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"My biggest problem with Osborne is.... He just looks like a cunt, a smarmy cunt, like the kid who took his ball in because he couldn't be zico... I get that mini sick popping back into my mouth, every time his little smarmy fat face appears with his gloating smug nasal voice declaring Tory bollocks... Apart from that, his budget was so so
"You wouldn't do him then? Some of the budget is hard, some is good. Backdating housing benefit for 4 weeks only - makes sense. It forces people to take responsibility. I understand the under 21 housing benefit - will be paid if you've worked for previous 6 months. Tax credits - we didn't used to have it did we ? We all survived - I'm trying to suss out what we had before it or did we just cope ? I'm thinking the cost of living was a lot less compared to wages before it was introduced. | |||
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"My biggest problem with Osborne is.... He just looks like a cunt, a smarmy cunt, like the kid who took his ball in because he couldn't be zico... I get that mini sick popping back into my mouth, every time his little smarmy fat face appears with his gloating smug nasal voice declaring Tory bollocks... Apart from that, his budget was so so
You wouldn't do him then?
Some of the budget is hard, some is good.
Backdating housing benefit for 4 weeks only - makes sense. It forces people to take responsibility.
I understand the under 21 housing benefit - will be paid if you've worked for previous 6 months.
Tax credits - we didn't used to have it did we ? We all survived - I'm trying to suss out what we had before it or did we just cope ? I'm thinking the cost of living was a lot less compared to wages before it was introduced."I always thought the TC was introduced to get people back into work , even part time and the government will help top up the wages. I think they then changed the criteria once running, ie how many hours you had to work before you could claim. It suited the Government as although people were only working part time and still needed help from the Government, they were not on the unemployed list. | |||
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"Some of the budget is hard, some is good. Backdating housing benefit for 4 weeks only - makes sense. It forces people to take responsibility. I understand the under 21 housing benefit - will be paid if you've worked for previous 6 months. Tax credits - we didn't used to have it did we ? We all survived - I'm trying to suss out what we had before it or did we just cope ? I'm thinking the cost of living was a lot less compared to wages before it was introduced." Objection, Your Honour! * HB backdating ignores the point that quite often it's the Local Authority that fucks up the decision in the first place, rather than the client having to 'take responsibility. * So if yr 19, and you've got a kid, and you've been in education - are you supposed to drop all that and go work, leave the kid with a nursery? * Tax credits - the point of these is that they subsidise low wages paid by employers. Cut them off and a large number of working poor get shafted. Anything else? | |||
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"My biggest problem with Osborne is.... He just looks like a cunt, a smarmy cunt, like the kid who took his ball in because he couldn't be zico... I get that mini sick popping back into my mouth, every time his little smarmy fat face appears with his gloating smug nasal voice declaring Tory bollocks... " i normally try and rise above such petty trivialities about those elected to 'lead us' but i sort of have to agree with you on him.. | |||
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"Some of the budget is hard, some is good. Backdating housing benefit for 4 weeks only - makes sense. It forces people to take responsibility. I understand the under 21 housing benefit - will be paid if you've worked for previous 6 months. Tax credits - we didn't used to have it did we ? We all survived - I'm trying to suss out what we had before it or did we just cope ? I'm thinking the cost of living was a lot less compared to wages before it was introduced. Objection, Your Honour! * HB backdating ignores the point that quite often it's the Local Authority that fucks up the decision in the first place, rather than the client having to 'take responsibility. * So if yr 19, and you've got a kid, and you've been in education - are you supposed to drop all that and go work, leave the kid with a nursery? * Tax credits - the point of these is that they subsidise low wages paid by employers. Cut them off and a large number of working poor get shafted. Anything else?" I thought HB was already only 4 weeks backpay? I might be owed some money if it's not.  | |||
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"Some of the budget is hard, some is good. Backdating housing benefit for 4 weeks only - makes sense. It forces people to take responsibility. I understand the under 21 housing benefit - will be paid if you've worked for previous 6 months. Tax credits - we didn't used to have it did we ? We all survived - I'm trying to suss out what we had before it or did we just cope ? I'm thinking the cost of living was a lot less compared to wages before it was introduced. Objection, Your Honour! * HB backdating ignores the point that quite often it's the Local Authority that fucks up the decision in the first place, rather than the client having to 'take responsibility. * So if yr 19, and you've got a kid, and you've been in education - are you supposed to drop all that and go work, leave the kid with a nursery? * Tax credits - the point of these is that they subsidise low wages paid by employers. Cut them off and a large number of working poor get shafted. Anything else? I thought HB was already only 4 weeks backpay? I might be owed some money if it's not. "I don't know about England but in NI HB is backpaid to the date of claim, which is fortunate because mine took 14 weeks to sort out leaving us food bank dependent for a few of those weeks. | |||
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"I don't know about England but in NI HB is backpaid to the date of claim, which is fortunate because mine took 14 weeks to sort out leaving us food bank dependent for a few of those weeks." Is exactly the kinda shit I'm talking about | |||
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"I don't know about England but in NI HB is backpaid to the date of claim, which is fortunate because mine took 14 weeks to sort out leaving us food bank dependent for a few of those weeks." Ok, i'll ask the council when they're giving me back my council tax i paid. My son got sanctioned for well over a year and that messed up some stuff. | |||
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"Ok, i'll ask the council when they're giving me back my council tax i paid. My son got sanctioned for well over a year and that messed up some stuff." See, there's the headlines - Budget for working Britain/Britain deserves a wage rise'... And then there's your reality. | |||
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"I don't know about England but in NI HB is backpaid to the date of claim, which is fortunate because mine took 14 weeks to sort out leaving us food bank dependent for a few of those weeks. Ok, i'll ask the council when they're giving me back my council tax i paid. My son got sanctioned for well over a year and that messed up some stuff." how did your son get sanctioned or do you mean sectioned? | |||
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"Well done to all that voted for the vile Tory party you cleaver lot what can I say we all suffer because you voted blue. Pat yourselves on the back because the Tory party played a blinder with the lib dems and made them look foolish. I will admit I voted ukip and I will again in every election from now at least they are straight talking " you're welcome  | |||
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"Well done to all that voted for the vile Tory party you cleaver lot what can I say we all suffer because you voted blue. Pat yourselves on the back because the Tory party played a blinder with the lib dems and made them look foolish. I will admit I voted ukip and I will again in every election from now at least they are straight talking you're welcome "Take yourself off to the fruitcake stall | |||
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"Well done to all that voted for the vile Tory party you cleaver lot what can I say we all suffer because you voted blue. Pat yourselves on the back because the Tory party played a blinder with the lib dems and made them look foolish. I will admit I voted ukip and I will again in every election from now at least they are straight talking you're welcome "Very welcome | |||
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" Tbh they deserve it, NHS will go soon to lol." Yes - but not 'lol' | |||
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"I get the tax credits cut after two kids but does this also apply to unemployed people are they stopping all benefits after two kids?" Tax credits are paid if you are on unemployment for the children. You only recieve money for the adults from income support or other unemployment benefits... Tax credits pay for the children ... So I'd imagine it will cut it on all. | |||
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" Tbh they deserve it, NHS will go soon to lol. Yes - but not 'lol'" Why not the lol? all you can do is laugh about it really. | |||
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"I don't know about England but in NI HB is backpaid to the date of claim, which is fortunate because mine took 14 weeks to sort out leaving us food bank dependent for a few of those weeks. Ok, i'll ask the council when they're giving me back my council tax i paid. My son got sanctioned for well over a year and that messed up some stuff. how did your son get sanctioned or do you mean sectioned?" They wouldn't pay him anything because he'd already done 3 years of training at school and didn't want to go on a job scheme/workfare thing. He was looking for an actual job so they wouldn't pay him anything at all. Not fussed now coz we got through it, and he's got a job coming up soon. Not sure why they can make me pay more taxes and that via him or how that's fair or legal but they did that, i want it back and looks like i might be able to. I work for fuck all as it is. | |||
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"Well done to all that voted for the vile Tory party you cleaver lot what can I say we all suffer because you voted blue. Pat yourselves on the back because the Tory party played a blinder with the lib dems and made them look foolish. I will admit I voted ukip and I will again in every election from now at least they are straight talking you're welcome
Take yourself off to the fruitcake stall"Did someone say cake ? | |||
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"Well done to all that voted for the vile Tory party you cleaver lot what can I say we all suffer because you voted blue. Pat yourselves on the back because the Tory party played a blinder with the lib dems and made them look foolish. I will admit I voted ukip and I will again in every election from now at least they are straight talking you're welcome
Take yourself off to the fruitcake stall"I am happy to buy fruitcake and donate it, see even tories have a heart | |||
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"...at the risk of boring you stupid there's some interesting corollaries to the Budget that seem to throw a light on how our esteemed Chancellor _iews the working classes:- . . Tax Credits and Universal Credit . *From April 2017 will only pay for the first 2 children (exception for multiple births)- Does not look like they will remove money from those already receiving for more than 2 children unless they have a break in claim and have to make a new claim after April 2017. . From April 2017 – families will no longer be eligible for the Family Element if still in receipt of tax credits. The equivalent in Universal Credit, known as first child premium, will also not be available for new claims after April 2017. In Housing Benefit, the family premium will be withdrawn for new claims from April 2016. . . * From April 2016 - Universal Credit work allowances (income they disregard when calculating entitlement) they will be reduce work allowances generally and for single adults and couples without disabilities or children there will not be any work allowances. . . * From April 2016 Tax Credits- Income threshold for tax credits to be reduced from £6,420 to £3,850 per annum. This will reduce the number of people who will qualify for Tax Credit . . * From September 2017 - Universal Credit for families with dependant children - Expect parents with a youngest child aged three, including lone parents, to look for work if they want to claim Universal Credit – will provide 30 hours a week free childcare for 3-4 year olds to allow this to happen. . . Employment and Support Allowance . * From April 2017 - removal of the Work Related Activity Group component from new claims of Employment and Support Allowance (currently £29.05 a week) so claimants will receive the same rate of payment as Job Seekers Allowance unless they are in the support group of ESA. Will not affect existing claims. . . Housing Benefit . * From April 2016 – Backdating of Housing Benefit will be reduced to 4 weeks only * From April 2017 - Removal of automatic entitlement to HB for 18 -21 year olds. Protection will be put in place for the vulnerable……no details yet. * From April 2017 - New youth obligation for 18-21 year olds, must be in work (trainee, apprentice, work placement) or education in order to get benefits. . . * Benefit Cap – Reduction to £23000 in London, £20 000 outside London –Do not state when. . . Housing Costs for mortgages . * From 2018 - Housing costs to cover mortgage interest will be in the form of a loan. . . Amount of Working age benefits to be frozen for 4 years from April 2016 (Statutory payments like Maternity Pay and the disability benefits - PIP, DLA and ESA Support Group will be excluded from the freeze) . . Coming soon to a town near you..." Glad you have put this on because I wasn't sure how it would affect me. I've got 5 kids and was panicking that they would stop my money for my younger 3. Thanks x | |||
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"I get the tax credits cut after two kids but does this also apply to unemployed people are they stopping all benefits after two kids? Tax credits are paid if you are on unemployment for the children. You only recieve money for the adults from income support or other unemployment benefits... Tax credits pay for the children ... So I'd imagine it will cut it on all. " No they aren't - Tax Credits are split in 2: * Working Tax Credit and * Child Tax Credit You don;t need to be working to be in recepit of the latter but your kids must be under 16 and in full time education, training or employment. | |||
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"Some of the budget is hard, some is good. Backdating housing benefit for 4 weeks only - makes sense. It forces people to take responsibility. I understand the under 21 housing benefit - will be paid if you've worked for previous 6 months. Tax credits - we didn't used to have it did we ? We all survived - I'm trying to suss out what we had before it or did we just cope ? I'm thinking the cost of living was a lot less compared to wages before it was introduced. Objection, Your Honour! * HB backdating ignores the point that quite often it's the Local Authority that fucks up the decision in the first place, rather than the client having to 'take responsibility. * So if yr 19, and you've got a kid, and you've been in education - are you supposed to drop all that and go work, leave the kid with a nursery? * Tax credits - the point of these is that they subsidise low wages paid by employers. Cut them off and a large number of working poor get shafted. Anything else?" Tax credits don't just subsidise low pay it turns out that they actually encourage low pay. Employers should be paying a living wage, if they can't afford to pay a living wage then they should not be in business. Tax Credits have, in effect, just become a subsidy for unprofitable and uncompetitive businesses. The sooner it's gone for good the better. | |||
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"Since leaving school at 16 I have never once had a free payout . No tax credits , no nothing . Believe it or not , hard work and a concentious work ethic have held me in good stead . Bought my first home at 21 , now mortgage free , owe nothing . If it weren't for the two failed marriages which cost me a fucking fortune I would be very well off now . But I am so happy with this , my third and final marriage and although we aren't minted we do ok . And I am happy to vote Tory , the party which has done way more to help me than labour , who seem to want to help those who can't , or who wont help themselves . This is the world we live in , everyone wants something for nothing . Entitlement , but don't want to get off their arses to earn it . Don't get me wrong , those unfortunate enough to be disabled deserve help , but the idle scroungers who frequent the tabloids and Jeremy Kyle show can fuck right off as far as I'm concerned . "Are you sure...? a) The 'idle scroungers' are a tiny, hardcore minority blown up by the right-wing press to tar everyone on benefits - it's just a vile stick to beat people with b)houses were affordable when you bought one c) there were greater opportunities for you (don't forget youth unemployment in the UK is the worst it's been for 20 years) d) it's not about entitlement - it's about making things a little fairer/easier for those with less. | |||
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" Tax credits don't just subsidise low pay it turns out that they actually encourage low pay. Employers should be paying a living wage, if they can't afford to pay a living wage then they should not be in business. Tax Credits have, in effect, just become a subsidy for unprofitable and uncompetitive businesses. The sooner it's gone for good the better." Agreed - in an ideal world | |||
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"Since leaving school at 16 I have never once had a free payout . No tax credits , no nothing . Believe it or not , hard work and a concentious work ethic have held me in good stead . Bought my first home at 21 , now mortgage free , owe nothing . If it weren't for the two failed marriages which cost me a fucking fortune I would be very well off now . But I am so happy with this , my third and final marriage and although we aren't minted we do ok . And I am happy to vote Tory , the party which has done way more to help me than labour , who seem to want to help those who can't , or who wont help themselves . This is the world we live in , everyone wants something for nothing . Entitlement , but don't want to get off their arses to earn it . Don't get me wrong , those unfortunate enough to be disabled deserve help , but the idle scroungers who frequent the tabloids and Jeremy Kyle show can fuck right off as far as I'm concerned .
