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"Best way is we spend money buying British goods...manufacturers need to make more and employ more people...who then get paid and then they can spend money...etc etc. I also prefer to shop locally which supports local employment." British manufacturers are struggling to compete with cheaper imported goods. | |||
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"Best way is we spend money buying British goods...manufacturers need to make more and employ more people...who then get paid and then they can spend money...etc etc. I also prefer to shop locally which supports local employment. British manufacturers are struggling to compete with cheaper imported goods. " Because British workers get paid to much....and there lays the problem... | |||
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" It's going from the poor to the wealthy via corrupt cronie capitalism. " This isn't 100% right. First, the 1% (those who own companies BIG enough for Trickle down to even matter, I'm talking fucking corporations) invests their money in stuff like, you know... your wages. And then you go out and spread those wages around to other big companies which ultimately hand it over to the 1% again. The trickle down happens when you DON'T GIVE THE MONEY BACK. People who are against are those who want life handed to them on a platter. | |||
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"Best way is we spend money buying British goods...manufacturers need to make more and employ more people...who then get paid and then they can spend money...etc etc. I also prefer to shop locally which supports local employment. British manufacturers are struggling to compete with cheaper imported goods. " Yes because we have become a very price driven consumer society. If we made more in the uk the cost would come down simply because of scale. Sadly it's unlikely to happen though. | |||
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"Seeing this concept banded about more and more lately. How would this work and is it fair? " Basically if you worked hard and made something of yourself you should give it up for those that didn't cause you know it's unfair you get nice things as a result of your hard work they should get nice things as a result of your hard work too. | |||
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"People who do nothing but sponge should not get anything surely? It's almost as if people who have wealth are being made to feel guilty for being successful. " Most of the money paid in benefits goes towards pensions. A small percentage of benefits go towards those who don't deserve and no where near the figures either the papers or IDS would claim. | |||
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"People who do nothing but sponge should not get anything surely? It's almost as if people who have wealth are being made to feel guilty for being successful. Most of the money paid in benefits goes towards pensions. A small percentage of benefits go towards those who don't deserve and no where near the figures either the papers or IDS would claim." I have nothing against people on benefits. I actually think the welfare system is a very good thing. I don't like the whole sanctioning thing but that's for another day. | |||
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"Best way is we spend money buying British goods...manufacturers need to make more and employ more people...who then get paid and then they can spend money...etc etc. I also prefer to shop locally which supports local employment. British manufacturers are struggling to compete with cheaper imported goods. Yes because we have become a very price driven consumer society. If we made more in the uk the cost would come down simply because of scale. Sadly it's unlikely to happen though." Not true at all. Labour costs, transport costs etc here still out weigh scale costs for cheap goods. What Britain does well is high quality goods where having people who can get it right first time offsets their higher wages. If you want to make cheap injection molded stuff you can do it anywhere you just need some basic unskilled people to operate the machines and a couple of skilled to fix them. If you want to make a high quality military, aviation or reactor component you need someone who gets that weld, that bolt,that optic right first time as the cost of rework or the cost of scrapping the whole part wipes out your entire profit for that item. that's where Britain's manufacturing is high end engineering and electrical products. Not rave to the bottom mass produced crap, that is already starting to get priced out of China let alone here | |||
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"Seeing this concept banded about more and more lately. How would this work and is it fair? Basically if you worked hard and made something of yourself you should give it up for those that didn't cause you know it's unfair you get nice things as a result of your hard work they should get nice things as a result of your hard work too." Nobody will be getting a piece of our pie! I worked hard to get where I am ok I had a little help from the bank of Daddy  | |||
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"Best way is we spend money buying British goods...manufacturers need to make more and employ more people...who then get paid and then they can spend money...etc etc. I also prefer to shop locally which supports local employment. British manufacturers are struggling to compete with cheaper imported goods. Because British workers get paid to much....and there lays the problem..." So they can afford their rent or mortgages and bring up their children above the poverty line. | |||
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" It's going from the poor to the wealthy via corrupt cronie capitalism. This isn't 100% right. First, the 1% (those who own companies BIG enough for Trickle down to even matter, I'm talking fucking corporations) invests their money in stuff like, you know... your wages. And then you go out and spread those wages around to other big companies which ultimately hand it over to the 1% again. The trickle down happens when you DON'T GIVE THE MONEY BACK. People who are against are those who want life handed to them on a platter." . Corporate giants only have one natural enemy, small companies! That's why they constantly over regulate small business while letting big business write their own regulations. The very people hoarding the money is corporate giants! | |||
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"Because British workers get paid to much....and there lays the problem..." Because the cost of living is too much. £7.85ph is needed but minimum wage is £6.50. This is where some of the benefits go topping up the lower earning families. It's not a crime to be wealthy but it should be to not reward the hard work that got you that money in the first place. 0 hours contracts and minimum wage just a stealth form of slavery. | |||
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"Best way is we spend money buying British goods...manufacturers need to make more and employ more people...who then get paid and then they can spend money...etc etc. I also prefer to shop locally which supports local employment. British manufacturers are struggling to compete with cheaper imported goods. Because British workers get paid to much....and there lays the problem..." No they don't a good skilled worker can be a major money maker for a company a bad one can match their entire years wages with a hand full of fuck ups depending on their project. At my place each deviation can be £3,000 in costs now a good skilled worker will notice say an error in the tooling on the first one so £3k down the pan but not too bad cause he found it. An unskilled cheap worker will just keep using it and potentially do a full run of 100+ so either tens to hundreds of thousands to rectify or the part's deemed too far out of spec and is written off now that's millions in wasted work and materials and delays and hundreds of man hours down the drain. | |||
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" Without the successful people there would be no welfare state . " Yeah but shhhhhhh (it's a conspiracy). .......   | |||
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" Corporate giants only have one natural enemy, small companies! That's why they constantly over regulate small business while letting big business write their own regulations. " Really? Small companies are really the natural enemy of big business? Sainsburys tesco waitrose asda morrisons must be shitting themselves at the trade Mrs Miggins corner shop is taking away from them. Big business doesn't regulate small business, elected governments and Europe write business legislation. And it's mostly written for the benefit and protection of their workforce and shopping/paying public. (Granted it doesn't always appear that way) That's possibly the most daft comment I've read today. | |||
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"Undoubtedly one of the most irritating things whenever these subjects come up is the whinging about what's fair . Why is success chastised ? Without the successful people there would be no welfare state . If you work hard , pay your taxes and create employment you should be congratulated . "That is predominantly an English mentality and is accepted by the vast majority as being correct. There will be people who whine and moan about the unfairness of life because unfortunately there are always going to get a minority of Guardian worshiping fruitcakes who pick up on a theory and decide to worship it as gospel. Labour lost the last election because they focused on hard working families whilst forgetting that people do want to get on life and improve their lot. Labour made it clear that getting on past being a hard working family was just not on the agenda. | |||
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"Undoubtedly one of the most irritating things whenever these subjects come up is the whinging about what's fair . Why is success chastised ? Without the successful people there would be no welfare state . If you work hard , pay your taxes and create employment you should be congratulated . "It's not the success that is chastised but the reward they feel entitled to for it.. A banker goes to work,fails to do his job but still takes millions in bonuses paid from the money his institution stole from the clients at said bank.. Although if you're the sort of person who measures their success in life based on how much money you've accumulated then I can understand why you feel your success is being chastised  | |||
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"I have to laugh at the comment that British people get paid too much. Poppycock. And calling wealth redistribution left wing lunacy or whatever it was is typical right wing crap. Wages have stagnated generally for the lower paid in this country for years. Big corporations employ a lot of people that's true but it's arguable that they pay fair wages. My company sends memos round saying no Pay rises this year as we only made so many billions turnover and so many millions profit. It's all about the shareholders. They sit on their arse while the money comes rolling in. Anyone who Has worked their socks off and earned their wealth fair play to them. I don't agree they should redistribute that wealth at all. I think most would agree fair days work for fair days pay. Currently that's not the case for a significant number of people." Says who? We live in a globalised market and so pay is fairly easy to assess. A poorly educated and low/zero skilled person in the UK really has little to no commercial value anymore. Mass employment will never come back to this country and so workplace value can only be measured by what you can deliver to the business. Unfortunately this means that if you want to have more money, you had better be prepared to give either more time, a better service or an improved skill. Moaning about low pay is one thing, but I guarantee that if the minimum wage were elevated to a living wage then supermarket prices would rise and the "poor" would be just as "poor" after the event. | |||
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"Undoubtedly one of the most irritating things whenever these subjects come up is the whinging about what's fair . Why is success chastised ? Without the successful people there would be no welfare state . If you work hard , pay your taxes and create employment you should be congratulated .
That is predominantly an English mentality and is accepted by the vast majority as being correct. There will be people who whine and moan about the unfairness of life because unfortunately there are always going to get a minority of Guardian worshiping fruitcakes who pick up on a theory and decide to worship it as gospel.
Labour lost the last election because they focused on hard working families whilst forgetting that people do want to get on life and improve their lot. Labour made it clear that getting on past being a hard working family was just not on the agenda. "Everyone wants to get on in life. Just remember that profit means someone else had loss. Capitalism means someone is losing out somewhere. We can't all make loads of money. Labour as always focused on the working family, nothing new there. Just as the tories have always backed businesses. | |||
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"Undoubtedly one of the most irritating things whenever these subjects come up is the whinging about what's fair . Why is success chastised ? Without the successful people there would be no welfare state . If you work hard , pay your taxes and create employment you should be congratulated .
That is predominantly an English mentality and is accepted by the vast majority as being correct. There will be people who whine and moan about the unfairness of life because unfortunately there are always going to get a minority of Guardian worshiping fruitcakes who pick up on a theory and decide to worship it as gospel.
Labour lost the last election because they focused on hard working families whilst forgetting that people do want to get on life and improve their lot. Labour made it clear that getting on past being a hard working family was just not on the agenda.
Everyone wants to get on in life. Just remember that profit means someone else had loss. Capitalism means someone is losing out somewhere. We can't all make loads of money. Labour as always focused on the working family, nothing new there. Just as the tories have always backed businesses."If you took that mentality into business then the business would fail. Ryanair posted record revenue and profits today because they are competitive. We have to be competitive in the market that we can operate in. As an individual you have to be competitive in the job market and once in work, be better than everyone else around you. That's life. | |||
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"A banker goes to work,fails to do his job but still takes millions in bonuses paid from the money his institution stole from the clients at said bank." On the face of it you're spot on. However no one goes into a job intending to fail. A lot of bonuses aren't built into productivity or success, although we can argue that maybe they should be. Many bonuses are related to loyalty or length of service. If someone has a bonus written into their contract that's not related to success or productivity it's a contractual entitlement, so why wouldn't they accept it? This is true in many fields of employment not just banks. | |||
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"I have to laugh at the comment that British people get paid too much. Poppycock. And calling wealth redistribution left wing lunacy or whatever it was is typical right wing crap. Wages have stagnated generally for the lower paid in this country for years. Big corporations employ a lot of people that's true but it's arguable that they pay fair wages. My company sends memos round saying no Pay rises this year as we only made so many billions turnover and so many millions profit. It's all about the shareholders. They sit on their arse while the money comes rolling in. Anyone who Has worked their socks off and earned their wealth fair play to them. I don't agree they should redistribute that wealth at all. I think most would agree fair days work for fair days pay. Currently that's not the case for a significant number of people. Says who? We live in a globalised market and so pay is fairly easy to assess. A poorly educated and low/zero skilled person in the UK really has little to no commercial value anymore. Mass employment will never come back to this country and so workplace value can only be measured by what you can deliver to the business. Unfortunately this means that if you want to have more money, you had better be prepared to give either more time, a better service or an improved skill. Moaning about low pay is one thing, but I guarantee that if the minimum wage were elevated to a living wage then supermarket prices would rise and the "poor" would be just as "poor" after the event." Says me. And your post has no relevance to what I'm saying. I'm talking about skilled people who are being payed less than the market rates. I'm not going to go into what I do for a living but rest assured I am very skilled at it as is the rest of my team. We are reasonably well paid for what we do. Tbh I'm quite happy with my salary just now. However in the rest of the department it's not the case. There is a significant drop in salary to them. The job we do is no more skilled than what they do. We are just lucky that we are more niche if that's the right word. | |||
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"Undoubtedly one of the most irritating things whenever these subjects come up is the whinging about what's fair . Why is success chastised ? Without the successful people there would be no welfare state . If you work hard , pay your taxes and create employment you should be congratulated .
That is predominantly an English mentality and is accepted by the vast majority as being correct. There will be people who whine and moan about the unfairness of life because unfortunately there are always going to get a minority of Guardian worshiping fruitcakes who pick up on a theory and decide to worship it as gospel.
Labour lost the last election because they focused on hard working families whilst forgetting that people do want to get on life and improve their lot. Labour made it clear that getting on past being a hard working family was just not on the agenda.
Everyone wants to get on in life. Just remember that profit means someone else had loss. Capitalism means someone is losing out somewhere. We can't all make loads of money. Labour as always focused on the working family, nothing new there. Just as the tories have always backed businesses.
