FabSwingers.com mobile

Join us FREE, we're FREE to use

Web's largest swingers site since 2006.

Already registered?
Login here

Back to forum list
Back to The Lounge

Rewilding the UK

Jump to newest
 

By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

How do people feel about the reintroduction of Wolves and Lynx into the UK? they would balance the Ecology as top predators and have been missing for hundreds of years, thanks to humans as usual. There are more human deaths caused in Europe by domestic dogs than by wild animals, and yet we allow them to roam free around housing estates etc, so I fail to see why people are against Wolves in the Scottish Highlands. I would love it personally.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Forget it we cant control all the muslim hate preachers, never mind filing the country with wild animals !!!

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Forget it we cant control all the muslim hate preachers, never mind filing the country with wild animals !!! "

WTF?

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Welcome to Utopia

Gimp

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Forget it we cant control all the muslim hate preachers, never mind filing the country with wild animals !!! "

Where did that come from???

I think it's a great idea, we have so much natural countryside and massive protected parks that animals like this should be allowe to be free and help keep a natural balance in the environment.

We as humans have destroyed so much of the natural world that it's time we gave it back to other species on the planet .

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Forget it we cant control all the muslim hate preachers, never mind filing the country with wild animals !!!

WTF?"

I read it as tongue-in-cheek... Do you not have a sense of humour?

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Forget it we cant control all the muslim hate preachers, never mind filing the country with wild animals !!!

Where did that come from???

I think it's a great idea, we have so much natural countryside and massive protected parks that animals like this should be allowe to be free and help keep a natural balance in the environment.

We as humans have destroyed so much of the natural world that it's time we gave it back to other species on the planet ."

There`s also the added bonus of tourist economy, people pay millions to see and hear Wolves in yellowstone every year, this is being used as a bargaining tool.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

There are loads of Lynx in cans on here. Many would say it's overpopulated with them.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

There`s also the added bonus of tourist economy, people pay millions to see and hear Wolves in yellowstone every year, this is being used as a bargaining tool.

"

They can watch them playing most weekends during the football season!

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I wouldnt mind introducing wolves back into the uk as long as it is the uk. Im sure the romantic nimbyism of sheffield saying that scotland should accept wolves is well meant but as lomg as sheffield accept their share i am for it

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *alandNitaCouple
over a year ago

Scunthorpe

I think it's more than just a good idea, I think its our obligation. We could do with some round here to keep the massive deer population under control, but unfortunately that wouldn't be practice..... It could make for some good sprint training on my cycle to work though

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"There are loads of Lynx in cans on here. Many would say it's overpopulated with them."

Lmfao.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *ssex_tomMan
over a year ago

Chelmsford

It would boost tourism. Lots of visitors to rural areas would boost local economies. Revenue for hunting licences and shooting parties would trickle down unto local economies.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It is a great idea that has been talked about now for years.

The opposition tends to come from farmers worried about their livestock but studies in Germany have shown the effect to be negligible.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Deer are currently munching their way through Britain's already limited number of woodlands and forests so re-introducing wolves would be positive in that it would keep deer on the move, reduce their numbers and allow woodlands to regenerate. The problem of course will be in persuading sheep and cattle owners that it's a good idea.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"I wouldnt mind introducing wolves back into the uk as long as it is the uk. Im sure the romantic nimbyism of sheffield saying that scotland should accept wolves is well meant but as lomg as sheffield accept their share i am for it"

Only certain areas would be suitable, the Highlands has been identified as remote enough to be suitable, Lynx could be released in loads of areas of the Uk because they are solitary and don`t roam as far as a Wolf pack, the main problem is Sheep.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Much of the deer problem in scotland is dealt with by the sporting estates

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"I think it's more than just a good idea, I think its our obligation. We could do with some round here to keep the massive deer population under control, but unfortunately that wouldn't be practice..... It could make for some good sprint training on my cycle to work though "

That is a main reason for the reintroduction, Lynx hunt Roe deer and would keep the population in check, this would help woodlands to regenerate, Wolves would keep Red Deer in check, major benefits from both animals.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Much of the deer problem in scotland is dealt with by the sporting estates"

It`s been proven that doesn`t work that`s why some estate owners welcome the reintroduction, humans are badly inefficient at control populations, and they weaken the strain by choosing strong healthy animals to shoot.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Much of the deer problem in scotland is dealt with by the sporting estates

It`s been proven that doesn`t work that`s why some estate owners welcome the reintroduction, humans are badly inefficient at control populations, and they weaken the strain by choosing strong healthy animals to shoot."

Despite the tongue in cheek replies earlier i would like to see the reintroduction of wolves alomg with wild boar and beavers. I think it would strengthen the biodiversity of scotland.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Much of the deer problem in scotland is dealt with by the sporting estates

It`s been proven that doesn`t work that`s why some estate owners welcome the reintroduction, humans are badly inefficient at control populations, and they weaken the strain by choosing strong healthy animals to shoot.

Despite the tongue in cheek replies earlier i would like to see the reintroduction of wolves alomg with wild boar and beavers. I think it would strengthen the biodiversity of scotland. "

The reintroduction of White tailed Eagles has boosted the tourism in scotland by millions each year alone, so more reintroductions would be great for all, I`d certainly be seeing a lot more more of the Highlands.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Much of the deer problem in scotland is dealt with by the sporting estates

It`s been proven that doesn`t work that`s why some estate owners welcome the reintroduction, humans are badly inefficient at control populations, and they weaken the strain by choosing strong healthy animals to shoot.

Despite the tongue in cheek replies earlier i would like to see the reintroduction of wolves alomg with wild boar and beavers. I think it would strengthen the biodiversity of scotland.

The reintroduction of White tailed Eagles has boosted the tourism in scotland by millions each year alone, so more reintroductions would be great for all, I`d certainly be seeing a lot more more of the Highlands.

"

Dont tell anyone but we are looking to move Caithness way to set up a tourism based business

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I would love to see them rewild areas x

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Much of the deer problem in scotland is dealt with by the sporting estates

It`s been proven that doesn`t work that`s why some estate owners welcome the reintroduction, humans are badly inefficient at control populations, and they weaken the strain by choosing strong healthy animals to shoot.

Despite the tongue in cheek replies earlier i would like to see the reintroduction of wolves alomg with wild boar and beavers. I think it would strengthen the biodiversity of scotland.

The reintroduction of White tailed Eagles has boosted the tourism in scotland by millions each year alone, so more reintroductions would be great for all, I`d certainly be seeing a lot more more of the Highlands.

Dont tell anyone but we are looking to move Caithness way to set up a tourism based business"

Good luck to you, glad you joined in this post.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"I would love to see them rewild areas x "

There`s a group called` Trees for life`, they are replanting parts of the Caledonian Forest, they bought a 40`000 hectare estate near Loch Ness, so it is happening, just needs to be on a bigger scale.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *arry247Couple
over a year ago

Wakefield

I think it is a short-sighted idea based on the false assertion that there is any wild or uncultivated land in the UK.

The landscape we see to day is not the natural landscape of history.

