FabSwingers.com forum: Black guys referred to as coloured guys

By *rferrerorrocher OP Man
over a year ago

Brixton

Why do some people still refer to black people as coloured people? Where does this delusional thinking stem from that make people think this is acceptable? Equally when people use terms like whites or pale people, are we not allowed to just say white people or black people. Let me add I'm not trying to start an ethnic group war. I'm just curious....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 13/07/15 14:48:36]

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By *rank EinsteinMan
over a year ago

Burton upon stather

Unfortunately some people may still be unsure of the correct terms.

I'll be honest, the town I grew up in is pretty far behind, I didn't see my first black person till I was 17, had never spoken to a black person till age 23.

Shocking I know, not because I've ever avoided any ethnicity but there just weren't many people of a different ethnic background other than Asian Pakistani, Indian etc.

Likewise with gay people, there's only one small gay bar in the town and it's commonplace to joke about it being seedy.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Why do black people still call themselves black or black***** in this day and age? Aren't people people?

Especially when, at best, they're half white? Is that not disrespectful to the white parent, frequently the mother.

And how many, many generations must pass before African/American is no longer relevant.

yrs sincerely

Neanderthal Joe

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Why do some people still refer to black people as coloured people? Where does this delusional thinking stem from that make people think this is acceptable? Equally when people use terms like whites or pale people, are we not allowed to just say white people or black people. Let me add I'm not trying to start an ethnic group war. I'm just curious...."

I use the term Persons of Colour because it's what is used as an academic standard term (and doesn't have the same 'otherness' issues as the phrase 'non-caucasian').

If I am talking specifically about people who are of black descent, then I would use the term black.

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By *ack LondonMan
over a year ago

London

It is a descriptive thing. If a crime were committed and there were witnesses. Anyway I see the person first. There are lovely everybodies.

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By *rank EinsteinMan
over a year ago

Burton upon stather

Why do black people still call themselves black or black***** in this day and age? Aren't people people?

Especially when, at best, they're half white? Is that not disrespectful to the white parent, frequently the mother.

And how many, many generations must pass before African/American is no longer relevant.

yrs sincerely

Neanderthal Joe

Because they're allowed to be proud of their heritage, as are you regardless of people saying you can be proud to be black but not white.

I'm a straight, white, English man and I'm proud of it, anybody that calls me racist or sexist or homophobic because of that is wrong

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Growing up I was told saying a "black person" was offensive and to use "coloured person" instead. I had always thought that was odd as I'd never seen a person of 'colour' (green, blue etc)

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By *lackbirdtimestwoWoman
over a year ago

birmingham

Black is a political term and whilst we still live in a world, in a country where there is inequalities we have to define ourselves as Black.

Usually the older generation uses coloured, it's not meant in an offensive way, it's just ignorance, a polite correction should suffice. I'm of mixed heritage, politically I'm Black, I'm never ever ever half caste!!!!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don't think any malice can be in the term 'coloured', though I think it's more Americans that use that term than Brits.

Once was watching Question Time (yes exciting times eh) with a black friend of mine and one of the audience was a black woman who chided someone for using the term 'black', she said to use 'Afro-Carribean' instead. My mate looked at me and 'what the hell is wrong with being black?'

I read a Spike Milligan book recently, a part of his autobiography, and he referred to a certain racial group in India as 'wogs'. In those days these terms were not derogatory, they merely identified a particular caste or ethnic group. Spike was born in India, and loved the country and its people very much, but someone reading that book today might consider him racist, and they'd be very wrong.

An older chap that used to use our local pub often used the term that begins with 'n' to describe black people (never in a nasty way), and I once saw him fighting for the honour of a black guy that used to come in our pub when some (the real type of) racists were giving him abuse.

It's such a touchy subject and people over-react to it in an effort to prove that they aren't racist. It becomes so bad that people have to choose what words they say not to be labelled as racist and the REAL racism which is terrible gets devalued in many ways.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Why do black people still call themselves black or black***** in this day and age? Aren't people people?

Especially when, at best, they're half white? Is that not disrespectful to the white parent, frequently the mother.

And how many, many generations must pass before African/American is no longer relevant.

yrs sincerely

Neanderthal Joe

Because they're allowed to be proud of their heritage, as are you regardless of people saying you can be proud to be black but not white.

I'm a straight, white, English man and I'm proud of it, anybody that calls me racist or sexist or homophobic because of that is wrong "

I think the point he's making is if they have one white parent and one black patent how can they still class themselves as black when they equally white

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Coloured guys are black?

I thought the term was saved for a Scott who went out in daylight south of Carlisle

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I must admit that in the past I have never been quite sure what is PC and what isn't. I have never use the term 'coloured' in an offensive manner.

Where I am from is not that diverse. It is not an excuse but I suspect has something to do with it

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By *iSTARessWoman
over a year ago

London

My parents still used coloured and half-caste. Drives me up the bloody wall!

Their excuse is they grew up in different times which is frankly, bollocks

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We are all pink in the middle

That's all I have to say

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I am afraid that I can't keep up with the currently acceptable terms. It is terribly confusing and difficult for me. I avoid using racially descriptive terms at all just to prevent any potential offence which can't be good either and can be difficult.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"My parents still used coloured and half-caste. Drives me up the bloody wall!

Their excuse is they grew up in different times which is frankly, bollocks

Exactly.

We can all be better - but only if we want to be.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

A further example to show contrary attitudes :

Tiger Woods ( half Singaporean i believe) has always been described as "the first black golfer this", the first black golfer that" etc.

Yet, at an awards ceremony when his recently departed caddy, somewhat pissed, on winning his award stated "i'd like to shove this up his black arse" there was outrage, offence and claims of racism.

Either black is descriptive or it isn't.

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By *lackbirdtimestwoWoman
over a year ago

birmingham

I don't think any malice can be in the term 'coloured', though I think it's more Americans that use that term than Brits.

It's not a touchy subject at all,, never be afraid to ask, I agree with you about real racism being devalued by people who believe themselves to be politically correct, like the sexual preference conversations that often happen in the forum, people get hung up on the colour which has little to do with real racism

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By *lackbirdtimestwoWoman
over a year ago

birmingham

A further example to show contrary attitudes :

Tiger Woods ( half Singaporean i believe) has always been described as "the first black golfer this", the first black golfer that" etc.

Yep,,, doesn't make him racist.

Yet, at an awards ceremony when his recently departed caddy, somewhat pissed, on winning his award stated "i'd like to shove this up his black arse" there was outrage, offence and claims of racism.

Either black is descriptive or it isn't. "

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By *L RogueMan
over a year ago

London

"We are all pink in the middle

That's all I have to say

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"We are all pink in the middle

That's all I have to say

But saying that 'we are all the same' suggests that we all have the same life experiences and opportunities in life.

The fact is that we don't, and erasing peoples experience by trying to pretend that we are all the same culturally is damaging to the less-privileged group.

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By *L RogueMan
over a year ago

London

"My parents still used coloured and half-caste. Drives me up the bloody wall!

Their excuse is they grew up in different times which is frankly, bollocks

There was a time where such terms were common: a LONG time ago.

For exceptionally old people, I just cringe. Anyone else, it is a weak excuse.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think it's comes from fear of the 'political correctness' police. If it was simple case of black is black and white is white and noone ever took offence then the world would be a better place,

I grew up in the age when mixed race was commonly called 'half cast'. Sometimes people's vocabulary doesn't move with the times, and so many racial hate crimes Leading to near riots and vigilante upheavals, sometimes we choose 'the safe option' and refer to any none Caucasian as colored, this can generically include oriental and Indian heritages .

Coloured is just a 'catch all term', Halle Berry used the term 'woman of colour' and yet she was the first black woman to win an oscar.

So what can we do to be politically correct? Unfortunately we can either err on the side of safety or risk a 50/50 chance of insulting the person we are trying to describe.

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By *lackbirdtimestwoWoman
over a year ago

birmingham

Why do black people still call themselves black or black***** in this day and age? Aren't people people?

Especially when, at best, they're half white? Is that not disrespectful to the white parent, frequently the mother.

And how many, many generations must pass before African/American is no longer relevant.

yrs sincerely

Neanderthal Joe

Because they're allowed to be proud of their heritage, as are you regardless of people saying you can be proud to be black but not white.

I'm a straight, white, English man and I'm proud of it, anybody that calls me racist or sexist or homophobic because of that is wrong

I think the point he's making is if they have one white parent and one black patent how can they still class themselves as black when they equally white

The confusion comes when your talking about skin colour,, being mixed race, equates to being Black politically. Even the term mixed race gives no credence to having a white parent,,,

I have a white parent but because if my skin colour I might experience less opportunities to succeed. This is why politically I'm Black,, this isn't me saying this it's what BMI means

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You may not thank me for this, unless you're a SuBo fan, but have a listen :

https://www.google.co.uk/?gfe_rd=cr&ei=psajVf-iJ5D98we217_QAQ#q=yoko+ono+we%27re+all+water

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By *lackbirdtimestwoWoman
over a year ago

birmingham

"We are all pink in the middle

That's all I have to say

But saying that 'we are all the same' suggests that we all have the same life experiences and opportunities in life.

