FabSwingers.com forum: Armistace Protests

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

So, whilst the rest of us ignore the politics and show our respect for those that have fought to defend and protect our country and our liberties, Muslims Against Crusades decide to burn the emblem that has come to symbolise our respect for those that we remember and marching on before clashing with our police.

I recognise there are a few debates circulating recently about the power of protest and I'm a big believer in protecting our rights and in allowing everyone the freedom of speech...but should this be allowed, does it not incite hatred?

our soldiers fight to protect our rights and have actually allowed these protesters the freedom to protest. I can't think of a greater disrespect

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I agree with you - and yet, I wonder what teh way forward should be. Violence will always breed more violence,hatred will nourish hatred. I dont know what the answer is but I believe "eye for an eye" does not work.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

One word .......Sad

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

as you say,others died so they can protest.

celtic fans held up banner that some found distasteful.

Louis on x factor wore a poppy the last two shows,mary did the first week but not the second. was wearing it costing her irish votes?

i wore a poppy and observed the silence out of respect as i do every year but its not compulsory.

and i detest the EDL but the member who tried to jump the barrier and attack the protesters..good try fella

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As an ex-forces person I have no time or respect for these people

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"as you say,others died so they can protest.

celtic fans held up banner that some found distasteful.

Louis on x factor wore a poppy the last two shows,mary did the first week but not the second. was wearing it costing her irish votes?

i wore a poppy and observed the silence out of respect as i do every year but its not compulsory.

and i detest the EDL but the member who tried to jump the barrier and attack the protesters..good try fella"

I don't watch x-factor so wouldn't have noticed that, but shame on them if that was the case.

2 minutes once a year is very little...I actually had to silence some men in our office who continued talking through it.

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By *ashful BazMan
over a year ago

poole dorset

"As an ex-forces person I have no time or respect for these people"

Quite agree, if they do not like it, show them the door!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Totally agree. I am having to bite my tongue on this. I can see me getting banned otherwise.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Totally agree. I am having to bite my tongue on this. I can see me getting banned otherwise.

it is an emotive issue and trust me, whatever you're thinking I am totally in agreement

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By *iewMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Angus & Findhorn

they should be allowed to protest but burning symbols of remberence is NOT RIGHT and they should have been stopped then.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Showed this post to my partner..he travels loads in Europe and lived long abroad, but is a Yorkshire man through and through. He says do it like the French.. if someone burns a French flag and preaches hate against France..they are packed up and sent back to the countries they came from...end of story.. Maybe they are right? H.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Showed this post to my partner..he travels loads in Europe and lived long abroad, but is a Yorkshire man through and through. He says do it like the French.. if someone burns a French flag and preaches hate against France..they are packed up and sent back to the countries they came from...end of story.. Maybe they are right? H. "

Should be like that here

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Should be like that here"

there's been a lot of talk about how the french protest, especially against their government and how we should follow their lead.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Freedom of Speech is the foundation stone of democracy. Notwithstanding the politics, rights and wrongs of recent wars/conflicts it is what our Armed Forces fight and die for. If not our own then someone else's.

However, with that freedom of speech, expression, thought and belief comes a massive responsibility. A responsibility not to abuse the privilige, not to use that hard fought for freedom to incite hatred and provoke violence and certainly not to use it to disrespect those who have given their lives that we may enjoy this freedom.

It speaks volumes for the tolerance and nobility of the people of these islands that the disrespectful, disgraceful and hate filled protests today were not met with wholesale violence and rioting.

It also speaks volumes for our beleaguered Police Force who, unarmed, maintained order and further protected the sanctity of free speech. There are many places in todays world where the Police and the Military would have swiftly, brutally, mercilessly and murderously quashed such a demonstration and the world wouldn't have skipped a beat.

'At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them'.

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"Freedom of Speech is the foundation stone of democracy. Notwithstanding the politics, rights and wrongs of recent wars/conflicts it is what our Armed Forces fight and die for. If not our own then someone else's.

It speaks volumes for the tolerance and nobility of the people of these islands that the disrespectful, disgraceful and hate filled protests today were not met with wholesale violence and rioting.

I took out the last line before anyone asks as the point made is a brilliant one without it and i don't want the conversation to be soley about rememberance and about the general conversation.....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If it wasn't for the people who died for freedom,then there wouldn't be any Muslims in this country.

Britain would be under the Nazi's and Muslims,especially fanatical extremists would have ended up in gas ovens.

Instead of burning poppies, these protesters should be among the first to sing their praises.

Do as the French do and kick these scum out!

XXXX

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If it wasn't for the people who died for freedom,then there wouldn't be any Muslims in this country.

Britain would be under the Nazi's and Muslims,especially fanatical extremists would have ended up in gas ovens.

Instead of burning poppies, these protesters should be among the first to sing their praises.

Do as the French do and kick these scum out!

XXXX"

Where would you kick them out to? Back to where they were born?

Glasgow? Newcastle? Leeds? Bradford? Derby? Leicester? London?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Great post hornsters. I haven't quoted it as it's already up there for people to read but I agree with you wholeheartedly. Our society is secure enough to allow extremists to air their _iews and burn a few poppies. So what. Those being remembered on Armistace Day are remembered by those that respect and love them for the sacrifices they have made.

Where do we draw the line when we prevent freedom of expression? A line has to be drawn somewhere and the law applied to all. We can't pick and choose who the law can be applied to and who it can't.

Only when they step over the line and break the law can we act and prosecute them, but even in some extreme cases the police have to act in the wider interests of the general public and the law in how they quell a riot, violent demonstration or cases like extreme muslims publicly baying for blood.

I'm quite sure that their faces are filmed, their names recorded and a nice little database somewhere deep within MI5/6 is quietly storing them all up.

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By *amschwingerzCouple
over a year ago

West

Absolute disgrace...and they wonder why they feel so many in this country are anti muslim...

Two things...funny how the police didnt nick any of them...doesnt look good for PR does it..

Andwhy didnt they main news channels show it?...I have no time for the EDL...well certainly not all the time they have idiots in their ranks giving it Nazi salutes and the normal 'rent a row' brigade who just turn up for a game of chase with the police when their football team is playing away...

I bet they wouldnt have allowed a load of whites to protest against a muslim group...

If the government dont act on these sort of protests soon there is going to be serious trouble on the streets..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If it wasn't for the people who died for freedom,then there wouldn't be any Muslims in this country.

Britain would be under the Nazi's and Muslims,especially fanatical extremists would have ended up in gas ovens.

Instead of burning poppies, these protesters should be among the first to sing their praises.

Do as the French do and kick these scum out!

XXXX

Where would you kick them out to? Back to where they were born?

Glasgow? Newcastle? Leeds? Bradford? Derby? Leicester? London?"

Simple,any radical Muslim country.

The sort of life style they seem to yearn for,it would obviously be doing them a kindness!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

".......Two things...funny how the police didnt nick any of them...doesnt look good for PR does it..

........... "

Have they actually broken any law?

We may wholeheartedly disapprove of what they did (I certainly do!) but I wouldn't want to live in a society where freedom to protest - even in support of a supposed cause I abhor - was taken away just because most people disagree with what they're doing.

I want people to be free to march in favour of and against abortion. I want people to be able to campaign for and against the reintroduction of capital punishment. I want people to be allowed to take to the streets in support of and in opposition to Scottish Independence. Even though I have strongly held _iews on all these subjects (and more).

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By *amschwingerzCouple
over a year ago

West

It speaks volumes for the tolerance and nobility of the people of these islands that the disrespectful, disgraceful and hate filled protests today were not met with wholesale violence and rioting.

It also speaks volumes that people are not allowed to do anything about it for fear of being branded a racist fascist Nazi..it also speaks volumes that people have more or less given up and excepted the fact that this is how it is and this is how its going to stay..