It has been manipulated and cultivated by the hand of man for thousands of years.

Re-introducing animals like wolves and lynx would be as disastrous as the introduction of grey squirrels into the UK and rabbits into Australia.

You claim we allow dogs to roam free round housing estates that is wrong thousands of pounds a year is spent on rounding up and catching stray dogs which are then impounded and put to sleep after a week if no one claims them.

The ecology of the UK has changed and can no longer support predators such as wolves and lynx.

The introduction the small colony of beavers into Scotland has been claimed by many as a success however the much larger unmonitored colony (thought to have developed from animals escaped from captivity or were released illegally) is causing concerns about farming and due to the spread of the parasitic giardia bacterium.

The problem is as with the escape and release of mink once these animals are released into the wild they are almost impossible to control.

The devastation of ground nesting birds and fish from the release/escape of mink is well documented and animals such as wolves and lynx though once native species must now be viewed as non native.

As with the fox, such animals will avoid contact with humans but it must be borne in mind that under certain circumstances those timid animals will attack and kill not only domestic animals but humans as well.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

my fave thing about these forums is that you could post a recipe for custard and it wont take long for someone to mention immigrants, isis or islam

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I wouldnt mind introducing wolves back into the uk as long as it is the uk. Im sure the romantic nimbyism of sheffield saying that scotland should accept wolves is well meant but as lomg as sheffield accept their share i am for it"

Hahaha

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"I think it is a short-sighted idea based on the false assertion that there is any wild or uncultivated land in the UK.

The landscape we see to day is not the natural landscape of history.

It has been manipulated and cultivated by the hand of man for thousands of years.

Re-introducing animals like wolves and lynx would be as disastrous as the introduction of grey squirrels into the UK and rabbits into Australia.

You claim we allow dogs to roam free round housing estates that is wrong thousands of pounds a year is spent on rounding up and catching stray dogs which are then impounded and put to sleep after a week if no one claims them.

The ecology of the UK has changed and can no longer support predators such as wolves and lynx.

The introduction the small colony of beavers into Scotland has been claimed by many as a success however the much larger unmonitored colony (thought to have developed from animals escaped from captivity or were released illegally) is causing concerns about farming and due to the spread of the parasitic giardia bacterium.

The problem is as with the escape and release of mink once these animals are released into the wild they are almost impossible to control.

The devastation of ground nesting birds and fish from the release/escape of mink is well documented and animals such as wolves and lynx though once native species must now be viewed as non native.

As with the fox, such animals will avoid contact with humans but it must be borne in mind that under certain circumstances those timid animals will attack and kill not only domestic animals but humans as well.

"

Not sure where you are getting your information from, but much is inaccurate, Grey Squirrels are not native to the UK and never were, they escaped from estates, Lynx have never attacked humans, unless humans are stupid enough to trap them, wolves will attack humans in extreme circumstances, but are actually afraid of us, and who can blame them, you would be very lucky to see one without an expert tracker, people in India live with Tigers and Leopard which are far more dangerous, and they don`t complain about reintroduction of these animals, rewilding in Europe has been very successful and as I said earlier, the domestic dog kills far more people than wolves ever have, we are not on their menu, they would have to be starving or rabib to risk hunting a human. One thing I do agree with you about is the unnatural landscape of the UK, but the Highlands is still a suitable habitat for wolves despite the massive deforestation, wolves live in a number of different habitats world wide and would easily adapt to life in the remote areas of scotland.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I can't see why not add them back into the wild.

What happens when we build into their territories, we will have wild urban wolves as well as urban foxes in our cities.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

personally i just wish people would stop thinking they can and should control nature.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

I think it's a great idea, we have so much natural countryside and massive protected parks that animals like this should be allowe to be free and help keep a natural balance in the environment.

We as humans have destroyed so much of the natural world that it's time we gave it back to other species on the planet."

We need to do more to restore nature's natural balance.

This is a superb idea.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"personally i just wish people would stop thinking they can and should control nature."

I totally agree, that is what rewilding is based upon, putting things right so nature takes charge again.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"I can't see why not add them back into the wild.

What happens when we build into their territories, we will have wild urban wolves as well as urban foxes in our cities.

"

That`s one of the reasons we should only introduce them to remote areas, away from cities and towns.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"personally i just wish people would stop thinking they can and should control nature.

I totally agree, that is what rewilding is based upon, putting things right so nature takes charge again."

Its just another example of the human race deluding itself that it has any control over nature at all. The human race is very arrogant in my opinion.Its also a bit pointless and peice meal really.Just something some people can go "look what we did" its always about people.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"personally i just wish people would stop thinking they can and should control nature.

I totally agree, that is what rewilding is based upon, putting things right so nature takes charge again.

Its just another example of the human race deluding itself that it has any control over nature at all. The human race is very arrogant in my opinion.Its also a bit pointless and peice meal really.Just something some people can go "look what we did" its always about people. "

We always have to show monetary value before people agree, unfortunately, rewilding is the best way forward for nature in the UK, sad that there is no wilderness in the UK anymore, nature reserves are too contrived, made mostly for humans to observe rather than for the animals and plants.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"personally i just wish people would stop thinking they can and should control nature.

I totally agree, that is what rewilding is based upon, putting things right so nature takes charge again.

Its just another example of the human race deluding itself that it has any control over nature at all. The human race is very arrogant in my opinion.Its also a bit pointless and peice meal really.Just something some people can go "look what we did" its always about people.

We always have to show monetary value before people agree, unfortunately, rewilding is the best way forward for nature in the UK, sad that there is no wilderness in the UK anymore, nature reserves are too contrived, made mostly for humans to observe rather than for the animals and plants."

Hmm people often talk about nature and the natural environment like its something they are seperate from. If this experiment goes ahead it wont be long before there are safaris, poachers and hunting. Then no doubt someone will be attacked by a pack of wolves and we can start the debate all over again.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *arry247Couple
over a year ago

Wakefield


"

Not sure where you are getting your information from, but much is inaccurate, Grey Squirrels are not native to the UK and never were, they escaped from estates, Lynx have never attacked humans, unless humans are stupid enough to trap them, wolves will attack humans in extreme circumstances, but are actually afraid of us, and who can blame them, you would be very lucky to see one without an expert tracker, people in India live with Tigers and Leopard which are far more dangerous, and they don`t complain about reintroduction of these animals, rewilding in Europe has been very successful and as I said earlier, the domestic dog kills far more people than wolves ever have, we are not on their menu, they would have to be starving or rabib to risk hunting a human. One thing I do agree with you about is the unnatural landscape of the UK, but the Highlands is still a suitable habitat for wolves despite the massive deforestation, wolves live in a number of different habitats world wide and would easily adapt to life in the remote areas of scotland."

I did not say grey squirrels were native to the UK, I fully understand they are not.

I also pointed out that like the fox wolves and lynx avoid human contact wherever possible but like the fox will attack and kill humans if the circumstances dictate. The relatively small distance between human occupation in the UK including Scotland enforces more chances of encounters between man and beast including the problems encountered when the wolves take farmed animals which would inevitably happen.