The fact is that we don't, and erasing peoples experience by trying to pretend that we are all the same culturally is damaging to the less-privileged group."

Well said and perfectly correct,,

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I recall a few years back calling a black guy a 'coloured guy' - not because I was trying to be racist, in fact the opposite. I was trying to use the correct non-offensive terminology.

It was only the barrage of abuse that I got that made me realise my own ignorance as to what was and wasn't acceptable.

So I don't think necessarily there's always malice involved.

I'm more concerned that it's ok if a black person uses the 'N'-word but not a white person. The usual PC bullshit is that this shows black people 'owning the word' in an 'ironic way'. Bollox! It's either racist or it isn't!

A bit like saying "I can't be racist as I'm black" (as if only white people can be racist).

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By *ethepeopleMan
over a year ago

Near you

I'm Just putting it out there from MY point of view not bothered about being called black or coloured!!!! My kids are erm mixed race.... I call them half caste and that is it .

People can say what they want I can't stop that and I'll say what I want !!!

I have let's say an equal amount of mates of both sides of the fence so no CHIPS on my shoulders

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By *L RogueMan
over a year ago

London

"We are all pink in the middle

That's all I have to say

But saying that 'we are all the same' suggests that we all have the same life experiences and opportunities in life.

The fact is that we don't, and erasing peoples experience by trying to pretend that we are all the same culturally is damaging to the less-privileged group."

I think they were just implying that we all have body parts in common: brain, heart and stomach for example. Everything else is the madness we created ourselves or imposed on us by society.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I use the term Persons of Colour because it's what is used as an academic standard term (and doesn't have the same 'otherness' issues as the phrase 'non-caucasian').

If I am talking specifically about people who are of black descent, then I would use the term black."

I genuinely need a list of specific acceptable terms as I am aware that my lack of knowledge might cause offence. I have, for example, seen differing views on the use of the term "oriental." (Please, no offence intended!)

On a personal note, could you include a term for a British person with native American indian blood? (Apart from sexy).

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By *erbyDalesCplCouple
over a year ago

Derbyshire

"Why do some people still refer to black people as coloured people? Where does this delusional thinking stem from that make people think this is acceptable?"

I think it's a generational thing. I was brought up in the generation where 'coloured' was the correct term, as opposed to various Jim Davidson-style/ Love thy Neighbour-style epithets.

Then we moved on to black, but now, being more multi-cultural, the extremes of black and white themselves exclude many people, hence we seem to be moving towards the American style 'people of colour'.

Some people will miss the distinction of the word 'of' (like Benedict Cumberbatch did) but still be horrified at the thought of offending anyone. Others will look beyond the words to see the message/intent beneath.

Personally, I do my best, but I know with my mouth, I will inevitably put my foot in it somewhen, and when I do, I hope I will be judged on my feelings, not just on the words that I used.

(If that makes sense)

Even Afro-Caribbean must lose it's relevance after a number of generations? No-one calls me a Celtish-Anglo-Saxon anymore.

(Though some people have been known to call me a bit of a Celt. At least I think that's what they said

)

Mr ddc

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It may just be in the movies/TV, but why do our friends over the pond use the term "African-American" ?

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By *lackbirdtimestwoWoman
over a year ago

birmingham

"I'm Just putting it out there from MY point of view not bothered about being called black or coloured!!!! My kids are erm mixed race.... I call them half caste and that is it .

People can say what they want I can't stop that and I'll say what I want !!!

I have let's say an equal amount of mates of both sides of the fence so no CHIPS on my shoulders

I think if you understood the term half castes you might realise how the term devalues who your children are, the caste system no longer exists in modern society (thank heavens) but to be half of a caste is to say your worth nothing, you're a no one,, a nothing!!!

Not a nice way to describe anyone

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By *rinking-in-laCouple
over a year ago

Bristol

I use the term Persons of Colour because it's what is used as an academic standard term (and doesn't have the same 'otherness' issues as the phrase 'non-caucasian').

If I am talking specifically about people who are of black descent, then I would use the term black."

How can black be a colour? White is more of a colour than black if we are getting literal.

I would just tend to call them by their name.

Why, unless we are describing their appearance do we describe people's skin colour at all? If you were talking about anything other than a physical description what has the colour of their skin got to do with it.

Also saying all black people share a common ethnic descent is a pretty blunt instrument. There are a vast array of ethnicities amongst people with dark skin as there is amongst people with yellow, white, blue and red skin. It is a very inaccurate descriptor borne of a lack of thought given to what actually makes a person. The frequency at which light reflects off of someone's skin is by no means the most telling measure of a person's background.

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By *lackbirdtimestwoWoman
over a year ago

birmingham

"It may just be in the movies/TV, but why do our friends over the pond use the term "African-American" ?"

Because they tend to come from African descent,, some Black people in America can trace their family back to slavery, majority of slaves were African.

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

Coloured is originally a South African term relating to people of mixed white and Black heritage. I think the majority of people who use it don't understand where it came from or that they are saying the wrong thing.

I would usually say Black although it seems as though "person of colour" is becoming more wide spread, however i think it depends on the context. For example if you might talk about the lack of people of colour in the media, but if you describing your mate in a crowd you might say hes the black guy.

Afro-caribbean is wrong, because they may have no caribbean heritage, also terms like african american i think can be problematic. I have a friend who is a white south african, if she moved to America would she be African American?

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By *rinking-in-laCouple
over a year ago

Bristol

"I'm Just putting it out there from MY point of view not bothered about being called black or coloured!!!! My kids are erm mixed race.... I call them half caste and that is it .

People can say what they want I can't stop that and I'll say what I want !!!

I have let's say an equal amount of mates of both sides of the fence so no CHIPS on my shoulders

Not a nice way to describe anyone "

To be fair a word means what the utterer means it to mean.

A word is simply a disturbance in air pressure which is measured by our ear and as such confers no inherent value. If a person is happy using a word to describe them or theirs then who are you/we to tell them that it does not mean what they mean by it?

The fact that others have used it to mean something else is not relevant and it is a conceit for anyone to say that they should or should not refer to themselves in a particular way.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Also I lived through the 'political correctness gone mad' era where baa baa black sheep nursery rhymes were Banned or changed to baa baa spotty sheep, and black boards are now called chalk boards, much of this generation have been bought up believing the word 'black' is insulting, America Has the worst political correctness police around, they have to use the term African American instead of black, Jeff Dunham made a very good point of political correctness gone mad, using the same school of thought do you have to describe the family pet as an 'African American labrador'?

The polical correctness minefield can be difficult to navigate sometimes, just take our stumblings at face value and See the persons Good hearted nature at trying to be diplomatic in the face of years of confusion and a desire to be friendly.

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By *rferrerorrocher OP Man
over a year ago

Brixton

So black people at best are half white, that's the stupidest thing I've ever read. I wasn't trying to start a argument with my opening statement. I was hoping for constructive feedback.

Yes people are people and we all come in slightly different colours, which is a beautiful thing but referring to one group of people as coloured can be seen as offensive.

I'm not going to give you a history lesson on here about African culture and its influence on the world or society as we know it today.

I will say could you kindly keep your negativity away from this post.

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By *angerousEyesMan
over a year ago

weston

"We are all pink in the middle

That's all I have to say

But saying that 'we are all the same' suggests that we all have the same life experiences and opportunities in life.

The fact is that we don't, and erasing peoples experience by trying to pretend that we are all the same culturally is damaging to the less-privileged group."

And this is the problem, I suspect in its simplest form they meant along the lines of "cut me do I not bleed" as in we are all fundamentally the same, people, one race, human.

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

I use the term Persons of Colour because it's what is used as an academic standard term (and doesn't have the same 'otherness' issues as the phrase 'non-caucasian').

If I am talking specifically about people who are of black descent, then I would use the term black.

On a personal note, could you include a term for a British person with native American indian blood? (Apart from sexy)."

No offense taken, but things are Oriental, like a rug, or a vase, People are Asian.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The frequency at which light reflects off of someone's skin is by no means the most telling measure of a person's background."

classic

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By *rinking-in-laCouple
over a year ago

Bristol

Surely a general rule should be this: if you do not mean offence by something then it is OK. If subsequently you learn that a term offended or offends people for a valid reason, then a good idea for the sake of good manners would be to not call them that which offends them.

This idea that there is a correct nomenclature for everyone is bollocks. Someone is offended by almost every word going and as such it is principles we must follow not rigid rules. Rigid rules are almost always wrong in certain contexts and you will always offend someone eventually, it is how you deal with that which is important.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It may just be in the movies/TV, but why do our friends over the pond use the term "African-American" ?

Because they tend to come from African descent,, some Black people in America can trace their family back to slavery, majority of slaves were African. "

As I'm sure most Americans can trace their heritage back to Europe, but they aren't refered to as European-Americans.

