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N =10

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

I happend to catch the breakfast news talking about the amount of gcse students that got stumped by a simple maths question,

I hadnt had coffee and it was half 6 but it was something about sweets with this equation

N^2-n-90=0

The way i worked it out was n^2-n gives u 1, factors of 90 that have 1 difference is 10 and 9

So 10^2-10=90

90-90=0

N=10

How can they not solve this

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By *hynot5642Man
over a year ago

Southampton

Only if N=n

If n = say 12 then the equation would become N^2-12-90=0

when N^2= 102 =10.0995

The equation N^2-n-90 =0 has 2 unknowns and therefore would need another equation to determine N & n .

i.e a simultaneous equation

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Only if N=n

If n = say 12 then the equation would become N^2-12-90=0

when N^2= 102 =10.0995

The equation N^2-n-90 =0 has 2 unknowns and therefore would need another equation to determine N & n .

i.e a simultaneous equation

"

Or in layman terms,gobbledeegook

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It doesn't matter if they can or can't solve it... like all algebra and pointless trigonometry they will never ever need it again in their life.. they should be learning more about tax, Apr, and loans. .. that would serve them all better

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Simultaneous equations are easy. Either work it out graphically or by using "the formulae".

I'm not doing it for you. I left school a long time ago. But I know I can do it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"It doesn't matter if they can or can't solve it... like all algebra and pointless trigonometry they will never ever need it again in their life.. they should be learning more about tax, Apr, and loans. .. that would serve them all better"

Trig is pointless? Tell that to physicists engineers and architects.

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By *est Wales WifeCouple
over a year ago

Near Carmarthen

The actual question was

Hannah has a bag containing a total of n sweets of which 6 are orange. The chances of Hannah picking two orange sweets one after the other is one third.

Show that n²-n-90=0.

The answer:

1/3 = 6/n * 5/(n-1)

1/3 = 30 / n(n-1)

n(n - 1)/3 = 30

n(n -1) = 90

n^2 -n = 90

n^2 - n - 90 = 0

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"It doesn't matter if they can or can't solve it... like all algebra and pointless trigonometry they will never ever need it again in their life.. they should be learning more about tax, Apr, and loans. .. that would serve them all better"

Algebra and trigonometry is about becoming comfortable with numbers and how they work, which means that all the stuff about tax, APR and loans makes perfect sense and doesn't seem complicated or scary. So yes, there is a role for pure maths as well as applied maths in teaching: one doesn't work without the other.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"It doesn't matter if they can or can't solve it... like all algebra and pointless trigonometry they will never ever need it again in their life.. they should be learning more about tax, Apr, and loans. .. that would serve them all better"

This

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By *est Wales WifeCouple
over a year ago

Near Carmarthen


"

Trig is pointless? Tell that to physicists engineers and architects."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"It doesn't matter if they can or can't solve it... like all algebra and pointless trigonometry they will never ever need it again in their life.. they should be learning more about tax, Apr, and loans. .. that would serve them all better

This "

Show me how to work out Apr, loan repayments, amortisation etc without using "this new fangled algebra".

Your using it and you don't know it.

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By *ensualtouch15Man
over a year ago

ashby de la zouch


"It doesn't matter if they can or can't solve it... like all algebra and pointless trigonometry they will never ever need it again in their life.. they should be learning more about tax, Apr, and loans. .. that would serve them all better

Algebra and trigonometry is about becoming comfortable with numbers and how they work, which means that all the stuff about tax, APR and loans makes perfect sense and doesn't seem complicated or scary. So yes, there is a role for pure maths as well as applied maths in teaching: one doesn't work without the other."

This

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By *ensualtouch15Man
over a year ago

ashby de la zouch


"It doesn't matter if they can or can't solve it... like all algebra and pointless trigonometry they will never ever need it again in their life.. they should be learning more about tax, Apr, and loans. .. that would serve them all better

Trig is pointless? Tell that to physicists engineers and architects."

This

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By *ent57Man
over a year ago

... where the streets have no name!


"

Algebra and trigonometry is about becoming comfortable with numbers and how they work, which means that all the stuff about tax, APR and loans makes perfect sense and doesn't seem complicated or scary. So yes, there is a role for pure maths as well as applied maths in teaching: one doesn't work without the other."

Quite right .... the problem may well be that the people wittering just don't understand the question, or what it is getting at!

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By *hynot5642Man
over a year ago

Southampton


"The actual question was

Hannah has a bag containing a total of n sweets of which 6 are orange. The chances of Hannah picking two orange sweets one after the other is one third.

Show that n²-n-90=0.

The answer:

1/3 = 6/n * 5/(n-1)

1/3 = 30 / n(n-1)

n(n - 1)/3 = 30

n(n -1) = 90

n^2 -n = 90

n^2 - n - 90 = 0"

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By *aul DeUther-OneMan
over a year ago

Sussex

Perhaps it was the mixing of cases in the equation,- maybe the pupils thought they were different values.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"It doesn't matter if they can or can't solve it... like all algebra and pointless trigonometry they will never ever need it again in their life.. they should be learning more about tax, Apr, and loans. .. that would serve them all better

Trig is pointless? Tell that to physicists engineers and architects."

Ok.. so maybe not pointless to those specific jobs... However. . The vast majority will need a loan.. so if a job needs that as a specific qualification or understanding then only those interested in that work place should learn it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Hello Fab24u,

I disagree, I studied mathematics at school and college s an engineer.

I have forgotten most of it now , some 40 years later but I still have a feel for numbers.

I didn't use any formula to work out N = 10 by the fact that the square root of 90 is approximately 10. I just tried ten in the equation which was right as it happens. This is from a feel for numbers and what seems sensible.