Are you sure...?
a) The 'idle scroungers' are a tiny, hardcore minority blown up by the right-wing press to tar everyone on benefits - it's just a vile stick to beat people with
b)houses were affordable when you bought one
c) there were greater opportunities for you (don't forget youth unemployment in the UK is the worst it's been for 20 years)
d) it's not about entitlement - it's about making things a little fairer/easier for those with less.
"what would you do with a) | |||
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"The budget will personally make us worse off, however, we think it is a step in the right direction. For far too long people have been getting away with the benefits culture, and businesses have been getting away with paying low wages because the tax payers will subsidise their profits by way of tax credits etc. " Proof? Links? Or are you just repeating what you've read in The Daily Fail? I'm trying to get to the facts... C'mon - sock it to me! | |||
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"Since leaving school at 16 I have never once had a free payout . No tax credits , no nothing . Believe it or not , hard work and a concentious work ethic have held me in good stead . Bought my first home at 21 , now mortgage free , owe nothing . If it weren't for the two failed marriages which cost me a fucking fortune I would be very well off now . But I am so happy with this , my third and final marriage and although we aren't minted we do ok . And I am happy to vote Tory , the party which has done way more to help me than labour , who seem to want to help those who can't , or who wont help themselves . This is the world we live in , everyone wants something for nothing . Entitlement , but don't want to get off their arses to earn it . Don't get me wrong , those unfortunate enough to be disabled deserve help , but the idle scroungers who frequent the tabloids and Jeremy Kyle show can fuck right off as far as I'm concerned .
Are you sure...?
a) The 'idle scroungers' are a tiny, hardcore minority blown up by the right-wing press to tar everyone on benefits - it's just a vile stick to beat people with
b)houses were affordable when you bought one
c) there were greater opportunities for you (don't forget youth unemployment in the UK is the worst it's been for 20 years)
d) it's not about entitlement - it's about making things a little fairer/easier for those with less.
what would you do with a)"I don't think a) is a serious problem | |||
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"Since leaving school at 16 I have never once had a free payout . No tax credits , no nothing . Believe it or not , hard work and a concentious work ethic have held me in good stead . Bought my first home at 21 , now mortgage free , owe nothing . If it weren't for the two failed marriages which cost me a fucking fortune I would be very well off now . But I am so happy with this , my third and final marriage and although we aren't minted we do ok . And I am happy to vote Tory , the party which has done way more to help me than labour , who seem to want to help those who can't , or who wont help themselves . This is the world we live in , everyone wants something for nothing . Entitlement , but don't want to get off their arses to earn it . Don't get me wrong , those unfortunate enough to be disabled deserve help , but the idle scroungers who frequent the tabloids and Jeremy Kyle show can fuck right off as far as I'm concerned .
Are you sure...?
a) The 'idle scroungers' are a tiny, hardcore minority blown up by the right-wing press to tar everyone on benefits - it's just a vile stick to beat people with
b)houses were affordable when you bought one
c) there were greater opportunities for you (don't forget youth unemployment in the UK is the worst it's been for 20 years)
d) it's not about entitlement - it's about making things a little fairer/easier for those with less.
what would you do with a)
I don't think a) is a serious problem "I didn't ask that question, I asked what you would do to deal with the non serious problem | |||
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"Since leaving school at 16 I have never once had a free payout . No tax credits , no nothing . Believe it or not , hard work and a concentious work ethic have held me in good stead . Bought my first home at 21 , now mortgage free , owe nothing . If it weren't for the two failed marriages which cost me a fucking fortune I would be very well off now . But I am so happy with this , my third and final marriage and although we aren't minted we do ok . And I am happy to vote Tory , the party which has done way more to help me than labour , who seem to want to help those who can't , or who wont help themselves . This is the world we live in , everyone wants something for nothing . Entitlement , but don't want to get off their arses to earn it . Don't get me wrong , those unfortunate enough to be disabled deserve help , but the idle scroungers who frequent the tabloids and Jeremy Kyle show can fuck right off as far as I'm concerned .
Are you sure...?
a) The 'idle scroungers' are a tiny, hardcore minority blown up by the right-wing press to tar everyone on benefits - it's just a vile stick to beat people with
b)houses were affordable when you bought one
c) there were greater opportunities for you (don't forget youth unemployment in the UK is the worst it's been for 20 years)
d) it's not about entitlement - it's about making things a little fairer/easier for those with less.
what would you do with a)
I don't think a) is a serious problem
I didn't ask that question, I asked what you would do to deal with the non serious problem"Sterilize then so they don't keep breeding more generations of idle scroungers  | |||
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"I just don't get the Tory mantra They keep saying they believe in free markets Then they introduce compulsory market pricing Either free markets work or they don't, if they work we don't need a minimum wage or tax credits. If they don't work then we really need to rethink the whole system!" I think most Tories would probably agree however we have Tax Credits and just removing them with out putting something in place to increase low pay to at least a living wage would cause a lot more suffering. I would guess that, once tax credits are removed and the market rate of pay takes over, we'll start to hear a lot less about either legal minimum or living wages. | |||
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"There's only so far this so called government can push us before we all push back...and there is more of us than them!!" Is there? Most people voted for an austerity package which was at least as tough or even tougher than what George has actually introduced. So where are all these people when it came to voting in the general election? | |||
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"Since leaving school at 16 I have never once had a free payout . No tax credits , no nothing . Believe it or not , hard work and a concentious work ethic have held me in good stead . Bought my first home at 21 , now mortgage free , owe nothing . If it weren't for the two failed marriages which cost me a fucking fortune I would be very well off now . But I am so happy with this , my third and final marriage and although we aren't minted we do ok . And I am happy to vote Tory , the party which has done way more to help me than labour , who seem to want to help those who can't , or who wont help themselves . This is the world we live in , everyone wants something for nothing . Entitlement , but don't want to get off their arses to earn it . Don't get me wrong , those unfortunate enough to be disabled deserve help , but the idle scroungers who frequent the tabloids and Jeremy Kyle show can fuck right off as far as I'm concerned .
Are you sure...?
a) The 'idle scroungers' are a tiny, hardcore minority blown up by the right-wing press to tar everyone on benefits - it's just a vile stick to beat people with
b)houses were affordable when you bought one
c) there were greater opportunities for you (don't forget youth unemployment in the UK is the worst it's been for 20 years)
d) it's not about entitlement - it's about making things a little fairer/easier for those with less.
"The system caters to the idle scroungers , this budget has made it harder for them Having loads of kids when you can't afford to raise them is selfish and unfair to the kids . It's also ridiculous that those people who are better off should have to pay for others stupidity . I had 3 jobs on the go to afford my first home , and got a run down place which needed lots of work done . The welfare state was introduced to help those who couldn't help themselves . It's become a tool to abuse and replace hard work . The Tories have and always will reward those who help themselves . | |||
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"Well done to all that voted for the vile Tory party you cleaver lot what can I say we all suffer because you voted blue. Pat yourselves on the back because the Tory party played a blinder with the lib dems and made them look foolish. I will admit I voted ukip and I will again in every election from now at least they are straight talking " And there speaks the voice of true reason. Out of curiosity, can you tell use all if your pissed of with the Tories for being too right wing or too left wing? It's just that you can never know for sure with UKIP voters which way they are leaning. | |||
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"There's only so far this so called government can push us before we all push back...and there is more of us than them!! Is there? Most people voted for an austerity package which was at least as tough or even tougher than what George has actually introduced. So where are all these people when it came to voting in the general election?" Which 'most people'? | |||
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"The Tories have and always will reward those who help themselves . " I don't see how cutting tax credits is helping those who help themselves For a lot of people on low income they rely on those top up, people will be better off unemployed | |||
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"I get the tax credits cut after two kids but does this also apply to unemployed people are they stopping all benefits after two kids? Tax credits are paid if you are on unemployment for the children. You only recieve money for the adults from income support or other unemployment benefits... Tax credits pay for the children ... So I'd imagine it will cut it on all. " Tax Credits can also be claimed if you are in work. In fact you could claim tax credits and actually get some money back with a salary of up to £60,000 when it was at its maximum level. Totally stupid paying people on top tax rate tax credits but that's the way it worked. | |||
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"The Tories have and always will reward those who help themselves . I don't see how cutting tax credits is helping those who help themselves For a lot of people on low income they rely on those top up, people will be better off unemployed " Not if they put more hours in , work hard , get promoted and earn the rewards for their efforts . | |||
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...but still...happy days...I'm gonna get £360 quid back from the government...yippeee hooo  My! isn't that a lovely shiny red cherry we've placed lovingly on the top of this steaming pile of shit. Look at the cherry everyone.. what a lovely cherry
The right wing is fundamentally dead. It is dead because it cannot save us from extinction (see A) and it is morally corrupt (see B). But still... nice budget. | |||
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" The system caters to the idle scroungers , this budget has made it harder for them Having loads of kids when you can't afford to raise them is selfish and unfair to the kids . It's also ridiculous that those people who are better off should have to pay for others stupidity . I had 3 jobs on the go to afford my first home , and got a run down place which needed lots of work done . The welfare state was introduced to help those who couldn't help themselves . It's become a tool to abuse and replace hard work . The Tories have and always will reward those who help themselves . " There is far too much emphasis given in the media and by people in general to the "idle scroungers" living on Benefits Street. It really is a tiny problem that accounts for a very minor percentage of the welfare expenditure. While the mere mention of it causes a huge emotional reaction, it has little economic impact on our country. Can we not concentrate on more important issues? | |||
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"The Tories have and always will reward those who help themselves . I don't see how cutting tax credits is helping those who help themselves For a lot of people on low income they rely on those top up, people will be better off unemployed Not if they put more hours in , work hard , get promoted and earn the rewards for their efforts ." What about single parents? If your already working full time how do you put more hours in and look after your kids I do get where your coming from but everything isnt black and white everybodies situation is different | |||
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"I don't know if corolories is a typo or a real word, so I'm probably not qualified to spout off on the intricacies of tax policy but didnt we have this evil tory stuff four years ago? didnt you all end up looking stupid with egg on your face? been a decent government I recon. I liked the minimum wage one because it made ed balls look even more of a tit "You are welcome to your opinion. *files in the round drawer marked'BIN'* | |||
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"Since leaving school at 16 I have never once had a free payout . No tax credits , no nothing . Believe it or not , hard work and a concentious work ethic have held me in good stead . Bought my first home at 21 , now mortgage free , owe nothing . If it weren't for the two failed marriages which cost me a fucking fortune I would be very well off now . But I am so happy with this , my third and final marriage and although we aren't minted we do ok . And I am happy to vote Tory , the party which has done way more to help me than labour , who seem to want to help those who can't , or who wont help themselves . This is the world we live in , everyone wants something for nothing . Entitlement , but don't want to get off their arses to earn it . Don't get me wrong , those unfortunate enough to be disabled deserve help , but the idle scroungers who frequent the tabloids and Jeremy Kyle show can fuck right off as far as I'm concerned .
