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Is the Labour party about to commit political suicide?

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By *nleashedCraken OP   Man
over a year ago

Widnes

And is this a good or bad thing for Britain?

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

Tricky one.

You see the swell in numbers of people joining the Labour party to rock the vote in favour of Corbyn.

He is one of those 'socialist-socialists' as opposed to one of those 'capitalist-socialists' we've become used to.

Whether or not you think he's bad for the Labour party/the country as a whole he's certainly appealing to a significant minority of the electorate who feel unrepresented.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Vote JC that is all!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Well he has certainly got the Tories in a spin.

People are tired of Tory V Tory lite.

Certainly made politics a little more interesting.

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

Personally I'm waiting for Sandi Toksvig's Lady Party to get going... That sounds OK to me...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-32531750

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By *heOwlMan
over a year ago

Altrincham

Surely to commit political suicide they would need resussitating first? Last election they were nothing more than a limp version of the Tories.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

There is no greater danger of labour self-destructing than when the Tories selected Ian Duncan Smith as party leader......

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I am a life long party member and activist.

Who ever thought that this would be a good idea selling the rights to vote for.the leader needs shooting.

Its a slap in the face for the hard working members

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By *obbytupperMan
over a year ago

Menston near Ilkley

As a lifelong party animal I couldn't give two hoots!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I am a life long party member and activist.

Who ever thought that this would be a good idea selling the rights to vote for.the leader needs shooting.

Its a slap in the face for the hard working members "

Think you'll find that was Ed Milliband.

To be honest it doesn't matter who they get even if they go all socialist because politicians no longer act as the voice of the people and haven't for some time.

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By *illi37Woman
over a year ago

glasgow

Let us all pray that they get there act together........up here we have the nationalists .......and you think the Tories are bad lol x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It doesn't matter. Without Scottish seats you won't see another Labour government.

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By *alandriaTV/TS
over a year ago

Nottingham

As a Tory I hope they elect him. No Liebore government for 10 years. Mind you if they do, the wholesale carnage that will break out in the party will be highly amusing to watch

On a more serious note, we need an opposition that is effective and a bunch of nutters ranting on a la Michael Foote is not going to provide that

Labour lost because the electorate just did not trust them on the economy. JC just shows how right they were

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Hello Milli,

"Let us all pray that they get there act together........up here we have the nationalists ....."

Don't worry too much their honeymoon will be short lived when all their false promises come to nothing.

Alec

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Hope they all commit [s]political[/s] suicide before the internet is censored and anyone who speaks against them is classed a terrorist.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Socialism has been repressed by the Labour party for many years. What they fear now is a surge of support for a left wing candidate by a large number of people who have felt disenfranchised by the political elite of this country. Maybe he is not the man to lead the party into government, but he will make the others sit up and take notice when he garners support from so many ordinary people. Lets get Labour back on the side of working people!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"And is this a good or bad thing for Britain?"

They already have; its not good for Britain, but its bloody good for Scotland, finger up to Labour as they stand side by side with Tories and kiss ass

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Let us all pray that they get there act together........up here we have the nationalists .......and you think the Tories are bad lol x "

Labour are finished in Scotland, never to return, much the same as Tories & Lib Dem

SNP has Scotland's interest at heart, a thing all other parties could not do

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"It doesn't matter. Without Scottish seats you won't see another Labour government."

Then you will never see another Labour government because the whole of Scotland now see through Labour's lies

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"And is this a good or bad thing for Britain?"

If Corbyn is elected it's suicide.

It would be a bad thing for Britain.

Any government needs strong opposition.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I am a life long party member and activist.

Who ever thought that this would be a good idea selling the rights to vote for.the leader needs shooting.

Its a slap in the face for the hard working members "

are you going to pull the trigger

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury


"As a lifelong party animal I couldn't give two hoots! "

^ I ENDORSE THIS POST ^

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk


"Tricky one.

You see the swell in numbers of people joining the Labour party to rock the vote in favour of Corbyn.

He is one of those 'socialist-socialists' as opposed to one of those 'capitalist-socialists' we've become used to.

Whether or not you think he's bad for the Labour party/the country as a whole he's certainly appealing to a significant minority of the electorate who feel unrepresented. "

Given that only around a third of voters, and a quarter of those eligible to vote, voted for the party currently in government, I'd suggest it could well be a majority that feel unrepresented, not a minority.

I'm pretty sure all the children in child poverty, which has been redefined so as to ignore it, would like to be represented too.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Socialism has been repressed by the Labour party for many years. What they fear now is a surge of support for a left wing candidate by a large number of people who have felt disenfranchised by the political elite of this country. Maybe he is not the man to lead the party into government, but he will make the others sit up and take notice when he garners support from so many ordinary people. Lets get Labour back on the side of working people!"

Well said! I am utterly fed up with "style over substance". I just hope that Labour doesn't take another decade before it realises that Clause IV is an ideal worth keeping.

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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago

Bristol


"And is this a good or bad thing for Britain?

If Corbyn is elected it's suicide.

It would be a bad thing for Britain.

Any government needs strong opposition. "

Corbyn is the only candidate representing opposition.

These ideas that a strong left wing would be electoral suicide for Labour are laughable. The reason that the party were slaughtered at the last election was because they don't present as an opposition.

People also forget that Tony Blair was elected on a left wing platform in 1997 - it was 2000 onwards that he started shunting the party to the right.

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury


"Given that only around a third of voters, and a quarter of those eligible to vote, voted for the party currently in government, I'd suggest it could well be a majority that feel unrepresented, not a minority.

I'm pretty sure all the children in child poverty, which has been redefined so as to ignore it, would like to be represented too."

Absolutely, esp. about child poverty. I was being a tad flippant.

However: I don't believe that with our present electoral system there are a majority of voters who are *less scared* than attracted to Corbyn as a candidate.

He's considered 'loonie' Left in many quarters.

Which is a crying shame as he's a (the only!) genuine, principled, non-party machine candidate who could really shake things up.

But.

As it stands, the people of this country have generally been undeniably shifting rightwards over the last 30 years and are specifically terrified about a return to 'Labour's 2008 bust/spending orgy' (bollox but that's the perception)...

And as such they'd be highly unlikely to go for Corbyn.

Things would have to get much worse, economically and politically, before a candidate like Corbyn had a chance at the ballot box.

imo

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead


"There is no greater danger of labour self-destructing than when the Tories selected Ian Duncan Smith as party leader...... "

took the tories 7 years and 2 leaders and a general election to get over IDS.....

which means that labour would not have a sniff again using the same premise till 2025....

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By *isdirtygirlCouple
over a year ago

somewhere out there


"And is this a good or bad thing for Britain?

If Corbyn is elected it's suicide.

It would be a bad thing for Britain.

Any government needs strong opposition. "

My point exactly. I will join Labour just to vote against him. Britain imposed one party rule on enough other countries we really don't what that here. I want the Tories to have to fight to do things and not just walk through everything unopposed.

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk


"Given that only around a third of voters, and a quarter of those eligible to vote, voted for the party currently in government, I'd suggest it could well be a majority that feel unrepresented, not a minority.

I'm pretty sure all the children in child poverty, which has been redefined so as to ignore it, would like to be represented too.

Absolutely, esp. about child poverty. I was being a tad flippant.

However: I don't believe that with our present electoral system there are a majority of voters who are *less scared* than attracted to Corbyn as a candidate.

He's considered 'loonie' Left in many quarters.

Which is a crying shame as he's a (the only!) genuine, principled, non-party machine candidate who could really shake things up.

But.

As it stands, the people of this country have generally been undeniably shifting rightwards over the last 30 years and are specifically terrified about a return to 'Labour's 2008 bust/spending orgy' (bollox but that's the perception)...

And as such they'd be highly unlikely to go for Corbyn.

Things would have to get much worse, economically and politically, before a candidate like Corbyn had a chance at the ballot box.

imo"

Well, things will get much worse so he may yet get that chance.

Hopefully something will change before the first workhouses are reopened but I wouldn't bet on that as things stand.

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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago

upton wirral

[Removed by poster at 27/07/15 22:30:56]

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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago

upton wirral


"I am a life long party member and activist.

Who ever thought that this would be a good idea selling the rights to vote for.the leader needs shooting.

Its a slap in the face for the hard working members "

It is also a recipe for corruption

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By *riskynriskyCouple
over a year ago

Essex.

Seeing how well communism has worked out for Russian's, the Chinese and Vietnames I prey he doesn't ever get in power.

Where would he get the money to buy back the power companies, water, railways, Royal Mail etc.

He has already stated that the government should do what is best for the people... Who is he to decide what is best for me and my family?

As usual the communists will take what they want damn the consequences...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Given that only around a third of voters, and a quarter of those eligible to vote, voted for the party currently in government, I'd suggest it could well be a majority that feel unrepresented, not a minority.

I'm pretty sure all the children in child poverty, which has been redefined so as to ignore it, would like to be represented too.

Absolutely, esp. about child poverty. I was being a tad flippant.

However: I don't believe that with our present electoral system there are a majority of voters who are *less scared* than attracted to Corbyn as a candidate.

He's considered 'loonie' Left in many quarters.

Which is a crying shame as he's a (the only!) genuine, principled, non-party machine candidate who could really shake things up.

But.

As it stands, the people of this country have generally been undeniably shifting rightwards over the last 30 years and are specifically terrified about a return to 'Labour's 2008 bust/spending orgy' (bollox but that's the perception)...

And as such they'd be highly unlikely to go for Corbyn.

Things would have to get much worse, economically and politically, before a candidate like Corbyn had a chance at the ballot box.

imo"
.Once again

Your quite correct mr Joe

The much worse economically bit is just around the corner though IMO

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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago

Bristol

Communist! You probably thought Ed Milliband was a left winger, too!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Do i get my £3 back if Corbyn doesn't win?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Communist! You probably thought Ed Milliband was a left winger, too! "

Ed Milliband, 2015, a commune of 1.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Seeing how well communism has worked out for Russian's, the Chinese and Vietnames I prey he doesn't ever get in power.

Where would he get the money to buy back the power companies, water, railways, Royal Mail etc.

He has already stated that the government should do what is best for the people... Who is he to decide what is best for me and my family?

As usual the communists will take what they want damn the consequences..."
.

The difference between socialism and communism is quite a gap!.

It's like saying the Tories are a shade away from the Nazi party!

There's a whole spectrum, it's not just anyone right is a Nazi and anyone left is a communist!

Like saying Germany who has a state run power company, or Canada... There not communists!

It is possible to own things as a country without being communist FFS

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

Anything that stops the myth of centrist politics, which perpetuates the growing chasm between rich and others is a good thing.

The only reason there's this discussion is because the right wing media has created this story. Our opinions are driven by them.

I have no clue who is the best leader for that party, but it is probably not the person we're being led to think that it should be.

Someone for employment rights, our NHS, home rental price controls, like in Germany and other countries and rejection of the neocapitalist agenda would be about right for labour. And for urgent global warming action.

Forget the spin, if you're not a labour party member. I'm not.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Seeing how well communism has worked out for Russian's, the Chinese and Vietnames I prey he doesn't ever get in power.

Where would he get the money to buy back the power companies, water, railways, Royal Mail etc.