If you took that mentality into business then the business would fail. Ryanair posted record revenue and profits today because they are competitive. We have to be competitive in the market that we can operate in. As an individual you have to be competitive in the job market and once in work, be better than everyone else around you. That's life."O absolutely true yes. To stand out you have to be better of course, or more competitive as a business. Not denying that. Don't get me wrong I'm not anti making money or anti business. Just simply asking for fairness. | |||
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"A banker goes to work,fails to do his job but still takes millions in bonuses paid from the money his institution stole from the clients at said bank. On the face of it you're spot on. However no one goes into a job intending to fail. A lot of bonuses aren't built into productivity or success, although we can argue that maybe they should be. Many bonuses are related to loyalty or length of service. If someone has a bonus written into their contract that's not related to success or productivity it's a contractual entitlement, so why wouldn't they accept it? This is true in many fields of employment not just banks. " True but there in lies part of the wealth that needs redistributed,why should anyone be entitled to millions of pounds in bonuses for doing or not doing as with the bankers what is their job for which they are already overpaid.. | |||
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" Corporate giants only have one natural enemy, small companies! That's why they constantly over regulate small business while letting big business write their own regulations. Really? Small companies are really the natural enemy of big business? Sainsburys tesco waitrose asda morrisons must be shitting themselves at the trade Mrs Miggins corner shop is taking away from them. Big business doesn't regulate small business, elected governments and Europe write business legislation. And it's mostly written for the benefit and protection of their workforce and shopping/paying public. (Granted it doesn't always appear that way) That's possibly the most daft comment I've read today." . Big business has big costs, small business has more adaptiveness, smaller costs, that's how they get big? I think if you look tesco is currently getting squeezed very hard by smaller companies like aldi and Liddell, which is the nature of free markets! The problem stems from lobbying by the giants like tesco, they don't just lobby to make it easier for themselves they lobby to make it harder for their smaller competitors, most regulation we get is done through lobbying, this is in effect regulation put in place by politicians at the payment of big business. Just look at the banking industry, they lobbied politicians to create the regulation they got, are you really that naive to think politicians created the banking problem? The work force regulation works in favour of internationals again because they can use there might to bypass regulations by moving components of their business abroad, leaving the smaller business struggling with the very regulation that was put in place by their international competitor | |||
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"A banker goes to work,fails to do his job but still takes millions in bonuses paid from the money his institution stole from the clients at said bank. On the face of it you're spot on. However no one goes into a job intending to fail. A lot of bonuses aren't built into productivity or success, although we can argue that maybe they should be. Many bonuses are related to loyalty or length of service. If someone has a bonus written into their contract that's not related to success or productivity it's a contractual entitlement, so why wouldn't they accept it? This is true in many fields of employment not just banks. True but there in lies part of the wealth that needs redistributed,why should anyone be entitled to millions of pounds in bonuses for doing or not doing as with the bankers what is their job for which they are already overpaid.." A lot of businesses have to attract top end talent by offering such bonuses. If you like compare it to footballers wages. Extreme example yes but it's the same principle. It's completely silly but it's how it works unfortunately. | |||
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" Corporate giants only have one natural enemy, small companies! That's why they constantly over regulate small business while letting big business write their own regulations. Really? Small companies are really the natural enemy of big business? Sainsburys tesco waitrose asda morrisons must be shitting themselves at the trade Mrs Miggins corner shop is taking away from them. Big business doesn't regulate small business, elected governments and Europe write business legislation. And it's mostly written for the benefit and protection of their workforce and shopping/paying public. (Granted it doesn't always appear that way) That's possibly the most daft comment I've read today.. Big business has big costs, small business has more adaptiveness, smaller costs, that's how they get big? I think if you look tesco is currently getting squeezed very hard by smaller companies like aldi and Liddell, which is the nature of free markets! The problem stems from lobbying by the giants like tesco, they don't just lobby to make it easier for themselves they lobby to make it harder for their smaller competitors, most regulation we get is done through lobbying, this is in effect regulation put in place by politicians at the payment of big business. Just look at the banking industry, they lobbied politicians to create the regulation they got, are you really that naive to think politicians created the banking problem? The work force regulation works in favour of internationals again because they can use there might to bypass regulations by moving components of their business abroad, leaving the smaller business struggling with the very regulation that was put in place by their international competitor" Absolutely spot on.  | |||
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"A banker goes to work,fails to do his job but still takes millions in bonuses paid from the money his institution stole from the clients at said bank. On the face of it you're spot on. However no one goes into a job intending to fail. A lot of bonuses aren't built into productivity or success, although we can argue that maybe they should be. Many bonuses are related to loyalty or length of service. If someone has a bonus written into their contract that's not related to success or productivity it's a contractual entitlement, so why wouldn't they accept it? This is true in many fields of employment not just banks. True but there in lies part of the wealth that needs redistributed,why should anyone be entitled to millions of pounds in bonuses for doing or not doing as with the bankers what is their job for which they are already overpaid.." Frequently these bonuses are to top up an uncompetitive salary. For example, say the going rate for a CEO in the UK is £150k a year. The same role in Europe or USA is £700k. So how do you stop our top talent going abroad for more money? Simple, you pay them a £500k loyalty bonus. | |||
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"A banker goes to work,fails to do his job but still takes millions in bonuses paid from the money his institution stole from the clients at said bank. On the face of it you're spot on. However no one goes into a job intending to fail. A lot of bonuses aren't built into productivity or success, although we can argue that maybe they should be. Many bonuses are related to loyalty or length of service. If someone has a bonus written into their contract that's not related to success or productivity it's a contractual entitlement, so why wouldn't they accept it? This is true in many fields of employment not just banks. True but there in lies part of the wealth that needs redistributed,why should anyone be entitled to millions of pounds in bonuses for doing or not doing as with the bankers what is their job for which they are already overpaid.. Frequently these bonuses are to top up an uncompetitive salary. For example, say the going rate for a CEO in the UK is £150k a year. The same role in Europe or USA is £700k. So how do you stop our top talent going abroad for more money? Simple, you pay them a £500k loyalty bonus. " Sadly very true. | |||
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"A banker goes to work,fails to do his job but still takes millions in bonuses paid from the money his institution stole from the clients at said bank. On the face of it you're spot on. However no one goes into a job intending to fail. A lot of bonuses aren't built into productivity or success, although we can argue that maybe they should be. Many bonuses are related to loyalty or length of service. If someone has a bonus written into their contract that's not related to success or productivity it's a contractual entitlement, so why wouldn't they accept it? This is true in many fields of employment not just banks. True but there in lies part of the wealth that needs redistributed,why should anyone be entitled to millions of pounds in bonuses for doing or not doing as with the bankers what is their job for which they are already overpaid.." Because in their field - that is how it works. No point in training to be a dentist and then complaining about how much Doctors earn. Banks are multi-national businesses and pay well. You want to get paid well - go be a banker - a good one! | |||
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" Unfortunately this means that if you want to have more money, you had better be prepared to give either more time, a better service or an improved skill. Moaning about low pay is one thing, but I guarantee that if the minimum wage were elevated to a living wage then supermarket prices would rise and the "poor" would be just as "poor" after the event."
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"No matter how you look at it - and without delving into the specifics of everyone's skill sets - the gap between rich and poor is and has been growing steadily for the last few years. The people that we have to pay bonuses to in the banks almost brought this country to its knees, so are they really the correct people for their roles? They should have been allowed to fail as they were in Iceland! Who would employ them now? Oh, that's right, we did! Our system - and globally - is corrupt through and through. The Rothschilds own America and similar families (dynasties) hold sway throughout the globe and we the workers - skilled or unskilled - are screwed! " You cannot compare Iceland tro the United Kingdom. Had the UK banks failed the loss of confidence that the UK faced would have been catastrophic. You think we have austerity now - had the banks collapsed and caused a run on other UK institutions the country would have gone in to meltdown. Like them or loathe them we all need banks and instead of moaning about how bad some of them are - why not take a career re-direction and show them how it should be done? By the way - only RBS and Lloyds were bailed out and so we dont have to pay bonuses to anyone. As for the wealth gap - that has more to do with the lack of commercial value of a poorly educated and low skilled person in a high tech economy. | |||
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"Everyone's getting too hung up on taxing the wealthy and benefits. The best way to redistribute wealth is through correctly applied, regulated but free markets. Let capitalism do what it does,Im not it's greatest fan but it's the system we have! Tax credits are a subsidy from the poor to the rich. If your business can't afford to employ a worker in a free market, you don't deserve to be in business! The subsidy of benefits we give to the poor is dwarfed to the subsidy we give to the rich! Put the interest rate back to a level it should be at which is probably somewhere near 7 or 8%, crash the bubble of the housing market, let the banks which have gambled recklessly fail, take it on the chin and regulate better! And most importantly of all stop this incessant corporate meddling in politics and dismantle this lobbying craze before it gets to late. People will make themselves wealthy when you let the system create!" I own a cafe and emplyoy 2 girls on minimum wage but have to take less than the minimum wage for myself. Are you saying that I don't deserve to be in business, should close the cafe and put myself and these 2 girls on the dole? | |||
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"Everyone's getting too hung up on taxing the wealthy and benefits. The best way to redistribute wealth is through correctly applied, regulated but free markets. Let capitalism do what it does,Im not it's greatest fan but it's the system we have! Tax credits are a subsidy from the poor to the rich. If your business can't afford to employ a worker in a free market, you don't deserve to be in business! The subsidy of benefits we give to the poor is dwarfed to the subsidy we give to the rich! Put the interest rate back to a level it should be at which is probably somewhere near 7 or 8%, crash the bubble of the housing market, let the banks which have gambled recklessly fail, take it on the chin and regulate better! And most importantly of all stop this incessant corporate meddling in politics and dismantle this lobbying craze before it gets to late. People will make themselves wealthy when you let the system create! I own a cafe and emplyoy 2 girls on minimum wage but have to take less than the minimum wage for myself. Are you saying that I don't deserve to be in business, should close the cafe and put myself and these 2 girls on the dole?" Lose one of the girls and pay yourself properly. It's not worth it otherwise | |||
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"I have to laugh at the comment that British people get paid too much. Poppycock. And calling wealth redistribution left wing lunacy or whatever it was is typical right wing crap. Wages have stagnated generally for the lower paid in this country for years. Big corporations employ a lot of people that's true but it's arguable that they pay fair wages. My company sends memos round saying no Pay rises this year as we only made so many billions turnover and so many millions profit. It's all about the shareholders. They sit on their arse while the money comes rolling in. Anyone who Has worked their socks off and earned their wealth fair play to them. I don't agree they should redistribute that wealth at all. I think most would agree fair days work for fair days pay. Currently that's not the case for a significant number of people." By sit on their arse you mean put their money where their mouth was and gambled on the company when it needed money to grow and expand? | |||
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"Undoubtedly one of the most irritating things whenever these subjects come up is the whinging about what's fair . Why is success chastised ? Without the successful people there would be no welfare state . If you work hard , pay your taxes and create employment you should be congratulated .
That is predominantly an English mentality and is accepted by the vast majority as being correct. There will be people who whine and moan about the unfairness of life because unfortunately there are always going to get a minority of Guardian worshiping fruitcakes who pick up on a theory and decide to worship it as gospel.
Labour lost the last election because they focused on hard working families whilst forgetting that people do want to get on life and improve their lot. Labour made it clear that getting on past being a hard working family was just not on the agenda.