Are you sure...?
a) The 'idle scroungers' are a tiny, hardcore minority blown up by the right-wing press to tar everyone on benefits - it's just a vile stick to beat people with
b)houses were affordable when you bought one
c) there were greater opportunities for you (don't forget youth unemployment in the UK is the worst it's been for 20 years)
d) it's not about entitlement - it's about making things a little fairer/easier for those with less.
what would you do with a)
I don't think a) is a serious problem
I didn't ask that question, I asked what you would do to deal with the non serious problem"any idea yet what you would do with the hard core minority | |||
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" What about single parents? If your already working full time how do you put more hours in and look after your kids I do get where your coming from but everything isnt black and white everybodies situation is different " This is not personal and I have no wish whatsoever to see children in poverty. But what about single people? | |||
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" Tax credits don't just subsidise low pay it turns out that they actually encourage low pay. Employers should be paying a living wage, if they can't afford to pay a living wage then they should not be in business. Tax Credits have, in effect, just become a subsidy for unprofitable and uncompetitive businesses. The sooner it's gone for good the better. Agreed - in an ideal world" We won't make things better if we don't change them. I think the introduction of a living minimum wage and increasing tax free earnings at the same time as reducing Tax Credits is the best way out of the current ridiculous situation. The only other thing I would also do is up the National Insurance lower start point to be the same as the tax free amount. People on low pay should not be paying any form of direct taxation. | |||
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" What about single parents? If your already working full time how do you put more hours in and look after your kids I do get where your coming from but everything isnt black and white everybodies situation is different This is not personal and I have no wish whatsoever to see children in poverty. But what about single people?" You mean single people with no children? If so my comment was towards the tax credit cuts where they are now only going to pay for the first two children so this wouldn't apply to those I have no idea how tax credits work to be honest as I don't get them, can you even claim them if you have no kids? | |||
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"Agreed - in an ideal world We won't make things better if we don't change them. I think the introduction of a living minimum wage and increasing tax free earnings at the same time as reducing Tax Credits is the best way out of the current ridiculous situation. The only other thing I would also do is up the National Insurance lower start point to be the same as the tax free amount. People on low pay should not be paying any form of direct taxation." It's interesting - we've had a few chats around economic subjects - you're just as utopian, if in a different direction. From 'is' to 'ought' - that's the tricky bit. | |||
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" What about single parents? If your already working full time how do you put more hours in and look after your kids I do get where your coming from but everything isnt black and white everybodies situation is different This is not personal and I have no wish whatsoever to see children in poverty. But what about single people? You mean single people with no children? If so my comment was towards the tax credit cuts where they are now only going to pay for the first two children so this wouldn't apply to those I have no idea how tax credits work to be honest as I don't get them, can you even claim them if you have no kids?" Yes. I mean folk without children. Please don't take this the wrong way. Tax credits, child benefit, education ... I do believe in a fair society (and I do appreciate that contributing to these things makes the society I live in a better place), but I get the impression sometimes that parents see these as entitlements. Most parents do make the choice to have children. Is it right for them to expect financial aid? | |||
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"what would you do with a) I don't think a) is a serious problem I didn't ask that question, I asked what you would do to deal with the non serious problem any idea yet what you would do with the hard core minority" I'd focus on more pressing matters | |||
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"A) We are in the process of permanently fucking over the planet's ecology to such a point that life on Earth might be threatened and nobody's doing anything about it. B) We are in the process of raping the Earth's resources and feeding off the poverty of others in order to live the life of riley and everyone seems happy with that... it seems to complement people's ideas of democracy and liberty
...but still...happy days...I'm gonna get £360 quid back from the government...yippeee hooo My! isn't that a lovely shiny red cherry we've placed lovingly on the top of this steaming pile of shit. Look at the cherry everyone.. what a lovely cherry
The right wing is fundamentally dead. It is dead because it cannot save us from extinction (see A) and it is morally corrupt (see B). But still... nice budget."Ah , the tree hugging post
Love it | |||
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"what would you do with a) I don't think a) is a serious problem I didn't ask that question, I asked what you would do to deal with the non serious problem any idea yet what you would do with the hard core minority I'd focus on more pressing matters" so you have no answer | |||
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"I get the tax credits cut after two kids but does this also apply to unemployed people are they stopping all benefits after two kids? Tax credits are paid if you are on unemployment for the children. You only recieve money for the adults from income support or other unemployment benefits... Tax credits pay for the children ... So I'd imagine it will cut it on all. Tax Credits can also be claimed if you are in work. In fact you could claim tax credits and actually get some money back with a salary of up to £60,000 when it was at its maximum level. " Really? Are you sure of that figure? It seems high so I went to the TC calculator , put in 55000 wages and it came up with bugger off you earn too much | |||
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"Ah , the tree hugging post
Love it "I'm gonna ask the bouncers to ask you to leave soon. We're trying to find facts, not repeat stale opinions that don;t require thinking. Play nice in my thread or buzz off. | |||
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"Since leaving school at 16 I have never once had a free payout . No tax credits , no nothing . Believe it or not , hard work and a concentious work ethic have held me in good stead . Bought my first home at 21 , now mortgage free , owe nothing . If it weren't for the two failed marriages which cost me a fucking fortune I would be very well off now . But I am so happy with this , my third and final marriage and although we aren't minted we do ok . And I am happy to vote Tory , the party which has done way more to help me than labour , who seem to want to help those who can't , or who wont help themselves . This is the world we live in , everyone wants something for nothing . Entitlement , but don't want to get off their arses to earn it . Don't get me wrong , those unfortunate enough to be disabled deserve help , but the idle scroungers who frequent the tabloids and Jeremy Kyle show can fuck right off as far as I'm concerned .
Are you sure...?
a) The 'idle scroungers' are a tiny, hardcore minority blown up by the right-wing press to tar everyone on benefits - it's just a vile stick to beat people with
b)houses were affordable when you bought one
c) there were greater opportunities for you (don't forget youth unemployment in the UK is the worst it's been for 20 years)
d) it's not about entitlement - it's about making things a little fairer/easier for those with less.
what would you do with a)
I don't think a) is a serious problem "In terms of actual numbers it may not be all that serious (a but like Tax evasion also) but both are serious problems because they both totally undermine peoples belief, trust and faith in the fairness of the system. The system not only MUST be fair but must also be SEEN to be fair, especially by those who are paying for it. | |||
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"A) We are in the process of permanently fucking over the planet's ecology to such a point that life on Earth might be threatened and nobody's doing anything about it. B) We are in the process of raping the Earth's resources and feeding off the poverty of others in order to live the life of riley and everyone seems happy with that... it seems to complement people's ideas of democracy and liberty
...but still...happy days...I'm gonna get £360 quid back from the government...yippeee hooo My! isn't that a lovely shiny red cherry we've placed lovingly on the top of this steaming pile of shit. Look at the cherry everyone.. what a lovely cherry
The right wing is fundamentally dead. It is dead because it cannot save us from extinction (see A) and it is morally corrupt (see B). But still... nice budget.
Ah , the tree hugging post
Love it "That's only because you want to exploit us both... you capitalist peeeeegs lol | |||
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"what would you do with a) I don't think a) is a serious problem I didn't ask that question, I asked what you would do to deal with the non serious problem any idea yet what you would do with the hard core minority I'd focus on more pressing matters so you have no answer" I've worked with the kid of families you're talking about, as a case worker. I can tell you, as a fact, that if I spent the majority of my time clearing up after the feckless 1% rather than help the 99% who really need it, I'd be wasting my precious time. What would you do with 'them'? | |||
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" In terms of actual numbers it may not be all that serious (a but like Tax evasion also) but both are serious problems because they both totally undermine peoples belief, trust and faith in the fairness of the system. The system not only MUST be fair but must also be SEEN to be fair, especially by those who are paying for it." yes deal with both | |||
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"what would you do with a) I don't think a) is a serious problem I didn't ask that question, I asked what you would do to deal with the non serious problem any idea yet what you would do with the hard core minority I'd focus on more pressing matters so you have no answer I've worked with the kid of families you're talking about, as a case worker. I can tell you, as a fact, that if I spent the majority of my time clearing up after the feckless 1% rather than help the 99% who really need it, I'd be wasting my precious time. What would you do with 'them'?" still nothing then ? | |||
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"Since leaving school at 16 I have never once had a free payout . No tax credits , no nothing . Believe it or not , hard work and a concentious work ethic have held me in good stead . Bought my first home at 21 , now mortgage free , owe nothing . If it weren't for the two failed marriages which cost me a fucking fortune I would be very well off now . But I am so happy with this , my third and final marriage and although we aren't minted we do ok . And I am happy to vote Tory , the party which has done way more to help me than labour , who seem to want to help those who can't , or who wont help themselves . This is the world we live in , everyone wants something for nothing . Entitlement , but don't want to get off their arses to earn it . Don't get me wrong , those unfortunate enough to be disabled deserve help , but the idle scroungers who frequent the tabloids and Jeremy Kyle show can fuck right off as far as I'm concerned .
Are you sure...?
a) The 'idle scroungers' are a tiny, hardcore minority blown up by the right-wing press to tar everyone on benefits - it's just a vile stick to beat people with
b)houses were affordable when you bought one
c) there were greater opportunities for you (don't forget youth unemployment in the UK is the worst it's been for 20 years)
d) it's not about entitlement - it's about making things a little fairer/easier for those with less.
what would you do with a)
I don't think a) is a serious problem
In terms of actual numbers it may not be all that serious (a but like Tax evasion also) but both are serious problems because they both totally undermine peoples belief, trust and faith in the fairness of the system.
The system not only MUST be fair but must also be SEEN to be fair, especially by those who are paying for it."Ok - so which is more damaging to the UK, do you think... * tax evasion * the work-shy ? Seriously? I see more headline devoted the Jeremy Kyle style demonisation of the poor than I do shouting for banker's heads on spikes... | |||
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"There's only so far this so called government can push us before we all push back...and there is more of us than them!! Is there? Most people voted for an austerity package which was at least as tough or even tougher than what George has actually introduced. So where are all these people when it came to voting in the general election? Which 'most people'?" the 36% who voted Conservative the 8% who voted LibDem the 12% who voted UKIP | |||
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"Ah , the tree hugging post
Love it
I'm gonna ask the bouncers to ask you to leave soon.