You claim tigers and leopards in India are far more dangerous than wolves or lynx would be in Scotland but that shows a misunderstanding of animal behaviour on your part.

The potential for meeting a leopard or tiger in India in a situation where it would feel threatened is far less likely than such an occurrence a few years after the re-introduction of wolves or lynx in Scotland due to the distances involved between habitats.

I was not even envisaging wolves hunting humans but rather the encounters where a man and wolf come face to face and there is now escape route for the wolf.

In the UK people and animals live in close proximity at all times, even in seemingly desolate areas of the UK there are few areas remote from human occupation and practically none free from farmed animals.

A wolf may cover 30 miles a day looking for food but could cover 100 miles and more foraging. Much depends on the abundance of food and proximity of other packs.

The lynx would create its own problems as it would be in competion with the Scottish wild cat for food which is itself an endangered species, so should we introduce something to further endanger this animal?

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Why stop with wolves.... There's a whole host of endangered animals that could be let loose in the UK.

Hippos, giraffe, elephants, eagles...I would say vultures but I think we've got enough of them in London

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Although I think if we controlled our own species better, other species wouldn't need the extra management were constantly having to give them

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *icky999Man
over a year ago

warrington


"Why stop with wolves.... There's a whole host of endangered animals that could be let loose in the UK.

Hippos, giraffe, elephants, eagles...I would say vultures but I think we've got enough of them in London"

there's a two legged donkey on the loose in warrington. keep 'em peeled

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *inaTitzTV/TS
over a year ago

Titz Towers, North Notts

I think it's great. We can use them to control the EDL and so on....

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Why stop with wolves.... There's a whole host of endangered animals that could be let loose in the UK.

Hippos, giraffe, elephants, eagles...I would say vultures but I think we've got enough of them in London

there's a two legged donkey on the loose in warrington. keep 'em peeled "

One of those legs isnt a leg. but if you do come across this donkey her name is wonkey

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I think it's great. We can use them to control the EDL and so on.... "

hmmm isnt the idea of controlling groups of people facism

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It might make dogging a bit dangerous.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"It might make dogging a bit dangerous. "
.

Or even more adventurous!

At least it would bring to the end men declaring it's boring sat in laybys for hours

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *inaTitzTV/TS
over a year ago

Titz Towers, North Notts


"I think it's great. We can use them to control the EDL and so on....

hmmm isnt the idea of controlling groups of people facism "

See second comment

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"personally i just wish people would stop thinking they can and should control nature.

I totally agree, that is what rewilding is based upon, putting things right so nature takes charge again.

Its just another example of the human race deluding itself that it has any control over nature at all. The human race is very arrogant in my opinion.Its also a bit pointless and peice meal really.Just something some people can go "look what we did" its always about people.

We always have to show monetary value before people agree, unfortunately, rewilding is the best way forward for nature in the UK, sad that there is no wilderness in the UK anymore, nature reserves are too contrived, made mostly for humans to observe rather than for the animals and plants.

Hmm people often talk about nature and the natural environment like its something they are seperate from. If this experiment goes ahead it wont be long before there are safaris, poachers and hunting. Then no doubt someone will be attacked by a pack of wolves and we can start the debate all over again."

I understand your concerns, many people I've spoken too feel the same, but the Ecology in the UK is in a mess and needs sorting. There will be Safaris, but they will be under strict guidelines, as for hunting them, I would hope that would never happen, it is a long way off before we will be releasing wolves, at least 20 years or more, lynx could be released now if everyone was in agreement, the best model of success we have to go on is rewilding in Europe, which has been a very positive, including special green bridges for the animals to reduce road kills. We need to do something otherwise nature will never heal.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"It might make dogging a bit dangerous. "

Rename it Wolfing, lol

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"It might make dogging a bit dangerous.

Rename it Wolfing, lol"
Providing it only happens on a full moon

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"It might make dogging a bit dangerous.

Rename it Wolfing, lol Providing it only happens on a full moon "

Like when someone bends over and pulls their pants down?

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Much of the deer problem in scotland is dealt with by the sporting estates

It`s been proven that doesn`t work that`s why some estate owners welcome the reintroduction, humans are badly inefficient at control populations, and they weaken the strain by choosing strong healthy animals to shoot.

Despite the tongue in cheek replies earlier i would like to see the reintroduction of wolves alomg with wild boar and beavers. I think it would strengthen the biodiversity of scotland. "

(m replying)... bringing back the wild boar you are joking ?? Have you seen what a boar can do to a field ? Have you ever encoutered a boar ? I personal prefer meeting a pack of wolves then a boar ... In Switzerland boars moved back in from Poland in the past 40 years.. You think great.. have you had your car trashed by a 85kg boar running over the main road at night? Answer no.. I have..car write off 21 stiches and 1 month hospital... Ask a hunter in Italy/France/Germany/Austria or Switzerland what they think of boars..the answer will be always the same "Run for your fucking life"... Lynx and wolves avoid humans...boars don't !!!

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"

Not sure where you are getting your information from, but much is inaccurate, Grey Squirrels are not native to the UK and never were, they escaped from estates, Lynx have never attacked humans, unless humans are stupid enough to trap them, wolves will attack humans in extreme circumstances, but are actually afraid of us, and who can blame them, you would be very lucky to see one without an expert tracker, people in India live with Tigers and Leopard which are far more dangerous, and they don`t complain about reintroduction of these animals, rewilding in Europe has been very successful and as I said earlier, the domestic dog kills far more people than wolves ever have, we are not on their menu, they would have to be starving or rabib to risk hunting a human. One thing I do agree with you about is the unnatural landscape of the UK, but the Highlands is still a suitable habitat for wolves despite the massive deforestation, wolves live in a number of different habitats world wide and would easily adapt to life in the remote areas of scotland.

I did not say grey squirrels were native to the UK, I fully understand they are not.

I also pointed out that like the fox wolves and lynx avoid human contact wherever possible but like the fox will attack and kill humans if the circumstances dictate. The relatively small distance between human occupation in the UK including Scotland enforces more chances of encounters between man and beast including the problems encountered when the wolves take farmed animals which would inevitably happen.

You claim tigers and leopards in India are far more dangerous than wolves or lynx would be in Scotland but that shows a misunderstanding of animal behaviour on your part.

The potential for meeting a leopard or tiger in India in a situation where it would feel threatened is far less likely than such an occurrence a few years after the re-introduction of wolves or lynx in Scotland due to the distances involved between habitats.

I was not even envisaging wolves hunting humans but rather the encounters where a man and wolf come face to face and there is now escape route for the wolf.

In the UK people and animals live in close proximity at all times, even in seemingly desolate areas of the UK there are few areas remote from human occupation and practically none free from farmed animals.

A wolf may cover 30 miles a day looking for food but could cover 100 miles and more foraging. Much depends on the abundance of food and proximity of other packs.

The lynx would create its own problems as it would be in competion with the Scottish wild cat for food which is itself an endangered species, so should we introduce something to further endanger this animal?

