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Gender pay gap

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

The government is to press ahead with plans to force large firms to disclose data on the gender pay gap among staff.

A consultation on the measure - introduced in the final months of the coalition - is to begin on Tuesday.

David Cameron will say the move will "pressure" firms into boosting women's wages, as he vows to eliminate the gender pay gap "within a generation".

It will require firms with more than 250 employees to publish the average pay of male and female employees - with the measures to be introduced in 12 months.

In the company I work for female Directors and managers out-number males. I do think the gender pay gap out there is closing. I'll be interested to see figures when they are published.

Generally, time out for children was where women often lost ground to their male counterparts career wise. I feel like that has changed during my working life so far.

Is the situation improving out there or is there still a way to go?

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By *empting Devil.Woman
over a year ago

Sheffield

For every pound a man earns a woman in an equal post receives only 80p.

In the 21st century in an alleged legally equal and fair society this is not acceptable.

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By *bi HaiveMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Cheeseville, Somerset

I'm confused by the stats.

It's averages.

Are they saying women doing identical roles to men are being paid less?

Because every job I've ever had has been paid based on role and sometimes job grade. So it hasn't mattered whether anyone has boobs or moobs!

A

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

I appreciate some kind of comparison is needed but how, for example, do you compare bin lorry rubbish collector and a school dinner lady?

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By *inaTitzTV/TS
over a year ago

Titz Towers, North Notts

There shouldn't be any inequality based on gender.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The government is to press ahead with plans to force large firms to disclose data on the gender pay gap among staff.

A consultation on the measure - introduced in the final months of the coalition - is to begin on Tuesday.

David Cameron will say the move will "pressure" firms into boosting women's wages, as he vows to eliminate the gender pay gap "within a generation".

It will require firms with more than 250 employees to publish the average pay of male and female employees - with the measures to be introduced in 12 months.

In the company I work for female Directors and managers out-number males. I do think the gender pay gap out there is closing. I'll be interested to see figures when they are published.

Generally, time out for children was where women often lost ground to their male counterparts career wise. I feel like that has changed during my working life so far.

Is the situation improving out there or is there still a way to go? "

What line of work are you in if you don't mind me asking?

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By *arry247Couple
over a year ago

Wakefield

Men and women are not equal and never will be.

If you truly believe in equality there would be no male football teams and no female football teams but mixed gender football teams, the same for all sports.

In a similar manner women should not be pandered to when they take time off to have a baby, that is a life choice the same as taking time off for a holiday.

Million of women make the choice to not have children so why should those who choose to have children get preferential treatment.

When will politicians learn that in the real world no one is equal, some are stronger than others, some have a greater intellect than others and some have more drive than others.

Wages should be paid on the ability to do the job required, success or progress should go to the most capable and not depend on what sex one is.

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By *inaTitzTV/TS
over a year ago

Titz Towers, North Notts


"Men and women are not equal and never will be.

If you truly believe in equality there would be no male football teams and no female football teams but mixed gender football teams, the same for all sports.

In a similar manner women should not be pandered to when they take time off to have a baby, that is a life choice the same as taking time off for a holiday.

Million of women make the choice to not have children so why should those who choose to have children get preferential treatment.

"

What's life like in the 1970s? Is Wheeltappers and Shunters on telly tonight?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Men and women are not equal and never will be.

If you truly believe in equality there would be no male football teams and no female football teams but mixed gender football teams, the same for all sports.

In a similar manner women should not be pandered to when they take time off to have a baby, that is a life choice the same as taking time off for a holiday.

Million of women make the choice to not have children so why should those who choose to have children get preferential treatment.

What's life like in the 1970s? Is Wheeltappers and Shunters on telly tonight?"

Bring back the rule of thumb!!!

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By *ezebelWoman
over a year ago

North of The Wall - youll need your vest


"

What's life like in the 1970s? Is Wheeltappers and Shunters on telly tonight?"

Members of the Committee have passed a resolution. Apparently.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Men and women are not equal and never will be.

If you truly believe in equality there would be no male football teams and no female football teams but mixed gender football teams, the same for all sports.

In a similar manner women should not be pandered to when they take time off to have a baby, that is a life choice the same as taking time off for a holiday.

Million of women make the choice to not have children so why should those who choose to have children get preferential treatment.

When will politicians learn that in the real world no one is equal, some are stronger than others, some have a greater intellect than others and some have more drive than others.

Wages should be paid on the ability to do the job required, success or progress should go to the most capable and not depend on what sex one is.