He has already stated that the government should do what is best for the people... Who is he to decide what is best for me and my family?

As usual the communists will take what they want damn the consequences....

The difference between socialism and communism is quite a gap!.

It's like saying the Tories are a shade away from the Nazi party!

There's a whole spectrum, it's not just anyone right is a Nazi and anyone left is a communist!

Like saying Germany who has a state run power company, or Canada... There not communists!

It is possible to own things as a country without being communist FFS "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"People also forget that Tony Blair was elected on a left wing platform in 1997 - it was 2000 onwards that he started shunting the party to the right."

Sorry, but this isn't actually true.

Labour ditched clause 4 in 1994, specifically so they could then address the notion that they were not to be trusted from a business pov. Then proceeded to suck off the city. Hence murdochs support etc.

Eg-why do you think all the phone companies changed their contracts to become the same length? After all we do have an office of fair trading/dept of trade + industry. If it was obvious to me as another suit in the city, should've been obvious to the fucking industry department.

Basically they agreed to give all data to gchq in return for a cartel. Fixed contacts-stitching up the market.

Why do you think brown let the b of e set interest rates? to keep the city sweet and this was pre 2000.

Other examples, but that's enough for now

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Lol, you know what makes me chuckle, people actually think there's politicians who aren't run by big business!.

Take a good look around people... Your government is run by big business and has been for years!!

The only people who aren't run by big business are the so called fringe loonies..... You know people that come up with ideas to solve shit like global warming.. Fuck off you fringe loonies with your less flying... That's inhibiting my profit on jumbos and golf trips and night races in Dubai... Where the fuck would the world be without important shit like cheap nasty plastic shite from China full of PCP,s for your children to suck on and clever manipulative paedophilic marketing of ten year olds girls for xmas singles by Simon cowel.... Only in a world this shit, could environmentalists and trade unionists be seen as fringe loonies!

Globalism had a leverage buy out forty fucking years ago, you lot are robots who's only use is buying shit and quite frankly when the system goes tits up, you'll be completely dispensable

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Lol, you know what makes me chuckle, people actually think there's politicians who aren't run by big business!.

Take a good look around people... Your government is run by big business and has been for years!!

The only people who aren't run by big business are the so called fringe loonies..... You know people that come up with ideas to solve shit like global warming.. Fuck off you fringe loonies with your less flying... That's inhibiting my profit on jumbos and golf trips and night races in Dubai... Where the fuck would the world be without important shit like cheap nasty plastic shite from China full of PCP,s for your children to suck on and clever manipulative paedophilic marketing of ten year olds girls for xmas singles by Simon cowel.... Only in a world this shit, could environmentalists and trade unionists be seen as fringe loonies!

Globalism had a leverage buy out forty fucking years ago, you lot are robots who's only use is buying shit and quite frankly when the system goes tits up, you'll be completely dispensable"

Can we take it that you're not too keen on Jeremy Corbyn either?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I paid my £3.00 for the membership so I can vote for Jez.

I hope they remain out of power for the rest of my life.

Tories4Corbyn

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By *nleashedCraken OP   Man
over a year ago

Widnes


"Seeing how well communism has worked out for Russian's, the Chinese and Vietnames I prey he doesn't ever get in power.

Where would he get the money to buy back the power companies, water, railways, Royal Mail etc.

He has already stated that the government should do what is best for the people... Who is he to decide what is best for me and my family?

As usual the communists will take what they want damn the consequences....

The difference between socialism and communism is quite a gap!.

It's like saying the Tories are a shade away from the Nazi party!

There's a whole spectrum, it's not just anyone right is a Nazi and anyone left is a communist!

Like saying Germany who has a state run power company, or Canada... There not communists!

It is possible to own things as a country without being communist FFS "

Well put, whilst I don't personally believe that governments are particularly good at running businesses for the benefit of anyone I do agree that governments around the world do run businesses and that that does not make them communists.

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By *nleashedCraken OP   Man
over a year ago

Widnes


"Lol, you know what makes me chuckle, people actually think there's politicians who aren't run by big business!.

Take a good look around people... Your government is run by big business and has been for years!!

The only people who aren't run by big business are the so called fringe loonies..... You know people that come up with ideas to solve shit like global warming.. Fuck off you fringe loonies with your less flying... That's inhibiting my profit on jumbos and golf trips and night races in Dubai... Where the fuck would the world be without important shit like cheap nasty plastic shite from China full of PCP,s for your children to suck on and clever manipulative paedophilic marketing of ten year olds girls for xmas singles by Simon cowel.... Only in a world this shit, could environmentalists and trade unionists be seen as fringe loonies!

Globalism had a leverage buy out forty fucking years ago, you lot are robots who's only use is buying shit and quite frankly when the system goes tits up, you'll be completely dispensable"

Not quite as convincing as your last post on communism.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 28/07/15 01:14:23]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

There are no strong leaders, the best one that won elections was tony. Bring him back. Nice guy too.

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk


"There are no strong leaders, the best one that won elections was tony. Bring him back. Nice guy too."

Mr B. Liar? You *have* to be joking?!

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock


"And is this a good or bad thing for Britain?"

Labour party is already on its last legs, its been highly amusing watching them self destruct since the election. I hope they get Corbyn as leader, it will be the final nail in the coffin for Labour.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"There are no strong leaders, the best one that won elections was tony. Bring him back. Nice guy too.

Mr B. Liar? You *have* to be joking?!"
Don't all politicians lie? He won 418 seats which was the most ever seats anyone have won and also won 2 elections. If it was a head on race I think he would of won over Cameron easy.

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk


"And is this a good or bad thing for Britain?

Labour party is already on its last legs, its been highly amusing watching them self destruct since the election. I hope they get Corbyn as leader, it will be the final nail in the coffin for Labour. "

That might be a good thing, corrupt, greedy, self-serving bastards that they are. Just the same as the Tories with different colour rosettes.

A half decent opposition may rise from the ashes. We certainly bloody need one.

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By *nleashedCraken OP   Man
over a year ago

Widnes

I think the real problem here is that Labour, and many to the left of Labour, believe that the electorate made a mistake. Regrettably for both Labour and the country, the electorate never makes mistakes. Until Labour, and those to the left of Labour, realises that they will not see power again for a very long time.

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk


"There are no strong leaders, the best one that won elections was tony. Bring him back. Nice guy too.

Mr B. Liar? You *have* to be joking?!Don't all politicians lie? He won 418 seats which was the most ever seats anyone have won and also won 2 elections. If it was a head on race I think he would of won over Cameron easy."

Nice guy though??? Did you forget what he actually did?

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By *nleashedCraken OP   Man
over a year ago

Widnes


"And is this a good or bad thing for Britain?

Labour party is already on its last legs, its been highly amusing watching them self destruct since the election. I hope they get Corbyn as leader, it will be the final nail in the coffin for Labour.

That might be a good thing, corrupt, greedy, self-serving bastards that they are. Just the same as the Tories with different colour rosettes.

A half decent opposition may rise from the ashes. We certainly bloody need one."

Unfortunately I think Labour was the best half decent opposition and alternative government that you're likely to see in the next 20 years.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

By paying taxes and voting for the Lib-Lab-Con, you are supporting the criminal government class, and helping them deprive you of everything you once had.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"There are no strong leaders, the best one that won elections was tony. Bring him back. Nice guy too.

Mr B. Liar? You *have* to be joking?!Don't all politicians lie? He won 418 seats which was the most ever seats anyone have won and also won 2 elections. If it was a head on race I think he would of won over Cameron easy.

Nice guy though??? Did you forget what he actually did?"
Yes and I know and about the Iraq war back in the days, that was one of his bad decisions.

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By *nleashedCraken OP   Man
over a year ago

Widnes


"There are no strong leaders, the best one that won elections was tony. Bring him back. Nice guy too.

Mr B. Liar? You *have* to be joking?!Don't all politicians lie? He won 418 seats which was the most ever seats anyone have won and also won 2 elections. If it was a head on race I think he would of won over Cameron easy.

Nice guy though??? Did you forget what he actually did?"

What he did was win elections and if you don't win elections it doesn't matter what you believe or say because you never get the chance to put it into practice.

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk


"And is this a good or bad thing for Britain?

Labour party is already on its last legs, its been highly amusing watching them self destruct since the election. I hope they get Corbyn as leader, it will be the final nail in the coffin for Labour.

That might be a good thing, corrupt, greedy, self-serving bastards that they are. Just the same as the Tories with different colour rosettes.

A half decent opposition may rise from the ashes. We certainly bloody need one.

Unfortunately I think Labour was the best half decent opposition and alternative government that you're likely to see in the next 20 years. "

That may well be true. If it is, I think the future, eventually, is going to get messy.

A growing number of people have had enough and many have nothing left to lose.

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By *nleashedCraken OP   Man
over a year ago

Widnes


"And is this a good or bad thing for Britain?

Labour party is already on its last legs, its been highly amusing watching them self destruct since the election. I hope they get Corbyn as leader, it will be the final nail in the coffin for Labour.

That might be a good thing, corrupt, greedy, self-serving bastards that they are. Just the same as the Tories with different colour rosettes.

A half decent opposition may rise from the ashes. We certainly bloody need one.

Unfortunately I think Labour was the best half decent opposition and alternative government that you're likely to see in the next 20 years.

That may well be true. If it is, I think the future, eventually, is going to get messy.

A growing number of people have had enough and many have nothing left to lose. "

I think you'll find you have a lot more to lose than you think. Unless you're going to take by force what you can not gain by the vote, anything further left than where Labour where is unlikely to get elected.

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By *nleashedCraken OP   Man
over a year ago

Widnes

Time for bed

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk


"And is this a good or bad thing for Britain?

Labour party is already on its last legs, its been highly amusing watching them self destruct since the election. I hope they get Corbyn as leader, it will be the final nail in the coffin for Labour.

That might be a good thing, corrupt, greedy, self-serving bastards that they are. Just the same as the Tories with different colour rosettes.

A half decent opposition may rise from the ashes. We certainly bloody need one.

Unfortunately I think Labour was the best half decent opposition and alternative government that you're likely to see in the next 20 years.

That may well be true. If it is, I think the future, eventually, is going to get messy.

A growing number of people have had enough and many have nothing left to lose.

I think you'll find you have a lot more to lose than you think. Unless you're going to take by force what you can not gain by the vote, anything further left than where Labour where is unlikely to get elected."

It's not about what I plan to do, at least not at this stage.

However, there are, as I say, a growing number of people who really have nothing left to lose. When seriously ill, even terminally ill, people are being evicted from their homes and turned out onto the street because they can't afford the bedroom tax, feelings can run rather high.

You can only push people so far.

I don't think a lot of people on here realise what life is like for those at the very bottom of the heap. The government scrounger propaganda has been incredibly effective.

More will start to realise with the changes to working tax credits now targeting the working poor. Eventually breaking point will be reached.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Socialism has been repressed by the Labour party for many years. What they fear now is a surge of support for a left wing candidate by a large number of people who have felt disenfranchised by the political elite of this country. Maybe he is not the man to lead the party into government, but he will make the others sit up and take notice when he garners support from so many ordinary people. Lets get Labour back on the side of working people!"