As for freedom of speech...it would be interesting to see how much freedom of speech was allowed if the situation was reversed...my guess would be zero...amazing how football supporters face a life ban from clubs and criminal prosecution for running on a pitch...or calling opposing supporters wankers..thats after the police have cracked a few over the head..affray and incitement are very often used against football supporters..but why not against those people today????????...

I detest any form of racism especially racist bullies..ok people can have _iews..and opinions but these people really aint doing racial harmony any favours.

I dont like the EDL ..I dont trust them..and I am very sceptical of the way they appear to use black guys and people from other races as token members..all fighting one cause...but they will start to gain a lot of strength and popularity if there are more repeats of days like this

This world can be such a sad place sometimes..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If it wasn't for the people who died for freedom,then there wouldn't be any Muslims in this country.

Britain would be under the Nazi's and Muslims,especially fanatical extremists would have ended up in gas ovens.

Instead of burning poppies, these protesters should be among the first to sing their praises.

Do as the French do and kick these scum out!

XXXX

Where would you kick them out to? Back to where they were born?

Glasgow? Newcastle? Leeds? Bradford? Derby? Leicester? London?

Simple,any radical Muslim country.

The sort of life style they seem to yearn for,it would obviously be doing them a kindness!"

Just any radical Muslim country at random?

Maybe there'd be an alphabetical list and the first guy would go to a country beginning with A. The next person would go to a country beginning with B and so on.

Maybe we could have a select list of particularly oppressive Muslim regimes where people we especially didn't like could be sent. There could be special welcoming committees to greet them. The women could be taken straight off for ritual circumcision or a good flogging - just to concentrate the mind.

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By *amschwingerzCouple
over a year ago

West

".......Two things...funny how the police didnt nick any of them...doesnt look good for PR does it..

Have they actually broken any law?

Yes..Incitement

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

Camswing.....your post is spot on.....thanks for that, saves me typing.

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By *uro anchorMan
over a year ago

Coventry

just got in from our local rememberance parrade.. so proud to see all the people turn up to show respect for those who have fought and are fighting for us... who really cares about those that dont.. always a great day to be in bedworth...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

".......Two things...funny how the police didnt nick any of them...doesnt look good for PR does it..

Have they actually broken any law?

Yes..Incitement"

Did they? Was anyone actually incited to violence? Lots of people, including me, were made very angry about it but it didn't incite me to violence.

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By *amschwingerzCouple
over a year ago

West

".......Two things...funny how the police didnt nick any of them...doesnt look good for PR does it..

Have they actually broken any law?

Yes..Incitement

Did they? Was anyone actually incited to violence? Lots of people, including me, were made very angry about it but it didn't incite me to violence."

You might have reacted differently though voyeur if you had been there..the word ''potential''' always plays a part...what they did could have so easily sparked a riot..

I would guess that the majority of people who have expressed opions on this on here and other sites are probably quite mild mannered and not at all racist...the thing is a lot of these people are now saying enoughs enough..these are the situations that feed the BNP...they must have been loving it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

".......Two things...funny how the police didnt nick any of them...doesnt look good for PR does it..

...........

Have they actually broken any law?

Just because they may not have broken "the written law",doesn't mean to say they didn't commit public outrage.

There used to be a law about behaviour likely to incite a riot,surely they come under that.

Also many people would probably also agree with some, if not all, of the protests you mention.

However, those protests are not designed to inflame public opinion as the Armistice protest was, it was an absolute outrage and deserved to be dealt with accordingly.R

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serious_Crime_Act_2007

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

didn't thin it was called incitement anymore...but encouraging.

I was certainly encouraged!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Should be like that here

there's been a lot of talk about how the french protest, especially against their government and how we should follow their lead.

hmmmm can't help thinking about their performance during WWII?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If it wasn't for the people who died for freedom,then there wouldn't be any Muslims in this country.

Britain would be under the Nazi's and Muslims,especially fanatical extremists would have ended up in gas ovens.

Instead of burning poppies, these protesters should be among the first to sing their praises.

Do as the French do and kick these scum out!

XXXX

Where would you kick them out to? Back to where they were born?

Glasgow? Newcastle? Leeds? Bradford? Derby? Leicester? London?

Simple,any radical Muslim country.

The sort of life style they seem to yearn for,it would obviously be doing them a kindness!"

What about the WHITE middle class youths that piss on the poppies laid on war memorials?!!

Just out of curiosity like, ship them out too?!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It speaks volumes for the tolerance and nobility of the people of these islands that the disrespectful, disgraceful and hate filled protests today were not met with wholesale violence and rioting.

'At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them'."

thankyou

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"If it wasn't for the people who died for freedom,then there wouldn't be any Muslims in this country.

Britain would be under the Nazi's and Muslims,especially fanatical extremists would have ended up in gas ovens.

Instead of burning poppies, these protesters should be among the first to sing their praises.

Do as the French do and kick these scum out!

XXXX

Where would you kick them out to? Back to where they were born?

Glasgow? Newcastle? Leeds? Bradford? Derby? Leicester? London?

Simple,any radical Muslim country.

The sort of life style they seem to yearn for,it would obviously be doing them a kindness!

What about the WHITE middle class youths that piss on the poppies laid on war memorials?!!

Just out of curiosity like, ship them out too?!! "

it certainly got more tv coverage and he was arrested for it if i recall

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

".......Two things...funny how the police didnt nick any of them...doesnt look good for PR does it..

Have they actually broken any law?

Yes..Incitement

Did they? Was anyone actually incited to violence? Lots of people, including me, were made very angry about it but it didn't incite me to violence.

You might have reacted differently though voyeur if you had been there..the word ''potential''' always plays a part...what they did could have so easily sparked a riot..

I'd still much rather live in a country where such protests, disgusting as I find them, are allowed than a dictatorship or nominal democracy where you're never sure what is, or isn't acceptable to the state.

The BNP and the EDL and, probably, many other shadowy organisations will be rubbing their hands in glee at the behaviour seen earlier. I have no time for such extremists - in either direction but I'd much rather we tolerated such activities in public than drove them further and further underground where it can fester and grow to the point where controlling them becomes virtually impossible.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 11/11/10 22:33:51]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

they are now citizens of our country, some of them are since birth.

the act they are committing is treason and it was at one time punishable by death.

the only way forward is to ship the fuckers off to a muslim state where they can preach hatred against britain without the benefits of living here

Should be like that here"

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

What about the WHITE middle class youths that piss on the poppies laid on war memorials?!!

Just out of curiosity like, ship them out too?!! "

...and, I will just add, that whilst despicable, these were d*unken antics...disgraceful d*unken antics.

what those men did today was malicious and deliberate

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

".......Two things...funny how the police didnt nick any of them...doesnt look good for PR does it..

...........

Have they actually broken any law?

yes we must uphold the right to freely protest for the day we infringe upon it will be the day we infringe upon our own rights.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"......................

there's been a lot of talk about how the french protest, especially against their government and how we should follow their lead.

hmmmm can't help thinking about their performance during WWII?"

I was first in Paris in 1988 when bunch of us did the did the tourist things. Notre Dame, the Louvre and the Eiffel Tower.

My first thought on seeing the size of the city of Paris stretched out below us was 'how was it possible for a comparitively small army to overrun a city of this size?'

Once you start exploring France, especially the fiercely partisan areas well away from the north east corner it makes even less sense. It's impossible to draw any conclusion other than that they simply didn't bother trying.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Do not assume that these mislead people represent the British moslim. You are right about Hitler's plan and the majority of British Moslims are solid in their praise and respect this rememberance.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"......................

there's been a lot of talk about how the french protest, especially against their government and how we should follow their lead.

hmmmm can't help thinking about their performance during WWII?