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By *rinking-in-laCouple
over a year ago

Bristol

I use the term Persons of Colour because it's what is used as an academic standard term (and doesn't have the same 'otherness' issues as the phrase 'non-caucasian').

If I am talking specifically about people who are of black descent, then I would use the term black.

On a personal note, could you include a term for a British person with native American indian blood? (Apart from sexy).

No offense taken, but things are Oriental, like a rug, or a vase, People are Asian."

Only now that the word "orient" is not used as a geographic descriptor often anymore. Previously "orient" was as correct to describe the area people came from as Asian. Given that Asia is about 1/3rd the land mass of the planet Asian is a pretty useless descriptor. Oriental narrowed it down somewhat to a specific part of Asia.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

How can black be a colour? White is more of a colour than black if we are getting literal.

I would just tend to call them by their name.

You are, of course, quite right.

However I'm talking about when I wrote about the subject (I'm an art history student and journalist) and sometimes you do want to group people into ethnicity groups depending on their background.

Black is usually a word used to describe those of various types of african heritage and sometimes it's important to use that term. For instance I wrote an essay about the Black response to the British Museum's Africa gallery last year. It's a way of conveying to people which group I'm talking about. Saying 'African' for example wouldn't be specific enough, for you can have white African heritage which is a different group of people who have been historically more privileged. But 'Black African', for example, specifies a particular group of people.

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By *lackbirdtimestwoWoman
over a year ago

birmingham

"I'm Just putting it out there from MY point of view not bothered about being called black or coloured!!!! My kids are erm mixed race.... I call them half caste and that is it .

People can say what they want I can't stop that and I'll say what I want !!!

I have let's say an equal amount of mates of both sides of the fence so no CHIPS on my shoulders

Not a nice way to describe anyone

To be fair a word means what the utterer means it to mean.

The fact that others have used it to mean something else is not relevant and it is a conceit for anyone to say that they should or should not refer to themselves in a particular way."

I think it does matter, you're right one can call themselves what ever they want,,,, but their children???

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Won't someone think of the poor Columbians.

Many of them are very black and yet may never have been anywhere near the USA, the Caribbean or indeed Africa.

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By *rferrerorrocher OP Man
over a year ago

Brixton

The term coloured people had deep roots in English culture. Following that the media had a big part to play in the potrayal of people of all colours.

We see and take in what were fed from the media outlets. I understand there's no malice or I'll intention behind the term from most people but surely in this day and age we shouldn't still be allowing that term to be used.

Also the media will class anyone who has some sort of black heritage as black like Lewis Hamilton, Barack Obama and Tiger Woods.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I use the term Persons of Colour because it's what is used as an academic standard term (and doesn't have the same 'otherness' issues as the phrase 'non-caucasian').

If I am talking specifically about people who are of black descent, then I would use the term black.

On a personal note, could you include a term for a British person with native American indian blood? (Apart from sexy).

No offense taken, but things are Oriental, like a rug, or a vase, People are Asian.

I believe alot of the problems grew out of when Europeans culturally appropriated 'Oriental' lifestyles and then oppressed the people who they were 'admiring'.

We weren't very nice to the 'Orientals' and many have wanted to distance themselves from that relationship on both sides. In fact we still aren't very nice about their culture on websites like this, with the sexualisation of 'Oriental' women as submissive, and the assumption of 'Oriental' men being shit in bed.

Time to move on.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You know, what with all this PC and terminology, (modern and old, acceptable and unacceptable), it's a jungle out there.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It may just be in the movies/TV, but why do our friends over the pond use the term "African-American" ?

Because they tend to come from African descent,, some Black people in America can trace their family back to slavery, majority of slaves were African. "

I thought it was to differentiate them from 'native-american' people like the Sioux and so forth?

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By *lackbirdtimestwoWoman
over a year ago

birmingham

Won't someone think of the poor Columbians.

Many of them are very black and yet may never have been anywhere near the USA, the Caribbean or indeed Africa.

?????? Shrugging my shoulders in bemusement

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"We are all pink in the middle

That's all I have to say

But saying that 'we are all the same' suggests that we all have the same life experiences and opportunities in life.

The fact is that we don't, and erasing peoples experience by trying to pretend that we are all the same culturally is damaging to the less-privileged group."

That's not what I said....

Bottom line, we are all humans, we all deserve to be treated the same regardless of colour or life experience, class, wealth or any other factor.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Won't someone think of the poor Columbians.

Many of them are very black and yet may never have been anywhere near the USA, the Caribbean or indeed Africa.

?????? Shrugging my shoulders in bemusement

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

To be honest the term confuses me. You, OP, are not black, but rather a shade of brown...

Black is a very old term that isn't very accurate but remains to thus day.

A lot of people seem to be adopting the phrase 'person/people of colour' but even that is cap as cream/pink (and all other regional variants) are colours also.

So now I am just further confused and my head hurts...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

On a personal note, could you include a term for a British person with native American indian blood? (Apart from sexy)."

Once upon a time race description was oriental, Asian, Mediterranean, African, continental, aboriginal, native American and Hispanic. There is so much racial diversity, then the choices aren't as simple as white, mixed race and black, but someone is always going to be offended one way or the other.

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By *rinking-in-laCouple
over a year ago

Bristol

"I'm Just putting it out there from MY point of view not bothered about being called black or coloured!!!! My kids are erm mixed race.... I call them half caste and that is it .

People can say what they want I can't stop that and I'll say what I want !!!

I have let's say an equal amount of mates of both sides of the fence so no CHIPS on my shoulders

Not a nice way to describe anyone

To be fair a word means what the utterer means it to mean.

The fact that others have used it to mean something else is not relevant and it is a conceit for anyone to say that they should or should not refer to themselves in a particular way.

I think it does matter, you're right one can call themselves what ever they want,,,, but their children??? "

Yes. Their children. Bloody hell.

The first thing you do is give your child a name.

How is a phrase or word automatically offensive without even considering the context in which it is used and by whom with what intent?

It is remarkably pretentious to decide, totally removed from the situation as you and I are, what phrase or descriptor a family or parent can or should use to describe their own children.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I use the term Persons of Colour because it's what is used as an academic standard term (and doesn't have the same 'otherness' issues as the phrase 'non-caucasian').

If I am talking specifically about people who are of black descent, then I would use the term black.

On a personal note, could you include a term for a British person with native American indian blood? (Apart from sexy).

No offense taken, but things are Oriental, like a rug, or a vase, People are Asian.

I remain completely confused. Especially because I am really quite rubbish at guessing someone's country of origin and/or ethnicity.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"We are all pink in the middle

That's all I have to say

But saying that 'we are all the same' suggests that we all have the same life experiences and opportunities in life.

The fact is that we don't, and erasing peoples experience by trying to pretend that we are all the same culturally is damaging to the less-privileged group.

That's not what I said....

Bottom line, we are all humans, we all deserve to be treated the same regardless of colour or life experience, class, wealth or any other factor."

But the fact is that we are not all treated the same.

So it is damaging to pretend that we are.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

On a personal note, could you include a term for a British person with native American indian blood? (Apart from sexy).

Oh, bollocks. Then I am never going to get it right and will just have to avoid the whole thing, which is pretty much where I had got to anyway.

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

I use the term Persons of Colour because it's what is used as an academic standard term (and doesn't have the same 'otherness' issues as the phrase 'non-caucasian').

If I am talking specifically about people who are of black descent, then I would use the term black.

On a personal note, could you include a term for a British person with native American indian blood? (Apart from sexy).

No offense taken, but things are Oriental, like a rug, or a vase, People are Asian.

The Orient is everything east of the Balkans and over to the Pacific. If you want to refer to people from there as Oriental, then you should refer to people west of the Balkans to the Atlantic as Occidental

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I refer to anyone darker than my Irish blue/white as non white and myself as "other"... Although technically on my gas registration form....I actually am " other "as there's no box for white-British let alone white-English

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By *rinking-in-laCouple
over a year ago

Bristol

I use the term Persons of Colour because it's what is used as an academic standard term (and doesn't have the same 'otherness' issues as the phrase 'non-caucasian').

If I am talking specifically about people who are of black descent, then I would use the term black.

On a personal note, could you include a term for a British person with native American indian blood? (Apart from sexy).

No offense taken, but things are Oriental, like a rug, or a vase, People are Asian.

I believe alot of the problems grew out of when Europeans culturally appropriated 'Oriental' lifestyles and then oppressed the people who they were 'admiring'.

Time to move on."

By your rule only. I know a number of Chinese people who refer to themselves as oriental.

Let's get to the basic premise here. A word is only damaging if you mean it to be.

If you use a descriptor in good faith and you do not mean to subjugate or marginalise the person on the basis of thaT descriptor then it is not offensive per se.

However if the recipient of that descriptor, through experience or otherwise has just cause to fIndia that a particular descriptor either offends them or is in another way insensitive then you should be prepared to take that on board with due redress if you have been negligent.

By this point in a discussion you probably do not need to use generic descriptors as you probably know their name.

