cannot dig him up to tell him off for being a naughty boy.

No but hopefully lessons can be learnt, and was there a high level cover-up?

Who knows?

Maggie wouldn't have wanted the Tory brand tarnished.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Maggie was too busy having dinner with Saville

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

"Well its news to the media but not news to anyone who has an interest in the subject. Not only is there evidence of abuse but also children who have gone missing. some believe from his yacht and dumped over board.

The newspapers say that an investigation is underway.

As yet he is NOT guilty of anything.

Say now what evidence there is that he abused children. I mean EVIDENCE not gossip.

Also - say which people believe which children were dumped from 'his' yacht.

It's all too easy to come online and spread rumours.

If he's found guilty so be it but until then it doesn't help with all the unfounded shite that goes around.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The newspapers say that an investigation is underway.

As yet he is NOT guilty of anything.

Say now what evidence there is that he abused children. I mean EVIDENCE not gossip.

Also - say which people believe which children were dumped from 'his' yacht.

It's all too easy to come online and spread rumours.

If he's found guilty so be it but until then it doesn't help with all the unfounded shite that goes around."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Everybody do your homework its been over the net for years naming these people check out bill maloney hes campaigning for these people to be charged if its been over the net for years and they have never sued their acusers funny that isnt it

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By *entleBeastMan
over a year ago

carshalton

This has been common knowledge for years, it's not rumour or conjecture. LB was another one at it all the time with kids. Even Maggie T knew about it and did nothing.... These people need to be vilified and exposed at what they were. Dead or alive

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The newspapers say that an investigation is underway.

As yet he is NOT guilty of anything.

Say now what evidence there is that he abused children. I mean EVIDENCE not gossip.

Also - say which people believe which children were dumped from 'his' yacht.

It's all too easy to come online and spread rumours.

If he's found guilty so be it but until then it doesn't help with all the unfounded shite that goes around."
.

He's guilty of being a Tory and a rather shit one at that!.

I think the allegations at the moment are not on Ted heath but aimed at the police failing to investigate compliants against him properly!.

This obviously leads people to put 2+2=5.

That said Jimmy savilles case showed that some people got distinctly protected by higher powers!

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

Yeah, I'm not convinced of this story - there is now pressure to investigate *anything* from that period and, as a 'confirmed bachelor' Heath attracted some gossip.

But it's the kinda shit Private Eye would have been all over and I don't remember hearing anything - not the way they treated Cyril Smith, for instance.

Innocent until proven guilty, anyone?

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By *onnie and JohnCouple
over a year ago

andover

hi all take a read on exaronews .

http://www.exaronews.com/

connie x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Well said that person check out exaro news

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"This has been common knowledge for years, it's not rumour or conjecture. LB was another one at it all the time with kids. Even Maggie T knew about it and did nothing.... These people need to be vilified and exposed at what they were. Dead or alive "

Ah yes, the old my mates friend knows this bloke who met some fella down the pub who said...

sorry until its evidence tested as per the law which i would expect for you and me its rumour and conjecture..

and rumour and conjecture sometimes lead to innocent people who look a bit different getting a kicking..

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

Innocent until proven guilty, anyone?"

This...

Why are some people only to happy for others to be treated as per a lesser standard of due process etc than that which they would scream blue bloody murder about where it them or their own..

baffling..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Check out bill maloney and listen to the abused

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

Innocent until proven guilty, anyone?

This...

Why are some people only to happy for others to be treated as per a lesser standard of due process etc than that which they would scream blue bloody murder about where it them or their own..

baffling.."

I'm afraid you have to demand the same basic rights for the worst scum that *you* would expect in a similar position.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

Innocent until proven guilty, anyone?

This...

Why are some people only to happy for others to be treated as per a lesser standard of due process etc than that which they would scream blue bloody murder about where it them or their own..

baffling..

I'm afraid you have to demand the same basic rights for the worst scum that *you* would expect in a similar position."

agreed, its part of that which separates us from being an uncivilised mob..

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

"Eventually every dead person who's well known will find themselves accused of something they can't defend themselves about."

Especially if there's possibilities of money.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I really dont believe some peoples comments if it happened to you or a member of your family you would want justice everybody thinks the establishment dosnt lie to us get a life read the establishment by owen jones it might open your eyes they have to be ivestegated

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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago

Derby

"Eventually every dead person who's well known will find themselves accused of something they can't defend themselves about."

And very many of them, no doubt, will have been protected from investigation and prosecution while they were alive.

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

"I really dont believe some peoples comments if it happened to you or a member of your family you would want justice everybody thinks the establishment dosnt lie to us get a life read the establishment by owen jones it might open your eyes they have to be ivestegated "

If someone blamed my friend or family for something they hadn't done I'd do everything I could to help my friend or family. Then I'd do everything I could ( legally ) to injure the lying bastard ( mental illness would be accepted as excuse ) and i'd try to more public / legal / personal damage to the haters who take rumour and opinion on board and try to pass it off as fact.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Check out bill maloney and listen to the abused"

bill baloney lmao

Dont check him out at all !

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By *at69driveMan
over a year ago

Hertford

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Jimmy saville.leon britain.cyrl smith.rolf harris.harvey proctor.margret thatcher new about cyrl smith says a lot the list will be bigger

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

Nobody as far as i can see has said that justice should not prevail, however we have a thing called due process so i fail to see what point your making..

interesting that you mention 'justice', if one of the people being the one rumoured or conjectured about was you or a member of your close family would you still share the same _iew..?

The victims of historical sex abuse deserve justice, any one guilty of such deserves whatever sanction is passed down..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Ah yes, the old my mates friend knows this bloke who met some fella down the pub who said...

sorry until its evidence tested as per the law which i would expect for you and me its rumour and conjecture..

and rumour and conjecture sometimes lead to innocent people who look a bit different getting a kicking.."

Add stupidity and ignorance to rumour and conjecture.

Which explains why a Portsmouth paediatrician had his home vandalised a few years ago during a paedophile hunt.....

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By *bfoxxx OP Man
over a year ago

Crete or LANCASTER

The newspapers say that an investigation is underway.

As yet he is NOT guilty of anything.

Say now what evidence there is that he abused children. I mean EVIDENCE not gossip.

Also - say which people believe which children were dumped from 'his' yacht.

It's all too easy to come online and spread rumours.