I was first in Paris in 1988 when bunch of us did the did the tourist things. Notre Dame, the Louvre and the Eiffel Tower.

My first thought on seeing the size of the city of Paris stretched out below us was 'how was it possible for a comparitively small army to overrun a city of this size?'

Proud to be British and proud not to follow.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

if people dont like the way we do things in this country,

go to china!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If it wasn't for the people who died for freedom,then there wouldn't be any Muslims in this country.

Britain would be under the Nazi's and Muslims,especially fanatical extremists would have ended up in gas ovens.

Instead of burning poppies, these protesters should be among the first to sing their praises.

Do as the French do and kick these scum out!

XXXX

Where would you kick them out to? Back to where they were born?

Glasgow? Newcastle? Leeds? Bradford? Derby? Leicester? London?

Simple,any radical Muslim country.

The sort of life style they seem to yearn for,it would obviously be doing them a kindness!

What about the WHITE middle class youths that piss on the poppies laid on war memorials?!!

Just out of curiosity like, ship them out too?!! "

Not shipped out but have seven shades knocked out of them.

I don't care what colour or religion they are, a t**t is a t**t whether they're black, white, brown, yellow, Muslim or Christian.R

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By *uro anchorMan
over a year ago

Coventry

"if people dont like the way we do things in this country,

go to china!"

whats wrong with china ?..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"if people dont like the way we do things in this country,

go to china!"

I believe that's what David Cameron did. Unfortunately he's coming back.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

ok seriously now.

it does get me because if hitler had won all those protestors would never have been born.

waves of religion and cultures would have been removed from the face of the earth and i think these people forget that.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It just shows they don't think anything of the sacrafice made by people who died for their right to practice thier chosen religion. Esp the 2. million Indian Sikhs, Hindus and Muslims who volunteered and fought in the 2nd world war.

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By *ustyWoman
over a year ago

inverclyde

was brought up to respect nov 11th, was married to a guy in forces and will never stop showing my respect ever for those who have suffered in any conflict, even the schools now have a 2 min silence but its the ones when your in the supermarket who still have to push the trolley round doing there shopping that bugs me 2 mins is all we are asking to remember those who died ..... if not for them we would not be here today and i support all the serving men and women today and admire them

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"ok seriously now.

it does get me because if hitler had won all those protestors would never have been born.

waves of religion and cultures would have been removed from the face of the earth and i think these people forget that."

But he didn't win. He didn't win because enough people had enough faith in freedom to stand against him and all the evil he stood for.

If you believe in freedom you don't get to pick the bits which suit your mindset.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"ok seriously now.

it does get me because if hitler had won all those protestors would never have been born.

waves of religion and cultures would have been removed from the face of the earth and i think these people forget that."

"these people" could be misleading. Would it not be better to state exactly who you are referring to?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it". Voltaire.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

My parents bought me up to show respect to those who lost their lives protecting us.

my grandad was in the dunkirk landings and was a RSO.

My dad was in the airforce.

My two brothers both served in ireland along side two cousins and all came back alive, I was in the T.A for 3 years.

If observing a two min silence or buying a poppy is all i can do now to show my utmost respect , then so be it.

And i bought my son up the same way.

Shame that sentiment is bieng lost with todays young parents. the hatred around the world and such like.

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By *ung and readyMan
over a year ago

newcastle under lyme

the people who do these kind of things are the ones who hide amongst us.

they wait like a cunning fox.

show their face to only accept their medal of disobedience to our beliefs

then hope they can slip back into our society as if nothing has happened.

they know what they have done.

let us hope that they pay the price for soiling our icon for our troops.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"the people who do these kind of things are the ones who hide amongst us.

they wait like a cunning fox.

show their face to only accept their medal of disobedience to our beliefs

then hope they can slip back into our society as if nothing has happened.

they know what they have done.

let us hope that they pay the price for soiling our icon for our troops."

enough already Lurkio

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"As for freedom of speech...it would be interesting to see how much freedom of speech was allowed if the situation was reversed...my guess would be zero...amazing how football supporters face a life ban from clubs and criminal prosecution for running on a pitch...or calling opposing supporters wankers..thats after the police have cracked a few over the head..affray and incitement are very often used against football supporters..but why not against those people today????????..."

Probably because Muslims Against Crusades are fully briefed regarding the law regarding incitement to religious or racial hatred. Those who were arrested [three of them]were, according to press reports, arrested for other public order offences and for assaulting a Police Officer. None of their banners included racially or religiously motivated statements and their chants did not include foul or obscene language [as occurs at football matches]. Apparently, accusing British soldiers of murder is not an offence. If they had stated that Christian British Soldiers were murderers they may have committed an offence. If they shouted that Scottish/English/Welsh/Irish Christian W****r Soldiers were murderers they may have committed several offences. Ironically, they may also have committed an offence by lighting a fire on a pedestrian thoroughfare but not for burning a Poppy.

Don't like it any more than the next person but that's why in this country we don't stone people to death or kill women who object to marrying someone who is not of their choosing.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

""As for freedom of speech...it would be interesting to see how much freedom of speech was allowed if the situation was reversed...my guess would be zero...amazing how football supporters face a life ban from clubs and criminal prosecution for running on a pitch...or calling opposing supporters wankers..thats after the police have cracked a few over the head..affray and incitement are very often used against football supporters..but why not against those people today????????..."

Don't like it any more than the next person but that's why in this country we don't stone people to death or kill women who object to marrying someone who is not of their choosing.

You are right to postulate this and with these kinds of extremists (of any faith) you would barely be allowed to move. They scare me too.

However, these "so-called" moslems DO NOT respresent the mainstream moslems who are law-abiding, respectful and community oriented. Most of us know at least one moslem and if you don't maybe you should reach out a hand and see?

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By *ung and readyMan
over a year ago

newcastle under lyme

they come to our land to take.

but what do they take ?

we harmonise Germany.

we split the USSR .

we invite into our community these ppl who want our way of life.

but what do they really want.

because that is what they can't have.

otherwise they would not bear a grudge like they do.

we all meet the maker .

and they won't want to rush to meet theirs.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"as you say,others died so they can protest.

celtic fans held up banner that some found distasteful.

Louis on x factor wore a poppy the last two shows,mary did the first week but not the second. was wearing it costing her irish votes?

i wore a poppy and observed the silence out of respect as i do every year but its not compulsory.

and i detest the EDL but the member who tried to jump the barrier and attack the protesters..good try fella"

Irishmen have died in thier thousands fighting for Britain for centuries, not wearing the poppy because you are Irish is showing disrespect to the men of the Irish Regiments who came from Southern Ireland to defend thier neighbours.

The same goes for the Welsh, Scottish and Men of Northern Ireland but they were British, the men from the South of Ireland did so by choice and have earned thier poppies.

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By *heWolfMan
over a year ago

warwickshire

"ok seriously now.

it does get me because if hitler had won all those protestors would never have been born.

waves of religion and cultures would have been removed from the face of the earth and i think these people forget that.

But he didn't win. He didn't win because enough people had enough faith in freedom to stand against him and all the evil he stood for.

Erm, no, he didn't win because there were too many Russians, simple as that, and Uncle Joe wasn't exactly a proponent of "freedom" in any way shape or form, was he?

As for Muslims, well, the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem was more than happy to side with Hitler and encourage all Muslims to fight against the Allies. It was Muslim SS divisions like "Handschaar" and "Skandebeg" that were responsible for the countless atrocities whilst on "anti-partisan" duties which largely sullied the Waffen SS' reputation as a fighting elite forever. However, in contrast to the Germanic divisions, they were badly disciplined and generally shit their pants and deserted as soon as the Red Army troops rolled up against them.

