FabSwingers.com forum: Aparantly God

By *ensualtouch15 OP Man
over a year ago

ashby de la zouch

Does not want female drivers

I'm of the opinion that no gods exist and organised religions use its name and mythology to manipulate the humans that belive

I am persistently informed that a persons beliefs are sacred and must not be questioned

I'd suggest the recent news regarding a Jewish sect telling it's believers their women must not drive else their children will not be permitted to go to school is a fine example where we really must question the authority and implications of religions

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By *irceWoman
over a year ago

Gloucester

Fluff all of societys blocks on self expansion.......be you ..your rules

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

God and religion are different things. Belief and religious adherence are different things.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Going to keep well clear of the women drivers debate

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Does not want female drivers

I'm of the opinion that no gods exist and organised religions use its name and mythology to manipulate the humans that belive

I am persistently informed that a persons beliefs are sacred and must not be questioned

An instance of radical lunacy is evidence to back your belief? It appears that you might be falling into the same trap. Not all religions are manipulative.

And who persistently tells you that a persons beliefs should not be questioned? Even when I get the occasional visit from a Jehovah, they are delighted when I show an interest and question them.

Have you some sort of conspiracy theory in mind?

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By *ensualtouch15 OP Man
over a year ago

ashby de la zouch

"God and religion are different things. Belief and religious adherence are different things.

Well obviously god and religion are different things

One is a human invented concept with zero collaborative data

And the other has millions of adherents with a huge amount of collaborative data

However we may need to define differant, I will be hard to find a person following a religion such as Islam that does not feel a god exists thus they in such cases are inseparable faces of a metaphoric coin

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"God and religion are different things. Belief and religious adherence are different things.

Well obviously god and religion are different things

One is a human invented concept with zero collaborative data

And the other has millions of adherents with a huge amount of collaborative data

Your title and opening post are that God does not want women drivers. I don't believe that is the case.

Buddhism is not theist but is a religion. It has adherents and I have been to enough pujas to see the similarities with other religious practices across a range of theist faiths.

I'm bowing out now on this one as I have had the merry-go-round of the religion, belief and man-made constructs with you before.

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By *ensualtouch15 OP Man
over a year ago

ashby de la zouch

"God and religion are different things. Belief and religious adherence are different things.

Well obviously god and religion are different things

One is a human invented concept with zero collaborative data

And the other has millions of adherents with a huge amount of collaborative data

Your title and opening post are that God does not want women drivers. I don't believe that is the case.

Buddhism is not theist but is a religion. It has adherents and I have been to enough pujas to see the similarities with other religious practices across a range of theist faiths.

I'm bowing out now on this one as I have had the merry-go-round of the religion, belief and man-made constructs with you before.

Thus the magic word Aparantly

I then make it quite clear that I don't think a god exists thus by simple logic I was illustrating that religions use a god concept to organise people to fulfill a human agenda and NOT that a god suggests a human should do anything

ALL things associated with the will, wants, rules, bla bla of any god concept are inherently invented by a human

I like Buddhist philosophy , I don't like it's organised religion and ritualistic implications

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"God and religion are different things. Belief and religious adherence are different things.

Well obviously god and religion are different things

One is a human invented concept with zero collaborative data

And the other has millions of adherents with a huge amount of collaborative data

Your title and opening post are that God does not want women drivers. I don't believe that is the case.

Buddhism is not theist but is a religion. It has adherents and I have been to enough pujas to see the similarities with other religious practices across a range of theist faiths.

I'm bowing out now on this one as I have had the merry-go-round of the religion, belief and man-made constructs with you before.

Thus the magic word Aparantly

ALL things associated with the will, wants, rules, bla bla of any god concept are inherently invented by a human

I like Buddhist philosophy , I don't like it's organised religion and ritualistic implications"

A god is not something that can be proved in the scientific sense of the word. It is something that is believed in. Faith. Many have it. I don't. But just because you do not have faith, do not try to put down those who do. The world is more magical for belief. It enriches our society, too.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Banning Jewish women driving is laughable and has no standing in Jewish law. Just a small minority of idiotic men once again.