"

All these potential problems are being looked into by conservationists and other people involved. Wolves are not as dangerous as people think, it is very unlikely that you would see one, let alone come face to face with one, much more understanding is needed before people condemn this idea.

I do understand animal behaviour as much as anyone, wolves do not hunt humans, these were stories past on by trappers to make themselves look brave, the same as whalers speaking of whales attacking ships, now we know this not to be true. Tigers and Leopards in India do hunt and kill humans, there is much documented evidence of this.

Livestock is a problem, but there have been many ways of dealing with this problem that have been successful, just takes work and time, and these measures should be put in place before any thought of release dates.

There is absolutely no evidence to suggest Foxes attack and kill humans, again this is just lies spread to justify their persecution.

Please understand, nobody is going to just release Lynx or Wolves into the UK, there is much research to be done, effects on people and their livelihoods, effects on other species, as you mentioned the scottish wildcat and so on. But there are many benefits, control of Deer numbers, leading to natural regeneration of our native forests, which in turn brings more habitat for endangered species.

There is much more research and work to be done, but I feel we can learn to live with these animals again, like our ancestors did hundreds of years ago, we made them extinct in the UK and destroyed most of their natural habitat, so now we can make amends and start correcting that massive mistake.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *icky999Man
over a year ago

warrington

theres turtles living in the wild in sthelens.

pizza boxes everywhere and groups of youths being attacked of a night

just sayin

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"theres turtles living in the wild in sthelens.

pizza boxes everywhere and groups of youths being attacked of a night

just sayin "

Took me a minute to get that, lol

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

While deer is now seen as a pest, the price of venison is quite cheap. Why isn't more being done to promote it as a meat source? It's healthy and gorgeous.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The thing with ecosystems is, there incredibly complex and you can't ever be sure how one little thing will change the big picture!

Islands are particularly susceptible due to the isolation of indigenous species!.

That said it can't be any fucking worse than fracking or airports.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"The thing with ecosystems is, there incredibly complex and you can't ever be sure how one little thing will change the big picture!

Islands are particularly susceptible due to the isolation of indigenous species!.

That said it can't be any fucking worse than fracking or airports."

Totally with you on Fracking and Airports, we have the research in Europe and Yellowstone to go on, positive effects mostly.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

While you are at it why not introduce birds of paradise, flamingo;s peacocks, e t c to brighton beach ? or have they all ready done that ?

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"While deer is now seen as a pest, the price of venison is quite cheap. Why isn't more being done to promote it as a meat source? It's healthy and gorgeous."
.

Everything is declared as a pest if there's no profit in it!

The only thing I know about deer is if you shoot one.... The other comes over to see what's wrong with its mate and then you can shoot that one as well... It was the same herd instinct that allowed the north american buffalo to be almost completely wiped out from there original 30 million number in a little under 30 years!

Humans really do excel at fucking things up

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

By releasing wolves that are truly wild, how do you control them?

You don't.

They will go where the best food source is.

Why chase a wild deer when they can head to the nearest farm and attack the stock?(a bit like an all you can eat buffet for the wolves!Farmers would be up in arms!

Sadly I just don't think we have the space here, although I understand the sentiment.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

There are already linx and other big cats, living in our countryside. They were fashionable as pets in the 1920's and 30's. Then due to licencing and ww2 rationing, many were set free rather than pts.

Many wouldn't have survived, due to having been reared in captivity, they lacked the ability to fend for themselves, but some survived over the yrs there have been numerous sitings, many faked or mistaken. But I have personally seen 2, up close, as part of a project to track them. Seen many more in photos, taken once their routes and habitats had been established. The project is part of the on going evidence collection in favour of reintroduction.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"While deer is now seen as a pest, the price of venison is quite cheap. Why isn't more being done to promote it as a meat source? It's healthy and gorgeous..

Everything is declared as a pest if there's no profit in it!

The only thing I know about deer is if you shoot one.... The other comes over to see what's wrong with its mate and then you can shoot that one as well... It was the same herd instinct that allowed the north american buffalo to be almost completely wiped out from there original 30 million number in a little under 30 years!

Humans really do excel at fucking things up "

But a lot of people (meat eaters!) won't eat it because of the Bambi factor. We should be eating more rabbit as well.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *icky999Man
over a year ago

warrington

we should introduce big cats aswell.

they're ggggreeeeat

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"While deer is now seen as a pest, the price of venison is quite cheap. Why isn't more being done to promote it as a meat source? It's healthy and gorgeous..

Everything is declared as a pest if there's no profit in it!

The only thing I know about deer is if you shoot one.... The other comes over to see what's wrong with its mate and then you can shoot that one as well... It was the same herd instinct that allowed the north american buffalo to be almost completely wiped out from there original 30 million number in a little under 30 years!

Humans really do excel at fucking things up

But a lot of people (meat eaters!) won't eat it because of the Bambi factor. We should be eating more rabbit as well. "
.

I don't disagree with you!

We waste way too much, squirrel tail anyone .

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"we should introduce big cats aswell.

they're ggggreeeeat"

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Apparently Guinea pig is quite nice as well. Pet shop or butchers? Which is. cheapest?

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"we should introduce big cats aswell.

they're ggggreeeeat

"

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Which woodlands are you thinking of? There is a forest at the end of my town. It's a lovely place to walk, cycle, picnic, shag... It would probably take half a day to walk from one end to the other. I'm not sure it's large enough to sustain a pack of wolves or Lynx and I am certain the local community would do everything to prevent it here, for fear their labradoodles would go missing.

I'd be interested to know which woodlands are being suggested?

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *oachman 9CoolMan
over a year ago

derby


"I wouldnt mind introducing wolves back into the uk as long as it is the uk. Im sure the romantic nimbyism of sheffield saying that scotland should accept wolves is well meant but as lomg as sheffield accept their share i am for it

Only certain areas would be suitable, the Highlands has been identified as remote enough to be suitable, Lynx could be released in loads of areas of the Uk because they are solitary and don`t roam as far as a Wolf pack, the main problem is Sheep."
When riber castle was operateing a small wildlife santuary near matlock in derbyshire, before the santuary closed Some years before lynx did presumably Escape from there I have never heard of any sightings or anything else..

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *oachman 9CoolMan
over a year ago

derby


"Much of the deer problem in scotland is dealt with by the sporting estates

It`s been proven that doesn`t work that`s why some estate owners welcome the reintroduction, humans are badly inefficient at control populations, and they weaken the strain by choosing strong healthy animals to shoot.

Despite the tongue in cheek replies earlier i would like to see the reintroduction of wolves alomg with wild boar and beavers. I think it would strengthen the biodiversity of scotland.

The reintroduction of White tailed Eagles has boosted the tourism in scotland by millions each year alone, so more reintroductions would be great for all, I`d certainly be seeing a lot more more of the Highlands.

