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£200...its a snip .

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

According to "this morning" yesterday.

Those counselling drug abusers are offering them £200 to have a vasectomy.

Only caught the end , so dont shoot me down in flames for the nitty gritty.

Could be in the usa ? not sure.

Anyways, a guy on the said prog totally agreed with the idea.

what are your thoughts ???

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

are they offering the same for women?

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

I didnt get all the info but im gonna check

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

There was a thread about this yesterday

http://www.fabswingers.com/forum/lounge/38676

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By *thwalescplCouple
over a year ago

brecon

I saw this on the mews yesterday.

Apparently its an American "charity", who have now brought this idea over here, and I think they do offer it to women too.

I am in two minds on this.

Part of me thinks that if it prevents kids being brought up by parents who arent in a fit state through drugs to take care of them, then it might be a good thing.

However, it smacks a little of "social engineering", and the last person to try that was Hitler!!

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

AN American drugs charity sparked anger yesterday after it emerged that British addicts are being offered cash in exchange for getting sterilised.

The move by controversial US group Project Prevention has been branded “exploitative, ethically dubious and morally questionable”.

The scheme came to light after a 38-year-old heroin addict became the first person in Britain to be paid £200 by the charity to have a vasectomy.

Known only as “John”, the man said afterwards he would spend the money on overdue rent and “shopping”.

The operation was carried out on the NHS in September after John called the charity’s helpline, which gave him 30 days to think about his decision.

Martin Barnes, chief executive of British charity DrugScope, described the practice as exploitative, dubious and questionable.

He said: “Ensuring access to good-quality treatment and welfare and safeguarding systems is the most effective, rational and humane approach to this complex issue, not sterilisation for cash.”

A spokesman for drug and alcohol charity Addaction said: “We are also concerned that the cash that is being offered will end up in the hands of dealers, helping to perpetuate a problem that is damaging families and communities.”

Project Prevention founder Barbara Harris said: “Social workers and their like have done their best for years and it’s not good enough. “I’m offering something different, and paying addicts for being responsible.”

John, who admitted stealing in the past to fund his habit, said: “It came as a bit of a shock to me knowing I was the first in Britain.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Morally questionable for me

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 20/10/10 12:31:15]

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

You have to ask "who next"

Hitler did the same thing and it seems were going backwards because its an easier option.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

i think its a good idea

its not like they are forcing them, they offer them a small amount of money and the person decides for themselves

if your a drug addict the chances are your not going to be fit to look after a child anyway

lets look at this as adults, your hooked on heroine you have no food and no drugs and £20 is your pocket, what you going to buy? so your child goes without food!!

Surely its better that these people cant have kids than having them and the children grow up neglected and shipped around home to home?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"i think its a good idea

its not like they are forcing them, they offer them a small amount of money and the person decides for themselves

if your a drug addict the chances are your not going to be fit to look after a child anyway

lets look at this as adults, your hooked on heroine you have no food and no drugs and £20 is your pocket, what you going to buy? so your child goes without food!!

Surely its better that these people cant have kids than having them and the children grow up neglected and shipped around home to home?"

AGREED!!!

They are adults who are given the CHOICE..no one is forcing them!

Good luck to the project and the people involved

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By *oe_Steve_NWestCouple
over a year ago

Bolton

I think it's a good idea - if they had any sense (they don't - they take drugs) they'd get the op done themselves as it would be free on the NHS - if you're a smack head how the heck are you going to look after children? The couple who started this charity adopted 4 children from a drug addict - if people don't agree with them being sterilised can you adopt the resulting children? It's ok to say you don't agree with something but just to say it's not right is a cop out! Z

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

And what about the hundreds of babies that are born every year heroine addicts, they have to go thro full 'cold turkey' like an adult to get them off drugs.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If you ask a drug addict needing a fix if you can cut their finger off for £50 they would most likely say yes, but would it be ok as they had a choice?

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By *oe_Steve_NWestCouple
over a year ago

Bolton


"If you ask a drug addict needing a fix if you can cut their finger off for £50 they would most likely say yes, but would it be ok as they had a choice?"

Thats not a very sensible suggestion and not what the debate is about at all - we're talking about drug addicts having babies - an innocent plunged into the squalor of addiction - if they want to abuse themselves that's their choice but the baby born with a crack addiction is surely something that none of us wants? Z

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"If you ask a drug addict needing a fix if you can cut their finger off for £50 they would most likely say yes, but would it be ok as they had a choice?"

hardly the same

cutting someones finger off would be to no advantage at all

stopping them having kids would save hundreds of unwanted babies being born addicts, being unwated, being unloved, going without for cause their parents wanted their next fix, ending up in care etc

how can you compair the two?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

to me the fact that they are willing to take £200 to stop them having kids proves they are not fit to have kids, because they are not thinkinhg in their right minds so how can they possabily bring up a child?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

So none of these addicts have ever turned themselves around? Pretty sure an implant would be a more viable option, what’s next, people suffering depression? Weekly blood alcohol tests before you’re allowed to have children, every town centre is thriving with hoodies hanging around shop corners, bet most of them have parents that aren’t junkies though.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"So none of these addicts have ever turned themselves around? Pretty sure an implant would be a more viable option, what’s next, people suffering depression? Weekly blood alcohol tests before you’re allowed to have children, every town centre is thriving with hoodies hanging around shop corners, bet most of them have parents that aren’t junkies though."

