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rugby fans.... england's 2015 WC long squad announced...

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By *abio OP   Man
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

okay.... i know this is huge debate in those who like their union...

i and not happy that 2014 european rugby player of the year steffon armitage, and 2015 europen rugby player or the year nick abendanon have been left out of the world cup squad....

their crime..... playing in france!

the RFU won't consider any English player playing outside of England for the team unless in "exceptional circumstances" (basically the johnny wilkinson clause when he went to play in france)

I think pick the best team regardless.. and there is no way they both wouldn't get into the test 22 (or larger 30 man squad!)

i know it is suppose to protect the english club game from those evil french moneybags... but players can get better playing in other countries and that would only help the national side....

so.... rugby nerds.... what do you think.... RFU right or RFU wrong

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Wrong for me. surely it's in the interest of them, the players and the fans to allow the coaching staff to put the very best side available to them onto the park.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"okay.... i know this is huge debate in those who like their union...

i and not happy that 2014 european rugby player of the year steffon armitage, and 2015 europen rugby player or the year nick abendanon have been left out of the world cup squad....

their crime..... playing in france!

the RFU won't consider any English player playing outside of England for the team unless in "exceptional circumstances" (basically the johnny wilkinson clause when he went to play in france)

I think pick the best team regardless.. and there is no way they both wouldn't get into the test 22 (or larger 30 man squad!)

i know it is suppose to protect the english club game from those evil french moneybags... but players can get better playing in other countries and that would only help the national side....

so.... rugby nerds.... what do you think.... RFU right or RFU wrong"

I agree, Australia already reversed their decision to do the same thing and as a result England will struggle to reach the knockout stages.

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By *ere-for-my-convenienceWoman
over a year ago

Tenbury Wells

[Removed by poster at 20/05/15 13:47:21]

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By *ere-for-my-convenienceWoman
over a year ago

Tenbury Wells

If thems the rules, thems the rules

Sportsmen know all about rules

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Disagree. If they really wanted to play for England they would have come back. They knew the rules when they left for money, also Armatige could have come back for this year. European player of the year could have gone to any club he wanted.

On another note not sure why Burgess is in there. Discuss

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By *bi HaiveMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Cheeseville, Somerset

To quote Stuart Lancaster:

"The policy is in place to protect the national team. We've not waivered on it," said Lancaster. "If it changes, more and more people will go to France.

"Having our players playing for English clubs is hugely important to the short, medium and long-term health of the England game. We believe it's our responsibility, as national coaches, to protect that.

"It's been a difficult decision but the right one."

I agree.

A

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"To quote Stuart Lancaster:

"The policy is in place to protect the national team. We've not waivered on it," said Lancaster. "If it changes, more and more people will go to France.

"Having our players playing for English clubs is hugely important to the short, medium and long-term health of the England game. We believe it's our responsibility, as national coaches, to protect that.

"It's been a difficult decision but the right one."

I agree.

A"

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By *heBirminghamWeekendMan
over a year ago

here

Don't agree with it. Gutted for the players, who more than likely will want to play for their country, especially a WC in own country.

The only deciding factor should be, are they on form and hungry to compete for the position.

Back in 2003 Matt Williams attempted to adopt the same type of system with the Scotland team. Didn't last long! (Not that it would have made any difference anyway!)

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

Think its a silly policy and it may come back to bite the old farts on their stuffed arses..

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By *abio OP   Man
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

england has quality coming thru at under 20, under 18 and under 17 that can't get games at higher level...

its not like it would would be a flood of people that would go to france to play.. but those who did you leave oppotunities for others to fill in the gaps....

and besides armitage and abendanon have become better players for playing in france... for them not to able to use that better skillset for england seems silly....

the english premiership has players for scotland, wales, ireland, south africa and australia that have represented those countries whilst playing here.. and it has improved our game....

when the money cycle was the other way french players came to england and played here... and were allowed to play for france...

england is the only nation where the rule is so draconian...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"england has quality coming thru at under 20, under 18 and under 17 that can't get games at higher level...

its not like it would would be a flood of people that would go to france to play.. but those who did you leave oppotunities for others to fill in the gaps....

and besides armitage and abendanon have become better players for playing in france... for them not to able to use that better skillset for england seems silly....

the english premiership has players for scotland, wales, ireland, south africa and australia that have represented those countries whilst playing here.. and it has improved our game....

when the money cycle was the other way french players came to england and played here... and were allowed to play for france...

england is the only nation where the rule is so draconian..."
I may be wrong but I think we have the rule because we have such a larger player base and can afford to do it.