"
wolves are not like wild boar, thou in circumstances they can be dangerous, or any of the other creatures you mention, they are predators which need lots of space and The more wolves the more space they Want and so on when you get bigger Packs of wolves and a lone human being Out in the wilds you have to consider and think would this be the right situation to be in when a easy meal might not always be around in harder times say the winter months, deer can run man could,nt just for the sake of wanting wolves on uk mainland is not fully justified for such times.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Much of the deer problem in scotland is dealt with by the sporting estates

It`s been proven that doesn`t work that`s why some estate owners welcome the reintroduction, humans are badly inefficient at control populations, and they weaken the strain by choosing strong healthy animals to shoot.

Despite the tongue in cheek replies earlier i would like to see the reintroduction of wolves alomg with wild boar and beavers. I think it would strengthen the biodiversity of scotland.

The reintroduction of White tailed Eagles has boosted the tourism in scotland by millions each year alone, so more reintroductions would be great for all, I`d certainly be seeing a lot more more of the Highlands.

wolves are not like wild boar, thou in circumstances they can be dangerous, or any of the other creatures you mention, they are predators which need lots of space and The more wolves the more space they Want and so on when you get bigger Packs of wolves and a lone human being Out in the wilds you have to consider and think would this be the right situation to be in when a easy meal might not always be around in harder times say the winter months, deer can run man could,nt just for the sake of wanting wolves on uk mainland is not fully justified for such times. "

How often is there likely to be a lone human in woods in the Scottish Highlands, in the winter months? More at risk of hyperthermia. There's being cautious, and there's being ridiculous.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes


"It would boost tourism. Lots of visitors to rural areas would boost local economies. Revenue for hunting licences and shooting parties would trickle down unto local economies."

I can't see that happening in this country. People even object killing grey squirrels, which really are vermin. Can't see them supporting wolf shooting parties

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes


"I wouldnt mind introducing wolves back into the uk as long as it is the uk. Im sure the romantic nimbyism of sheffield saying that scotland should accept wolves is well meant but as lomg as sheffield accept their share i am for it

Only certain areas would be suitable, the Highlands has been identified as remote enough to be suitable, Lynx could be released in loads of areas of the Uk because they are solitary and don`t roam as far as a Wolf pack, the main problem is Sheep."

Any one fancy a pint down at the good old 'Slaughtered Lamb'. Just make sure you stick to the path and don't cross the mores on your way home after.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Nature is like language... it is ever changing and it's very difficult to go back. We appear to be heading for a warmer climate. As such, critters that hide away in cargo are going to increasingly find our shores more and more habitable. So I fully expect us to see lethally poisonous spiders introduced via bananas or something. Is that wild enough for you? lol

What I believe is a greater challenge is not destroying the nature we already have. For example... mountain Gorrillas now live in only a tiny pocket of forest surrounded by farmland. We should work to push back that farm land and replant forests. Also over in central america a growing middle class are chopping their way through the rain forest with new housing estates, meaning that some wild animals like pumas, etc are finding it difficult to move up and down the landscape and are increasingly coming into contact with fearful homeowners.

Preserve what we've already got... for God's sake

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

It seems an attractive idea to me but I'd be cautious, as everytime we think we're doing something useful by introducing species: usually foreign species into new countries - it often has lots of unintended consequences. Think of all those plants and animals that have become pests or destroyed other native creatures.

I can see there being some great benefits but would prefer woolly mammoths.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

I wouldn't worry.

It's only rabid wolves that attack humans.

I don't think there's an antidote is there ?

Hmmm makes note to self. No hols in Scotland after the introduction of wolves.

All that fucking howling.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *icentiousCouple
over a year ago

Up on them there hills

Think the howling comes from men in kilts sitting on thistles.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No cougars? That's disappointing.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Welcome to Utopia

Gimp"

I've lost count of all the stains on the carpet that you're responsible for, Gimp!

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *icky999Man
over a year ago

warrington


"Nature is like language... it is ever changing and it's very difficult to go back. We appear to be heading for a warmer climate. As such, critters that hide away in cargo are going to increasingly find our shores more and more habitable. So I fully expect us to see lethally poisonous spiders introduced via bananas or something. Is that wild enough for you? lol

What I believe is a greater challenge is not destroying the nature we already have. For example... mountain Gorrillas now live in only a tiny pocket of forest surrounded by farmland. We should work to push back that farm land and replant forests. Also over in central america a growing middle class are chopping their way through the rain forest with new housing estates, meaning that some wild animals like pumas, etc are finding it difficult to move up and down the landscape and are increasingly coming into contact with fearful homeowners.

Preserve what we've already got... for God's sake "

move gorillas to babana plantation, eat spiders

I'll be along later to sort politics and religion out

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *educedWoman
over a year ago

Birmingham


"How do people feel about the reintroduction of Wolves and Lynx into the UK? they would balance the Ecology as top predators and have been missing for hundreds of years, thanks to humans as usual. There are more human deaths caused in Europe by domestic dogs than by wild animals, and yet we allow them to roam free around housing estates etc, so I fail to see why people are against Wolves in the Scottish Highlands. I would love it personally."

Wild housing estate dogs eh? The dingos of suburbia.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"It seems an attractive idea to me but I'd be cautious, as everytime we think we're doing something useful by introducing species: usually foreign species into new countries - it often has lots of unintended consequences. Think of all those plants and animals that have become pests or destroyed other native creatures.

I can see there being some great benefits but would prefer woolly mammoths.

"
except these are not foreign species!!

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"I wouldn't worry.

It's only rabid wolves that attack humans.

I don't think there's an antidote is there ?

Hmmm makes note to self. No hols in Scotland after the introduction of wolves.

All that fucking howling."

There is no Rabies in the UK, and they wouldn't introduce rabid wolves, the howling is lovely, and they only do it occasionally.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"It seems an attractive idea to me but I'd be cautious, as everytime we think we're doing something useful by introducing species: usually foreign species into new countries - it often has lots of unintended consequences. Think of all those plants and animals that have become pests or destroyed other native creatures.

I can see there being some great benefits but would prefer woolly mammoths.

"

Wolves and Lynx were native until humans killed them all, it is the removal of them that has caused problems in the ecosystem.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"It would boost tourism. Lots of visitors to rural areas would boost local economies. Revenue for hunting licences and shooting parties would trickle down unto local economies.

I can't see that happening in this country. People even object killing grey squirrels, which really are vermin. Can't see them supporting wolf shooting parties"

The Wolves and Lynx would be protected by laws, that doesn't always save animals though.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Wolves and Lynx were native until humans killed them all, it is the removal of them that has caused problems in the ecosystem."

I think it is about time we stopped pretending to be Gods and interfering with nature. If they are extinct in our country, leave them that way. Nature is bigger than us.

Have you not learnt anything from the 167 films called Jurassic Park? It never ends well.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *obka3Couple
over a year ago

bournemouth

There is NO natural landscape in the uk, it has all been shaped or managed by man one way or another for thousands of years. If wolves were going to be set free without any predators they would breed freely and numbers would increase pretty quickly, they would then increase their area and before long would encroach into habituated areas. Wolves are hunters and will kill anything they can including humans, unlike foxes they are physically more than a match for us and wouldnt hesitate in attacking any human they came into contact with, we are far easier to kill than a deer that can run.

