FabSwingers.com forum: in/out Referendum

By *ophieslut OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Central

My first thread got too big, so heres seconds for you.

Brits overseas for more thAn 15 years cant vote. Despite the vote maybe getting them kicked out from where they live. Losing home, job, lifestyle etc.

Then they have to find somewhere to live here. More housing crisis.

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"My first thread got too big, so heres seconds for you.

Brits overseas for more thAn 15 years cant vote. Despite the vote maybe getting them kicked out from where they live. Losing home, job, lifestyle etc.

Then they have to find somewhere to live here. More housing crisis."

...and maybe they won't be kicked out from where they live? You are scaremongering as you were scaremongering with the queues at airports comment.

Also you said on the other thread why have the tories jumped on the bandwagon and hijacked your thread?

Is it not the Labour party now jumping on the bandwagon saying they support an in/out referendum (bit late to say that now 2 weeks after the election)?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"My first thread got too big, so heres seconds for you.

Brits overseas for more thAn 15 years cant vote. Despite the vote maybe getting them kicked out from where they live. Losing home, job, lifestyle etc.

Then they have to find somewhere to live here. More housing crisis."
.

Like I said, if you've lived in France for over 15 years, you'd be considered favourably for naturalisation so would it really affect you?.

If you included foreign subjects in the referendum you'd be wide open for outside influence, I mean what stops 25 million Romanians coming over for a month and voting no?.

To give Cameron his due on the whole I think he has it about right!

Although I'd think most people would prefer the referendum sooner rather than later

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By *gNeMan
over a year ago

Harrogate

Why should those choosing not to live in the country for over 15 years have any right to vote on something affecting those who do? Besides surely most would have citizenship after 15 years?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"My first thread got too big, so heres seconds for you.

Brits overseas for more thAn 15 years cant vote. Despite the vote maybe getting them kicked out from where they live. Losing home, job, lifestyle etc.

Then they have to find somewhere to live here. More housing crisis..

Like I said, if you've lived in France for over 15 years, you'd be considered favourably for naturalisation so would it really affect you?.

If you included foreign subjects in the referendum you'd be wide open for outside influence, I mean what stops 25 million Romanians coming over for a month and voting no?.

To give Cameron his due on the whole I think he has it about right!

Although I'd think most people would prefer the referendum sooner rather than later"

That's scaremongering of course about foreign voters flooding in to influence the vote. Plus you'd need to consider the logistics of getting 25 million Romanians into the country when the total population of Romania is 20 million

As it is Cameron has broken one of his party's election promises by disenfranchising these UK citizens. I'm sure that'll be one of many broken promises.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"My first thread got too big, so heres seconds for you.

Brits overseas for more thAn 15 years cant vote. Despite the vote maybe getting them kicked out from where they live. Losing home, job, lifestyle etc.

Then they have to find somewhere to live here. More housing crisis.

...and maybe they won't be kicked out from where they live? You are scaremongering as you were scaremongering with the queues at airports comment.

Also you said on the other thread why have the tories jumped on the bandwagon and hijacked your thread?

Is it not the Labour party now jumping on the bandwagon saying they support an in/out referendum (bit late to say that now 2 weeks after the election)? "

The biggest bandwagon jumpers of all are ukip. They of course would give no offer of a referendum at all and have no right to point fingers about that.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"My first thread got too big, so heres seconds for you.

Brits overseas for more thAn 15 years cant vote. Despite the vote maybe getting them kicked out from where they live. Losing home, job, lifestyle etc.

Then they have to find somewhere to live here. More housing crisis.

...and maybe they won't be kicked out from where they live? You are scaremongering as you were scaremongering with the queues at airports comment.

Also you said on the other thread why have the tories jumped on the bandwagon and hijacked your thread?

Is it not the Labour party now jumping on the bandwagon saying they support an in/out referendum (bit late to say that now 2 weeks after the election)? "

As you were scaremongering about overcrowding.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"My first thread got too big, so heres seconds for you.

Brits overseas for more thAn 15 years cant vote. Despite the vote maybe getting them kicked out from where they live. Losing home, job, lifestyle etc.

Then they have to find somewhere to live here. More housing crisis..

Like I said, if you've lived in France for over 15 years, you'd be considered favourably for naturalisation so would it really affect you?.

If you included foreign subjects in the referendum you'd be wide open for outside influence, I mean what stops 25 million Romanians coming over for a month and voting no?.

To give Cameron his due on the whole I think he has it about right!

Although I'd think most people would prefer the referendum sooner rather than later

As it is Cameron has broken one of his party's election promises by disenfranchising these UK citizens. I'm sure that'll be one of many broken promises."
.

