FabSwingers.com forum: Health and Safety gone mad, hit a new low this week?

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

The H&S report into the Spanish woman who lost an eye, and ultimately her life, after crashing an F1 car into a parked lorry includes the following :

"De Villota was sent instructions from the race engineer on the day, but they did not include anything about stopping the car or which gears should be selected when arriving in the temporary pit lane."

and

"Marussia, owned by Manor Grand Prix Racing, was "relying on the skill and experience of the driver".

Precisely. Even i can stop a car.

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By *az_1976Man
over a year ago

Peterborough/Huntingdon

The H&S report into the Spanish woman who lost an eye, and ultimately her life, after crashing an F1 car into a parked lorry includes the following :

and

"Marussia, owned by Manor Grand Prix Racing, was "relying on the skill and experience of the driver".

Precisely. Even i can stop a car. "

I would argue this is not a normal car. I guarantee you couldn't even get it moving. No offence but I don't think you know what you're talking about

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By *horltzMan
over a year ago

heysham

The H&S report into the Spanish woman who lost an eye, and ultimately her life, after crashing an F1 car into a parked lorry includes the following :

and

"Marussia, owned by Manor Grand Prix Racing, was "relying on the skill and experience of the driver".

Precisely. Even i can stop a car.

I would argue this is not a normal car. I guarantee you couldn't even get it moving. No offence but I don't think you know what you're talking about"

But surely once you get it going , stopping is just a matter of pressing the brake

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By *angerousEyesMan
over a year ago

weston

Maybe read a little more of this, at first glance it seems stupid but its not like driving a normal car.

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By *angerousEyesMan
over a year ago

weston

[Removed by poster at 27/06/15 23:56:37]

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By *angerousEyesMan
over a year ago

weston

The H&S report into the Spanish woman who lost an eye, and ultimately her life, after crashing an F1 car into a parked lorry includes the following :

and

"Marussia, owned by Manor Grand Prix Racing, was "relying on the skill and experience of the driver".

Precisely. Even i can stop a car.

I would argue this is not a normal car. I guarantee you couldn't even get it moving. No offence but I don't think you know what you're talking about

But surely once you get it going , stopping is just a matter of pressing the brake"

Nope.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

Part of the purpose of these reports is to state the obvious. You'd be surprised at how many people don't know what others take as obvious and commonsense.

Plus, as others have said, it's not a standard car.

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By *az_1976Man
over a year ago

Peterborough/Huntingdon

Quote "As the gears were engaged and the car was fitted with engine idle control, designed to maintain revs at about 4,100 rpm to avoid damage, it was essentially "fighting" De Villota and she was "pushed" along the runway into the lorry, the report said.

De Villota pressed a button to unlock the clutch and disengage the gears before the crash, but nothing happened. A gear change from second to first was also rejected by the engine idle control, the documents added.

She had previously told engineers she could not operate the clutch when the steering wheel was at full-lock, which it was at the time of the crash.

Does this sound like a Ford Mondeo?

Seriously people, understand your subject before you rant about it

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

No, it's not a normal car but it's not as though she'd just arrived from passing her driving test in a clapped out Panda.

ANYONE considered suitable for testing an F1 car has surely come from a background of race car driving. Most if not all have brakes.

Presumably she'd used the brakes at some point in lapping the track?

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By *ola cubesMan
over a year ago

coatbridge

The H&S report into the Spanish woman who lost an eye, and ultimately her life, after crashing an F1 car into a parked lorry includes the following :

and

"Marussia, owned by Manor Grand Prix Racing, was "relying on the skill and experience of the driver".

Precisely. Even i can stop a car.

I would argue this is not a normal car. I guarantee you couldn't even get it moving. No offence but I don't think you know what you're talking about

But surely once you get it going , stopping is just a matter of pressing the brake

Nope."

these cars are more akin to aircraft than a ford focus

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By *angerousEyesMan
over a year ago

weston

No, it's not a normal car but it's not as though she'd just arrived from passing her driving test in a clapped out Panda.

ANYONE considered suitable for testing an F1 car has surely come from a background of race car driving. Most if not all have brakes.

Presumably she'd used the brakes at some point in lapping the track?

Read the post above. Its not like a normal car it's superior computer overrides human interaction. Welcome to johnny cab.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

No, it's not a normal car but it's not as though she'd just arrived from passing her driving test in a clapped out Panda.

ANYONE considered suitable for testing an F1 car has surely come from a background of race car driving. Most if not all have brakes.

Presumably she'd used the brakes at some point in lapping the track?

Reading the post from Daz (above yours) it sounds like she had mentioned problems.