If he's found guilty so be it but until then it doesn't help with all the unfounded shite that goes around."

No one is spreading rumours or saying he's guilty without having evidence or proof.

It's a discussion on the fact that an investigation into allegations is taking place. And into the way in which the Police historically handled those allegations.

It will be interesting to see what happens either way.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

Ah yes, the old my mates friend knows this bloke who met some fella down the pub who said...

sorry until its evidence tested as per the law which i would expect for you and me its rumour and conjecture..

and rumour and conjecture sometimes lead to innocent people who look a bit different getting a kicking..

Add stupidity and ignorance to rumour and conjecture.

Which explains why a Portsmouth paediatrician had his home vandalised a few years ago during a paedophile hunt....."

i recall it, not a good day for the masses in that area..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I would always want to see justice done.

But only after evidence had been presented and tested, witnesses have been inter_iewed and questioned, due process had been carried out and the accused been found guilty.

Until then there is no justice to be done.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Where did you source it from?

The news has just announced it"

David Icke announced it 17 years ago in his book "The Biggest Secret".

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Child sex abuse claims / cover up.

I can't say it's a total surprise.

If there's any truth in it, it should have come to light sooner.

What good will it do now? He's been dead for years.

It did come to light sooner.And it was covered up."

Daily mirror has an allegation made from August 1961...... But radio 2 just had someone on .... Ted Heath wasn't even in the country at the time which is well documented....so apparently one totally false claim already!

And no....I couldn't stand Heath....the bastard took us into Europe!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm not so sure its news to the media.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I am always flabbergasted by the "no smoke without fire" brigade. How would you feel (or indeed your relatives)?

By all means open an official investigation, but for Lord's sake keep quiet until some credible evidence is found.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Ah yes, the old my mates friend knows this bloke who met some fella down the pub who said...

sorry until its evidence tested as per the law which i would expect for you and me its rumour and conjecture..

and rumour and conjecture sometimes lead to innocent people who look a bit different getting a kicking..

Add stupidity and ignorance to rumour and conjecture.

Which explains why a Portsmouth paediatrician had his home vandalised a few years ago during a paedophile hunt....."

From what I have read there was no attack on the home of a paediatrician in Portsmouth a few mothers demonstrated about peadophiles. No actual attack took place.

Paedo was sprayed on the door of a paediatrician in Gwent , the police report stated it was a small group of 12/17 year olds , hardly a mob

Miss reporting by the press ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You can't complain about mob justice. It's a direct correlation of this countries years of abject failure in actually bringing wealthy people to justice!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Ah yes, the old my mates friend knows this bloke who met some fella down the pub who said...

sorry until its evidence tested as per the law which i would expect for you and me its rumour and conjecture..

and rumour and conjecture sometimes lead to innocent people who look a bit different getting a kicking..

Add stupidity and ignorance to rumour and conjecture.

Which explains why a Portsmouth paediatrician had his home vandalised a few years ago during a paedophile hunt.....

From what I have read there was no attack on the home of a paediatrician in Portsmouth a few mothers demonstrated about peadophiles. No actual attack took place.

Paedo was sprayed on the door of a paediatrician in Gwent , the police report stated it was a small group of 12/17 year olds , hardly a mob

Miss reporting by the press ?

I saw the house, I was on call at the time. Broken windows, house covered in graffiti. Rubbish thrown in the garden. Mob outside....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" David Icke was saying this for years , just enter a search on Youtube

what david icke was saying some kids have been sexually abused ?"

He also says the queen is a 6ft pan dimensions lizard in a human suit so he's not the best source

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

The newspapers say that an investigation is underway.

As yet he is NOT guilty of anything.

Say now what evidence there is that he abused children. I mean EVIDENCE not gossip.

Also - say which people believe which children were dumped from 'his' yacht.

It's all too easy to come online and spread rumours.

If he's found guilty so be it but until then it doesn't help with all the unfounded shite that goes around.

No one is spreading rumours or saying he's guilty without having evidence or proof.

It's a discussion on the fact that an investigation into allegations is taking place. And into the way in which the Police historically handled those allegations.

It will be interesting to see what happens either way. "

Read other posts on this thread. I wasnt' referring to your O.P. which is clear because I quoted someone else.

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

*COPrinceAndrewFFS*

'Scuse me... something stuck in my throat there...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The law has to be applied equally.

The problem is Jimmy saville and others proved it hasn't been for a number of years and so you get where we are today!

This goes beyond heath, it's earnest Saunders and lord archer and its Tony Blair and Levinson and Rupert Murdoch and Dave.

Nobody of power gets nailed for their crimes while their alive....

And that's the crux of the issue

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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago

Derby

It's not one police force investigating him, it's three police forces, in three different parts of the country.

So, many people with the same, or similar, allegations that he abused them. That's one fuck of a coincidence... or maybe it's a conspiracy....

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By *bbandflowCouple
over a year ago

South Devon

" David Icke was saying this for years , just enter a search on Youtube

what david icke was saying some kids have been sexually abused ?

He also says the queen is a 6ft pan dimensions lizard in a human suit so he's not the best source"

6ft? ridiculous.they rarely top 5ft!

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By *UNCHBOXMan
over a year ago

folkestone

I think you have to take into account, a lot of stuff about famous people only comes into the public domain once they are dead. After all a dead person cannot sue for libel or slander, so the truth is harder to be covered up by threats of the libel laws. Saville was a master at using this to warn off media outlets from exposing him.

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By *anchestercubMan
over a year ago

manchester & NI

If suspected institutional abuse and cover-ups aren't investigated then where is the deterrent for future abuses/abusers/enablers?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If suspected institutional abuse and cover-ups aren't investigated then where is the deterrent for future abuses/abusers/enablers? "

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By *at69driveMan
over a year ago

Hertford

"Everybody do your homework its been over the net for years naming these people check out bill maloney hes campaigning for these people to be charged if its been over the net for years and they have never sued their acusers funny that isnt it "
. Only complete fools take cases to court for for libel or slander . In any event how many people could even afford to initiat a case . People can say anything on the net regardless of whether it is true or false. It is also completely pointless taking proceedings against those who have no money .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" David Icke was saying this for years , just enter a search on Youtube

what david icke was saying some kids have been sexually abused ?

He also says the queen is a 6ft pan dimensions lizard in a human suit so he's not the best source"

She is though. So is Cameron.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Dear old David icke!