You may well be correct but the last election showed there are not enough centre left Labour supporters to get them back into power, let alone full lefties.

Labour will probably now turn into a protest party with little hope of ever again getting into parliament. It will then not be long before the Scots leave the UK either. Then unfettered Tory for as far as we can see. Perhaps they will eventually bring back slavery?

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By *uckandbunnyCouple
over a year ago

In your bed

Generally I don't think it matters too much. People keep talking about how terrible it is here. But have little concept of what being poor outside the UK means.

There are always doom mongers on all sides but generally we are doing OK as a country.

My concern over the next 50 years would not be around welfare. There will be changes but I think it will still be more egalitarian than the majority of the developed world.

My concern will be the NHS.

There is an unfettered demand for health care and at some point the drugs will get too costly. Only one of two things can happen we start listing treatments that are unavailable on the NHS or someone campaigns to keep funding for this drug or that and eventually bankrupts the whole system at which point we take on the US model.

I hope it's not the latter as I think free basic health care is really something to be proud of.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Lol, you know what makes me chuckle, people actually think there's politicians who aren't run by big business!.

Take a good look around people... Your government is run by big business and has been for years!!

The only people who aren't run by big business are the so called fringe loonies..... You know people that come up with ideas to solve shit like global warming.. Fuck off you fringe loonies with your less flying... That's inhibiting my profit on jumbos and golf trips and night races in Dubai... Where the fuck would the world be without important shit like cheap nasty plastic shite from China full of PCP,s for your children to suck on and clever manipulative paedophilic marketing of ten year olds girls for xmas singles by Simon cowel.... Only in a world this shit, could environmentalists and trade unionists be seen as fringe loonies!

Globalism had a leverage buy out forty fucking years ago, you lot are robots who's only use is buying shit and quite frankly when the system goes tits up, you'll be completely dispensable

Can we take it that you're not too keen on Jeremy Corbyn either?"
.

Corbyn is completely irrelevant, he will never see any power!

We've been following the American system for years now!

Money talks but it don't sing and dance and it don't walk.... But it definitely buys you elections

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

Lol I note that (most) all of you fell for the facile nature of the question.

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By *olgateMan
over a year ago

on the road to nowhere in particular

It's funny how these great defenders of democracy start bleating loudly when the process works against them

C...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Corbyn is the only candidate representing opposition.

These ideas that a strong left wing would be electoral suicide for Labour are laughable. The reason that the party were slaughtered at the last election was because they don't present as an opposition.

People also forget that Tony Blair was elected on a left wing platform in 1997 - it was 2000 onwards that he started shunting the party to the right."

You're right Tony Blair was elected on a left wing platform.

But not quite as left wing as calling Hamas and Hezbollah his friends and inviting them to speak in parliament.

Or inviting Sinn Fein to the houses of parliament when they were still regarded as a terrorist group.

Or hosting a visit by Moussa Abu Maria, activist for terror organisation Palestinian Islamic Jihad. The same Moussa Abu Maria who is speaking at an international lobby held by the Palestinian Solidarity Campaign, a group dedicated to the destruction of Israel.

Or being backed by militant unions like Unite and the RMT?

Even the (alleged) war criminal Tony Blair isn't/wasn't that left wing.

In the same way that the conservative party need a strong opposition, so does Corbyn.

I don't think milliband restructuring how members can join and vote for has helped though.

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By *olgateMan
over a year ago

on the road to nowhere in particular

A government is only as good as its opposition. The best example of how not to be an opposition leader was when Ian Duncan Smith said he was going to be "the quiet man of politics" it is the job of the opposition leader to point out to the government the flaws and failing in its policies. Although my own politics may appear to be diametrically opposed to Jeremy Corbyns, he is the only candidate actually talking policy and there does appear to be plenty of agreement with the centre ground.

C...

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

I'm just astonished at how many people who have no interest in Labour whatsoever are prepared to take time out of their busy lives to tell us we're picking the wrong guy.

Thanks.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"It's funny how these great defenders of democracy start bleating loudly when the process works against them

C..."
.

You know what the old Greek philosopher said!

Republics turn into democracies and democracies into tyranny, the majority is not always right, it's just the majority.

Of course the Greeks themselves turned into an oligarchy years ago and that's why there in the state there in today!.

Oligarchic government would work fine if the oligarch's couldn't fuck off somewhere else once they've fucked that place up!

We've definitely got to the oligarchic stage ourselves.... The last stage is tyranny. The Greeks knew that 2500 years ago!!

According to plato the democratic "man" is self absorbed in Rich's and what it buys him to rule!

The older I get the more I agree with him

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By *olgateMan
over a year ago

on the road to nowhere in particular

We are becoming a state that is governed by an amalgamation of Terminator and Rollerball Multinational conglomerates and skynet calling the shots as the power quietly slips away from the democratically elected politicians and more importantly, the people.

C...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"We are becoming a state that is governed by an amalgamation of Terminator and Rollerball Multinational conglomerates and skynet calling the shots as the power quietly slips away from the democratically elected politicians and more importantly, the people.

C..."
.

Absolutely, were in a plutocracy, the country is run for the 0.1%, anyone who thinks the Tories create policies for the middle classes are idiots.... They've just double taxed at the last budget and the vast majority of the double tax income is coming from 99% .

The west has just bailed out the very wealthiest people, they've gained the most from the bailout and now we've racked up that massive debt.... Who's fault is it?... Yeah that's right poor peoples and the working class and middle class are buying this bollocks!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"We are becoming a state that is governed by an amalgamation of Terminator and Rollerball Multinational conglomerates and skynet calling the shots as the power quietly slips away from the democratically elected politicians and more importantly, the people.

C....

Absolutely, were in a plutocracy, the country is run for the 0.1%, anyone who thinks the Tories create policies for the middle classes are idiots.... They've just double taxed at the last budget and the vast majority of the double tax income is coming from 99% .

The west has just bailed out the very wealthiest people, they've gained the most from the bailout and now we've racked up that massive debt.... Who's fault is it?... Yeah that's right poor peoples and the working class and middle class are buying this bollocks!"
......... Spot on.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire


"We are becoming a state that is governed by an amalgamation of Terminator and Rollerball Multinational conglomerates and skynet calling the shots as the power quietly slips away from the democratically elected politicians and more importantly, the people.

C....

Absolutely, were in a plutocracy, the country is run for the 0.1%, anyone who thinks the Tories create policies for the middle classes are idiots.... They've just double taxed at the last budget and the vast majority of the double tax income is coming from 99% .

The west has just bailed out the very wealthiest people, they've gained the most from the bailout and now we've racked up that massive debt.... Who's fault is it?... Yeah that's right poor peoples and the working class and middle class are buying this bollocks!"

pretty much agree..

does make me chuckle when the right wingers on here are castigating the left and praising the Tories who are shafting it to them also..

maybe twas ever thus..

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By *oachman 9CoolMan
over a year ago

derby

My dad said to me you always need Opposition against the party you vote For to give some creedance to the fact that There is always a party ready to jump in Your place if the vote go,s against you, And being a tory he said this, I,m sure Corbyn would be off his list as far as Being a party member was concerned, he Knew back then how much weight the unions and left wing carried, only not To see them watered Down to what they are today, it was not all one way traffic for my dad as Far as politics went, but I,m sure the politic,s of today would not amuse him At all..

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By *nleashedCraken OP   Man
over a year ago

Widnes


"I'm just astonished at how many people who have no interest in Labour whatsoever are prepared to take time out of their busy lives to tell us we're picking the wrong guy.

Thanks."

We all have an interest in the Labour party in exactly the same way that we all have an interest in the conservative party. They both are the two parties of government. If Labour fails to provide an effect opposition and possible alternative government then we effectively have a one party state. That's not good for Labour, Britain and ultimately the Conservative party either.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I'm just astonished at how many people who have no interest in Labour whatsoever are prepared to take time out of their busy lives to tell us we're picking the wrong guy.

Thanks.

We all have an interest in the Labour party in exactly the same way that we all have an interest in the conservative party. They both are the two parties of government. If Labour fails to provide an effect opposition and possible alternative government then we effectively have a one party state. That's not good for Labour, Britain and ultimately the Conservative party either."

This.

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By *olgateMan
over a year ago

on the road to nowhere in particular

A weak opposition is not good for anybody

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By *alandNitaCouple
over a year ago

Scunthorpe


"Who is he to decide what is best for me and my family?

"

There's always someone making that decision.. and it'd not you.

And privatisation was always the wrong idea. What they should gave done was make the public companies run to make a profit, like a real company.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Nope, it wasn't the fact that milliband was too left wing. I can't speak for everybody, but this former labour voter found the labour manifesto and the accompanying sound bites too ambiguous... So I spoiled. Some of us voted green but it was Scotland who dished out the punishment to labour (ta for that, I actually love you). Im not a member anymore so can't vote. I think a corbyn victory would unite the left and it's about time.

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

It's the right wing media spinning the labour leadership story, otherwise there's nothing to note really. We're just the media's puppets considering and discussing this.

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock


"We are becoming a state that is governed by an amalgamation of Terminator and Rollerball Multinational conglomerates and skynet calling the shots as the power quietly slips away from the democratically elected politicians and more importantly, the people.

C..."

Exactly why Britain needs to leave the EU. Look at Greece as am example when you keep handing more power over to Brussels.

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...


"I'm just astonished at how many people who have no interest in Labour whatsoever are prepared to take time out of their busy lives to tell us we're picking the wrong guy.

Thanks.

We all have an interest in the Labour party in exactly the same way that we all have an interest in the conservative party. They both are the two parties of government. If Labour fails to provide an effect opposition and possible alternative government then we effectively have a one party state. That's not good for Labour, Britain and ultimately the Conservative party either."

Although I despise the Labour party I would agree that every government needs a strong opposition. The electoral system works against UKIP. The Limp Dims are an irrelevance, so for now we need a united Labour party who can apply some checks and balances on the current administration.

Sadly I cannot see it being united any time soon and I can see it on a slippery slope back to the days of Derek Hatton & co.

I can't help having a bit of a giggle about it though.

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock


"I'm just astonished at how many people who have no interest in Labour whatsoever are prepared to take time out of their busy lives to tell us we're picking the wrong guy.

Thanks.

We all have an interest in the Labour party in exactly the same way that we all have an interest in the conservative party. They both are the two parties of government. If Labour fails to provide an effect opposition and possible alternative government then we effectively have a one party state. That's not good for Labour, Britain and ultimately the Conservative party either."

Sorry but the era of 2 party politics in this country is now well and truly dead. The SNP will now provide more of an effective opposition to the tories than Labour (the recent fox hunting amendment as an example). Plus you have ukip and the greens gaining more of the vote share in elections.

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...


"I'm just astonished at how many people who have no interest in Labour whatsoever are prepared to take time out of their busy lives to tell us we're picking the wrong guy.

Thanks.

We all have an interest in the Labour party in exactly the same way that we all have an interest in the conservative party. They both are the two parties of government. If Labour fails to provide an effect opposition and possible alternative government then we effectively have a one party state. That's not good for Labour, Britain and ultimately the Conservative party either.