We're trying to find facts, not repeat stale opinions that don;t require thinking.
Play nice in my thread or buzz off. "Maybe take your own advice | |||
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"Ah , the tree hugging post
Love it
I'm gonna ask the bouncers to ask you to leave soon.
We're trying to find facts, not repeat stale opinions that don;t require thinking.
Play nice in my thread or buzz off. "I gave you facts and you stomped your feet and acted like a kid. dont try and bully people because they dont agree with you. | |||
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"what would you do with a) I don't think a) is a serious problem I didn't ask that question, I asked what you would do to deal with the non serious problem any idea yet what you would do with the hard core minority I'd focus on more pressing matters so you have no answer I've worked with the kid of families you're talking about, as a case worker. I can tell you, as a fact, that if I spent the majority of my time clearing up after the feckless 1% rather than help the 99% who really need it, I'd be wasting my precious time. What would you do with 'them'? still nothing then ?" I told you - I've worked at the metaphorical coal-face with families like this. There is very little to be done... and more pressing things the need to be done. You can work yourself up in to a lather all you like but it doesn't change the reality that they are a tiny minority and there are far bigger problems... I'd rather get to grips with youth unemployment and shoddy housing tbh | |||
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"The Tories have and always will reward those who help themselves . I don't see how cutting tax credits is helping those who help themselves For a lot of people on low income they rely on those top up, people will be better off unemployed " If they were just cutting Tax Credits I would agree but they are also increasing the Tax Free allowance and the minimum wage also, both of which will help the low paid. | |||
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"what would you do with a) I don't think a) is a serious problem I didn't ask that question, I asked what you would do to deal with the non serious problem any idea yet what you would do with the hard core minority I'd focus on more pressing matters so you have no answer I've worked with the kid of families you're talking about, as a case worker. I can tell you, as a fact, that if I spent the majority of my time clearing up after the feckless 1% rather than help the 99% who really need it, I'd be wasting my precious time. What would you do with 'them'? still nothing then ? I told you - I've worked at the metaphorical coal-face with families like this. There is very little to be done... and more pressing things the need to be done. You can work yourself up in to a lather all you like but it doesn't change the reality that they are a tiny minority and there are far bigger problems... I'd rather get to grips with youth unemployment and shoddy housing tbh" so there is very little can be done or you have no solution...... thank you | |||
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" What about single parents? If your already working full time how do you put more hours in and look after your kids I do get where your coming from but everything isnt black and white everybodies situation is different This is not personal and I have no wish whatsoever to see children in poverty. But what about single people? You mean single people with no children? If so my comment was towards the tax credit cuts where they are now only going to pay for the first two children so this wouldn't apply to those I have no idea how tax credits work to be honest as I don't get them, can you even claim them if you have no kids? Yes. I mean folk without children. Please don't take this the wrong way. Tax credits, child benefit, education ... I do believe in a fair society (and I do appreciate that contributing to these things makes the society I live in a better place), but I get the impression sometimes that parents see these as entitlements. Most parents do make the choice to have children. Is it right for them to expect financial aid?" I don't know its depends I have never claimed tax credits because I earn to much, when I was married our join income was to much to qualify my husband left me for another woman, I was left alone with three kids, now I've always had a better paid job than him so when he left I was OK financially and still didn't qualify for tax credits My story isnt isolated many people with kids marriages break down and many of them people are on low income, how would they manage without tax credits? Yes lots choose to have kids but no one knows what the future holds, peoples cercumstances change | |||
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"Ah , the tree hugging post
Love it
I'm gonna ask the bouncers to ask you to leave soon.
We're trying to find facts, not repeat stale opinions that don;t require thinking.
Play nice in my thread or buzz off.
I gave you facts and you stomped your feet and acted like a kid. dont try and bully people because they dont agree with you. ""I don't know if corolories is a typo or a real word, so I'm probably not qualified to spout off on the intricacies of tax policy but didnt we have this evil tory stuff four years ago? didnt you all end up looking stupid with egg on your face?" ^ You wrote... I'm not going to start a battle of wits with an unarmed man. | |||
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"what would you do with a) I don't think a) is a serious problem I didn't ask that question, I asked what you would do to deal with the non serious problem any idea yet what you would do with the hard core minority I'd focus on more pressing matters so you have no answer" Personally, I would make it much harder to purposely cheat the benefit system by investigating PROPERLY those who are suspected of doing so. I wouldn't cut benefits from the people that need it when they can actually prove that they are actively seeking work, an arbitrary time limit on JSA doesn't do a genuine claiment any favours. | |||
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"A) We are in the process of permanently fucking over the planet's ecology to such a point that life on Earth might be threatened and nobody's doing anything about it. B) We are in the process of raping the Earth's resources and feeding off the poverty of others in order to live the life of riley and everyone seems happy with that... it seems to complement people's ideas of democracy and liberty
...but still...happy days...I'm gonna get £360 quid back from the government...yippeee hooo My! isn't that a lovely shiny red cherry we've placed lovingly on the top of this steaming pile of shit. Look at the cherry everyone.. what a lovely cherry
The right wing is fundamentally dead. It is dead because it cannot save us from extinction (see A) and it is morally corrupt (see B). But still... nice budget.
Ah , the tree hugging post
Love it
That's only because you want to exploit us both... you capitalist peeeeegs lol "Oh for sure we want to exploit you both , but perhaps in a way which may involve the removing of clothes rather than benefits  | |||
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"Since leaving school at 16 I have never once had a free payout . No tax credits , no nothing . Believe it or not , hard work and a concentious work ethic have held me in good stead . Bought my first home at 21 , now mortgage free , owe nothing . If it weren't for the two failed marriages which cost me a fucking fortune I would be very well off now . But I am so happy with this , my third and final marriage and although we aren't minted we do ok . And I am happy to vote Tory , the party which has done way more to help me than labour , who seem to want to help those who can't , or who wont help themselves . This is the world we live in , everyone wants something for nothing . Entitlement , but don't want to get off their arses to earn it . Don't get me wrong , those unfortunate enough to be disabled deserve help , but the idle scroungers who frequent the tabloids and Jeremy Kyle show can fuck right off as far as I'm concerned .
Are you sure...?
a) The 'idle scroungers' are a tiny, hardcore minority blown up by the right-wing press to tar everyone on benefits - it's just a vile stick to beat people with
b)houses were affordable when you bought one
c) there were greater opportunities for you (don't forget youth unemployment in the UK is the worst it's been for 20 years)
d) it's not about entitlement - it's about making things a little fairer/easier for those with less.
what would you do with a)
I don't think a) is a serious problem
In terms of actual numbers it may not be all that serious (a but like Tax evasion also) but both are serious problems because they both totally undermine peoples belief, trust and faith in the fairness of the system.
The system not only MUST be fair but must also be SEEN to be fair, especially by those who are paying for it."So why shaft the honest ones because of a minority of layabouts? | |||
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" The system caters to the idle scroungers , this budget has made it harder for them Having loads of kids when you can't afford to raise them is selfish and unfair to the kids . It's also ridiculous that those people who are better off should have to pay for others stupidity . I had 3 jobs on the go to afford my first home , and got a run down place which needed lots of work done . The welfare state was introduced to help those who couldn't help themselves . It's become a tool to abuse and replace hard work . The Tories have and always will reward those who help themselves . There is far too much emphasis given in the media and by people in general to the "idle scroungers" living on Benefits Street. It really is a tiny problem that accounts for a very minor percentage of the welfare expenditure. While the mere mention of it causes a huge emotional reaction, it has little economic impact on our country. Can we not concentrate on more important issues?" Welfare scroungers (like tax evaders) are not as big a problem as we all seem to think but they both are problems that need to be addressed if we want people to have confidence in the system. For that reason alone they both are very serious problems. | |||
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"Ah , the tree hugging post
Love it
I'm gonna ask the bouncers to ask you to leave soon.
We're trying to find facts, not repeat stale opinions that don;t require thinking.
Play nice in my thread or buzz off. "The opinions you keep repeating are equally as stale as anyone's . As for it being ' your thread ' , at the risk of sounding stale , I repeat - entitlement is a very unpleasant trait in any form . And relax..... | |||
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"I don't know if corolories is a typo or a real word, so I'm probably not qualified to spout off on the intricacies of tax policy but didnt we have this evil tory stuff four years ago? didnt you all end up looking stupid with egg on your face? been a decent government I recon. I liked the minimum wage one because it made ed balls look even more of a tit
You are welcome to your opinion.
*files in the round drawer marked'BIN'*"Maybe you should take it out of the bin and pay more attention to it. Ignoring the critique of those who don't agree with you is never going to get you anywhere. That was and is Labours biggest problem and the reason why it lost the election. | |||
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"Original point of this thread was to examine what lies beneath the headline - not for people to come bashing 'benefit scroungers'. Read the original post, think and learn... " I'm looking for light, not heat | |||
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" I don't know its depends I have never claimed tax credits because I earn to much, when I was married our join income was to much to qualify my husband left me for another woman, I was left alone with three kids, now I've always had a better paid job than him so when he left I was OK financially and still didn't qualify for tax credits My story isnt isolated many people with kids marriages break down and many of them people are on low income, how would they manage without tax credits? Yes lots choose to have kids but no one knows what the future holds, peoples cercumstances change " Of course people's circumstances change and that is why we have a safety net (however safe that may be). Though I have no children myself, I do have relatives with children. In my (fascist?) _iew, if you choose to have them, you should not expect financial assistance in raising them unless you are in need of assistance. It is an emotive subject but I do wonder why that is. | |||
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"Original point of this thread was to examine what lies beneath the headline - not for people to come bashing 'benefit scroungers'. Read the original post, think and learn... " Yes sir ...... Mm mm.... Read it , Thought about it , didn't learn anything .... Bored now | |||
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"I don't know if corolories is a typo or a real word, so I'm probably not qualified to spout off on the intricacies of tax policy but didnt we have this evil tory stuff four years ago? didnt you all end up looking stupid with egg on your face? been a decent government I recon. I liked the minimum wage one because it made ed balls look even more of a tit
You are welcome to your opinion.
*files in the round drawer marked'BIN'*
Maybe you should take it out of the bin and pay more attention to it. Ignoring the critique of those who don't agree with you is never going to get you anywhere.
That was and is Labours biggest problem and the reason why it lost the election."'k, as you're a decent, well-thought out chap... let's have a closer look... * corollaries is a real word. * He's probably not qualfies to talk about the *benefits* system, not the tax code * What evil Tory stuff 4 yrs ago? * 'Minimum wage one' - does he mean the minimum 'living' wage, 'cos that's what Obbo was talking about yesterday? As well you know this is non-binding. You might as well say a unicorn for every home! | |||
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"I get the tax credits cut after two kids but does this also apply to unemployed people are they stopping all benefits after two kids? Tax credits are paid if you are on unemployment for the children. You only recieve money for the adults from income support or other unemployment benefits... Tax credits pay for the children ... So I'd imagine it will cut it on all. Tax Credits can also be claimed if you are in work. In fact you could claim tax credits and actually get some money back with a salary of up to £60,000 when it was at its maximum level. Really? Are you sure of that figure? It seems high so I went to the TC calculator , put in 55000 wages and it came up with bugger off you earn too much" It's not that high now but it was back in about 2006 (or some time round about then). | |||
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"Original point of this thread was to examine what lies beneath the headline - not for people to come bashing 'benefit scroungers'. Read the original post, think and learn... Yes sir ...... Mm mm.... Read it , Thought about it , didn't learn anything .... Bored now "That's a shame because several people who were worrying about their situations have found the info useful | |||
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"Original point of this thread was to examine what lies beneath the headline - not for people to come bashing 'benefit scroungers'. Read the original post, think and learn... I'm looking for light, not heat" OP. I am afraid that threads have a life of their own and naturally digress as people express their opinions and contribute to the debate. You cannot keep the debate to a narrow track no matter how you try. It would be very boring if you could. And I imagine most people on this thread are quite able to think and learn without any encouragement. They are contributing out of free will. | |||
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"Since leaving school at 16 I have never once had a free payout . No tax credits , no nothing . Believe it or not , hard work and a concentious work ethic have held me in good stead . Bought my first home at 21 , now mortgage free , owe nothing . If it weren't for the two failed marriages which cost me a fucking fortune I would be very well off now . But I am so happy with this , my third and final marriage and although we aren't minted we do ok . And I am happy to vote Tory , the party which has done way more to help me than labour , who seem to want to help those who can't , or who wont help themselves . This is the world we live in , everyone wants something for nothing . Entitlement , but don't want to get off their arses to earn it . Don't get me wrong , those unfortunate enough to be disabled deserve help , but the idle scroungers who frequent the tabloids and Jeremy Kyle show can fuck right off as far as I'm concerned .