I've meet him several times, when I joined the green party in 98ish he was highly respected by alot of people. I've read a few of his books, his early ones are really really good, it doesn't have to be this way is a genuine excellent read, I've not read the later ones.

The only thing I can tell you about him is he's a genuinely nice guy and he genuinely believes in everything he says.... He's no conman that's for sure!

On the other hand whether he's sane is open to debate!

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By *horltzMan
over a year ago

heysham

"Haute de la garenne childrens home on Jersey."

Was actually the set for bergeracs police headquarters

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By *0hnnyBrav0Man
over a year ago

Great Wyrley

Spies, lords and predators in the UK.

It's on yootube. It was aired a few weeks ago in Australia.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I am always flabbergasted by the "no smoke without fire" brigade. How would you feel (or indeed your relatives)?

By all means open an official investigation, but for Lord's sake keep quiet until some credible evidence is found."

If people kept quiet there would be no investigation. Noise = pressure = action

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By *heBirminghamWeekendMan
over a year ago

here

"I am always flabbergasted by the "no smoke without fire" brigade. How would you feel (or indeed your relatives)?

By all means open an official investigation, but for Lord's sake keep quiet until some credible evidence is found.

If people kept quiet there would be no investigation. Noise = pressure = action"

= unhinged warped society

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I am always flabbergasted by the "no smoke without fire" brigade. How would you feel (or indeed your relatives)?

By all means open an official investigation, but for Lord's sake keep quiet until some credible evidence is found.

If people kept quiet there would be no investigation. Noise = pressure = action

= unhinged warped society"

Truth is the truth. You may not like the messenger but that shouldnt affect the truth. Yes, an unhinged warped society when those and such as those can get away with murder. I think people can do worse than look at the Belgium government of a few years ago. Child kidnap and rape reached the highest of high politicians. It is everywhere

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By *isdirtygirlCouple
over a year ago

somewhere out there

Which explains why a Portsmouth paediatrician had his home vandalised a few years ago during a paedophile hunt....."

A female pediatrician had her house vandalised in Newport South Wales by the same moronic thugs acting on the stories in the tabloids.

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By *at69driveMan
over a year ago

Hertford

"I am always flabbergasted by the "no smoke without fire" brigade. How would you feel (or indeed your relatives)?

By all means open an official investigation, but for Lord's sake keep quiet until some credible evidence is found.

If people kept quiet there would be no investigation. Noise = pressure = action"
Or it can also mean a lot of time completely wasted at the taxpayers expense . Just because someone shouts loudly does not necessarily mean that they have a valid point . It can also mean that they are unbalanced or fail to accept the opinions of others.

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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago

Derby

"I am always flabbergasted by the "no smoke without fire" brigade. How would you feel (or indeed your relatives)?

By all means open an official investigation, but for Lord's sake keep quiet until some credible evidence is found.

If people kept quiet there would be no investigation. Noise = pressure = action Or it can also mean a lot of time completely wasted at the taxpayers expense . Just because someone shouts loudly does not necessarily mean that they have a valid point . It can also mean that they are unbalanced or fail to accept the opinions of others."

But when it's not just 'someone', but hundreds, if not thousands of people, in different areas, all shouting the same thing, then that voice becomes pretty convincing.

It is not a waste of money or time to investigate establishment abuse and cover-ups.. this has been going on for decades, certainly since MacMillan's time, when he even promoted someone in his government who was a paedophile, whom he knew about.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

At the bottom of this and other allegations is that we do not WANT to believe the extent of child sexual abuse.

Who would have thought the massive list of famous people, all protesting their innocence, all guilty. Shouting innocence loudly enough so we believe them. Shouting guilty enough so we dont believe them.

Saville, Harris burst bubbles.

But people really dont want to know the extent of child abuse because it means looking at your own families

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

Sexual abuse is vile, as is any cover up attempt. For allegations against the dead, we just need to ensure that process failures are improved and lessons learned. Media trial is not the way.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I must admit I don't see alot of media just the bbc and the odd internet us/Arab

Not really seen much trial by media of Ted heath to be honest!

I did notice the other week that Max Clifford has more accusers though... Are they allowed to accuse because he's in prison already or is that still faux pas

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Many people have desires which society does not consider acceptable - that is human nature. However, acting on those desires which are harmful to others is not acceptable.

Moral outrage and hysteria stirred up by the tabloids is not the solution. These matters should be investigated and dealt with in a civilised way.

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

"At the bottom of this and other allegations is that we do not WANT to believe the extent of child sexual abuse.

Saville, Harris burst bubbles.

But people really dont want to know the extent of child abuse because it means looking at your own families"

You'd be surprised how many of the population don't share your simplistic outlook and do research into pedophilia.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"True total waste of money what's the point,you cannot dig him up to tell him off for being a naughty boy.

What if the investigation leads to it still going on today?

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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago

Derby

"Many people have desires which society does not consider acceptable - that is human nature. However, acting on those desires which are harmful to others is not acceptable.

Moral outrage and hysteria stirred up by the tabloids is not the solution. These matters should be investigated and dealt with in a civilised way."

You seem to be ignoring the fact that there would be no moral outrage and hysteria able to be stirred up by the tabloids if these 'matters' had been properly investigated and dealt with in the first place, and it is this failure as well as the abuse itself which is causing such outrage.

Indeed, these 'matters' are not of a trivial nature... they involve what appears to be organised child abuse by members of the highest echelons of the British establishment, right up to Prime Minister, and their cover-up over many decades up to the present day.

It is also a known fact that other countries (for example, Russia) could and do use people's private lives in order to blackmail them into 'working for the other side', so what's to say Ted Heath, our Prime Minster, was not handing over our state secrets in order for his 'secrets' to be kept?

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By *at69driveMan
over a year ago

Hertford

"At the bottom of this and other allegations is that we do not WANT to believe the extent of child sexual abuse.

Saville, Harris burst bubbles.

But people really dont want to know the extent of child abuse because it means looking at your own families"
Not exactly true . What about Cliff Richard and the false allegations .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Many people have desires which society does not consider acceptable - that is human nature. However, acting on those desires which are harmful to others is not acceptable.

Moral outrage and hysteria stirred up by the tabloids is not the solution. These matters should be investigated and dealt with in a civilised way.