Now if they could ban twits driving at 40 mph on the motorway regardless of religion that would get a popularity vote!!

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By *rtemisiaWoman
over a year ago

Norwich

"Does not want female drivers

I'm of the opinion that no gods exist and organised religions use its name and mythology to manipulate the humans that belive

I am persistently informed that a persons beliefs are sacred and must not be questioned

An instance of radical lunacy is evidence to back your belief? It appears that you might be falling into the same trap. Not all religions are manipulative.

And who persistently tells you that a persons beliefs should not be questioned? Even when I get the occasional visit from a Jehovah, they are delighted when I show an interest and question them.

Have you some sort of conspiracy theory in mind?"

I was raised as a Jehovah's Witness. When they come to my door, they get a proper grilling.

I left religion behind first chance I got and never looked back. I do still enjoy a good argument though!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Does not want female drivers

I'm of the opinion that no gods exist and organised religions use its name and mythology to manipulate the humans that belive

I am persistently informed that a persons beliefs are sacred and must not be questioned

An instance of radical lunacy is evidence to back your belief? It appears that you might be falling into the same trap. Not all religions are manipulative.

And who persistently tells you that a persons beliefs should not be questioned? Even when I get the occasional visit from a Jehovah, they are delighted when I show an interest and question them.

Have you some sort of conspiracy theory in mind?

I was raised as a Jehovah's Witness. When they come to my door, they get a proper grilling.

I left religion behind first chance I got and never looked back. I do still enjoy a good argument though!

Good! You do not have faith in that religion (and I DO understand that. My connections there did not result in a positive reaction either). But you are willing to engage. Would the world be a better place without belief/faith/superstition/traditions? We are humans. Not robots.

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

I'd like to think that schools, or those with authority, who are influencing kids not to be driven to school would do so as a methodology of reducing their local Carbon footprint.

As for sky fairies - I'll give them a miss as well as their human appointed representatives. Neanderthals appeared to bury their dead with some ritual, so the religious nature of some may be stretching some way back, hinting at an innate need for hope etc.

I don't need a religion to be a good person and live a life that's respectful of others and the world - it just seems the natural and right thing to do.

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By *obbytupperMan
over a year ago

Menston near Ilkley

O.P. Does it affect you? Have the said females asked for assistance?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This nutty little fringe group argue that women driving "goes against the laws of modesty within our society". A spokesman for the Office of the Chief Rabbi in the UK said: "The Belz Chasidic dynasty has contributed significantly to the rich tapestry of our tradition but this particular view is entirely removed from mainstream Jewish practice."

I'm intrigued by how flawed your logic must be to get from a few cranks suggesting women shouldn't drive out of "modesty" issues... to religion is evil and God doesn't exist. Haven't you figured out for yourself yet the myriad maze of circular reasoning that supports your stance? Perhaps you're too busy looking at others and pointing your finger

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"This nutty little fringe group argue that women driving "goes against the laws of modesty within our society". A spokesman for the Office of the Chief Rabbi in the UK said: "The Belz Chasidic dynasty has contributed significantly to the rich tapestry of our tradition but this particular view is entirely removed from mainstream Jewish practice."

My childhood vicar always said that every time we point one finger at someone we point three at ourselves.

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By *ensualtouch15 OP Man
over a year ago

ashby de la zouch

Think you need to read my op again, and all other posts I've written

Please don't project your vastly distorted interpretation of my words as if they are my reasoning

Firstly it is you calling them nutty ?

Second it is easily demonstrative that they are not the only religious organisation that some may call nutty , I may wish to cite the prevailing Catholic view on contraception, which I think I could find substantial data to illustrate it's "nutty"? View is not helpful in improving health within developing countries ?