"

'pandered to'...'preferential treatment'...how so?.....i have no children, not through choice, but many family and friends have and i've never noticed them being 'pandered ' to! the opposite is true in my experience in a huge amount of workplaces.

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By *rank EinsteinMan
over a year ago

Burton upon stather


"For every pound a man earns a woman in an equal post receives only 80p.

In the 21st century in an alleged legally equal and fair society this is not acceptable."

Where did you get these figures?

I've never known of a woman being paid less than a man for the same job.

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

According to the ONS:

* In April 2014 median gross weekly earnings for full-time employees were £518, up 0.1% from £517 in 2013. This is the smallest annual growth since 1997, the first year for which ASHE data are available. Growth has been slower since the economic downturn, with the annual increase averaging around 1.4% per year between 2009 and 2014.

* Adjusted for inflation, weekly earnings decreased by 1.6% compared to 2013. The largest decrease was between 2010 and 2011, but inflation-adjusted earnings have continued to decrease every year since 2008, to levels last seen in the early 2000s.

* For the year ending 5 April 2014 median gross annual earnings for full-time employees (who had been in the same job for at least 12 months) were £27,200, an increase of 0.7% from the previous year.

* The gender pay gap has narrowed, to 9.4% compared with 10.0% in 2013. This is the lowest since records began in 1997, and despite a relatively large increase between 2012 and 2013, there is an overall downward trend, from 17.4% in 1997.

* In April 2014 the bottom 10% of full-time employees earned less than £288 per week. At the other end of the distribution, the top 10% of full-time employees earned more than £1,024. Since 1997, earnings at the 90th percentile have remained consistently at around 3.5 times earnings at the 10th percentile.

* Median gross weekly earnings for full-time employees increased by 1.0% in the public sector, and by 0.7% in the private sector. The gap has closed slightly over the long term, but private sector earnings have remained consistently at around 85% of public sector earnings since 2009.

Hope that's cleared things up...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"For every pound a man earns a woman in an equal post receives only 80p.

In the 21st century in an alleged legally equal and fair society this is not acceptable.

Where did you get these figures?

I've never known of a woman being paid less than a man for the same job. "

they are all over the news today, from stats gathered by a perfectly reputable body..

and it would be unlikely you'd be privy to many peoples scale of pay surely? how would you know what other people are being paid?

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By *bi HaiveMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Cheeseville, Somerset


"According to the ONS:

* In April 2014 median gross weekly earnings for full-time employees were £518, up 0.1% from £517 in 2013. This is the smallest annual growth since 1997, the first year for which ASHE data are available. Growth has been slower since the economic downturn, with the annual increase averaging around 1.4% per year between 2009 and 2014.

* Adjusted for inflation, weekly earnings decreased by 1.6% compared to 2013. The largest decrease was between 2010 and 2011, but inflation-adjusted earnings have continued to decrease every year since 2008, to levels last seen in the early 2000s.

* For the year ending 5 April 2014 median gross annual earnings for full-time employees (who had been in the same job for at least 12 months) were £27,200, an increase of 0.7% from the previous year.

* The gender pay gap has narrowed, to 9.4% compared with 10.0% in 2013. This is the lowest since records began in 1997, and despite a relatively large increase between 2012 and 2013, there is an overall downward trend, from 17.4% in 1997.

* In April 2014 the bottom 10% of full-time employees earned less than £288 per week. At the other end of the distribution, the top 10% of full-time employees earned more than £1,024. Since 1997, earnings at the 90th percentile have remained consistently at around 3.5 times earnings at the 10th percentile.

* Median gross weekly earnings for full-time employees increased by 1.0% in the public sector, and by 0.7% in the private sector. The gap has closed slightly over the long term, but private sector earnings have remained consistently at around 85% of public sector earnings since 2009.

Hope that's cleared things up..."

I've seen the stats. I still don't get how 'averages' show anything.

Unless they're comparing an equal number of men and women in identical roles getting paid different amounts all they're showing is that more men earn more money, thus producing these figures.

If the argument is that more men are being employed in higher paying positions then to me that's a different argument to saying men get paid more than women.

It's not right.

But it's a different argument completely.

A

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By *bi HaiveMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Cheeseville, Somerset


"For every pound a man earns a woman in an equal post receives only 80p.

In the 21st century in an alleged legally equal and fair society this is not acceptable.

Where did you get these figures?

I've never known of a woman being paid less than a man for the same job.

they are all over the news today, from stats gathered by a perfectly reputable body..

and it would be unlikely you'd be privy to many peoples scale of pay surely? how would you know what other people are being paid?"