_________________________

__________________

I can't agree with your first point. Tabloids will stir up moral outrage even if matters are dealt with properly (just think of news film of angry mobs screaming at prison vans taking people to court).

I am convinced that there was a coverup by police, probably also by the security service and the "old boy network" and that this is far from trivial. It should be investigated publicly and people held accountable.

I also agree that people's private lives can be used for blackmail or coercion, but I have no idea if Heath was a target.

In an ideal world, everybody's private life would be above reproach, but sadly we are not in an ideal world. For politicians the solution would seem to be better scrutiny by police and security, and the co-operation of party chairpersons and chief whips. Sadly, I think lust for power means that this is unlikely.

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By *ay2571Man
over a year ago

Edinburgh

I haven't got much to add other than title tatle, I grew up on the south coast and my grand parents were very keen sailors and knew him. My grandmother didn't like him, and said there was something "queer" about him. But then she said that about a lot of people so wouldn't read anything into it.

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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago

Derby

"Many people have desires which society does not consider acceptable - that is human nature. However, acting on those desires which are harmful to others is not acceptable.

Moral outrage and hysteria stirred up by the tabloids is not the solution. These matters should be investigated and dealt with in a civilised way.

_________________________

__________________

I also agree that people's private lives can be used for blackmail or coercion, but I have no idea if Heath was a target.

I can't see how you can't agree with my first point... if there were proper investigations carried out in the first place, the tabloids would not be stirring up moral outrage and hysteria now. Maybe at the time, but not now.

Do you honestly think that, if the Russians or some other unfriendly nation knew of a Prime Minister with secrets of such a nature, then they would not have made him a target? Anyone with any power in government or allied agencies, makes themselves a target if they have a secret, morally wrong, life. And it is this fact alone, if Ted Heath did have such a life, that would have made him unfit to hold office.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Eventually every dead person who's well known will find themselves accused of something they can't defend themselves about."

This.

There are so many rumours, that eventually people seize upon them as being the truth then drive them forward as such.

I'm the first one to call for paedos to be put to death, if proven with smoking-gun evidence, and was shocked rigid about Rolf Harris (though I always thought that there was something creepy about Jimmy Saville), but there comes a point after someone has died when you have to say enough is enough. How far back do you go after someone has died, and what benefit is there to doing so...? Would you go back and investigate King Harold who burnt the cakes (maybe he was doing something naughty and his kitchen timer didn't go off...?).

Seriously, I don't believe the accusations about Ted Heath. He was a very reserved and private man, but by all accounts a decent one. I hope if the authorities do leave no stone unturned that they come up with the same conclusion.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

i know people need closure on happenings of the past , then fine make a claim against someone but it only seems to be aimed at people famous or with money , why not make a ruling of, yes get closure but no financial reward.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"i know people need closure on happenings of the past , then fine make a claim against someone but it only seems to be aimed at people famous or with money , why not make a ruling of, yes get closure but no financial reward."

the financial aspect will always cloud some peoples judgement and has sadly led to false claims from low lifes but what if that premise was applied across the board and people who have had their lives ruined by a d*unk driver and needs assistance for the rest of their natural, families left without a 'bread winner' as the company decided to save money on risk critical health and safety etc..?

i dont know the stats on the level of claimants in such recent cases but i do know someone who just wanted 'closure' through the justice system without compensation in order to prevent the guilty person abusing others..

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By *bbandflowCouple
over a year ago

South Devon

"Eventually every dead person who's well known will find themselves accused of something they can't defend themselves about.

This.

There are so many rumours, that eventually people seize upon them as being the truth then drive them forward as such.

King Harold burnt the cakes??

It's about the abuse of power, the ability to use that power to cover up and flout the rule of law.

Saville, Harris, Ball et al used their celebrity as such, and of course meant that those abused were understandably reluctant to come forward.

I have no idea if Heath was an abuser, hopefully there will be a conclusion either way. If there was a cover up then people must be held to account. Anything else would be a disgrace

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By *i-shoptonMan
over a year ago

bishopton

Jesus Paula!....... That's utter bollocks( I'm a sailor who owns a yacht and whosoever suggested kids were taken out sailing and thrown overboard really are living in conspiracy fairytale land.

I suppose the same source believes the Americans flew there own planes into the twin towers?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Many people have desires which society does not consider acceptable - that is human nature. However, acting on those desires which are harmful to others is not acceptable.

Moral outrage and hysteria stirred up by the tabloids is not the solution. These matters should be investigated and dealt with in a civilised way.

_________________________

__________________

I also agree that people's private lives can be used for blackmail or coercion, but I have no idea if Heath was a target.

_________________

_________________________

Your latest post makes the "then" and "now" distinction about moral outrage which I did not pick up from your first post - it changes what I understand your meaning to be. I think we are agreed that there would be moral outrage stirred up by the press when the allegations were made public (which should have been at the time, not many years later).

Regarding your second paragraph: I agree that if the Russians (or others) had known, Heath would have been a target. My point was that I don't know if Heath was a target - because I don't know what the Russians (or others) knew.

We can agree that allegations should have been properly investigated when the events supposedly occurred, not some 30-40 years later.

We can agree that if a politician has an unsavoury private life he or she should not be permitted to hold office (this is where my point about co-operation between security and party officials comes in).

Once we get past the confusion over wording (for which I apologise) I do think that we are in agreement on the fundamental points.

____________________

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Here's a randomly thought out question!

There's been thousands and thousands of prominent people in high places over let's say, the last 80 years.

How many have been charged with paedophilia, given that we know x amount of the population are attracted to it!

Given that a certain amount of people will be that way regardless...

Surely that leads to only one conclusion

They've not been caught (unlike every other profession going)?

There the only profession in history without any!!

Which one is most likely?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Jesus Paula!....... That's utter bollocks( I'm a sailor who owns a yacht and whosoever suggested kids were taken out sailing and thrown overboard really are living in conspiracy fairytale land.

I suppose the same source believes the Americans flew there own planes into the twin towers?"

err scuse me. How would you know if its bollox ? were you a sailor on his yacht ? how long have you had any interest in sexual abuse and read about it, studied home office stats , offending rates, the psychological effects of abuse and why people abuse ? There is an evidence trail that leads to him and missing kids. did he frequent any place where children went missing, yes, a place where a lot of children reported being abused yes, were these cases covered up yes. I guess you think im an idiot that believes any conspiracy or shite on youtube that abounds. you have no idea who i am or what i may know. Just because you cant get your mind around someone in authority and power who may be involved in the abuse and murder of children doesnt make what i said bollox. I didnt say it was an irrefutable fact. i think i said there is an accusation.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"Here's a randomly thought out question!