If you read back on the first thread, you'll find I was one of very few people that said all uk citizen's including those living abroad, to be fair to Cameron I think 15 years is a fair compromise.

I wasn't scaremongering I was using that as an example on rules stopping outside influence on national referenda, as daft as it sounds you have to guard against influence from outside countries!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

To be fair to Cameron his party manifesto promises to extend voting rights to the very people he disenfranchised with the 15 year decision. Or perhaps he's adopting the farage approach to party manifestos?

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"My first thread got too big, so heres seconds for you.

Brits overseas for more thAn 15 years cant vote. Despite the vote maybe getting them kicked out from where they live. Losing home, job, lifestyle etc.

Then they have to find somewhere to live here. More housing crisis.

...and maybe they won't be kicked out from where they live? You are scaremongering as you were scaremongering with the queues at airports comment.

Also you said on the other thread why have the tories jumped on the bandwagon and hijacked your thread?

Is it not the Labour party now jumping on the bandwagon saying they support an in/out referendum (bit late to say that now 2 weeks after the election)?

As you were scaremongering about overcrowding.

Its not scaremongering when it can be backed up with hard facts. You must have seen the immigration figures that were released into the public domain in the last week. 300,000 plus people every year and we need to build a city the size of Leeds every year to accomodate them.

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"My first thread got too big, so heres seconds for you.

Brits overseas for more thAn 15 years cant vote. Despite the vote maybe getting them kicked out from where they live. Losing home, job, lifestyle etc.

Then they have to find somewhere to live here. More housing crisis.

...and maybe they won't be kicked out from where they live? You are scaremongering as you were scaremongering with the queues at airports comment.

Also you said on the other thread why have the tories jumped on the bandwagon and hijacked your thread?

Is it not the Labour party now jumping on the bandwagon saying they support an in/out referendum (bit late to say that now 2 weeks after the election)?

The biggest bandwagon jumpers of all are ukip. They of course would give no offer of a referendum at all and have no right to point fingers about that.

How can UKIP jump on the referendum bandwagon, when as you just said in your own words, they would not offer a referendum? Your argument just does'nt make any sense.

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By *gNeMan
over a year ago

Harrogate

"My first thread got too big, so heres seconds for you.

Brits overseas for more thAn 15 years cant vote. Despite the vote maybe getting them kicked out from where they live. Losing home, job, lifestyle etc.

Then they have to find somewhere to live here. More housing crisis.

...and maybe they won't be kicked out from where they live? You are scaremongering as you were scaremongering with the queues at airports comment.

Also you said on the other thread why have the tories jumped on the bandwagon and hijacked your thread?

Is it not the Labour party now jumping on the bandwagon saying they support an in/out referendum (bit late to say that now 2 weeks after the election)?

As you were scaremongering about overcrowding.

It's net migration not immigration which is the key statistic. It's way too high at the moment, but it is far from the cause of all our problems.

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By *riskynriskyCouple
over a year ago

Essex.

Only those voting out should be allowed to vote....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"My first thread got too big, so heres seconds for you.

Brits overseas for more thAn 15 years cant vote. Despite the vote maybe getting them kicked out from where they live. Losing home, job, lifestyle etc.

Then they have to find somewhere to live here. More housing crisis.

...and maybe they won't be kicked out from where they live? You are scaremongering as you were scaremongering with the queues at airports comment.

Also you said on the other thread why have the tories jumped on the bandwagon and hijacked your thread?

Is it not the Labour party now jumping on the bandwagon saying they support an in/out referendum (bit late to say that now 2 weeks after the election)?

As you were scaremongering about overcrowding.

Well apart from the fact that you should be delighted about that because it's building new roads and houses and hospitals and schools that keeps companies like JCB in business?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"My first thread got too big, so heres seconds for you.

Brits overseas for more thAn 15 years cant vote. Despite the vote maybe getting them kicked out from where they live. Losing home, job, lifestyle etc.

Then they have to find somewhere to live here. More housing crisis.

...and maybe they won't be kicked out from where they live? You are scaremongering as you were scaremongering with the queues at airports comment.

Also you said on the other thread why have the tories jumped on the bandwagon and hijacked your thread?

Is it not the Labour party now jumping on the bandwagon saying they support an in/out referendum (bit late to say that now 2 weeks after the election)?

The biggest bandwagon jumpers of all are ukip. They of course would give no offer of a referendum at all and have no right to point fingers about that.

How can UKIP jump on the referendum bandwagon, when as you just said in your own words, they would not offer a referendum? Your argument just does'nt make any sense.

Centaur UKIP that's exactly what you were doing. Read your own words before you hurt yourself tumbling off that bandwagon so quickly.

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

[Removed by poster at 26/05/15 08:05:02]

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"My first thread got too big, so heres seconds for you.