Everyone wants to get on in life. Just remember that profit means someone else had loss. Capitalism means someone is losing out somewhere. We can't all make loads of money. Labour as always focused on the working family, nothing new there. Just as the tories have always backed businesses."Haha your living in the past if you think labour are still for the "working" family. | |||
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"Everyone's getting too hung up on taxing the wealthy and benefits. The best way to redistribute wealth is through correctly applied, regulated but free markets. Let capitalism do what it does,Im not it's greatest fan but it's the system we have! Tax credits are a subsidy from the poor to the rich. If your business can't afford to employ a worker in a free market, you don't deserve to be in business! The subsidy of benefits we give to the poor is dwarfed to the subsidy we give to the rich! Put the interest rate back to a level it should be at which is probably somewhere near 7 or 8%, crash the bubble of the housing market, let the banks which have gambled recklessly fail, take it on the chin and regulate better! And most importantly of all stop this incessant corporate meddling in politics and dismantle this lobbying craze before it gets to late. People will make themselves wealthy when you let the system create! I own a cafe and emplyoy 2 girls on minimum wage but have to take less than the minimum wage for myself. Are you saying that I don't deserve to be in business, should close the cafe and put myself and these 2 girls on the dole? Lose one of the girls and pay yourself properly. It's not worth it otherwise " 3 people are needed to run it. So I don't deserve to be in business? | |||
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"Everyone's getting too hung up on taxing the wealthy and benefits. The best way to redistribute wealth is through correctly applied, regulated but free markets. Let capitalism do what it does,Im not it's greatest fan but it's the system we have! Tax credits are a subsidy from the poor to the rich. If your business can't afford to employ a worker in a free market, you don't deserve to be in business! The subsidy of benefits we give to the poor is dwarfed to the subsidy we give to the rich! Put the interest rate back to a level it should be at which is probably somewhere near 7 or 8%, crash the bubble of the housing market, let the banks which have gambled recklessly fail, take it on the chin and regulate better! And most importantly of all stop this incessant corporate meddling in politics and dismantle this lobbying craze before it gets to late. People will make themselves wealthy when you let the system create! I own a cafe and emplyoy 2 girls on minimum wage but have to take less than the minimum wage for myself. Are you saying that I don't deserve to be in business, should close the cafe and put myself and these 2 girls on the dole? Lose one of the girls and pay yourself properly. It's not worth it otherwise 3 people are needed to run it. So I don't deserve to be in business? " Not what I meant - I just think if you are running your own business it is very important that you pay yourself properly | |||
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"Everyone's getting too hung up on taxing the wealthy and benefits. The best way to redistribute wealth is through correctly applied, regulated but free markets. Let capitalism do what it does,Im not it's greatest fan but it's the system we have! Tax credits are a subsidy from the poor to the rich. If your business can't afford to employ a worker in a free market, you don't deserve to be in business! The subsidy of benefits we give to the poor is dwarfed to the subsidy we give to the rich! Put the interest rate back to a level it should be at which is probably somewhere near 7 or 8%, crash the bubble of the housing market, let the banks which have gambled recklessly fail, take it on the chin and regulate better! And most importantly of all stop this incessant corporate meddling in politics and dismantle this lobbying craze before it gets to late. People will make themselves wealthy when you let the system create! I own a cafe and emplyoy 2 girls on minimum wage but have to take less than the minimum wage for myself. Are you saying that I don't deserve to be in business, should close the cafe and put myself and these 2 girls on the dole? Lose one of the girls and pay yourself properly. It's not worth it otherwise 3 people are needed to run it. So I don't deserve to be in business? " Out of curiosity is all your making less than minimum wage or is that just the "salary" cause how exactly do you afford to live on sub minimum wage if that's already below living wage? | |||
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"Everyone's getting too hung up on taxing the wealthy and benefits. The best way to redistribute wealth is through correctly applied, regulated but free markets. Let capitalism do what it does,Im not it's greatest fan but it's the system we have! Tax credits are a subsidy from the poor to the rich. If your business can't afford to employ a worker in a free market, you don't deserve to be in business! The subsidy of benefits we give to the poor is dwarfed to the subsidy we give to the rich! Put the interest rate back to a level it should be at which is probably somewhere near 7 or 8%, crash the bubble of the housing market, let the banks which have gambled recklessly fail, take it on the chin and regulate better! And most importantly of all stop this incessant corporate meddling in politics and dismantle this lobbying craze before it gets to late. People will make themselves wealthy when you let the system create! I own a cafe and emplyoy 2 girls on minimum wage but have to take less than the minimum wage for myself. Are you saying that I don't deserve to be in business, should close the cafe and put myself and these 2 girls on the dole? Lose one of the girls and pay yourself properly. It's not worth it otherwise 3 people are needed to run it. So I don't deserve to be in business? Not what I meant - I just think if you are running your own business it is very important that you pay yourself properly" Yeah and wages isn't the most tax efficient way of doing that;) Hence all the self employed people working under a Ltd company taking dividends instead of wages etc | |||
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"Everyone's getting too hung up on taxing the wealthy and benefits. The best way to redistribute wealth is through correctly applied, regulated but free markets. Let capitalism do what it does,Im not it's greatest fan but it's the system we have! Tax credits are a subsidy from the poor to the rich. If your business can't afford to employ a worker in a free market, you don't deserve to be in business! The subsidy of benefits we give to the poor is dwarfed to the subsidy we give to the rich! Put the interest rate back to a level it should be at which is probably somewhere near 7 or 8%, crash the bubble of the housing market, let the banks which have gambled recklessly fail, take it on the chin and regulate better! And most importantly of all stop this incessant corporate meddling in politics and dismantle this lobbying craze before it gets to late. People will make themselves wealthy when you let the system create! I own a cafe and emplyoy 2 girls on minimum wage but have to take less than the minimum wage for myself. Are you saying that I don't deserve to be in business, should close the cafe and put myself and these 2 girls on the dole? Lose one of the girls and pay yourself properly. It's not worth it otherwise 3 people are needed to run it. So I don't deserve to be in business? " Take no notice. Many of the theorists have no clue as to what people in business need to do on a day to day basis. If they did know they would not spend their life plagiarising the shit that they have read somewhere else and posting it as their own. My bro in law ran a cafe for a while... I don't envy you. Keep up the good work | |||
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"Everyone's getting too hung up on taxing the wealthy and benefits. The best way to redistribute wealth is through correctly applied, regulated but free markets. Let capitalism do what it does,Im not it's greatest fan but it's the system we have! Tax credits are a subsidy from the poor to the rich. If your business can't afford to employ a worker in a free market, you don't deserve to be in business! The subsidy of benefits we give to the poor is dwarfed to the subsidy we give to the rich! Put the interest rate back to a level it should be at which is probably somewhere near 7 or 8%, crash the bubble of the housing market, let the banks which have gambled recklessly fail, take it on the chin and regulate better! And most importantly of all stop this incessant corporate meddling in politics and dismantle this lobbying craze before it gets to late. People will make themselves wealthy when you let the system create! I own a cafe and emplyoy 2 girls on minimum wage but have to take less than the minimum wage for myself. Are you saying that I don't deserve to be in business, should close the cafe and put myself and these 2 girls on the dole? Lose one of the girls and pay yourself properly. It's not worth it otherwise 3 people are needed to run it. So I don't deserve to be in business? " . If 3 people are needed to run it but you only generate enough income for two, your what's known as unprofitable. Like the coal industry was. Of course we could constantly prop you up with subsidies but just like the coal industry we will soon find out we can't afford to do it. Capitalism doesn't give a shit about employment, it's about capital, it's in the name | |||
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"Everyone's getting too hung up on taxing the wealthy and benefits. The best way to redistribute wealth is through correctly applied, regulated but free markets. Let capitalism do what it does,Im not it's greatest fan but it's the system we have! Tax credits are a subsidy from the poor to the rich. If your business can't afford to employ a worker in a free market, you don't deserve to be in business! The subsidy of benefits we give to the poor is dwarfed to the subsidy we give to the rich! Put the interest rate back to a level it should be at which is probably somewhere near 7 or 8%, crash the bubble of the housing market, let the banks which have gambled recklessly fail, take it on the chin and regulate better! And most importantly of all stop this incessant corporate meddling in politics and dismantle this lobbying craze before it gets to late. People will make themselves wealthy when you let the system create! I own a cafe and emplyoy 2 girls on minimum wage but have to take less than the minimum wage for myself. Are you saying that I don't deserve to be in business, should close the cafe and put myself and these 2 girls on the dole?" Everyone and anyone deserves to be in business if they want to. However given your situation and bearing in mind I don't know all of the facts or details, you don't appear to be in business for yourself, you seem to be in business for you staff. I would suggest that perhaps you don't have a long term sustainable business model. For the sake of balance I wholly understand the sentiment, emotion and connection to staff. They can become like family. One of my worst experiences was telling my staff they had no jobs and I was letting them go. Heartbreaking. | |||
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"Everyone's getting too hung up on taxing the wealthy and benefits. The best way to redistribute wealth is through correctly applied, regulated but free markets. Let capitalism do what it does,Im not it's greatest fan but it's the system we have! Tax credits are a subsidy from the poor to the rich. If your business can't afford to employ a worker in a free market, you don't deserve to be in business! The subsidy of benefits we give to the poor is dwarfed to the subsidy we give to the rich! Put the interest rate back to a level it should be at which is probably somewhere near 7 or 8%, crash the bubble of the housing market, let the banks which have gambled recklessly fail, take it on the chin and regulate better! And most importantly of all stop this incessant corporate meddling in politics and dismantle this lobbying craze before it gets to late. People will make themselves wealthy when you let the system create! I own a cafe and emplyoy 2 girls on minimum wage but have to take less than the minimum wage for myself. Are you saying that I don't deserve to be in business, should close the cafe and put myself and these 2 girls on the dole? Lose one of the girls and pay yourself properly. It's not worth it otherwise 3 people are needed to run it. So I don't deserve to be in business? Not what I meant - I just think if you are running your own business it is very important that you pay yourself properly" Why is it? I pay myself as much as I can., enjoy what I do and take pride in being able to give work to people I think you will find there are many hundreds or thousands of people/businesses in the same boat | |||
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"I have to laugh at the comment that British people get paid too much. Poppycock. And calling wealth redistribution left wing lunacy or whatever it was is typical right wing crap. Wages have stagnated generally for the lower paid in this country for years. Big corporations employ a lot of people that's true but it's arguable that they pay fair wages. My company sends memos round saying no Pay rises this year as we only made so many billions turnover and so many millions profit. It's all about the shareholders. They sit on their arse while the money comes rolling in. Anyone who Has worked their socks off and earned their wealth fair play to them. I don't agree they should redistribute that wealth at all. I think most would agree fair days work for fair days pay. Currently that's not the case for a significant number of people. By sit on their arse you mean put their money where their mouth was and gambled on the company when it needed money to grow and expand?" Of course that's what shares are all about. You put money in and help a business grow. You get your just returns. But then greed takes over. It becomes more about the share holder profits than the people who work for said company. Of course we live in hard times so the crunch will come somewhere in the setup. It's lower wages and redundancies before smaller dividends. That's where the wealth redistribution needs to concentrate in my opinion. Of course I appreciate that less profits might mean some shareholders pull out and the problem gets worse. The service that we offer is compromised to an extent by having less people doing more work. If you knew who I worked for you would understand exactly what im trying to say. I dont have the fix for this im just expressing an opinion. | |||
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"Everyone's getting too hung up on taxing the wealthy and benefits. The best way to redistribute wealth is through correctly applied, regulated but free markets. Let capitalism do what it does,Im not it's greatest fan but it's the system we have! Tax credits are a subsidy from the poor to the rich. If your business can't afford to employ a worker in a free market, you don't deserve to be in business! The subsidy of benefits we give to the poor is dwarfed to the subsidy we give to the rich! Put the interest rate back to a level it should be at which is probably somewhere near 7 or 8%, crash the bubble of the housing market, let the banks which have gambled recklessly fail, take it on the chin and regulate better! And most importantly of all stop this incessant corporate meddling in politics and dismantle this lobbying craze before it gets to late. People will make themselves wealthy when you let the system create! I own a cafe and emplyoy 2 girls on minimum wage but have to take less than the minimum wage for myself. Are you saying that I don't deserve to be in business, should close the cafe and put myself and these 2 girls on the dole? Lose one of the girls and pay yourself properly. It's not worth it otherwise 3 people are needed to run it. So I don't deserve to be in business? Not what I meant - I just think if you are running your own business it is very important that you pay yourself properly" Why? There could be any number of reasons why you choose not to be paid a large salary. Certainly operating a cafe as a Limited Company is one reason not to pay yourself any more than the tax threshold (£833.33 per month this year). | |||
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"Everyone's getting too hung up on taxing the wealthy and benefits. The best way to redistribute wealth is through correctly applied, regulated but free markets. Let capitalism do what it does,Im not it's greatest fan but it's the system we have! Tax credits are a subsidy from the poor to the rich. If your business can't afford to employ a worker in a free market, you don't deserve to be in business! The subsidy of benefits we give to the poor is dwarfed to the subsidy we give to the rich! Put the interest rate back to a level it should be at which is probably somewhere near 7 or 8%, crash the bubble of the housing market, let the banks which have gambled recklessly fail, take it on the chin and regulate better! And most importantly of all stop this incessant corporate meddling in politics and dismantle this lobbying craze before it gets to late. People will make themselves wealthy when you let the system create! I own a cafe and emplyoy 2 girls on minimum wage but have to take less than the minimum wage for myself. Are you saying that I don't deserve to be in business, should close the cafe and put myself and these 2 girls on the dole? Lose one of the girls and pay yourself properly. It's not worth it otherwise 3 people are needed to run it. So I don't deserve to be in business? Take no notice. Many of the theorists have no clue as to what people in business need to do on a day to day basis. If they did know they would not spend their life plagiarising the shit that they have read somewhere else and posting it as their own. My bro in law ran a cafe for a while... I don't envy you. Keep up the good work "If you are in business for yourself - make sure you pay yourself properly - if you are not then why go through all the grief and hassle. If you are not able to pay yourself corectly then costs are maybe too high ? | |||
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"Undoubtedly one of the most irritating things whenever these subjects come up is the whinging about what's fair . Why is success chastised ? Without the successful people there would be no welfare state . If you work hard , pay your taxes and create employment you should be congratulated .
That is predominantly an English mentality and is accepted by the vast majority as being correct. There will be people who whine and moan about the unfairness of life because unfortunately there are always going to get a minority of Guardian worshiping fruitcakes who pick up on a theory and decide to worship it as gospel.
Labour lost the last election because they focused on hard working families whilst forgetting that people do want to get on life and improve their lot. Labour made it clear that getting on past being a hard working family was just not on the agenda.
Everyone wants to get on in life. Just remember that profit means someone else had loss. Capitalism means someone is losing out somewhere. We can't all make loads of money. Labour as always focused on the working family, nothing new there. Just as the tories have always backed businesses.