There's been thousands and thousands of prominent people in high places over let's say, the last 80 years.

How many have been charged with paedophilia, given that we know x amount of the population are attracted to it!

Given that a certain amount of people will be that way regardless...

Surely that leads to only one conclusion

They've not been caught (unlike every other profession going)?

There the only profession in history without any!!

Which one is most likely?"

similar to journalism then

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

Jesus Paula!....... That's utter bollocks( I'm a sailor who owns a yacht and whosoever suggested kids were taken out sailing and thrown overboard really are living in conspiracy fairytale land.

I suppose the same source believes the Americans flew there own planes into the twin towers?

one persons 'evidence trail' may be another's rumour and conjecture..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Here's a randomly thought out question!

There's been thousands and thousands of prominent people in high places over let's say, the last 80 years.

How many have been charged with paedophilia, given that we know x amount of the population are attracted to it!

Given that a certain amount of people will be that way regardless...

Surely that leads to only one conclusion

They've not been caught (unlike every other profession going)?

There the only profession in history without any!!

Which one is most likely?

similar to journalism then"

Or judges or cheif inspectors or royalty or presidents or dictators or ...... Billionaires...

Wait a minute i can see a connection, there all in places of influence!

I can think of lots of teachers who've been done for it! Lots of taxi drivers, army personal, firemen, doctors, local councillors... paediatricians even... But I just can't see any hint of anyone ever being done for it in the high up positions?

Could just be a coincidence maybe

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Eventually every dead person who's well known will find themselves accused of something they can't defend themselves about.

This.

There are so many rumours, that eventually people seize upon them as being the truth then drive them forward as such.

King Harold burnt the cakes??

It's about the abuse of power, the ability to use that power to cover up and flout the rule of law.

Saville, Harris, Ball et al used their celebrity as such, and of course meant that those abused were understandably reluctant to come forward.

I have no idea if Heath was an abuser, hopefully there will be a conclusion either way. If there was a cover up then people must be held to account. Anything else would be a disgrace

abuse victims have always been relucant to come forward. Basically because of a culture in authority that they are fantasists , trouble makers. Many young people who are abused are quite often kids who who have fallen foul of the law, are in care,home less, troubled kids with social workers. Kids like this are picked by abusers because they wont be believed. But much of what has come to light recently regarding celebs, mp's and people in authority has been reported and the kids were often punished for lying, not believed, sent to mental hospitals. Police are going back over cases that were reported and hushed up. This in turn has encouraged many others who didnt report it at the time to come forward. On top of being disbelieved its not reported out of shame, embarrasment and of course many children are threatened by their abusers.

someone else said heath couldnt have been an abuser because he was a private quiet decent man. oh dear where do i start....... priests as abusers in the catholic church,cyril smith an MP, rolf harris, everyone loved rolf didnt they ?

there si a massive long list of names of seemingly decent men & women who have committed vile crimes

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Jesus Paula!....... That's utter bollocks( I'm a sailor who owns a yacht and whosoever suggested kids were taken out sailing and thrown overboard really are living in conspiracy fairytale land.

I suppose the same source believes the Americans flew there own planes into the twin towers?

one persons 'evidence trail' may be another's rumour and conjecture.."

ahhh indeed it may. But its always wise to know your subject, to have read up on it, studied facts. you know, like was someone at the scene of the crime at the time, did they have the opportunity, is there any evidence such as witness testimony at the time of the incident which implicates this person. you have an opinion i have mine leave it at that.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Eventually every dead person who's well known will find themselves accused of something they can't defend themselves about.

This.

There are so many rumours, that eventually people seize upon them as being the truth then drive them forward as such.

King Harold burnt the cakes??

It's about the abuse of power, the ability to use that power to cover up and flout the rule of law.

Saville, Harris, Ball et al used their celebrity as such, and of course meant that those abused were understandably reluctant to come forward.

I have no idea if Heath was an abuser, hopefully there will be a conclusion either way. If there was a cover up then people must be held to account. Anything else would be a disgrace

there si a massive long list of names of seemingly decent men & women who have committed vile crimes"

agree with all of this.

Regards Rolf Harris, I met him, my parents met him when I was eight and in one of his shows, late seventies - everyone loved him. He had such a fun/easygoing/sensitive demeanour...

Everyone loved him

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

Sense of proportion please!

If Heath were alive none of this would have happened like this.

We have no idea whether these charges have any basis in fact; but their provenance looks flaky to say the least.

We are in the bizarre position where four constabularies are appealing for evidence to back up a case that they would be unlikely to pursue if they could exercise their own discretion.

But the police have been so damaged by failure to investigate Jimmy Savile, against whom there was plentiful evidence of abusive behaviour down the years, that they are obliged to investigate every allegation, however far fetched, levelled against a public figure.

There is an unedifying whiff of Salem about all of this.

It is essential that if these allegations have no foundation then the police should make this clear as speedily as possible.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

Jesus Paula!....... That's utter bollocks( I'm a sailor who owns a yacht and whosoever suggested kids were taken out sailing and thrown overboard really are living in conspiracy fairytale land.

I suppose the same source believes the Americans flew there own planes into the twin towers?

one persons 'evidence trail' may be another's rumour and conjecture..

its nothing to do with 'knowing ones subject' so please stop that patronising tone its not necessary or relevant..

you said 'evidence trail' which i'm sure you would agree is best shared with the authorities at the time its available yes..?

what 'facts', are they in the public domain or wherever else ?

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

What police protection did Heath have? Other than that, our own secret service would have known him inside out. I'm assuming he had 24/7 protection as premier and up to his death - during the Thatcher and IRA bombing years etc. There shouldn't be anything unknown in all those years, surely?

Was he just gay and somewhat alien to others at his time?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Child abuse is rife in the upper echelons of society.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Child abuse is rife in the upper echelons of society."

They are all in on it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"What police protection did Heath have? Other than that, our own secret service would have known him inside out. I'm assuming he had 24/7 protection as premier and up to his death - during the Thatcher and IRA bombing years etc. There shouldn't be anything unknown in all those years, surely?