Also the national coach needs to see his players week in week out live and not have to travel to see them.

I believe in England there is a quoter for overseas players in the team.

I disagree that they should have been picked as I believe we have home based talent here.

On a side note well done to the USA at the weekend. I was there and they were awesome

The sleeping giant awakens !!!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The All Blacks introduced these rules after the '07 World Cup where they stated that if players wanted to represent their country then they'd have to stay and play there domestically - a genius move as today you can see the results of these laws = world cup winners in '11, ranked 1st by the IRB for the past 4-5 years, 0 losses in the last 2 years, etc etc....

The All blacks squad has depth for miles in most of their positions, something which the England team are now starting to share. Why? Because they've learnt from the current champions that to be champions you have to breed champions from the ground up. Not only does that mean keeping your current crop of players stateside, but also looking after your youth teams and spending money on grass roots rugby. Rugby ain't a billion dollar business like football and that's the beauty of it!

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By *ere-for-my-convenienceWoman
over a year ago

Tenbury Wells

The rule isn't draconian at all

They must choose to keep it

The players know it's the rule

So they have to accept the consequences

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Why should players like Armitage and Abendanon be allowed to play for England? Ok so they're playing better rugby over there, good for them. But i'd rather see someone who's worked hard and gone through the ranks and stayed loyal to the cause to put the jersey on. Loyalty is something you can't replace. It's such a football mentality to go "oh yeah send him abroad to play for a massive club and then bring him back to play for our national side" there's no loyalty in it and most if not all countries in football are guilty of it. Keep rugby pure is all I'm saying....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Why should players like Armitage and Abendanon be allowed to play for England? Ok so they're playing better rugby over there, good for them. But i'd rather see someone who's worked hard and gone through the ranks and stayed loyal to the cause to put the jersey on. Loyalty is something you can't replace. It's such a football mentality to go "oh yeah send him abroad to play for a massive club and then bring him back to play for our national side" there's no loyalty in it and most if not all countries in football are guilty of it. Keep rugby pure is all I'm saying...."

By that reckoning, only English players should play in the English leagues then?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Why should players like Armitage and Abendanon be allowed to play for England? Ok so they're playing better rugby over there, good for them. But i'd rather see someone who's worked hard and gone through the ranks and stayed loyal to the cause to put the jersey on. Loyalty is something you can't replace. It's such a football mentality to go "oh yeah send him abroad to play for a massive club and then bring him back to play for our national side" there's no loyalty in it and most if not all countries in football are guilty of it. Keep rugby pure is all I'm saying....

By that reckoning, only English players should play in the English leagues then? "

If you look at the club competition in the southern hemisphere it's called the Super 15. You've got 5 teams from nz, 5 from oz and 5 from south Africa that compete against each other. Apart from a few exceptions, most teams are made up of domestic players who come from their own country. This has always been the way down there, and is it a coincidence that these 3 nations almost always top the IRB rankings, or come up in the top 5 at least? I think not.

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By *anchestercubMan
over a year ago

manchester & NI


"To quote Stuart Lancaster:

"The policy is in place to protect the national team. We've not waivered on it," said Lancaster. "If it changes, more and more people will go to France.

"Having our players playing for English clubs is hugely important to the short, medium and long-term health of the England game. We believe it's our responsibility, as national coaches, to protect that.

"It's been a difficult decision but the right one."

I agree.

A "

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By *abio OP   Man
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead


"

If you look at the club competition in the southern hemisphere it's called the Super 15. You've got 5 teams from nz, 5 from oz and 5 from south Africa that compete against each other. Apart from a few exceptions, most teams are made up of domestic players who come from their own country. This has always been the way down there, and is it a coincidence that these 3 nations almost always top the IRB rankings, or come up in the top 5 at least? I think not.

"

in the case of the Australians and the New Zealanders.... a lot of their players are actually contracted centrally to the union... and they control which games they play in...

and in south africa a lot of the better players now play in france and the northern hemisphere.....

England don't do that.... the players are contracted to the clubs! they are almost in a restraint of trade position because they say you can't go to france and play for england so you are limiting their wages if they want to play for the country

if you want to keep the best players here... centrally contract them and you can control every single move, if not.. let them play where they like

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