If as you alluded to, you are writing in an academic or other fashion, then you should be calling a place by it'a current name unless you are speaking in a historical context. Therefore to describe a mass of people by their local geographic origin alone you should use the name for that area as it is relative to the time you are referring.

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By *rferrerorrocher OP Man
over a year ago

Brixton

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By *rinking-in-laCouple
over a year ago

Bristol

I use the term Persons of Colour because it's what is used as an academic standard term (and doesn't have the same 'otherness' issues as the phrase 'non-caucasian').

If I am talking specifically about people who are of black descent, then I would use the term black.

On a personal note, could you include a term for a British person with native American indian blood? (Apart from sexy).

No offense taken, but things are Oriental, like a rug, or a vase, People are Asian.

I believe alot of the problems grew out of when Europeans culturally appropriated 'Oriental' lifestyles and then oppressed the people who they were 'admiring'.

Time to move on.

By your rule only. I know a number of Chinese people who refer to themselves as oriental.

Let's get to the basic premise here. A word is only damaging if you mean it to be.

If you use a descriptor in good faith and you do not mean to subjugate or marginalise the person on the basis of thaT descriptor then it is not offensive per se.

By this point in a discussion you probably do not need to use generic descriptors as you probably know their name.

Apologies for the typos. I have a new phone and it has a mind of it's own regarding autocorrect.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Just as a black guys view here,

People with are mixed can choose how they identity juat because they're half white or halfw Chinese etc if they say they're black accept it and move on. Too many of my friends have been in shouting matches over if they were 'black enough'

As to an acceptable terms my mum and grandmother (both black) use black and half caste my dad who is mixed uses mixed race.

If you never want to be wrong use black for obviously black people and mixed race if you're not sure.

I'm my personal experience I've been called everything under the sun and my barometer as to whether I get annoyed is the intention so if you're deliberately trying to get a rise from me by calling me boy or coloured or whatever me will have a problem.

On the other side of the coin I met an ex girlfriends nan once who dropped nigger, coloured and darkie within one afternoon and was a bit out of touch but lovely otherwise. (As we were leaving she gave me some welsh cakes and let me know that I wasn't like the other ones

)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

African culture????

My Egyptian friend does a rather funny pub skit about being an African.

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By *rinking-in-laCouple
over a year ago

Bristol

On a personal note, could you include a term for a British person with native American indian blood? (Apart from sexy).

Oh, bollocks. Then I am never going to get it right and will just have to avoid the whole thing, which is pretty much where I had got to anyway."

Stop trying to be right. Concentrate on just being nice and treating people with respect. Then occasionally you may have to apologise when you say something that offends a specific person for a specific reason, but that itself can be a massive build of trust and the genesis of a good relationship if handled properly.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I use the term Persons of Colour because it's what is used as an academic standard term (and doesn't have the same 'otherness' issues as the phrase 'non-caucasian').

If I am talking specifically about people who are of black descent, then I would use the term black.

On a personal note, could you include a term for a British person with native American indian blood? (Apart from sexy).

No offense taken, but things are Oriental, like a rug, or a vase, People are Asian.

o·ri·en·tal (ôr'e-en'tl) adj.

1. often Oriental Of or relating to the countries of the Orient or their peoples or cultures; eastern.

2. Oriental Biology : Of or designating the biogeographic region that includes South Asia south of the Himalaya Mountains and Southeast Asia from southern China to Borneo.

Oriental n.

1. An Asian, especially a South Asian, Southeast Asian, or East Asian.

FTFY

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

To be honest the term confuses me. You, OP, are not black, but rather a shade of brown...

Black is a very old term that isn't very accurate but remains to thus day.

A lot of people seem to be adopting the phrase 'person/people of colour' but even that is cap as cream/pink (and all other regional variants) are colours also.

So now I am just further confused and my head hurts..."

Referring back to Halle Berry she is definitely mixed race and not black, where as Frank Bruno is considerably darker skinned where he can be termed black. Both of these these people are absolute stars in there own right it would be a shame to pigeon hole these people by color

So what can we do to differentiate? It's not like we can carry around a Dulux style colour chart. We tend to be generic for fear of offending.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I can't help but think it would help matters immensely if an immediate stop was put to "being offended on someone else's behalf."

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By *rinking-in-laCouple
over a year ago

Bristol

To be honest the term confuses me. You, OP, are not black, but rather a shade of brown...

Black is a very old term that isn't very accurate but remains to thus day.

A lot of people seem to be adopting the phrase 'person/people of colour' but even that is cap as cream/pink (and all other regional variants) are colours also.

So now I am just further confused and my head hurts...

So what can we do to differentiate? It's not like we can carry around a Dulux style colour chart. We tend to be generic for fear of offending."

We are almost all mixed race even if we are in one obvious colour bracket. I (Andy) have pale white skin but have mixed race heritage. Scottish and German in the past 100 years but before that who knows what races combined to make my ancestors.

Skin colour is not an indicator of race alone. It needs a huge number of other factors to understand. No one on earth is a pure bred race. That sorta shit went out with the Nazis.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Stop trying to be right? Really? If I had no respect for people, that might be good advice but I am afraid that I have always tried to be right. I have no wish whatsoever to cause any offence.

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

Drinking in La, just because your Chinese friends say Oriental, doesn't mean that it is the correct word to use. If they are Chinese then I am assuming they are non-native speakers of English. As I am assuming a lot of the people mentioned in this thread who are struggling with the correct terms are native speakers, we should not really expect non-native speakers to use the correct words 100% of the time.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

To be honest the term confuses me. You, OP, are not black, but rather a shade of brown...

Black is a very old term that isn't very accurate but remains to thus day.

A lot of people seem to be adopting the phrase 'person/people of colour' but even that is cap as cream/pink (and all other regional variants) are colours also.

So now I am just further confused and my head hurts...

So what can we do to differentiate? It's not like we can carry around a Dulux style colour chart. We tend to be generic for fear of offending.

Skin colour is not an indicator of race alone. It needs a huge number of other factors to understand. No one on earth is a pure bred race. That sorta shit went out with the Nazis."

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By *rinking-in-laCouple
over a year ago

Bristol

Stop trying to be right? Really? If I had no respect for people, that might be good advice but I am afraid that I have always tried to be right. I have no wish whatsoever to cause any offence."

You totally missed the point of my post. The obsession with rules and using the correct phrase and thus "being right" in that context dooms us to failure because fashions and "acceptable" phrases change at a moment's twitter campaign. However adhering to the principle of treating people with respect and kindness means that even on the off chance you do say something to someone they dont like, if you meant it with respect and care you can have the fortitude to say so and enquire as to how to redress the situation.

However to assume that all people of one skin colour want to be described in the same way is like saying all women want to be called skinny or all men want to be called muscular. It is totally short sighted and pigeon holes people in a stupid clumsy and thoughtless way.

"Being right" in this context means adhering rigidly to the uttering of the most fashionable phrase at any given time and is both moronic and doomed to fail as fashion changes.

We need to stick to principles and not rigid rules. If we use our own brains and do not outsource our thinking to the "Rules" then we stand a much better chance of actually treating people with kindness and respect.

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By *rinking-in-laCouple
over a year ago

Bristol

"Drinking in La, just because your Chinese friends say Oriental, doesn't mean that it is the correct word to use. If they are Chinese then I am assuming they are non-native speakers of English. As I am assuming a lot of the people mentioned in this thread who are struggling with the correct terms are native speakers, we should not really expect non-native speakers to use the correct words 100% of the time."

Good heavens, there is no "correct " word. Is this such a hard concept to grasp. To assume that 2 billion people should all rejoice in the same description is ridiculous. And who are you to patronise someone and tell them that their English is insufficient and they are offending themselves?

Also I spoke about these people in the plural. Some are 2nd and 3rd generation expats who have lived in the UK all their lives.

Stop being offended on their behalf.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I usually find it easiest to ask for a name, Steve is much easier to say than coloured gentleman of North West Asian origins

if you are not interested in getting that personal Oi You often works too

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By *rinking-in-laCouple
over a year ago

Bristol

"I usually find it easiest to ask for a name, Steve is much easier to say than coloured gentleman of North West Asian origins

if you are not interested in getting that personal Oi You often works too

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By *hocolate007Man
over a year ago

london

How can black be a colour? White is more of a colour than black if we are getting literal.

I would just tend to call them by their name.

You are, of course, quite right.

However I'm talking about when I wrote about the subject (I'm an art history student and journalist) and sometimes you do want to group people into ethnicity groups depending on their background.

it must have been a very confusing essay you put together, first off the term black african contradicts itself as africans have a dark shade of brown skin not black skin and by saying ' black africans' specify a particular group of people, puzzles me - 85% of africans have dark skin, 15% have a much more lighter skin shade except ofcourse there are red, blue or green africans that ive never heard of. The term black / white is a logically retarded term as the human skin colour cant fully exhibit these two shades of colour due to the presence of red blood cells and melanin in our bodies. Politically speaking we are all ill-defined by a colour black / white, but logically speaking africans are not of the black colour spectrum neither are europeans of the white colour spectrum. The difference in our skin tones is determined by the presence or absence of the melanin hormone and the differences in our skin tone is the beauty of the human race and deep down inside we are all the same. I was gona ask you tho,

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Also I spoke about these people in the plural. Some are 2nd and 3rd generation expats who have lived in the UK all their lives.

