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Diplomacy and Force

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

It came up during the fox hunting discussion yesterday, the implication that those who seek to solve problems through force, ie aggression, violence and war, are simple minded idiots. I also regularly read on here opinions like 'real men don't need to use their fists/I'm above fighting' and such like.

My question is, do you believe that force is a primitive and outdated way to fix problems, a leftover from our animal days that only continues to be used by the simple minded and stupid, and diplomacy and negotiation is always superior, or are there some people in the world who simply cannot be reasoned with, and violence is the only effective means of dealing with them?

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By *obbytupperMan
over a year ago

Menston near Ilkley

Rather similar to hammering in a screw.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

Teddy Roosevelt got it about right.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


"Rather similar to hammering in a screw. "

That's what you're meant to do.

Hammers are for putting screws in, screwdrivers are for taking screws out.

You never been to Glasgow?

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By *wiftieeMan
over a year ago

near Glasgow

Depends on the situation, but I believe there's still a place for 'gunboat diplomacy'. Simply because there's some people/situations who/which don't/won't enter into meaningful discussion and negotiation.

I don't mean to get into party politics, but if the Argies had invaded the Falklands during the PMship of any of Maggie's successors, we'd still be asking them nicely to leave. And currently, I don't think there's any way that civilised 'powers that be' would be able to discuss and negotiate with Islamic extremists.

Just my opinion.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"It came up during the fox hunting discussion yesterday, the implication that those who seek to solve problems through force, ie aggression, violence and war, are simple minded idiots. I also regularly read on here opinions like 'real men don't need to use their fists/I'm above fighting' and such like.

My question is, do you believe that force is a primitive and outdated way to fix problems, a leftover from our animal days that only continues to be used by the simple minded and stupid, and diplomacy and negotiation is always superior, or are there some people in the world who simply cannot be reasoned with, and violence is the only effective means of dealing with them?"

I think it's outdated and primitive.

If you punch someone, they'll just learn not to get caught next time.

If you teach them something new, they'll change their habits.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"My question is, do you believe that force is a primitive and outdated way to fix problems, a leftover from our animal days that only continues to be used by the simple minded and stupid, and diplomacy and negotiation is always superior, or are there some people in the world who simply cannot be reasoned with, and violence is the only effective means of dealing with them?"

Largely yes. I don't think violence / force should ever be the answer, but unfortunately, if dealing with those whose only language is force / violence, then that is the only option available.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Violence as a form of defence I can understand but beyond that it has no place and people that are violent or aggressive are people I avoid.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Speak softly and carry a big stick.... As the saying goes

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

King's Crustacean


"It came up during the fox hunting discussion yesterday, the implication that those who seek to solve problems through force, ie aggression, violence and war, are simple minded idiots. I also regularly read on here opinions like 'real men don't need to use their fists/I'm above fighting' and such like.

My question is, do you believe that force is a primitive and outdated way to fix problems, a leftover from our animal days that only continues to be used by the simple minded and stupid, and diplomacy and negotiation is always superior, or are there some people in the world who simply cannot be reasoned with, and violence is the only effective means of dealing with them?

I think it's outdated and primitive.

If you punch someone, they'll just learn not to get caught next time.

If you teach them something new, they'll change their habits."

But if you punch them hard enough they will learn not to mess with you again.

Unfortunately it's against the law these days.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Violence is often used as a vehicle to be taken seriously by those who lack confidence or esteem, or the intelligence to understand there are options that allow better results for all concerned.

That said, violence is sometimes important to succeed, massive respect for armed forces etc, who sign up for country, not another persons decisions a lot of the time.

Anyone disagreeing will get a severe ticking off, no violence

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By *risky_MareWoman
over a year ago

...Up on the Downs


"Speak softly and carry a big stick.... As the saying goes "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

weirdly it seems aggressiveness can only be seen as a physical attribute to many...yet we know there are many who use psychological aggressiveness to get what they want.

so it equates physical are low in IQ,and psychological are higher in IQ...

and for this and a few reasons thats why I think IQ as a measure of a person is a pile of pish.