Haha your living in the past if you think labour are still for the "working" family."To a point you are correct. | |||
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"Everyone's getting too hung up on taxing the wealthy and benefits. The best way to redistribute wealth is through correctly applied, regulated but free markets. Let capitalism do what it does,Im not it's greatest fan but it's the system we have! Tax credits are a subsidy from the poor to the rich. If your business can't afford to employ a worker in a free market, you don't deserve to be in business! The subsidy of benefits we give to the poor is dwarfed to the subsidy we give to the rich! Put the interest rate back to a level it should be at which is probably somewhere near 7 or 8%, crash the bubble of the housing market, let the banks which have gambled recklessly fail, take it on the chin and regulate better! And most importantly of all stop this incessant corporate meddling in politics and dismantle this lobbying craze before it gets to late. People will make themselves wealthy when you let the system create! I own a cafe and emplyoy 2 girls on minimum wage but have to take less than the minimum wage for myself. Are you saying that I don't deserve to be in business, should close the cafe and put myself and these 2 girls on the dole? Lose one of the girls and pay yourself properly. It's not worth it otherwise 3 people are needed to run it. So I don't deserve to be in business? Not what I meant - I just think if you are running your own business it is very important that you pay yourself properly Why? There could be any number of reasons why you choose not to be paid a large salary. Certainly operating a cafe as a Limited Company is one reason not to pay yourself any more than the tax threshold (£833.33 per month this year)." It's not about paying a large salary - it's about paying yourself the correct amount - and if you are not then that would identify something needs looking at. | |||
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"I have to laugh at the comment that British people get paid too much. Poppycock. And calling wealth redistribution left wing lunacy or whatever it was is typical right wing crap. Wages have stagnated generally for the lower paid in this country for years. Big corporations employ a lot of people that's true but it's arguable that they pay fair wages. My company sends memos round saying no Pay rises this year as we only made so many billions turnover and so many millions profit. It's all about the shareholders. They sit on their arse while the money comes rolling in. Anyone who Has worked their socks off and earned their wealth fair play to them. I don't agree they should redistribute that wealth at all. I think most would agree fair days work for fair days pay. Currently that's not the case for a significant number of people. By sit on their arse you mean put their money where their mouth was and gambled on the company when it needed money to grow and expand? Of course that's what shares are all about. You put money in and help a business grow. You get your just returns. But then greed takes over. It becomes more about the share holder profits than the people who work for said company. Of course we live in hard times so the crunch will come somewhere in the setup. It's lower wages and redundancies before smaller dividends. That's where the wealth redistribution needs to concentrate in my opinion. Of course I appreciate that less profits might mean some shareholders pull out and the problem gets worse. The service that we offer is compromised to an extent by having less people doing more work. If you knew who I worked for you would understand exactly what im trying to say. I dont have the fix for this im just expressing an opinion." Don't forget that many peoples pensions are invested in these large companies. Forcing companies to have profit caps, wage caps and dividend caps is only a micro step away from raising the draw bridge and is not something any country wants to be doing unilaterally. | |||
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"Everyone's getting too hung up on taxing the wealthy and benefits. The best way to redistribute wealth is through correctly applied, regulated but free markets. Let capitalism do what it does,Im not it's greatest fan but it's the system we have! Tax credits are a subsidy from the poor to the rich. If your business can't afford to employ a worker in a free market, you don't deserve to be in business! The subsidy of benefits we give to the poor is dwarfed to the subsidy we give to the rich! Put the interest rate back to a level it should be at which is probably somewhere near 7 or 8%, crash the bubble of the housing market, let the banks which have gambled recklessly fail, take it on the chin and regulate better! And most importantly of all stop this incessant corporate meddling in politics and dismantle this lobbying craze before it gets to late. People will make themselves wealthy when you let the system create! I own a cafe and emplyoy 2 girls on minimum wage but have to take less than the minimum wage for myself. Are you saying that I don't deserve to be in business, should close the cafe and put myself and these 2 girls on the dole? Lose one of the girls and pay yourself properly. It's not worth it otherwise 3 people are needed to run it. So I don't deserve to be in business? Not what I meant - I just think if you are running your own business it is very important that you pay yourself properly Why? There could be any number of reasons why you choose not to be paid a large salary. Certainly operating a cafe as a Limited Company is one reason not to pay yourself any more than the tax threshold (£833.33 per month this year). It's not about paying a large salary - it's about paying yourself the correct amount - and if you are not then that would identify something needs looking at." But you make more by taking a lower salary is the point. | |||
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"Anyway I thought the government had starting selling off the sites it bought in the banks for a nice tidy profit now" . It hasn't sold off all their shit debt though, that's still sat there and will continue to cause all the problems we see today until somebody pays the piper, by that I mean somebody has to go bankrupt! | |||
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"I have to laugh at the comment that British people get paid too much. Poppycock. And calling wealth redistribution left wing lunacy or whatever it was is typical right wing crap. Wages have stagnated generally for the lower paid in this country for years. Big corporations employ a lot of people that's true but it's arguable that they pay fair wages. My company sends memos round saying no Pay rises this year as we only made so many billions turnover and so many millions profit. It's all about the shareholders. They sit on their arse while the money comes rolling in. Anyone who Has worked their socks off and earned their wealth fair play to them. I don't agree they should redistribute that wealth at all. I think most would agree fair days work for fair days pay. Currently that's not the case for a significant number of people. By sit on their arse you mean put their money where their mouth was and gambled on the company when it needed money to grow and expand? Of course that's what shares are all about. You put money in and help a business grow. You get your just returns. But then greed takes over. It becomes more about the share holder profits than the people who work for said company. Of course we live in hard times so the crunch will come somewhere in the setup. It's lower wages and redundancies before smaller dividends. That's where the wealth redistribution needs to concentrate in my opinion. Of course I appreciate that less profits might mean some shareholders pull out and the problem gets worse. The service that we offer is compromised to an extent by having less people doing more work. If you knew who I worked for you would understand exactly what im trying to say. I dont have the fix for this im just expressing an opinion. Don't forget that many peoples pensions are invested in these large companies. Forcing companies to have profit caps, wage caps and dividend caps is only a micro step away from raising the draw bridge and is not something any country wants to be doing unilaterally." Yes absolutely correct. The main reason I'm not in politics or a big business man is my sentiment. I leave that to people with bigger balls than me. | |||
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"I have to laugh at the comment that British people get paid too much. Poppycock. And calling wealth redistribution left wing lunacy or whatever it was is typical right wing crap. Wages have stagnated generally for the lower paid in this country for years. Big corporations employ a lot of people that's true but it's arguable that they pay fair wages. My company sends memos round saying no Pay rises this year as we only made so many billions turnover and so many millions profit. It's all about the shareholders. They sit on their arse while the money comes rolling in. Anyone who Has worked their socks off and earned their wealth fair play to them. I don't agree they should redistribute that wealth at all. I think most would agree fair days work for fair days pay. Currently that's not the case for a significant number of people. By sit on their arse you mean put their money where their mouth was and gambled on the company when it needed money to grow and expand? Of course that's what shares are all about. You put money in and help a business grow. You get your just returns. But then greed takes over. It becomes more about the share holder profits than the people who work for said company. Of course we live in hard times so the crunch will come somewhere in the setup. It's lower wages and redundancies before smaller dividends. That's where the wealth redistribution needs to concentrate in my opinion. Of course I appreciate that less profits might mean some shareholders pull out and the problem gets worse. The service that we offer is compromised to an extent by having less people doing more work. If you knew who I worked for you would understand exactly what im trying to say. I dont have the fix for this im just expressing an opinion." But you need to offer good returns to get the investment. Many companies offer share incentive plans for workers but they don't raise much money at all compared to the purchase of shares by large pension funds for example. perhaps of the workers got together and made a concerted effort to buy a large chunk of the company they would be more listened to. But they don't. | |||
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"Everyone's getting too hung up on taxing the wealthy and benefits. The best way to redistribute wealth is through correctly applied, regulated but free markets. Let capitalism do what it does,Im not it's greatest fan but it's the system we have! Tax credits are a subsidy from the poor to the rich. If your business can't afford to employ a worker in a free market, you don't deserve to be in business! The subsidy of benefits we give to the poor is dwarfed to the subsidy we give to the rich! Put the interest rate back to a level it should be at which is probably somewhere near 7 or 8%, crash the bubble of the housing market, let the banks which have gambled recklessly fail, take it on the chin and regulate better! And most importantly of all stop this incessant corporate meddling in politics and dismantle this lobbying craze before it gets to late. People will make themselves wealthy when you let the system create! I own a cafe and emplyoy 2 girls on minimum wage but have to take less than the minimum wage for myself. Are you saying that I don't deserve to be in business, should close the cafe and put myself and these 2 girls on the dole? Lose one of the girls and pay yourself properly. It's not worth it otherwise 3 people are needed to run it. So I don't deserve to be in business? . If 3 people are needed to run it but you only generate enough income for two, your what's known as unprofitable. Like the coal industry was. Of course we could constantly prop you up with subsidies but just like the coal industry we will soon find out we can't afford to do it. Capitalism doesn't give a shit about employment, it's about capital, it's in the name" I don't think you know what unprofitable means. Ok I take less than the girls but I am happy enough with what I earn and don't need anyone to 'prop' me up as you say, or take a penny from anywhere else. Subsidies?? Capitalism?? Sorry, you don't know what you're talking about | |||
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"I have to laugh at the comment that British people get paid too much. Poppycock. And calling wealth redistribution left wing lunacy or whatever it was is typical right wing crap. Wages have stagnated generally for the lower paid in this country for years. Big corporations employ a lot of people that's true but it's arguable that they pay fair wages. My company sends memos round saying no Pay rises this year as we only made so many billions turnover and so many millions profit. It's all about the shareholders. They sit on their arse while the money comes rolling in. Anyone who Has worked their socks off and earned their wealth fair play to them. I don't agree they should redistribute that wealth at all. I think most would agree fair days work for fair days pay. Currently that's not the case for a significant number of people. By sit on their arse you mean put their money where their mouth was and gambled on the company when it needed money to grow and expand? Of course that's what shares are all about. You put money in and help a business grow. You get your just returns. But then greed takes over. It becomes more about the share holder profits than the people who work for said company. Of course we live in hard times so the crunch will come somewhere in the setup. It's lower wages and redundancies before smaller dividends. That's where the wealth redistribution needs to concentrate in my opinion. Of course I appreciate that less profits might mean some shareholders pull out and the problem gets worse. The service that we offer is compromised to an extent by having less people doing more work. If you knew who I worked for you would understand exactly what im trying to say. I dont have the fix for this im just expressing an opinion. But you need to offer good returns to get the investment. Many companies offer share incentive plans for workers but they don't raise much money at all compared to the purchase of shares by large pension funds for example. perhaps of the workers got together and made a concerted effort to buy a large chunk of the company they would be more listened to. But they don't. " They can't afford it on crap wages. | |||
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"Everyone's getting too hung up on taxing the wealthy and benefits. The best way to redistribute wealth is through correctly applied, regulated but free markets. Let capitalism do what it does,Im not it's greatest fan but it's the system we have! Tax credits are a subsidy from the poor to the rich. If your business can't afford to employ a worker in a free market, you don't deserve to be in business! The subsidy of benefits we give to the poor is dwarfed to the subsidy we give to the rich! Put the interest rate back to a level it should be at which is probably somewhere near 7 or 8%, crash the bubble of the housing market, let the banks which have gambled recklessly fail, take it on the chin and regulate better! And most importantly of all stop this incessant corporate meddling in politics and dismantle this lobbying craze before it gets to late. People will make themselves wealthy when you let the system create! I own a cafe and emplyoy 2 girls on minimum wage but have to take less than the minimum wage for myself. Are you saying that I don't deserve to be in business, should close the cafe and put myself and these 2 girls on the dole? Lose one of the girls and pay yourself properly. It's not worth it otherwise 3 people are needed to run it. So I don't deserve to be in business? Not what I meant - I just think if you are running your own business it is very important that you pay yourself properly Why? There could be any number of reasons why you choose not to be paid a large salary. Certainly operating a cafe as a Limited Company is one reason not to pay yourself any more than the tax threshold (£833.33 per month this year). It's not about paying a large salary - it's about paying yourself the correct amount - and if you are not then that would identify something needs looking at." You are confusing building a business and getting paid a salary. There is not necessarily a need to pay yourself a large salary and it can suit to employ others rather than yourself. | |||
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"Everyone's getting too hung up on taxing the wealthy and benefits. The best way to redistribute wealth is through correctly applied, regulated but free markets. Let capitalism do what it does,Im not it's greatest fan but it's the system we have! Tax credits are a subsidy from the poor to the rich. If your business can't afford to employ a worker in a free market, you don't deserve to be in business! The subsidy of benefits we give to the poor is dwarfed to the subsidy we give to the rich! Put the interest rate back to a level it should be at which is probably somewhere near 7 or 8%, crash the bubble of the housing market, let the banks which have gambled recklessly fail, take it on the chin and regulate better! And most importantly of all stop this incessant corporate meddling in politics and dismantle this lobbying craze before it gets to late. People will make themselves wealthy when you let the system create! I own a cafe and emplyoy 2 girls on minimum wage but have to take less than the minimum wage for myself. Are you saying that I don't deserve to be in business, should close the cafe and put myself and these 2 girls on the dole? Lose one of the girls and pay yourself properly. It's not worth it otherwise 3 people are needed to run it. So I don't deserve to be in business? Not what I meant - I just think if you are running your own business it is very important that you pay yourself properly Why? There could be any number of reasons why you choose not to be paid a large salary. Certainly operating a cafe as a Limited Company is one reason not to pay yourself any more than the tax threshold (£833.33 per month this year). It's not about paying a large salary - it's about paying yourself the correct amount - and if you are not then that would identify something needs looking at. You are confusing building a business and getting paid a salary. There is not necessarily a need to pay yourself a large salary and it can suit to employ others rather than yourself. " Somebody knows what they are talking about and thanks for your support x | |||
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"Everyone's getting too hung up on taxing the wealthy and benefits. The best way to redistribute wealth is through correctly applied, regulated but free markets. Let capitalism do what it does,Im not it's greatest fan but it's the system we have! Tax credits are a subsidy from the poor to the rich. If your business can't afford to employ a worker in a free market, you don't deserve to be in business! The subsidy of benefits we give to the poor is dwarfed to the subsidy we give to the rich! Put the interest rate back to a level it should be at which is probably somewhere near 7 or 8%, crash the bubble of the housing market, let the banks which have gambled recklessly fail, take it on the chin and regulate better! And most importantly of all stop this incessant corporate meddling in politics and dismantle this lobbying craze before it gets to late. People will make themselves wealthy when you let the system create! I own a cafe and emplyoy 2 girls on minimum wage but have to take less than the minimum wage for myself. Are you saying that I don't deserve to be in business, should close the cafe and put myself and these 2 girls on the dole? Lose one of the girls and pay yourself properly. It's not worth it otherwise 3 people are needed to run it. So I don't deserve to be in business? Not what I meant - I just think if you are running your own business it is very important that you pay yourself properly Why? There could be any number of reasons why you choose not to be paid a large salary. Certainly operating a cafe as a Limited Company is one reason not to pay yourself any more than the tax threshold (£833.33 per month this year). It's not about paying a large salary - it's about paying yourself the correct amount - and if you are not then that would identify something needs looking at. You are confusing building a business and getting paid a salary. There is not necessarily a need to pay yourself a large salary and it can suit to employ others rather than yourself. " I know all of this. I thought the point about the cafe poster, was that they employ 2 persons on minimum wage, but then can not afford to pay themselves minimum wage . I have made the assumption (correctly or incorrectly I don't know) that the reason they pay less than minimum wage is because the business can not afford to. I simply commented that if that is happening then it is never a good thing to not be paying yourself correctly (subsequent posts identified the cafe owner to be happy taking less than minimum wage, as they enjoy the business, and the wage they do take is sufficient for their needs) | |||