Brits overseas for more thAn 15 years cant vote. Despite the vote maybe getting them kicked out from where they live. Losing home, job, lifestyle etc.

Then they have to find somewhere to live here. More housing crisis.

...and maybe they won't be kicked out from where they live? You are scaremongering as you were scaremongering with the queues at airports comment.

Also you said on the other thread why have the tories jumped on the bandwagon and hijacked your thread?

Is it not the Labour party now jumping on the bandwagon saying they support an in/out referendum (bit late to say that now 2 weeks after the election)?

As you were scaremongering about overcrowding.

Well apart from the fact that you should be delighted about that because it's building new roads and houses and hospitals and schools that keeps companies like JCB in business?

And exporting to countries like China who are one of their biggest customers. Maybe that's why they said publicly the other week it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference to them if we stay in the EU or leave.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"My first thread got too big, so heres seconds for you.

Brits overseas for more thAn 15 years cant vote. Despite the vote maybe getting them kicked out from where they live. Losing home, job, lifestyle etc.

Then they have to find somewhere to live here. More housing crisis."

That's nonsense. The No camp during the Scottish Ref tried that round the doors with a lot of the Easter Europeans that moved here years ago, I had three in one nights canvassing tell me the same thing: 'in an Indy Scotland you'll get kicked out as they won't be in Europe anymore' - oh the irony now.

If you can vote in a general or local election here you should be voting for this referendum.

Simples.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"My first thread got too big, so heres seconds for you.

Brits overseas for more thAn 15 years cant vote. Despite the vote maybe getting them kicked out from where they live. Losing home, job, lifestyle etc.

Then they have to find somewhere to live here. More housing crisis.

...and maybe they won't be kicked out from where they live? You are scaremongering as you were scaremongering with the queues at airports comment.

Also you said on the other thread why have the tories jumped on the bandwagon and hijacked your thread?

Is it not the Labour party now jumping on the bandwagon saying they support an in/out referendum (bit late to say that now 2 weeks after the election)?

As you were scaremongering about overcrowding.

Well apart from the fact that you should be delighted about that because it's building new roads and houses and hospitals and schools that keeps companies like JCB in business?

Would that be from their factory using cheap Indian labour? Slight change of track from you there though. 17% of their revenue is from knocking down and building in the UK. They must be delighted at any factor that encourages that growth. Or are they just planning on building monster trucks to display at agricultural shows?

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West

"My first thread got too big, so heres seconds for you.

Brits overseas for more thAn 15 years cant vote. Despite the vote maybe getting them kicked out from where they live. Losing home, job, lifestyle etc.

Then they have to find somewhere to live here. More housing crisis."

Sorry but that is just scaremongering. Why would Brits living overseas get kicked out from where they are living/working? People moved to live in Spain, France and Greece before the a EU existed in its present form and they would continue to do so in the future whatever happens in a referendum.

The great irony however is the demand for a points based immigration system to enter the UK. That would then be reciprocated by other countries and therefore restrict the movement of British workers to these shores only. As it stands, anyone in this country can work anywhere in the EU and many do. A change in the immigration rules will (as always) have a disproportionately negative effect on the low skilled, low paid sector of our workforce as their opportunity to work elsewhere will be curtailed.

I can never understand why the focus is always about "stopping them" coming here and not giving a thought as to what will happen to us with reciprocating measures. I have personally benefitted enormously from living in a number of different EU countries and I don't want to prevent my kids having those same opportunities because of an irrational fear of foreign people coming here.

We should be happy that EU citizens are coming here to work because the EU is like a larger reflection of a country. People in a town, a country or the EU will naturally gravitate to where the work is. The time to worry is when the population starts to fall.

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By *arry247Couple
over a year ago

Wakefield

What the pro EU contingent seem to forget is there are more possibilities for the UK to trade with the rest of the world from outside of the EU than from within.

Trade with the EU will still be welcomed as the EU countries trade as much with the UK as we do with them and they will not want to lose the UK as a market.

My company trades worldwide with only a tiny proportion of exports going to EU members the bulk of exports going to the USA, Canada and Australia.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I doubt if we would get kicked out of Spain as it would make a huge dent in the economy here.

Can you imagine the message it would give to the tourism industry here, it would basically say Brits aren't welcome which would be economic suicide. Anyway there are loads of Scandinavians ,Russians , Africans and South Americans who live here so being a non European isn't an issue.

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West

"What the pro EU contingent seem to forget is there are more possibilities for the UK to trade with the rest of the world from outside of the EU than from within.

Trade with the EU will still be welcomed as the EU countries trade as much with the UK as we do with them and they will not want to lose the UK as a market.