Stop being offended on their behalf."

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

Also I spoke about these people in the plural. Some are 2nd and 3rd generation expats who have lived in the UK all their lives.

Stop being offended on their behalf."

You are the one who refered to them as Chinese, I personally would refer to 2nd and 3rd generation Expats as British. I'm not offended on anyones behalf.

You go ahead and call people what you want, it completely goes against the grain of the thread, but you do what you like.

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By *rinking-in-laCouple
over a year ago

Bristol

Also I spoke about these people in the plural. Some are 2nd and 3rd generation expats who have lived in the UK all their lives.

Stop being offended on their behalf.

You are the one who refered to them as Chinese, I personally would refer to 2nd and 3rd generation Expats as British. I'm not offended on anyones behalf.

You go ahead and call people what you want, it completely goes against the grain of the thread, but you do what you like."

They have Chinese passports and consider themselves as Chinese. That is good enough for me. However given that language is not machine code, they refer to themselves with myriad terms. Some no doubt they should be stopped as they are by the measure of some of the posts on here, they are offending themselves and they are not "correct" in how they refer to their own being.

I am not even sure how that works.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Stop trying to be right? Really? If I had no respect for people, that might be good advice but I am afraid that I have always tried to be right. I have no wish whatsoever to cause any offence.

"Being right" in this context means adhering rigidly to the uttering of the most fashionable phrase at any given time and is both moronic and doomed to fail as fashion changes.

I am quite able to do that and did not by any means miss the point you made.

We do, however, have to negotiate a minefield of a political world. I have seen major public figures derided on social media for using "antiquated" terms.

It seems my conclusion from the posts here that there is no safe way to refer to ethnicity. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

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By *rank EinsteinMan
over a year ago

Burton upon stather

Did you know the communication app LINE is racist?

Deadly serious, if you type this face

you can choose from several emoticons.

Two of which are done in the same style and are used together.

One is a devils face whos eyes are looking to the right, the other is a black guy whos eyes are looking left.

So it looks like the black guy and the devil are looking at each other and smiling

There's no matching white guy emoticon...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Oh, bollocks. Then I am never going to get it right and will just have to avoid the whole thing, which is pretty much where I had got to anyway.

Just to show my age a little bit more, in the 60's 70's there was only black, white and half cast.

In my school days when the half cast generation started to reach sexual maturity, then started a generation of quarter cast children, one half cast and a one white parent would make what was termed at the time as a 'coffee colored kid', whereas a thee quarter cast child was still black.

This generation some are trying to categorise racial diversity in degrees of 1/32 and 1/64 cast.

We really shouldn't be categorising anybody by skin tone, is he a nice person or a complete arse? Skin colour makes no difference to their personality.

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By *rinking-in-laCouple
over a year ago

Bristol

Stop trying to be right? Really? If I had no respect for people, that might be good advice but I am afraid that I have always tried to be right. I have no wish whatsoever to cause any offence.

"Being right" in this context means adhering rigidly to the uttering of the most fashionable phrase at any given time and is both moronic and doomed to fail as fashion changes.

I am quite able to do that and did not by any means miss the point you made.

We do, however, have to negotiate a minefield of a political world. I have seen major public figures derided on social media for using "antiquated" terms.

It seems my conclusion from the posts here that there is no safe way to refer to ethnicity. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Correct so adhere to the good principles and then you are in a position to defend yourself if someone needs to take offence to validate their existence.

Also the point you raise about the political landscape is a good one.

The political landscape is currently a poisonous one and many people who are called out for perceived slights are usually done so not because they offended anyone who was not looking to be offended but because other people are trying to facilitate that person's downfall for their own gain.

Therefore it is incumbent on us to adhere to the good principle even more as the public because to get sucked into the political correctness fashion parade of self aggrandising fuckwits who are only trying to feather their own political nest serves only to make these fuckwits more powerful and more successful. And to make the landscape harder for you and I to navigate.

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By *rank EinsteinMan
over a year ago

Burton upon stather

Crap, the face is : )

But all together

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Top tip :

Before using Google's "Photo" App, make sure they have sorted out their AI algorithm first .

In fact, algorithm wasn't a bad guess, at all.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

My children are mixed I keep it real there black

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By *rank EinsteinMan
over a year ago

Burton upon stather

[Removed by poster at 13/07/15 16:46:14]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Oh, bollocks. Then I am never going to get it right and will just have to avoid the whole thing, which is pretty much where I had got to anyway.

Just to show my age a little bit more, in the 60's 70's there was only black, white and half cast.

This generation some are trying to categorise racial diversity in degrees of 1/32 and 1/64 cast.

We really shouldn't be categorising anybody by skin tone, is he a nice person or a complete arse? Skin colour makes no difference to their personality."

Even older, here. Same issues. The problem only occurs when trying to describe ethnicity. Skin colour of course does not define personality but there are situations where it is not possible to avoid some categorisation.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

How can black be a colour? White is more of a colour than black if we are getting literal.

I would just tend to call them by their name.

You are, of course, quite right.

However I'm talking about when I wrote about the subject (I'm an art history student and journalist) and sometimes you do want to group people into ethnicity groups depending on their background.

Considering that academics refer to themselves as Black, and their work as Black Theory, I'm ok taking their lead and following their examples.

I look to the experts in the field when using terms that are outside of my sphere of experience and asses their contributions on their own lived experience. In the case of Black Theory I have followed the lead of some prominent Black Theorists who identify themselves as Black.

I'm not saying they're right, but they lay down pretty convincing arguments. They certainly can't speak for everyone who has a non-caucasian skin colour, but it certainly helps to work out what words you want to use to refer to people (I also study feminist and queer theories) so that you can get on with the interesting parts of the debates rather than the semantics.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I was born in the 60's

Life was good "better" in the 60's

and there were no concerns then of how you classify someone

still remember and love the 70's too and "love thy neighbour" was so funny to watch

guess the people of today thinking they are all so politically correct put a stop to the good ol days

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Everything relating to black, white and mixed is a very subjective opinion and differs within their own ethnic group, Is a person black, colored, both or neither?

There is no magic formula that says that up to 5/64th cast is white, between 6/64th and 57/64th are colored/mixed race and 58/64th onwards are black.

It may even come down to a more unfathomable subjective opinion , anyone darker than me is black, anyone paler is white. Noone is going to get it right all the time , the best we can do is be respectful and diplomatic and hope we don't start a race riot or end up in a disciplinary hearing at work.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's much better to use a label someone declares for themselves as opposed to one you choose for them.

You wouldn't suddenly call someone introduced to you as catherine as angela, so if someone calls themself black don't call them coloured. If they never openly label themselves you have no right to label them.

It's all quite simple at the heart of it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

All we know is that whatever the colour , ethnicity , or any name anyone wants to give , if they're fit and clean we love to play with them

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By *isexmistressWoman
over a year ago

Prestwich

Manhole cover...There,said it...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

How can black be a colour? White is more of a colour than black if we are getting literal.

I would just tend to call them by their name.

You are, of course, quite right.

However I'm talking about when I wrote about the subject (I'm an art history student and journalist) and sometimes you do want to group people into ethnicity groups depending on their background.

Considering that academics refer to themselves as Black, and their work as Black Theory, I'm ok taking their lead and following their examples.

Black feminist academics eh? Good role models eh?

Like Mireille Miller Young, a professor (sic) of Feminist Studies, UoC-Santa Barbara? A POC by the way.

Who thought it wonderful to attack two white women lawfully and peacefully using the University's own and specifically provided "free-speech zone" to make their point.

Apparently, this "triggered" the professor (sic) and violated her "right to go to work and not be in harm".

The Feminist Wire leapt to her defence.

Makes a good read for anyone who wishes to :

a) have a bloody good laugh, and despair a little, and

b) leap on the outraged "how dare two white women cause a POC to do that" brigade.

Make no wonder mental health issues are on the rise, Feminist Wire should come with a Health Warning on its cover/front page.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I was born in the 60's

Life was good "better" in the 60's

and there were no concerns then of how you classify someone

still remember and love the 70's too and "love thy neighbour" was so funny to watch

guess the people of today thinking they are all so politically correct put a stop to the good ol days"

Yes it was wonderful back then. When you could be arrested for gay sex, and when black people were prevented from doing certain things.

Politically Correct - a term for things you personally find ridiculous but that other people seem to agree with?

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By *rivate auditionsMan
over a year ago

West Midlands

"Growing up I was told saying a "black person" was offensive and to use "coloured person" instead. I had always thought that was odd as I'd never seen a person of 'colour' (green, blue etc)

Exactly the same in my younger days!,then it got changed overnight and you were in the wrong all of a sudden for saying Coloured.

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By *ethepeopleMan
over a year ago

Near you

"I'm Just putting it out there from MY point of view not bothered about being called black or coloured!!!! My kids are erm mixed race.... I call them half caste and that is it .

