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"Some repsonses to make you think. "My Job involves lots of driving so I'd be knackered without it" You choose your job, it doesn't choose you. Would your job have existed in the same form before the prevalance of car ownership? "When I lived in the South East I rarely drove anywhere as public transport was the best way to get to work for me, but down here in Devon we are lucky to get a bus every hour (where I live) so I would be lost without my car." You moved to Devon because you knew a car would faciliate the way of life you expect. If you had lived in Devon all your life its possible your way of life would have been shaped by the environment around you. Not wanting to cause offence, just giving the contrary _iew. Barry." I totally agree with you, lets all sell our cars and get a horse and trap each - there's a little thing called 'progress' that goes on all the time, if you don't agree with cars - sell yours! Z | |||
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"Some repsonses to make you think. "My Job involves lots of driving so I'd be knackered without it" You choose your job, it doesn't choose you. Would your job have existed in the same form before the prevalance of car ownership? "When I lived in the South East I rarely drove anywhere as public transport was the best way to get to work for me, but down here in Devon we are lucky to get a bus every hour (where I live) so I would be lost without my car." You moved to Devon because you knew a car would faciliate the way of life you expect. If you had lived in Devon all your life its possible your way of life would have been shaped by the environment around you. Not wanting to cause offence, just giving the contrary _iew. Barry. I totally agree with you, lets all sell our cars and get a horse and trap each - there's a little thing called 'progress' that goes on all the time, if you don't agree with cars - sell yours! Z" | |||
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"So you think that everyone who lives in villages in Devon works locally?, I'll let you into a secret, even for the vast majority of people born and bred here and living out of the towns there is no alternative than to go to their place of work by car..... " Before mass car ownership people would have had to be employed locally or along established commuting routes. Dont think present, think past, cars have changed the way we live forever. Barry. | |||
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" Please dont take this personally. Maybe if you lived in a more rural area you would appreciate that more." Again your making an assumption that I have never lived in a rural area. Why did the population boom, because people could commute from there. Without the car the industry would have supported the community or the excess community would have had to leave. Barry. | |||
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" Please dont take this personally. Maybe if you lived in a more rural area you would appreciate that more. Again your making an assumption that I have never lived in a rural area. Why did the population boom, because people could commute from there. Without the car the industry would have supported the community or the excess community would have had to leave. Barry." Wrong....the local industry died off because the stone they were quarrying was no longer of a competative price. Now who's assuming? | |||
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" Do I want to live without my car? No, I most certainly do not. I have worked hard for the things I have in my life, and continue to do so, so I shant be selling it any time soon. " I'm genuinely confused, please explain. I'm not from the green brigade and I am not about to suggest we all renounce cars. They are a fact of life after all. Making people think about how they live was the point. Yes I did have to question some responses in order to get past peoples automatic justifactions. Here's an exmaple of public transport working at a cost with is comparable to using a car. Walk to Station: free, time 15 mins Maghull to Liverpool: £3.60, time 20 mins Liverpool to Stonegate East Sussex: £80, time 4 hours 20 minutes They are off peak return fares. So I can be nearly on the south coast ( Train terminates at Hastings ) for the price of £83.60. in say 5 and a half hours. They are tickets bought on the day of travel. You can knock another 20 quid of for booking in advance. Having done the same journey in a car I can tell you its costs 80 quid in petrol, and the best time I have done it in is 6 hours. The worst is 8 and a half. Concentrating all the way hence knackered on arrival. Ok economy of scale, a full car ( when have you seen one ). Family rail card 60% off child fares and 30% of each adult fare. Travel in comfort walk around have a drink chat use the bog. I'm sure somebody will do the maths.. if you must. Barry. | |||
