FabSwingers.com forum: who should vote in In/Out Referendum?

By *ophieslut OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Central

If we get this referendum, who should be eligible to vote?

British nationals resident here plus abroad? Any resident here, including EU citizens etc? The results could have massive consequences for all of them, uprooting their homes, financial losses etc.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Anyone on the electoral register?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Anyone who is normally eligible to vote in a general election. It will affect people who live and work here, they are the ones who should have their say on it.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Any one who is eligible and on the electoral register as in all elections

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Uk nationals, where they live is irrelevant.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *lik and PaulCouple
over a year ago

cahoots

I'm still wondering why the English didn't get a vote regarding independence from Scotland.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

NO to British who live abroad as they live and abroad and not in the UK

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *inaTitzTV/TS
over a year ago

Titz Towers, North Notts

Everyone over 16

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *eithoWoman
over a year ago

Chatham

I think it should be extended to those Britons who live in the wider EU as it will affect them too.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Where you live is irrelevant.

It's a decision that effects all UK nationals, the uk belongs to UK citizens everywhere!

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Appenrently a lot of northerners would like to join Scotland and go independent, are we really that bad down South?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ophieslut OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Central

"NO to British who live abroad as they live and abroad and not in the UK

But what if the vote forces them to have to return to the UK? Isn't it fair that they should have a say in their destiny?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Those on the electoral role, or hold a uk passport.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"NO to British who live abroad as they live and abroad and not in the UK

But what if the vote forces them to have to return to the UK? Isn't it fair that they should have a say in their destiny?

if they live in spain for example and plan to stay there, its not going to affect them is it

thats why i said no

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Appenrently a lot of northerners would like to join Scotland and go independent, are we really that bad down South?"

Some northerners might. This northerner wouldn't. It's more a reaction to the dominance of London at the expense of the northern regional economies in my view.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Appenrently a lot of northerners would like to join Scotland and go independent, are we really that bad down South?

Some northerners might. This northerner wouldn't. It's more a reaction to the dominance of London at the expense of the northern regional economies in my view."

That's good to hear, and do have sympathy with that view!

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

To have the electorate vote on matters of such dense gravity would be a debacle. The majority of citizens are ill-informed to make a credible decision. The resulting vote would be based on views swayed by emotive, sensationalist rhetoric and fickle judgement. The democratically elected spokespersons have to decide, for they have that duty of care to the citizens.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I'm still wondering why the English didn't get a vote regarding independence from Scotland."

Because its bugger all to do with the English,irish,peruvian,,dutch,etc

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Appenrently a lot of northerners would like to join Scotland and go independent, are we really that bad down South?"

it has nothing to do with southerners being bad or good and its NOT anti English.

its about scots wanting to govern themselves

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *eithoWoman
over a year ago

Chatham

"NO to British who live abroad as they live and abroad and not in the UK

But what if the vote forces them to have to return to the UK? Isn't it fair that they should have a say in their destiny?

if they live in spain for example and plan to stay there, its not going to affect them is it

thats why i said no"

But it might not depend on what they plan to do. It would depend on their being granted a visa to stay, which may or may not happen? Given the animosity of the Spanish levied at elderly Brits in Spain, we may indeed see them being returned home.

I have friends living in mainland Europe. If we leave the EU they may be forced to return home, especially those who don't own property in their country of residence.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

That's democracy for you.

We all have a stake in the uk, it's upto people to educate themselves and vote.

The ancient Greeks declared it a"civil duty"

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I'm still wondering why the English didn't get a vote regarding independence from Scotland."

Same here.

Suspect that Salmond perhaps was of the belief that if 5 Million Scots voted, he'd get the 'Yes' he was after, but if 65 million Brits (English, Welsh, Scottish and Northern Irish) voted he'd be less likely to get that result.

Despite him being a hugely divisive figure.

I've never had a problem with the Scots, but due to Alex Salmonds comments and behaviour alone, I would have voted for Scotland to be given independence had I been given a say in the referendum.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"NO to British who live abroad as they live and abroad and not in the UK

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ophieslut OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Central

Whichever way the voting is cut, it could have a major influence upon the decision.

EU nationals who live here, for example, are a fairly large group and I'd assume that they'd vote UK to stay in the EU.

Likewise, British citizens living abroad are another sizeable group.

Some of these people may lose their businesses, their homes and of course their dreams.

It's unlikely to be as simple as who could normally vote in an election. Plus the Scots have had voting at 16 for referendums, so should the UK have all above 16, for equality?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *icky999Man
over a year ago

warrington

Anybody who has got the stones for a civil war if some f***er tries to take over my country. Vote away, fill your boots.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ophieslut OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Central

Some figures -

almost 2 million British live abroad.

probably a few million EU nationals living here, possibly some with British partners, such as Farage's wife.

In the recent election, British citizens, and qualifying Commonwealth citizens and citizens of the Republic of Ireland resident in the UK were, if registered, eligible to vote.

There are some sizeable numbers involved, that will have a heavy influence upon the result.

Will the border between Northern Ireland and the Irish Republic become a closed border, if ROI continues as part of the EU - and there's no plan there to change it. An open border could mean easy access for any person in the EU to get into the UK. Lots of complexities.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's got nothing to do with anyone except UK citizens. In effect we are the stakeholders of uk PLC, the old saying of the buck stops here applies to every citizen

Democracy must take place whether we like the answer or not!