Sorry but the era of 2 party politics in this country is now well and truly dead. The SNP will now provide more of an effective opposition to the tories than Labour (the recent fox hunting amendment as an example). Plus you have ukip and the greens gaining more of the vote share in elections. "

Fair comment, but as I said above the current electoral system does no favours to UKIP or even the Greens. Although the SNP are very strong in Scotland they will never get any more seats at Westminster than the have today.

So, like it or not, we are stuck with the Labour party as the leaders of the opposition, but I look forward to the day that they become just as irrelevant as the Limp Dims and newer more forward thinking party's are leading the opposition.

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By *nleashedCraken OP   Man
over a year ago

Widnes


"I'm just astonished at how many people who have no interest in Labour whatsoever are prepared to take time out of their busy lives to tell us we're picking the wrong guy.

Thanks.

We all have an interest in the Labour party in exactly the same way that we all have an interest in the conservative party. They both are the two parties of government. If Labour fails to provide an effect opposition and possible alternative government then we effectively have a one party state. That's not good for Labour, Britain and ultimately the Conservative party either.

Sorry but the era of 2 party politics in this country is now well and truly dead. The SNP will now provide more of an effective opposition to the tories than Labour (the recent fox hunting amendment as an example). Plus you have ukip and the greens gaining more of the vote share in elections. "

The problem with your analysis of the situation is that you seem to believe that a single issue party can have relevance once it's single issue is achieved. The reality is that if the SNP actually got number independents then it would no longer have anything to distinguish it from the left of Labour and similar for UKIP and the right of the Tory party.

There is no way a single issue party can ever become a realistic government once its issue has been won.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

In the words of Jack Sparrow;Take what ye can, and give nothing back. The electorate have declared their allegiance to post modern piracy and have exposed their pitiful social aspirations.

Come the revolution comrades.. The meek shall inherit the earth.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I suspect Corbyn is a principled individual who might just surprise a few people. Can he be any worse than Miliband or those he is up against? Maybe, just maybe he might be the shot in the arm Labour desperately needs? Listen to what he says, look at what he has stood for over the years and don't believe everything you read in the right leaning press.

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By *nleashedCraken OP   Man
over a year ago

Widnes


"I suspect Corbyn is a principled individual who might just surprise a few people. Can he be any worse than Miliband or those he is up against? Maybe, just maybe he might be the shot in the arm Labour desperately needs? Listen to what he says, look at what he has stood for over the years and don't believe everything you read in the right leaning press. "

I don't doubt his integrity or his principles, if I did I would be somewhat less worried, I just believe that what he says is totally wrong.

And I don't have to believe what I read about him because I have actually met him and many of his supporters, including John MacDonald.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Shouldn't it be 'New' Labour who's about to commit suicide?

If so, it's already dead!

More left but not to far (looney) left is so long overdue!

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By *bbandflowCouple
over a year ago

South Devon

He wears sandals has a beard, and his initials are JC..he must be the Messiah!

Back in '97 weren't we in thrall with Tony and a modern Labour party with no loony lefties, did we want Jeremy Corbyn then..No ..meanwhile he was sticking to his principles, his carpentry, the random miracle, and of course the political wilderness. Didn't we wallow in electoral success, indulge ourselves in Tony, Gordon, Mandy and co.

It couldn't last of course the electorate started doubting the sainted Tony, We still had Gordon though things would get better in those safe Scottish hands.

Alas the public became stupid again, Dave and his lapdog brought famine and pestilence to the land..Was there a Messiah out there ready to deliver us?..no, but there that nice Ed Milliband the prophet with his tablet of stone!

The heathens listened to the word of Dave again.

And we prayed for a Messiah and prayed.

Our prayers were answered!..from out of the wilderness came JC..Jeremy, Jeremy..he is the Messiah..he is the Messiah!

You couldn't make it up.

Sorry, of course Monty Python did

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"He wears sandals has a beard, and his initials are JC..he must be the Messiah!

Back in '97 weren't we in thrall with Tony and a modern Labour party with no loony lefties, did we want Jeremy Corbyn then..No ..meanwhile he was sticking to his principles, his carpentry, the random miracle, and of course the political wilderness. Didn't we wallow in electoral success, indulge ourselves in Tony, Gordon, Mandy and co.

It couldn't last of course the electorate started doubting the sainted Tony, We still had Gordon though things would get better in those safe Scottish hands.

Alas the public became stupid again, Dave and his lapdog brought famine and pestilence to the land..Was there a Messiah out there ready to deliver us?..no, but there that nice Ed Milliband the prophet with his tablet of stone!

The heathens listened to the word of Dave again.

And we prayed for a Messiah and prayed.

Our prayers were answered!..from out of the wilderness came JC..Jeremy, Jeremy..he is the Messiah..he is the Messiah!

You couldn't make it up.

Sorry, of course Monty Python did"

I like it!!

To elaborate, Tony was to the political right of Gordon so when Gordon gained power on a "Your turn" ticket we had a problem.

He used most of the wood for the Arc to build cheap houses, skis, surfboards, rocking chairs, etc. for the poor so when the flood came there were too many people and not enough wood to build a rescue ship that was big enough for all.

Then, when Carol Kirkwood's ancestor said a flood was finally coming, we had to borrow wood from all over the world to make ships and needless to say had to give it to the ship builders so we could all survive. The ship builders, who were almost out of business at tge time, made a packet on the deal.

Dave and his minion had to plant saplings so the wood can be repaid.

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By *bbandflowCouple
over a year ago

South Devon


"He wears sandals has a beard, and his initials are JC..he must be the Messiah!

Back in '97 weren't we in thrall with Tony and a modern Labour party with no loony lefties, did we want Jeremy Corbyn then..No ..meanwhile he was sticking to his principles, his carpentry, the random miracle, and of course the political wilderness. Didn't we wallow in electoral success, indulge ourselves in Tony, Gordon, Mandy and co.

It couldn't last of course the electorate started doubting the sainted Tony, We still had Gordon though things would get better in those safe Scottish hands.

Alas the public became stupid again, Dave and his lapdog brought famine and pestilence to the land..Was there a Messiah out there ready to deliver us?..no, but there that nice Ed Milliband the prophet with his tablet of stone!

The heathens listened to the word of Dave again.

And we prayed for a Messiah and prayed.

Our prayers were answered!..from out of the wilderness came JC..Jeremy, Jeremy..he is the Messiah..he is the Messiah!

You couldn't make it up.

Sorry, of course Monty Python did

I like it!!

To elaborate, Tony was to the political right of Gordon so when Gordon gained power on a "Your turn" ticket we had a problem.

He used most of the wood for the Arc to build cheap houses, skis, surfboards, rocking chairs, etc. for the poor so when the flood came there were too many people and not enough wood to build a rescue ship that was big enough for all.

Then, when Carol Kirkwood's ancestor said a flood was finally coming, we had to borrow wood from all over the world to make ships and needless to say had to give it to the ship builders so we could all survive. The ship builders, who were almost out of business at tge time, made a packet on the deal.

Dave and his minion had to plant saplings so the wood can be repaid. "

Just wait until JC sorts out the moneylenders

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West


"And is this a good or bad thing for Britain?"

Don't know about it being a good thing for Britain, but it certainly appears like it could be a good thing for the Conservatives.

If Corbyn gets elected as Leader, I see the Labour Party fracturing into two sects and possibly splitting into two Parties. One Social Democratic "Nu Labour" Party and another truly left wing Labour Party supported by the intransigent public sector Unions.

In turn this means that the opposition will be split further into Social Democrats, Labour, Lib Dems, UKIP and Greens as well as the SNP.

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West


"Anything that stops the myth of centrist politics, which perpetuates the growing chasm between rich and others is a good thing.

The only reason there's this discussion is because the right wing media has created this story. Our opinions are driven by them.

I have no clue who is the best leader for that party, but it is probably not the person we're being led to think that it should be.

Someone for employment rights, our NHS, home rental price controls, like in Germany and other countries and rejection of the neocapitalist agenda would be about right for labour. And for urgent global warming action.

Forget the spin, if you're not a labour party member. I'm not."

What about the left wing media? Does nobody buy those papers anymore? Are they an irrelevance? I wonder if there is a reason for that.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

About to!!! It already has and their far left Mr Corbyn will make matters worse for them. I think its great news as I don't think they will be in power again in my lifetime!!

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By *nleashedCraken OP   Man
over a year ago

Widnes


"He wears sandals has a beard, and his initials are JC..he must be the Messiah!

Back in '97 weren't we in thrall with Tony and a modern Labour party with no loony lefties, did we want Jeremy Corbyn then..No ..meanwhile he was sticking to his principles, his carpentry, the random miracle, and of course the political wilderness. Didn't we wallow in electoral success, indulge ourselves in Tony, Gordon, Mandy and co.

It couldn't last of course the electorate started doubting the sainted Tony, We still had Gordon though things would get better in those safe Scottish hands.

Alas the public became stupid again, Dave and his lapdog brought famine and pestilence to the land..Was there a Messiah out there ready to deliver us?..no, but there that nice Ed Milliband the prophet with his tablet of stone!

The heathens listened to the word of Dave again.

And we prayed for a Messiah and prayed.

Our prayers were answered!..from out of the wilderness came JC..Jeremy, Jeremy..he is the Messiah..he is the Messiah!

You couldn't make it up.

Sorry, of course Monty Python did

I like it!!

To elaborate, Tony was to the political right of Gordon so when Gordon gained power on a "Your turn" ticket we had a problem.

He used most of the wood for the Arc to build cheap houses, skis, surfboards, rocking chairs, etc. for the poor so when the flood came there were too many people and not enough wood to build a rescue ship that was big enough for all.

Then, when Carol Kirkwood's ancestor said a flood was finally coming, we had to borrow wood from all over the world to make ships and needless to say had to give it to the ship builders so we could all survive. The ship builders, who were almost out of business at tge time, made a packet on the deal.

Dave and his minion had to plant saplings so the wood can be repaid.

Just wait until JC sorts out the moneylenders "

If having the initials JC is the main criteria for being the saviour of Labour and left maybe Jeremy Clarkson should stand. I believe he's currently available!;

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"If having the initials JC is the main criteria for being the saviour of Labour and left maybe Jeremy Clarkson should stand. I believe he's currently available!;"

nope, Clarkson has just cut a deal with Amazon

roll on 2016

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

Makes you wonder where we'd be if John Smith hadn't've died...?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"If having the initials JC is the main criteria for being the saviour of Labour and left maybe Jeremy Clarkson should stand. I believe he's currently available!;

nope, Clarkson has just cut a deal with Amazon

roll on 2016"

That's a bit of a come down, what's he doing, stacking shelves?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Its good to have strong opposition in parliament, but I hope we never have another socialist government

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


"Makes you wonder where we'd be if John Smith hadn't've died...?"

And Robin Cook and Donald Dewar.

Fine men. The best of us.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"He wears sandals has a beard, and his initials are JC..he must be the Messiah!

Back in '97 weren't we in thrall with Tony and a modern Labour party with no loony lefties, did we want Jeremy Corbyn then..No ..meanwhile he was sticking to his principles, his carpentry, the random miracle, and of course the political wilderness. Didn't we wallow in electoral success, indulge ourselves in Tony, Gordon, Mandy and co.

It couldn't last of course the electorate started doubting the sainted Tony, We still had Gordon though things would get better in those safe Scottish hands.