As for your intrigue and inaccurate assertion I have used flawed logic, as I say re read my op and try again

My op does nothing to imply one group of religious bigots mean all religions are evil. Nor if you re read any of my past posts would you find something so vague or sweeping

Nor do I or ever have suggest the existence of religious extremism is a reason I am atheist

So no circular reasoning

Let's be clear I am of the opinion that all humans and groups should be free to believe and vocally articulate anything they wish. I don't however think that IF articulated, verbalised, written, promoted, indoctrinated, suggested etc should be exempt from polite, articulate, philosophical, objective examination or questioning ! I endorse your right to free thought and free speech , respect my right to make objective analysis and comment of those

My op was a clear example of one organisation who's beliefs should indeed be queried. That's it

As for finger pointing ?

I'm glad the finger was pointed at slavery, I'm glad the finger is being pointed at female genital mutilation, I'm glad someone stood up to established beliefs that homosexuality should be illegal,

The reason the priest gave the finger pointing analogy was because Christianity appears to preach that we all sin despite a number of so called christian forumites protesting the contrary.

. Christianity is deeply associated with so called morality, right and wrong and rules to assist gaining a gods favour. I may indeed agree that it should NOT be associated with these but I think it would not be difficult to illustrate world wide these associations and concepts are perceived by many who are and who are not religious

Thus it can be discovered across the world a proportion of so called Christians(in this case I say so called as there are a number on the forum who suggest moralising is not Christianity) who do point a moral finger and I guess our vicar using taoist/Buddhist philosophy (it is suggested that actually Christianity arose by borrowing heavily upon far eastern philosophical ideas to soften and give a balanced heart to the tribal bronze age obvious blood cult of Judaism) of let they without fault cast the first stone

To counterbalance the human trait of moralising

I'd suggest I would not say or finger point, that a person should not hold a specific belief .I would however openly suggest and illustrate that beliefs have consequences good bad and a whole grey scale between and it's reasonable to analyse these objectively and from a number of perspectives

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Think you need to read my op again, and all other posts I've written

Please don't project your vastly distorted interpretation of my words as if they are my reasoning

Firstly it is you calling them nutty ?

As for your intrigue and inaccurate assertion I have used flawed logic, as I say re read my op and try again

My op does nothing to imply one group of religious bigots mean all religions are evil. Nor if you re read any of my past posts would you find something so vague or sweeping

Nor do I or ever have suggest the existence of religious extremism is a reason I am atheist

So no circular reasoning

My op was a clear example of one organisation who's beliefs should indeed be queried. That's it

As for finger pointing ?

I'm glad the finger was pointed at slavery, I'm glad the finger is being pointed at female genital mutilation, I'm glad someone stood up to established beliefs that homosexuality should be illegal,

The reason the priest gave the finger pointing analogy was because Christianity appears to preach that we all sin despite a number of so called christian forumites protesting the contrary.

To counterbalance the human trait of moralising

I have to say that I really couldn't follow your argument there but that you did sound as extreme as a zealot.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You've asked me to return to the OP...

"Apparently God Does not want female drivers"

This is your assertion. You'll need to explain how you arrived at it.

"I'm of the opinion that no gods exist and organised religions use its name and mythology to manipulate the humans that belive.

I am persistently informed that a persons beliefs are sacred and must not be questioned"

Fair enough. That's your perrogative. People's personal beliefs are important but they can be questioned. I just believe that questioning is best done in a friendly and charitable manner as it's the most likely to win them over. Indeed, in this regard, I respect your own beliefs... I just think they're based upon flawed logic that's all. I'm quite happy for you to have them... but I'm also quite happy to correct you on them if you believe they are "objectively true".

"I'd suggest the recent news regarding a Jewish sect telling it's believers their women must not drive else their children will not be permitted to go to school is a fine example where we really must question the authority and implications of religions"

You'll find that everyone is quite happy questioning the authority and implications of all religions other than their own

As for this nutty little fringe group of extreme orthodox Jews... they're really only pissing in their own swimming pool with this law as far as I'm concerned... and they are entirely unrepresentative of the religious world as a whole. I agree with you about the Pope and condoms etc... but I'd also argue that Roman Catholicism is not representative of the religious world as a whole. You have to remember that when you refer to "religions" you're including a long list of organisations and belief systems including Hinduism, Sikhism, Buddhism, Sufism, Bahaism, and even your very own... Taoism

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By *ensualtouch15 OP Man
over a year ago

ashby de la zouch

"You've asked me to return to the OP...