Are you sure...?
a) The 'idle scroungers' are a tiny, hardcore minority blown up by the right-wing press to tar everyone on benefits - it's just a vile stick to beat people with
b)houses were affordable when you bought one
c) there were greater opportunities for you (don't forget youth unemployment in the UK is the worst it's been for 20 years)
d) it's not about entitlement - it's about making things a little fairer/easier for those with less.
what would you do with a)
I don't think a) is a serious problem
In terms of actual numbers it may not be all that serious (a but like Tax evasion also) but both are serious problems because they both totally undermine peoples belief, trust and faith in the fairness of the system.
The system not only MUST be fair but must also be SEEN to be fair, especially by those who are paying for it.
Ok - so which is more damaging to the UK, do you think...
* tax evasion
* the work-shy
?
Seriously?
I see more headline devoted the Jeremy Kyle style demonisation of the poor than I do shouting for banker's heads on spikes..."I think they are both equally damaging in their own ways. That's why this government is and the coalition before had taken action against both groups. | |||
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" What about single parents? If your already working full time how do you put more hours in and look after your kids I do get where your coming from but everything isnt black and white everybodies situation is different This is not personal and I have no wish whatsoever to see children in poverty. But what about single people? You mean single people with no children? If so my comment was towards the tax credit cuts where they are now only going to pay for the first two children so this wouldn't apply to those I have no idea how tax credits work to be honest as I don't get them, can you even claim them if you have no kids? Yes. I mean folk without children. Please don't take this the wrong way. Tax credits, child benefit, education ... I do believe in a fair society (and I do appreciate that contributing to these things makes the society I live in a better place), but I get the impression sometimes that parents see these as entitlements. Most parents do make the choice to have children. Is it right for them to expect financial aid? I don't know its depends I have never claimed tax credits because I earn to much, when I was married our join income was to much to qualify my husband left me for another woman, I was left alone with three kids, now I've always had a better paid job than him so when he left I was OK financially and still didn't qualify for tax credits My story isnt isolated many people with kids marriages break down and many of them people are on low income, how would they manage without tax credits? Yes lots choose to have kids but no one knows what the future holds, peoples cercumstances change " This is like me. Me and my ex were together 13 years and had 5 kids and we worked,so we could support the children ourselves.Now we have split up and I'm now living on my own with them and had to claim benefits. But we payed our taxes for years so I think it's ok. Can't wait till my youngest starts nursery in September and I can get back to work as I don't want to be on benefits long term x | |||
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"Original point of this thread was to examine what lies beneath the headline - not for people to come bashing 'benefit scroungers'. Read the original post, think and learn... I'm looking for light, not heat OP. I am afraid that threads have a life of their own and naturally digress as people express their opinions and contribute to the debate. You cannot keep the debate to a narrow track no matter how you try. It would be very boring if you could. And I imagine most people on this thread are quite able to think and learn without any encouragement. They are contributing out of free will." This is true. Doesn't make their 'opinions' valid tho... Looking for facts, not opinions... Remember? | |||
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"Ok - so which is more damaging to the UK, do you think... * tax evasion * the work-shy ? Seriously? I see more headline devoted the Jeremy Kyle style demonisation of the poor than I do shouting for banker's heads on spikes... I think they are both equally damaging in their own ways. That's why this government is and the coalition before had taken action against both groups." Pfft! C'mon! Tax evasion and avoidance costs the country more | |||
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"I get the tax credits cut after two kids but does this also apply to unemployed people are they stopping all benefits after two kids? Tax credits are paid if you are on unemployment for the children. You only recieve money for the adults from income support or other unemployment benefits... Tax credits pay for the children ... So I'd imagine it will cut it on all. Tax Credits can also be claimed if you are in work. In fact you could claim tax credits and actually get some money back with a salary of up to £60,000 when it was at its maximum level. Really? Are you sure of that figure? It seems high so I went to the TC calculator , put in 55000 wages and it came up with bugger off you earn too much It's not that high now but it was back in about 2006 (or some time round about then)." That seems a huge amount considering the threshold to whether you will get full TC has just been halved from around 6000 earnings. | |||
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"Original point of this thread was to examine what lies beneath the headline - not for people to come bashing 'benefit scroungers'. Read the original post, think and learn... I'm looking for light, not heat OP. I am afraid that threads have a life of their own and naturally digress as people express their opinions and contribute to the debate. You cannot keep the debate to a narrow track no matter how you try. It would be very boring if you could. And I imagine most people on this thread are quite able to think and learn without any encouragement. They are contributing out of free will. This is true. Doesn't make their 'opinions' valid tho... Looking for facts, not opinions... Remember? " I think that in the world of politics, much is opinion rather than fact. And no, I find remembering difficult. What did I just say? Damn. About 4 'o' clock, I think. Cup of tea? | |||
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"Since leaving school at 16 I have never once had a free payout . No tax credits , no nothing . Believe it or not , hard work and a concentious work ethic have held me in good stead . Bought my first home at 21 , now mortgage free , owe nothing . If it weren't for the two failed marriages which cost me a fucking fortune I would be very well off now . But I am so happy with this , my third and final marriage and although we aren't minted we do ok . And I am happy to vote Tory , the party which has done way more to help me than labour , who seem to want to help those who can't , or who wont help themselves . This is the world we live in , everyone wants something for nothing . Entitlement , but don't want to get off their arses to earn it . Don't get me wrong , those unfortunate enough to be disabled deserve help , but the idle scroungers who frequent the tabloids and Jeremy Kyle show can fuck right off as far as I'm concerned .
Are you sure...?
a) The 'idle scroungers' are a tiny, hardcore minority blown up by the right-wing press to tar everyone on benefits - it's just a vile stick to beat people with
b)houses were affordable when you bought one
c) there were greater opportunities for you (don't forget youth unemployment in the UK is the worst it's been for 20 years)
d) it's not about entitlement - it's about making things a little fairer/easier for those with less.
what would you do with a)
I don't think a) is a serious problem
In terms of actual numbers it may not be all that serious (a but like Tax evasion also) but both are serious problems because they both totally undermine peoples belief, trust and faith in the fairness of the system.
The system not only MUST be fair but must also be SEEN to be fair, especially by those who are paying for it.
So why shaft the honest ones because of a minority of layabouts?"It's not about shafting anyone. It's about moving away from a culture of low pay with high welfare dependency and moving towards a culture of high pay and low welfare dependency. By itself, just cutting Tax Credit would be an attack on the poor but with the increase in tax free allowance and the minimum wage increasing to £9 per hour by 2020 it's not. | |||
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"Original point of this thread was to examine what lies beneath the headline - not for people to come bashing 'benefit scroungers'. Read the original post, think and learn... " Come on. You can't seriously think you can start a thread like this and not have people make the sort of comments many have made. 'Evil Tories', 'Benefit cheats' etc. By all means say that's not want you want to talk about on the thread but leave it to those making posts to say what they want. People will judge for themselves who is making the sound and reasonable posts and who is just repeating sound bites. | |||
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"The system not only MUST be fair but must also be SEEN to be fair, especially by those who are paying for it. It's not about shafting anyone. It's about moving away from a culture of low pay with high welfare dependency and moving towards a culture of high pay and low welfare dependency." I agree with both of these statements. However, the raw fact is that the system is not fair to those who are paying the biggest price for it i.e. the starving hard working poor of the third world. These people work loads harder than most people in the west and often only to earn $1 a day. We pretend they are nothing to do with us, that our economy is ours alone to improve. When without them our economy would collapse... and if they unionised and insisted upon higher wages our way of life would be unaffordable. We talk about ourselves as if we were the high minded progressive voice of the world. And yet we are simultaneously the driving engine of ecological and humanitarian disaster. The amazing Phillip Glass film Powaqqatsi shows us for what we are... po.waq.qa.tsi (from the Hopi language powaq sorcerer + qatsi life) n., an entity, a way of life, that consumes the life forces of other beings in order to further its own life ...our poor don't live in the UK, we've externalised them. | |||
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"HMRC admits to tax evasion of £4.1 billion and claims that avoidance schemes subject to scrutiny account for £3.1 billion The total cost of all benefits for 2013-14 is about £164 billion. Around £1.2 billion or 0.7 per cent of the total is attributed to fraud If the above figures are true, it isn't benefit fraud that is the biggest problem." I don't think the tax avoidance figure is relevant. Tax avoidance, however aggressive, is similar to people claiming benefits that they are entitled to but do not actually need. Unless you can include that figure to we should leave out tax avoidance. What would also be useful in what percentage 4.1bn is of the total tax take. But either way I still hold by the statement that I made. Neither benefits cheats or tax evaders are a significant amount in terms of the actual money involved but they are both very important in the harm they do to peoples belief in the fairness of the system. They are both criminal offences and they both should be tackled, even if it cost more than it saved. | |||
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" But either way I still hold by the statement that I made. Neither benefits cheats or tax evaders are a significant amount in terms of the actual money involved but they are both very important in the harm they do to peoples belief in the fairness of the system. They are both criminal offences and they both should be tackled, even if it cost more than it saved." I agree | |||
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"Ok - so which is more damaging to the UK, do you think... * tax evasion * the work-shy ? Seriously? I see more headline devoted the Jeremy Kyle style demonisation of the poor than I do shouting for banker's heads on spikes... I think they are both equally damaging in their own ways. That's why this government is and the coalition before had taken action against both groups. Pfft! C'mon! Tax evasion and avoidance costs the country more" You should not include tax avoidance, which, however aggressive, is legal, with tax evasion and benefits cheating. | |||
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"Ok - so which is more damaging to the UK, do you think... * tax evasion * the work-shy ? Seriously? I see more headline devoted the Jeremy Kyle style demonisation of the poor than I do shouting for banker's heads on spikes... I think they are both equally damaging in their own ways. That's why this government is and the coalition before had taken action against both groups. Pfft! C'mon! Tax evasion and avoidance costs the country more You should not include tax avoidance, which, however aggressive, is legal, with tax evasion and benefits cheating. " Maybe it should be made illegal? Why give people with accountants a head start? Rest of us have to pay... | |||
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" Maybe it should be made illegal? Why give people with accountants a head start? Rest of us have to pay..." OP, have you any suggestions on how to reframe tax legislation? The regulations (out of necessity) run to millions of words. If you would like to spend the next hundred years sifting through them and battling the minds of experienced barristers then please feel free to do so. You do, of course, also have to make sure that those in a genuine situation do not end up paying more tax than they should. It really is not that simple. If it was, it would have been done many decades ago. | |||