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"Everyone's getting too hung up on taxing the wealthy and benefits. The best way to redistribute wealth is through correctly applied, regulated but free markets. Let capitalism do what it does,Im not it's greatest fan but it's the system we have! Tax credits are a subsidy from the poor to the rich. If your business can't afford to employ a worker in a free market, you don't deserve to be in business! The subsidy of benefits we give to the poor is dwarfed to the subsidy we give to the rich! Put the interest rate back to a level it should be at which is probably somewhere near 7 or 8%, crash the bubble of the housing market, let the banks which have gambled recklessly fail, take it on the chin and regulate better! And most importantly of all stop this incessant corporate meddling in politics and dismantle this lobbying craze before it gets to late. People will make themselves wealthy when you let the system create! I own a cafe and emplyoy 2 girls on minimum wage but have to take less than the minimum wage for myself. Are you saying that I don't deserve to be in business, should close the cafe and put myself and these 2 girls on the dole? Lose one of the girls and pay yourself properly. It's not worth it otherwise 3 people are needed to run it. So I don't deserve to be in business? Not what I meant - I just think if you are running your own business it is very important that you pay yourself properly Why? There could be any number of reasons why you choose not to be paid a large salary. Certainly operating a cafe as a Limited Company is one reason not to pay yourself any more than the tax threshold (£833.33 per month this year). It's not about paying a large salary - it's about paying yourself the correct amount - and if you are not then that would identify something needs looking at. You are confusing building a business and getting paid a salary. There is not necessarily a need to pay yourself a large salary and it can suit to employ others rather than yourself. I know all of this. I thought the point about the cafe poster, was that they employ 2 persons on minimum wage, but then can not afford to pay themselves minimum wage . I have made the assumption (correctly or incorrectly I don't know) that the reason they pay less than minimum wage is because the business can not afford to. I simply commented that if that is happening then it is never a good thing to not be paying yourself correctly (subsequent posts identified the cafe owner to be happy taking less than minimum wage, as they enjoy the business, and the wage they do take is sufficient for their needs) " What does it matter either way? And why is it never a good thing not to pay yourself correctly? At least I'm my own boss | |||
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"The whole thing about getting what you work for is such total shite. I'm gunna do just fine under the current system. I'm going to inherit property and money from my mothers side. I don't work hard, but I do well in life because I'm bright and confident. My dad works his arse off away from home 6 days a week. I got paid more than him on my placement year. We do not have a meritocracy as some claim, it is glaringly obvious. Mine is just a small example. A 90% inheritance tax on the super wealthy makes perfect sense to me. What good does it do our economy to have these people who just sit on heaps of money that they will never use..? " At 24 years old, you are perfectly within your rights to think that a 90% inheritence tax rate is a good idea. | |||
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"Everyone's getting too hung up on taxing the wealthy and benefits. The best way to redistribute wealth is through correctly applied, regulated but free markets. Let capitalism do what it does,Im not it's greatest fan but it's the system we have! Tax credits are a subsidy from the poor to the rich. If your business can't afford to employ a worker in a free market, you don't deserve to be in business! The subsidy of benefits we give to the poor is dwarfed to the subsidy we give to the rich! Put the interest rate back to a level it should be at which is probably somewhere near 7 or 8%, crash the bubble of the housing market, let the banks which have gambled recklessly fail, take it on the chin and regulate better! And most importantly of all stop this incessant corporate meddling in politics and dismantle this lobbying craze before it gets to late. People will make themselves wealthy when you let the system create! I own a cafe and emplyoy 2 girls on minimum wage but have to take less than the minimum wage for myself. Are you saying that I don't deserve to be in business, should close the cafe and put myself and these 2 girls on the dole? Lose one of the girls and pay yourself properly. It's not worth it otherwise 3 people are needed to run it. So I don't deserve to be in business? Not what I meant - I just think if you are running your own business it is very important that you pay yourself properly Why? There could be any number of reasons why you choose not to be paid a large salary. Certainly operating a cafe as a Limited Company is one reason not to pay yourself any more than the tax threshold (£833.33 per month this year). It's not about paying a large salary - it's about paying yourself the correct amount - and if you are not then that would identify something needs looking at. You are confusing building a business and getting paid a salary. There is not necessarily a need to pay yourself a large salary and it can suit to employ others rather than yourself. I know all of this. I thought the point about the cafe poster, was that they employ 2 persons on minimum wage, but then can not afford to pay themselves minimum wage . I have made the assumption (correctly or incorrectly I don't know) that the reason they pay less than minimum wage is because the business can not afford to. I simply commented that if that is happening then it is never a good thing to not be paying yourself correctly (subsequent posts identified the cafe owner to be happy taking less than minimum wage, as they enjoy the business, and the wage they do take is sufficient for their needs) What does it matter either way? And why is it never a good thing not to pay yourself correctly? At least I'm my own boss" It doesn't matter to anybody else other than you. And as you have previously noted - What you do pay yourself is sufficient, and you enjoy the business and gives you self satisfaction. No argument or criticism from me | |||
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"Everyone's getting too hung up on taxing the wealthy and benefits. The best way to redistribute wealth is through correctly applied, regulated but free markets. Let capitalism do what it does,Im not it's greatest fan but it's the system we have! Tax credits are a subsidy from the poor to the rich. If your business can't afford to employ a worker in a free market, you don't deserve to be in business! The subsidy of benefits we give to the poor is dwarfed to the subsidy we give to the rich! Put the interest rate back to a level it should be at which is probably somewhere near 7 or 8%, crash the bubble of the housing market, let the banks which have gambled recklessly fail, take it on the chin and regulate better! And most importantly of all stop this incessant corporate meddling in politics and dismantle this lobbying craze before it gets to late. People will make themselves wealthy when you let the system create! I own a cafe and emplyoy 2 girls on minimum wage but have to take less than the minimum wage for myself. Are you saying that I don't deserve to be in business, should close the cafe and put myself and these 2 girls on the dole? Lose one of the girls and pay yourself properly. It's not worth it otherwise 3 people are needed to run it. So I don't deserve to be in business? . If 3 people are needed to run it but you only generate enough income for two, your what's known as unprofitable. Like the coal industry was. Of course we could constantly prop you up with subsidies but just like the coal industry we will soon find out we can't afford to do it. Capitalism doesn't give a shit about employment, it's about capital, it's in the name I don't think you know what unprofitable means. Ok I take less than the girls but I am happy enough with what I earn and don't need anyone to 'prop' me up as you say, or take a penny from anywhere else. Subsidies?? Capitalism?? Sorry, you don't know what you're talking about " . Your paying them minimum wage which means there receiving tax credits which means in effect your state subsidised. I've run my own business since I was 20 years old, I know how hard it is and what's involved thanks! | |||
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" Everyone and anyone deserves to be in business if they want to. However given your situation and bearing in mind I don't know all of the facts or details, you don't appear to be in business for yourself, you seem to be in business for you staff. I would suggest that perhaps you don't have a long term sustainable business model. For the sake of balance I wholly understand the sentiment, emotion and connection to staff. They can become like family. One of my worst experiences was telling my staff they had no jobs and I was letting them go. Heartbreaking." I'm no Mark Cuban and I have no salaried staff (only myself). But this seems to make sense. | |||
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"The whole thing about getting what you work for is such total shite. I'm gunna do just fine under the current system. I'm going to inherit property and money from my mothers side. I don't work hard, but I do well in life because I'm bright and confident. My dad works his arse off away from home 6 days a week. I got paid more than him on my placement year. We do not have a meritocracy as some claim, it is glaringly obvious. Mine is just a small example. A 90% inheritance tax on the super wealthy makes perfect sense to me. What good does it do our economy to have these people who just sit on heaps of money that they will never use..? At 24 years old, you are perfectly within your rights to think that a 90% inheritence tax rate is a good idea." At 53 you are perfectly entitled to be set in your ways. | |||
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"The whole thing about getting what you work for is such total shite. I'm gunna do just fine under the current system. I'm going to inherit property and money from my mothers side. I don't work hard, but I do well in life because I'm bright and confident. My dad works his arse off away from home 6 days a week. I got paid more than him on my placement year. We do not have a meritocracy as some claim, it is glaringly obvious. Mine is just a small example. A 90% inheritance tax on the super wealthy makes perfect sense to me. What good does it do our economy to have these people who just sit on heaps of money that they will never use..? At 24 years old, you are perfectly within your rights to think that a 90% inheritence tax rate is a good idea. At 53 you are perfectly entitled to be set in your ways. " Just pray that no one on your mothers side needs to be in a care home or needs a care package then, any assets over £23,500? Then you pay for it...and that includes property you might want to leave to children / grandkids etc. | |||
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" At 24 years old, you are perfectly within your rights to think that a 90% inheritence tax rate is a good idea. At 53 you are perfectly entitled to be set in your ways. " School yard retorts lol The very last thing that could EVER be pinned on me is to be set in my ways - and I would love to see the evidence from which you formulated this observation. | |||
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"Everyone's getting too hung up on taxing the wealthy and benefits. The best way to redistribute wealth is through correctly applied, regulated but free markets. Let capitalism do what it does,Im not it's greatest fan but it's the system we have! Tax credits are a subsidy from the poor to the rich. If your business can't afford to employ a worker in a free market, you don't deserve to be in business! The subsidy of benefits we give to the poor is dwarfed to the subsidy we give to the rich! Put the interest rate back to a level it should be at which is probably somewhere near 7 or 8%, crash the bubble of the housing market, let the banks which have gambled recklessly fail, take it on the chin and regulate better! And most importantly of all stop this incessant corporate meddling in politics and dismantle this lobbying craze before it gets to late. People will make themselves wealthy when you let the system create! I own a cafe and emplyoy 2 girls on minimum wage but have to take less than the minimum wage for myself. Are you saying that I don't deserve to be in business, should close the cafe and put myself and these 2 girls on the dole? Lose one of the girls and pay yourself properly. It's not worth it otherwise 3 people are needed to run it. So I don't deserve to be in business? . If 3 people are needed to run it but you only generate enough income for two, your what's known as unprofitable. Like the coal industry was. Of course we could constantly prop you up with subsidies but just like the coal industry we will soon find out we can't afford to do it. Capitalism doesn't give a shit about employment, it's about capital, it's in the name I don't think you know what unprofitable means. Ok I take less than the girls but I am happy enough with what I earn and don't need anyone to 'prop' me up as you say, or take a penny from anywhere else. Subsidies?? Capitalism?? Sorry, you don't know what you're talking about . Your paying them minimum wage which means there receiving tax credits which means in effect your state subsidised. I've run my own business since I was 20 years old, I know how hard it is and what's involved thanks!" Then why do you automatically assume they are recieving tax credits?? Do you know how much their husbands earn? Do you know if they have other jobs? Other incomes? Investments? No. None of us recieve tax credits. unbelievable | |||
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"Left wing bullshit peddaled by the work shy and idle." Ring wing elitism | |||
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"Everyone's getting too hung up on taxing the wealthy and benefits. The best way to redistribute wealth is through correctly applied, regulated but free markets. Let capitalism do what it does,Im not it's greatest fan but it's the system we have! Tax credits are a subsidy from the poor to the rich. If your business can't afford to employ a worker in a free market, you don't deserve to be in business! The subsidy of benefits we give to the poor is dwarfed to the subsidy we give to the rich! Put the interest rate back to a level it should be at which is probably somewhere near 7 or 8%, crash the bubble of the housing market, let the banks which have gambled recklessly fail, take it on the chin and regulate better! And most importantly of all stop this incessant corporate meddling in politics and dismantle this lobbying craze before it gets to late. People will make themselves wealthy when you let the system create! I own a cafe and emplyoy 2 girls on minimum wage but have to take less than the minimum wage for myself. Are you saying that I don't deserve to be in business, should close the cafe and put myself and these 2 girls on the dole? Lose one of the girls and pay yourself properly. It's not worth it otherwise 3 people are needed to run it. So I don't deserve to be in business? . If 3 people are needed to run it but you only generate enough income for two, your what's known as unprofitable. Like the coal industry was. Of course we could constantly prop you up with subsidies but just like the coal industry we will soon find out we can't afford to do it. Capitalism doesn't give a shit about employment, it's about capital, it's in the name I don't think you know what unprofitable means. Ok I take less than the girls but I am happy enough with what I earn and don't need anyone to 'prop' me up as you say, or take a penny from anywhere else. Subsidies?? Capitalism?? Sorry, you don't know what you're talking about . Your paying them minimum wage which means there receiving tax credits which means in effect your state subsidised. I've run my own business since I was 20 years old, I know how hard it is and what's involved thanks! Then why do you automatically assume they are recieving tax credits?? Do you know how much their husbands earn? Do you know if they have other jobs? Other incomes? Investments? No. None of us recieve tax credits. unbelievable". No offence but you pulled my post up where I was clearly talking about tax credits being a business subsidy, then you said you employed two people on minimum wage, so obviously I assumed we were talking about them being on tax credits! The fact remains that a large section of people employed on minimum wage are subsided by government through tax credits, thus propping up businesses, whether there competitive, profitable or not! | |||
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"The whole thing about getting what you work for is such total shite. I'm gunna do just fine under the current system. I'm going to inherit property and money from my mothers side. I don't work hard, but I do well in life because I'm bright and confident. My dad works his arse off away from home 6 days a week. I got paid more than him on my placement year. We do not have a meritocracy as some claim, it is glaringly obvious. " So you get paid more because as you just said you're "bright" that's a meritocracy right there if you've above average intelligence you're a more valuable commodity. everyone smart or dumb can labour but not everyone can be a chemical engineer hence why they get paid more. "Mine is just a small example. A 90% inheritance tax on the super wealthy makes perfect sense to me. What good does it do our economy to have these people who just sit on heaps of money that they will never use..? " most of that money is heavily invested which is beneficial to companies because it gives them start-up capitol, or capital to expand. | |||
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""You can not multiply wealth by dividing it" - Adrian Rogers. 1.You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. 2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving. 3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. 4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it! 5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that is the beginning of the end of any nation. " This. Sooooooooooooooooooo this. | |||
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" At 24 years old, you are perfectly within your rights to think that a 90% inheritence tax rate is a good idea. At 53 you are perfectly entitled to be set in your ways. School yard retorts lol The very last thing that could EVER be pinned on me is to be set in my ways - and I would love to see the evidence from which you formulated this observation." School yard retorts indeed, you were the one who brought age into it. Evidence. Every single forum post you make lol. You are very conservative in both your politics and you _iew of the world. Now I'm not saying that you are wrong at all. I along with many others just _iew the world through an entirely different lens. All I am ask is that I am not patronised or disregarded for my entirely valid opinions.. | |||
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"The whole thing about getting what you work for is such total shite. I'm gunna do just fine under the current system. I'm going to inherit property and money from my mothers side. I don't work hard, but I do well in life because I'm bright and confident. My dad works his arse off away from home 6 days a week. I got paid more than him on my placement year. We do not have a meritocracy as some claim, it is glaringly obvious. So you get paid more because as you just said you're "bright" that's a meritocracy right there if you've above average intelligence you're a more valuable commodity. everyone smart or dumb can labour but not everyone can be a chemical engineer hence why they get paid more. "Mine is just a small example. A 90% inheritance tax on the super wealthy makes perfect sense to me. What good does it do our economy to have these people who just sit on heaps of money that they will never use..? " most of that money is heavily invested which is beneficial to companies because it gives them start-up capitol, or capital to expand. " Sigh. I actually quite respect a lot of your straightforward and honest posts/opinions (as opposed to a lot from "the other side"). They are based in logic, and often insightful. However you often get too caught up in the intricacies rather than looking at the bigger picture. So let me explain. My initial point was that what you are born with dictates what you get out of life, not this fallacy of hard work. Your second point about investment is just wrong. I'm talking about the landed gentry primarily, or maybe if we look to America, the wall-mart heirs. These people just sit on money and pass it down. Bill gates is giving his kids a tiny percentage of his mass wealth to his kids and donating the rest to charity etc. They'll still get millions each. Why can we not enforce this for all the super wealthy via inheritance taxes. Kids will still get huge sums left to give them a massive foot up in life. The rest of the money can then be reinvested in infrastructure. | |||
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"Wealth redistribution has been going on for about 30 years! It's going from the poor to the wealthy via corrupt cronie capitalism. The best way to solve the problem is to let capital be free in a free market, regulated but free!. What we've gone towards for the last 30 years is capitalism under back slapping politics, where billion pound companies run politics with donations and write their own regulations and free trade agreements turn into protectionism for corporate giants!. Capitalism requires winners and more importantly losers. What this modern symposium gives us is neither capitalism nor democracy. Welcome to the world of plutocracy, where the world is run for the rich by the rich with no losers."