Apparently God Does not want female drivers

This is your assertion. You'll need to explain how you arrived at it.

I'm of the opinion that no gods exist and organised religions use its name and mythology to manipulate the humans that belive.

I am persistently informed that a persons beliefs are sacred and must not be questioned

You'll find that everyone is quite happy questioning the authority and implications of all religions other than their own

Taoism is not mine nor do I have many if any beliefs

I understand taoism , and love it's sexual approach xx

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By *oward1978Man
over a year ago

Rotherham

I love these kinds of stories. At the end of the day like most of these things it's just a bunch of blokes sat around making up rules and regulations and passing them off as the word of God, for the brainwashed believers to live their lives by.

If God was that bothered about these things then why doesn't he just put in a appearance for once?! Nobody's seen him for a few thousand years! Anyone would think this religion stuff was all total bollocks of something

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By *uckandbunnyCouple
over a year ago

In your bed

The anti god discussion seems to be a rant against rules.

If there was no god and no religion there would still be organisations making up rules for its members.

The issue is not god or religion. It's human societal nature.

Religion has little to say on many specific issues such as driving. But societies still make up many arbitrary rules. That change over time and geographically.

Take the age of consent. Religion has little to say on it. However societies do.

Religion for most is optional. When you reach the age of reason you can choose to follow . Leave. Or find a middle way that fits you.

No one has free choice to ignore arbitrary rules set up by society. They can leave a society but have to join another.

Religion gets a bad rap when most of the worst religious decision are.linked to nations and national leaders.

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By *ensualtouch15 OP Man
over a year ago

ashby de la zouch

"The anti god discussion seems to be a rant against rules.

If there was no god and no religion there would still be organisations making up rules for its members.

The issue is not god or religion. It's human societal nature.

Religion has little to say on many specific issues such as driving. But societies still make up many arbitrary rules. That change over time and geographically.

Take the age of consent. Religion has little to say on it. However societies do.

Religion for most is optional. When you reach the age of reason you can choose to follow . Leave. Or find a middle way that fits you.

No one has free choice to ignore arbitrary rules set up by society. They can leave a society but have to join another.

Religion gets a bad rap when most of the worst religious decision are.linked to nations and national leaders."

I broadly agree with this sentiment .

My simplistic perspective is that there are too many rules period

I feel it is reasonable and objective to perpetually examin the rules we have and the sub rules that all organisations of influence, political parties, governments, work places, religions, suggest or try to enforce

The reason religions perhaps go to top of pile is possibly two fold

Maybe it can be illustrated that when a set of ethics are said to be the wishes of a superior being the human mind is more susceptible to manipulation

But for me it's the nonsense idea that is often promoted that a religion is sacred and that an unsubstantiated belief should not be examined

To me Christianity, taoism, rahism, Hinduism, Islam are no more or less immune to reasoned scrutiny than, ukip, tories, green party, Stephen hawking, Einstein, the royal society, my council, schools, or a work place

In all we will philosophically find to vastly varying degrees good stuff bad stuff and indifferent

I'm an atheist I can't be anti god xx

I said in the op

"Aparantly god "

Which a, was obviously ironic

And b, someone on the news said the biggoted men of the Jewish sect believed god would not approve of the immodesty of women driving

I did not know if what they said held truth thus the correct use of the word apparently

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Taoism is not mine nor do I have many if any beliefs

I understand taoism , and love it's sexual approach xx"

Aren't you thinking of tantra?

I didn't think Taosim had any particular sexual approach but you might correct me on that... I'd be interested to know. As for not having any beliefs... I'm guessing you're pretty confident the sun will rise tomorrow

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Still lost.

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By *ensualtouch15 OP Man
over a year ago

ashby de la zouch

"Taoism is not mine nor do I have many if any beliefs

I understand taoism , and love it's sexual approach xx

Aren't you thinking of tantra?