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *icky999Man
over a year ago

warrington

"It's got nothing to do with anyone except UK citizens. In effect we are the stakeholders of uk PLC, the old saying of the buck stops here applies to every citizen

Democracy must take place whether we like the answer or not!"

nobody can vote to give my country away. I aint selling!!!!

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ophieslut OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Central

"It's got nothing to do with anyone except UK citizens. In effect we are the stakeholders of uk PLC, the old saying of the buck stops here applies to every citizen

Democracy must take place whether we like the answer or not!"

But, if EU residents can vote here, as they may be home owners, partners to British citizens etc (and any non EU partners of British citizens who live here).

The ramifications of us pulling out of the EU are such that millions of Brits who live abroad will potentially have to return to live here. They could be said to have a much larger impact on their lives, due to this vote, than others who might potentially vote.

I'm unsure about it, I see the pros and cons of most of these groups.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *kin BohnerMan
over a year ago

derby

As it will be a vote about UK membership of the EU it should only be UK passport holders living in the UK. Exactly the same as the Scottish referendum a few months ago was only for Scotts living in Scotland.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It's got nothing to do with anyone except UK citizens. In effect we are the stakeholders of uk PLC, the old saying of the buck stops here applies to every citizen

Democracy must take place whether we like the answer or not!

But, if EU residents can vote here, as they may be home owners, partners to British citizens etc (and any non EU partners of British citizens who live here).

I'm unsure about it, I see the pros and cons of most of these groups."
.

I understand what your saying but that was their decision, if they applied for UK citizenship they get a vote, if they didn't they don't.

If I work in Dubai I wouldn't expect to make in roads on their affairs in just living by their rules to make a livelihood.

If owning property gives you a right to vote, then do we let Vladimir Putin vote, do we let corporations vote, the list would be endless!.

Citizenship can be the only criteria,residency is a temporary transition which means you have interests elsewhere!

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *exymatcplMan
over a year ago

doncaster

"Appenrently a lot of northerners would like to join Scotland and go independent, are we really that bad down South?"

?yes

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *bi HaiveMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Cheeseville, Somerset

"Where you live is irrelevant.

It's a decision that effects all UK nationals, the uk belongs to UK citizens everywhere!"

So why didn't the English, Welsh and Northern Irish get a say in the Scottish independence vote?

If - as you say - the UK belongs to UK citizens everywhere?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 15/05/15 14:20:58]

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ethnmelvCouple
over a year ago

Cardiff

Anyone registered to vote in a UK General Election - it is as important. And we would both vote to be in the EU if anyone asked

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If we're using it as an example, the following were allowed to vote in the Scottish referendum as well as extending the vote to people 16 and over:

•British citizens resident in Scotland.

•Commonwealth citizens resident in Scotland who have leave to remain in the UK or do not require such leave.

•Citizens of the Republic of Ireland and other EU countries resident in Scotland.

•Members of the House of Lords resident in Scotland.

•Service personnel serving in the UK or overseas with the armed forces who are registered to vote in Scotland.

•Crown personnel serving outside the UK with HM Government who are registered to vote in Scotland.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I thought no it should be anyone over age of 16 who has or is entitled to, a British passport and who's permanent address in in the UK.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ophieslut OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Central

"It's got nothing to do with anyone except UK citizens. In effect we are the stakeholders of uk PLC, the old saying of the buck stops here applies to every citizen

Democracy must take place whether we like the answer or not!

But, if EU residents can vote here, as they may be home owners, partners to British citizens etc (and any non EU partners of British citizens who live here).

I'm unsure about it, I see the pros and cons of most of these groups..

----------------------------------------

...If I work in Dubai I wouldn't expect to make in roads on their affairs in just living by their rules to make a livelihood.

Citizenship can be the only criteria,residency is a temporary transition which means you have interests elsewhere!"

I don't know Dubai's state of affairs, but currently British citizens can live in the EU, so it's a legal entitlement, alongside whatever voting principles operate in those countries - I imagine it's quite different in Dubai!

What some are saying, is that British citizens who legally went to live abroad, could have their lives there curtailed by others - but not them - who would vote, which could potentially cut short their investments and lives in another country, where they went, very legally, to live. On such an important measure, surely they get a right to vote?

These are going to be viewpoints that various parties will be proclaiming in coming months.

Wouldn't it have been right for the Conservatives to have been absolutely clear, before the election, upon who was going to be able to vote upon all or our interests and future lives?

Will an influx of expats, forced to return, if they no longer hold rights to live in an EU country, change things here? The NHS, housing/prices etc? Will they be richer than many hereand hold large asset bases, thus pushing up house prices here? Would they forgive the Conservatives, for holding a referendum, on which they had no say, that forced them to return here?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Where you live is irrelevant.

It's a decision that effects all UK nationals, the uk belongs to UK citizens everywhere!

So why didn't the English, Welsh and Northern Irish get a say in the Scottish independence vote?

If - as you say - the UK belongs to UK citizens everywhere?

A"
.

The Scottish were voting to leave the uk.

The welsh, Irish and English would have remained in the UK, therefore we didn't get a vote.

Using your logic the entire of Europe would be voting as to whether the UK should leave the EU

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It's got nothing to do with anyone except UK citizens. In effect we are the stakeholders of uk PLC, the old saying of the buck stops here applies to every citizen

Democracy must take place whether we like the answer or not!

But, if EU residents can vote here, as they may be home owners, partners to British citizens etc (and any non EU partners of British citizens who live here).

I'm unsure about it, I see the pros and cons of most of these groups..