Pretty much my sentiments. | |||
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"Left wing bullshit peddaled by the work shy and idle." Excuse me!!!! I work bloody hard for a living. | |||
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" My initial point was that what you are born with dictates what you get out of life, not this fallacy of hard work. " Utter shite. Ignoring the high end people like Mike Ashley, Richard Branson, Phillip Green etc. What about those of use who grew up in council estates, worked hard all their life and now have decent jobs paying decent wages, own more than one house, holiday abroad at least once a year....that's not through hard work?!? Talking bollocks my man. | |||
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" Bill gates is giving his kids a tiny percentage of his mass wealth to his kids and donating the rest to charity etc. They'll still get millions each. Why can we not enforce this for all the super wealthy via inheritance taxes. " What a crock of shit. Why should anyone of Bill Gates wealth be ENFORCED about what he should do with it? Nobody gets to tell him that. People talk like it just fell into his fucking lap. | |||
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" At 24 years old, you are perfectly within your rights to think that a 90% inheritence tax rate is a good idea. At 53 you are perfectly entitled to be set in your ways. School yard retorts lol The very last thing that could EVER be pinned on me is to be set in my ways - and I would love to see the evidence from which you formulated this observation. School yard retorts indeed, you were the one who brought age into it. Evidence. Every single forum post you make lol. You are very conservative in both your politics and you _iew of the world. Now I'm not saying that you are wrong at all. I along with many others just _iew the world through an entirely different lens. All I am ask is that I am not patronised or disregarded for my entirely valid opinions.." I currently have businesses in two countries aside from this one and have younger and older dependents whom I support financially. My politics and beliefs come about through life experience and a realisation that the world around us is constantly changing and so unless we change with it, we are doomed. The very reason that we have the great wealth divide that we are debating is because the world has changed. When I was young a poorly educated and low skilled person could still get a long term, meaningful job - not anymore. People have to realise that they have to create value in themselves to get something meaningful back. You will see as you go through life that things change - you will have children, older people will become dependent on you and you may/may not encounter financial success. All these things change your point of _iew. There is nothing patronising about having revolutionary thoughts as a young person. But travel, maturity and responsibility will change you. It is just what life does. | |||
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" Sigh. I actually quite respect a lot of your straightforward and honest posts/opinions (as opposed to a lot from "the other side"). They are based in logic, and often insightful. However you often get too caught up in the intricacies rather than looking at the bigger picture. So let me explain. My initial point was that what you are born with dictates what you get out of life, not this fallacy of hard work. Your second point about investment is just wrong. I'm talking about the landed gentry primarily, or maybe if we look to America, the wall-mart heirs. These people just sit on money and pass it down. Bill gates is giving his kids a tiny percentage of his mass wealth to his kids and donating the rest to charity etc. They'll still get millions each. Why can we not enforce this for all the super wealthy via inheritance taxes. Kids will still get huge sums left to give them a massive foot up in life. The rest of the money can then be reinvested in infrastructure. " You are leaving us in November as you think this country is fucked - am I correct? Where are you going where you think that such ideas as these will carry any weight? Remove the motivation to succeed and to carry success forward in to your next generation and you may as well kiss goodbye to your economy. There is no logic whatsoever to your comments particularly as you assume that the very, very wealthy just have billions lying around in current accounts. The cash is working - if it were not they would never have accumulated the wealth. Most politicians in most first world countries see inheritence tax as a punitive, evil but unfortunately necessary tax and in most places (including the UK) the threshold at which you are liable is increasing. You want to raise it to 90% ????? | |||
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" My initial point was that what you are born with dictates what you get out of life, not this fallacy of hard work. Utter shite. Ignoring the high end people like Mike Ashley, Richard Branson, Phillip Green etc. What about those of use who grew up in council estates, worked hard all their life and now have decent jobs paying decent wages, own more than one house, holiday abroad at least once a year....that's not through hard work?!? Talking bollocks my man." You have entirely missed the point my man. You individually have worked your arse off by the sounds of it and gotten yourself to a comfortable position and kudos to you. My point being that due to your start in life you have faced an entirely up hill battle. If you were born into different circumstances life would have been much easier. The work shy exist at both ends of the spectrum rich and poor. Yet it is the poor who are vilified. Hard work can get you out of a shitty situation, but usually only if you are lucky enough to have the brains to go with it. | |||
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"Everyone's getting too hung up on taxing the wealthy and benefits. The best way to redistribute wealth through correctly applied, regulated but free markets. Let capitalism do what it does,Im not it's greatest fan but it's the system we have! Tax credits are a subsidy from the poor to the rich. If your business can't afford to employ a worker in a free market, you don't deserve to be in business! The subsidy of benefits we give to the poor is dwarfed to the subsidy we give to the rich! Put the interest rate back to a level it should be at which is probably somewhere near 7 or 8%, crash the bubble of the housing market, let the banks which have gambled recklessly fail, take it on the chin and regulate better! And most importantly of all stop this incessant corporate meddling in politics and dismantle this lobbying craze before it gets to late. People will make themselves wealthy when you let the system create! I own a cafe and emplyoy 2 girls on minimum wage but have to take less than the minimum wage for myself. Are you saying that I don't deserve to be in business, should close the cafe and put myself and these 2 girls on the dole? Lose one of the girls and pay yourself properly. It's not worth it otherwise 3 people are needed to run it. So I don't deserve to be in business? . If 3 people are needed to run it but you only generate enough income for two, your what's known as unprofitable. Like the coal industry was. Of course we could constantly prop you up with subsidies but just like the coal industry we will soon find out we can't afford to do it. Capitalism doesn't give a shit about employment, it's about capital, it's in the name I don't think you know what unprofitable means. Ok I take less than the girls but I am happy enough with what I earn and don't need anyone to 'prop' me up as you say, or take a penny from anywhere else. Subsidies?? Capitalism?? Sorry, you don't know what you're talking about . Your paying them minimum wage which means there receiving tax credits which means in effect your state subsidised. I've run my own business since I was 20 years old, I know how hard it is and what's involved thanks! Then why do you automatically assume they are recieving tax credits?? Do you know how much their husbands earn? Do you know if they have other jobs? Other incomes? Investments? No. None of us recieve tax credits. unbelievable.
No offence but you pulled my post up where I was clearly talking about tax credits being a business subsidy, then you said you employed two people on minimum wage, so obviously I assumed we were talking about them being on tax credits!
The fact remains that a large section of people employed on minimum wage are subsided by government through tax credits, thus propping up businesses, whether there competitive, profitable or not!"Ok, but I originally pulled your post for the bit where you said if your business can't afford to employ a worker in a free market then you don't deserve to be in business. And you're right about tax credits, they were a mistake in the first place, income tax should have been lowered or removed for some people rather than the government taking with one hand and giving back with the other like some benevolent big brother, but thats Labour for you, they think they know what to do with your money better than you do and always try to control your lives. And NI contributions and business/corporation tax should have been lowered for companies that struggle to pay a good wage | |||
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"The whole thing about getting what you work for is such total shite. I'm gunna do just fine under the current system. I'm going to inherit property and money from my mothers side. I don't work hard, but I do well in life because I'm bright and confident. My dad works his arse off away from home 6 days a week. I got paid more than him on my placement year. We do not have a meritocracy as some claim, it is glaringly obvious. So you get paid more because as you just said you're "bright" that's a meritocracy right there if you've above average intelligence you're a more valuable commodity. everyone smart or dumb can labour but not everyone can be a chemical engineer hence why they get paid more. "Mine is just a small example. A 90% inheritance tax on the super wealthy makes perfect sense to me. What good does it do our economy to have these people who just sit on heaps of money that they will never use..? " most of that money is heavily invested which is beneficial to companies because it gives them start-up capitol, or capital to expand. Sigh. I actually quite respect a lot of your straightforward and honest posts/opinions (as opposed to a lot from "the other side"). They are based in logic, and often insightful. However you often get too caught up in the intricacies rather than looking at the bigger picture. So let me explain. My initial point was that what you are born with dictates what you get out of life, not this fallacy of hard work. Your second point about investment is just wrong. I'm talking about the landed gentry primarily, or maybe if we look to America, the wall-mart heirs. These people just sit on money and pass it down. Bill gates is giving his kids a tiny percentage of his mass wealth to his kids and donating the rest to charity etc. They'll still get millions each. Why can we not enforce this for all the super wealthy via inheritance taxes. Kids will still get huge sums left to give them a massive foot up in life. The rest of the money can then be reinvested in infrastructure. " it is true though. Me and my brother for instance exact same up bring only a few years apart, same schools same teachers pretty much same intelligence, he worked much harder than me, he's a doctor i'm a skilled labour. you can have equality of opportunity but you cant have equality of outcome. you say you want meritocracy but then you ignore the fact that some people are naturally more gifted than others thus meaning they will typically have better outcomes from the same opportunity. you say you're looking at the big picture than choose to base everything on what 0.5% of the population? and bill gates kids are getting Microsoft so they're still getting billions. but you'd be interested to know that bill gates spends a lot of time convincing many rich people including Rothschilds to give away 50% of their wealth before they die? and a lot have. but you'd be much better of stopping looking at the few tens of thousand thousand incredibly wealthy people in the world and looking to the hundreds of millions of middle earners if you want to make real change. | |||
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" I currently have businesses in two countries aside from this one and have younger and older dependents whom I support financially. My politics and beliefs come about through life experience and a realisation that the world around us is constantly changing and so unless we change with it, we are doomed. The very reason that we have the great wealth divide that we are debating is because the world has changed. When I was young a poorly educated and low skilled person could still get a long term, meaningful job - not anymore. People have to realise that they have to create value in themselves to get something meaningful back. You will see as you go through life that things change - you will have children, older people will become dependent on you and you may/may not encounter financial success. All these things change your point of _iew. There is nothing patronising about having revolutionary thoughts as a young person. But travel, maturity and responsibility will change you. It is just what life does." Your just confirming what I have said. Effectively a longer winded version of the famous quote "if you are not a liberal in your 20's you have no heart. If you are not a conservative by your 40's you have no head." You said my opinions were influenced by my age. I simply retorted that the same is true of you. Change and progression comes from youth in the vast majority of cases, and it is coming. Maybe not in my lifetime. | |||
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""You can not multiply wealth by dividing it" - Adrian Rogers. 1.You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. 2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving. 3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. 4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it! 5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that is the beginning of the end of any nation. " Except literally no one is saying 'take millions of pounds off rich people and just hand it to poor people so they don't have to work'. It's about providing a society where working class people have opportunities. Not being ruled out of university by huge tuition fees. Not being crippled by medical bills. Not getting inferior education before you even think of university. Tories love to bang on about how you have to work and make your own opportunities, but their number one priority is that rich people do not ever, ever become even slightly inconvenienced or annoyed. | |||
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" it is true though. Me and my brother for instance exact same up bring only a few years apart, same schools same teachers pretty much same intelligence, he worked much harder than me, he's a doctor i'm a skilled labour. you can have equality of opportunity but you cant have equality of outcome. you say you want meritocracy but then you ignore the fact that some people are naturally more gifted than others thus meaning they will typically have better outcomes from the same opportunity. you say you're looking at the big picture than choose to base everything on what 0.5% of the population? and bill gates kids are getting Microsoft so they're still getting billions. but you'd be interested to know that bill gates spends a lot of time convincing many rich people including Rothschilds to give away 50% of their wealth before they die? and a lot have. but you'd be much better of stopping looking at the few tens of thousand thousand incredibly wealthy people in the world and looking to the hundreds of millions of middle earners if you want to make real change. " I am not disputing for one second that all are not created equally, and when given the same opportunities, some will succeed where others fail. Opportunity is not equal though, that's the point! I was privately educated due to inheritance money. I grew up with those much less fortunate than myself though. Most of them work bloody hard, yet still have nothing. The rest of your post is repackaging of my argument lol. Even with large inheritance taxes on the mega rich, their children will still receive millions, where is the injustice? In the 'big picture' the money generated from taxing that 0.5% will create opportunity and better infrastructure for the entire population! | |||
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"as for "sitting on money " you realise its in trusts, in funds etc that are constantly buying shares trying to raise income its not just shoved in a mattress. sitting on money makes you poor not rich as with each day its worth less and less. rich people invest they do not stockpile." Tell that to the Duke of Westminster.. | |||
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"Let's just get back to capitalism for wealth distribution.... You know that system we've lived under for 300 years. Ask any capitalist. It demands that those that take risk get rewarded but that those that fail must go bust! Guess fucking what, we failed in 2008 we should have gone bankrupt and that was the austerity and the lesson that capitalisation demands! We risked all on that financial roulette wheel and it came up 00. What you bunch of fucking hypocrites want is to have your cake and eat it.... Well I've got news for you, you can't, the system won't let you, were fucking bankrupt. Throwing some austerity at some piss poor person who had fuck all to lose in that banking crash and certainly didn't benefit from the great financial experiment anyhow is just fucking childish and futile. Were well past paying off that debt with some lousy fucking austerity and that's if austerity actually can do it, bearing in mind it's done fuck all for the Greek economy and not much for ours. The bank of England is insolvent it's got 1.2 trillion of utterly useless debt on its books that we've bought because the rich and the middle class couldn't fucking face doing a days work you bunch of idle hypocritical twats "Oh dear | |||
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" that we've bought because the rich and the middle class couldn't fucking face doing a days work you bunch of idle hypocritical twats " I pay people do to it for me | |||
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" that we've bought because the rich and the middle class couldn't fucking face doing a days work you bunch of idle hypocritical twats
I pay people do to it for me"but thanks, you summed me up well | |||
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" Oh dear " What useful stimulus to the discussion.. | |||
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" that we've bought because the rich and the middle class couldn't fucking face doing a days work you bunch of idle hypocritical twats
I pay people do to it for me
but thanks, you summed me up well". Haha it wasn't aimed at anyone particular, just a summation of exactly what went wrong and how we managed to fuck it all up and blame somebody else.  | |||