Was he just gay and somewhat alien to others at his time? "

If what you say is true about the secret service then saville must be innocent.

Saville who spent years of christmas's with thatcher at chequers, had keys to broadmoor, a flat inside it, like wise at hospitals, pally with prince charles and the royals. he was always a bit weird wasnt he. Everyone loved him though. did a lot for "chariddeee mate" surely if he did what they now say then the secret service wouldnt have let him near those people. Although some conspiracy theorists think the secret service did know

and covered things up.

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West

1) Sort out the criminal justice system so that it is fit for purpose.

2) Introduce a time limit for prosecutions and / or cap the costs.

Yes people need justice, but the country does not need £ hundreds of millions being spent today investigating cases that happened generations ago and which involve now dead people or people in their very twilight years.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"1) Sort out the criminal justice system so that it is fit for purpose.

2) Introduce a time limit for prosecutions and / or cap the costs.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"1) Sort out the criminal justice system so that it is fit for purpose.

2) Introduce a time limit for prosecutions and / or cap the costs.

Quite.

A few weeks back when the dementia suffering Labour peer was in the news, Jeremy Vine asked this leading lady Barrister if it was fair to prosecute such a person. Yes.

Exploring the limits, he then asked, would you prosecute someone like Jimmy Savile who's dead.

Yes she said.

Simply unbelievable.

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By *at69driveMan
over a year ago

Hertford

"1) Sort out the criminal justice system so that it is fit for purpose.

2) Introduce a time limit for prosecutions and / or cap the costs.

Yes it is a tough call - but turn the investigation into making the justice system better rather tying up time and resources proving the guilt of a dead person in the hope that a living person may feel satisfied for their remaining years. Does this happen in reality? I doubt it."
. Excellent post . Most successfull people will have overcome problems that have happened in the past . Are these long running investigations encouraging people to dwell on what has happened in the past and exaggerate the impact on them in order to obtain compensation? I believe in justice , but not regardless of cost. It is the tax payer who is funding all these investigations . We could be making life. more difficult for the so called victims by encouraging them to live in the past instead of moving forward in life .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Hi Paula

I have taken the comment as being constructive. I dont think anyone would be deliberately cruel

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"Excellent post . Most successfull people will have overcome problems that have happened in the past . Are these long running investigations encouraging people to dwell on what has happened in the past and exaggerate the impact on them in order to obtain compensation? I believe in justice , but not regardless of cost. It is the tax payer who is funding all these investigations . We could be making life. more difficult for the so called victims by encouraging them to live in the past instead of moving forward in life . "

what a pile of tosh..

what problems do you think that the 'successful' people have overcome that are of the same level of damage as being raped when they were a child..?

some of all status and 'success' will have locked it away and dealt with it and moved on yes but others have taken their own lives again across all levels of society and 'success' and others of the same status and 'success' will relive it day in and day out for the rest of their natural..

'so called victims' ffs what bollocks is that to say..

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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago

Derby

"Many people have desires which society does not consider acceptable - that is human nature. However, acting on those desires which are harmful to others is not acceptable.

Moral outrage and hysteria stirred up by the tabloids is not the solution. These matters should be investigated and dealt with in a civilised way.

_________________________

__________________

I also agree that people's private lives can be used for blackmail or coercion, but I have no idea if Heath was a target.

_________________

_________________________

We can agree that allegations should have been properly investigated when the events supposedly occurred, not some 30-40 years later.

Once we get past the confusion over wording (for which I apologise) I do think that we are in agreement on the fundamental points.

____________________"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No need for that.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Just fucking investigate the bleeding charges of whether or not the police covered/botched the original allegations!

Yes/no

Move on from there, what the hells wrong with people ffs, were talking about allegations of wide scale abuse of children ffs not friggin tax evasion or accountant fraud.... The rapping of children should never ever have a time limit on it.... In fact dig them up and impale the fuckers on London bridge, and I really don't give a shit if it costs a million quid to do, it's certainly money well spent

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By *at69driveMan
over a year ago

Hertford

what a pile of tosh..

what problems do you think that the 'successful' people have overcome that are of the same level of damage as being raped when they were a child..?

'so called victims' ffs what bollocks is that to say..

"
. Some of the alleged victims are only in it for the compensation. I always believe it is dangerous when the police or other organisations start advertising for victims to come forward .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

what a pile of tosh..

what problems do you think that the 'successful' people have overcome that are of the same level of damage as being raped when they were a child..?

'so called victims' ffs what bollocks is that to say..

. Some of the alleged victims are only in it for the compensation. I always believe it is dangerous when the police or other organisations start advertising for victims to come forward . "

I think its advising

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By *ighland_RoseCouple
over a year ago

Brigadoon

"Just fucking investigate the bleeding charges of whether or not the police covered/botched the original allegations!

Yes/no

Damn fucking right!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Just fucking investigate the bleeding charges of whether or not the police covered/botched the original allegations!

Yes/no

Damn fucking right!"

I've kept away from this thread most of the day. However this sums it up I think. Justice should never have a time limit. There is a need for all the facts to be separated from the falsehoods and for the necessary investigations to be carried out before we condemn anyone alive or dead. However that process should be completed without any cover ups and in complete independence. There is more than a strong suggestion that historically this has not been so in many cases.

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West

"Just fucking investigate the bleeding charges of whether or not the police covered/botched the original allegations!

Yes/no

Damn fucking right!

Then you need to be very, careful about where you choose to draw the line between personal limitations and State limitations because this country has a very colourful history of state sponsored murder, mayhem and abuse ... Albeit it was with foreigner type people who don't really matter.

Where are we going to draw the line?

Do we draw the line 40 years ago with rich individuals who are now dead or suffering dementia? How about we go back a bit further when we collectively abducted, imprisoned, tortured, murdered or sold innocent people in the name of trade? Is that ok because it was a bit longer ago?

This country is full of people who have no concept of their own history and their collective obligations to the world.

How unfortunate that we decide that an 8 year old boy who got sucked off by his Boys Brigade Leader 45 years ago is a million times more important than a family torn apart in Africa (or India) in the name of the British Empire 100 years earlier.

I understand though, they were only foreigners.

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By *anchestercubMan
over a year ago

manchester & NI

Too hot - surely the line is drawn when we have people alive who are potential victims.

If those people are alive then we try to get justice for them if there's the evidence to do so.