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"Hmmmm, I was hoping for a bit more of a mixed bag really, but the car seems to win hands down. Even those that could do without it wouldn't. Well I guess mankind has got where he has because of his ability to use tools. And at the end of the day a car is a tool. However, this quote confused me, it hints at a car being some sort of reward. Do I want to live without my car? No, I most certainly do not. I have worked hard for the things I have in my life, and continue to do so, so I shant be selling it any time soon. I'm genuinely confused, please explain. I'm not from the green brigade and I am not about to suggest we all renounce cars. They are a fact of life after all. Making people think about how they live was the point. Yes I did have to question some responses in order to get past peoples automatic justifactions. Here's an exmaple of public transport working at a cost with is comparable to using a car. Walk to Station: free, time 15 mins Maghull to Liverpool: £3.60, time 20 mins Liverpool to Stonegate East Sussex: £80, time 4 hours 20 minutes They are off peak return fares. So I can be nearly on the south coast ( Train terminates at Hastings ) for the price of £83.60. in say 5 and a half hours. They are tickets bought on the day of travel. You can knock another 20 quid of for booking in advance. Having done the same journey in a car I can tell you its costs 80 quid in petrol, and the best time I have done it in is 6 hours. The worst is 8 and a half. Concentrating all the way hence knackered on arrival. Ok economy of scale, a full car ( when have you seen one ). Family rail card 60% off child fares and 30% of each adult fare. Travel in comfort walk around have a drink chat use the bog. I'm sure somebody will do the maths.. if you must. Barry. " The trouble is you have used an example of long distance travel, the argument can easily be turned around with an example of a shorter journey. From where I live to Exeter... Walk almost a mile to the bus stop, then pay £6.60 return for the 10 mile journey. Go by car....no mile walk to the bus stop along country lanes without paths...petrol cost around £2.90. No need to come home before it's dark, a chance to make multiple drop offs of shopping into your car boot, no worrying about catching the once an hour bus...... | |||
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"Here's an exmaple of public transport working at a cost with is comparable to using a car. Walk to Station: free, time 15 mins Maghull to Liverpool: £3.60, time 20 mins Liverpool to Stonegate East Sussex: £80, time 4 hours 20 minutes They are off peak return fares. So I can be nearly on the south coast ( Train terminates at Hastings ) for the price of £83.60. in say 5 and a half hours. They are tickets bought on the day of travel. You can knock another 20 quid of for booking in advance. Having done the same journey in a car I can tell you its costs 80 quid in petrol, and the best time I have done it in is 6 hours. The worst is 8 and a half. Concentrating all the way hence knackered on arrival. Ok economy of scale, a full car ( when have you seen one ). Family rail card 60% off child fares and 30% of each adult fare. Travel in comfort walk around have a drink chat use the bog. I'm sure somebody will do the maths.. if you must. Barry. " I'd love to know wher you got the Liverpool to Stonegate quote from - and you don't mention that it involves at least 2 changes. The quickest I found is 5 hours 6 mins - and you're still about an hour away from the coast!!!! | |||
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"Train from Exeter to London Waterloo... £118.60 (Just paid for a ticket) return. 494 mile road journey (round trip)...£6 a gallon petrol x 10 Gallons comes to around £60 in petrol." plus parking in London tho..... and that is very expensive Jane ... still be overall cheaper by car x | |||
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" I have barely been behind the wheel of a car since I passed my test 13 years ago. I had a rule which said if I can walk it in 20 minutes or less, then I'll walk - then I started to enjoy cycling, so the rule turned into, if I can cycle it in 20 minutes, which puts anywhere within a 4-5 mile radius within reach without having to revert to a motor - then I got into motorbikes, and have kept 2 wheels under me pretty much ever since. Admittedly I do sometimes envy people in boxes when I'm out in the pissing rain with zero visibility and only marginally more grip than that." Must admit last year when i had no money and couldnt afford to put petrol in my car, i walked to work, an hour there and an hour back, thoroughly enjoyed it, got fitter, and managed to get it to 45 mins, if only people would get off the bloody pavement, im sure i could have done it much quicker | |||
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"driveshaft (whatever that is)" No idea but I am strangely drawn to it. | |||
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"driveshaft (whatever that is) No idea but I am strangely drawn to it." Down Boy! | |||
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"driveshaft (whatever that is) No idea but I am strangely drawn to it. Down Boy!" ok x | |||
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"I am going by train this time as my car is going in for a new driveshaft (whatever that is)" it connects the gearbox to the wheel, so kind of important, without one the car wont move, so not even remotly sexy, unless you have a very odd fetish | |||