Implants are an option!!!

The addicts involved are given a choice....most of the women have opted for the implants....

People have made such a big deal about it because the british guy who got it done opted for the "snip" and being an adult it was his CHOICE!!!!

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By *oe_Steve_NWestCouple
over a year ago

Bolton

I think it's a reflection on our society at the moment - parents don't have to be junkies to be deplorable parents I agree, and we need to tackle the root cause of these problems - to be more preactive than reactive. I do see smack heads as scum of the earth - some may be really nice people and some do get themselves clean - the minority and not the majority though - they're nothing but a drain on society and I am pretty sure that if an addict asks for help they do get it - free of course. Z

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Using class A, B or C drugs is a criminal offence. Neglecting a child is a criminal offence. It seems to me that this money is just being paid to criminals to prevent a further crime. This, I do not agree with.

Sterilising hard-drug addicts is something I agree with, but there should be no financial reward for doing the right thing on behalf of unborn babies - it's them that need our protection.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's an easy choice, if your an addict your not fit to look after/have kids.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

OK...lets put this another way...

IF a loved one or close friend was a serious drug addict, gave birth, then you were left to look after the little drug withdrawing mite, watching it suffer and yes, eventually pull through it all....and you are left to love and care for that child, you would do it right??? We all would if we were in that situation!!

NOW...imagine that same loved one/friend got pregnant again?????

OR better still....you offered them £200 to get the implant or get the "snip" to prevent it happening again.....would you do it???? Even if you knew they would go straight out and buy more drugs after the procedure was done?...YES you would!!! WHY?? Because you saw what happened the fist time, it broke your heart to see that little one suffer and you dont want it to happen again!!!

This is not about protecting unborn babies....they are not being terminated....

Most of you are forgetting that most of the women involved are only getting the implant....

How many women on here have some kind of implant, coil etc....??

Granted we were not paid to get them...but hell yes, if offered we would have accepted!!!!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

A lot of the kids born to addicts die - period. If they live there lives are bad - period

So what's the problem - morality is covered on this one - no social engineering issues whatsoever!!

Indian govt provide a free radio to people who are sterilised etc. China allows only one child per family...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Another good thread.

It seems like drug addicts are being treated unfairly on this thread.We are all addicts in one way or the other.

Is human life now come to the price of 200 quid which will probably be spent on the next fix and then what for this person , no future because one avenue of reform which in my view is the most important has been taken away,children.

I think this organisation is taking advantage of these people who are probably not fit to make the right decision and just like anything else must be an agenda set up by the powers that govern society.

lets not give up on life , everybody needs a chance to reform.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"OK...lets put this another way...

IF a loved one or close friend was a serious drug addict, gave birth, then you were left to look after the little drug withdrawing mite, watching it suffer and yes, eventually pull through it all....and you are left to love and care for that child, you would do it right??? We all would if we were in that situation!!

"

That last bit's a very sweeping statement - NO! I hate kids, and if one was dumped on me in these circumstances I'd stick it in a jiffy bag and post it off to the nearest work-house, or wherever unwanted kids get sent these days to be looked after by someone who wants and can handle the responsibility. And the close friend/loved one would no longer be a close friend/loved one.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Social engineering is social engineering whether crude or sophisticated. Inducing the vulnerable in our society to make decisions of this magnitude tells us more about us than them.

I fully understand the argument being made, and respect individual choice but have difficulty with the idea of a financial inducement. Surely this becomes a motivating factor in that ‘choice’ being made.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"OK...lets put this another way...

IF a loved one or close friend was a serious drug addict, gave birth, then you were left to look after the little drug withdrawing mite, watching it suffer and yes, eventually pull through it all....and you are left to love and care for that child, you would do it right??? We all would if we were in that situation!!

That last bit's a very sweeping statement - NO! I hate kids, and if one was dumped on me in these circumstances I'd stick it in a jiffy bag and post it off to the nearest work-house, or wherever unwanted kids get sent these days to be looked after by someone who wants and can handle the responsibility. And the close friend/loved one would no longer be a close friend/loved one."

Surely then this is an argument in favour of this project?

To prevent unwanted babies being put in jiffy bags and sent off to the nearest workhouse????

And yes, you were right...it was a sweeping statement....it was very wrong of me to assume we would all help out friends/loved ones if they needed it...and not just ditch them if they dared to turn to us for help

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By *oe_Steve_NWestCouple
over a year ago

Bolton


"Another good thread.

It seems like drug addicts are being treated unfairly on this thread.We are all addicts in one way or the other.

Is human life now come to the price of 200 quid which will probably be spent on the next fix and then what for this person , no future because one avenue of reform which in my view is the most important has been taken away,children.

I think this organisation is taking advantage of these people who are probably not fit to make the right decision and just like anything else must be an agenda set up by the powers that govern society.

lets not give up on life , everybody needs a chance to reform.