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

King's Crustacean


"weirdly it seems aggressiveness can only be seen as a physical attribute to many...yet we know there are many who use psychological aggressiveness to get what they want.

so it equates physical are low in IQ,and psychological are higher in IQ...

and for this and a few reasons thats why I think IQ as a measure of a person is a pile of pish. "

Agreed !

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

To say violence will never be used is really setting yourself up for being the victim, not saying it shouldn't be avoided, just keep the option open.

Unfortunately there are people out there who understand little else or simply love it, these psychos really need locking up, once revealed.

A bit like war if it has to be done, make it short, hit them hard, make them regret ever starting it and make them not to want it again.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

we havnt evolved at all.

Violence as far as can be traced back has been used to control and assert a delusional imagined authority over others.

Violence is still the preferred method of governments but its not ok for the general public.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

But force comes in many different shapes yeah.

Violence is one form, the other is 'authority'.

Bending people to your will, when they are against the idea - will never go away.

That's why we have armed forces/police/prisons/traffic wardens /customs/doms lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"weirdly it seems aggressiveness can only be seen as a physical attribute to many...yet we know there are many who use psychological aggressiveness to get what they want.

so it equates physical are low in IQ,and psychological are higher in IQ...

and for this and a few reasons thats why I think IQ as a measure of a person is a pile of pish. "

Quite right, the organisers of the massacres in Nazi Germany some were highly intelligent, Reinhard Heydrich for one.

Himmler said that once the civilised mind thinks its time to use brutality then there can be no limit to its intensity, and much as its pains me to say it, there is a ring of truth to it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

When I worked in psychy wards(a good number of years), there were textbook responses that should be adhered to in learning how to control a challenging situation situation with reasonable force.

Sometimes you have to match the challenging situation by a level of assertiveness that is aggressive..otherwise you lose control of the situation. In most cases it will earn you respect and hopefully stop future reocurrences.

I call it personality matching.

People have to learn their behaviour has consequences, and if its stamped out quickly and effectively it should stop things escalating.Mollycuddling bad behaviour never helps anyone.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"But force comes in many different shapes yeah.

Violence is one form, the other is 'authority'.

Bending people to your will, when they are against the idea - will never go away.

That's why we have armed forces/police/prisons/traffic wardens /customs/doms lol"

sorry but violence is the form used. when an imagined authority is assumed and someone doesnt recognise that authority or feels that authority is being abused then violence is used to subjugate. Basically bullying.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"It came up during the fox hunting discussion yesterday, the implication that those who seek to solve problems through force, ie aggression, violence and war, are simple minded idiots. I also regularly read on here opinions like 'real men don't need to use their fists/I'm above fighting' and such like.

My question is, do you believe that force is a primitive and outdated way to fix problems, a leftover from our animal days that only continues to be used by the simple minded and stupid, and diplomacy and negotiation is always superior, or are there some people in the world who simply cannot be reasoned with, and violence is the only effective means of dealing with them?

I think it's outdated and primitive.

If you punch someone, they'll just learn not to get caught next time.

If you teach them something new, they'll change their habits.

But if you punch them hard enough they will learn not to mess with you again.

Unfortunately it's against the law these days. "

They'll just learn to mess with you better next time.

My Dad used to get the cane routinely at school. Getting the cane never taught him not to get the cane. It just taught him to do something that was more naughty so that the punishment was 'worth it'.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Depends how stupid your 'opponent' is. You can persuade stupid people you're right fairly easily, intelligent people will try and work out if you're right or not, stubborn people won't think at all.

But force should always be the last resort. It's basically saying you've given up making your point and can't argue it any more so have to force it.

Although sometimes forcing things also shows intolerance, and this can be necessary too. Depends on the situation and what result you want.