----------------------------------------

...If I work in Dubai I wouldn't expect to make in roads on their affairs in just living by their rules to make a livelihood.

Citizenship can be the only criteria,residency is a temporary transition which means you have interests elsewhere!

These are going to be viewpoints that various parties will be proclaiming in coming months.

Wouldn't it have been right for the Conservatives to have been absolutely clear, before the election, upon who was going to be able to vote upon all or our interests and future lives?

"
.

That's why I stated that all UK citizens should vote regardless of where they live!

Residency is a poor way to allocate voting rights as like I said in my mind residency is a temporary transit and therefore you could have interests elsewhere

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *anchestercubMan
over a year ago

manchester & NI

"As it will be a vote about UK membership of the EU it should only be UK passport holders living in the UK. Exactly the same as the Scottish referendum a few months ago was only for Scotts living in Scotland. "

It was for anyone living in Scotland, not just Scots, who met the criteria.

We allow citizens who live abroad to vote in elections so I imagine they'd be allowed to vote in the referendum.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *lik and PaulCouple
over a year ago

cahoots

"I'm still wondering why the English didn't get a vote regarding independence from Scotland.

Because its bugger all to do with the English,irish,peruvian,,dutch,etc"

I think breaking up the United Kingdom would have something to do with the English personally.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *bi HaiveMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Cheeseville, Somerset

"Where you live is irrelevant.

It's a decision that effects all UK nationals, the uk belongs to UK citizens everywhere!

So why didn't the English, Welsh and Northern Irish get a say in the Scottish independence vote?

If - as you say - the UK belongs to UK citizens everywhere?

The Scottish were voting to leave the uk.

The welsh, Irish and English would have remained in the UK, therefore we didn't get a vote.

Using your logic the entire of Europe would be voting as to whether the UK should leave the EU"

Yep.

But by logic the Scottish leaving would have affected the rest of the UK - therefore why shouldn't we have had a say?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ophieslut OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Central

It was for anyone living in Scotland, not just Scots, who met the criteria.

We allow citizens who live abroad to vote in elections so I imagine they'd be allowed to vote in the referendum."

I largely support your position. But, I think the politicians will slice and dice the potential voter eligibility, in order to get the result that they want.

There's a differential of approaching 8 million voters, depending upon which way eligibility is decided. Such a difference is going to have a massive likely change to the result.

EU citizens living here, I'm thinking, would vote for the UK to stay in Europe.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Where you live is irrelevant.

It's a decision that effects all UK nationals, the uk belongs to UK citizens everywhere!

So why didn't the English, Welsh and Northern Irish get a say in the Scottish independence vote?

If - as you say - the UK belongs to UK citizens everywhere?

The Scottish were voting to leave the uk.

The welsh, Irish and English would have remained in the UK, therefore we didn't get a vote.

Using your logic the entire of Europe would be voting as to whether the UK should leave the EU

Yep.

But by logic the Scottish leaving would have affected the rest of the UK - therefore why shouldn't we have had a say?

A"
.

No technically speaking the UK would have stayed exactly the same minus the country of Scotland.

Same as the European union would stay exactly the same minus the state of the UK.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *anchestercubMan
over a year ago

manchester & NI

It was for anyone living in Scotland, not just Scots, who met the criteria.

We allow citizens who live abroad to vote in elections so I imagine they'd be allowed to vote in the referendum.

I largely support your position. But, I think the politicians will slice and dice the potential voter eligibility, in order to get the result that they want.

There's a differential of approaching 8 million voters, depending upon which way eligibility is decided. Such a difference is going to have a massive likely change to the result.

EU citizens living here, I'm thinking, would vote for the UK to stay in Europe. "

It's not my position it's the law.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"NO to British who live abroad as they live and abroad and not in the UK

But what if the vote forces them to have to return to the UK? Isn't it fair that they should have a say in their destiny?

if they live in spain for example and plan to stay there, its not going to affect them is it

thats why i said no"

? Well what if they're not allowed to stay or work there? Surely it affects them more than you?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It was for anyone living in Scotland, not just Scots, who met the criteria.

We allow citizens who live abroad to vote in elections so I imagine they'd be allowed to vote in the referendum.

I largely support your position. But, I think the politicians will slice and dice the potential voter eligibility, in order to get the result that they want.

There's a differential of approaching 8 million voters, depending upon which way eligibility is decided. Such a difference is going to have a massive likely change to the result.

EU citizens living here, I'm thinking, would vote for the UK to stay in Europe. "
.

That's why I disagree with citizens of other countries voting in UK matters.

It's a difficult one but in my mind citizenship is more permanent than residency! And that's why I'd discount residency.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *UNKIEMan
over a year ago

south east

Anyone eligible to vote under our current selection system also extending to 16 and 17 yr olds as its their future we're gambling with

if the scottish referendum taught this country anything its 16 n 17 yr olds are not the daft little kids some thought they were ..they were VERY engaged throughout the whole process

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *anchestercubMan
over a year ago

manchester & NI

"Anyone eligible to vote under our current selection system also extending to 16 and 17 yr olds as its their future we're gambling with

if the scottish referendum taught this country anything its 16 n 17 yr olds are not the daft little kids some thought they were ..they were VERY engaged throughout the whole process

That's the only change I think will happen.

It doesn't seem fair to have 90 year old who won't be around much longer to live with the changes yet deny a younger person the vote who will have to live with those changes for decades.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *bi HaiveMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Cheeseville, Somerset

"Where you live is irrelevant.