I don't understand why people slate H&S, all they are doing is investigating where there has been injury and/or death and suggesting how to avoid the same again.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

so this thread is not about how those elf n safety types have destroyed childhood by banning conkers ..?

oh..

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By *az_1976Man
over a year ago

Peterborough/Huntingdon

"so this thread is not about how those elf n safety types have destroyed childhood by banning conkers ..?

oh.."

I agree, this is H&S gone mad, as it has across the board. However this case doesn't count

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"so this thread is not about how those elf n safety types have destroyed childhood by banning conkers ..?

oh..

I agree, this is H&S gone mad, as it has across the board. However this case doesn't count"

Odd. That would suggest you are OK with the risk of a child losing an eye but not with an experienced race driver doing likewise. But what do i know.

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By *yrdwomanWoman
over a year ago

Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum

Its a H&S safety report to find out what went wrong after a highly unique situation. They're not talking about banning snowball fights

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Another case of someone reading the headline designed to sensationalise the story, then not bothering to read why she may not be able to stop it by pressing the brakes.

Short attention span ?

Who said tha ohhhh shiney shiney

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Plus it was having this loader sitting trackside with it's floor sitting level that killed her, she could have driven straight into a brick wall at 60mph and got out embarrased, but ram a helmet against a sharp edge at 10mph and it will break.

Lorry should have had floor folded up, and should have been behind barriers.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"so this thread is not about how those elf n safety types have destroyed childhood by banning conkers ..?

oh..

I agree, this is H&S gone mad, as it has across the board. However this case doesn't count

Odd. That would suggest you are OK with the risk of a child losing an eye but not with an experienced race driver doing likewise. But what do i know. "

I haven't read the thread - but an experienced racing driver not knowing when to hit the brake is a H&S issue?

Was this in The Sun?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"so this thread is not about how those elf n safety types have destroyed childhood by banning conkers ..?

oh..

I agree, this is H&S gone mad, as it has across the board. However this case doesn't count

Odd. That would suggest you are OK with the risk of a child losing an eye but not with an experienced race driver doing likewise. But what do i know. "

But experience doesn't really count for anything if you don't know the unique control system or in this case you can't reach the button....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"so this thread is not about how those elf n safety types have destroyed childhood by banning conkers ..?

oh..

I agree, this is H&S gone mad, as it has across the board. However this case doesn't count

Odd. That would suggest you are OK with the risk of a child losing an eye but not with an experienced race driver doing likewise. But what do i know.

I haven't read the thread - but an experienced racing driver not knowing when to hit the brake is a H&S issue?

Was this in The Sun?

Right these engines aren't really designed to go slow. This one had its idle speed set at 4krpm and the computer was locking her into second gear she also could not engage the clutch.

So this car is driving forward with a pretty significant pace. It's like trying to brake while keeping your foot on the accelerator it doesn't work as well as it should.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"so this thread is not about how those elf n safety types have destroyed childhood by banning conkers ..?

oh..

I agree, this is H&S gone mad, as it has across the board. However this case doesn't count

Odd. That would suggest you are OK with the risk of a child losing an eye but not with an experienced race driver doing likewise. But what do i know.

I haven't read the thread - but an experienced racing driver not knowing when to hit the brake is a H&S issue?

Was this in The Sun?

Right these engines aren't really designed to go slow. This one had its idle speed set at 4krpm and the computer was locking her into second gear she also could not engage the clutch.

So this car is driving forward with a pretty significant pace. It's like trying to brake while keeping your foot on the accelerator it doesn't work as well as it

should."

Right, I kind of understand that having experienced an accelerator jamming against the floor on a motorway.

H&S should therefore presume ........

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I never drove these cars but make component for them and Marussia are a low budget team. Although their budget is millions it runs on a shoestring, and alas things go wrong, more often as parts are not tested and developed. This is not a slight against Marussia, that car would have been put together with the utmost of care.

Don't mean this derogatory but her test was merely a publicity stunt that went incredibly wrong, no question she could drive a car, but these beasts really are hard for a beginner, and I'm reliably informed that as soon as you get into one, you are a beginner no matter what you drove before. They are made twitchy and the power to weight ratio is like putting a moped engine on a pair of roller skates.

The fact is she and thousands of other risk their all for a chance, tragic accident.

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By *umpkinMan
over a year ago

near the sounds of the wimborne quarter jack!

No, it's not a normal car but it's not as though she'd just arrived from passing her driving test in a clapped out Panda.

ANYONE considered suitable for testing an F1 car has surely come from a background of race car driving.............

Exactly! Those that race them have to hold a "super licence" so anyone even testing them regularly must have a bloody sound racing background to start with! Anyone remember Richard Hammond`s attempt at driving an F1 car?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I hate the phrase 'health and safety gone mad' but surely ot can only apply to recommendations rather than random paragraphs extracted from a report tvat is likely several hundred pages long.