Their legacy lives on though, there was controversy a couple of years ago when the Croats fielded a division called "Handschaar", understandably the Serbs considered that provocative and offensive. Obviously, no-one in the Balkans learned anything from the World Wars or the conflicts since. But then as far as religion is concerned, we never have learned anything, basically because it's all a load of abstract bollocks.

In short, Muslim or Christian (or Jew, for that matter) will always be at odds, because each one is convinced they are right and their invisible friend in the sky is on their side.

Unfortunately for us in this nominally Christian country, the dominant religion is based upon "turning the other cheek" and forgiving those that trespass against us. The potential usurpers' faith, whatever else it stands for, advocates killing non-believers, apostates, blasphemers etc etc. Perhaps if there were truly Martial Christians, Crusaders, there could take place a proper fight to see whose religion is "correct". Not that I give a shit, I spit on the bible and koran, it's just that I know that one side would kill me, the other would forgive and encourage me to repent.

Fuck 'em all, kill the lot, both sides, their God will recognise his own (if he exists). In this age of science and reason we could do without being held to ransom by gullible fuckwits who thinks any supreme being is looking down on their every move.

Ah, that's better...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Agree with one thing there.

Germany lost the war because Hitler invaded Russia.

Before the USA came into the war we bought Billions of £s worth of equipment from them, so much so that we only finished paying for it in the 1980s.

Hitler invaded his Russian allies because he was desperate for the resources available in Russia, pretty secure from bombing factories and more importantly oil.

Had he done what we did and bought the oil and equipment he needed we could not have stopped him, Russia would have sold him all he needed then with the West defeated he could have fought on one front against the Russians and had a better chance of defeating them.

In Stalingrad more Russians died than British, American, Canadian, Indian and French combined during the whole of the war.

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By *ertnbeckyCouple
over a year ago

oldham

we saw Muslims break the two minute silence in central london, with

banners holding "British Soldiers Burn In Hell" & the burning of a

poppy... if you don't like us English people paying respect for our

brave fighters, then you know where the airport is. disgusting,

...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think its time that the Muslim community who do not condone this type of behaviour had more gumption, they need to stand up and say it more often and louder.

Shun the extremists, excommunicate them from the Muslim faith show them that it is not acceptable. Dont allow them to be the more public face of the muslim faith.

If we didn't respond to them in such a public way the press give these extremist airtime then they can be dealt with in a quick and quiet manner. The press give the extremist what they want which is publicity this publicity creates conflict.

So figuritively speaking we should turn our backs on their words. Show the extremists that we are a tolerant and civilised society. Treat them like the pathetic lowlifes that they are and dont waste your time on then.

If their behaviour decends to violence deal with them with our laws and dont be afraid of them playing the race card.

I just wish that the muslim community would be more public in their condemnation of the behaviour of these extremist.

An for god sake press dont give them inkspace

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By *ertnbeckyCouple
over a year ago

oldham

if these fuckers dont stand behind our soldiers maybe they should go stand in front of them

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By *nvictusMan
over a year ago

Beeston

It is utterly disgusting I agree, particularly to burn poppies. Yet many of the protesters are born here, so 'sending them' home is not an option with our laws, although I do agree that any seeking asylum here who partake in such acts should be sent packing.

It would be better in many respects for the media not to even cover the stories. That way their pathetic little protests will just fizzle out and no one would really notice. But, of course, that won't happen - it doesn't sell copies of newspapers. So we just get a cycle of hate that slowly draws more and more people in.

The saddest part of all of this is that it overshadows all the soldiers of every colour and creed who have died defending our country, its former colonies and its assets in many different conflicts over the years.

Yesterday I saw a Sikh gentleman with a poppy almost in tears at the 2 minute silence. Also when the local unit from my area returned to their base they did a parade through the town and there were a good few blacks, Asians, a couple of Chinese and obviously some Muslim ladies with children all waving flags.

I know a fantastic Muslim chap who I regularly see when I am camping, he used to fly a Saudi flag from his tent along side the Union Flag but now he feels he can't do that as he doesn't want to offend anyone. His pride to be British puts mine to shame to be honest.

I'm not a woolly liberal, I do get angry about this stuff as well but it doesn't change anything. The only answer I can see is from the religious leaders themselves to stop being so bloody timid and actually speak out about these issues. I firmly believe that all the major Abrahamic faiths need to put their house in order and out and openly discourage such acts. If the moderates fail to speak out then the extremists just slowly gain ground.

I'll still remember the soldiers at the parade on Sunday and raise a glass to them in my own way in the evening. I will remember them long after this sad little protest has been forgotten.

Ne obliviscamur.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

im not quite sure why people still get shocked by these out breaks, to be honest its no better than i expect from muslim extreamists, they intend to shock and thats what they keep doing

You cant even call a bloody teddy mohammed without being arrested in their culture but they can spit all over everyone elses

Its just a pitty they give all muslims a bad name, i work with quite a few as i live in a high muslim area and they they get a real bum times from people taking out their anger on them for something they dont even agree with, people just see muslims as muslims but most here dont agree with what they do any more than we do

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If your that upset by this DO something about it It's fowl what they did they should b deported

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

""I disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it". Voltaire."

It wasn't actually Voltaire who wrote that. His biographer used the phrase to sum up Voltaire's belief in freedom of speech.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

nailed it.

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By *urreyfun2008Man
over a year ago

East Grinstead

What is the radical cause changes with time, and generally goes in cycles.

As for the protests, wrong time and place. It may have got them press coverage, but not of the sort likely to win many friends.

Rememberance services are one of the few times I've seen joint services across many religions.

The date was set by WW1, but it is a day of rememberance for all those that have lost lives in conflicts.

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By *acreadCouple
over a year ago

central scotland

These people are appeased and it doesnt work.

A few yrs back in Glasgow there were a group of thugs who just happened to be muslims and although they were causing havoc the police were actualy told not to bother them too much as they didnt want any racism cases brought against them?

One night a few of them snatched a 16 yr old boy off the street bundled him into a car beat him and stabbed him before taking him to a park and setting him on fire while he was still alive this is the danger of turning a blind eye to theses bastards.

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By *acreadCouple
over a year ago

central scotland

My mistake he was only 15 and his name was Kriss Donald

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

its a sick outrageous disgrace by sick twisted people who deserve nothing from this country, but to keep it in perspective, it was 30 people, not a race, or a religeon. just 30 people !

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By *acreadCouple
over a year ago

central scotland

Doesnt matter if it was 30 or 30000 they should still be arrested as what they did goes beyond freedom of speech.

What would happen if me and 29 others went down to Bradford or somewhere and started burning the Koran?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I am just wondering where is the respect shown to others these days? I may be old fashioned but we were taught values of treating everyone with respect, no matter what colour, religion etc we are all human beings and should treat each other with kindness. I am appalled these days at man's inhumanity to man. So very sad.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Doesnt matter if it was 30 or 30000 they should still be arrested as what they did goes beyond freedom of speech.

What would happen if me and 29 others went down to Bradford or somewhere and started burning the Koran?"

I dont disagree with that in the slightest, they should have the book thrown at them, i have no sympathy with them what so ever. what i am saying is that there were 30 people there, not the entire islamic population. some people are just radical, they just like trouble

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Doesnt matter if it was 30 or 30000 they should still be arrested as what they did goes beyond freedom of speech.

What would happen if me and 29 others went down to Bradford or somewhere and started burning the Koran?"

in all likelihood you would be arrested. attacked? maybe.

journalist Michael Kelly (who was the first US journalist to be killed in the Iraq war) wrote an article about about militia the US who believed that left wing and right wing idelogies should converge to fight a common enemy.he called it 'Fusion Paranoia'

relevant in this context? maybe not but he said "They question everything, and believe nothing but what is proven to their own satisfaction, until they have refigured the world. In this way, truth lies. Unfortunately, so does madness." "They are undone by an excess of expectation and a dearth of imagination, by the failure of their country to live up to itself, and by their own failure to explain how this can have happened."