Alas the public became stupid again, Dave and his lapdog brought famine and pestilence to the land..Was there a Messiah out there ready to deliver us?..no, but there that nice Ed Milliband the prophet with his tablet of stone!

The heathens listened to the word of Dave again.

And we prayed for a Messiah and prayed.

Our prayers were answered!..from out of the wilderness came JC..Jeremy, Jeremy..he is the Messiah..he is the Messiah!

You couldn't make it up.

Sorry, of course Monty Python did"

Blasphemy, JC = John Cleese of course!!

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By *aughtyinguMan
over a year ago

swindon

On the privitisation thing, one of the places I go has roughly the same route for 3 bus companies, is a return or day rider transferable? Nope.

I don't like the torys at all either :/

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By *bbandflowCouple
over a year ago

South Devon


"Makes you wonder where we'd be if John Smith hadn't've died...?

And Robin Cook and Donald Dewar.

Fine men. The best of us."

Labour politicians de facto the best of us...of course why do we even try.

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By *nleashedCraken OP   Man
over a year ago

Widnes


"On the privitisation thing, one of the places I go has roughly the same route for 3 bus companies, is a return or day rider transferable? Nope.

I don't like the torys at all either :/"

It's not really a matter of what you like or don't like. Personally I quite like Corbyn; he reminds me of my favorite uncle. What it is is what you believe is right and best.

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By *alandriaTV/TS
over a year ago

Nottingham

To quote that old Radiohead Song : 'When I am King you will be first against the wall'.

Now I thought socialism was all about respect for man...Ohhh..

Love

J Stalin(lib/dem)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Exactly why Britain needs to leave the EU. Look at Greece as am example when you keep handing more power over to Brussels. "

you mean rUK may want to leave; Scotland is staying, with or without you

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

So it appears labour feel our government should demand compensation from the French government for any disruption to British business caused by the situation in Calais ....

Yeah like that's a great plan...like that's really-really gonna help matters...

Fuk-sake......

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By *landAnnCouple
over a year ago

Inverness


"Makes you wonder where we'd be if John Smith hadn't've died...?

And Robin Cook and Donald Dewar.

Fine men. The best of us."

-----------------

Fully agree, but when TB took over 'New' Labour lurched violently to the right, closer and closer to Maggie Thatcher type politics.... and away from the people they were supposed to represent....

-----------------

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Hopefully they haven't been a credible representation for the working people in a long time now but are so tied into the unions that they're stuck with each other.

If they could implode hopefully the big unions will become more mercenary with third funding and start getting better conditions for workers by backing parties that will actually support them.

It's become an issue of garranteed support and so nothing needs to be given back from the party.

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By *bbandflowCouple
over a year ago

South Devon


"Makes you wonder where we'd be if John Smith hadn't've died...?

And Robin Cook and Donald Dewar.

Fine men. The best of us.

-----------------

Fully agree, but when TB took over 'New' Labour lurched violently to the right, closer and closer to Maggie Thatcher type politics.... and away from the people they were supposed to represent....

-----------------"

How does that work?..they were voted in by people who wanted them to represent policies presented in their manifesto...and they continued to do so for a further two elections..it's called democracy

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

About time they changed to give its own identity instead of copying tory to win votes

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Very true

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By *bbandflowCouple
over a year ago

South Devon


"About time they changed to give its own identity instead of copying tory to win votes "

So nobody from the 'working classes' voted for the Blair governments?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Seeing how well communism has worked out for Russian's, the Chinese and Vietnames I prey he doesn't ever get in power.

Where would he get the money to buy back the power companies, water, railways, Royal Mail etc.

He has already stated that the government should do what is best for the people... Who is he to decide what is best for me and my family?

As usual the communists will take what they want damn the consequences..."

Gosh those are the successful ones - what about north korea, cuba and Romania? Yes I know Romania financially collapsed and is capitalist again but most countries financially collapse when they go too far off the political middle.

The difference between extreme right and extreme left is semantics. Neither give a shit about liberty which makes all their other doctrine irrelevant

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By *bbandflowCouple
over a year ago

South Devon

[Removed by poster at 02/08/15 09:22:52]

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By *erbyDalesCplCouple
over a year ago

Derbyshire


"So it appears labour feel our government should demand compensation from the French government for any disruption to British business caused by the situation in Calais ....

Yeah like that's a great plan...like that's really-really gonna help matters...

Fuk-sake...... "

Typical Labour mischief-making.

Bearing in mind the main trouble is caused by striking ferry workers (if that's not an oxymoron) Labour,more than anyone, should realise that workers are allowed to strike.

I don't recall them offering compensation when the tube drivers are on strike.

Just proves they're still not a credible party of government.

Mr ddc

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Communist! You probably thought Ed Milliband was a left winger, too! "

He did only get into power with the block votes of left wing Union leaders....so yes. Compared to Bliar he was left wing...the most left wing of the options at the time.

The big Union bosses are lining up behind Corbyn now...they see him as their chance of levering more power back....we could go back to the late 70's when the left wing unions had the country by the bollocks and inflation was at 27% with unburied bodies and weeks worth of rubbish clogging up our streets. Bring it on!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Communist! You probably thought Ed Milliband was a left winger, too!

He did only get into power with the block votes of left wing Union leaders....so yes. Compared to Bliar he was left wing...the most left wing of the options at the time.

The big Union bosses are lining up behind Corbyn now...they see him as their chance of levering more power back....we could go back to the late 70's when the left wing unions had the country by the bollocks and inflation was at 27% with unburied bodies and weeks worth of rubbish clogging up our streets. Bring it on!"

But at least they had principles and good intentions then

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West


"Hopefully they haven't been a credible representation for the working people in a long time now but are so tied into the unions that they're stuck with each other.

If they could implode hopefully the big unions will become more mercenary with third funding and start getting better conditions for workers by backing parties that will actually support them.

It's become an issue of garranteed support and so nothing needs to be given back from the party."

The start of globalisation was in the 1970's and much of Britains big industry was incapable of meaningful modernisation and change. The country was virtually brought to a standstill in the mid 1970's and was known throughout the world as the sick man of Europe. Unions that demand rights and conditions for their workers that ignore global market conditions are only going to eventually put that business and ultimately the industry out of business, or out of the UK. The British shipping industry and heavy machining and steel industries are perfect examples of this. Today, Unions are only effective where they can hold the general public to ransom and the result is that much of our government administration, transport and general infrastructure is inefficient.

If you really want Unions to force employers to pay more than the Job is worth, give more holidays and better conditions just because you live in Britain. Be prepared for a failing society again, just as it was in the 1970's

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Communist! You probably thought Ed Milliband was a left winger, too!

He did only get into power with the block votes of left wing Union leaders....so yes. Compared to Bliar he was left wing...the most left wing of the options at the time.

The big Union bosses are lining up behind Corbyn now...they see him as their chance of levering more power back....we could go back to the late 70's when the left wing unions had the country by the bollocks and inflation was at 27% with unburied bodies and weeks worth of rubbish clogging up our streets. Bring it on!

But at least they had principles and good intentions then"

Principles and good intentions are all well and good....but not when they destroyed British industry and competitiveness.....

Good intentions don't pay the bills!

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Communist! You probably thought Ed Milliband was a left winger, too!

He did only get into power with the block votes of left wing Union leaders....so yes. Compared to Bliar he was left wing...the most left wing of the options at the time.

The big Union bosses are lining up behind Corbyn now...they see him as their chance of levering more power back....we could go back to the late 70's when the left wing unions had the country by the bollocks and inflation was at 27% with unburied bodies and weeks worth of rubbish clogging up our streets. Bring it on!

But at least they had principles and good intentions then

Principles and good intentions are all well and good....but not when they destroyed British industry and competitiveness.....

Good intentions don't pay the bills!"

Glad to see people picking up on the sarcasm. Well the only good thing anyone has to say about JC is how nice his principles are so me, being stupid, assumed that must be an important factor in what makes a successful politician. I didn't realise that being economically successful was also a factor because there's about a snowball in hell's chance of him being good at that.

But I'm obviously too dumb to understand this compilcated politicy stuff because I voted for Tony Blair, like the majority of the population, 3 times in a row. But and now we all know he was the anti-christ and his name is a dirty word. So we can't talk about any of the good he did, like granting independence to the monetary policy committee so politicians couldn't interfere with interest rates, because he made a whopper of a mistake in 11-ish years along with most other politicians at the time.

So naturally most people are dumb but there's hope because there are a vocal minority of smart people that know something we don't.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock


"

Exactly why Britain needs to leave the EU. Look at Greece as am example when you keep handing more power over to Brussels.

you mean rUK may want to leave; Scotland is staying, with or without you"

Scotland voted to stay part of the uk. If the uk as a whole votes to leave the EU, then that includes Scotland.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock


"So it appears labour feel our government should demand compensation from the French government for any disruption to British business caused by the situation in Calais ....

Yeah like that's a great plan...like that's really-really gonna help matters...

Fuk-sake...... "

The French are already saying they could just open the border up and let all the migrants through (More than they already are, lol) because of insulting language used by the Brits? This sort of talk from Labour really won't help.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Exactly why Britain needs to leave the EU. Look at Greece as am example when you keep handing more power over to Brussels.

you mean rUK may want to leave; Scotland is staying, with or without you

Scotland voted to stay part of the uk. If the uk as a whole votes to leave the EU, then that includes Scotland. "

No sunny Jim; if Scotland votes to stay in; whilst rest of UK vote to leave, then that is an automatic mandate for another Independence referendum and this time the guidable no voters have seen through the hipped up lies and deceit of Tory and Labour sabotage against Scotland.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"So it appears labour feel our government should demand compensation from the French government for any disruption to British business caused by the situation in Calais ....

Yeah like that's a great plan...like that's really-really gonna help matters...

Fuk-sake......

The French are already saying they could just open the border up and let all the migrants through (More than they already are, lol) because of insulting language used by the Brits? This sort of talk from Labour really won't help. "

Whats your answer!

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *ammerdrillandcrackMan
over a year ago

Leeds

who cares ? they are crap like Liberals and ukip

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


"

Exactly why Britain needs to leave the EU. Look at Greece as am example when you keep handing more power over to Brussels.

you mean rUK may want to leave; Scotland is staying, with or without you

Scotland voted to stay part of the uk. If the uk as a whole votes to leave the EU, then that includes Scotland.

No sunny Jim; if Scotland votes to stay in; whilst rest of UK vote to leave, then that is an automatic mandate for another Independence referendum and this time the guidable no voters have seen through the hipped up lies and deceit of Tory and Labour sabotage against Scotland. "

Bollox. Spouting lies again and again don't make them truths , as Goebbels found to his cost.

There are no 'automatic mandates' for another referendum.

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock


"

Exactly why Britain needs to leave the EU. Look at Greece as am example when you keep handing more power over to Brussels.

you mean rUK may want to leave; Scotland is staying, with or without you

Scotland voted to stay part of the uk. If the uk as a whole votes to leave the EU, then that includes Scotland.

No sunny Jim; if Scotland votes to stay in; whilst rest of UK vote to leave, then that is an automatic mandate for another Independence referendum and this time the guidable no voters have seen through the hipped up lies and deceit of Tory and Labour sabotage against Scotland. "

I refer you to my post on the EU referendum thread.