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"Ok - so which is more damaging to the UK, do you think... * tax evasion * the work-shy ? Seriously? I see more headline devoted the Jeremy Kyle style demonisation of the poor than I do shouting for banker's heads on spikes... I think they are both equally damaging in their own ways. That's why this government is and the coalition before had taken action against both groups. Pfft! C'mon! Tax evasion and avoidance costs the country more You should not include tax avoidance, which, however aggressive, is legal, with tax evasion and benefits cheating. Maybe it should be made illegal? Why give people with accountants a head start? Rest of us have to pay..." That would totally screw up the ISA industry for a start. That's a government backed tax avoidance scheme. You could also run into problems every time you bought duty free or tax exempt goods when on holiday. You could even argue that if you buy anything abroad that has a lower VAT on it than UK VAT that is tax avoidance to. You can not make it illegal for people to arrange there affairs in a way that gives them the least tax liability. What you can do is make sure the rules are simple and clear so that you don't need an expensive tax expert to navigate your way through them all. | |||
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"Ok - so which is more damaging to the UK, do you think... * tax evasion * the work-shy ? Seriously? I see more headline devoted the Jeremy Kyle style demonisation of the poor than I do shouting for banker's heads on spikes... I think they are both equally damaging in their own ways. That's why this government is and the coalition before had taken action against both groups. Pfft! C'mon! Tax evasion and avoidance costs the country more You should not include tax avoidance, which, however aggressive, is legal, with tax evasion and benefits cheating. Maybe it should be made illegal? Why give people with accountants a head start? Rest of us have to pay... That would totally screw up the ISA industry for a start. That's a government backed tax avoidance scheme. You could also run into problems every time you bought duty free or tax exempt goods when on holiday. You could even argue that if you buy anything abroad that has a lower VAT on it than UK VAT that is tax avoidance to. You can not make it illegal for people to arrange there affairs in a way that gives them the least tax liability. What you can do is make sure the rules are simple and clear so that you don't need an expensive tax expert to navigate your way through them all." All fair points - but it's still a system of the haves and have-nots... And as this thread demonstrates, it's simpler to target the have-nots... It's that basic disparity that bothers me... | |||
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"There are some good and bad points. Whilst i disagree with tax credits as they only subsidise company profits at a time were limiting governent workers pay as we allegedly cant afford it cutting it would not be my option. Instead i would introduce a tax on companies who pay below a living wage (that required to be exempt from working tax credit) to recover the subidies that they are effectivly getting by paying low wages. We constantly hear about excutives pay being what it is because they want the best for the job. But surely this should be the same for any job. Now the civil servents are on their 10th year of a cap of 1% on pay it wont be long before the talented move along which will only lead to a poorer and less efficent service for everyone. And while were at it can we please make politicians classified as civil servents and come under the same pay and pension rules as that is truly what they are meant to be. I cant understand the need whilst they scream deficit deficit deficit to reduce coropration tax when we already had the lowest in europe." I agree that MP's pay should be pegged to a given civil; servant grade (not sure which one). I don't agree with you on corp tax, often lowering tax rates on companies actually brings in more revenue, it also makes the companies more competitive so could bring in higher exports. As for the 1% pay rise, I sort of agree with you but, until this last year, you're lucky that you got any pay rise at all. I've had a pay cut every year for the last 5 years. | |||
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"Since leaving school at 16 I have never once had a free payout . No tax credits , no nothing . Believe it or not , hard work and a concentious work ethic have held me in good stead . Bought my first home at 21 , now mortgage free , owe nothing . If it weren't for the two failed marriages which cost me a fucking fortune I would be very well off now . But I am so happy with this , my third and final marriage and although we aren't minted we do ok . And I am happy to vote Tory , the party which has done way more to help me than labour , who seem to want to help those who can't , or who wont help themselves . This is the world we live in , everyone wants something for nothing . Entitlement , but don't want to get off their arses to earn it . Don't get me wrong , those unfortunate enough to be disabled deserve help , but the idle scroungers who frequent the tabloids and Jeremy Kyle show can fuck right off as far as I'm concerned .
Are you sure...?
a) The 'idle scroungers' are a tiny, hardcore minority blown up by the right-wing press to tar everyone on benefits - it's just a vile stick to beat people with
b)houses were affordable when you bought one
c) there were greater opportunities for you (don't forget youth unemployment in the UK is the worst it's been for 20 years)
d) it's not about entitlement - it's about making things a little fairer/easier for those with less.
what would you do with a)
I don't think a) is a serious problem
In terms of actual numbers it may not be all that serious (a but like Tax evasion also) but both are serious problems because they both totally undermine peoples belief, trust and faith in the fairness of the system.
The system not only MUST be fair but must also be SEEN to be fair, especially by those who are paying for it.
So why shaft the honest ones because of a minority of layabouts?
It's not about shafting anyone. It's about moving away from a culture of low pay with high welfare dependency and moving towards a culture of high pay and low welfare dependency.
By itself, just cutting Tax Credit would be an attack on the poor but with the increase in tax free allowance and the minimum wage increasing to £9 per hour by 2020 it's not."So what are they expected to do between now and 2020 when their net household income will have fallen? Starve? I suppose that gets rid of a a few thousand "problems". | |||
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"Since leaving school at 16 I have never once had a free payout . No tax credits , no nothing . Believe it or not , hard work and a concentious work ethic have held me in good stead . Bought my first home at 21 , now mortgage free , owe nothing . If it weren't for the two failed marriages which cost me a fucking fortune I would be very well off now . But I am so happy with this , my third and final marriage and although we aren't minted we do ok . And I am happy to vote Tory , the party which has done way more to help me than labour , who seem to want to help those who can't , or who wont help themselves . This is the world we live in , everyone wants something for nothing . Entitlement , but don't want to get off their arses to earn it . Don't get me wrong , those unfortunate enough to be disabled deserve help , but the idle scroungers who frequent the tabloids and Jeremy Kyle show can fuck right off as far as I'm concerned .
Are you sure...?
a) The 'idle scroungers' are a tiny, hardcore minority blown up by the right-wing press to tar everyone on benefits - it's just a vile stick to beat people with
b)houses were affordable when you bought one
c) there were greater opportunities for you (don't forget youth unemployment in the UK is the worst it's been for 20 years)
d) it's not about entitlement - it's about making things a little fairer/easier for those with less.
"You're too young to remember the recession of the 80's... it was way, way worse than it was this time. 3,000,000 plus unemployed, riots in the streets in every major city... oh, and I couldn't afford to buy a house until they started giving 6 times salary. And youth unemployment was worse than it is now. There were very little opportunities for young people then, certainly not the level of training and apprenticeships you get now, nor the university opportunities. The idle scroungers, I see every day of the week. I was in a pub the other day, and there was a guy on the phone explaining to the dole office that he couldn't make his appointment because he was in the hospital... as he sipped his pint. He only has to go to sign on once a month... and his daily jaunt to the pub is too important for even that! 10 minutes later he was back on the phone arranging some cash in hand work. Other people I know, live separately so that they get twice the benefits. People that get tax credits work loads of overtime until it is their assessment period, and then they cut back down to basic hours to get the full tax credits for another year. Yesterday, on TV, someone was asked what she would do if tax credits were reduced... she replied that she'd have to work full time and not part time... so why isn't she working full time now? Because she's getting money for nothing. And that's what the tax credit system has, unfortunately created. Someone else, asked if they wanted to work, said that they would love to be able to get a job.. but wanted a job that paid £400 per week after tax. When asked why that much, the answer was because that was how much their benefits were, and then they said they should be getting more than that because they would have to be working for it. I cannot, and never will be able to, see how it can be fair for people not working to be getting more in their pocket than those who do work. Nor for people who do the same job to be getting more through tax credits and other benefits because they have more children than someone else. I'm very fortunate, I've never been in the position of being out of work. I've never had to claim anything. I've worked bloody hard for what I've got, and continue to do so. Years ago, dole money used to be based upon what you were earning in the 6 months before you we became unemployed.. and then was scaled back if you were claiming for more than 6 months.. maybe it should go back to that. Don't get me wrong, everybody falls on hard times at some point, and should get the help they need. But far too many take the piss out of hardworking taxpayers, and see getting a free ride as some sort of entitlement. | |||
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"be interesting to see what the IFS say, they usually cut through the spin and flim flammery.." They say it hits the poor hardest and makes them poorer. | |||
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"Since leaving school at 16 I have never once had a free payout . No tax credits , no nothing . Believe it or not , hard work and a concentious work ethic have held me in good stead . Bought my first home at 21 , now mortgage free , owe nothing . If it weren't for the two failed marriages which cost me a fucking fortune I would be very well off now . But I am so happy with this , my third and final marriage and although we aren't minted we do ok . And I am happy to vote Tory , the party which has done way more to help me than labour , who seem to want to help those who can't , or who wont help themselves . This is the world we live in , everyone wants something for nothing . Entitlement , but don't want to get off their arses to earn it . Don't get me wrong , those unfortunate enough to be disabled deserve help , but the idle scroungers who frequent the tabloids and Jeremy Kyle show can fuck right off as far as I'm concerned .
Are you sure...?
a) The 'idle scroungers' are a tiny, hardcore minority blown up by the right-wing press to tar everyone on benefits - it's just a vile stick to beat people with
b)houses were affordable when you bought one
c) there were greater opportunities for you (don't forget youth unemployment in the UK is the worst it's been for 20 years)
d) it's not about entitlement - it's about making things a little fairer/easier for those with less.
You're too young to remember the recession of the 80's... it was way, way worse than it was this time. 3,000,000 plus unemployed, riots in the streets in every major city... oh, and I couldn't afford to buy a house until they started giving 6 times salary. And youth unemployment was worse than it is now.
There were very little opportunities for young people then, certainly not the level of training and apprenticeships you get now, nor the university opportunities.
The idle scroungers, I see every day of the week. I was in a pub the other day, and there was a guy on the phone explaining to the dole office that he couldn't make his appointment because he was in the hospital... as he sipped his pint. He only has to go to sign on once a month... and his daily jaunt to the pub is too important for even that! 10 minutes later he was back on the phone arranging some cash in hand work. Other people I know, live separately so that they get twice the benefits.
People that get tax credits work loads of overtime until it is their assessment period, and then they cut back down to basic hours to get the full tax credits for another year. Yesterday, on TV, someone was asked what she would do if tax credits were reduced... she replied that she'd have to work full time and not part time... so why isn't she working full time now? Because she's getting money for nothing. And that's what the tax credit system has, unfortunately created.
Someone else, asked if they wanted to work, said that they would love to be able to get a job.. but wanted a job that paid £400 per week after tax. When asked why that much, the answer was because that was how much their benefits were, and then they said they should be getting more than that because they would have to be working for it.
I cannot, and never will be able to, see how it can be fair for people not working to be getting more in their pocket than those who do work. Nor for people who do the same job to be getting more through tax credits and other benefits because they have more children than someone else.
I'm very fortunate, I've never been in the position of being out of work. I've never had to claim anything. I've worked bloody hard for what I've got, and continue to do so.
Years ago, dole money used to be based upon what you were earning in the 6 months before you we became unemployed.. and then was scaled back if you were claiming for more than 6 months.. maybe it should go back to that.