The tao predates tantra xx

And no I don't believe the sun will rise tomorrow , I'm perfectly aware that statistically it's possible that as the earth rotates something could happen to prevent us seeing the sun xx

I have observations and experimental evidence that statistically conclude it would be unlikely for earth to stop rotating before tomorrow, I cite angular momentum for this

However there are indeed unknowns so a position of belief is not one i hold . I don't know that the speed of light cannot be exceeded thus I cannot know an object will not appear that cannot as yet be seen

Rather than belief i choose logical semantics and understanding of concepts

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Live and let live, if it works for their society, so what, tired of people knocking others beliefs, if you want to be an atheist, that's fine, but keep it to yourself

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Taoism is not mine nor do I have many if any beliefs

I understand taoism , and love it's sexual approach xx

Aren't you thinking of tantra?

The tao predates tantra xx

And no I don't believe the sun will rise tomorrow , I'm perfectly aware that statistically it's possible that as the earth rotates something could happen to prevent us seeing the sun xx

I have observations and experimental evidence that statistically conclude it would be unlikely for earth to stop rotating before tomorrow, I cite angular momentum for this

Rather than belief i choose logical semantics and understanding of concepts

Logical semantics? How come it is so difficult to tell what the fuck you're on about then?

Wait, don't answer that. I'm sure the answer will be that you're a higher level of intelligence than us mere mortals.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Taoism is not mine nor do I have many if any beliefs

I understand taoism , and love it's sexual approach xx

Aren't you thinking of tantra?

The tao predates tantra xx

And no I don't believe the sun will rise tomorrow , I'm perfectly aware that statistically it's possible that as the earth rotates something could happen to prevent us seeing the sun xx

I have observations and experimental evidence that statistically conclude it would be unlikely for earth to stop rotating before tomorrow, I cite angular momentum for this

Rather than belief i choose logical semantics and understanding of concepts

Logical semantics? How come it is so difficult to tell what the fuck you're on about then?

Wait, don't answer that. I'm sure the answer will be that you're a higher level of intelligence than us mere mortals."

Yup. I was entirely lost too.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"Taoism is not mine nor do I have many if any beliefs

I understand taoism , and love it's sexual approach xx

Aren't you thinking of tantra?

The tao predates tantra xx

And no I don't believe the sun will rise tomorrow , I'm perfectly aware that statistically it's possible that as the earth rotates something could happen to prevent us seeing the sun xx

I have observations and experimental evidence that statistically conclude it would be unlikely for earth to stop rotating before tomorrow, I cite angular momentum for this

Rather than belief i choose logical semantics and understanding of concepts

What is logic and how are you certain of your belief in it? That's rhetorical and purely about definition.

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By *ensualtouch15 OP Man
over a year ago

ashby de la zouch

The ball floated at the very bottom of the sea

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By *lackbirdtimestwoWoman
over a year ago

birmingham

It's not women drivers who should be banned it's micra drivers #onlyjokingorami.com

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The tao predates tantra xx"

Just wiki'ing this...

Tantra is the name given by recent scholars to a style of meditation and ritual which arose in India no later than the 5th century AD.

Taoism is a philosophical, ethical or religious tradition of Chinese origin that emphasizes living in harmony with the Tao.

Where's the relationship?

"And no I don't believe the sun will rise tomorrow , I'm perfectly aware that statistically it's possible that as the earth rotates something could happen to prevent us seeing the sun xx

I have observations and experimental evidence that statistically conclude it would be unlikely for earth to stop rotating before tomorrow, I cite angular momentum for this

So what you're basically saying is that you don't believe the sun will rise tommorrow. In that case what exactly are your plans tommorrow? Gonna fumble for a few candles and a box of matches?