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"Probably, but it would make my job kinda difficult. I cannot imagine carrying 300m of copper cable, my tools and all my test gear on the back of a pushbike ... " lightweight........ Readybrek in the morning and you are sorted. | |||
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"Probably, but it would make my job kinda difficult. I cannot imagine carrying 300m of copper cable, my tools and all my test gear on the back of a pushbike ... lightweight........ Readybrek in the morning and you are sorted. " Pmsl and maybe a small trailer gor my bike | |||
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"Probably, but it would make my job kinda difficult. I cannot imagine carrying 300m of copper cable, my tools and all my test gear on the back of a pushbike ... lightweight........ Readybrek in the morning and you are sorted. Pmsl and maybe a small trailer gor my bike " thats my boy...... | |||
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" Do I want to live without my car? No, I most certainly do not. I have worked hard for the things I have in my life, and continue to do so, so I shant be selling it any time soon. I'm genuinely confused, please explain. " I would have thought that it was relatively self explanitory but nonetheless, I shall endeavour to explain. I can afford a car, so I own a car. It offers me the luxury of being able to go wherever I want, whenever I want and with whomever I want. I don't have to wait around for public transport nor end up sitting next to the local loon and or soap dodger. It's a luxury, but as I said, I work hard for my luxurys and for someone to (effectively) tell me that I should shun said luxurys and use a (what I consider to be) lesser form of transport sicks more than a little in my throat. Clearer? | |||
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"Why not just move house to be closer to your job, then travel to see friends / relatives at the weekend. " So every time someone gets a new job they are obliged to sell their house and buy one near their work?? Has your estate agency business not recovered from the recession then? | |||
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" I'd love to know wher you got the Liverpool to Stonegate quote from - and you don't mention that it involves at least 2 changes. The quickest I found is 5 hours 6 mins - and you're still about an hour away from the coast!!!! " They allow a 1 hour 20 minutes to get from Euston to London bridge. It takes 20 minutes. How do I know. I've been doing this journey every other week for over a year. C'mon you seriously underestimate me, as if I'd leave a gaping hole like that in my argument. | |||
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" I'd love to know wher you got the Liverpool to Stonegate quote from - and you don't mention that it involves at least 2 changes. The quickest I found is 5 hours 6 mins - and you're still about an hour away from the coast!!!! They allow a 1 hour 20 minutes to get from Euston to London bridge. It takes 20 minutes. How do I know. I've been doing this journey every other week for over a year. C'mon you seriously underestimate me, as if I'd leave a gaping hole like that in my argument. " You've still got to get on the right train tho - and there aren't that many that stop at Stonegate | |||
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" Go by car....no mile walk to the bus stop along country lanes without paths...petrol cost around £2.90. " Factor in insurance, tax, servicing and your weekly payments on the car or the pro rata cost of the car over the time you own it. Not forgetting how much you get shafted whenit breaks down once ayear ( at least ) | |||
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" Go by car....no mile walk to the bus stop along country lanes without paths...petrol cost around £2.90. Factor in insurance, tax, servicing and your weekly payments on the car or the pro rata cost of the car over the time you own it. Not forgetting how much you get shafted whenit breaks down once ayear ( at least )" Hence i persuaded son to be a mechanic as opposed to a chef | |||
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"I could certainly live without one,,,,, but I much prefer not having too, and although I don't particularly like cars... I like having one….. erm make that two actually..... Noooo, not new ones,,,,....pah.... one of em is 9 yr old the other is 41 this year,,,, yep forty bleed'in one...I was given it, and I’ve now owned it for 16 yr and before ya start, I ain’t some sorta flash-git having two cars, cuz neither of them are worth the price of a rag-mans balloon.... ahem… and I’m not a tight-wad either … eek, honestly….. I just believe in making things last, that all…. " ohhh that makes my 1980 escort seem faily new lol | |||
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" Have i gone too deep?" You can never go deep enough for most ladies... | |||