OP as others have said all this thread really does is highlight your own lack of understanding of what is found in an HSE report

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Plus it was having this loader sitting trackside with it's floor sitting level that killed her, she could have driven straight into a brick wall at 60mph and got out embarrased, but ram a helmet against a sharp edge at 10mph and it will break.

Lorry should have had floor folded up, and should have been behind barriers."

You obviously have little understanding of how helmets are designed and made do you....

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By *eavenNhellCouple
over a year ago

carrbrook stalybridge

"so this thread is not about how those elf n safety types have destroyed childhood by banning conkers ..?

oh.."
when did H&S people ban children from playing conkers ? oh thats right they didnt some spoil sport official used H&S as na excuse to ban children from playing with conkers

but hey the headline was in the SUN so it must be true

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

How is this H&S gone mad? It's a report into why someone died. Unless you're a regular tester of extremely high powered racing cars, I don't think this is going to have much of an impact on your day-to-day life

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 28/06/15 09:39:55]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The H&S report into the Spanish woman who lost an eye, and ultimately her life, after crashing an F1 car into a parked lorry includes the following :

and

"Marussia, owned by Manor Grand Prix Racing, was "relying on the skill and experience of the driver".

Precisely. Even i can stop a car.

I would argue this is not a normal car. I guarantee you couldn't even get it moving. No offence but I don't think you know what you're talking about"

We probably couldn't no but she should have known these things, surely you would have experience and training on driving such a car otherwise why would you even get in it

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By *ust RachelTV/TS
over a year ago

Horsham

No, it's not a normal car but it's not as though she'd just arrived from passing her driving test in a clapped out Panda.

ANYONE considered suitable for testing an F1 car has surely come from a background of race car driving. Most if not all have brakes.

Presumably she'd used the brakes at some point in lapping the track?

The key words here are suitable for testing the car, what ever she has driven in the past doesn't matter.

It is like giving an WSB R1 to a person who has just passed his bike test on a 125, while they are both motorcycles they are worlds apart.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"so this thread is not about how those elf n safety types have destroyed childhood by banning conkers ..?

oh..when did H&S people ban children from playing conkers ? oh thats right they didnt some spoil sport official used H&S as na excuse to ban children from playing with conkers

but hey the headline was in the SUN so it must be true "

Don't you start blaming The Sun for all of this........... phone hacking, total lies & peadophilia, yes - but motor racing accidents, NO!!

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"so this thread is not about how those elf n safety types have destroyed childhood by banning conkers ..?

oh..

I agree, this is H&S gone mad, as it has across the board. However this case doesn't count

Odd. That would suggest you are OK with the risk of a child losing an eye but not with an experienced race driver doing likewise. But what do i know. "

i was being ironic which clearly went over your head..

that you are referring to a fatal accident enquiry as 'health and safety gone mad' is pure Daily Mail cobblers..

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"so this thread is not about how those elf n safety types have destroyed childhood by banning conkers ..?

oh..when did H&S people ban children from playing conkers ? oh thats right they didnt some spoil sport official used H&S as na excuse to ban children from playing with conkers

but hey the headline was in the SUN so it must be true "

which was sort of my point..

hysteria spreads confusion even amongst those who purport to be 'of knowledge'..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

if it's the racing driver I am thinking of she didn't die. She died in a hotel in Portugal.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"if it's the racing driver I am thinking of she didn't die. She died in a hotel in Portugal.

Cancel that it was a hotel in Spain.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"if it's the racing driver I am thinking of she didn't die. She died in a hotel in Portugal.

Cancel that it was a hotel in Spain. "

Aaaaaaaaagh, I'm glad you cleared that one up.................que?

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By *inaTitzTV/TS
over a year ago

Titz Towers, North Notts

Someone died, it's not like it's a report into the evils of lego and no slippers.

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By *erbyDalesCplCouple
over a year ago

Derbyshire

This is an interesting thread:

At first I assumed it was some inexperienced driver on a red-letter day. So I agreed the company was at fault.

Then I discovered she was an experienced racing driver, so I thought 'H&S gone mad'.

Then I read she was testing a new set-up for the first time, and had already complained that the engine was trying to accelerate while she was trying to stop the car, and the report was a standard H&S accident investigation, so now I agree with Lickety.

It reminds me of that advert for the Grauniad a few years ago where a black teenager pushes an old man out of the way of a falling piano.

I can't believe the Daily Mail would report a story in such a way as to push their own agenda. Next they'll be telling us all immigration is bad (apart from when British people have gone to other countries, obvs)

Now, what's all this about snowballing being banned?