It's a decision that effects all UK nationals, the uk belongs to UK citizens everywhere!

So why didn't the English, Welsh and Northern Irish get a say in the Scottish independence vote?

If - as you say - the UK belongs to UK citizens everywhere?

The Scottish were voting to leave the uk.

The welsh, Irish and English would have remained in the UK, therefore we didn't get a vote.

Using your logic the entire of Europe would be voting as to whether the UK should leave the EU

Yep.

But by logic the Scottish leaving would have affected the rest of the UK - therefore why shouldn't we have had a say?

No technically speaking the UK would have stayed exactly the same minus the country of Scotland.

Same as the European union would stay exactly the same minus the state of the UK."

Exactly the same?

Apart from new border controls, exonomic issues, employment issues, property ownership issues, business movements and migrations, currency issues, arguments over who owns the oil and who owes what proportion of prior debts........

Yeah.

Exactly the same.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *anchestercubMan
over a year ago

manchester & NI

It would be interesting to see the figures of people seeking naturalisation over the next year or so.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ophieslut OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Central

Who will enjoy waiting in the longer waiting lines, for non EU citizens, when visiting EU countries?

Will Eurostar travel differ significantly, with immigration checks?

I see the whole referendum as complex, and just voting eligibility is very complex and largely to cause a lot of consternation.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Where you live is irrelevant.

It's a decision that effects all UK nationals, the uk belongs to UK citizens everywhere!

So why didn't the English, Welsh and Northern Irish get a say in the Scottish independence vote?

If - as you say - the UK belongs to UK citizens everywhere?

The Scottish were voting to leave the uk.

The welsh, Irish and English would have remained in the UK, therefore we didn't get a vote.

Using your logic the entire of Europe would be voting as to whether the UK should leave the EU

Yep.

But by logic the Scottish leaving would have affected the rest of the UK - therefore why shouldn't we have had a say?

No technically speaking the UK would have stayed exactly the same minus the country of Scotland.

Same as the European union would stay exactly the same minus the state of the UK.

Exactly the same?

Yeah.

Exactly the same.

A"
.

Your being extremely finicky.

The uk is a union of four countries.

One can vote to leave of it wishes without it effecting the rest of the union.

What you would want, would give the right of three nations to hold one nation in that union against their wishes, you either have sovereign states or you don't.

Like Texas can't leave the usa because Texas isn't a sovereign state, it's one country

Unions are totally different and I'm not a fan of either a union or federal state!

What we know is power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely, why would I want to give even more powers to people I know it would only corrupt!

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Who will enjoy waiting in the longer waiting lines, for non EU citizens, when visiting EU countries?

Will Eurostar travel differ significantly, with immigration checks?

I see the whole referendum as complex, and just voting eligibility is very complex and largely to cause a lot of consternation."
.

Do you enjoy standing in the line for US holidays or Caribbean ones what about holiday makers to Australia or new Zealand?

Do they get into the union just to get rid of the line at an airport?

Small matters should not override large matters!

To me countries should be as small as possible, there governments tend to be much better than the big ones

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ngel n tedCouple
over a year ago

maidstone

Haven't folk been moving abroad for years, before all this free movement bollocks, why would suddenly everyone be forced to come back? If people wanted to stay, i imagine they could just do it through proper channels, if we were to leave the eu

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *kin BohnerMan
over a year ago

derby

It was for anyone living in Scotland, not just Scots, who met the criteria.

We allow citizens who live abroad to vote in elections so I imagine they'd be allowed to vote in the referendum."

Point taken, almost anyone living in Scotland had the vote. My mistake. But my point still stands, only those in Scotland had a say on Scotland leaving the UK. So the same criteria should be applied to the UK vote on leaving the EU. Though I do think those from other EU countries should be excluded.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *anchestercubMan
over a year ago

manchester & NI

It was for anyone living in Scotland, not just Scots, who met the criteria.

We allow citizens who live abroad to vote in elections so I imagine they'd be allowed to vote in the referendum.

Firstly, because Scotland is not it's own country, in the sense that it cannot confer citizenship, it was impossible to administer a referendum for citizens only.

Secondly, Scotland's policy was that anyone who was living in Scotland at the time of the referendum was considered to be a Scottish citizen if independence won.

Therefore your rights to live in Scotland stopped being enshrined in the Union but by defacto citizenship of Scotland.

There is no such plan for European countries to offer citizenship to British emigrants living in those countries if the UK votes to leave the EU.

What you're saying is that you only want resident citizens to have the vote - that's not going to fly.

Non-resident British citizens have the right to vote in national elections, I don't see how that can feasibly not include a national referendum.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

"Any one who is eligible and on the electoral register as in all elections "

EU citizens are aloud to register to vote but are not aloud to vote in General Elections. So should they be aloud to vote in referendum?

For the record I would say Yes they should.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *anchestercubMan
over a year ago

manchester & NI

"Any one who is eligible and on the electoral register as in all elections

EU citizens are aloud to register to vote but are not aloud to vote in General Elections. So should they be aloud to vote in referendum?

For the record I would say Yes they should."

I thought they couldn't register - thanks for that.

But that begs the question of why they're allowed to register but not to vote! Are they allowed to vote only in local elections?

Non-resident citizens can't vote in local elections but can vote in national elections - so maybe it's the reverse for resident non-citizens.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

"Appenrently a lot of northerners would like to join Scotland and go independent, are we really that bad down South?"