Just because a perpetrator has died, it does not mean that victims who are alive must forgo a sense of justice.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Just fucking investigate the bleeding charges of whether or not the police covered/botched the original allegations!

Yes/no

Damn fucking right!

Where are we going to draw the line?

This country is full of people who have no concept of their own history and their collective obligations to the world.

I understand though, they were only foreigners. "

I think you have put an insensitive spin on what has been said previously.Fucking shocking too.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Just fucking investigate the bleeding charges of whether or not the police covered/botched the original allegations!

Yes/no

Damn fucking right!

Where are we going to draw the line?

This country is full of people who have no concept of their own history and their collective obligations to the world.

I understand though, up only foreigners. "
.

State sponsored crimes are completely different and more objective than individual crimes!

Do you pursue Joseph mengeler for his crimes against 10,000 Jews or the UKs for melting 300,000 civilian Dresden citizens... If thats the case, does the pilot get the life sentence or bomber Harris.

10 million Africans got sold into slavery, alot were sold into it by Africans, the fact that slavery wasn't a crime when it was practised should help you recover your morale ambiguity whereas sticking your dick up a five year old ass was illegal even in the 1960s

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By *ts artMan
over a year ago

Londonderry

Where are we going to draw the line?

This country is full of people who have no concept of their own history and their collective obligations to the world.

I understand though, they were only foreigners. "

Interestingly some of the wealthy families of the land. Who do use their wealth and influence in ways that are questionable, were compensated for having to free/or lose there slaves on abolishion

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West

"Too hot - surely the line is drawn when we have people alive who are potential victims.

If those people are alive then we try to get justice for them if there's the evidence to do so.

Just because a perpetrator has died, it does not mean that victims who are alive must forgo a sense of justice. "

I hear you. My point is that there must come a time when the benefit of the nation overcomes the benefit of the individual.

I can't begin to imagine the feelings of a sex abuse abuse victim as much as I can't imagine the feelings of a family that has lost someone through accident/neglect or malice.

What is striking however is the difference in how sex abuse victims seek justice... Even from the dead. Whereas bereaved families seek a change in the justice system to prevent similar tragedies happening in the future.

My point being is that as a country do we want to spend countless billions uncovering the misdemeanours of long dead individuals or de want to protect our children's future.

I don't wish to sound insensitive but as a nation we have committed some horrendous crimes against nations and individuals and we just need to a bit careful about hanging our Great Grandadad out to dry because he allegedly tweaked his Nieces nipple and tugged her lady garden in the summer of 1903. Or maybe 10, 20, 30 years or so earlier or later.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Just fucking investigate the bleeding charges of whether or not the police covered/botched the original allegations!

Yes/no

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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago

Derby

"Too hot - surely the line is drawn when we have people alive who are potential victims.

If those people are alive then we try to get justice for them if there's the evidence to do so.

Just because a perpetrator has died, it does not mean that victims who are alive must forgo a sense of justice.

I hear you. My point is that there must come a time when the benefit of the nation overcomes the benefit of the individual.

I can't begin to imagine the feelings of a sex abuse abuse victim as much as I can't imagine the feelings of a family that has lost someone through accident/neglect or malice.

My point being is that as a country do we want to spend countless billions uncovering the misdemeanours of long dead individuals or de want to protect our children's future.

I've not heard of any victims of child abuse asking for money. They simply want to know 'why?' and 'how?'.

Why was this allowed to happen, and how was it allowed to happen? The who of it has to be ascertained in order to understand this, and to understand how widespread it was, and maybe still is. It is important to understand who, particularly in as far as this seems to go to the very highest offices of power, and therefore it is not only about the abuse itself, but moreover about the abuse of power exercised for the vilest of reasons.

It is only in finding answers to how and why it happened THEN that we will be better able to prevent it from happening NOW.

So surely this would benefit the nation?

As for the cost of it all, maybe the costs would be minimised if the very organisations (government, police, civil service, etc) who seem to be implicated actually weren't still trying to cover things up.

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By *aneandpaulCouple
over a year ago

cleveleys

Would never have gone to court when he was living if it was true it would have brought the House of Lords down as simple as that. There was going to sentence one of the Beaverbrook family in the 50,s for being gay there was a good chance he could have got hung he said he would fetch the house down he got a little sentence if any.

Dont forget the shower of Bastards that rule us have there own Private Fabswingers

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By *at69driveMan
over a year ago

Hertford

"
. If this was the case where are the names of these so called missing children. ?. If he was a prime minister every move that he made would be tightly monitored . Dumping a body overboard would probably be impossible to do without being caught .

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By *0hnnyBrav0Man
over a year ago

Great Wyrley

. If this was the case where are the names of these so called missing children. ?. If he was a prime minister every move that he made would be tightly monitored . Dumping a body overboard would probably be impossible to do without being caught . "

Spies lords and predators in the UK on yootube.

Dumping bodies is not that impossible by the government. Children disappeared. When questions get asked those people asking questions get told to stop asking for their own safety.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

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By *at69driveMan
over a year ago

Hertford

As impossible for any other prime minister who's had an affair? Your naivety of what power can do to others is startling...even more startling you cant see that people get paid to look the other way....which was probably much easier in the past."
. Or maybe just realistic ..I have taken a government organisation to court so have a reasonable working knowledge of the system

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

what a pile of tosh..

what problems do you think that the 'successful' people have overcome that are of the same level of damage as being raped when they were a child..?

'so called victims' ffs what bollocks is that to say..

. Some of the alleged victims are only in it for the compensation. I always believe it is dangerous when the police or other organisations start advertising for victims to come forward . "

you have no idea that is the case, what do you base it on given that most issues are dealt with confidentially by those representing someone..

Paddy has it correct below, the police will advise not advertise and any one thinking oh i'll make something up and get some compo will be found out and some have been prosecuted and not only in cases of historical abuse..

notice you ducked my post above in response to your 'successful' people which only serves to indicate that along with your other contributions on this your either being led by your choice of media and or ignorance..

some of Stuart Halls victims were able to have their day in court as with Max Clifford because they felt able to do so..

were they a relative of yours i reckon you may think differently..