Mr ddc

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By *bi HaiveMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Cheeseville, Somerset

"This is an interesting thread:

At first I assumed it was some inexperienced driver on a red-letter day. So I agreed the company was at fault.

Then I discovered she was an experienced racing driver, so I thought 'H&S gone mad'.

It reminds me of that advert for the Grauniad a few years ago where a black teenager pushes an old man out of the way of a falling piano.

Now, what's all this about snowballing being banned?

Mr ddc"

Not THAT kind of snowballing!

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By *ust RachelTV/TS
over a year ago

Horsham

Fyi crash helmets are designed to cushion the brain in an impact. The foam part of the helmet crushes, controlling the crash energy and extending your brains stopping time by anything up to 6ms, to reduce the peak impact to the brain.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The H&S report into the Spanish woman who lost an eye, and ultimately her life, after crashing an F1 car into a parked lorry includes the following :

and

"Marussia, owned by Manor Grand Prix Racing, was "relying on the skill and experience of the driver".

Precisely. Even i can stop a car.

I would argue this is not a normal car. I guarantee you couldn't even get it moving. No offence but I don't think you know what you're talking about

We probably couldn't no but she should have known these things, surely you would have experience and training on driving such a car otherwise why would you even get in it

She had reported in a previous test the clutch was inoperable at certain steering positions. ...that never got fixed.

Guess where the wheel was?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No, it's not a normal car but it's not as though she'd just arrived from passing her driving test in a clapped out Panda.

ANYONE considered suitable for testing an F1 car has surely come from a background of race car driving. Most if not all have brakes.

Presumably she'd used the brakes at some point in lapping the track?

The key words here are suitable for testing the car, what ever she has driven in the past doesn't matter.

It is like giving an WSB R1 to a person who has just passed his bike test on a 125, while they are both motorcycles they are worlds apart."

But she's driven these cars before including this exact one.

This is more like me giving the average drive a Ford mondeao and going "right so not all of the Controls will work all of the time, the engine management system is tweaked to override your inputs such as gear changes, and while protecting the engine it will do some pretty unexpected things...oh and there's a specific control procedure for safely stopping the car so the ecu doesn't over ride you.....yeah not telling you that...on off you go! "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No, it's not a normal car but it's not as though she'd just arrived from passing her driving test in a clapped out Panda.

ANYONE considered suitable for testing an F1 car has surely come from a background of race car driving. Most if not all have brakes.

Presumably she'd used the brakes at some point in lapping the track?

You didnt read that article did you , be honest about it. If you did read it then you are missing out important info. for a start she wasnt doing laps.she was doing straight line testing.After two successful runs in the F1 car, De Villota was returning to the marquee garage when her front wheels locked when braking.

As the gears were engaged and the car was fitted with engine idle control, designed to maintain revs at about 4,100 rpm to avoid damage, it was essentially "fighting" De Villota and she was "pushed" along the runway into the lorry, the report said.

She had previously told engineers she could not operate the clutch when the steering wheel was at full-lock, which it was at the time of the crash.

The tail-lift had been left in a position which "not only created the risk of injury, but was also protruding outwards at the level of the DP's [deceased person's] eye", the investigation said.

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By *erbyDalesCplCouple
over a year ago

Derbyshire

" Now, what's all this about snowballing being banned?

Mr ddc

Not THAT kind of snowballing!

Shhh, there are times when it suits to tell mrs ddc that a government body states she HAS to swallow

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By *dventuroususCouple
over a year ago

sunderland

Think the op needs a better understanding before ranting about health and safety.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"so this thread is not about how those elf n safety types have destroyed childhood by banning conkers ..?

oh.."

And the misquotes carry on about H&S!! It was the school that banned it not elf and safety!!

Based on rules introduced by idiots who don't really understand how it works!!

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By *erbyDalesCplCouple
over a year ago

Derbyshire

"so this thread is not about how those elf n safety types have destroyed childhood by banning conkers ..?

oh..

And the misquotes carry on about H&S!! It was the school that banned it not elf and safety!!

Based on rules introduced by idiots who don't really understand how it works!!"

Actually often it's more the insurance companies specifying that they will no longer provide cover for certain claims, and the modern claim/compensation culture.

But as you say, it's easier to blame the HSA

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"so this thread is not about how those elf n safety types have destroyed childhood by banning conkers ..?

oh..

And the misquotes carry on about H&S!! It was the school that banned it not elf and safety!!

Based on rules introduced by idiots who don't really understand how it works!!

Actually often it's more the insurance companies specifying that they will no longer provide cover for certain claims, and the modern claim/compensation culture.

But as you say, it's easier to blame the HSA

Good to see someone on my side for a change

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