As I said earlier - every job I've ever had has been paid by role and/or grade - not gender.

So far as I know it's illegal to employ someone and pay them differently for the same job based on gender.

A

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By *rank EinsteinMan
over a year ago

Burton upon stather


"For every pound a man earns a woman in an equal post receives only 80p.

In the 21st century in an alleged legally equal and fair society this is not acceptable.

Where did you get these figures?

I've never known of a woman being paid less than a man for the same job.

they are all over the news today, from stats gathered by a perfectly reputable body..

and it would be unlikely you'd be privy to many peoples scale of pay surely? how would you know what other people are being paid?"

Because I've worked with plenty of people who would say if they were being paid less.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I appreciate some kind of comparison is needed but how, for example, do you compare bin lorry rubbish collector and a school dinner lady?"

It's called Single Status, every local authority has had to go through the process in the last 10 years. There's a set of criteria drawn up about responsibilities, skills required, conditions, they score each role against them and hey presto, they have their pay grade.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"For every pound a man earns a woman in an equal post receives only 80p.

In the 21st century in an alleged legally equal and fair society this is not acceptable."

Actually those figures do NOT equate to equal posts. The equal pay legislation got rid of that years ago.....and many cases have since gone through the courts (often involving local authorities to sort out "grading of jobs" etc).

The £1/80p figure comes from "average" earnings between men and women including part time work ...done more by women. Figures on BBC news website show the difference is around 9% if only looking at full time jobs.

It still remains a problem but figures need to compare like for like....which they don't.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I work in the public sector, so I know exactly how much every gets paid and everyone in the same role gets paid the same.

In some other sectors, it's a lot more murky. When you factor in things like bonuses etc. especially. There are plenty of people I know who don't know what others doing the same job as them earn.

Publishing the data feels like a step, but I'd want to know more about what the nature of it is - if it's average, average of what? What kind of average? The devil is in the detail.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It happens, and it happens all over the world. Doesn't always happen with every company. My sister was a director for a large US company, when she jacked it in her husband applied for and got her job, He was paid more for the same position. There are lots of variables which mean different people doing the same job get paid at different rates, regardless of gender.

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

There are 2 figures...

1/ average hourly wage

2/ average yearly earnings

Both are different, and the hourly rate shows a greater disparity...

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/295833/Analysis_of_the_Gender_Pay_Gap.pdf

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Read Kate Andrews' article in the Spectator online.

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

The point of the problem is this:

As with other rights/equality issues (eg gay rights here or civil rights in the US) once 'equality' has been achieved in law the impetus goes out of the movement.

Despite legislation, clearly, the gender pay gap remains, gay people are discriminated against and as for the fate of being black in America... well...

Equality before law is not enough

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By *eavenNhellCouple
over a year ago

carrbrook stalybridge

Can nobody else see what will happen

No wage rises for women just pay cuts for men to bring things into line as they did with car insurance

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury


"Can nobody else see what will happen

No wage rises for women just pay cuts for men to bring things into line as they did with car insurance "

Bottom line (as I keep reminding my daughter)

LIFE ISN'T FAIR

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury


"Can nobody else see what will happen

No wage rises for women just pay cuts for men to bring things into line as they did with car insurance

Bottom line (as I keep reminding my daughter)

LIFE ISN'T FAIR"

But then, as white middle-class male with UK citizenship I can afford to be relaxed...

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By *rank EinsteinMan
over a year ago

Burton upon stather

Also remove some men get paid more than others for the same job at the same company, I worked with two forklift truck drivers who bothered applied for the same role at a company.

One took the job when he was offered it, the other said he needed to discuss it with his wife before accepting.

They called him two more times increasing his offered wage each time but he really did need to discuss it with his wife.

Quite a few job's have negotiable salary so how will that work when comparing averages?

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"

In a similar manner women should not be pandered to when they take time off to have a baby, that is a life choice the same as taking time off for a holiday.

Million of women make the choice to not have children so why should those who choose to have children get preferential treatment.

"

Would you want them back at work within 24 hrs of giving birth or do they get slightly longer if they've had a Caesarian ?

Maternity pay is never equivalent to normal salary, often ending up with little or no pay by the end of extended time off. No different to sabbaticals that either sex can take, but not quite as relaxing.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire


"Men and women are not equal and never will be.

If you truly believe in equality there would be no male football teams and no female football teams but mixed gender football teams, the same for all sports.

In a similar manner women should not be pandered to when they take time off to have a baby, that is a life choice the same as taking time off for a holiday.

Million of women make the choice to not have children so why should those who choose to have children get preferential treatment.