Don't get me wrong, everybody falls on hard times at some point, and should get the help they need. But far too many take the piss out of hardworking taxpayers, and see getting a free ride as some sort of entitlement. "Well said | |||
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"HMRC admits to tax evasion of £4.1 billion and claims that avoidance schemes subject to scrutiny account for £3.1 billion The total cost of all benefits for 2013-14 is about £164 billion. Around £1.2 billion or 0.7 per cent of the total is attributed to fraud If the above figures are true, it isn't benefit fraud that is the biggest problem." It never has been but that isn't the narrative that we have. Just as the narrative is becoming that the Chancellor is giving everyone a national living wage of £9 per hour. He has increased the NMW by 40p and it won't rise to £9 per hour for five years. It is still a long way short of the living wage. By the press and others constantly calling it The National Living Wage somehow we have a new narrative of what a living wage along with a belief by those who don't know what the NMW is that the low paid are all paid £9 per hour now. | |||
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"be interesting to see what the IFS say, they usually cut through the spin and flim flammery.. They say it hits the poor hardest and makes them poorer. " yes read their appraisal earlier, funny enough the Tories are dismissing the report.. | |||
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"£9.00 p/h - that's quite a lot " Will it be the same 'quite a lot' when it is actually achieved in 2020? | |||
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"£9.00 p/h - that's quite a lot " wrong ..... it's 288 bucks a week ..... that's not a lot | |||
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"£9.00 p/h - that's quite a lot Will it be the same 'quite a lot' when it is actually achieved in 2020? " I believe so - and not forgetting the increasing personal tax threshold . | |||
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"£9.00 p/h - that's quite a lot wrong ..... it's 288 bucks a week ..... that's not a lot " How is it wrong ? | |||
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"£9.00 p/h - that's quite a lot Will it be the same 'quite a lot' when it is actually achieved in 2020? I believe so - and not forgetting the increasing personal tax threshold . " I used to earn £12 p/h when I was a secretarial temp in the 80s. Temping was the zero hours world so I couldn't say what I would earn each week but I was a great temp and usually had more than enough. Now I get work that can work out at £6 p/h for skilled work but I'm no longer good enough to be a secretarial temp. Funny old world. I'm not holding my breath that £9 p/h will mean a lot in 2020. | |||
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"Since leaving school at 16 I have never once had a free payout . No tax credits , no nothing . Believe it or not , hard work and a concentious work ethic have held me in good stead . Bought my first home at 21 , now mortgage free , owe nothing . If it weren't for the two failed marriages which cost me a fucking fortune I would be very well off now . But I am so happy with this , my third and final marriage and although we aren't minted we do ok . And I am happy to vote Tory , the party which has done way more to help me than labour , who seem to want to help those who can't , or who wont help themselves . This is the world we live in , everyone wants something for nothing . Entitlement , but don't want to get off their arses to earn it . Don't get me wrong , those unfortunate enough to be disabled deserve help , but the idle scroungers who frequent the tabloids and Jeremy Kyle show can fuck right off as far as I'm concerned .
Are you sure...?
a) The 'idle scroungers' are a tiny, hardcore minority blown up by the right-wing press to tar everyone on benefits - it's just a vile stick to beat people with
b)houses were affordable when you bought one
c) there were greater opportunities for you (don't forget youth unemployment in the UK is the worst it's been for 20 years)
d) it's not about entitlement - it's about making things a little fairer/easier for those with less.
what would you do with a)
I don't think a) is a serious problem
In terms of actual numbers it may not be all that serious (a but like Tax evasion also) but both are serious problems because they both totally undermine peoples belief, trust and faith in the fairness of the system.
The system not only MUST be fair but must also be SEEN to be fair, especially by those who are paying for it.
So why shaft the honest ones because of a minority of layabouts?
It's not about shafting anyone. It's about moving away from a culture of low pay with high welfare dependency and moving towards a culture of high pay and low welfare dependency.
By itself, just cutting Tax Credit would be an attack on the poor but with the increase in tax free allowance and the minimum wage increasing to £9 per hour by 2020 it's not.
So what are they expected to do between now and 2020 when their net household income will have fallen? Starve? I suppose that gets rid of a a few thousand "problems"."I guess it depends on individual cases but they don't have to wait till 2020. The new living/minimum wage starts next April at £7.20. | |||
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"£9.00 p/h - that's quite a lot wrong ..... it's 288 bucks a week ..... that's not a lot " It's 360 bucks a week for a 40 hour week , and that's not bad at all | |||
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"£9.00 p/h - that's quite a lot wrong ..... it's 288 bucks a week ..... that's not a lot It's 360 bucks a week for a 40 hour week , and that's not bad at all "it's 288.87 take home on a standard working week actually | |||
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"£9.00 p/h - that's quite a lot wrong ..... it's 288 bucks a week ..... that's not a lot It's 360 bucks a week for a 40 hour week , and that's not bad at all
it's 288.87 take home on a standard working week actually
"Would be interested to see the calculations | |||
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"£9.00 p/h - that's quite a lot wrong ..... it's 288 bucks a week ..... that's not a lot It's 360 bucks a week for a 40 hour week , and that's not bad at all
it's 288.87 take home on a standard working week actually
Would be interested to see the calculations"gross earnings Yearly Monthly Weekly Daily £17,550 £1,462 £337 £67.50 take home £15,021 £1,251 £288 £57 | |||
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"A lot of people will have worked their socks off at school/uni possibly burdening themselves with student debt to get into a job paying mid 20's (working out at say £12 per hour) just to see an extra £3ph being handed to the minimum wage lot....classic benefits Britain handout." Some of those graduates and hard working lot are in the minimum wage bracket too. Lets give them a 'you got an ology' pay rise shall we? Lumping everyone together as the minimum wage lot scrounging is all part of the lie that keeps this as us and them. I have never claimed anything. I have paid my taxes (including VAT building/plumbing etc. type work where everyone else is saying it would be cheaper cash in hand). Just because I have paid doesn't mean that I feel I am owed more. Fairness is about what people need to live. Not everyone has the wherewithal to manage. | |||
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"£9.00 p/h - that's quite a lot wrong ..... it's 288 bucks a week ..... that's not a lot It's 360 bucks a week for a 40 hour week , and that's not bad at all
it's 288.87 take home on a standard working week actually
Would be interested to see the calculations
gross earnings
Yearly Monthly Weekly Daily
£17,550 £1,462 £337 £67.50
take home
£15,021 £1,251 £288 £57"based on current rates? | |||
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"£9.00 p/h - that's quite a lot wrong ..... it's 288 bucks a week ..... that's not a lot It's 360 bucks a week for a 40 hour week , and that's not bad at all
it's 288.87 take home on a standard working week actually
Would be interested to see the calculations
gross earnings
Yearly Monthly Weekly Daily
£17,550 £1,462 £337 £67.50
take home
£15,021 £1,251 £288 £57
based on current rates?"correct | |||
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"£9.00 p/h - that's quite a lot wrong ..... it's 288 bucks a week ..... that's not a lot It's 360 bucks a week for a 40 hour week , and that's not bad at all
it's 288.87 take home on a standard working week actually
Would be interested to see the calculations
gross earnings
Yearly Monthly Weekly Daily
£17,550 £1,462 £337 £67.50
take home
£15,021 £1,251 £288 £57
based on current rates?
correct
"By 2020 with the p/h rate increasing to £9 the personal allowance rises to 12,500 and also lower ni contributions | |||
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"£9.00 p/h - that's quite a lot Will it be the same 'quite a lot' when it is actually achieved in 2020? " It will still be £1.00 pounds an hour more than Labour promised for the minimum wage by 2020 | |||
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"Ohh sexy figures.. I like it... "Facts and figures never lie .... Unless you don't calculate them correctly | |||
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"£9.00 p/h - that's quite a lot wrong ..... it's 288 bucks a week ..... that's not a lot It's 360 bucks a week for a 40 hour week , and that's not bad at all
it's 288.87 take home on a standard working week actually
Would be interested to see the calculations
gross earnings
Yearly Monthly Weekly Daily
£17,550 £1,462 £337 £67.50
take home
£15,021 £1,251 £288 £57
based on current rates?
correct
By 2020 with the p/h rate increasing to £9 the personal allowance rises to 12,500 and also lower ni contributions
"if these promises are actually met and the forcast figures the treasury have given are correct then they're cancelled out by the projected rpi trend so in real terms things will be the same as they are now | |||
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"£9.00 p/h - that's quite a lot wrong ..... it's 288 bucks a week ..... that's not a lot It's 360 bucks a week for a 40 hour week , and that's not bad at all
it's 288.87 take home on a standard working week actually
Would be interested to see the calculations
gross earnings
Yearly Monthly Weekly Daily
£17,550 £1,462 £337 £67.50
take home
£15,021 £1,251 £288 £57
based on current rates?
correct
By 2020 with the p/h rate increasing to £9 the personal allowance rises to 12,500 and also lower ni contributions
if these promises are actually met and the forcast figures the treasury have given are correct then they're cancelled out by the projected rpi trend so in real terms things will be the same as they are now"Rpi figures ? Going to need some more calculations please | |||
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"£9.00 p/h - that's quite a lot Will it be the same 'quite a lot' when it is actually achieved in 2020? It will still be £1.00 pounds an hour more than Labour promised for the minimum wage by 2020" A promised Labour figure for a budget that hasn't happened means nothing. I wouldn't have been happy with that either. As I said on the other thread, George pulled off a blinder. It's a proper political budget. Now that we have it though looking at the reality and the detail is what is important not 'the other lot would have done something else'. We don't know what they would have done, just as we didn't know all of what Gideon was going to do. There is a still a CSR planned for this autumn. I'm interested in how that plays out for what we actually receive as services. Cuts to those affect us more directly in our pockets. We are politically polar opposites so I know it doesn't really matter what I say as the response is generally that the other side would have done something different. My prediction is that they won't be in power for at least 10 years and possibly 15 so my energy is not on what they would have done or what they might do but on the budget we have and how that affects real people. | |||
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Only the Fucking Tories !!! | |||
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"£9.00 p/h - that's quite a lot wrong ..... it's 288 bucks a week ..... that's not a lot It's 360 bucks a week for a 40 hour week , and that's not bad at all
it's 288.87 take home on a standard working week actually
Would be interested to see the calculations
gross earnings
Yearly Monthly Weekly Daily
£17,550 £1,462 £337 £67.50
take home
£15,021 £1,251 £288 £57
based on current rates?
correct
By 2020 with the p/h rate increasing to £9 the personal allowance rises to 12,500 and also lower ni contributions
if these promises are actually met and the forcast figures the treasury have given are correct then they're cancelled out by the projected rpi trend so in real terms things will be the same as they are now
Rpi figures ? Going to need some more calculations please "... bearing in mind that an increase in the tax threshold to 12,500 is an annual increase of £380.... that's £31.66 monthly ..... or £7.31 weekly ..... pretty negligable | |||
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"£9.00 p/h - that's quite a lot wrong ..... it's 288 bucks a week ..... that's not a lot It's 360 bucks a week for a 40 hour week , and that's not bad at all
it's 288.87 take home on a standard working week actually
Would be interested to see the calculations
gross earnings
Yearly Monthly Weekly Daily
£17,550 £1,462 £337 £67.50
take home
£15,021 £1,251 £288 £57
based on current rates?
correct
By 2020 with the p/h rate increasing to £9 the personal allowance rises to 12,500 and also lower ni contributions
if these promises are actually met and the forcast figures the treasury have given are correct then they're cancelled out by the projected rpi trend so in real terms things will be the same as they are now
Rpi figures ? Going to need some more calculations please "...reckon you need to do your own homework an stop asking classmates for answers lol Did you not consider RPI increases...load of bread an price of milk increase over time. How on earth can anyone on fabs estimate rpi 5years down the line, common sense to me what the previous posters point is. | |||
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"£9.00 p/h - that's quite a lot wrong ..... it's 288 bucks a week ..... that's not a lot It's 360 bucks a week for a 40 hour week , and that's not bad at all
it's 288.87 take home on a standard working week actually
Would be interested to see the calculations
gross earnings
Yearly Monthly Weekly Daily
£17,550 £1,462 £337 £67.50
take home
£15,021 £1,251 £288 £57
based on current rates?
correct
By 2020 with the p/h rate increasing to £9 the personal allowance rises to 12,500 and also lower ni contributions
if these promises are actually met and the forcast figures the treasury have given are correct then they're cancelled out by the projected rpi trend so in real terms things will be the same as they are now
Rpi figures ? Going to need some more calculations please
... bearing in mind that an increase in the tax threshold to 12,500 is an annual increase of £380.... that's £31.66 monthly ..... or £7.31 weekly ..... pretty negligable
"£380??? Annually | |||
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"£9.00 p/h - that's quite a lot wrong ..... it's 288 bucks a week ..... that's not a lot It's 360 bucks a week for a 40 hour week , and that's not bad at all
it's 288.87 take home on a standard working week actually
Would be interested to see the calculations
gross earnings
Yearly Monthly Weekly Daily
£17,550 £1,462 £337 £67.50
take home
£15,021 £1,251 £288 £57
based on current rates?
correct
By 2020 with the p/h rate increasing to £9 the personal allowance rises to 12,500 and also lower ni contributions
if these promises are actually met and the forcast figures the treasury have given are correct then they're cancelled out by the projected rpi trend so in real terms things will be the same as they are now
Rpi figures ? Going to need some more calculations please
... bearing in mind that an increase in the tax threshold to 12,500 is an annual increase of £380.... that's £31.66 monthly ..... or £7.31 weekly ..... pretty negligable
£380??? Annually "correct ..... £12,500(your projected allowance) minus £10,500 (current threshold) divided by 20%(current tax rate) equals £380 | |||
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"Since leaving school at 16 I have never once had a free payout . No tax credits , no nothing . Believe it or not , hard work and a concentious work ethic have held me in good stead . Bought my first home at 21 , now mortgage free , owe nothing . If it weren't for the two failed marriages which cost me a fucking fortune I would be very well off now . But I am so happy with this , my third and final marriage and although we aren't minted we do ok . And I am happy to vote Tory , the party which has done way more to help me than labour , who seem to want to help those who can't , or who wont help themselves . This is the world we live in , everyone wants something for nothing . Entitlement , but don't want to get off their arses to earn it . Don't get me wrong , those unfortunate enough to be disabled deserve help , but the idle scroungers who frequent the tabloids and Jeremy Kyle show can fuck right off as far as I'm concerned .