"Rather than belief i choose logical semantics and understanding of concepts"

You clearly believe that your brain's logic is a greater source of Truth than your imagination or intuition. That itself is a belief... and a rather big whopper of one I'd suggest. Whilst you may feel there is empirical evidence to support this view it is still metaphysical conjecture nonetheless. Not saying that I necessarily disagree with you... just pointing out that this is a belief of yours which cannot be claimed to be a fact

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By *ensualtouch15 OP Man
over a year ago

ashby de la zouch

I really doubt anyone will be bothered to read all this xx

The below I copied from a quick random search

It is something I understand NOT something I believe

It does not date the two and indeed I may be wrong regarding taoism predating or being an inspiration for tantra I'm not going to look it's not significant

Tantric writings, a woman’s sexual and spiritual energies are often referred to as shakti. In Hindu traditions the goddess Shakti represents the female principle or energy. Although the female force, or shakti, exists in both women and men, women are seen as the “guardians” of the shakti energy. According to ancient Tantric writings, the power of the shakti is limitless. Once awakened, this spiritual, energetic, and sexual force can be channeled creatively.

Upon awakening, Shakti rises up the spine to meet Shiva, her male counterpart. Together their merged energies create an alchemical fusion of bliss. Thus in Tantra, the coupling of a man and woman serves to represent this greater, universal creative process, as the intercourse between a couple simulates the creation dance of Shakti and Shiva.

Tantra is not to be confused with other arts of sacred sexuality, including Taoist sexual practices. Tantra (from India) and Taoism (from China) are similar, but are also quite different. Both involve balancing the male and female energies. What Tantra calls the dance of Shakti and Shiva, Taoists call the balancing of yin and yang. Both systems have a goal of total physical and spiritual union. Tantra and Taoism are each an ancient form of sacred sexuality. Also, in both traditions, sexuality is practiced in a spiritual context.

Nevertheless, the differences are very distinct. For example, Tantra uses more ceremony and ritual, while Taoism is more scientific and focuses on the body, its meridians, and energy systems. Tantra is an art, while Taoist sexology is a science. In Tantra there is less emphasis on “controlling orgasms” by “constricting specific muscles.” Instead, in the art of Tantra there is emphasis on relaxing into the orgasmic sensations, rather than tensing in any form. On the other hand, in the Taoist sexual systems, control and muscle constriction are at the very heart of the techniques and principles. Tantrikas may not agree with all Taoist concepts of ejaculation control. Taoists have developed their principles of sexuality into a science that has worked for thousands of years. Taoist masters, who are commonly known to live in vibrant health for well over a hundred years, attribute their semi-immortality to their sexual practices of ejaculation control and in-jaculation.

Because of the differences between Tantric and Taoist sexual practices, most practitioners of any ancient system of sexuality follow only one of these two paths. Few practitioners have learned to reconcile, synthesize, and integrate the two. Nevertheless, the key to successfully practicing sacred sexuality is to use both techniques at precisely the right moment.

Taoist Sexology

Although Taoism (pronounced Dow-ism), as a philosophy or religion in China, developed later than the Hindu religion of India, both traditions embraced some form of sacred sexuality. The Chinese sexual arts were developed by the Yellow Emperor (Huang-Ti) and his “three immortal ladies”

There is more to life than wiki lol

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By *artytwoCouple
over a year ago

Wolverhampton

Some fucking nutters on this site. Stick to the sex it makes more sense.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Taoist Sexology"

Ok found it... thx

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

So you a taoist then? You should mention it occasionally so people know about it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

A god, or gods, will exist whether or not there is a religion that supports them. Their is no scientific proof that gods exist.

Religions are all man made and require followers to have "faith" in the same way as puryeyors of snake oil need you to have faith for you to buy their product.

The men who invented and currently run religions play on the basic human fear of the unknown; i.e. what comes after death? They offer a comforting solution which can only be achieved is you do what they say in life. "You will get better if you buy my snake oil." They do this knowing they will never have to answer for it if what they say is false.

The driving ban is simply the patriarchal leaders of the sect trying to subjugate the female members. There is no logic for it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Shouldn't really tar everyone by the same brush.

What a few idiots say doesn't speak for the whole religion.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What a fascinating thread. It started with a comment about ultra orthodox Jews banning women from driving, and ended up in a philosophical argument about who's sexual philosophy is better.

I just think it’s better to have ideas. I mean, you can change an idea, changing a belief is trickier. People die for it, people kill for it.

Mankind got it all wrong by taking a good idea and building a belief structure on it.

-Dogma.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"God and religion are different things. Belief and religious adherence are different things.