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" Oh dear What useful stimulus to the discussion.." It was an appropriate reply to the post it was replying to... | |||
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" Oh dear What useful stimulus to the discussion.. It was an appropriate reply to the post it was replying to..." You would say that. Difference in perspective. I believe if you have nothing constructive to add, may as well save your breath. | |||
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" Oh dear What useful stimulus to the discussion.." Could not care less sausage. | |||
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" Oh dear What useful stimulus to the discussion.. It was an appropriate reply to the post it was replying to... You would say that. Difference in perspective. I believe if you have nothing constructive to add, may as well save your breath. " Good job this is in written form then eh. Oh wait, maybe that wasn't constructive either 
"I would say that"? Care to elaborate? | |||
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"Of all the people I went to school with (comprehensive school, dodgy area) anyone who worked hard at school has done alright for themselves regardless of where they started out. The real poverty is the poverty of ambition from parents who don't encourage their children to learn and work hard as a way to improve their life. " Your anecdotal experience is just not the case statistically though. Money creates more money. That's an age old adage. Also no one has ever said that hard work does not improve the hand which anyone has been dealt. The crux of the argument, is that the justification that we shouldn't help those less fortunate than ourselves because they are lazy is just plain wrong. | |||
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"Of all the people I went to school with (comprehensive school, dodgy area) anyone who worked hard at school has done alright for themselves regardless of where they started out. The real poverty is the poverty of ambition from parents who don't encourage their children to learn and work hard as a way to improve their life. Your anecdotal experience is just not the case statistically though. Money creates more money. That's an age old adage. Also no one has ever said that hard work does not improve the hand which anyone has been dealt. The crux of the argument, is that the justification that we shouldn't help those less fortunate than ourselves because they are lazy is just plain wrong. " If everyone can get to a "decent" standard of living it shouldn't matter that money makes more money. I don't particularly give a shit that Roman Ambramovich has more money than me because I have a comfortable standard of living. If I was living below the poverty line I probably would. Redistribution of wealth is an admirable aspiration up to a point, and that point should be the opportunity for everyone to have a basic standard of living if one works hard for it. Beyond that, what's the point? | |||
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"Of all the people I went to school with (comprehensive school, dodgy area) anyone who worked hard at school has done alright for themselves regardless of where they started out. The real poverty is the poverty of ambition from parents who don't encourage their children to learn and work hard as a way to improve their life. " . So people who worked hard, succeeded got rewarded. That's one of the main stimulus of capitalism What happens to those people who worked hard but didn't succeed for one reason or another?.. It's important because it's the next main stimulus of capitalism. They go bankrupt and have to start again, it frees up the capital and there productivity and allows the debt circle to begin again. We as a nation risked all on the financial sector.... It didn't work out because they were corrupt! Not incompetent, not hard working, not stupid, not productive.... Just corrupt... they ran off with our money just like Bernard Madoff did with his investors money, and his investors took the losses or went bust. That's capitalism, love it or loath it. Were delaying the inevitable a bit longer while those corrupt people hoover up the last bits of capital before fleeing to the virgin islands. You me and everyone else lost there little nest egg and pension and investments when we handed it over to an industry that regulated itself and stole it. Worse still instead of imprisoning the conmen and thieves we've bailed them out given them their job back and let them lose to run amok and they can't believe there luck and how fecking stupid the population really is | |||
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" If I was living below the poverty line I probably would. " Exactly! " Redistribution of wealth is an admirable aspiration up to a point, and that point should be the opportunity for everyone to have a basic standard of living if one works hard for it. Beyond that, what's the point? " Well that is the point. The mega wealthy hoard assets and resources which they simply do not need. This means that most of world cannot have that 'basic' never mind comfortable standard of living of which you speak.. | |||
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"Of all the people I went to school with (comprehensive school, dodgy area) anyone who worked hard at school has done alright for themselves regardless of where they started out. The real poverty is the poverty of ambition from parents who don't encourage their children to learn and work hard as a way to improve their life. . So people who worked hard, succeeded got rewarded. That's one of the main stimulus of capitalism What happens to those people who worked hard but didn't succeed for one reason or another?.. It's important because it's the next main stimulus of capitalism. They go bankrupt and have to start again, it frees up the capital and there productivity and allows the debt circle to begin again. We as a nation risked all on the financial sector.... It didn't work out because they were corrupt! Not incompetent, not hard working, not stupid, not productive.... Just corrupt... they ran off with our money just like Bernard Madoff did with his investors money, and his investors took the losses or went bust. That's capitalism, love it or loath it. Were delaying the inevitable a bit longer while those corrupt people hoover up the last bits of capital before fleeing to the virgin islands. You me and everyone else lost there little nest egg and pension and investments when we handed it over to an industry that regulated itself and stole it. Worse still instead of imprisoning the conmen and thieves we've bailed them out given them their job back and let them lose to run amok and they can't believe there luck and how fecking stupid the population really is" I didn't lose any nest egg or investment, I'm entirely debt fuelled. Making capitalism work for me | |||
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" If I was living below the poverty line I probably would. Exactly! Redistribution of wealth is an admirable aspiration up to a point, and that point should be the opportunity for everyone to have a basic standard of living if one works hard for it. Beyond that, what's the point? Well that is the point. The mega wealthy hoard assets and resources which they simply do not need. This means that most of world cannot have that 'basic' never mind comfortable standard of living of which you speak.. " Could you start by paying your butler more? | |||
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" If I was living below the poverty line I probably would. Exactly! Redistribution of wealth is an admirable aspiration up to a point, and that point should be the opportunity for everyone to have a basic standard of living if one works hard for it. Beyond that, what's the point? Well that is the point. The mega wealthy hoard assets and resources which they simply do not need. This means that most of world cannot have that 'basic' never mind comfortable standard of living of which you speak.. Could you start by paying your butler more? "Some people have done quite well in the last five years. I know I have so its not all bad news. We are all going to be ok. | |||
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" Could you start by paying your butler more? "Sorry you've lost me | |||
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"Of all the people I went to school with (comprehensive school, dodgy area) anyone who worked hard at school has done alright for themselves regardless of where they started out. The real poverty is the poverty of ambition from parents who don't encourage their children to learn and work hard as a way to improve their life. . So people who worked hard, succeeded got rewarded. That's one of the main stimulus of capitalism What happens to those people who worked hard but didn't succeed for one reason or another?.. It's important because it's the next main stimulus of capitalism. They go bankrupt and have to start again, it frees up the capital and there productivity and allows the debt circle to begin again. We as a nation risked all on the financial sector.... It didn't work out because they were corrupt! Not incompetent, not hard working, not stupid, not productive.... Just corrupt... they ran off with our money just like Bernard Madoff did with his investors money, and his investors took the losses or went bust. That's capitalism, love it or loath it. Were delaying the inevitable a bit longer while those corrupt people hoover up the last bits of capital before fleeing to the virgin islands. You me and everyone else lost there little nest egg and pension and investments when we handed it over to an industry that regulated itself and stole it. Worse still instead of imprisoning the conmen and thieves we've bailed them out given them their job back and let them lose to run amok and they can't believe there luck and how fecking stupid the population really is I didn't lose any nest egg or investment, I'm entirely debt fuelled. Making capitalism work for me ". That's my point, we should have lost it, we gained from the banking industry we are the investors we should have gone bankrupt or took the losses if we could have afforded it. But we didn't we took all the shit worthless debt from the banks which had swindled us and made that private debt public debt! We subsided the wealthiest section of society who had the biggest investment to lose in the banks and now make iddy biddy austerity bollocks for the least well off, who had nothing in the banks to lose in the first place!.... As if that's going to solve the biggest crises capitalism has ever faced. Yeah this problems huge and requires massive stimulus of billions and billions and billions of dollars and pounds and yen from nearly every western country.... But fear not....I have a cunning plan of a bedroom tax on the poor to reimburse the system
Anybody fooled by this deserves everything that's coming to them. | |||
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"Of all the people I went to school with (comprehensive school, dodgy area) anyone who worked hard at school has done alright for themselves regardless of where they started out. The real poverty is the poverty of ambition from parents who don't encourage their children to learn and work hard as a way to improve their life. . So people who worked hard, succeeded got rewarded. That's one of the main stimulus of capitalism What happens to those people who worked hard but didn't succeed for one reason or another?.. It's important because it's the next main stimulus of capitalism. They go bankrupt and have to start again, it frees up the capital and there productivity and allows the debt circle to begin again. We as a nation risked all on the financial sector.... It didn't work out because they were corrupt! Not incompetent, not hard working, not stupid, not productive.... Just corrupt... they ran off with our money just like Bernard Madoff did with his investors money, and his investors took the losses or went bust. That's capitalism, love it or loath it. Were delaying the inevitable a bit longer while those corrupt people hoover up the last bits of capital before fleeing to the virgin islands. You me and everyone else lost there little nest egg and pension and investments when we handed it over to an industry that regulated itself and stole it. Worse still instead of imprisoning the conmen and thieves we've bailed them out given them their job back and let them lose to run amok and they can't believe there luck and how fecking stupid the population really is I didn't lose any nest egg or investment, I'm entirely debt fuelled. Making capitalism work for me .
That's my point, we should have lost it, we gained from the banking industry we are the investors we should have gone bankrupt or took the losses if we could have afforded it.
But we didn't we took all the shit worthless debt from the banks which had swindled us and made that private debt public debt!
We subsided the wealthiest section of society who had the biggest investment to lose in the banks and now make iddy biddy austerity bollocks for the least well off, who had nothing in the banks to lose in the first place!.... As if that's going to solve the biggest crises capitalism has ever faced.
Yeah this problems huge and requires massive stimulus of billions and billions and billions of dollars and pounds and yen from nearly every western country.... But fear not....I have a cunning plan of a bedroom tax on the poor to reimburse the system
Anybody fooled by this deserves everything that's coming to them."Is that a chip on your shoulder by any chance? And whats coming to them? | |||
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" Anybody fooled by this deserves everything that's coming to them." The middle earners are the ones who have been duped. They believe the propaganda that those with nothing want to steal their money. When actually it is those with everything who want and are doing so. Individualism and apathy rule the day, as highlighted by many in this thread. Those two traits are fantastic for maintaining the status quo, but ruinous for the future of our planet. | |||
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" I am not advocating taking from the rich and giving to the lazy"
That kinda sums up the whole duplicity of this debate. The rich and the lazy are often one and the same. | |||
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" Anybody fooled by this deserves everything that's coming to them. The middle earners are the ones who have been duped. They believe the propaganda that those with nothing want to steal their money. When actually it is those with everything who want and are doing so. Individualism and apathy rule the day, as highlighted by many in this thread. Those two traits are fantastic for maintaining the status quo, but ruinous for the future of our planet. " #deluded Or as they say, youth is wasted on the young | |||
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" #deluded Or as they say, youth is wasted on the young" Didn't realise we were on twitter lol. Please elaborate and share your wisdom. | |||
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"Let's just get back to capitalism for wealth distribution.... You know that system we've lived under for 300 years. Ask any capitalist. It demands that those that take risk get rewarded but that those that fail must go bust! Guess fucking what, we failed in 2008 we should have gone bankrupt and that was the austerity and the lesson that capitalisation demands! We risked all on that financial roulette wheel and it came up 00. What you bunch of fucking hypocrites want is to have your cake and eat it.... Well I've got news for you, you can't, the system won't let you, were fucking bankrupt. Throwing some austerity at some piss poor person who had fuck all to lose in that banking crash and certainly didn't benefit from the great financial experiment anyhow is just fucking childish and futile. Were well past paying off that debt with some lousy fucking austerity and that's if austerity actually can do it, bearing in mind it's done fuck all for the Greek economy and not much for ours. The bank of England is insolvent it's got 1.2 trillion of utterly useless debt on its books that we've bought because the rich and the middle class couldn't fucking face doing a days work you bunch of idle hypocritical twats "My grandfather told me that the instant you started to swear and become abusive was the instant you lost the argument. Just saying....... | |||
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"Of all the people I went to school with (comprehensive school, dodgy area) anyone who worked hard at school has done alright for themselves regardless of where they started out. The real poverty is the poverty of ambition from parents who don't encourage their children to learn and work hard as a way to improve their life. . So people who worked hard, succeeded got rewarded. That's one of the main stimulus of capitalism What happens to those people who worked hard but didn't succeed for one reason or another?.. It's important because it's the next main stimulus of capitalism. They go bankrupt and have to start again, it frees up the capital and there productivity and allows the debt circle to begin again. We as a nation risked all on the financial sector.... It didn't work out because they were corrupt! Not incompetent, not hard working, not stupid, not productive.... Just corrupt... they ran off with our money just like Bernard Madoff did with his investors money, and his investors took the losses or went bust. That's capitalism, love it or loath it. Were delaying the inevitable a bit longer while those corrupt people hoover up the last bits of capital before fleeing to the virgin islands. You me and everyone else lost there little nest egg and pension and investments when we handed it over to an industry that regulated itself and stole it. Worse still instead of imprisoning the conmen and thieves we've bailed them out given them their job back and let them lose to run amok and they can't believe there luck and how fecking stupid the population really is I didn't lose any nest egg or investment, I'm entirely debt fuelled. Making capitalism work for me .
That's my point, we should have lost it, we gained from the banking industry we are the investors we should have gone bankrupt or took the losses if we could have afforded it.
But we didn't we took all the shit worthless debt from the banks which had swindled us and made that private debt public debt!
We subsided the wealthiest section of society who had the biggest investment to lose in the banks and now make iddy biddy austerity bollocks for the least well off, who had nothing in the banks to lose in the first place!.... As if that's going to solve the biggest crises capitalism has ever faced.
Yeah this problems huge and requires massive stimulus of billions and billions and billions of dollars and pounds and yen from nearly every western country.... But fear not....I have a cunning plan of a bedroom tax on the poor to reimburse the system
Anybody fooled by this deserves everything that's coming to them.
Is that a chip on your shoulder by any chance?