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By *iewMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Angus & Findhorn


"

Exactly why Britain needs to leave the EU. Look at Greece as am example when you keep handing more power over to Brussels.

you mean rUK may want to leave; Scotland is staying, with or without you

Scotland voted to stay part of the uk. If the uk as a whole votes to leave the EU, then that includes Scotland.

No sunny Jim; if Scotland votes to stay in; whilst rest of UK vote to leave, then that is an automatic mandate for another Independence referendum and this time the guidable no voters have seen through the hipped up lies and deceit of Tory and Labour sabotage against Scotland. "

utter shite.......

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


"

Exactly why Britain needs to leave the EU. Look at Greece as am example when you keep handing more power over to Brussels.

you mean rUK may want to leave; Scotland is staying, with or without you

Scotland voted to stay part of the uk. If the uk as a whole votes to leave the EU, then that includes Scotland.

No sunny Jim; if Scotland votes to stay in; whilst rest of UK vote to leave, then that is an automatic mandate for another Independence referendum and this time the guidable no voters have seen through the hipped up lies and deceit of Tory and Labour sabotage against Scotland.

utter shite......."

Utter shite repeated from another thread.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West


"

Exactly why Britain needs to leave the EU. Look at Greece as am example when you keep handing more power over to Brussels.

you mean rUK may want to leave; Scotland is staying, with or without you

Scotland voted to stay part of the uk. If the uk as a whole votes to leave the EU, then that includes Scotland.

No sunny Jim; if Scotland votes to stay in; whilst rest of UK vote to leave, then that is an automatic mandate for another Independence referendum and this time the guidable no voters have seen through the hipped up lies and deceit of Tory and Labour sabotage against Scotland. "

It would appear that there is a gullible minority in Scotland who choose to believe the deception of Salmond and Sturgeon. For them, believing what they want to believe is always a more rallying option than believing the truth.

There is no automatic mandate for another referendum albeit clearly the SNP would want it sooner, rather than later and probably would like it during this five year "honeymoon".

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

utter shite......."

Rosie


"

Utter shite repeated from another thread."

and Jim

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


"

Exactly why Britain needs to leave the EU. Look at Greece as am example when you keep handing more power over to Brussels.

you mean rUK may want to leave; Scotland is staying, with or without you

Scotland voted to stay part of the uk. If the uk as a whole votes to leave the EU, then that includes Scotland.

No sunny Jim; if Scotland votes to stay in; whilst rest of UK vote to leave, then that is an automatic mandate for another Independence referendum and this time the guidable no voters have seen through the hipped up lies and deceit of Tory and Labour sabotage against Scotland.

It would appear that there is a gullible minority in Scotland who choose to believe the deception of Salmond and Sturgeon. For them, believing what they want to believe is always a more rallying option than believing the truth.

There is no automatic mandate for another referendum albeit clearly the SNP would want it sooner, rather than later and probably would like it during this five year "honeymoon". "

The LAST thing the Nats want is another Referendum. They'd lose by an even bigger margin than last time. What they want is the threat of another referendum.

It keeps the focus off the Scottish Executive complete inability to run the country.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

It keeps the focus off the Scottish Executive complete inability to run the country."

so?

who can do it better, and by what method?

cards on the table, you always whinge so lets hear

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By *iewMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Angus & Findhorn


"

utter shite.......

Rosie

Utter shite repeated from another thread.

and Jim

"

as funny as your political posts

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...


"

It keeps the focus off the Scottish Executive complete inability to run the country.

so?

who can do it better, and by what method?

cards on the table, you always whinge so lets hear"

Actually the answer to that one is quite simple.

Should Scotland go it alone and be allowed into the EU (which in itself is very doubtful) then Brussels will be doing the job.

If an independent Scotland is not allowed to re-join the EU then it would only be a matter of time before the IMF are doing it.

The SNP's tax and spend, borrow and spend, then spend a bit more policy's would blow up in Scotland's face very quickly.

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

I would add that in the last referendum Salmond's figures were based on an oil price of over $100 per barrel, and they didn't add up then.

Now the oil price is under $52 per barrel.

Independence based on a falling price of a dwindling resource is the road to Greece.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


"

It keeps the focus off the Scottish Executive complete inability to run the country.

so?

who can do it better, and by what method?

cards on the table, you always whinge so lets hear"

That's your answer to 'the SNP are shite'? So?

The Nats have but one interest - independence.

All policies are measured - not by how will this benefit Scotland and her people - but by - will this help bring independence?

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock


"So it appears labour feel our government should demand compensation from the French government for any disruption to British business caused by the situation in Calais ....

Yeah like that's a great plan...like that's really-really gonna help matters...

Fuk-sake......

The French are already saying they could just open the border up and let all the migrants through (More than they already are, lol) because of insulting language used by the Brits? This sort of talk from Labour really won't help.

Whats your answer!"

More tougher higher fencing and more security guards patrolling around the clock, floodlighting so they cant sneak in under cover of darkness and more cctv, which is already being done now. As a British taxpayer I'd be happy for my taxes to be spent on those measures. I would also seriously consider sending the army in to sort it out. It seems these measures maybe working as I read in reports in the paper today some migrants are now heading to Belgium instead.

Slagging the french off and demanding compensation as Labour are doing really won't help.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *landAnnCouple
over a year ago

Inverness


"Makes you wonder where we'd be if John Smith hadn't've died...?

And Robin Cook and Donald Dewar.

Fine men. The best of us.

-----------------

Fully agree, but when TB took over 'New' Labour lurched violently to the right, closer and closer to Maggie Thatcher type politics.... and away from the people they were supposed to represent....

-----------------

How does that work?..they were voted in by people who wanted them to represent policies presented in their manifesto...and they continued to do so for a further two elections..it's called democracy"

Maybe I missed something... but I don't recall seeing 'Invade Iraq' on any New Labour manifesto..?

TB conned everyone... he sold himself (very convincinly) to a population who hoped, and believed, he would deliver something better than Maggies greed culture.

He was nothing more than a sharp-suited, silver tongued salesman.... and now labour are paying the price.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


"Makes you wonder where we'd be if John Smith hadn't've died...?

And Robin Cook and Donald Dewar.

Fine men. The best of us.

-----------------

Fully agree, but when TB took over 'New' Labour lurched violently to the right, closer and closer to Maggie Thatcher type politics.... and away from the people they were supposed to represent....

-----------------

How does that work?..they were voted in by people who wanted them to represent policies presented in their manifesto...and they continued to do so for a further two elections..it's called democracy

Maybe I missed something... but I don't recall seeing 'Invade Iraq' on any New Labour manifesto..?

TB conned everyone... he sold himself (very convincinly) to a population who hoped, and believed, he would deliver something better than Maggies greed culture.

He was nothing more than a sharp-suited, silver tongued salesman.... and now labour are paying the price."

It's a manifesto - not a 100% accurate crystal ball.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *bbandflowCouple
over a year ago

South Devon


"Makes you wonder where we'd be if John Smith hadn't've died...?

And Robin Cook and Donald Dewar.

Fine men. The best of us.

-----------------

Fully agree, but when TB took over 'New' Labour lurched violently to the right, closer and closer to Maggie Thatcher type politics.... and away from the people they were supposed to represent....

-----------------

How does that work?..they were voted in by people who wanted them to represent policies presented in their manifesto...and they continued to do so for a further two elections..it's called democracy

Maybe I missed something... but I don't recall seeing 'Invade Iraq' on any New Labour manifesto..?

TB conned everyone... he sold himself (very convincinly) to a population who hoped, and believed, he would deliver something better than Maggies greed culture.

He was nothing more than a sharp-suited, silver tongued salesman.... and now labour are paying the price."

Ludicrous..do you really believe invading Iraq would be in any parties manifesto? maybe it would be more informative if you answered the point I was making..

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire


"

Maybe I missed something... but I don't recall seeing 'Invade Iraq' on any New Labour manifesto..?

He was nothing more than a sharp-suited, silver tongued salesman.... and now labour are paying the price."

No party goes into an election and states what they may do if x, y or z happens, a bit like Cameron not doing the same about the involvement in Libya and Syria..

and i speak as someone who opposed the 02 war and went on the march to protest..

and again he was a bit of a slick operator but his tenure has nothing to do with the position Labour find themselves in post the election in May..

did you miss his input of late or something..?

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *landAnnCouple
over a year ago

Inverness


"Makes you wonder where we'd be if John Smith hadn't've died...?

And Robin Cook and Donald Dewar.

Fine men. The best of us.

-----------------

Fully agree, but when TB took over 'New' Labour lurched violently to the right, closer and closer to Maggie Thatcher type politics.... and away from the people they were supposed to represent....

-----------------

How does that work?..they were voted in by people who wanted them to represent policies presented in their manifesto...and they continued to do so for a further two elections..it's called democracy

Maybe I missed something... but I don't recall seeing 'Invade Iraq' on any New Labour manifesto..?

TB conned everyone... he sold himself (very convincinly) to a population who hoped, and believed, he would deliver something better than Maggies greed culture.

He was nothing more than a sharp-suited, silver tongued salesman.... and now labour are paying the price.

Ludicrous..do you really believe invading Iraq would be in any parties manifesto? maybe it would be more informative if you answered the point I was making.."

------------------

Tony Blair was voted in by a hopeful population. Hopeful that he would deliver something better than Maggie T had... but he gave them more of the same... and worse.

He skillfully steered New Labour to be nothing more than clones of the Tories... and thats exactly where they are today, unelectable because they are simply the Tories in disguise.

Corbyn might at least put up some opposition... and bring some principle back into uk politics.

I don't believe voters left Labour.

Labour left its voters.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"So it appears labour feel our government should demand compensation from the French government for any disruption to British business caused by the situation in Calais ....

Yeah like that's a great plan...like that's really-really gonna help matters...

Fuk-sake......

The French are already saying they could just open the border up and let all the migrants through (More than they already are, lol) because of insulting language used by the Brits? This sort of talk from Labour really won't help.

Whats your answer!

More tougher higher fencing and more security guards patrolling around the clock, floodlighting so they cant sneak in under cover of darkness and more cctv, which is already being done now. As a British taxpayer I'd be happy for my taxes to be spent on those measures. I would also seriously consider sending the army in to sort it out. It seems these measures maybe working as I read in reports in the paper today some migrants are now heading to Belgium instead.

Slagging the french off and demanding compensation as Labour are doing really won't help. "

Sending the army in to, errrrm France? What? Have I missed something here? Are we on the verge of a European war? Or is this post just another bad dream?

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock


"So it appears labour feel our government should demand compensation from the French government for any disruption to British business caused by the situation in Calais ....

Yeah like that's a great plan...like that's really-really gonna help matters...

Fuk-sake......

The French are already saying they could just open the border up and let all the migrants through (More than they already are, lol) because of insulting language used by the Brits? This sort of talk from Labour really won't help.

Whats your answer!

More tougher higher fencing and more security guards patrolling around the clock, floodlighting so they cant sneak in under cover of darkness and more cctv, which is already being done now. As a British taxpayer I'd be happy for my taxes to be spent on those measures. I would also seriously consider sending the army in to sort it out. It seems these measures maybe working as I read in reports in the paper today some migrants are now heading to Belgium instead.