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" Have i gone too deep?" Not deep enough… you’re selective skimming and cherry picking nostalgia. You are forgetting it was the industrial revolution which separated many families as people moved away from their rural communities. Whilst communities exist in cities, they evolved. People didn’t move to squalid over cramped city dwellings because they had cars… they moved because they didn’t have cars but needed to find work. They left their aunt and uncle back in the village. Communities continue to evolve… just look at the internet. People who don’t know the name of the person who lives next door but one, yet talk and feel a connection with randoms from all over the country. Should we be giving up this as well as the car in order to rebuild communication with people in the street? | |||
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" Go by car....no mile walk to the bus stop along country lanes without paths...petrol cost around £2.90. Factor in insurance, tax, servicing and your weekly payments on the car or the pro rata cost of the car over the time you own it. Not forgetting how much you get shafted whenit breaks down once ayear ( at least )" None of that applies to me as my company provides me with a car which I need to do my job which enables me to pay taxes etc etc - what are your thoughts on the aviation industry? Would you prefer people not to fly either? Cars are an integral part of society like it or not. Z | |||
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" None of that applies to me as my company provides me with a car which I need to do my job which enables me to pay taxes etc etc - what are your thoughts on the aviation industry? Would you prefer people not to fly either? Cars are an integral part of society like it or not. Z" I agree cars are an integral part of society. But what a society. People queuing in car parks at supermarkets etc, so they can be 10 yards from the door, when 30 yards away there are spaces. Is that not odd? Please dont defend them on the basis of "its raining", "they're old", "they have kids", because that may apply but you know it doesn't to most of the offenders. As for Aviation, I dont have any arguments for or against. My god, without them how would we be able to take our precious two week break in the sun that we work towards all year. Barry. | |||
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"I cant argue with the figures. Yes car travel is cheaper and more importantly convenient. I think the convenience argument is what irks me so much, so many people forget where convenience ends and laziness starts. And its not just physical laziness. The cost of public transport will continue to rise as companies struggle to compete with cars, so Its a self fullfilling prophecy. I heard/read somewhere that it was a recent ( 25 years ago ) prime ministers decision that the UK would follow the American private car ownership model and hence road building was favoured above public transport infrastructure. So at the end of the day we had no choice in the matter anyway . Barry. " I don't know where you get your facts on a car being cheaper than public transport. Some how i doubt it is though. | |||
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"Wonders what Dogging would be called without cars being involved,,,,…. Oh, I know,,,,, yud probs ,,,, call it “Dogging”,,, Duh….. silly me….. " | |||
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"My final post on the topic, somebody mentioned Air travel. I'm not going off topic, I think its a good analogy actualy so bear with me. Air travel ( holidaying ) has only just recently become mass market, within our generation even. And already people nearly class it as a necessity. Why is that? Ok its relatively affordable, Yes it guarantees sun. However, Did our parents do it, did it stop them having fun and you with them? Whats changed so much in one generation. ( generalising here as some peoples parents went abroad ). Are we choosing the holiday abroad because its all thats available, or do we want the holiday abroad above what else is on offer. Its an analogy, so please dont respond on the holiday abroad topic. I merely want suggest a similarity to to the early years of mass car ownership. That is all. Barry. " Actually I wasn't really thinking so much of holidays with regards to flying - more from a commercial point of _iew - but if people want to go to other countries for a holiday where's the harm in that? A lot of countries rely very heavily on tourism to survive. Stuff can't be uninvented or taken away from people if some deem it to be unfit - Pol Pot springs to mind! My car doesn't make me lazy - it is a neccesity! Z | |||
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" Stuff can't be uninvented or taken away from people if some deem it to be unfit - Pol Pot springs to mind! My car doesn't make me lazy - it is a neccesity! Z" Most people seem to have taken this is the way intended, i.e. thought provoking, not provocative. I have not advocated changing anything. What's Pol Pot? | |||
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" Stuff can't be uninvented or taken away from people if some deem it to be unfit - Pol Pot springs to mind! My car doesn't make me lazy - it is a neccesity! Z Most people seem to have taken this is the way intended, i.e. thought provoking, not provocative. I have not advocated changing anything. What's Pol Pot? " Tell me that you're joking - please - Google the guy - you'll find it enlightening! Z | |||