I kinda see his point

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By *acreadCouple
over a year ago

central scotland

Religion to me seems to be the root of all evil.

I am Catholic by name but dont practice my religion and I am basicaly easy going and treat others well but I do not believe in turning the other cheek if somone does me a good turn i will try and pay them back tenfold and if someone does me a bad turn i will try and get my revenge tenfold.

And to me these ppl are not only disrespecting our troops past and present but our whole country whether they themselves are British born or not.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Before the USA came into the war we bought Billions of £s worth of equipment from them, so much so that we only finished paying for it in the 1980s.

...because of the interest rates that the US imposed on that loan; they basically crippled us. they knew we needed their assistance and even years after the war they refused to either lower or drop the extortionate rates they placed.

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By *iggles and BeardyCouple
over a year ago

Bristol

Grandad always said "the idea of people fought in a war so people like me had freedom was bollox" He fought in a war, because the bastards put him on a ship, gave him a gun and said "shoot the enemy or they will shoot you"

So he fought for his survival an the idea that it was for future generations never entered his mind.... though it gave old guys somthing to moan about.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

my dad got his nose broke over that, he was in germany in the 80's R.E.M.E and a load of american marines were in base, they were all ego boosted saying how great they were for "saving us" so my dad piped up that they were great but that they were all deaf, the biggest marine asked me dad what he meant to which he replied.....England blew a Bugle in 1939 and you buggers didnt hear it till 1943.....SMACK lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

lol ..there's a story i read, if world war 1 had been a pub fight,not the thread to post it in but it ends with

America waits till Germany is about to fall over from sustained punching from Britain and France, then walks over and smashes it with a barstool, then pretends it won the fight all by itself. By now all the chairs are broken and the big mirror over the bar is shattered. Britain, France and America agree that Germany threw the first punch, so the whole thing is Germany's fault

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By *ara_and_MJCouple
over a year ago

rochdale

"......................

there's been a lot of talk about how the french protest, especially against their government and how we should follow their lead.

hmmmm can't help thinking about their performance during WWII?

I was first in Paris in 1988 when bunch of us did the did the tourist things. Notre Dame, the Louvre and the Eiffel Tower.

My first thought on seeing the size of the city of Paris stretched out below us was 'how was it possible for a comparitively small army to overrun a city of this size?'

Lots of very brave Frenchmen & women did just that. Members of the FFI, the Maquis, the Free French Forces etc continued the fight even when the odds were insurmountable. Just because the Govt. decided to capitulate doesn't mean the people did.

The FFI (Free French of the Interior) continued to fight a full-scale guerrilla war from the central highlands of France for over 4yrs, it just doesn't suit our Anglo-centric mindest to remember this.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Grandad always said "the idea of people fought in a war so people like me had freedom was bollox" He fought in a war, because the bastards put him on a ship, gave him a gun and said "shoot the enemy or they will shoot you"

So he fought for his survival an the idea that it was for future generations never entered his mind.... though it gave old guys somthing to moan about.

that may pretty much sum up the situation in WWI in which troops were basically used as weapons and were sent to fight with little or no equipment. This was a time when Britons were not free at all. The "Rich" ruled with an iron hand and many went to war to earn money. Do not believe it when anyone tells you that Britain is the oldest democracy in the world. Read some history books instead.

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By *ara_and_MJCouple
over a year ago

rochdale

So he fought for his survival an the idea that it was for future generations never entered his mind.... though it gave old guys somthing to moan about.

Warfare for several centuries was embarked upon by both the nobles, gentry & commons alike for personal gain. Ransom (of a titled enemy) was the name of the game for the highborn, whilst uncontrolled thievery was a way of making a lifetimes cash for the rest.

English troops during the 100yrs War committed many a 'chevauchee' in which the army would form a line, march, & steal, kill & destroy everything & anything in it's path. The ostensible aim was to force the French to come out of their fortresses & fight, but the aim for most of the troops was to steal as much as they could.

Many men went home rich enough to buy businesses, marry & settle down in comfort whilst some nobles became richer than the Crown itself!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As Martin Niemöller famously quoted...

They came first for the Communists & I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists & I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews & I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for me & by that time no one was left to speak up.

Our freedom is at a price & should be respected.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"......................

there's been a lot of talk about how the french protest, especially against their government and how we should follow their lead.

hmmmm can't help thinking about their performance during WWII?

I was first in Paris in 1988 when bunch of us did the did the tourist things. Notre Dame, the Louvre and the Eiffel Tower.

My first thought on seeing the size of the city of Paris stretched out below us was 'how was it possible for a comparitively small army to overrun a city of this size?'

I'd only disagree with the 'lots'.

That and the accusation of Anglo-centricity

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

""I disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it". Voltaire.

It wasn't actually Voltaire who wrote that. His biographer used the phrase to sum up Voltaire's belief in freedom of speech."

Didn't say he wrote it. It couldn't be found in any of his writings. He may have said it. It was certainly attributed to him.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

eeeee ba gum, they're a picky lot!

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By *uton_coupleCouple
over a year ago

luton

"As Martin Niemöller famously quoted...

They came first for the Communists & I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists & I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews & I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for me & by that time no one was left to speak up.

Our freedom is at a price & should be respected."

its very famous , its been quoted in the threads about 16 times now

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By *amschwingerzCouple
over a year ago

West

"If it wasn't for the people who died for freedom,then there wouldn't be any Muslims in this country.

Britain would be under the Nazi's and Muslims,especially fanatical extremists would have ended up in gas ovens.

Instead of burning poppies, these protesters should be among the first to sing their praises.

Do as the French do and kick these scum out!

XXXX

Where would you kick them out to? Back to where they were born?

Glasgow? Newcastle? Leeds? Bradford? Derby? Leicester? London?

Simple,any radical Muslim country.

The sort of life style they seem to yearn for,it would obviously be doing them a kindness!

What about the WHITE middle class youths that piss on the poppies laid on war memorials?!!

Just out of curiosity like, ship them out too?!! "

No...just give them a really...really good kicking.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"eeeee ba gum, they're a picky lot!"

E baa gum

a northern practice of administering MDMA by injecting it into the soft tissue lining of the mouth

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

A reminder about Muslim extremism in the UK.....I know I keep saying it but to some it just doesn't sink home when they scream 'Send them back'

Every one of the 7th July muslim suicide bombers in London were British born.....

The WHITE muslim convert from Plymouth who attempted to bomb Exeter city shopping centre (both my sons were in the vacinity that day).....born in Britain

British born muslims one and all, and the majority of the 25-30 muslims protesting in London yesterday were probably British born...

The way to look at it is do these 25-30 scum infested protestors REALLY represent the thoughts and feelings of the 1.8 Million Muslims who live in Britain today?

I think probably very unlikely....

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By *acreadCouple
over a year ago

central scotland

Ok dont send the extremists anywhere, take them a few hundred miles out in the Atlantic and drop them off at least they wont be trying to blow anyone else up.

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

"Ok dont send the extremists anywhere, take them a few hundred miles out in the Atlantic and drop them off at least they wont be trying to blow anyone else up."

They weren't trying to blow anyone up.....they were protesting.