Are you sure...?
a) The 'idle scroungers' are a tiny, hardcore minority blown up by the right-wing press to tar everyone on benefits - it's just a vile stick to beat people with
b)houses were affordable when you bought one
c) there were greater opportunities for you (don't forget youth unemployment in the UK is the worst it's been for 20 years)
d) it's not about entitlement - it's about making things a little fairer/easier for those with less.
The system caters to the idle scroungers , this budget has made it harder for them
Having loads of kids when you can't afford to raise them is selfish and unfair to the kids . It's also ridiculous that those people who are better off should have to pay for others stupidity .
I had 3 jobs on the go to afford my first home , and got a run down place which needed lots of work done .
The welfare state was introduced to help those who couldn't help themselves . It's become a tool to abuse and replace hard work .
The Tories have and always will reward those who help themselves .
"No they don't. My gran was widowed when my dad was 7, and had 3 jobs to get by. Then when she retired, she then had her state pension screwed over by thatcher when she took the link to earnings away. If my gran was still alive, i'd love you to spend 5 minutes explaining your mantra to her and see how you get on!. | |||
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" People that get tax credits work loads of overtime until it is their assessment period, and then they cut back down to basic hours to get the full tax credits for another year. . " From what I read on the TC site today while looking for an answer from another post , you have to put in your previous years earnings to claim, so what you are saying doesn't add up | |||
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"That facts are sooo dull I know. But I did have a dream about dear old Gideon last night... I was a night porter in a Gilbert Scott-type building where he was staying and before the end of the dream I'd managed to turn all the low-waged staff against him and the whole hotel was playing practical jokes on out esteemed Chancellor and everyone was laughing at him. It was one of those dreams you feel sad to have woken from. ". So you want people to pay more for hotel rooms and food. How does that help anyone ?. No one is compelled to accept a low paid job. Skills and qualifications have to be earned . | |||
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"That facts are sooo dull I know. But I did have a dream about dear old Gideon last night... I was a night porter in a Gilbert Scott-type building where he was staying and before the end of the dream I'd managed to turn all the low-waged staff against him and the whole hotel was playing practical jokes on out esteemed Chancellor and everyone was laughing at him. It was one of those dreams you feel sad to have woken from. . So you want people to pay more for hotel rooms and food. How does that help anyone ?. No one is compelled to accept a low paid job. Skills and qualifications have to be earned ."Yes, they are compelled to accept low paid jobs. That's exactly where we're at. Even those with skills and qualifications. | |||
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"That facts are sooo dull I know. But I did have a dream about dear old Gideon last night... I was a night porter in a Gilbert Scott-type building where he was staying and before the end of the dream I'd managed to turn all the low-waged staff against him and the whole hotel was playing practical jokes on out esteemed Chancellor and everyone was laughing at him. It was one of those dreams you feel sad to have woken from. . So you want people to pay more for hotel rooms and food. How does that help anyone ?. No one is compelled to accept a low paid job. Skills and qualifications have to be earned .
Yes, they are compelled to accept low paid jobs. That's exactly where we're at. Even those with skills and qualifications.
"And zero hours contracts x | |||
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" No one is compelled to accept a low paid job. Skills and qualifications have to be earned." Skills and qualifications are no guarantee of a job and people are compelled to take low paid jobs - come live in the countryside and see. | |||
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"£9.00 p/h - that's quite a lot wrong ..... it's 288 bucks a week ..... that's not a lot It's 360 bucks a week for a 40 hour week , and that's not bad at all
it's 288.87 take home on a standard working week actually
Would be interested to see the calculations
gross earnings
Yearly Monthly Weekly Daily
£17,550 £1,462 £337 £67.50
take home
£15,021 £1,251 £288 £57
based on current rates?
correct
By 2020 with the p/h rate increasing to £9 the personal allowance rises to 12,500 and also lower ni contributions
if these promises are actually met and the forcast figures the treasury have given are correct then they're cancelled out by the projected rpi trend so in real terms things will be the same as they are now
Rpi figures ? Going to need some more calculations please
... bearing in mind that an increase in the tax threshold to 12,500 is an annual increase of £380.... that's £31.66 monthly ..... or £7.31 weekly ..... pretty negligable
£380??? Annually
correct ..... £12,500(your projected allowance) minus £10,500 (current threshold) divided by 20%(current tax rate) equals £380"it's stil quite a lot | |||
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"£9.00 p/h - that's quite a lot wrong ..... it's 288 bucks a week ..... that's not a lot " Last time I was at school £9 per hour for a 40 hour week worked out at £360 per week, or £18,720 p.a.... The type of work that would be paid this wage would also probably have opportunities for overtime. A reasonable level of overtime would probably push the annual pay up to, say, £22k...net about £1,400 per month. I went through tough times once upon a time.. my mortgage was £680 per month, and my take home was £830 per month (salaried, so no overtime)... I got a second job, working an extra 20 to 30 hours a week. This meant I had enough to survive. And that's what I did... survive. I cut everything back as far as I could... cheap food, pound shops, no convenience or processed foods, planned my meals, cheap clothes, changed my car for a cheaper one, no mobile, entertained at home most of the time instead of pubbing and clubbing, etc, etc, etc... When times are tough you have to cut your cloth accordingly... and people aren't prepared to do that now. | |||
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"I agree with no tax credits for more than two children if people want more kids then they should be able to pay for themselves. As for cutting tax credits and upping living wage which will come first. The upping of living wage I should think will not happen till 2020 when there is will be another election. The cuts include working tax credits people who are working but still not able to afford to live they are not living in luxury they are just trying to survive how many working people have to rely on food banks. It will be the low workers that will be affected most and will create more poverty. And affect the weak frail and disabled. More cuts for students who will help the next generation to thrive. Promises not held, More lies but then what do people expect the Conservatives were voted in on lies and more lies x " . The Conservatives were voted in because the majority of voters were impressed by how they ran the economy . Everything that you have in life has to be earned , not given to you on a plate by the government . | |||
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"If I just keep bumping (bumming) this thread it will max out and we can all get back to our opinionated lives, living in impenetrable silos, shouting at one another... " | |||
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"£9.00 p/h - that's quite a lot wrong ..... it's 288 bucks a week ..... that's not a lot Last time I was at school £9 per hour for a 40 hour week worked out at £360 per week, or £18,720 p.a.... The type of work that would be paid this wage would also probably have opportunities for overtime. A reasonable level of overtime would probably push the annual pay up to, say, £22k...net about £1,400 per month. I went through tough times once upon a time.. my mortgage was £680 per month, and my take home was £830 per month (salaried, so no overtime)... I got a second job, working an extra 20 to 30 hours a week. This meant I had enough to survive. And that's what I did... survive. I cut everything back as far as I could... cheap food, pound shops, no convenience or processed foods, planned my meals, cheap clothes, changed my car for a cheaper one, no mobile, entertained at home most of the time instead of pubbing and clubbing, etc, etc, etc... When times are tough you have to cut your cloth accordingly... and people aren't prepared to do that now. " They don't all have opportunities for overtime. Paying an hourly rate rather than a salary might mean someone earns £36 one week and £360 another. It happens. | |||
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"£9.00 p/h - that's quite a lot wrong ..... it's 288 bucks a week ..... that's not a lot Last time I was at school £9 per hour for a 40 hour week worked out at £360 per week, or £18,720 p.a.... The type of work that would be paid this wage would also probably have opportunities for overtime. A reasonable level of overtime would probably push the annual pay up to, say, £22k...net about £1,400 per month. I went through tough times once upon a time.. my mortgage was £680 per month, and my take home was £830 per month (salaried, so no overtime)... I got a second job, working an extra 20 to 30 hours a week. This meant I had enough to survive. And that's what I did... survive. I cut everything back as far as I could... cheap food, pound shops, no convenience or processed foods, planned my meals, cheap clothes, changed my car for a cheaper one, no mobile, entertained at home most of the time instead of pubbing and clubbing, etc, etc, etc... When times are tough you have to cut your cloth accordingly... and people aren't prepared to do that now. " the standard working week is not 40 hours and you've forgoten to deduct tax and ni on the £360 you've mentioned | |||
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"Tell a lie - 167 Help me somebody!" It may not work. I saw that there was a thread that reached 246 the other day. That's got to be a new record. I'm watching a very shouty QT where all the questions are budget related. | |||
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" No one is compelled to accept a low paid job. Skills and qualifications have to be earned. Skills and qualifications are no guarantee of a job and people are compelled to take low paid jobs - come live in the countryside and see. " . I have loved deep in the heart of the countryside but have travelled extensively in order to obtain work. You have to prove yourself to potential employers and show what you can contribute . | |||
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"The Conservatives were voted in because the majority of voters were impressed by how they ran the economy ." the economy under the coalition, just how did anyone equate a national debt of 81% of GDP or about £1.5 trillion as being impressive or anything other than a mess..? | |||
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"The Conservatives were voted in because the majority of voters were impressed by how they ran the economy . the economy under the coalition, just how did anyone equate a national debt of 81% of GDP or about £1.5 trillion as being impressive or anything other than a mess..? " I am still shaking my head wondering this. No one spoke up and I really don't understand why. That's the past though and we're where we are now with this budget and a deep cutting CSR to come in the autumn. | |||
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"My biggest problem with Osborne is.... He just looks like a cunt, a smarmy cunt, like the kid who took his ball in because he couldn't be zico... I get that mini sick popping back into my mouth, every time his little smarmy fat face appears with his gloating smug nasal voice declaring Tory bollocks... Apart from that, his budget was so so
You wouldn't do him then?
Some of the budget is hard, some is good.
Backdating housing benefit for 4 weeks only - makes sense. It forces people to take responsibility.
I understand the under 21 housing benefit - will be paid if you've worked for previous 6 months.
Tax credits - we didn't used to have it did we ? We all survived - I'm trying to suss out what we had before it or did we just cope ? I'm thinking the cost of living was a lot less compared to wages before it was introduced."Tac credite replaced higher tac codes for married people with kids a single parents now there taking them off us im screwed both ways i work for the goverment so i get 1% payrise n now tax credits are being cut im fooked. Mates a nurse she hasnt had a pay rise for 4yrs n her tax credits are being cut shes even worse off then me | |||
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