Those that say nature should be left to itself and it will be ok are just deluded, the strongest will dominate at the expense of the weakest.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"

Wolves and Lynx were native until humans killed them all, it is the removal of them that has caused problems in the ecosystem.

I think it is about time we stopped pretending to be Gods and interfering with nature. If they are extinct in our country, leave them that way. Nature is bigger than us.

Have you not learnt anything from the 167 films called Jurassic Park? It never ends well."

But this is righting our wrongs that resulted from us playing God, surely that isn't a bad thing. This is reality.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I actually think this a lot.

Living in a safe part of the world we've kind of lost our survival instinct, or rather, our will to survive.

Release the lions.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"There is NO natural landscape in the uk, it has all been shaped or managed by man one way or another for thousands of years. If wolves were going to be set free without any predators they would breed freely and numbers would increase pretty quickly, they would then increase their area and before long would encroach into habituated areas. Wolves are hunters and will kill anything they can including humans, unlike foxes they are physically more than a match for us and wouldnt hesitate in attacking any human they came into contact with, we are far easier to kill than a deer that can run.

Those that say nature should be left to itself and it will be ok are just deluded, the strongest will dominate at the expense of the weakest. "

Wolves do not attack humans as a rule, there is no evidence to suggest that, they have attack humans, but they don't seek us out as prey, they would rather run or hide. Are you saying humans have some sort of right to destroy all life on earth because they are the strongest?

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *obka3Couple
over a year ago

bournemouth

[Removed by poster at 09/07/15 20:38:06]

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Wolves and Lynx were native until humans killed them all, it is the removal of them that has caused problems in the ecosystem.

I think it is about time we stopped pretending to be Gods and interfering with nature. If they are extinct in our country, leave them that way. Nature is bigger than us.

Have you not learnt anything from the 167 films called Jurassic Park? It never ends well.

But this is righting our wrongs that resulted from us playing God, surely that isn't a bad thing. This is reality."

I am not sure why you use the word "reality." It does not add anything to your argument.

Reintroducing species is just more interference. It will alter the ecological balance further.

Leave nature alone.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *obka3Couple
over a year ago

bournemouth


"There is NO natural landscape in the uk, it has all been shaped or managed by man one way or another for thousands of years. If wolves were going to be set free without any predators they would breed freely and numbers would increase pretty quickly, they would then increase their area and before long would encroach into habituated areas. Wolves are hunters and will kill anything they can including humans, unlike foxes they are physically more than a match for us and wouldnt hesitate in attacking any human they came into contact with, we are far easier to kill than a deer that can run.

Those that say nature should be left to itself and it will be ok are just deluded, the strongest will dominate at the expense of the weakest.

Wolves do not attack humans as a rule, there is no evidence to suggest that, they have attack humans, but they don't seek us out as prey, they would rather run or hide. Are you saying humans have some sort of right to destroy all life on earth because they are the strongest?"

Not sure you mean by "seek" us out, no they might not head into town unless driven by starvation but any lone human would be very easy prey for a pack of wolves and far easier than a deer.

In my work I encourage many forms of wildlife for mine and others benefit, I see first hand how the laws of nature works, the biggest wins 99% of the time, humans interfere to encourage what we want to see, IE trapping magpies to allow song birds to thrive etc

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *avebi48Man
over a year ago

Lordswood


"

Wolves and Lynx were native until humans killed them all, it is the removal of them that has caused problems in the ecosystem.

I think it is about time we stopped pretending to be Gods and interfering with nature. If they are extinct in our country, leave them that way. Nature is bigger than us.

Have you not learnt anything from the 167 films called Jurassic Park? It never ends well.

But this is righting our wrongs that resulted from us playing God, surely that isn't a bad thing. This is reality.

I am not sure why you use the word "reality." It does not add anything to your argument.

Reintroducing species is just more interference. It will alter the ecological balance further.

Leave nature alone."

so by this argument, should we continue to fish for cod until they're gone? Or do the right thing and back off so stocks recover and balance is restored?

Everything man does interferes in some way, we're not the strongest species but for sure the most destructive and in many ways arrogantly so. A lot of lessons have been learned over the last decades, yet we continue to decimate other species like we are the only ones with a right to exist

If we're able to re-introduce a species why not? Even better, let them roam into some of the inner city wilderness areas, that'd keep the yoof off the streets and save a fortune in policing costs

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross


"I wouldn't worry.

It's only rabid wolves that attack humans.

I don't think there's an antidote is there ?

Hmmm makes note to self. No hols in Scotland after the introduction of wolves.

All that fucking howling.

There is no Rabies in the UK, and they wouldn't introduce rabid wolves, the howling is lovely, and they only do it occasionally. "

There's no rabies in the U.K. cos we got rid of the wolves.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *oachman 9CoolMan
over a year ago

derby


"Much of the deer problem in scotland is dealt with by the sporting estates

It`s been proven that doesn`t work that`s why some estate owners welcome the reintroduction, humans are badly inefficient at control populations, and they weaken the strain by choosing strong healthy animals to shoot.

Despite the tongue in cheek replies earlier i would like to see the reintroduction of wolves alomg with wild boar and beavers. I think it would strengthen the biodiversity of scotland.

The reintroduction of White tailed Eagles has boosted the tourism in scotland by millions each year alone, so more reintroductions would be great for all, I`d certainly be seeing a lot more more of the Highlands.

wolves are not like wild boar, thou in circumstances they can be dangerous, or any of the other creatures you mention, they are predators which need lots of space and The more wolves the more space they Want and so on when you get bigger Packs of wolves and a lone human being Out in the wilds you have to consider and think would this be the right situation to be in when a easy meal might not always be around in harder times say the winter months, deer can run man could,nt just for the sake of wanting wolves on uk mainland is not fully justified for such times.

How often is there likely to be a lone human in woods in the Scottish Highlands, in the winter months? More at risk of hyperthermia. There's being cautious, and there's being ridiculous. "
The possibilitys still there a lone walker or someone of the beaten track even a family you just can,t say it could,nt Happen and the Idea of large packs of wolves running around anywhere even in the remote highlands to me is still a Issue that needs to be addressed, If it ended up the wolves haveing to be culled that would be alful but quite possible if things went wrong, at the least drugged/by dart before being lifted and Introduced elsewhere, you have to look at the bigger picture not one you can fantasize about, you don,t mess about with wild animals because thats what they are and in pack mode wild and very dangerous, the last wolves we had in the uk were shot around 1700 whoever thought of bringing them back again were they naturalists? conservationists? generally I,m all for conservation but not for the wolf here.... sorry.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

The 'problem' is that the vast majority of the land area in the UK is a man made construct - the UK ought mostly to be covered with temperate rainforest, but ever since man has been here, he has been clearing it, many of our 'protected' and rare habitats and faina would never have come about had man not cut the trees down....so what is reasonable?