And whats coming to them?". Let's assume the worse and it's a chip. So rbs has a balance sheet 3 times bigger than the UK economy. For all purposes by any measure of economics it's insolvent!. That's what happens in capitalism companies go bankrupt, people go bankrupt, what cronie capitalism gives you is loads of debt and nobody goes bankrupt because there best mate is in power or they paid off every politician or they paid to write there own regulation or fine or sentence.... Nobody gets punished for anything anymore it's one big back slapping club... But that debt keeps mounting and sometime soon.... Do you really honestly think we can pay that off with some austerity on the poorest people who've got nothing anyhow! | |||
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"Let's just get back to capitalism for wealth distribution.... You know that system we've lived under for 300 years. Ask any capitalist. It demands that those that take risk get rewarded but that those that fail must go bust! Guess fucking what, we failed in 2008 we should have gone bankrupt and that was the austerity and the lesson that capitalisation demands! We risked all on that financial roulette wheel and it came up 00. What you bunch of fucking hypocrites want is to have your cake and eat it.... Well I've got news for you, you can't, the system won't let you, were fucking bankrupt. Throwing some austerity at some piss poor person who had fuck all to lose in that banking crash and certainly didn't benefit from the great financial experiment anyhow is just fucking childish and futile. Were well past paying off that debt with some lousy fucking austerity and that's if austerity actually can do it, bearing in mind it's done fuck all for the Greek economy and not much for ours. The bank of England is insolvent it's got 1.2 trillion of utterly useless debt on its books that we've bought because the rich and the middle class couldn't fucking face doing a days work you bunch of idle hypocritical twats
My grandfather told me that the instant you started to swear and become abusive was the instant you lost the argument.
Just saying.......". I've got turrets but thanks for taking the piss | |||
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"A lot of supposed educated people writing there instead of their on this thread." A lot of frantic googling also. | |||
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Does that go with your chip? | |||
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"What the fucks turrets?
Does that go with your chip?". I was just being pedantic. Obviously I'm certainly not googling my spelling
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"@sexy-bum You should start a swear jar. You'd save enough to ride out any financial crisis ". It's innate from a life time in the building trade. Sorry if it offends anyone, it's certainly not meant to  | |||
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"A lot of supposed educated people writing there instead of their on this thread." People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones lol. Incorrect use of the past participle there ^ | |||
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"@sexy-bum You should start a swear jar. You'd save enough to ride out any financial crisis .
It's innate from a life time in the building trade.
Sorry if it offends anyone, it's certainly not meant to "No offence taken I just like to take the piss......that's 50p for me
Fucking hell......uggghh £1 already 
See it works | |||
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" Sorry if it offends anyone, it's certainly not meant to "It didn't offend me. I was giggling like mad. It's like seeing someone's blood vessel pop in real time. Sexy bum would you fuck a Tory? Or. .. What if you fucked a Tory but they didn't tell you they were a Tory until afterwards? .... | |||
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" Sorry if it offends anyone, it's certainly not meant to
It didn't offend me.
I was giggling like mad.
It's like seeing someone's blood vessel pop in real time.
Sexy bum would you fuck a Tory?
Or. ..
What if you fucked a Tory but they didn't tell you they were a Tory until afterwards? .... "Ooooooooh shit *shots fired* | |||
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"@sexy-bum You should start a swear jar. You'd save enough to ride out any financial crisis .
It's innate from a life time in the building trade.
Sorry if it offends anyone, it's certainly not meant to
No offence taken I just like to take the piss......that's 50p for me
Fucking hell......uggghh £1 already
See it works ". When I'm really stressed at work I cobble together swear words like where's me fucking wanking spanner!. One thing I still can't do is swear in front of me mum and dad. | |||
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" Sorry if it offends anyone, it's certainly not meant to
It didn't offend me.
I was giggling like mad.
It's like seeing someone's blood vessel pop in real time.
Sexy bum would you fuck a Tory?
Or. ..
What if you fucked a Tory but they didn't tell you they were a Tory until afterwards? .... "Whilst inadvertently investing in a Fracking start up. | |||
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" Sorry if it offends anyone, it's certainly not meant to
It didn't offend me.
I was giggling like mad.
It's like seeing someone's blood vessel pop in real time.
Sexy bum would you fuck a Tory?
Or. ..
What if you fucked a Tory but they didn't tell you they were a Tory until afterwards? ....
Whilst inadvertently investing in a Fracking start up. ". Whow there,that's over stepping the mark! I quite fancy that working class Tory bird from Yorkshire. Shit tea but no knickers | |||
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" Sorry if it offends anyone, it's certainly not meant to
It didn't offend me.
I was giggling like mad.
It's like seeing someone's blood vessel pop in real time.
Sexy bum would you fuck a Tory?
Or. ..
What if you fucked a Tory but they didn't tell you they were a Tory until afterwards? ....
Whilst inadvertently investing in a Fracking start up. "What if they were a really hot Tory? What a fracking dilemma. | |||
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" Sorry if it offends anyone, it's certainly not meant to
It didn't offend me.
I was giggling like mad.
It's like seeing someone's blood vessel pop in real time.
Sexy bum would you fuck a Tory?
Or. ..
What if you fucked a Tory but they didn't tell you they were a Tory until afterwards? ....
Whilst inadvertently investing in a Fracking start up. "You can't see me but I've got my feet up on my sofa with my phone in my hand laughing my head off here!!!  | |||
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"People cannot address the points raised directly, so resort to mockery.. "No ones mocking here there is a backstory for some Sexy bum and others have engaged in lively debate on a number of subjects. Hop of your high horse. | |||
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" Sorry if it offends anyone, it's certainly not meant to
It didn't offend me.
I was giggling like mad.
It's like seeing someone's blood vessel pop in real time.
Sexy bum would you fuck a Tory?
Or. ..
What if you fucked a Tory but they didn't tell you they were a Tory until afterwards? ....
Whilst inadvertently investing in a Fracking start up. .
Whow there,that's over stepping the mark!
I quite fancy that working class Tory bird from Yorkshire.
Shit tea but no knickers"dying here. | |||
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" Sorry if it offends anyone, it's certainly not meant to
It didn't offend me.
I was giggling like mad.
It's like seeing someone's blood vessel pop in real time.
Sexy bum would you fuck a Tory?
Or. ..
What if you fucked a Tory but they didn't tell you they were a Tory until afterwards? ....
Whilst inadvertently investing in a Fracking start up. .
Whow there,that's over stepping the mark!
I quite fancy that working class Tory bird from Yorkshire.
Shit tea but no knickers"No it's the anarchists who make shit tea after sex. Because proper tea is theft. | |||
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" What if they were a really hot Tory? What a fracking dilemma. " For fracks sake don't dig that hole. | |||
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" Sorry if it offends anyone, it's certainly not meant to
It didn't offend me.
I was giggling like mad.
It's like seeing someone's blood vessel pop in real time.
Sexy bum would you fuck a Tory?
Or. ..
What if you fucked a Tory but they didn't tell you they were a Tory until afterwards? ....
Whilst inadvertently investing in a Fracking start up.
What if they were a really hot Tory? What a fracking dilemma. "Three cheers for the Internet ! Where else would you find women pictured in their underwear cracking off witty jokes | |||
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"People cannot address the points raised directly, so resort to mockery.. ". They always shoot the messenger never the message | |||
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"People cannot address the points raised directly, so resort to mockery..
No ones mocking here there is a backstory for some Sexy bum and others have engaged in lively debate on a number of subjects. Hop of your high horse. "I fully appreciate the narrative thanks. When people can't answer something their first response is often mockery. There are actually some on here with opposing _iews who can engage sexy-bum on an intellectual level. | |||
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" Sorry if it offends anyone, it's certainly not meant to
It didn't offend me.
I was giggling like mad.
It's like seeing someone's blood vessel pop in real time.
Sexy bum would you fuck a Tory?
Or. ..
What if you fucked a Tory but they didn't tell you they were a Tory until afterwards? ....
Whilst inadvertently investing in a Fracking start up.
What if they were a really hot Tory? What a fracking dilemma.
Three cheers for the Internet !
Where else would you find women pictured in their underwear cracking off witty jokes ". I've seen women on the internet cracking one off before .... No wait a minute that was me | |||
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" Sorry if it offends anyone, it's certainly not meant to
It didn't offend me.
I was giggling like mad.
It's like seeing someone's blood vessel pop in real time.
Sexy bum would you fuck a Tory?
Or. ..
What if you fucked a Tory but they didn't tell you they were a Tory until afterwards? ....
Whilst inadvertently investing in a Fracking start up.
What if they were a really hot Tory? What a fracking dilemma.
Three cheers for the Internet !
Where else would you find women pictured in their underwear cracking off witty jokes .
I've seen women on the internet cracking one off before .... No wait a minute that was me "The guys post above you claiming your intelligence has just been disproved | |||
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" They always shoot the messenger never the message "il give anna anon her dues, her's was witty and amusing. | |||
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"People cannot address the points raised directly, so resort to mockery..
No ones mocking here there is a backstory for some Sexy bum and others have engaged in lively debate on a number of subjects. Hop of your high horse.
I fully appreciate the narrative thanks. When people can't answer something their first response is often mockery. There are actually some on here with opposing _iews who can engage sexy-bum on an intellectual level. "Your key word is "often" which indicates flexibility for other factors like this case. You were wrong to assume. | |||
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"People cannot address the points raised directly, so resort to mockery..
No ones mocking here there is a backstory for some Sexy bum and others have engaged in lively debate on a number of subjects. Hop of your high horse.
I fully appreciate the narrative thanks. When people can't answer something their first response is often mockery. There are actually some on here with opposing _iews who can engage sexy-bum on an intellectual level. ". I left school at 16 with 3 olevels and a cse. I'm no intellectual, I'm well read but the wife's the clever one, she's also the sexy one. I'm passionate though and passion goes along way in covering your short Cummings | |||
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"People cannot address the points raised directly, so resort to mockery..
No ones mocking here there is a backstory for some Sexy bum and others have engaged in lively debate on a number of subjects. Hop of your high horse.
I fully appreciate the narrative thanks. When people can't answer something their first response is often mockery. There are actually some on here with opposing _iews who can engage sexy-bum on an intellectual level. .
I left school at 16 with 3 olevels and a cse.
I'm no intellectual, I'm well read but the wife's the clever one, she's also the sexy one.
I'm passionate though and passion goes along way in covering your short Cummings"I'm going to get you started on Global warming again one day that's passion. Although I promise not to resort to tyre burning again! | |||
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" I left school at 16 with 3 olevels and a cse. I'm no intellectual, I'm well read but the wife's the clever one, she's also the sexy one. I'm passionate though and passion goes along way in covering your short Cummings "Exactly, one does not have to be an intellectual to engage another in an intellectual manner! | |||
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"People cannot address the points raised directly, so resort to mockery..
No ones mocking here there is a backstory for some Sexy bum and others have engaged in lively debate on a number of subjects. Hop of your high horse.
I fully appreciate the narrative thanks. When people can't answer something their first response is often mockery. There are actually some on here with opposing _iews who can engage sexy-bum on an intellectual level. .
I left school at 16 with 3 olevels and a cse.
I'm no intellectual, I'm well read but the wife's the clever one, she's also the sexy one.
I'm passionate though and passion goes along way in covering your short Cummings
I'm going to get you started on Global warming again one day that's passion. Although I promise not to resort to tyre burning again! ". We have people in the green movement who are watching you .
One more radial and were moving in.
Please it's climate change!
Bloody global warming splitters | |||
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" My initial point was that what you are born with dictates what you get out of life, not this fallacy of hard work. " How you start solely affects where you get to, not how hard you work? Really? What utter pony. This reminds me of a couple of observations. Two men sat behind prison bars. One saw mud, the other saw stars. I saw twins inter_iewed separately on TV a few years ago. One was an alcoholic, one a very successful businessman. Their father was a d*unken derelict who regularly abused and beat both children. Neither twin had what we would call a stable home or decent education They were asked exactly the same question; "how did you get to where you are today, what made you what you are?" They both gave the same answer; "with a father like mine, how did you expect I'd turn out"? Some people have it in their make up to reach up, to aspire, to succeed. Some people don't. You cannot legislate against or around this human nature. The good thing is we all have the power right now to excel and to change our lot. Put it to the test, next time you feel like crap look in the mirror and smile. I guarantee you will feel better in a heartbeat. We all have the skills and tools to succeed already. We simply have to choose to use them. | |||
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" I left school at 16 with 3 olevels and a cse. I'm no intellectual, I'm well read but the wife's the clever one, she's also the sexy one. I'm passionate though and passion goes along way in covering your short Cummings
Exactly, one does not have to be an intellectual to engage another in an intellectual manner!".Your a bright lad I try to argue the facts and the science, I'm a leftie but I try not to make my arguments from a lefts perspective. The long term trend for government spending was pretty much the same under Tory and labour from 93 onwards...a slight incline, nothing spectacular, banksters fucked everyone over and blamed poor people! People have news headlines for thought structures. Rupert Murdoch losses money hand over fist on papers for this very reason, the scary thing is most people know that and still do it. In twenty years I've never worked out if it's apathy or idleness or fear. I'd like to think it's fear as that at least has some credence but I have a sneaky suspicion that people just don't give a fuck... And that really scares me | |||
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" How you start solely affects where you get to, not how hard you work? " Take the word solely out, and remove the part after the comma, and then we're on the same page.
" This reminds me of a couple of observations. Two men sat behind prison bars. One saw mud, the other saw stars. I saw twins inter_iewed separately on TV a few years ago. One was an alcoholic, one a very successful businessman. Their father was a d*unken derelict who regularly abused and beat both children. Neither twin had what we would call a stable home or decent education They were asked exactly the same question; "how did you get to where you are today, what made you what you are?" They both gave the same answer; "with a father like mine, how did you expect I'd turn out"? Some people have it in their make up to reach up, to aspire, to succeed. Some people don't. You cannot legislate against or around this human nature. The good thing is we all have the power right now to excel and to change our lot. Put it to the test, next time you feel like crap look in the mirror and smile. I guarantee you will feel better in a heartbeat. We all have the skills and tools to succeed already. We simply have to choose to use them. " That's a nice story, but unfortunately the exception and not the rule. We do not all have the skills and the tools, that is simply not true. Some are luckier than others, be that through inherited wealth, or intelligence, or even sheer confidence. Of course you cannot legislate, and there will always be inequality. Just not the levels of unnecessary economic disparity we see now, which is rising at a rapid pace. As I have said previously of course hard work is beneficial to everyone. However it helps no-one to demonise the poor as feckless and lazy, as in the majority of cases it is simply not true. | |||
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"@sexy-bum You should start a swear jar. You'd save enough to ride out any financial crisis .
It's innate from a life time in the building trade.
Sorry if it offends anyone, it's certainly not meant to "Don't sweat it. No offence taken here. | |||
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