Slagging the french off and demanding compensation as Labour are doing really won't help.

Sending the army in to, errrrm France? What? Have I missed something here? Are we on the verge of a European war? Or is this post just another bad dream? "

Send the army in with the consent of the french of course. The french authorities look like they are struggling to cope.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *bbandflowCouple
over a year ago

South Devon


"Makes you wonder where we'd be if John Smith hadn't've died...?

And Robin Cook and Donald Dewar.

Fine men. The best of us.

-----------------

Fully agree, but when TB took over 'New' Labour lurched violently to the right, closer and closer to Maggie Thatcher type politics.... and away from the people they were supposed to represent....

-----------------

How does that work?..they were voted in by people who wanted them to represent policies presented in their manifesto...and they continued to do so for a further two elections..it's called democracy

Maybe I missed something... but I don't recall seeing 'Invade Iraq' on any New Labour manifesto..?

TB conned everyone... he sold himself (very convincinly) to a population who hoped, and believed, he would deliver something better than Maggies greed culture.

He was nothing more than a sharp-suited, silver tongued salesman.... and now labour are paying the price.

Ludicrous..do you really believe invading Iraq would be in any parties manifesto? maybe it would be more informative if you answered the point I was making..

------------------

Tony Blair was voted in by a hopeful population. Hopeful that he would deliver something better than Maggie T had... but he gave them more of the same... and worse.

He skillfully steered New Labour to be nothing more than clones of the Tories... and thats exactly where they are today, unelectable because they are simply the Tories in disguise.

Corbyn might at least put up some opposition... and bring some principle back into uk politics.

I don't believe voters left Labour.

Labour left its voters."

Tony Blair is the only Labour party to win three consecutive elections..the population ..that's stretching the definition of a hopeful electorate...Corbyn is the comfort blanket for those Labour supporters still in Keep the Red Flag flying aspic..

It will end in tears

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

TB conned everyone..."

What! Conned everyone three times!?! How stupid do you think everyone else is?

Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice...

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By *bbandflowCouple
over a year ago

South Devon


"

TB conned everyone...

What! Conned everyone three times!?! How stupid do you think everyone else is?

Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice... "

Exactly!..that's why they called it New Labour!....because it wasn't Old Labour...it's not a difficult thought process

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"So it appears labour feel our government should demand compensation from the French government for any disruption to British business caused by the situation in Calais ....

Yeah like that's a great plan...like that's really-really gonna help matters...

Fuk-sake......

The French are already saying they could just open the border up and let all the migrants through (More than they already are, lol) because of insulting language used by the Brits? This sort of talk from Labour really won't help.

Whats your answer!

More tougher higher fencing and more security guards patrolling around the clock, floodlighting so they cant sneak in under cover of darkness and more cctv, which is already being done now. As a British taxpayer I'd be happy for my taxes to be spent on those measures. I would also seriously consider sending the army in to sort it out. It seems these measures maybe working as I read in reports in the paper today some migrants are now heading to Belgium instead.

Slagging the french off and demanding compensation as Labour are doing really won't help.

Sending the army in to, errrrm France? What? Have I missed something here? Are we on the verge of a European war? Or is this post just another bad dream?

Send the army in with the consent of the french of course. The french authorities look like they are struggling to cope. "

And you're having a dig at the Labour party for slagging off the French! Yes, that proposal would go down well in France, I'm sure; do you have shares in military apparel/catering companies by any chance? . But yes, we should be paying alongside the French for far greater security in the area, after all it's in Britain's best interest to keep them out & France's to let them out, to be fair.

& why are the 'swarms' allowed to open up the back of trucks & clamber aboard whilst they're moving, - don't they have secure locking devices?

Seems all very strange to me!

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock


"So it appears labour feel our government should demand compensation from the French government for any disruption to British business caused by the situation in Calais ....

Yeah like that's a great plan...like that's really-really gonna help matters...

Fuk-sake......

The French are already saying they could just open the border up and let all the migrants through (More than they already are, lol) because of insulting language used by the Brits? This sort of talk from Labour really won't help.

Whats your answer!

More tougher higher fencing and more security guards patrolling around the clock, floodlighting so they cant sneak in under cover of darkness and more cctv, which is already being done now. As a British taxpayer I'd be happy for my taxes to be spent on those measures. I would also seriously consider sending the army in to sort it out. It seems these measures maybe working as I read in reports in the paper today some migrants are now heading to Belgium instead.

Slagging the french off and demanding compensation as Labour are doing really won't help.

Sending the army in to, errrrm France? What? Have I missed something here? Are we on the verge of a European war? Or is this post just another bad dream?

Send the army in with the consent of the french of course. The french authorities look like they are struggling to cope.

And you're having a dig at the Labour party for slagging off the French! Yes, that proposal would go down well in France, I'm sure; do you have shares in military apparel/catering companies by any chance? . But yes, we should be paying alongside the French for far greater security in the area, after all it's in Britain's best interest to keep them out & France's to let them out, to be fair.

& why are the 'swarms' allowed to open up the back of trucks & clamber aboard whilst they're moving, - don't they have secure locking devices?

Seems all very strange to me!"

Well the french have already accepted the offer to have extra security guards paid for by the brits so why not our army? They'll be doing the same job, only they will be soldiers and not security guards. I don't see how offering our army is an insult to them, i'm sure they would be happy for us to do the job, but demanding compensation from them as Harriet Harmen has suggested, how is that going to help, other than to alienate and annoy them?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"So it appears labour feel our government should demand compensation from the French government for any disruption to British business caused by the situation in Calais ....

Yeah like that's a great plan...like that's really-really gonna help matters...

Fuk-sake......

The French are already saying they could just open the border up and let all the migrants through (More than they already are, lol) because of insulting language used by the Brits? This sort of talk from Labour really won't help.

Whats your answer!

More tougher higher fencing and more security guards patrolling around the clock, floodlighting so they cant sneak in under cover of darkness and more cctv, which is already being done now. As a British taxpayer I'd be happy for my taxes to be spent on those measures. I would also seriously consider sending the army in to sort it out. It seems these measures maybe working as I read in reports in the paper today some migrants are now heading to Belgium instead.

Slagging the french off and demanding compensation as Labour are doing really won't help.

Sending the army in to, errrrm France? What? Have I missed something here? Are we on the verge of a European war? Or is this post just another bad dream?

Send the army in with the consent of the french of course. The french authorities look like they are struggling to cope.

And you're having a dig at the Labour party for slagging off the French! Yes, that proposal would go down well in France, I'm sure; do you have shares in military apparel/catering companies by any chance? . But yes, we should be paying alongside the French for far greater security in the area, after all it's in Britain's best interest to keep them out & France's to let them out, to be fair.

& why are the 'swarms' allowed to open up the back of trucks & clamber aboard whilst they're moving, - don't they have secure locking devices?

Seems all very strange to me!"

Cause truck doors are locked to stop them opening during transit and stop the odd passing thief, they're manned or moving most of the time they art designed for an equipped sustained violent assult.

Just like your front door, it's securely locked but can be opened in less than ten seconds by the police with a ram

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Jeremy Corbyn fan here. The Labour party is a left wing party. If Tony Bliar wants to set himself up a new right wing party so he can kettle street protesters and deregulate the banks then go for it... and maybe it'll be more electable than Labour... but the Labour party is what it is... it's left wing.. it's an OPPOSITION

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

A vote for anyone else is the equivalent of saying that the Green party, to be more electable, should stop being so bloomin' environmentalist

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


" an OPPOSITION "

Kinda admitting defeat there arnt you?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"A vote for anyone else is the equivalent of saying that the Green party, to be more electable, should stop being so bloomin' environmentalist "

One thing I don't get IPCC day we've past the point of no return on the green house effect and global warming it's now self sustaining so why the he'll are we cutting back?

We should now be increasing production and producing the Ness eery defences and counter measures for when the inevitable happens not putting the inevitable off by a few years

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock


"Jeremy Corbyn fan here. The Labour party is a left wing party. If Tony Bliar wants to set himself up a new right wing party so he can kettle street protesters and deregulate the banks then go for it... and maybe it'll be more electable than Labour... but the Labour party is what it is... it's left wing.. it's an OPPOSITION "

Not just Tony Blair though is it, Andy Burnham is now saying the Labour party could split if Corbyn wins. I thought Andy Burnham was Left wing, but he looks mild compared to Corbyn.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"So it appears labour feel our government should demand compensation from the French government for any disruption to British business caused by the situation in Calais ....

Yeah like that's a great plan...like that's really-really gonna help matters...

Fuk-sake......

The French are already saying they could just open the border up and let all the migrants through (More than they already are, lol) because of insulting language used by the Brits? This sort of talk from Labour really won't help.

Whats your answer!

More tougher higher fencing and more security guards patrolling around the clock, floodlighting so they cant sneak in under cover of darkness and more cctv, which is already being done now. As a British taxpayer I'd be happy for my taxes to be spent on those measures. I would also seriously consider sending the army in to sort it out. It seems these measures maybe working as I read in reports in the paper today some migrants are now heading to Belgium instead.

Slagging the french off and demanding compensation as Labour are doing really won't help.

Sending the army in to, errrrm France? What? Have I missed something here? Are we on the verge of a European war? Or is this post just another bad dream?

Send the army in with the consent of the french of course. The french authorities look like they are struggling to cope.

And you're having a dig at the Labour party for slagging off the French! Yes, that proposal would go down well in France, I'm sure; do you have shares in military apparel/catering companies by any chance? . But yes, we should be paying alongside the French for far greater security in the area, after all it's in Britain's best interest to keep them out & France's to let them out, to be fair.

& why are the 'swarms' allowed to open up the back of trucks & clamber aboard whilst they're moving, - don't they have secure locking devices?

Seems all very strange to me!

Well the french have already accepted the offer to have extra security guards paid for by the brits so why not our army? They'll be doing the same job, only they will be soldiers and not security guards. I don't see how offering our army is an insult to them, i'm sure they would be happy for us to do the job, but demanding compensation from them as Harriet Harmen has suggested, how is that going to help,

other than to alienate and annoy them? "

Yes but The Army? Can't you see how that could have a wine souring effect on the French people?

you know, history & stuff like that..............

Imagine how people would react here if the roles were reversed? Oh & the German army 'offered their services'!!

I'm living near the ocean but I still could probably hear the whining!

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


"Jeremy Corbyn fan here. The Labour party is a left wing party. If Tony Bliar wants to set himself up a new right wing party so he can kettle street protesters and deregulate the banks then go for it... and maybe it'll be more electable than Labour... but the Labour party is what it is... it's left wing.. it's an OPPOSITION

Not just Tony Blair though is it, Andy Burnham is now saying the Labour party could split if Corbyn wins. I thought Andy Burnham was Left wing, but he looks mild compared to Corbyn. "

You don't think Burnham has an interest in talking Corbyn down???????

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Cause truck doors are locked to stop them opening during transit and stop the odd passing thief, they're manned or moving most of the time they art designed for an equipped sustained violent assult. Just like your front door, it's securely locked but can be opened in less than ten seconds by the police."

Thanks for that.

Which only goes to show that trucks must be a huge security risk, - planting time bomb etc.........