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

As impossible for any other prime minister who's had an affair? Your naivety of what power can do to others is startling...even more startling you cant see that people get paid to look the other way....which was probably much easier in the past.. Or maybe just realistic ..I have taken a government organisation to court so have a reasonable working knowledge of the system "

yes because a solicitor or legal clerk working in the legal department of whichever government organisation who will assess the case against and refer to whomever who will then decide to fight the case legally and appoint counsel if necessary or settle will be totally in the loop of the goings on at the highest ministerial level..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

He won't have acted alone (if indeed he did act) Dolphin house is going to 'shake the foundations'.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You've got to remember that in the higher reaches of society they all protect each other..

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"You've got to remember that in the higher reaches of society they all protect each other.."

You're not suggesting the same doesn't happen amongst the criminal classes, are you?

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By *anchestercubMan
over a year ago

manchester & NI

"You've got to remember that in the higher reaches of society they all protect each other..

You're not suggesting the same doesn't happen amongst the criminal classes, are you?"

In many cases the upper classes are the criminal classes.

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By *iewMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Angus & Findhorn

has he been found guilty, hung drawn and quartered yet......

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"has he been found guilty, hung drawn and quartered yet......

Being a Tory is enough to deserve that.

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By *iewMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Angus & Findhorn

"has he been found guilty, hung drawn and quartered yet......

Being a Tory is enough to deserve that."

bad man...

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By *anchestercubMan
over a year ago

manchester & NI

Anyone who subscribes to PopBitch should check out today's blast!

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By *at69driveMan
over a year ago

Hertford

Three types of people will respond to this appeal for victims .

1. Disturbed individuals who may sincerely believe among their many fantasies that they have suffered wrongs or abuse at the hands of those in power.

2. Those excited at the thought of a moment of fame

3. Those tempted by the prospect of financial gain

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

and victims

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Three types of people will respond to this appeal for victims .

1. Disturbed individuals who may sincerely believe among their many fantasies that they have suffered wrongs or abuse at the hands of those in power.

2. Those excited at the thought of a moment of fame

3. Those tempted by the prospect of financial gain "

sounds like something a Barrister or media team would suggest you use in a press conference. I believe stuart hall, rolf harris & max clifford said something similar.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Three types of people will respond to this appeal for victims .

1. Disturbed individuals who may sincerely believe among their many fantasies that they have suffered wrongs or abuse at the hands of those in power.

2. Those excited at the thought of a moment of fame

3. Those tempted by the prospect of financial gain "

4. Real victims

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By *kin BohnerMan
over a year ago

derby

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

You see that's the worry, can things like this happen as there are people always there protecting him, or can it happen and the people doing the protecting turn a blind eye.

Before anyone says no that won't happen, you actually don't know if it does.

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By *at69driveMan
over a year ago

Hertford

I smell bull excrement... As his former private secretary has said. Even after retirement Edward Heath lived in a bubble of security. He was guarded 24/7 by plod and his every move was logged and his appointments pree planed. Unless plod and his assistants were in on it then it simply not possible. "
. One so called victim claimed to be have been raped in 1961 at Heaths London flat and referred to yachting pictures hung on the walls . There is a problem with his allegation . Heath did not take up yachting unto many years after 1961. Another fantasy , money or glory seeker.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Paedos in Westminster? - I wouldn't hear of it!

As someone said above, - "in this country we have due process."

Yeah, funny how it starts tomorrow for some yet 30 or 40 years for others!!

And yet again the police are investigating a cover-up ........... by the police

- I fully expect John Cleese & Michael Palin to make a cameo appearance on this one!!

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By *icky999Man
over a year ago

warrington

arent the police slaged off for incompetence every day, now there james bond? they dont go in every room with them. venesa and sand toksvig were abused in a room full of people.

my nans got a wall full of boat pics. never been to sea a day in her life.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"You see that's the worry, can things like this happen as there are people always there protecting him, or can it happen and the people doing the protecting turn a blind eye.

Before anyone says no that won't happen, you actually don't know if it does."

agreed..

there is a history of some of the Royal family having 'visitors' in their residences or popping out with and without an escort/close protection..

one of Heath's 'people' said he couldn't have because he was closely guarded etc how bloody naive, without pre judging anyone paedophiles are devious and will manipulate their own families. Thats a fact.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"Three types of people will respond to this appeal for victims .

1. Disturbed individuals who may sincerely believe among their many fantasies that they have suffered wrongs or abuse at the hands of those in power.

2. Those excited at the thought of a moment of fame

3. Those tempted by the prospect of financial gain

4. Real victims"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

arent the police slaged off for incompetence every day, now there james bond? they dont go in every room with them. venesa and sand toksvig were abused in a room full of people.

my nans got a wall full of boat pics. never been to sea a day in her life."

Must have a morning clouded memory

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Hemingway, Eichmann, Stranger in a Strange Land Dylan, Berlin, Bay of Pigs invasion

Lawrence of Arabia, British Beatlemania

Ole Miss, John Glenn, Liston beats Patterson

Pope Paul, Malcolm X, British Politician Sex,

TEDDY H blown away, what else do I have to say?

We didn't start the fire

It was always burning Since the world's been turning We didn't start the fire

No we didn't light it But we tried to HIDE IT!

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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago

Derby

"Three types of people will respond to this appeal for victims .

1. Disturbed individuals who may sincerely believe among their many fantasies that they have suffered wrongs or abuse at the hands of those in power.

2. Those excited at the thought of a moment of fame

3. Those tempted by the prospect of financial gain "

And those who have been abused. It sounds like you don't believe there's any such thing.

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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago

Derby

I smell bull excrement... As his former private secretary has said. Even after retirement Edward Heath lived in a bubble of security. He was guarded 24/7 by plod and his every move was logged and his appointments pree planed. Unless plod and his assistants were in on it then it simply not possible. . One so called victim claimed to be have been raped in 1961 at Heaths London flat and referred to yachting pictures hung on the walls . There is a problem with his allegation . Heath did not take up yachting unto many years after 1961. Another fantasy , money or glory seeker. "

I've got pictures of planes on my walls...

One day I'll actually fly one...

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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago

Derby

The Queen is guarded 24/7.... didn't someone manage to get through all the security at the Palace and have a chat with her in her room in the middle of the night?

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By *at69driveMan
over a year ago

Hertford

The Queen is guarded 24/7.... didn't someone manage to get through all the security at the Palace and have a chat with her in her room in the middle of the night? "
. Yes but they were also caught promptly . The same would apply to Heath if there was any remote possibility of the allegations being true .

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Edward Heath - Prime Minister