According to the Met Police today they gain more by recording the antics of these scum and collating later intelligence on them than they do by arresting them then having to let them go within a couple of hours on a public order warning.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I live and work in London. I went thru edgware tube station exactly 1 hour before the bomb went off there on 7/7. i have also been in central london when a bomb was detonated by a white republican group. I don't make a distinction between the two. terrorism is terrorism to me, but then they're somebody else's freedom fighters. all i know is that if muslim extremists chant anti british slogans or a republican rattles a bucket in front of me(as has happened before) I'm gonna get the hump and probably punch em. now let's just say the worst of the worst happens, a bomb goes off and one of my family is maimed or killed because someone thinks that they have a just cause to randomly kill people. one of my reactions to this would be to go and kill extremists chanting anti british slogans or irishman raising funds in london pubs in order to blow up other london buildings. now,I am quite aware that is a totally barbaric attitude,but then so is blowing up tube trains or Harrods. not all muslims are extremists but those who are can't complain if the rhetoric they are spouting comes back to bite them on the arse.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Ok dont send the extremists anywhere, take them a few hundred miles out in the Atlantic and drop them off at least they wont be trying to blow anyone else up."

That'd make us as bad as them.

Not in my name you don't.

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By *acreadCouple
over a year ago

central scotland

Not talking about the protesters here I am talking about the bombers etc.

And dont wory i wouldnt do it in your name and I also dont believe in.

That makes us as bad as them but what I do believe in is an eye for an eye.

Come to think of it isnt that in the bible?

The karan after all is used to justify cutting heads off.

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By *thwalescplCouple
over a year ago

brecon

"So, whilst the rest of us ignore the politics and show our respect for those that have fought to defend and protect our country and our liberties, Muslims Against Crusades decide to burn the emblem that has come to symbolise our respect for those that we remember and marching on before clashing with our police.

our soldiers fight to protect our rights and have actually allowed these protesters the freedom to protest. I can't think of a greater disrespect"

It's simple really, they should have been arrested under section 5 of the public order laws.... but of course that didnt happen, for fear of "offending" the muslim community ffs!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I live and work in London. I went thru edgware tube station exactly 1 hour before the bomb went off there on 7/7. i have also been in central london when a bomb was detonated by a white republican group. I don't make a distinction between the two. terrorism is terrorism to me, but then they're somebody else's freedom fighters. all i know is that if muslim extremists chant anti british slogans or a republican rattles a bucket in front of me(as has happened before) I'm gonna get the hump and probably punch em. now let's just say the worst of the worst happens, a bomb goes off and one of my family is maimed or killed because someone thinks that they have a just cause to randomly kill people. one of my reactions to this would be to go and kill extremists chanting anti british slogans or irishman raising funds in london pubs in order to blow up other london buildings. now,I am quite aware that is a totally barbaric attitude,but then so is blowing up tube trains or Harrods. not all muslims are extremists but those who are can't complain if the rhetoric they are spouting comes back to bite them on the arse."

You'll get no arguments from me on that. Good post.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"A reminder about Muslim extremism in the UK.....I know I keep saying it but to some it just doesn't sink home when they scream 'Send them back'

Every one of the 7th July muslim suicide bombers in London were British born.....

The WHITE muslim convert from Plymouth who attempted to bomb Exeter city shopping centre (both my sons were in the vacinity that day).....born in Britain

British born muslims one and all, and the majority of the 25-30 muslims protesting in London yesterday were probably British born...

The way to look at it is do these 25-30 scum infested protestors REALLY represent the thoughts and feelings of the 1.8 Million Muslims who live in Britain today?

I think probably very unlikely....

Well if thats the case its time those 1.8 million Muslims got off the fence and showed how British minded they are by nipping the extremists in the bud.

They know who they are and have the power to stop it.

All it takes for evil to prevail is for a few good men to do nothing.

XXXX

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

"A reminder about Muslim extremism in the UK.....I know I keep saying it but to some it just doesn't sink home when they scream 'Send them back'

Every one of the 7th July muslim suicide bombers in London were British born.....

The WHITE muslim convert from Plymouth who attempted to bomb Exeter city shopping centre (both my sons were in the vacinity that day).....born in Britain

British born muslims one and all, and the majority of the 25-30 muslims protesting in London yesterday were probably British born...

The way to look at it is do these 25-30 scum infested protestors REALLY represent the thoughts and feelings of the 1.8 Million Muslims who live in Britain today?

I think probably very unlikely....

Well if thats the case its time those 1.8 million Muslims got off the fence and showed how British minded they are by nipping the extremists in the bud.

They know who they are and have the power to stop it.

All it takes for evil to prevail is for a few good men to do nothing.

XXXX"

On that we totally agree.....

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By *acreadCouple
over a year ago

central scotland

Google Kris Donald and have a look at the consequences of the police being told to back of from a group of muslims who were causing havoc in an area of glasgow for fear off accusations of racism.

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

our soldiers fight to protect our rights and have actually allowed these protesters the freedom to protest. I can't think of a greater disrespect

It's simple really, they should have been arrested under section 5 of the public order laws.... but of course that didnt happen, for fear of "offending" the muslim community ffs!"

It's pretty much a toothless law, slap on the wrist and a small fine.....the fact is that there were many many more Muslims wearing British uniforms yesterday than there were protesting....and that is the real measure of the insignificance of those 25 odd scum.

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

"Google Kris Donald and have a look at the consequences of the police being told to back of from a group of muslims who were causing havoc in an area of glasgow for fear off accusations of racism."

I think you will find there have been more than enough racist attacks on BOTH sides, none better than the other

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Google Kris Donald and have a look at the consequences of the police being told to back of from a group of muslims who were causing havoc in an area of glasgow for fear off accusations of racism."

That'd be KrisS Donald.

I'm astonished the Donald story didn't produce a bigger backlash against the BME community than it has. Sarwar senior did much to calming fears of open warfare at the time but anyone daft enough to find themselves in or around Pollokshields or Govanhill can feel the tension which still permeates the areas.

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By *acreadCouple
over a year ago

central scotland

I wasnt refering to the attacks I was talking about the police letting them carry on causing havoc in the area for fear of being accused of racism and a 15 year old boy died a horrible death thriugh it.

And do you honestly think that if it had been a gang of whites that the police would have let them carry on?

Make your answer as honest as you can.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I wasnt refering to the attacks I was talking about the police letting them carry on causing havoc in the area for fear of being accused of racism and a 15 year old boy died a horrible death thriugh it.

And do you honestly think that if it had been a gang of whites that the police would have let them carry on?

Make your answer as honest as you can.

I honestly don't know. Pollokshields is pretty lawless territory where racism is concerned and, in my experience, both sides are as bad as each other.

I say 'each' other but that might imply there are two armed camps in this conflict. I doubt that's the case. I'm told there are similar conflicts amongst the BME community over such matters as levels of devotion as there are amongst white Scottish kids over territory.

An example I'd cite is the continued campaign allegedly by hard core Pakistani guys in Pollokshields against the the (Pakistani) owners of Pakistani Cafe over their policy of selling alcohol to customers.

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

I will just cite the case of Stephen Lawrence and how the Met Police never properly investigated the case because of pressures from within the white dominated Freemasons.....

A clearly racially motivated cold blooded murder, with an investigation manipulated by senior officers to keep certain sections of the community onside.

Nothing new....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I will just cite the case of Stephen Lawrence and how the Met Police never properly investigated the case because of pressures from within the white dominated Freemasons.....

A clearly racially motivated cold blooded murder, with an investigation manipulated by senior officers to keep certain sections of the community onside.

Nothing new...."

You're really going to have to explain that left-fielder to the rest of us.

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By *uy4u4funMan
over a year ago

Dalry

Everyone is asking "What laws have they broken ?"

To me this is nothing less than treason and these racists, who we let upon our shores should live be the laws of the country.

Treason should still carry the penalty of death, any european carrying out these actions in a muslin country would soon find themselves being stoned or hung.

Are our politicians totally spineless and never going to realise we must make a stand.

They shunned Enoch Powell, now we are paying the price and "the streets will run with blood"

They turn there backs on war heroes

I ask do these imigrants or Celtic supporters turn there back on state benefits, education or the health services we have as a result of the sacrifices of our war heroes.

I long to see their backs as they are sent back home.

Vive La France.