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By *ath_Neil_bifunCouple
over a year ago

near cardiff


"It came up during the fox hunting discussion yesterday, the implication that those who seek to solve problems through force, ie aggression, violence and war, are simple minded idiots. I also regularly read on here opinions like 'real men don't need to use their fists/I'm above fighting' and such like.

My question is, do you believe that force is a primitive and outdated way to fix problems, a leftover from our animal days that only continues to be used by the simple minded and stupid, and diplomacy and negotiation is always superior, or are there some people in the world who simply cannot be reasoned with, and violence is the only effective means of dealing with them?

I think it's outdated and primitive.

If you punch someone, they'll just learn not to get caught next time.

If you teach them something new, they'll change their habits.

But if you punch them hard enough they will learn not to mess with you again.

Unfortunately it's against the law these days.

They'll just learn to mess with you better next time.

My Dad used to get the cane routinely at school. Getting the cane never taught him not to get the cane. It just taught him to do something that was more naughty so that the punishment was 'worth it'."

I got bullied in school by two boys for three years.one day I punched one of them so hard in the face that I broke his nose.

I never got bullied again.

Violence can work in your favour.

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By *hortieWoman
over a year ago

Northampton


"

My question is, do you believe that force is a primitive and outdated way to fix problems, a leftover from our animal days that only continues to be used by the simple minded and stupid, and diplomacy and negotiation is always superior, or are there some people in the world who simply cannot be reasoned with, and violence is the only effective means of dealing with them?"

No. Now, wheres my hammer....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

To paraphrase -Malcolm X- I am nonviolent with people who are nonviolent with me.

"Nonviolence is fine as long as it works"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Chris Kyle had a good saying.

"my mother was wrong. Violence always works in conflict".

Soldier to soldier no problems there.

Do not like violence on our streets or near our youth of today.

Rip Chris reorg bro

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By *otone27Couple
over a year ago

chester

How would you reason with IS?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I would cut off all communication they have so they loose control of the troops. Destroy their supply routes. Isolate them in locations. Prevent food and water in until they are dehidrated and then sent in food and water for hostiges . The water will be laced with lsd guarantee the isis troops will keep the only water for them selfs. Give them a couple of hours and walk in and capture them without a shot being fired.

Just 1 idea what would you do.

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By *nfinity1Man
over a year ago

Near Bournemouth

Personally I think that anyone that says people that use violence are unintelligent are unintelligent themselves.

I had a very chequered past with an IQ of 137, so go figure!!!

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By *empting Devil.Woman
over a year ago

Sheffield


"It came up during the fox hunting discussion yesterday, the implication that those who seek to solve problems through force, ie aggression, violence and war, are simple minded idiots. I also regularly read on here opinions like 'real men don't need to use their fists/I'm above fighting' and such like.

My question is, do you believe that force is a primitive and outdated way to fix problems, a leftover from our animal days that only continues to be used by the simple minded and stupid, and diplomacy and negotiation is always superior, or are there some people in the world who simply cannot be reasoned with, and violence is the only effective means of dealing with them?

I think it's outdated and primitive.

If you punch someone, they'll just learn not to get caught next time.

If you teach them something new, they'll change their habits.

But if you punch them hard enough they will learn not to mess with you again.

Unfortunately it's against the law these days. "

No they just learn to punch you first or to bring their mates to hold you down.

Violence begets violence. An eye for an eye will leave the whole world blind.

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By *ultry SuccubusTV/TS
over a year ago

London&Dublin

I think what's really primitive and barbaric is cruel combative sports - boxing, UFC, MMA...hurting others till they bleed while others cheers around you.

How the spectators urge the combatants to fight each other and beat each other and call it entertainment and sports.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Sometimes diplomacy only gets you so far before you end up having to take action.

Like the poster above who was bullied for 3yrs or when dealing with the likes of ISIS where there can be no diplomacy. Sometimes violence is the only 'language' some adversaries understand. In those instances you often have to use exceptional violence to end a conflict.

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