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" Stuff can't be uninvented or taken away from people if some deem it to be unfit - Pol Pot springs to mind! My car doesn't make me lazy - it is a neccesity! Z Most people seem to have taken this is the way intended, i.e. thought provoking, not provocative. I have not advocated changing anything. What's Pol Pot? Tell me that you're joking - please - Google the guy - you'll find it enlightening! Z" 2.5 million people's families might just remember him. | |||
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" Stuff can't be uninvented or taken away from people if some deem it to be unfit - Pol Pot springs to mind! My car doesn't make me lazy - it is a neccesity! Z Most people seem to have taken this is the way intended, i.e. thought provoking, not provocative. I have not advocated changing anything. What's Pol Pot? Tell me that you're joking - please - Google the guy - you'll find it enlightening! Z 2.5 million people's families might just remember him. " I am stunned that any one doesn't know who Pol Pot is! I'm going for a little lie down! Z | |||
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" I am stunned that any one doesn't know who Pol Pot is! I'm going for a little lie down! Z" That is a shock that Pol Pot has been forgotten in so little time after pain, suffering and hardship the regime casued. On a lighter note, I need to lay down too.. Shift over | |||
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"I don't know where you get your facts on a car being cheaper than public transport. Some how i doubt it is though." Read my post a couple above Barry's... Actual running costs of my car over the last year. If you are one of the people who were duped into buying a new car on Scrappage, then those figures won't apply as you would have to count VAT as depreciation and also the wack that a new car loses apart from VAT! On a car that has lost the largest part of it's value (Mine was £27.000 new and is now worth around £7.000 I paid £8.000) The depreciation is much less. The train figures are cheapest I could find and that was NOT when I would have travelled.. That would have cost £324! The bus far is just the normal bus fare for a trip from Rushden to Wellingborough and I have increased the car "pence per mile" figure to account for shorter journeys. But with the bus, I didn't take into account walking to the bus stop, waiting about for the bus and carrying bags of shopping on the return journey!!! | |||
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"Sorry Barry, just reread your OP - and the thread has been thought provoking - I am sure that loads of people are now considering moving home to be closer to where they work so that they don't need to drive. Z" Have you understood my confusion in the orginal post. To me how people use cars doesn't make sense. Its car first, everything else follows. Instead you have chosen to goad me, thinking perhaps that I'm some anti car greenpeace activist. Have you presented a good case like others. Has my confusion been clarified.. No. I'm just angry with the same lack of attachment to a car. Hopefully I'll piss somebody off later and they will feel angry too. I would swear but I wouldn't give you the satisfaction. Barry. | |||
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"Sorry Barry, just reread your OP - and the thread has been thought provoking - I am sure that loads of people are now considering moving home to be closer to where they work so that they don't need to drive. Z Have you understood my confusion in the orginal post. To me how people use cars doesn't make sense. Its car first, everything else follows. Instead you have chosen to goad me, thinking perhaps that I'm some anti car greenpeace activist. Have you presented a good case like others. Has my confusion been clarified.. No. I'm just angry with the same lack of attachment to a car. Hopefully I'll piss somebody off later and they will feel angry too. I would swear but I wouldn't give you the satisfaction. Barry." I'm sad that you're feeling angry and I haven't been goading anyone! And I honestly didn't think you had any confusion in your original post - it didn't make sense but that's quite a different matter and it has created some good points with regards to car usage. A car is a means to an end gets people from A to B - it's that simple nand stating that people should move to be closer to work is an absolute nonsense - in my opinion of course. I'm not angry or confused and have no with to argue but when you post on a forum you need to be prepared to get comments that differ you what you think. The clue is in the name - forum. Anyway, enjoy the rest of your day and drive carefully! Z | |||