People can say what they want I can't stop that and I'll say what I want !!!

I have let's say an equal amount of mates of both sides of the fence so no CHIPS on my shoulders

Not a nice way to describe anyone "
Again I'm not bothered what's right or wrong I can't control that !!! That is how it was when I young and it has stuck if you or anyone else doesn't like it .......

My children are very well rounded and whilst they don't suffer fools gladly ! I have built in to them a sticks and stones shield and I know it works because we often take the piss out of each other weekly!

So again they know there worth in this world and have no chips or race cards up the sleeve to pull out ........ We just roll with the punches and make best of whatever is thrown at us .

And in closing a big apology if I have upset anyone and my children were not harmed in the making of their lives lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Growing up I was told saying a "black person" was offensive and to use "coloured person" instead. I had always thought that was odd as I'd never seen a person of 'colour' (green, blue etc)

Exactly the same in my younger days!,then it got changed overnight and you were in the wrong all of a sudden for saying Coloured."

But I get messages on here from 'black' men, asking 'do you meet coloured guys at all ?'

People I work with, correct us if refer to them as black, they prefer to be called coloured, as they feel it reflects their white parent

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By *hocolate007Man
over a year ago

london

How can black be a colour? White is more of a colour than black if we are getting literal.

I would just tend to call them by their name.

You are, of course, quite right.

However I'm talking about when I wrote about the subject (I'm an art history student and journalist) and sometimes you do want to group people into ethnicity groups depending on their background.

Considering that academics refer to themselves as Black, and their work as Black Theory, I'm ok taking their lead and following their examples.

could you give an example of an academic that refers to himself as black or white please, i would love to study the academic to know if he is a brainwashed soul or a person of sound mind free from the subconcious hierarchy programming. Lets assume the same academics instruct you to stick your fingers in a flame will u follow suit or challenge their motives. Its easy for society to lean towards what is perceived as the norm but what makes a sound mind unique is its ability to question and challenge every form of information its been fed and redefine life from its own perspective . The academics you refering to probably need to go spec savers as they might either be colour blind or simply have no concept of what a black or white colour really is.

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By *erbyDalesCplCouple
over a year ago

Derbyshire

That's where I start to struggle, with the concept of Black politics. The idea that a high-court barrister, a kid from a deprived neighbourhood of London, and a Somali asylum seeker are all somehow identical and share a common brotherhood. There are areas of deprivation where we need intervention to help improve the life-chances of the next generation, but it matters not whether they are from Tower Hamlets, Easington, or the Welsh valleys.

My politics is not white, but a mix of blue and yellowy-orange, (which doesn't make green, since they're all reds, and worse than Gordon Brown) (hopefully Sexybum won't spot that, or he'll go purple and kick me black and blue)

Apologies to any colours I missed.

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

Can we just have this handy, catch-all phrase:

'Human'

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"That's where I start to struggle, with the concept of Black politics. The idea that a high-court barrister, a kid from a deprived neighbourhood of London, and a Somali asylum seeker are all somehow identical and share a common brotherhood. There are areas of deprivation where we need intervention to help improve the life-chances of the next generation, but it matters not whether they are from Tower Hamlets, Easington, or the Welsh valleys.

Apologies to any colours I missed."

Of course they are not identical.

Wasn't it the black opportunity-denied High Court Barrister Tory Lord who was so impoverished that he was sent to prison for stealing from the public by way of fiddled expense claims?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Apologies to any colours I missed."
.

Ure name is going in zee book

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By *awandOrderCouple
over a year ago

SW London

Why do black people still call themselves black or black***** in this day and age? Aren't people people?

Especially when, at best, they're half white? Is that not disrespectful to the white parent, frequently the mother.

And how many, many generations must pass before African/American is no longer relevant.

yrs sincerely

Neanderthal Joe

Because they're allowed to be proud of their heritage, as are you regardless of people saying you can be proud to be black but not white.

I'm a straight, white, English man and I'm proud of it, anybody that calls me racist or sexist or homophobic because of that is wrong

I think the point he's making is if they have one white parent and one black patent how can they still class themselves as black when they equally white

As the white mother, I can say categorically it is not disrespectful. I have asked my son this on more than a few occasions, if he feels more black or white? Neither quite, he says, he feels different, but when we came to England, having been in a community with very few black people, he felt so much more at home and was drawn more towards the black community. I told him he has basically grown up in a white family, run by me until I got with my OH, who is black and also has mixed race children with a white mother. There are many, many mixed raced children, indeed I would go so far as to say they are the norm in some areas, I think they can feel more 'other' and certainly need some reassurance that they belong somewhere .... something I do think about for the sake of our children.

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By *rinking-in-laCouple
over a year ago

Bristol

How can black be a colour? White is more of a colour than black if we are getting literal.

I would just tend to call them by their name.

You are, of course, quite right.

However I'm talking about when I wrote about the subject (I'm an art history student and journalist) and sometimes you do want to group people into ethnicity groups depending on their background.

Considering that academics refer to themselves as Black, and their work as Black Theory, I'm ok taking their lead and following their examples.

Black feminist academics eh? Good role models eh?

Like Mireille Miller Young, a professor (sic) of Feminist Studies, UoC-Santa Barbara? A POC by the way.

Who thought it wonderful to attack two white women lawfully and peacefully using the University's own and specifically provided "free-speech zone" to make their point.

Apparently, this "triggered" the professor (sic) and violated her "right to go to work and not be in harm".

The Feminist Wire leapt to her defence.

Makes a good read for anyone who wishes to :

a) have a bloody good laugh, and despair a little, and

b) leap on the outraged "how dare two white women cause a POC to do that" brigade.

Make no wonder mental health issues are on the rise, Feminist Wire should come with a Health Warning on its cover/front page.

Further evidence if any more were needed that pricks are pricks irrespective of their ethnicity or political leaning.

For too long those who are on the side of a minority or oppressed group's desire for equality are able to hide their private bigotry and agendas conceived therein behind the veneer of many a respectable cause.

That is why so many women do not identify with feminism for example. It is a tarnished brand which has been ruined by extremists. Despite what many idiots in this country think, ethnic minorities can have racists in their midst.

Pricks are pricks. Let's not damage good causes like universal equality and human rights because of some intolerant bigots.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

How can black be a colour? White is more of a colour than black if we are getting literal.

I would just tend to call them by their name.

You are, of course, quite right.

However I'm talking about when I wrote about the subject (I'm an art history student and journalist) and sometimes you do want to group people into ethnicity groups depending on their background.

Considering that academics refer to themselves as Black, and their work as Black Theory, I'm ok taking their lead and following their examples.

Black feminist academics eh? Good role models eh?

Like Mireille Miller Young, a professor (sic) of Feminist Studies, UoC-Santa Barbara? A POC by the way.

Who thought it wonderful to attack two white women lawfully and peacefully using the University's own and specifically provided "free-speech zone" to make their point.

Apparently, this "triggered" the professor (sic) and violated her "right to go to work and not be in harm".

The Feminist Wire leapt to her defence.

Makes a good read for anyone who wishes to :

a) have a bloody good laugh, and despair a little, and

b) leap on the outraged "how dare two white women cause a POC to do that" brigade.

Make no wonder mental health issues are on the rise, Feminist Wire should come with a Health Warning on its cover/front page.

Further evidence if any more were needed that pricks are pricks irrespective of their ethnicity or political leaning.

Pricks are pricks. Let's not damage good causes like universal equality and human rights because of some intolerant bigots."

Absolutely correct

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By *rown ThunderMan
over a year ago

newport

Who gives a rat's arse ? As long as your not being derogatory or racist..calling someone black..brown.. coloured ...is absolutely 100% Fine. Some People just chat shit for the sake of it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I do think there are those that are good hearted but unintentionally racist, also those that are unsure of how to describe any race or ethnicity in this PC world, and clearly the openly racist.

I really struggle to best describe those of differing parental race, e.g. Black mother and white father, as I have friends who describe themselves differently etc. I think the term 'coloured' is awful though.

I think society is improving, but it's still a racist culture amongst many pockets of society.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

How can black be a colour? White is more of a colour than black if we are getting literal.

I would just tend to call them by their name.

You are, of course, quite right.

However I'm talking about when I wrote about the subject (I'm an art history student and journalist) and sometimes you do want to group people into ethnicity groups depending on their background.

Considering that academics refer to themselves as Black, and their work as Black Theory, I'm ok taking their lead and following their examples.

Black feminist academics eh? Good role models eh?

Like Mireille Miller Young, a professor (sic) of Feminist Studies, UoC-Santa Barbara? A POC by the way.

Who thought it wonderful to attack two white women lawfully and peacefully using the University's own and specifically provided "free-speech zone" to make their point.

Apparently, this "triggered" the professor (sic) and violated her "right to go to work and not be in harm".

The Feminist Wire leapt to her defence.

Makes a good read for anyone who wishes to :

a) have a bloody good laugh, and despair a little, and

b) leap on the outraged "how dare two white women cause a POC to do that" brigade.