I don't know where you found them but that's not my experience. Most northerners would no sooner want to be part of Scotland than they would want to be part of France or Germany. Nothing against the Scots but the people of northern England are English, probably more English than the people of Southern England.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

"NO to British who live abroad as they live and abroad and not in the UK

But what if the vote forces them to have to return to the UK? Isn't it fair that they should have a say in their destiny?

if they live in spain for example and plan to stay there, its not going to affect them is it

thats why i said no"

But if we left the EU those people would no longer have the right to live in Spain unless the UK government came to an arrangement with the Spanish government.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It's got nothing to do with anyone except UK citizens. In effect we are the stakeholders of uk PLC, the old saying of the buck stops here applies to every citizen

Democracy must take place whether we like the answer or not!

But, if EU residents can vote here, as they may be home owners, partners to British citizens etc (and any non EU partners of British citizens who live here).

I'm unsure about it, I see the pros and cons of most of these groups."

Very strange what you are saying in this statement. So does that mean all citizens of the EEC such as the citizens of Switzerland, Iceland and Norway may not live in let us say Germany France Spain and elsewhere...

Pardon but this is not the case at all. It is up to a country in example Italy to determine who lives in their boarders and I (m) presume from my relatives in Germany, France, Italy and Switzerland that they would prefer a British citizen living in their country paying tax then some one from a different country drawing benefits.

If you are all so worried about this issue look up at the Swiss people's vote of last February 2014 in which the citizens of Switzerland voted with 51% "yes" to limit the number of foreign nationals moving into Switzerland.

Switzerland has had no negative issues staying outside the EU and is a main export of products to Germany (74.24%). All this scare mongering from parties that Britain would close down if leaving the EU is incorrect. For example how would an Airbus fly without wings from Wales? Or would BWM cut off their noses by closing down the Mini production ? Would Deutsche Bank close down their biggest profit center in the world by shutting their offices in London ?

The answer is no - speak to Germans and most will say they understand the issues the British have

The BBC paints an one sided picture to the whole issue and debate on Europe..

Listen to the debates on Radio Luxemburg or TV France and you see the same issues we have, they have and it is not black or white but a big shade of grey (No you perv's NOT that Grey ...sighs Fabbers and their dirty thoughts...)

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ophieslut OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Central

I think it can and will be very strongly argued that those British who live abroad should get the right to vote on this. I can imagine they'd vote for us to stay in, so it will partly depend upon what outcome the government would like to get from the vote.

I'm in favor of us remaining in, but that's another thread.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

"To have the electorate vote on matters of such dense gravity would be a debacle. The majority of citizens are ill-informed to make a credible decision. The resulting vote would be based on views swayed by emotive, sensationalist rhetoric and fickle judgement. The democratically elected spokespersons have to decide, for they have that duty of care to the citizens. "

I actually agree. It should be the job of government to govern, not pass the buck on to the citizenship. However the decision to have a referendum has been all but made. All we can do is hope we get the right result.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *anchestercubMan
over a year ago

manchester & NI

"It's got nothing to do with anyone except UK citizens. In effect we are the stakeholders of uk PLC, the old saying of the buck stops here applies to every citizen

Democracy must take place whether we like the answer or not!

But, if EU residents can vote here, as they may be home owners, partners to British citizens etc (and any non EU partners of British citizens who live here).

I'm unsure about it, I see the pros and cons of most of these groups.

The answer is no - speak to Germans and most will say they understand the issues the British have

The BBC paints an one sided picture to the whole issue and debate on Europe..

They Swiss outcome is yet unknown - I don't know how you can make definitive declarations.

There is a 3 year gap from 2014 until quotas are to be introduced.

The EU has said that agreements to meet both Swiss and EU law need to be taken into account but that the referendum result could restrict Swiss access to the single market.

They have until 2017 to make those arrangements.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Appenrently a lot of northerners would like to join Scotland and go independent, are we really that bad down South?

Some northerners might. This northerner wouldn't. It's more a reaction to the dominance of London at the expense of the northern regional economies in my view."

Isn't Manchester getting a Mayor & some devolved power from London?

So it is happening slowly!!

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

Actually I think it was for anybody resident in Scotland. Not sure of the full details but English people resident in Scotland could vote.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

"Where you live is irrelevant.

It's a decision that effects all UK nationals, the uk belongs to UK citizens everywhere!

So why didn't the English, Welsh and Northern Irish get a say in the Scottish independence vote?

If - as you say - the UK belongs to UK citizens everywhere?

The Scottish were voting to leave the uk.

The welsh, Irish and English would have remained in the UK, therefore we didn't get a vote.

Using your logic the entire of Europe would be voting as to whether the UK should leave the EU

Yep.

But by logic the Scottish leaving would have affected the rest of the UK - therefore why shouldn't we have had a say?

For a similar reason that if your partner wants to leave you you don't get the right to veto that choice.

If Scotland can't be persuaded to stay in the Union, like it or not, we'd have to let it go.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ophieslut OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Central

I think Scotland will want to stay in the EU, so can't see their mps voting for this to happen anyway.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *anchestercubMan
over a year ago

manchester & NI

"I think Scotland will want to stay in the EU, so can't see their mps voting for this to happen anyway."

I think that's why they will vote for it.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I think Scotland will want to stay in the EU, so can't see their mps voting for this to happen anyway."