Maybe that's a flaw in the design.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The challenge of the Labour party is not to get elected again. It's to make being left wing make sense again... and through that get elected again. If that's not possible... then I'd rather just vote for right wingers who actually believe in right wing ideas rather than a bunch of "left wingers" who are wearing right wing clothes just to get elected.

I don't buy the whole "we'll be right wing in a more left wing way". I tend to read that as "we'll be deliberately nasty to people, because that's what we think being right wing is about, but we'll just be less deliberately nasty than we imagine the evil right wingers would have been"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Only Corbyn understands that you start with the premise of being a left wing party and then you see how you can get elected from there... not vice versa

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


""Cause truck doors are locked to stop them opening during transit and stop the odd passing thief, they're manned or moving most of the time they art designed for an equipped sustained violent assult. Just like your front door, it's securely locked but can be opened in less than ten seconds by the police."

Thanks for that.

Which only goes to show that trucks must be a huge security risk, - planting time bomb etc.........

Maybe that's a flaw in the design."

Not many people want to bomb trucks :p

And if northern Ireland taught us anything it's that you just stick a car bomb underneath iirc some of the police over there are still told to check under their car each morning for ira devices.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


""Cause truck doors are locked to stop them opening during transit and stop the odd passing thief, they're manned or moving most of the time they art designed for an equipped sustained violent assult. Just like your front door, it's securely locked but can be opened in less than ten seconds by the police."

Thanks for that.

Which only goes to show that trucks must be a huge security risk, - planting time bomb etc.........

Maybe that's a flaw in the design.

Not many people want to bomb trucks :p

And if northern Ireland taught us anything it's that you just stick a car bomb underneath iirc some of the police over there are still told to check under their car each morning for ira devices."

The words 'time' & 'bomb' gave it away really, especially as trucks go on ferries & enter towns & cities ......... oh & strangely the channel tunnel wouldn't be a bad one either!!

Oh & I'm sure there'll be an Indian Osama Jones to tie a bomb underneath a truck whilst its moving too!!

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By *nleashedCraken OP   Man
over a year ago

Widnes


"The challenge of the Labour party is not to get elected again. It's to make being left wing make sense again... and through that get elected again. If that's not possible... then I'd rather just vote for right wingers who actually believe in right wing ideas rather than a bunch of "left wingers" who are wearing right wing clothes just to get elected.

I don't buy the whole "we'll be right wing in a more left wing way". I tend to read that as "we'll be deliberately nasty to people, because that's what we think being right wing is about, but we'll just be less deliberately nasty than we imagine the evil right wingers would have been" "

The biggest problem you, like a lot of left inclined, has is that you seem to genuinely believe that those to the right of you are somehow evil. This belief leaves you totally incapable of forming rational, reasonable arguments as to why people should not vote for them.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The challenge of the Labour party is not to get elected again. It's to make being left wing make sense again... and through that get elected again. If that's not possible... then I'd rather just vote for right wingers who actually believe in right wing ideas rather than a bunch of "left wingers" who are wearing right wing clothes just to get elected.

I don't buy the whole "we'll be right wing in a more left wing way". I tend to read that as "we'll be deliberately nasty to people, because that's what we think being right wing is about, but we'll just be less deliberately nasty than we imagine the evil right wingers would have been"

The biggest problem you, like a lot of left inclined, has is that you seem to genuinely believe that those to the right of you are somehow evil. This belief leaves you totally incapable of forming rational, reasonable arguments as to why people should not vote for them."
.

No the biggest problem is it's a piece of piss selling idiots right wing philosophy because right wing philosophy is entirely centred around individualism and all the great intrinsically linked natural sins of selfishness, greed, lust, sloth, anger and this great myth of work ethic.

Where as the very hard message of left wing philosophy involves giving up your hard earned money for the greater good of society, which is the only true instinct in any human.

We all crave being in a society, we just have a problem paying for it through any other means.

I mean people buy society all the time, tennis clubs, golf membership, gym clubs, cycling clubs, athletics clubs, social clubs.... Were in reality buying societal interaction.... No different than getting a membership on here!

The right wingers will have you believe that there's no penalty for neglecting the poor.

I say that's bollocks.... Take a look at the usa for evidence

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By *bbandflowCouple
over a year ago

South Devon


"The challenge of the Labour party is not to get elected again. It's to make being left wing make sense again... and through that get elected again. If that's not possible... then I'd rather just vote for right wingers who actually believe in right wing ideas rather than a bunch of "left wingers" who are wearing right wing clothes just to get elected.

I don't buy the whole "we'll be right wing in a more left wing way". I tend to read that as "we'll be deliberately nasty to people, because that's what we think being right wing is about, but we'll just be less deliberately nasty than we imagine the evil right wingers would have been"

The biggest problem you, like a lot of left inclined, has is that you seem to genuinely believe that those to the right of you are somehow evil. This belief leaves you totally incapable of forming rational, reasonable arguments as to why people should not vote for them..

No the biggest problem is it's a piece of piss selling idiots right wing philosophy because right wing philosophy is entirely centred around individualism and all the great intrinsically linked natural sins of selfishness, greed, lust, sloth, anger and this great myth of work ethic.

Where as the very hard message of left wing philosophy involves giving up your hard earned money for the greater good of society, which is the only true instinct in any human.

We all crave being in a society, we just have a problem paying for it through any other means.

I mean people buy society all the time, tennis clubs, golf membership, gym clubs, cycling clubs, athletics clubs, social clubs.... Were in reality buying societal interaction.... No different than getting a membership on here!

The right wingers will have you believe that there's no penalty for neglecting the poor.

I say that's bollocks.... Take a look at the usa for evidence"

I didn't vote for the labour Party at the last election.

How dare you accuse me of lack of compassion, putting my own selfish individual needs between my friends, family, work colleagues, and those I will never meet.

How dare you accuse me of not willingly contributing financially, and socially, to society.

How dare you put yourself as a better, caring human being than me simply because I didn't vote for the Labour party at the last election.

You dare because you have an intolerant, uninformed, bigoted sense of moral superiority that seeks to condemn a persons worth, not as a human individual, but as a political enemy.

And that is a philosophy that has, an continues to do, cause untold human misery

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

A right winger slags off the left then a leftie counter slags the right - followed by a how dare you from the right......

I haven't lived in the UK all of my life but I've yet to witness a political party whom gave a shit about anyone else but themselves!

Political modernisation & transparency is so badly needed but hasn't ever & probably will never happen, so what's new????

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By *arry247Couple
over a year ago

Wakefield


"

However, there are, as I say, a growing number of people who really have nothing left to lose. When seriously ill, even terminally ill, people are being evicted from their homes and turned out onto the street because they can't afford the bedroom tax, feelings can run rather high.

Just remind us again who brought in the bedroom tax?

Oh yes, that's right it was Labour.

Labour introduced and kept "bedroom tax" on people who rented from the private sector during Blair's leadership, hitting exactly the same people as the claim to be concerned about now.

"

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By *bbandflowCouple
over a year ago

South Devon


"A right winger slags off the left then a leftie counter slags the right - followed by a how dare you from the right......

I haven't lived in the UK all of my life but I've yet to witness a political party whom gave a shit about anyone else but themselves!

Political modernisation & transparency is so badly needed but hasn't ever & probably will never happen, so what's new????"

I am not from the right thank you...thought the point I was making was why do people demonise those who don't share their political _iews!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Every party is on the right bank imo, just some more left or right than others, - I'd like to see a proper Labour party (maybe that should be their new name?) that finds the happy left medium!

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By *erbyDalesCplCouple
over a year ago

Derbyshire


"

However, there are, as I say, a growing number of people who really have nothing left to lose. When seriously ill, even terminally ill, people are being evicted from their homes and turned out onto the street because they can't afford the bedroom tax, feelings can run rather high.

Just remind us again who brought in the bedroom tax?

Oh yes, that's right it was Labour.

Labour introduced and kept "bedroom tax" on people who rented from the private sector during Blair's leadership, hitting exactly the same people as the claim to be concerned about now.

"

When Labour introduced it in 2008, it was called your 'Local Housing Allowance', only when the Tories came in did Labour start calling it the 'Bedroom Tax'.

Typical Labour hypocrisy.

Mr ddc

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


"

However, there are, as I say, a growing number of people who really have nothing left to lose. When seriously ill, even terminally ill, people are being evicted from their homes and turned out onto the street because they can't afford the bedroom tax, feelings can run rather high.

Just remind us again who brought in the bedroom tax?

Oh yes, that's right it was Labour.

Labour introduced and kept "bedroom tax" on people who rented from the private sector during Blair's leadership, hitting exactly the same people as the claim to be concerned about now.

When Labour introduced it in 2008, it was called your 'Local Housing Allowance', only when the Tories came in did Labour start calling it the 'Bedroom Tax'.

Typical Labour hypocrisy.

Mr ddc"

LHA applies to tenants living in privately rented accommodation ie those who are living where they have chosen to live.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

Unlike the Bedroom Tax which applies to people in social rented housing, allocated to them.

They're then told to pay more or move but 1) they don't have any money and 2) there's nowhere to move to.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The challenge of the Labour party is not to get elected again. It's to make being left wing make sense again... and through that get elected again. If that's not possible... then I'd rather just vote for right wingers who actually believe in right wing ideas rather than a bunch of "left wingers" who are wearing right wing clothes just to get elected.

I don't buy the whole "we'll be right wing in a more left wing way". I tend to read that as "we'll be deliberately nasty to people, because that's what we think being right wing is about, but we'll just be less deliberately nasty than we imagine the evil right wingers would have been"

The biggest problem you, like a lot of left inclined, has is that you seem to genuinely believe that those to the right of you are somehow evil. This belief leaves you totally incapable of forming rational, reasonable arguments as to why people should not vote for them..

No the biggest problem is it's a piece of piss selling idiots right wing philosophy because right wing philosophy is entirely centred around individualism and all the great intrinsically linked natural sins of selfishness, greed, lust, sloth, anger and this great myth of work ethic.

Where as the very hard message of left wing philosophy involves giving up your hard earned money for the greater good of society, which is the only true instinct in any human.

We all crave being in a society, we just have a problem paying for it through any other means.

I mean people buy society all the time, tennis clubs, golf membership, gym clubs, cycling clubs, athletics clubs, social clubs.... Were in reality buying societal interaction.... No different than getting a membership on here!

The right wingers will have you believe that there's no penalty for neglecting the poor.

I say that's bollocks.... Take a look at the usa for evidence

I didn't vote for the labour Party at the last election.

How dare you accuse me of lack of compassion, putting my own selfish individual needs between my friends, family, work colleagues, and those I will never meet.

How dare you accuse me of not willingly contributing financially, and socially, to society.

How dare you put yourself as a better, caring human being than me simply because I didn't vote for the Labour party at the last election.

You dare because you have an intolerant, uninformed, bigoted sense of moral superiority that seeks to condemn a persons worth, not as a human individual, but as a political enemy.

And that is a philosophy that has, an continues to do, cause untold human misery

"
.

Before you get all uperty!!

It was Margret Thatcher who declared there's no such thing as society and that the pieces are greater than the whole!

Im not a fan of morals, they vary to much from person to person to get uperty about

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