Make no wonder mental health issues are on the rise, Feminist Wire should come with a Health Warning on its cover/front page.

Further evidence if any more were needed that pricks are pricks irrespective of their ethnicity or political leaning.

Pricks are pricks. Let's not damage good causes like universal equality and human rights because of some intolerant bigots."

Trust me, the racism, hatred and bigotry expressed (against the white women, one as young as 16 i believe) was not hidden at all, quite explicit.

And did the professor lose her job? Not that i know of.

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By *oStringsFun68Man
over a year ago

Perth

I used to work for a big American company, and they always referred to "black" people as "people of colour". Bearing in mind, this company was ultra-PC, daren't offend anyone. But it always struck me as very odd. I'm a "person of colour" - I'm pale pink, or bright red if I spend too long in the sun.

Personally I don't find the term "black" in any way offensive. It's a description of their skin colour, nothing more. It's just that certain people seem to equate this with the old slavery regime.

Another example : my mum is a physiotherapist, and specialises in children with physical disabilities. When she was first practising, the term "Spastic" meant "someone with cerebral palsy". But you can't say that word now. Indeed, the charity that was called "The Spastics Society" is now called "Scope". Why ? Times change, but most well-meaning people refer to "groups" of people as they were taught to refer to them, without meaning any malice.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I used to work for a big American company, and they always referred to "black" people as "people of colour". Bearing in mind, this company was ultra-PC, daren't offend anyone. But it always struck me as very odd. I'm a "person of colour" - I'm pale pink, or bright red if I spend too long in the sun.

Personally I don't find the term "black" in any way offensive. It's a description of their skin colour, nothing more. It's just that certain people seem to equate this with the old slavery regime.

Give it a couple of years and "person of colour" will be offensive to those who love being offended, or to those who love being offended on behalf of someone else. Can somebody please let me know when the next meeting to decide on ethnic terminology is to be held? Thanks.

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By *erbyDalesCplCouple
over a year ago

Derbyshire

"Trust me,

the racism, hatred and bigotry expressed (against the white women, one as young as 16 i believe) was not hidden at all, quite explicit.

And did the professor lose her job? Not that i know of. "

Apologies for not trusting you, but am I watching the wrong video or something?

I saw nothing racist, nor feminist, nor anti-feminist, nor bigoted.

I saw two spoilt young women, trespassing on university property, refusing to leave, and harassing a professor (why sic? Is she not a professor?) by preventing her from leaving in a lift.

Yes, one was white and the other black, but I don't see the relevance here, and surely crying racism where none exists is wrong even when white people do it?

Or did I get the wrong video?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Trust me,

the racism, hatred and bigotry expressed (against the white women, one as young as 16 i believe) was not hidden at all, quite explicit.

And did the professor lose her job? Not that i know of.

Apologies for not trusting you, but am I watching the wrong video or something?

I saw nothing racist, nor feminist, nor anti-feminist, nor bigoted.

I saw two spoilt young women, trespassing on university property, refusing to leave, and harassing a professor (why sic? Is she not a professor?) by preventing her from leaving in a lift.

Yes, one was white and the other black, but I don't see the relevance here, and surely crying racism where none exists is wrong even when white people do it?

Or did I get the wrong video?

re professor (sic), that's how the US news article described her. Quite why it didn't capitalise it (twice) i don't know as I myself assume she is a Professor given her employment.

The racism, hatred and bigotry follows the event, made by her supporters in "Femine Wired" and social media posts thereafter.

ps no apologies ever required but thanks.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

like - who gives a fuck ? Why are we all still so obsessed with bollock subjects like this ?!

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By *erbyDalesCplCouple
over a year ago

Derbyshire

re professor (sic), that's how the US news article described her. Quite why it didn't capitalise it (twice) i don't know as I myself assume she is a Professor given her employment.

The racism, hatred and bigotry follows the event, made by her supporters in "Femine Wired" and social media posts thereafter.

ps no apologies ever required but thanks.

Ahh, I think in America, the term 'professor' simply relates to any teacher in a college or university, so wouldn't necessarily be capitalised.

From what I saw in the video, her 'supporters' were simply her students, so the whole thing comes across as a bit of a childish spat.

I'll have a look for the articles, but it still looks like someone deliberately making a mountain out of a molehill. As always, it's interesting in any filmed altercation how the juicy bit at the start always gets edited out, leaving us to substitute our own preconceived ideas. (Which, natch, includes me)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Personal opinion only...

Black, white, mixed race or any othe description the pc brigade would like to give people makes no difference.

People will cause offence by using the wrong term do describe others and generally no harm is intentionally intended.

If you are describing a black person and refer to him as african american he may be offended especially if he is jamaican. So to not offend you would need to find out his heritage and then say he is jamaican american... think it may be easier just to ask his name.

Truth is BE offended and outraged if peopleuse terms like wog, coon and other such vile terms. Black/ coloured is not in any way deliberately offensive but as always education is key. Our children will learn their values from us and their children from them. Hopefully in another hundred years our great grandkids will be amazed that we were so racist and I don't only mean white people as there is racism from every culture in this country and that will not change if we as a country don't and sometimes people trying to be too pc only hinders the change.

Treat others as you, yourself would like to be treated.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Well isn't this awkward... You guys are talking about me ...0.o

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By *awandOrderCouple
over a year ago

SW London

"Personal opinion only...

Black, white, mixed race or any othe description the pc brigade would like to give people makes no difference.

People will cause offence by using the wrong term do describe others and generally no harm is intentionally intended.

Treat others as you, yourself would like to be treated.

Interesting to categorise ourselves on official forms. My son is technically African American and British mixed but such a category does not exist on British forms, he is not black African and white British mixed, nor is he afro Caribbean and white British mixed, so I always end up putting other for all of us .... but as I stated on an earlier post, more and more mixed children who cannot be squeezed into square boxes

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By *erbyDalesCplCouple
over a year ago

Derbyshire

I'll have a look for the articles, "

Could only find two "Why you should never engage with an abortion protester" in Salon and "Why I Am In Solidarity with Mireille Miller-Young" in The Feminist Wire.

I'd still side with the professor.

It seems she was even forced to plead guilty to theft in order to keep her job.(When they refused to remove their posters and leave, she removed the signs herself) Oh, and the group the 'innocent little white girls' belonged to had apparently just bombed an abortion clinic.

Nice.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Politically Correct - a term for things you personally find ridiculous but that other people seem to agree with?"

Apparently some people have felt the need to send me hateful and bile filled messages based on this statement.

In the future, please feel free to write your comments in the forums rather than sending cowardly emails.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

How can black be a colour? White is more of a colour than black if we are getting literal.

I would just tend to call them by their name.

You are, of course, quite right.

However I'm talking about when I wrote about the subject (I'm an art history student and journalist) and sometimes you do want to group people into ethnicity groups depending on their background.

Considering that academics refer to themselves as Black, and their work as Black Theory, I'm ok taking their lead and following their examples.

Black feminist academics eh? Good role models eh?

Like Mireille Miller Young, a professor (sic) of Feminist Studies, UoC-Santa Barbara? A POC by the way.

Who thought it wonderful to attack two white women lawfully and peacefully using the University's own and specifically provided "free-speech zone" to make their point.

Apparently, this "triggered" the professor (sic) and violated her "right to go to work and not be in harm".

The Feminist Wire leapt to her defence.

Makes a good read for anyone who wishes to :

a) have a bloody good laugh, and despair a little, and

b) leap on the outraged "how dare two white women cause a POC to do that" brigade.

Make no wonder mental health issues are on the rise, Feminist Wire should come with a Health Warning on its cover/front page.

Further evidence if any more were needed that pricks are pricks irrespective of their ethnicity or political leaning.

Pricks are pricks. Let's not damage good causes like universal equality and human rights because of some intolerant bigots.

I would just tend to call them by their name.

Trust me, the racism, hatred and bigotry expressed (against the white women, one as young as 16 i believe) was not hidden at all, quite explicit.

And did the professor lose her job? Not that i know of. "

wow; that's a big read, I just skipped through it, maybe someone could read and update me with a shorter version

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By *arry247Couple
over a year ago

Wakefield

I use the term Persons of Colour because it's what is used as an academic standard term (and doesn't have the same 'otherness' issues as the phrase 'non-caucasian').

If I am talking specifically about people who are of black descent, then I would use the term black."

Don't all people have a colour.

We find the term people of colour a crass example of political correctness and insulting to everyone.

We seldom comment about the colour of a person but if we have to we prefer to use whatever term they use to describe themselves.

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By *hocolate007Man
over a year ago

london

"Politically Correct - a term for things you personally find ridiculous but that other people seem to agree with?

Apparently some people have felt the need to send me hateful and bile filled messages based on this statement.

In the future, please feel free to write your comments in the forums rather than sending cowardly emails."

im guessing its because they got a bad inpression about you based on most of your comments about the topic. How you feeling now tho

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

When I was a child I think the politically correct term WAS 'coloured'!