Alec

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

There are two answers. 10 and -9.

Really not sure what it has to do with yellow sweets, though.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"It doesn't matter if they can or can't solve it... like all algebra and pointless trigonometry they will never ever need it again in their life.. they should be learning more about tax, Apr, and loans. .. that would serve them all better

Trig is pointless? Tell that to physicists engineers and architects.

Ok.. so maybe not pointless to those specific jobs... However. . The vast majority will need a loan.. so if a job needs that as a specific qualification or understanding then only those interested in that work place should learn it."

Yep, most people will need a loan or to work out how much income tax or VAT they'll be paying on something. And at the heart of working that out is algebra.

What you're saying is like saying that people should just memorise sentences rather than learning to read. Algebra is at the root (no pun intended) of everything to do with numbers in our lives.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Hello Fab24u,

I disagree, I studied mathematics at school and college s an engineer.

I have forgotten most of it now , some 40 years later but I still have a feel for numbers.

I didn't use any formula to work out N = 10 by the fact that the square root of 90 is approximately 10. I just tried ten in the equation which was right as it happens. This is from a feel for numbers and what seems sensible.

Alec"

I'm willing to bet you got your "feel" for numbers based on having studied mathematics at school and college as an engineer.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"It doesn't matter if they can or can't solve it... like all algebra and pointless trigonometry they will never ever need it again in their life.. they should be learning more about tax, Apr, and loans. .. that would serve them all better

Trig is pointless? Tell that to physicists engineers and architects.

Ok.. so maybe not pointless to those specific jobs... However. . The vast majority will need a loan.. so if a job needs that as a specific qualification or understanding then only those interested in that work place should learn it.

Yep, most people will need a loan or to work out how much income tax or VAT they'll be paying on something. And at the heart of working that out is algebra.

What you're saying is like saying that people should just memorise sentences rather than learning to read. Algebra is at the root (no pun intended) of everything to do with numbers in our lives. "

I have never ever needed to find the value of a letter... as no one gives it to you in that form. I literally ignored all algebra questions on exam papers and still passed lol... maybe I am using without realising ?

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By *dam_TinaCouple
over a year ago

Hampshire


"There are two answers. 10 and -9.

Really not sure what it has to do with yellow sweets, though."

Mathematically correct, but not sure Hannah could have had a bag with -9 sweets in it

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

My point would be why so many students didn't have a clue how to solve it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"It doesn't matter if they can or can't solve it... like all algebra and pointless trigonometry they will never ever need it again in their life.. they should be learning more about tax, Apr, and loans. .. that would serve them all better

Trig is pointless? Tell that to physicists engineers and architects.

Ok.. so maybe not pointless to those specific jobs... However. . The vast majority will need a loan.. so if a job needs that as a specific qualification or understanding then only those interested in that work place should learn it.

Yep, most people will need a loan or to work out how much income tax or VAT they'll be paying on something. And at the heart of working that out is algebra.

What you're saying is like saying that people should just memorise sentences rather than learning to read. Algebra is at the root (no pun intended) of everything to do with numbers in our lives.

I have never ever needed to find the value of a letter... as no one gives it to you in that form. I literally ignored all algebra questions on exam papers and still passed lol... maybe I am using without realising ?"

If you've ever thought what do I have to divide by what to get the net amount, or similar, then even if it hasn't been written as "x=" then yes it's algebra.

My basic point is though that it's better for people to understand the fundamentals of how mathematics works because then all the applied "real world" stuff is easy, rather than trying to teach things like working out tax or interest in isolation.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

There wasnt meant to be a capital n my stupid phone did that for me, all i got this morning was the equation.

Maths is extremely important and with such a simple question the numbers that where confused by it is mental.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Hello Fab24u,

I disagree, I studied mathematics at school and college s an engineer.

I have forgotten most of it now , some 40 years later but I still have a feel for numbers.

I didn't use any formula to work out N = 10 by the fact that the square root of 90 is approximately 10. I just tried ten in the equation which was right as it happens. This is from a feel for numbers and what seems sensible.

Alec"

Il admit i jumped to 10 first but i studied maths and have degrees in chemistry and microbiology that was just my easy way to double check

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"There are two answers. 10 and -9.

Really not sure what it has to do with yellow sweets, though.

Mathematically correct, but not sure Hannah could have had a bag with -9 sweets in it "

Sweetie existentialism, surely. Mathematically, the possibility should be presented even if discarded afterwards.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm glad at school I was taught algebra and trig because in the field of work I do .... Its a must !!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"There are two answers. 10 and -9.

Really not sure what it has to do with yellow sweets, though.

Mathematically correct, but not sure Hannah could have had a bag with -9 sweets in it

Sweetie existentialism, surely. Mathematically, the possibility should be presented even if discarded afterwards."

exactly what I was thinking too..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I gave up maths when they brought in the drink and derives law

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By *erbyDalesCplCouple
over a year ago

Derbyshire

Whilst admittedly I have never used Laplace nor Z-transforms, I have used the sine & cosine rule, and.regularly use more basic trig.

Not important? Tell that to your kids/grandkids when they are unable to get a well-paid job in engineering or a related field, cos sure as heck that Polish chap will have paid attention in school.

Besides, you're all missing the point, the real answer is "HANNAH! Put down those sweets and go eat a fecking apple!"

(We all know the probability of her scoffing the lot is 100%, don't we?)

Mr ddc

Ps. You do realise that £5billion of cuts in welfare are going to come from the fact that the formula to calculate entitlement for Universal Credit is based on Pythagoras, right?

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