Wouldnt matter anyway, Scottish MP's are outnumbered 591-59 by non Scots MP's.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *kin BohnerMan
over a year ago

derby

It was for anyone living in Scotland, not just Scots, who met the criteria.

We allow citizens who live abroad to vote in elections so I imagine they'd be allowed to vote in the referendum.

Firstly, because Scotland is not it's own country, in the sense that it cannot confer citizenship, it was impossible to administer a referendum for citizens only.

Secondly, Scotland's policy was that anyone who was living in Scotland at the time of the referendum was considered to be a Scottish citizen if independence won.

Therefore your rights to live in Scotland stopped being enshrined in the Union but by defacto citizenship of Scotland.

There is no such plan for European countries to offer citizenship to British emigrants living in those countries if the UK votes to leave the EU.

What you're saying is that you only want resident citizens to have the vote - that's not going to fly.

Non-resident British citizens have the right to vote in national elections, I don't see how that can feasibly not include a national referendum. "

Try telling a Scott that Scotland is not its own country. Having lived in two European countries I could not give a stuff who they give citizenship to and I also saw no mention of none British being given Scottish citizenship if the referendum had gone the other way! I also do not accept that those living abroad should have a vote in any election or referendum in their native country unless they are considered as domicile like the armed forces. They took the choice to leave, end of story.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I think Scotland will want to stay in the EU, so can't see their mps voting for this to happen anyway.

Wouldnt matter anyway, Scottish MP's are outnumbered 591-59 by non Scots MP's. "

Which is entirely proportionate with the population of the country...

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Vote on in/out???? Anyone with a belly button!

more seriously these days citizenship or passport means nothing as they've been given away kik smartys but all governments to all and sundry! Who should vote? Anyone who thinks this country should stand up for itself,have a trading,but not ruled by eu,relationship with Europe as originally intended then we can take control of our borders,make better use of the fifty million£s a day!

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Appenrently a lot of northerners would like to join Scotland and go independent, are we really that bad down South?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Appenrently a lot of northerners would like to join Scotland and go independent, are we really that bad down South?

Some northerners might. This northerner wouldn't. It's more a reaction to the dominance of London at the expense of the northern regional economies in my view.

That's good to hear, and do have sympathy with that view!

The north should have it's own parliament like Scotland, but the dirty selfish torries won't let that happen.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"Who will enjoy waiting in the longer waiting lines, for non EU citizens, when visiting EU countries?

Will Eurostar travel differ significantly, with immigration checks?

I see the whole referendum as complex, and just voting eligibility is very complex and largely to cause a lot of consternation..

Do you enjoy standing in the line for US holidays or Caribbean ones what about holiday makers to Australia or new Zealand?

Do they get into the union just to get rid of the line at an airport?

Small matters should not override large matters!

To me countries should be as small as possible, there governments tend to be much better than the big ones"

I agree, and standing in longer lines at airports is just scaremongering rubbish. As is saying all Brits will be forced to come back to the UK. Even if i did have to stand in a longer line at the airport i would be happy to do it if it meant we had taken back control of our own borders from the EU.

UKIP have said they would not send EU citizens already here back to their own countries in the event of us leaving the EU, i don't think the conservatives would either. Likewise other EU countries would not force British citizens who work or settle abroad back here to the UK. Did'nt people live and work abroad before the EU was even invented?

People go and live and work and settle all over the world outside of the EU, so why do people think they have to be in the EU to do such a thing in europe?

There is no logic in it at all.

People call UKIP little englanders, but the pro-EU brigade are all in fact Little EU'ers, they can't seem to think outside of the EU, they need to realise there is a whole wide world out there beyond the borders of the EU. Brits go to live and work and settle in countries outside of the EU perfectly fine, why can't they do the same in europe, when we leave the EU?

We don't need to be in a close political union with them for these things to happen, and outside the EU we can manage our own affairs much better.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

"It's got nothing to do with anyone except UK citizens. In effect we are the stakeholders of uk PLC, the old saying of the buck stops here applies to every citizen

Democracy must take place whether we like the answer or not!

But, if EU residents can vote here, as they may be home owners, partners to British citizens etc (and any non EU partners of British citizens who live here).

I'm unsure about it, I see the pros and cons of most of these groups.

The answer is no - speak to Germans and most will say they understand the issues the British have

The BBC paints an one sided picture to the whole issue and debate on Europe..

The fact is is that if we leave the EU them British Citizens will no longer have the right to live and work within the EU as EU citizens. Whether they are all kicked out or not is another matter. Each individual state within the EU will have to come to it's own arrangement with the UK government as to what status British Citizens would have in each country. I would guess that most would treat British Citizens the same way Britain would treat others EU citizens. Which basically means that if we treat them the same as we treat them now them they will treat us the same as we do now, if we don't they won't either. So we either kick about 2 million EU citizens out of Britain and get back about 2 million British Citizens from the EU (which to me seems like a lot of unnecessary moving people around again their will with little if any benefit for anyone) or we allow them all to stay, have no change in British immigration policy and hope the EU lets British Citizens stay with in the EU. Basically this removes one of the main arguments for leaving.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's funny if you'd asked me in 1995 you'd have found the biggest eu supporter you'd ever come across, I've lost the belief that the eu promised!

It's turned into yet another giant monolithic sycophantic Napoleonic monstrosity!

It still does great admirable things and I hope it has the ability to change but I don't hold much hope for it!. The Germans have pointed out when push comes to shove it's every state for itself.