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

Read up on the law of Treason and come back to me with one single reason why these protests should be classified as Treason?

The last succesful conviction for Treason in Britain was in 1945.......

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By *uy4u4funMan
over a year ago

Dalry

High treason is disloyalty to the sovereign

These acts have been carried out in the UK

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"High treason is disloyalty to the sovereign

These acts have been carried out in the UK

How is setting fire to a bunch of poppies, objectionable as it is to right thinking folk, 'disloyalty to the Sovereign'?

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By *acreadCouple
over a year ago

central scotland

So all immigrants and celtic supporters are drawing benefits guy4u.

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By *ittle-Miss-MuffetCouple
over a year ago

Chester / North Wales

Funny thing, freedom of speech. As you will always get people trying to dictate who should actually have the freedom to speak freely.

While the acts of the protesters were despicable and seriously misguided, perhaps as misguided as many of the posters who recommend randomly deporting them somewhere else.

Strange how religion and war always seem to go hand in hand.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So all immigrants and celtic supporters are drawing benefits guy4u."

That's a bit below the belt. If we're going to make this work we need to avoid such comments.

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By *acreadCouple
over a year ago

central scotland

It was a question as guy4u seemed to imply it.

And religion seems to cause more trouble than anything else in this world

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

"High treason is disloyalty to the sovereign

These acts have been carried out in the UK

Sorry but you are thinking of Petty Treason, short of being found guilty of making a direct attempt on the life of the ruling Monarch you will not be charged with Treason in the UK anymore.

Just being disloyal to the Monarch will not see you convicted.

The last person to hang for Treason (William Joyce in 1945) was ultimately wrongly convicted of the crime in the true letter of the law, they never went so far as to give him a postumous Royal pardon but it is widely accepted that in a modern court of law he would not have been convicted.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It was a question as guy4u seemed to imply it.

And religion seems to cause more trouble than anything else in this world"

If you're gonna ask a question, a question mark helps.

Religion HAS been the historic cause of trouble in the past but it's increasingly becoming such matters as access to water, room to accomodate people and so on that puts people's hackles up.

The west of Scotland proddy/ cafflik divide has less to with religion than it has to do with disparity of opportunity.

The thick as mince bigots, ON BOTH SIDES, revel in their position.

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By *acreadCouple
over a year ago

central scotland

Forgot the question mark.

And I despise the catholic/protestant bigotry I know catholics who wont talk to protestants just because they are protestants and vice versa.

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By *xccvvMan
over a year ago

Yorkshire North East

He just stating that for many years Celtic fans have abused British soldiers even when at grounds in Scotland, singing songs against the British soldier's as they marched off with pride

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By *acreadCouple
over a year ago

central scotland

I also find guy4u's comment an insult to the two celtic supporters from Greenock who lost their lives in Afghanistan recently.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"He just stating that for many years Celtic fans have abused British soldiers even when at grounds in Scotland, singing songs against the British soldier's as they marched off with pride"

That's an absolute truth in exactly the same way as we know you can't pass a law against stupidity.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I also find guy4u's comment an insult to the two celtic supporters from Greenock who lost their lives in Afghanistan recently.

They lost their lives because they were Jocks - not because they were Celtic supporters.

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By *acreadCouple
over a year ago

central scotland

Yes Yorkshire I agree but they are also in the minority there are also an awful lot of celtic supporters serving in the British army.

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By *acreadCouple
over a year ago

central scotland

I did not say they lost their lives because they were celtic supporters I said i found it insulting because guy4u implied all celtic supporters are on the dole.

And if we want to nitpick they lost their lives because they were soldiers.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Yes Yorkshire I agree but they are also in the minority there are also an awful lot of celtic supporters serving in the British army."

Are there? I confess I don't know the answer to that but, given the history of the Troubles, I doubt it.

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By *acreadCouple
over a year ago

central scotland

Being that I work with the army I can assure you its true.

Not all catholics are pro IRA and in fact very few that I know are.

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By *xccvvMan
over a year ago

Yorkshire North East

Everyone has their opinion and if all religion was finished with in the morning the world would be rid of 80% of its problems

But I am a realist so live in today, having served in the HM forces seen the anti British anti English brigade, not just from Muslims but from other quarters

Know some will call me stupid as they have done in here, some may call me a bigot without knowing my religion or colour, but I love my country and proud to be English, if that makes me a bad person so be it

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By *acreadCouple
over a year ago

central scotland

I am Catholic but I am also Scottish/British not Irish.

Dont insult me by implying that we are all anti British

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I am Catholic but I am also Scottish/British not Irish.

Dont insult me by implying that we are all anti British"

Who was that directed at? (Question mark. See?)

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

"I am Catholic but I am also Scottish/British not Irish.

Dont insult me by implying that we are all anti British"

Who are you replying to?

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By *acreadCouple
over a year ago

central scotland

Replying to accom voyuer and guy4u.

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By *aptain smilesMan
over a year ago

brewood

at the end of the day ,some people like fighting , i dont like it but how can you stop them ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

my own _iew, but every single one and there relatives put on 1st plane out 2 most deserted hottest backward muslim province where they can pray 2 alah and hate us to there hearts content, suppose its british and being well mannerd and respectful but we dont abuse other countries when there, look what happens there! Were to soft!

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By *leasureDomeMan
over a year ago

all over the place

For me , that protest was only relevant from the point of _iew of it pushed a boundary ...it invaded a no go area and was designed to inflame,the way to undermine it is to treat with contempt a futile attempt to defeat what is human dignity.

It doesnt matter if its moslem dead or christian dead ..the key is they all deserve respect for making the ultimate sacrifice for their cause,often with no choice.

Show respect and remember the millions of fallen they deserve it, it should transcend the politics of the day .

just my opinion.

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By *acreadCouple
over a year ago

central scotland

My final say on the matter is.

Think you to all the brave men and women who gave their lives for this country and I for one will not forget what they did and are still doing today.

Being a past Celtic supporter (have not been to a football match for years)I think it was disgusting what those ppl did and they are rightly being banned from parkhead.

Believe me the vast majority of fans do not share their _iews.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"my own _iew, but every single one and there relatives put on 1st plane out 2 most deserted hottest backward muslim province where they can pray 2 alah and hate us to there hearts content, suppose its british and being well mannerd and respectful but we dont abuse other countries when there, look what happens there! Were to soft!"

and their relatives? The SS lives once more.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"at the end of the day ,some people like fighting , i dont like it but how can you stop them ?"

knock some sense into them! simples

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

our soldiers fight to protect our rights and have actually allowed these protesters the freedom to protest. I can't think of a greater disrespect

It's simple really, they should have been arrested under section 5 of the public order laws.... but of course that didnt happen, for fear of "offending" the muslim community ffs!

Thankyou

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"A reminder about Muslim extremism in the UK.....I know I keep saying it but to some it just doesn't sink home when they scream 'Send them back'

Every one of the 7th July muslim suicide bombers in London were British born.....

The WHITE muslim convert from Plymouth who attempted to bomb Exeter city shopping centre (both my sons were in the vacinity that day).....born in Britain

British born muslims one and all, and the majority of the 25-30 muslims protesting in London yesterday were probably British born...

The way to look at it is do these 25-30 scum infested protestors REALLY represent the thoughts and feelings of the 1.8 Million Muslims who live in Britain today?

I think probably very unlikely....

Well if thats the case its time those 1.8 million Muslims got off the fence and showed how British minded they are by nipping the extremists in the bud.

They know who they are and have the power to stop it.

All it takes for evil to prevail is for a few good men to do nothing.

XXXX"

What makes you think they know who they are? What a strange comment.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

if it was other way round th out come would have been head line news...

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By *heWolfMan
over a year ago

warwickshire

"the fact is that there were many many more Muslims wearing British uniforms yesterday than there were protesting....and that is the real measure of the insignificance of those 25 odd scum."