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" but when you post on a forum you need to be prepared to get comments that differ you what you think. The clue is in the name - forum. Anyway, enjoy the rest of your day and drive carefully! Z" The majority of the comments differ to what I think, however they chose to present them in an constructive manner. Yours are not in my _iew constructive, more perhaps agressive. Your use of the exlamation mark adds an intended / untended snarl at the end. I could be mistaken. Plus the original question was "why dont" people move house, not "they should". A response along the lines of, "I like to live away from the city because of xyz" would imply a choice and thought. Responses of the type "I love my car and you cant take it away from me" are perhaps my justification for starting the thread in the first place. So can the forum vote on who thinks the following posts were indeed meant to goad rather than communicate information. "I totally agree with you, lets all sell our cars and get a horse and trap each - there's a little thing called 'progress' that goes on all the time, if you don't agree with cars - sell yours!" " None of that applies to me as my company provides me with a car which I need to do my job which enables me to pay taxes etc etc - what are your thoughts on the aviation industry? Would you prefer people not to fly either? Cars are an integral part of society like it or not. Z" "Actually I wasn't really thinking so much of holidays with regards to flying - more from a commercial point of _iew - but if people want to go to other countries for a holiday where's the harm in that? A lot of countries rely very heavily on tourism to survive. Stuff can't be uninvented or taken away from people if some deem it to be unfit - Pol Pot springs to mind! My car doesn't make me lazy - it is a neccesity! Z" "Sorry Barry, just reread your OP - and the thread has been thought provoking - I am sure that loads of people are now considering moving home to be closer to where they work so that they don't need to drive. Z" C'mon somebody back me up, dont make me think my understanding of punctuation and the english language is flawed. If it is, then I will happily never post again because I obviously lack the language skills to understand what is being said. Barry. | |||
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"too many people get away with dropping one liners for my liking. Barry. " Like "Who's Pol Pot"? | |||
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"pol pot was a cambodian dictator." Whoops - I thought it was ovenwear. | |||
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"Zoe.. I think you are too soft, you said (typed) nothing that was offensive or even rude! You just stated an opinion, but because this guy bleats, you say sorry? I think there was the implication that people should move to enable them to get rid of their cars and for someone who thinks it is good to be able to fly, I found a bit strange. But he is entitled to his opinion too I am not so forgiving! So OP.. Pick ya toys up and don't throw em out of the pram again!!! This kitchen can get very hot, if it's too much for you, perhaps you should stay in the dining room! " Thanks Rumour, I felt that this was getting out of hand and although I know I did nothing out of order, wanted to retain my dignity! (! meant as it was intended) - Anyway, I got confused and thought it was Thursday yesterday! lol - you know what I mean. Take care, Z | |||
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"Zoe.. I think you are too soft, you said (typed) nothing that was offensive or even rude! You just stated an opinion, but because this guy bleats, you say sorry? I think there was the implication that people should move to enable them to get rid of their cars and for someone who thinks it is good to be able to fly, I found a bit strange. But he is entitled to his opinion too I am not so forgiving! So OP.. Pick ya toys up and don't throw em out of the pram again!!! This kitchen can get very hot, if it's too much for you, perhaps you should stay in the dining room! Thanks Rumour, I felt that this was getting out of hand and although I know I did nothing out of order, wanted to retain my dignity! (! meant as it was intended) - Anyway, I got confused and thought it was Thursday yesterday! lol - you know what I mean. Take care, Z" We have never seen you come even close to losing your dignity. But fully understand what you mean. x | |||
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" I learnt from that....when someone gets a bee in their bonnet about their personal crusade on saving the planet they cannot see the other side of the argument." I think you may have misunderstood my motivation in posting. I was trying to point out the social impact of car ownership. The environmental effects are sombeody elses bandwagon. I really di think I had an interesting insight into other aspects of the impact cars have. The Anitsocial behaviour point didn;t ven get a mention and yet that is probably the one I think is most valid. The point about drivinf to work was just an observation on something I thought very odd. I thought people had maybe lost sight of the time they are wasting which could be spent at home with their kids or relaxing. Not forgetting the freedom to socialise with collegues. No environmental sentiments to be seen. I'm a realist, I drive a car when I have to, but I choose my job so that I do not have to drive. I think you have hit the nail on the head and the reason for the descent into bitchyness. I guess most people thought this was an environmental crusade. So to those people that thought I was a loony, read the original post again with the social impact aspect in mind and think on that. Barry. | |||
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