The really funny thing is, in 1995 I was the only pro eu person, now I'm anti eu and everyone else is pro

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

"Appenrently a lot of northerners would like to join Scotland and go independent, are we really that bad down South?

Some northerners might. This northerner wouldn't. It's more a reaction to the dominance of London at the expense of the northern regional economies in my view.

Isn't Manchester getting a Mayor & some devolved power from London?

So it is happening slowly!!"

The argument for devolved powers for the regions of Britain should not be seen as support for either Scottish devolution or independence from the Northern regions. In fact quite the opposite. The further devolution or independence for Scotland would me a total disaster for the whole of middle Britain causing major interruptions to simple every day business that currently goes on on both sides of the border.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'll give old Thatcher that!

She certainly didn't want those Germans reuniting for nothing

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

"Appenrently a lot of northerners would like to join Scotland and go independent, are we really that bad down South?

Some northerners might. This northerner wouldn't. It's more a reaction to the dominance of London at the expense of the northern regional economies in my view.

That's good to hear, and do have sympathy with that view!

The north should have it's own parliament like Scotland, but the dirty selfish torries won't let that happen."

And the kind hearted, selfless Labour will give them one with out a thought to fact that they rely on Northern votes to have chance of getting into government where the real power and wealth is, southern England.

Get real mate.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"It's funny if you'd asked me in 1995 you'd have found the biggest eu supporter you'd ever come across, I've lost the belief that the eu promised!

It's turned into yet another giant monolithic sycophantic Napoleonic monstrosity!

It still does great admirable things and I hope it has the ability to change but I don't hold much hope for it!. The Germans have pointed out when push comes to shove it's every state for itself.

The really funny thing is, in 1995 I was the only pro eu person, now I'm anti eu and everyone else is pro

No you are not the only one, 4 million people who voted UKIP in the general election definately agree with you.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

"Who will enjoy waiting in the longer waiting lines, for non EU citizens, when visiting EU countries?

Will Eurostar travel differ significantly, with immigration checks?

I see the whole referendum as complex, and just voting eligibility is very complex and largely to cause a lot of consternation..

Do you enjoy standing in the line for US holidays or Caribbean ones what about holiday makers to Australia or new Zealand?

Do they get into the union just to get rid of the line at an airport?

Small matters should not override large matters!

To me countries should be as small as possible, there governments tend to be much better than the big ones

People go and live and work and settle all over the world outside of the EU, so why do people think they have to be in the EU to do such a thing in europe?

There is no logic in it at all.

We don't need to be in a close political union with them for these things to happen, and outside the EU we can manage our own affairs much better. "

You may be right, maybe the EU won't send all British Citizens back, you probably are but currently ALL British Citizens have the absolute right to live and work anywhere in the EU because, as British Citizens, they are also EU citizens. If Britain is no longer a member of the EU then they will not have the right as EU citizens to live and work in the EU. That us irrefutable and undeniable fact, not scare mongering

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

"It's funny if you'd asked me in 1995 you'd have found the biggest eu supporter you'd ever come across, I've lost the belief that the eu promised!

It's turned into yet another giant monolithic sycophantic Napoleonic monstrosity!

It still does great admirable things and I hope it has the ability to change but I don't hold much hope for it!. The Germans have pointed out when push comes to shove it's every state for itself.

The really funny thing is, in 1995 I was the only pro eu person, now I'm anti eu and everyone else is pro

No you are not the only one, 4 million people who voted UKIP in the general election definately agree with you. "

Umm, I wonder how many in 'safe labour seats' voted UKIP to try and keep Labour out. I know a few personally and they're not Europhobes really.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It's funny if you'd asked me in 1995 you'd have found the biggest eu supporter you'd ever come across, I've lost the belief that the eu promised!

It's turned into yet another giant monolithic sycophantic Napoleonic monstrosity!

It still does great admirable things and I hope it has the ability to change but I don't hold much hope for it!. The Germans have pointed out when push comes to shove it's every state for itself.

The really funny thing is, in 1995 I was the only pro eu person, now I'm anti eu and everyone else is pro

No you are not the only one, 4 million people who voted UKIP in the general election definately agree with you.

Umm, I wonder how many in 'safe labour seats' voted UKIP to try and keep Labour out. I know a few personally and they're not Europhobes really."
.

Hey up back from Benidorm with the orders from HQ mate

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It's funny if you'd asked me in 1995 you'd have found the biggest eu supporter you'd ever come across, I've lost the belief that the eu promised!

It's turned into yet another giant monolithic sycophantic Napoleonic monstrosity!

It still does great admirable things and I hope it has the ability to change but I don't hold much hope for it!. The Germans have pointed out when push comes to shove it's every state for itself.

The really funny thing is, in 1995 I was the only pro eu person, now I'm anti eu and everyone else is pro

No you are not the only one, 4 million people who voted UKIP in the general election definately agree with you. "

And of course 28 million didn't agree with UKIP at all - some of them will have agreed with you too, so there's no need to feel completely alone.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"It's funny if you'd asked me in 1995 you'd have found the biggest eu supporter you'd ever come across, I've lost the belief that the eu promised!

It's turned into yet another giant monolithic sycophantic Napoleonic monstrosity!

It still does great admirable things and I hope it has the ability to change but I don't hold much hope for it!. The Germans have pointed out when push comes to shove it's every state for itself.

The really funny thing is, in 1995 I was the only pro eu person, now I'm anti eu and everyone else is pro

No you are not the only one, 4 million people who voted UKIP in the general election definately agree with you.