Yes, over ten times as many Muslims are currently in the armed forces than were protesting.

Muslims currently in UK Armed Forces (approx) : 390.

Total manpower of UK armed forces: 233,860.

UK Muslim soldiers killed in Afghanistan : 1

Total Muslim population of Uk (approx, as of Jacqui Smith's statement, 2008) : 2 million

Yep, they appear to be doing their bit. Pfft!

Armistice Day Muslim protesters are a pain in the arse, but nothing more, they certainly didn't disturb my 2 minute silence. The twats in hoodies on BMXs did, and I'll hazard a guess they came from nominally Christian backgrounds. I couldn't physically grab them, so I ignored them, as did everyone else, they are insignificant splodges of dog cum.That's the price of freedom, I guess, the freedom to act like a twat whenever you want. I do it all the time (yeah yeah), and if a cop tells me I can't go down a certain road one day, I'm the first to call him a Nazi cunt and demand to exercise my freedom. It doesn't make me a traitor, I support freedom as long as it's going my way. Such is the way of the world.

What's really being expressed here, by several posters, and I dare say silently supported by many more, is a growing unease with the make up of the UK population. It's time we faced up to it and stopped disguising our discontent with overly sentimental attachment to non-religious things like Poppy Day, which is after all, derived from the slaughter imposed on troops of all faiths back in 1914-1918 by fuckwits like General Haig with his "bleed 'em white" insistence on Over The Top assaults. Far from being a glorious sacrifice, IMHO it is remembrance for the criminally short-sighted tactics of the generals, and the blind obedience of the troops. Sad, but not heroic, really, to charge a machine gun position just because someone tells you to. "Fuck you buddy, charge it yourself, I'm keeping my head down, the sensible thing to do." (BANG, shot for cowardice!)

So, back to the underlying anxiety here, it's the absolute incompatibility of Islam with our way of life in the nominally Christian UK. The vast majority of UK Christians never go to church, or ever take part in any religious ritual, apart from wishing baby Jesus a Happy Birthday and getting pissed on Dec 25th. That's fine, that's great, that's FREEDOM for you. I spit on the bible, it's a book, a comic book, I wipe my arse on it. Many Christians would frown at that, but they will be sure I'll get my punishment when I get to the Pearly Gates and a bloke with a white beard says "No, not here, you're going downstairs". I'll take my chances ta, I'm free to do it, and hurrah for that. Freedom means being able to question, challenge, and make your own mistakes.

If I wiped my arse on the Koran, I'd be a dead man walking. The Muslim hot-heads would demand my instant death, and the silent majority would agree, or let me be killed. They certainly wouldn't be out defending my freedom to wipe my arse on whatever I wanted.

Until all these apparently "peaceful, law-abiding" Muslims here in the UK come out and say it's OK for me to wipe my arse on any paper, whatever might be written on it, to draw cartoons of their prophet, whatever, and that I will get my punishment from a Supreme Being when I die of natural causes, then I have to assume that the hotheads speak for them. They have to accept that ALL religion is quite possibly utter bullshit, and that until a great big hand comes out of the cloud and squashes me under its thumb, it's more than acceptable for me or anyone else to dismiss religious belief as a confidence trick which traps the weak-minded.

Now, who do I write to about the new TV program I've written, a follow up to Father Ted, called "Imam Abdul"? It's fucking hilarious......

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By *heWolfMan
over a year ago

warwickshire

"......................

there's been a lot of talk about how the french protest, especially against their government and how we should follow their lead.

hmmmm can't help thinking about their performance during WWII?

I was first in Paris in 1988 when bunch of us did the did the tourist things. Notre Dame, the Louvre and the Eiffel Tower.

My first thought on seeing the size of the city of Paris stretched out below us was 'how was it possible for a comparitively small army to overrun a city of this size?'

I'd only disagree with the 'lots'.

That and the accusation of Anglo-centricity

The FFI wasn't a recognised entity until AFTER France had been invaded by the Allies in 1944. Until then "The Resistance" were unco-ordinated groups who were often toe-to-toe with their countrymen whose interests didn't match theirs. It was less a case of fighting to liberate France, and more a case of acting like organised crime gangs. This caused considerable problems to SOE agents dropped into France ahead of D-Day, they found that Maquis groups were more interested in fighting against other resistance units, settling scores, than against the Germans.

There being no contact or co-ordination between different groups meant that trying to organise serious resistance was nigh on impossible, the agents would instruct one group, then go and try to make contact with a neighbouring group, only to find that the first had ignored all their instruction and were doing their own thing.

It was their complete refusal to accept authority from Allied command and unite for a common goal that led to atrocities like the Oradour-sur-Glane massacre, when SS "Das Reich" troops killed 642 men women and children. This was a result of their frustration at being hampered all the way up through France by partisan attacks, culminating in the abduction of a popular officer, and a military ambulance crew being tortured to death by partisans. A Maquis assault on a German garrison had almost succeeded until SS troops arrived and relieved the garrison, but the guerillas had killed and mutilated surrendered German troops, provoking reprisal hangings and ultimately the massacre at Oradour. More the actions of armed thugs than glorious freedom fighters.

After the atrocity at Oradour, The Allies ordered ALL resistance activities in the sector to cease, to prevent any further reprisals against civilians . Rather than being a cohesive paramilitary force to be reckoned with, the local Maquis just provoked a battle-hardened elite Waffen SS division into committing an appalling war-crime, despite warnings not to. Way to go, fellas!

Of course, as soon as the Normandy break-out began and the Germans started to retreat, all the French were keen to claim that they had been in the "Resistance" all along.

Quel surprise!

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By *ingmasterMan
over a year ago

nottingham

"the fact is that there were many many more Muslims wearing British uniforms yesterday than there were protesting....and that is the real measure of the insignificance of those 25 odd scum.

Yes, over ten times as many Muslims are currently in the armed forces than were protesting.

most sensible thing ive ever read on this subject. certaily on this site .

Muslims currently in UK Armed Forces (approx) : 390.

Total manpower of UK armed forces: 233,860.

UK Muslim soldiers killed in Afghanistan : 1

Total Muslim population of Uk (approx, as of Jacqui Smith's statement, 2008) : 2 million

Yep, they appear to be doing their bit. Pfft!

Now, who do I write to about the new TV program I've written, a follow up to Father Ted, called "Imam Abdul"? It's fucking hilarious......"

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By *ingmasterMan
over a year ago

nottingham

was meant to say i agree totally with all the above wolfy .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

In a bid to reduce public expenditure and raise funds, Justice Secretary Ken Clark has announced a new justice lottery.

In a speech at Westminster on Tuesday, Clark told MPs that the new system would be quicker and fairer for everybody. He revealed that the system has been successfully trialed in immigration and asylum services for years, and will now be rolled out to cover the entire civil and criminal justice services.

Under the coalition, there will be further, radical changes right across the civil justice system. Old fashioned concepts of evidence, legal arguments and judges will be replaced by machines similar to those used by the national lottery operator.

"The new system is simple and quick", Clark said, "and it's eminently fairer, giving everyone a basic 50-50 chance of succeeding, whether they are defendants or plantiffs. Litigants can improve their chances by buying extra rows of numbers on their claim and defence forms."

Police questioning and investigations will be phased out and replaced with scratchcards issued to officers and suspects alike, eliminating time wasted on questioning and paperwork. The police will be phased out by 2013.

Clark hinted that there will be special measures for dealing with serious crime more democratically:

"The savings on Police forces will help us reduce the deficit, and improve democracy by letting people decide at local level on serious issues like guilt and sentencing. We hope northern towns like Bradford will revert to lynch mobs and public hangings, by the people, for the people."

spoofdotcom

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