"

This is probably one of the most confused and warped posts I've ever read - we're not all DRUG addicts - no one is putting the cost of £200 on a life - - the one avenue to reform is having a baby? For God's sake - that really is twisted - if these people can't be trusted with this decision but you think they can raise a child? How do you work that one out? Drug addicts being treated unfairly on this thread? Possibly, but I don't think so. Z

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Another good thread.

It seems like drug addicts are being treated unfairly on this thread.We are all addicts in one way or the other.

Is human life now come to the price of 200 quid which will probably be spent on the next fix and then what for this person , no future because one avenue of reform which in my view is the most important has been taken away,children.

I think this organisation is taking advantage of these people who are probably not fit to make the right decision and just like anything else must be an agenda set up by the powers that govern society.

lets not give up on life , everybody needs a chance to reform.

This is probably one of the most confused and warped posts I've ever read - we're not all DRUG addicts - no one is putting the cost of £200 on a life - - the one avenue to reform is having a baby? For God's sake - that really is twisted - if these people can't be trusted with this decision but you think they can raise a child? How do you work that one out? Drug addicts being treated unfairly on this thread? Possibly, but I don't think so. Z"

Confusion ?

My undestanding is 200 quid and you will not be able to have kids so its not one human life it can be many , is this wat the OP was referring to ?

I did not call us all drug addicts,the confusion is on your part there.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

From the same source came the governments idea to stop all benefits to drug users.

And to eventually stop giving medical substitutes.

Im all for in expensive treatments to help people but like the lot who queue up in the local chemist, they dont want help...have had it several times over and think what the hell...

What do you do with those who dont want help. ?

If this offer was on the table, they all knew about it and were in a fit state of mind when deciding to say yes...then im in agreement .

But sadly..many are not

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

I dont find it confusing in the least.

It was something bieng discussed on daytime tv and also in the daily express.

Those offering this were usa based and they feel they are doing a good service.

We have had a "drug zsar" who was paid to much for doing very little.

If not nothing. Meanwhile the problem rises and rises.

What else is on the table ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

......" Those counselling drug abusers are offering them £200 to have a vasectomy.

Only caught the end "......

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"NO! I hate kids, and if one was dumped on me in these circumstances I'd stick it in a jiffy bag and post it off to the nearest work-house"

If there was a case for sterilisation it's right here in this post. Stick it in a jiffy bag. What a thing to say.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"NO! I hate kids, and if one was dumped on me in these circumstances I'd stick it in a jiffy bag and post it off to the nearest work-house

If there was a case for sterilisation it's right here in this post. Stick it in a jiffy bag. What a thing to say. "

Oh for Lucifer's sake, the bit about the jiffy bags was a joke. I don't have kids and I have no idea how you post them these days. Do people still use brown paper and string?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"NO! I hate kids, and if one was dumped on me in these circumstances I'd stick it in a jiffy bag and post it off to the nearest work-house

If there was a case for sterilisation it's right here in this post. Stick it in a jiffy bag. What a thing to say.

Oh for Lucifer's sake, the bit about the jiffy bags was a joke. I don't have kids and I have no idea how you post them these days. Do people still use brown paper and string? "

Nope....shoe boxes seem the best thing, saves them getting bashed about too much at the sorting office

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By *empnbunkCouple
over a year ago

south coast

are these people payin 200 quid really that bad the amount of children sufferin must come first n be stopped in fact it should b law that these junkies are sterillised if they refuse help maybe knowing that they will never have children if they start on drugs might just stop someone takin them to begin with .... If it stopped 1 then its a good thing or am i just being naive

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I agree with them getting sterilised, but there could be better ways in dealing with it.

For instance, how about every month the women when they go for needle exchange they get a free pregnancy test, given a choice of contraceptions and advise. Then if it turns out they are pregnant, they get councilling, advice and given 2 choices. One to abort the child (no doubt this statement will cause an uproar) the other to go through with the pregnancy and get sterilised at the end.

Having worked in nurseries, i have seen kids that are born of both drug and alcohol dependant parents, and its not pretty. These children have problems through the rest of their formative years and beyond.

Why should we as tax payers pay good money on NHS treatments to help someone that is doing something that is self inflicted. We are not forcing them to kill themselves, they are doing that with the shit they are putting in their own bodies, so why should we have to clean up their mess, when they dont want to?

My 2p worth - dont shoot me!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Why should we as tax payers pay good money on NHS treatments to help someone that is doing something that is self inflicted. We are not forcing them to kill themselves, they are doing that with the shit they are putting in their own bodies, so why should we have to clean up their mess, when they dont want to?

My 2p worth - dont shoot me!"

I suppose the same argument with regards the NHS could be made in relation to smokers and the obese, probably much more of them so a higher drain on the NHS.

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By *-and-KCouple
over a year ago

Back of Beyond

£200? druggies alkies the inveterate welfare claimants-those who left skool 10 years ago with no job and no intention of working until retirement age.

They would all be compulsorily neutered as far as I am concerned. I say neutered because thats what you do to animals, you don't reward them.

Eventually we could rid the country of all the dross that is so socially unacceptable

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