Well obviously god and religion are different things

One is a human invented concept with zero collaborative data

And the other has millions of adherents with a huge amount of collaborative data

Well said. Now if you'd only said that in the first place you wouldn't be being patronised right now.

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By *ensualtouch15 OP Man
over a year ago

ashby de la zouch

"What a fascinating thread. It started with a comment about ultra orthodox Jews banning women from driving, and ended up in a philosophical argument about who's sexual philosophy is better.

I just think it’s better to have ideas. I mean, you can change an idea, changing a belief is trickier. People die for it, people kill for it.

Mankind got it all wrong by taking a good idea and building a belief structure on it.

-Dogma."

Ideas that's a perfect word .

For me it is being aware the world contains ideas and rather than deciding any one is "the truth" which would be my definition of belief I prefer to understand them, their alleged origins their alleged attributes . Knowing that over time many ideas evolve .

Please though, I have not said or do not think taoist sex techniques are better or worse than tantric ones my point is they appear to be an evolution of one another , I have read text that both support and quash the idea that taoism predates tantra

Believing one stand point or another here is for me pointless, it's collecting and understanding the data which in turn if required could form a statistical chance of one idea being a truth, but as one gathers more data usually the direction and the question changes and new perspectives become apparent xx

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I just think it’s better to have ideas. I mean, you can change an idea, changing a belief is trickier. People die for it, people kill for it.

I'm guessing you guys aren't big on Epistemology, the study of the limits of human knowledge. It's commonly recognised that there isn't an awful lot humans can claim to know about life and thus we all must operate primarily upon a body of beliefs. Perhaps the word you were looking for is Dogma... but everyone, including you, has a belief system.

I would suggest, for example, that you are scientific realists... that is that you believe the reason why a scientific theory can successfully predict a certain result is because it is True. This enables you to see science as the purveyor of Truth... rather than just some intellectual game we're playing with ourselves which happens to work out of serendipity. I would suggest that you are probably positivists too... this gives you the belief that scientific knowledge is superior to religious and philosophical knowledge. Finally, I'd hazard a guess that you are materialists and do not believe in the existence of the soul. None of these stances are based upon evidence, fact, or certainty of any kind... they are all metaphysical belief systems... what's more, I'd hazard a guess that you're relatively dogmatic about them... believing them to be more well founded upon Truth than others beliefs... coming onto forums and proselytizing them upon people who believe differently

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I know that:

- some of what I think I know will at some point be proved to be incorrect.

- some of what I don't know I could learn.

- some of what I don't know nobody knows.

My ego allows me to accept new information and update what I know.

What I believe and what others believe is utterly pointless debating because my ego will never allow cleverly formed arguments to change my beliefs without new information.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I know that:

- some of what I think I know will at some point be proved to be incorrect.

- some of what I don't know I could learn.

- some of what I don't know nobody knows.

My ego allows me to accept new information and update what I know.

What I believe and what others believe is utterly pointless debating because my ego will never allow cleverly formed arguments to change my beliefs without new information. "

... Or put more simply:

Rhetoric doesn't trump information

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"What I believe and what others believe is utterly pointless debating because my ego will never allow cleverly formed arguments to change my beliefs without new information.

... Or put more simply:

Rhetoric doesn't trump information"

lol So you're basically dividing all of human knowledge into information vs. rhetoric. Where does scientific conjecture fit into that? Based upon your stance not even Evolution theory could be proved. Information alone leads to very little... it is hypothesis which helps science move forward. For example... cosmologists observe that the more distant galaxies get the redder they get. The hypothesis is that this increasing redness is the result of increased movement away from us. From this hypothesis cosmologists are able to arrived at the conclusion that the universe is expanding. There is no "information" to suggest it is expanding. So are we to assume that Big Bang theory is just rhetoric?!?! lol that's a new one on me. Atheists never fail to surprise me with how they twist things up

When will you guys get it that mertaphysical conjecture and belief systems are just a part of everyone's life? You simply cannot get away from them. Conceding that point actually lends you a fair bit more credibility so I don't really see why you are so ideologically opposed to it

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