My company trades worldwide with only a tiny proportion of exports going to EU members the bulk of exports going to the USA, Canada and Australia."

The vast majority of UK exports go to the EU. There are always going to be exceptions but we are where we are today.

Simple analogy, two firms firm make stainless steel exhaust pipes for a Renault factory in France. One of those companies is in Spain and the other one is in the UK. The UK elects to leave the EU - what does Renault do when it is committed to support EU business? There are thousands of such comparable and thousands of business that are 100% reliant on export trade to the EU. Importing stuff from the EU is irrelevant as Brits are too selfish to care where things come from and historically Brits buy what they want not based on a principle.

As your example proves, being in the EU does not prevent UK companies from exporting but leaving the EU will have a disproportionately negative effect on the vast majority of businesses that rely on exports to the EU zone.

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By *layfull pairingCouple
over a year ago

Bristol

Are any of us really qualified to vote on such matters ? Do we have the slightest clue about international affairs & monetary systems ? Most will vote in whatever way their morning papers tell them to.... the biggest selling papers, the sun and the mail, will dictate the outcome anyway..... As is usually the case....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If we didn't have such a generous benefit system that was so poorly regulated that attracts so many foreign "workers" here we would not be having this debate!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If we didn't have such a generous benefit system that was so poorly regulated that attracts so many foreign "workers" here we would not be having this debate!"

I used to share you view. Then I stopped relying on mainstream media for information.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"If we didn't have such a generous benefit system that was so poorly regulated that attracts so many foreign "workers" here we would not be having this debate!

I used to share you view. Then I stopped relying on mainstream media for information.

Stick with The National

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By *ophieslut OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Central

"Why should those choosing not to live in the country for over 15 years have any right to vote on something affecting those who do? Besides surely most would have citizenship after 15 years? "

Because the result of the vote would affect those living here as well as those living overseas - have you considered that?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If we didn't have such a generous benefit system that was so poorly regulated that attracts so many foreign "workers" here we would not be having this debate!

I used to share you view. Then I stopped relying on mainstream media for information.

Stick with The National"

Smart...answer.

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By *ophieslut OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Central

"Are any of us really qualified to vote on such matters ? Do we have the slightest clue about international affairs & monetary systems ? Most will vote in whatever way their morning papers tell them to.... the biggest selling papers, the sun and the mail, will dictate the outcome anyway..... As is usually the case.... "

I largely agree with you

My mention of the conservatives stealing my ideas from this thread was tongue in cheek.

I've not had a view on who should vote but the first thread posed a view different ones and some valid reasons some would support them.

I'm not pro Tory or labour on this.

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By *gNeMan
over a year ago

Harrogate

"Why should those choosing not to live in the country for over 15 years have any right to vote on something affecting those who do? Besides surely most would have citizenship after 15 years?

Because the result of the vote would affect those living here as well as those living overseas - have you considered that?"

Really... 15 years is a long time to live in a country which you intrinsically care about.

This country is fucked, and I'm leaving in November! I will have no desire or inclination to meddle in the affairs of those who choose to live here and make a go of it!

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"My first thread got too big, so heres seconds for you.

Brits overseas for more thAn 15 years cant vote. Despite the vote maybe getting them kicked out from where they live. Losing home, job, lifestyle etc.

Then they have to find somewhere to live here. More housing crisis.

...and maybe they won't be kicked out from where they live? You are scaremongering as you were scaremongering with the queues at airports comment.

Also you said on the other thread why have the tories jumped on the bandwagon and hijacked your thread?

Is it not the Labour party now jumping on the bandwagon saying they support an in/out referendum (bit late to say that now 2 weeks after the election)?

The biggest bandwagon jumpers of all are ukip. They of course would give no offer of a referendum at all and have no right to point fingers about that.

How can UKIP jump on the referendum bandwagon, when as you just said in your own words, they would not offer a referendum? Your argument just does'nt make any sense.

Centaur UKIP that's exactly what you were doing. Read your own words before you hurt yourself tumbling off that bandwagon so quickly."

There is no tumbling to be done, as UKIP's position on the EU has always been clear, leave the EU given a UKIP majority, or opt for an in/out referendum as part of joining any kind of coalition deal with any other party. That was UKIP's red line on joining a coalition, it was clear before the general election and it is still clear now.

The only ones who have jumped on the bandwagon are Labour and now say they fully support an in/out referendum, when just a couple weeks ago before the election they were dead set against it, either in the event of a Labour majority or as part of any coalition.

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

This referendum will not be all about international affairs and monetary systems, just as the Scottish referendum was'nt. As the Scottish referendum was partly about national identity, did they see themselves as Scottish or British, this EU referendum is party about our national identity, are we British or European, and are traditional British values being eroded over time by the EU?