A lot of my grazing is on SSSI that cannot be ploughed - the landscape looks like it has since sheep became a commodity (possibly around the middle ages), yet it is right next to a nature reserve that is hardly grazed to protect butterflies....

Is there a 'right' way to do it?

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *obka3Couple
over a year ago

bournemouth


"The 'problem' is that the vast majority of the land area in the UK is a man made construct - the UK ought mostly to be covered with temperate rainforest, but ever since man has been here, he has been clearing it, many of our 'protected' and rare habitats and faina would never have come about had man not cut the trees down....so what is reasonable?

A lot of my grazing is on SSSI that cannot be ploughed - the landscape looks like it has since sheep became a commodity (possibly around the middle ages), yet it is right next to a nature reserve that is hardly grazed to protect butterflies....

Is there a 'right' way to do it?"

If your experience of some of the conservation bodies is the same as mine then they havent a clue about what really happens in the countryside, their brains are as wooly as their coats

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford


"The 'problem' is that the vast majority of the land area in the UK is a man made construct - the UK ought mostly to be covered with temperate rainforest, but ever since man has been here, he has been clearing it, many of our 'protected' and rare habitats and faina would never have come about had man not cut the trees down....so what is reasonable?

A lot of my grazing is on SSSI that cannot be ploughed - the landscape looks like it has since sheep became a commodity (possibly around the middle ages), yet it is right next to a nature reserve that is hardly grazed to protect butterflies....

Is there a 'right' way to do it?

If your experience of some of the conservation bodies is the same as mine then they havent a clue about what really happens in the countryside, their brains are as wooly as their coats "

Their down (the one that backs onto mine) is rapidly becoming choked with the bitter grasses, gorse and blackthorn. They have sheep to graze it that definitely have little to do with the southern downlands (Herdwicks, and I think some Lonks), wheras mine is that close-cropped sheep downland that has been in folk-memory for centuries. You could contrast that to the rest of what used to be 'down' that is now arable land...

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"

Wolves and Lynx were native until humans killed them all, it is the removal of them that has caused problems in the ecosystem.

I think it is about time we stopped pretending to be Gods and interfering with nature. If they are extinct in our country, leave them that way. Nature is bigger than us.

Have you not learnt anything from the 167 films called Jurassic Park? It never ends well.

But this is righting our wrongs that resulted from us playing God, surely that isn't a bad thing. This is reality.

I am not sure why you use the word "reality." It does not add anything to your argument.

Reintroducing species is just more interference. It will alter the ecological balance further.

Leave nature alone."

Reality was aimed at your Jurassic Park reference, we are talking about reintroduction of species that we wiped out, in order to address ecological imbalances created by us in the first place, it is not playing God, it is about a small part of the world ecosystem that supports all life on earth, that is fact, not idealistic, but actual fact, it has worked well for a number of species across the globe and has improved habitats. If the people who have for decades helped the natural world hadn't done what they have done, it would be unimaginably worse than it is now.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *arry247Couple
over a year ago

Wakefield

Wolves were intentionally wiped out because they were killing sheep and digging up buried remains, it was no accidental species extinction through thoughtless over hunting.

Even the “experts” who propose the re-introduction of the wolf to Scotland admit farmers would have to be recompensed for the deaths of livestock taken by wolves.

Red Deer would not be a problem in the UK if they had not been re-introduced by man in the 1950s, roll on 70 years and think what animal could we re-introduce to control the wolf population that has become unmanageable?

As for Roe Deer if it was not for the efforts of man the Roe Deer population would be low and not need to be managed. But interference from man has re-introduced German Roe Deer into Norfolk and breeding schemes and escapes from captivity have strengthened the populations of counties such as Sussex, Surrey, Berkshire, Wiltshire, Hampshire, and Dorset.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Wolves were intentionally wiped out because they were killing sheep and digging up buried remains, it was no accidental species extinction through thoughtless over hunting.

Even the “experts” who propose the re-introduction of the wolf to Scotland admit farmers would have to be recompensed for the deaths of livestock taken by wolves.

Red Deer would not be a problem in the UK if they had not been re-introduced by man in the 1950s, roll on 70 years and think what animal could we re-introduce to control the wolf population that has become unmanageable?

As for Roe Deer if it was not for the efforts of man the Roe Deer population would be low and not need to be managed. But interference from man has re-introduced German Roe Deer into Norfolk and breeding schemes and escapes from captivity have strengthened the populations of counties such as Sussex, Surrey, Berkshire, Wiltshire, Hampshire, and Dorset.

"

We do not have a great history when it comes to trying to interfere, do we?

Let us concentrate on preserving what we still have rather than trying to reintroduce species that no longer exist in our land.

We could of course introduce non-native species. Like Japanese Knot. Lovely stuff.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Wolves were intentionally wiped out because they were killing sheep and digging up buried remains, it was no accidental species extinction through thoughtless over hunting.

Even the “experts” who propose the re-introduction of the wolf to Scotland admit farmers would have to be recompensed for the deaths of livestock taken by wolves.

Red Deer would not be a problem in the UK if they had not been re-introduced by man in the 1950s, roll on 70 years and think what animal could we re-introduce to control the wolf population that has become unmanageable?

As for Roe Deer if it was not for the efforts of man the Roe Deer population would be low and not need to be managed. But interference from man has re-introduced German Roe Deer into Norfolk and breeding schemes and escapes from captivity have strengthened the populations of counties such as Sussex, Surrey, Berkshire, Wiltshire, Hampshire, and Dorset.

We do not have a great history when it comes to trying to interfere, do we?

Let us concentrate on preserving what we still have rather than trying to reintroduce species that no longer exist in our land.

We could of course introduce non-native species. Like Japanese Knot. Lovely stuff."

But whilst we have and still are interfering in a negative way, surely trying positive ways to correct some of that should be explored.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

We do not have a great history when it comes to trying to interfere, do we?

Let us concentrate on preserving what we still have rather than trying to reintroduce species that no longer exist in our land.

We could of course introduce non-native species. Like Japanese Knot. Lovely stuff.

But whilst we have and still are interfering in a negative way, surely trying positive ways to correct some of that should be explored. "

Go on. Ignore the lessons of history. After the wolves have been reintroduced, it may well be difficult to eradicate them again when we find the decision was flawed and they have upset the eco chain.

How about a woolly mammoth or two to trample the wolves?

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *icky999Man
over a year ago

warrington

your thinking of werewolves?

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"

We do not have a great history when it comes to trying to interfere, do we?

Let us concentrate on preserving what we still have rather than trying to reintroduce species that no longer exist in our land.

We could of course introduce non-native species. Like Japanese Knot. Lovely stuff.

But whilst we have and still are interfering in a negative way, surely trying positive ways to correct some of that should be explored.

Go on. Ignore the lessons of history. After the wolves have been reintroduced, it may well be difficult to eradicate them again when we find the decision was flawed and they have upset the eco chain.

How about a woolly mammoth or two to trample the wolves?"