When will politicians learn that in the real world no one is equal, some are stronger than others, some have a greater intellect than others and some have more drive than others.

Wages should be paid on the ability to do the job required, success or progress should go to the most capable and not depend on what sex one is.

"

the thread is about equality..

when 2 people do the same role they should get the same reward financially..

fuck all to do with having children which funnily enough we sort of need people to keep on doing..

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By *rc83Man
over a year ago

warrington

This may take it slightly off topic hear abit but I'll go ahead anyways.

Wimbledon is a prime example of equality. Women receive equal pay. Correct but they have to play less tennis to receive equal pay. So technically they are in more but demanded the equal pay.

In my eyes you can have the equal pay as long as you are willing to do an equal amount of work for such pay

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


"I appreciate some kind of comparison is needed but how, for example, do you compare bin lorry rubbish collector and a school dinner lady?

It's called Single Status, every local authority has had to go through the process in the last 10 years. There's a set of criteria drawn up about responsibilities, skills required, conditions, they score each role against them and hey presto, they have their pay grade.

"

I know that's how it's supposed to work, I just don't comprehend how it works in practice.

Public bodies, local govt etc have published salary scales people can refer to. Private industry doesn't work that way.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I appreciate some kind of comparison is needed but how, for example, do you compare bin lorry rubbish collector and a school dinner lady?

It's called Single Status, every local authority has had to go through the process in the last 10 years. There's a set of criteria drawn up about responsibilities, skills required, conditions, they score each role against them and hey presto, they have their pay grade.

I know that's how it's supposed to work, I just don't comprehend how it works in practice.

Public bodies, local govt etc have published salary scales people can refer to. Private industry doesn't work that way.

"

What's to comprehend? A judgement is taken on the value of different skills/requirements/competencies and that drives the salary scale it's awarded.

I know private industry doesn't that way, but they make their own set of judgments about the worth of different roles based on the market.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


"I appreciate some kind of comparison is needed but how, for example, do you compare bin lorry rubbish collector and a school dinner lady?

It's called Single Status, every local authority has had to go through the process in the last 10 years. There's a set of criteria drawn up about responsibilities, skills required, conditions, they score each role against them and hey presto, they have their pay grade.

I know that's how it's supposed to work, I just don't comprehend how it works in practice.

Public bodies, local govt etc have published salary scales people can refer to. Private industry doesn't work that way.

What's to comprehend? A judgement is taken on the value of different skills/requirements/competencies and that drives the salary scale it's awarded.

I know private industry doesn't that way, but they make their own set of judgments about the worth of different roles based on the market."

That's just it. It's a 'judgement'. There seems little scientific about it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I appreciate some kind of comparison is needed but how, for example, do you compare bin lorry rubbish collector and a school dinner lady?

It's called Single Status, every local authority has had to go through the process in the last 10 years. There's a set of criteria drawn up about responsibilities, skills required, conditions, they score each role against them and hey presto, they have their pay grade.

I know that's how it's supposed to work, I just don't comprehend how it works in practice.

Public bodies, local govt etc have published salary scales people can refer to. Private industry doesn't work that way.

What's to comprehend? A judgement is taken on the value of different skills/requirements/competencies and that drives the salary scale it's awarded.

I know private industry doesn't that way, but they make their own set of judgments about the worth of different roles based on the market.

That's just it. It's a 'judgement'. There seems little scientific about it."

It's about as scientific as it can be, but of course there's an element of subjectivity about it. But there is no scientific, objective way of determining what one job should be paid vs another, all methods will involve value judgements.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I appreciate some kind of comparison is needed but how, for example, do you compare bin lorry rubbish collector and a school dinner lady?

It's called Single Status, every local authority has had to go through the process in the last 10 years. There's a set of criteria drawn up about responsibilities, skills required, conditions, they score each role against them and hey presto, they have their pay grade.

I know that's how it's supposed to work, I just don't comprehend how it works in practice.

Public bodies, local govt etc have published salary scales people can refer to. Private industry doesn't work that way.

"

In professional organisations it does. Salary surveys are conducted all the time in industry and competitor reviews and award pay rises accordingly. If they don't, the risk losing staff to competitors.

This is normally linked to both role and measured performance against annual objectives.

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By *histler21Man
over a year ago

Ipswich

I have worked for one private sector company and two public sector ones. The pay has been identical for each sex since I started working in 1980. This is because there has been a published pay spine which everyone is on.

The ONLY difference being the private sector employer had a bonus scheme - which was based on personal performance, group and company performance.

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