Umm, I wonder how many in 'safe labour seats' voted UKIP to try and keep Labour out. I know a few personally and they're not Europhobes really."

....and the number which was around 4 million again who voted UKIP in last years european election. Did they vote to keep Labour out or did they vote UKIP because they wanted to send a cear message to the EU that we wanted out?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It's funny if you'd asked me in 1995 you'd have found the biggest eu supporter you'd ever come across, I've lost the belief that the eu promised!

It's turned into yet another giant monolithic sycophantic Napoleonic monstrosity!

It still does great admirable things and I hope it has the ability to change but I don't hold much hope for it!. The Germans have pointed out when push comes to shove it's every state for itself.

The really funny thing is, in 1995 I was the only pro eu person, now I'm anti eu and everyone else is pro

Yet another? What are the other giant monolithic sycophantic Napoleonic monstrosities that have upset you so much?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *andS66Couple
over a year ago

Derby

Are they not Ill-informed to make a credible decision in general elections then? I know very few, if any, people who actually read any of the manifestos, but I know lots of people who voted for...... because their parents/ grandparents etc did.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Where you live is irrelevant.

It's a decision that effects all UK nationals, the uk belongs to UK citizens everywhere!"

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It's funny if you'd asked me in 1995 you'd have found the biggest eu supporter you'd ever come across, I've lost the belief that the eu promised!

It's turned into yet another giant monolithic sycophantic Napoleonic monstrosity!

It still does great admirable things and I hope it has the ability to change but I don't hold much hope for it!. The Germans have pointed out when push comes to shove it's every state for itself.

The really funny thing is, in 1995 I was the only pro eu person, now I'm anti eu and everyone else is pro

Yet another? What are the other giant monolithic sycophantic Napoleonic monstrosities that have upset you so much?"
.

The USA

The USSR

The people republic of China

The British empire

The Napoleonic empire....

There's a whole host of previous people with good intentions on a path to disaster

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I think it should be extended to those Britons who live in the wider EU as it will affect them too."

But NOT any non UK born/passport holders or other EU nationals who live here!

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It's funny if you'd asked me in 1995 you'd have found the biggest eu supporter you'd ever come across, I've lost the belief that the eu promised!

It's turned into yet another giant monolithic sycophantic Napoleonic monstrosity!

It still does great admirable things and I hope it has the ability to change but I don't hold much hope for it!. The Germans have pointed out when push comes to shove it's every state for itself.

The really funny thing is, in 1995 I was the only pro eu person, now I'm anti eu and everyone else is pro

Yet another? What are the other giant monolithic sycophantic Napoleonic monstrosities that have upset you so much?.

The USA

The USSR

The people republic of China

The British empire

The Napoleonic empire....

There's a whole host of previous people with good intentions on a path to disaster

Basically you're out of salts with the whole world. You need a good holiday

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yeah I'm thinking of three days in Brussels

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *andS66Couple
over a year ago

Derby

All the British I know, including several family members, who live abroad (France and Spain) would all vote to stay in the EU... however, were they living in the UK, they would ALL vote to come out of the EU.

Their reasoning is that being in the EU suits them in their circumstances, but does not suit the UK as a whole.

We would both vote to come out of the EU, but would want the UK to keep its trading relationships... this is what the EU was originally intended for.... the European Common Market.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It's funny if you'd asked me in 1995 you'd have found the biggest eu supporter you'd ever come across, I've lost the belief that the eu promised!

It's turned into yet another giant monolithic sycophantic Napoleonic monstrosity!

It still does great admirable things and I hope it has the ability to change but I don't hold much hope for it!. The Germans have pointed out when push comes to shove it's every state for itself.

The really funny thing is, in 1995 I was the only pro eu person, now I'm anti eu and everyone else is pro

No you are not the only one, 4 million people who voted UKIP in the general election definately agree with you.

Umm, I wonder how many in 'safe labour seats' voted UKIP to try and keep Labour out. I know a few personally and they're not Europhobes really.

The 10.5 million who didn't vote for UKIP were also sending a clear message along with the 49 MEPs they sent to the European parliament to do a proper job.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"All the British I know, including several family members, who live abroad (France and Spain) would all vote to stay in the EU... however, were they living in the UK, they would ALL vote to come out of the EU.

Their reasoning is that being in the EU suits them in their circumstances, but does not suit the UK as a whole.

We would both vote to come out of the EU, but would want the UK to keep its trading relationships... this is what the EU was originally intended for.... the European Common Market."

I agree, i would like a trade agreement with europe, but nothing more. This ever closer political union bollocks has got out of hand and needs knocking on the head.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"It's funny if you'd asked me in 1995 you'd have found the biggest eu supporter you'd ever come across, I've lost the belief that the eu promised!

It's turned into yet another giant monolithic sycophantic Napoleonic monstrosity!

It still does great admirable things and I hope it has the ability to change but I don't hold much hope for it!. The Germans have pointed out when push comes to shove it's every state for itself.

The really funny thing is, in 1995 I was the only pro eu person, now I'm anti eu and everyone else is pro

No you are not the only one, 4 million people who voted UKIP in the general election definately agree with you.

Umm, I wonder how many in 'safe labour seats' voted UKIP to try and keep Labour out. I know a few personally and they're not Europhobes really.

The 10.5 million who didn't vote for UKIP were also sending a clear message along with the 49 MEPs they sent to the European parliament to do a proper job. "

My word, you don't sound bitter that UKIP won the european election at all do you.