I guess the problem with 'black' and 'white' is that a lot of people aren't either black or white - we're a whole plethora of shades in between! And as each generation integrates more between races/cultures as we are doing now - then in a few generations that term also will be obsolete - and we'll have to look around for a new term that doesn't offend! By then most people will be a blend of colours and cultures I'd hope/imagine - and all this race/culture hate will hopefully be long gone!!

Tbh though - the word coloured isn't offensive imho unless it's said in an offensive manner!

If we look for things to offend or anger us, we will always find them! Stop looking! Xxx

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By *risky_MareWoman
over a year ago

...Up on the Downs

Personally I don't find the term "black" in any way offensive. It's a description of their skin colour, nothing more. It's just that certain people seem to equate this with the old slavery regime.

Exactly. My 87 yr old mother uses the term coloured, it's just what was correct when she was young.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"We are all pink in the middle

That's all I have to say

But saying that 'we are all the same' suggests that we all have the same life experiences and opportunities in life.

The fact is that we don't, and erasing peoples experience by trying to pretend that we are all the same culturally is damaging to the less-privileged group.

That's not what I said....

Bottom line, we are all humans, we all deserve to be treated the same regardless of colour or life experience, class, wealth or any other factor.

But the fact is that we are not all treated the same.

So it is damaging to pretend that we are."

Very true, though I hope that one day we will be.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Who gives a rat's arse ? As long as your not being derogatory or racist..calling someone black..brown.. coloured ...is absolutely 100% Fine. Some People just chat shit for the sake of it."

It's called discussion. No one forcing you to participate. . .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

what I'd like to know is why do so many black guys describe themselves as chocolate on their profile yet coloured is offensive?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Seeing as I grew up in Africa, I know you'll assume the worst, but the term 'coloured' is a completely acceptable term to use in that country, and refers to the Cape Coloured community which is predominantly located in the Western Cape province (think Cape Town). The Cape Coloured community actually use the term themselves to describe their origins, before anyone used the apartheid term !

Therefore I still use the term, but then realise I have to correct myself as over in England it is deemed racist or un-pc, whereas in another country it is deemed totally acceptable.

Guess that begs the question; who decides what is racist and what isn't ? Are we as a Western society to dictate to others that a term that is offensive in the UK cannot be used to describe a vast population of Another country, when that population openly use the term to describe themselves ?

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By *obbytupperMan
over a year ago

Menston near Ilkley

It's not so long since the PC brigade were saying we couldn't use the term black, they seem to change their minds every six months now.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Seeing as I grew up in Africa, I know you'll assume the worst, but the term 'coloured' is a completely acceptable term to use in that country, and refers to the Cape Coloured community which is predominantly located in the Western Cape province (think Cape Town). The Cape Coloured community actually use the term themselves to describe their origins, before anyone used the apartheid term !

Therefore I still use the term, but then realise I have to correct myself as over in England it is deemed racist or un-pc, whereas in another country it is deemed totally acceptable.

Wasn't it Suarez who insisted that the word he allegedly used is a bog-standard day to day word back home?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Wasn't it Suarez who insisted that the word he allegedly used is a bog-standard day to day word back home? "

Who's Suarez ?

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By *rinking-in-laCouple
over a year ago

Bristol

He runs a canal down near the middle east.

The Suarez Canal.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Wasn't it Suarez who insisted that the word he allegedly used is a bog-standard day to day word back home?

Who's Suarez ?"

Luis Suarez, the LFC footballer involved in an altercation with Man Utd's black left back. I forget his name but he was no shrinking violet himself.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Wasn't it Suarez who insisted that the word he allegedly used is a bog-standard day to day word back home?

Who's Suarez ?

Luis Suarez, the LFC footballer involved in an altercation with Man Utd's black left back. I forget his name but he was no shrinking violet himself. "

Oh, sorry ! I'm not a football person !

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By *urvymamaWoman
over a year ago

Doncaster

I wish they would just pick a term and stick to it, as it seems to be black is ok one month and the next coloured is the correct terminology, it's like you can't win for losing

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By *rinking-in-laCouple
over a year ago

Bristol

"I wish they would just pick a term and stick to it, as it seems to be black is ok one month and the next coloured is the correct terminology, it's like you can't win for losing "

How about we just use people's names?

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By *urvymamaWoman
over a year ago

Doncaster

"I wish they would just pick a term and stick to it, as it seems to be black is ok one month and the next coloured is the correct terminology, it's like you can't win for losing

How about we just use people's names?"

I generally do, you'd assume otherwise because?

The OP asked a question I gave an answer that shows a possible reason as to why

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By *aneandpaulCouple
over a year ago

cleveleys

Years ago it was racist to call them black people it had to be coloured now its black will stay that way till the political correct lot look at it again Got a friend of many years known as black Mick he even says when he rings someone its black Mick puts his name on football cards bonus ball at the pub as black Mick think mick wants it to stay to being called black Mick will take a lot of room on the bonus ball sheet writing coloured Mick every time

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By *iss_tressWoman
over a year ago

London

"I recall a few years back calling a black guy a 'coloured guy' - not because I was trying to be racist, in fact the opposite. I was trying to use the correct non-offensive terminology.

It was only the barrage of abuse that I got that made me realise my own ignorance as to what was and wasn't acceptable.

So I don't think necessarily there's always malice involved.

A bit like saying "I can't be racist as I'm black" (as if only white people can be racist). "

I have a friend who is an albino. The names he calls himself makes me cringe and it would NEVER cross my mind to use them because he does: likewise with my gay friends.

I said to my friend the other day "I suppose I'd better get my fat arse to the gym". The following night he asked me if I was taking my fat arse to the gym.

I pulled him up about it. What I call myself is one thing, it's not an invitation for others to. If a black person wants to call themself the n word, a word I don't use, that's their choice.

If a disabled person described themselves as a spastic or a gay man a poofter would you then want to use those outdated terminology to every disabled, gay person?!!

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By *iss_tressWoman
over a year ago

London

"I'm Just putting it out there from MY point of view not bothered about being called black or coloured!!!! My kids are erm mixed race.... I call them half caste and that is it .

People can say what they want I can't stop that and I'll say what I want !!!

I have let's say an equal amount of mates of both sides of the fence so no CHIPS on my shoulders

Poor kids. My son-in-law is white, my daughter is expecting twins. I think the term now is duel heritage, it wouldn't cross my mind to devalue them as half caste.

My other half is white and accuses me of not having a sense of humour because I ripped him a new one when he asked me, when we were in the garden, "where's the black man?...Ah, here he is"...picking up the spade!

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By *iss_tressWoman
over a year ago

London

"I'm Just putting it out there from MY point of view not bothered about being called black or coloured!!!! My kids are erm mixed race.... I call them half caste and that is it .

People can say what they want I can't stop that and I'll say what I want !!!

I have let's say an equal amount of mates of both sides of the fence so no CHIPS on my shoulders

Not a nice way to describe anyone "

Exactly!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I suspect it's more about how words or phrases are used than it is about the words and phrases that are used.

Tone of voice, inflection, volume, context, implication are all tools in communicating meaning or intent.

Last year I worked on two historical documentaries about Japan. The people in the fight and battle scenes were almost entirely white.

However when the director needed close ups of faces, he needed actors who were Japanese, at which point he shouted "bring on the asians".

It sounded completely wrong to my ears, offensive and impersonal.

At lunch I asked one of the Japanese actors about his phraseology.

He said "there's 45 of us, he's not going to call us all by name is he, we'd be here all day."

None of them heard it as racist. It would have been very different if he'd shouted out "let's have the yellows on now."

Lots of views and thoughts on this thread, it's a really interesting read.

Just goes to show that racism is most definately not black and white.

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By *iss_tressWoman
over a year ago

London

"I was born in the 60's

Life was good "better" in the 60's

and there were no concerns then of how you classify someone

still remember and love the 70's too and "love thy neighbour" was so funny to watch

guess the people of today thinking they are all so politically correct put a stop to the good ol days"

I was born in the 60s and recall people referring to my parents as sambos, nig nogs and the like.

I asked my dad why he didn't say anything to the rude people. His response, you don't insult someone in their home.

My parents were hurt and confused. They were happyin Jamaica. The Tory government went cap in hand to the colonies begging for help to rebuild the motherland after the war.

They came to help and faced abuse. Aah yes, happy days the 60s.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I grew up in a predominantly white area and experienced so much racism but I learned from a young age that you judge the individual not an entire race of people !

I've always wondered if there will be a day when people can describe a person without mentioning their skin colour or race ..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

In the visible spectrum, white reflects light and is a presence of all colours, but black absorbs light and is an absence of colour. black can be defined as the visual impression experienced when no visible light reaches the eye.

therefore in a nut shell if a black person is black then they can not be coloured as black is not a colour.

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By *alandNitaCouple
over a year ago

Scunthorpe

In the immortal words of Sir Paul.

"We all know that people are the same where ever we go

There is good and bad in ev'ryone,

We learn to live, we learn to give

Each other what we need to survive together alive.

Ebony and ivory live together in perfect harmony "

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