That is not a true history lesson , it is based on paranoia, they wont just be released into the wild, they will be radio collared and monitored continuously, farmers and landowners will be kept informed etc. There are a lot of problems to be addressed, that's why if it does go ahead, they have predicted a target release date of about 20 years or so away, this is being researched and taken very seriously by a lot of different organisations, Wolves are nowhere near as bad as people paint them to be, yes there are risks as with any reintroduction, but we are all addressing those and taking them very seriously.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

That is not a true history lesson , it is based on paranoia, they wont just be released into the wild, they will be radio collared and monitored continuously, farmers and landowners will be kept informed etc. There are a lot of problems to be addressed, that's why if it does go ahead, they have predicted a target release date of about 20 years or so away, this is being researched and taken very seriously by a lot of different organisations, Wolves are nowhere near as bad as people paint them to be, yes there are risks as with any reintroduction, but we are all addressing those and taking them very seriously."

Well, as far as I can tell, history does not tell a great story in favour of our meddling. It does not seem like paranoia to me.

And are you addressing the risks? What are the risks? Are you involved with this project?

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"

That is not a true history lesson , it is based on paranoia, they wont just be released into the wild, they will be radio collared and monitored continuously, farmers and landowners will be kept informed etc. There are a lot of problems to be addressed, that's why if it does go ahead, they have predicted a target release date of about 20 years or so away, this is being researched and taken very seriously by a lot of different organisations, Wolves are nowhere near as bad as people paint them to be, yes there are risks as with any reintroduction, but we are all addressing those and taking them very seriously.

Well, as far as I can tell, history does not tell a great story in favour of our meddling. It does not seem like paranoia to me.

And are you addressing the risks? What are the risks? Are you involved with this project?"

I'm only involved with a group that support the project, we try to raise awareness and report back public reaction, our meddling in the past has been a disaster a lot of the time, but Europe and Us wolf projects have shown great results.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

I'm only involved with a group that support the project, we try to raise awareness and report back public reaction, our meddling in the past has been a disaster a lot of the time, but Europe and Us wolf projects have shown great results."

It is impossible to know but the best sources suggest that the last wolf alive in the UK was seen in 1680. Yes, 1680. You would be introducing a non-native species. How the heck do you research or predict the effect on our environment. You could microchip or collar a few, sure, but they will have little wolf babies. Leave it alone. Why meddle further?

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *icky999Man
over a year ago

warrington

"aaaargh aaaaaaargh! britains overrun with crocagorilla pigs! we only tried to change what once went wrong!!"

sam becket cira 2019

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *arry247Couple
over a year ago

Wakefield


"

I'm only involved with a group that support the project, we try to raise awareness and report back public reaction, our meddling in the past has been a disaster a lot of the time, but Europe and Us wolf projects have shown great results."

Holding up Europe and the USA as examples for the UK to follow shows how flawed the thinking behind the project is.

There is no similarity between the wide open wildernesses of the USA and the restricted wild areas in Scotland and the UK

Since the compensation scheme started in 1987 over $1,400,000 has been paid to owners of livestock proven to have been killed by wolves, imagine what the costs would be in the UK where wolves and livestock would be in close proximity.

Part of the benefit in the USA from the re-introduction of wolves is the reduction of coyote population in the areas the wolves run but the UK would not benefit from this as we didn’t have any coyotes in Scotland last time I looked.

In Europe the situation is different as there are already large carnivores in the wild so the increase of population of wolves does not have such a dramatic effect as re-introduction would in a country which has no large carnivores.

In addition human population density is lower in the countries of Europe that have wolf packs

In Scotland the wolf would have no competition and no enemies other than man, not so in either the USA or Europe.

There is no ecological advantage to be gained, there is no fear of wolves becoming extinct, to justify the re-introduction and much to be lost.

From livestock to salmon the wolf will take sheep, horse, cattle and fish, there is no reason to assume they will solely feed on deer.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

There is no ecological advantage to be gained, there is no fear of wolves becoming extinct, to justify the re-introduction and much to be lost.

From livestock to salmon the wolf will take sheep, horse, cattle and fish, there is no reason to assume they will solely feed on deer.

"

I am sure that the OP's awareness raising has included intimate conversations with Scottish farmers. And citizens. We have no recent experience of wolves in our country but if Wiki is to be believed ...

"In Scotland, during the reign of James VI, wolves were considered such a threat to travellers that special houses called spittals were erected on the highways for protection.[9] In Sutherland, wolves dug up graves so frequently that the inhabitants of Eddrachillis resorted to burying their dead on the island of Handa, Scotland.[1]"

Lovely, eh? I am all for the encouragement of nature but I am not for the reintroduction of this long gone species. I don't think it would be beneficial for anyone or anything.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Personally, I think it's a great idea & definitely not before time, - but I find the 'don't mess with nature' argument 'against' re-introduction to be laughable!

I was reading that Pine Martens, which had become extinct in Ireland, mainly due to fox bating were re-introduced 7 or 8 years ago & guess what? - grey squirrel numbers are decreasing whilst red squirrel numbers are increasing!

There's a difference between re balancing nature & messing with it!

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Personally, I think it's a great idea & definitely not before time, - but I find the 'don't mess with nature' argument 'against' re-introduction to be laughable!

I was reading that Pine Martens, which had become extinct in Ireland, mainly due to fox bating were re-introduced 7 or 8 years ago & guess what? - grey squirrel numbers are decreasing whilst red squirrel numbers are increasing!

There's a difference between re balancing nature & messing with it!

"

Were they extinct? I know they have had a resurgence.

And have they been extinct since 1680?

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Personally, I think it's a great idea & definitely not before time, - but I find the 'don't mess with nature' argument 'against' re-introduction to be laughable!

I was reading that Pine Martens, which had become extinct in Ireland, mainly due to fox bating were re-introduced 7 or 8 years ago & guess what? - grey squirrel numbers are decreasing whilst red squirrel numbers are increasing!

There's a difference between re balancing nature & messing with it!

Were they extinct? I know they have had a resurgence.

And have they been extinct since 1680?"

According to the article that I read, yes.

They've been continuously finding grey squirrel DNA in Pine Marten faeces, hence the increase in the red squirrel population.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Personally, I think it's a great idea & definitely not before time, - but I find the 'don't mess with nature' argument 'against' re-introduction to be laughable!

I was reading that Pine Martens, which had become extinct in Ireland, mainly due to fox bating were re-introduced 7 or 8 years ago & guess what? - grey squirrel numbers are decreasing whilst red squirrel numbers are increasing!

There's a difference between re balancing nature & messing with it!

Were they extinct? I know they have had a resurgence.

And have they been extinct since 1680?

According to the article that I read, yes.

They've been continuously finding grey squirrel DNA in Pine Marten faeces, hence the increase in the red squirrel population."

Since 1680?

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *icky999Man
over a year ago

warrington

yor thinking of fat boy slim? he was in the housemartins in the 90's?

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"yor thinking of fat boy slim? he was in the housemartins in the 90's? "
on the subject of faeces .....

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 
 

By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"yor thinking of fat boy slim? he was in the housemartins in the 90's? "

You`re a daft one mate,lol

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
Post new Message to Thread
back to top