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I've just stepped off my soap box now.... | |||
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"People may not like it, but the Conservatives won the election fair and square and have a majority to govern the UK. I understand people may not be happy with the austerity measures, but at the end of the day this is what the majority of the British people voted for....and this is Democracy! I'm sick of seeing the extremist lot jumping on the anti austerity march in London, and acting in a threatening way towards the Police and the establishment. At least David Cameron, and Nick Clegg (when in office), had the balls to make a stand and make an attempt at getting the deficit down. For too long this country has bent over backwards and allowed people to abuse the benefits system. Its about time hard working people started getting rewarded for hard work, and I believe this is more likely to happen under the tories than any other party. So, stop your marching, put down your banners, and start bloody working!!
I've just stepped off my soap box now...."The majority actually voted for other parties  | |||
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"People may not like it, but the Conservatives won the election fair and square and have a majority to govern the UK. I understand people may not be happy with the austerity measures, but at the end of the day this is what the majority of the British people voted for....and this is Democracy! I'm sick of seeing the extremist lot jumping on the anti austerity march in London, and acting in a threatening way towards the Police and the establishment. At least David Cameron, and Nick Clegg (when in office), had the balls to make a stand and make an attempt at getting the deficit down. For too long this country has bent over backwards and allowed people to abuse the benefits system. Its about time hard working people started getting rewarded for hard work, and I believe this is more likely to happen under the tories than any other party. So, stop your marching, put down your banners, and start bloody working!!
I've just stepped off my soap box now....
The majority actually voted for other parties " | |||
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"The minority don't have to put up with what the majority wants. The minority are also citizens of this country and not represented, politically, right now." Eh  they do thats how it works | |||
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"People may not like it, but the Conservatives won the election fair and square and have a majority to govern the UK. I understand people may not be happy with the austerity measures, but at the end of the day this is what the majority of the British people voted for....and this is Democracy! I'm sick of seeing the extremist lot jumping on the anti austerity march in London, and acting in a threatening way towards the Police and the establishment. At least David Cameron, and Nick Clegg (when in office), had the balls to make a stand and make an attempt at getting the deficit down. For too long this country has bent over backwards and allowed people to abuse the benefits system. Its about time hard working people started getting rewarded for hard work, and I believe this is more likely to happen under the tories than any other party. So, stop your marching, put down your banners, and start bloody working!!
I've just stepped off my soap box now...."Democracy - Anti Austerity Protests. That is how it works - like it or lump it!  | |||
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"People may not like it, but the Conservatives won the election fair and square and have a majority to govern the UK. I understand people may not be happy with the austerity measures, but at the end of the day this is what the majority of the British people voted for....and this is Democracy! I'm sick of seeing the extremist lot jumping on the anti austerity march in London, and acting in a threatening way towards the Police and the establishment. At least David Cameron, and Nick Clegg (when in office), had the balls to make a stand and make an attempt at getting the deficit down. For too long this country has bent over backwards and allowed people to abuse the benefits system. Its about time hard working people started getting rewarded for hard work, and I believe this is more likely to happen under the tories than any other party. So, stop your marching, put down your banners, and start bloody working!!
I've just stepped off my soap box now...."Completely agree well said, we are just getting back on our feet in this country, long may it continue  | |||
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"People may not like it, but the Conservatives won the election fair and square and have a majority to govern the UK. I understand people may not be happy with the austerity measures, but at the end of the day this is what the majority of the British people voted for....and this is Democracy! I'm sick of seeing the extremist lot jumping on the anti austerity march in London, and acting in a threatening way towards the Police and the establishment. At least David Cameron, and Nick Clegg (when in office), had the balls to make a stand and make an attempt at getting the deficit down. For too long this country has bent over backwards and allowed people to abuse the benefits system. Its about time hard working people started getting rewarded for hard work, and I believe this is more likely to happen under the tories than any other party. So, stop your marching, put down your banners, and start bloody working!!
I've just stepped off my soap box now....". These protesters are just criminal thugs who could not care less about anyone . It would be interesting to know how much tax they pay , or if any of then actually work. Clearly they do not believe in democracy . | |||
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Actually I do in every city & big town within the next 3 years.  | |||
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"37% of voted were for conservative, only 66% of the population actually cast their vote. So, a party gets power of 100% of the population when only 1 in 4 actually voted for them. This does not represent what people voted for. crystal " . Why should we worry about those who did not vote ?. Postal votes make voting even easier now | |||
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"37% of voted were for conservative, only 66% of the population actually cast their vote. So, a party gets power of 100% of the population when only 1 in 4 actually voted for them. This does not represent what people voted for. crystal . Why should we worry about those who did not vote ?. Postal votes make voting even easier now " That was not my point. My point is that it only took 25% of people to vote conservative to get them into power 
crystal | |||
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"The minority don't have to put up with what the majority wants. The minority are also citizens of this country and not represented, politically, right now. Eh they do thats how it works"They have to start making demands that they get what they want because the party that doesn't represent them doesn't care if they exist. It's not how it should work at all, minorities have the same human rights that anyone else does, despite who is representing them or not. | |||
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"37% of voted were for conservative, only 66% of the population actually cast their vote. So, a party gets power of 100% of the population when only 1 in 4 actually voted for them. This does not represent what people voted for. crystal " it would be interesting to know how many of the protesters turned out to vote though. | |||
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"People may not like it, but the Conservatives won the election fair and square and have a majority to govern the UK. I understand people may not be happy with the austerity measures, but at the end of the day this is what the majority of the British people voted for....and this is Democracy! I'm sick of seeing the extremist lot jumping on the anti austerity march in London, and acting in a threatening way towards the Police and the establishment. At least David Cameron, and Nick Clegg (when in office), had the balls to make a stand and make an attempt at getting the deficit down. For too long this country has bent over backwards and allowed people to abuse the benefits system. Its about time hard working people started getting rewarded for hard work, and I believe this is more likely to happen under the tories than any other party. So, stop your marching, put down your banners, and start bloody working!!
I've just stepped off my soap box now....
Completely agree well said, we are just getting back on our feet in this country, long may it continue "The debt is actually higher now than it was before. The increase in people in employment is actually down to the massive increase in zero hours contracts. Food banks are more prevelant than they have been for many many years!!! Working people's salaries have not increased with inflation. My salary has actually decreased over the past 10 years!???! How is that right?! And I'm a degree professional. And I'm not the only one... There are people who are working in all sort of jobs who haven't had a pay increase in so many years it's disgraceful! | |||
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"37% of voted were for conservative, only 66% of the population actually cast their vote. So, a party gets power of 100% of the population when only 1 in 4 actually voted for them. This does not represent what people voted for. crystal it would be interesting to know how many of the protesters turned out to vote though." Absolutely. I would love to know the demographic details of those who actually cast their vote and who they voted for. crystal | |||
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"These protesters are just criminal thugs who could not care less about anyone . It would be interesting to know how much tax they pay , or if any of then actually work. Clearly they do not believe in democracy ." Myth. They're angry but most of the protest was peaceful. The news highlighted what they though was newsworthy, so showed one vandalism offnece and the 15 arrests. Hundreds did not get arrested. | |||
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"37% of voted were for conservative, only 66% of the population actually cast their vote. So, a party gets power of 100% of the population when only 1 in 4 actually voted for them. This does not represent what people voted for. crystal " The country had a chance to change the way we vote in 2011 but over half of the population didn't think it was an important enough issue. Of those that did turn up 68% voted to keep it as it is. We can't complain about the voting system everytime a party gets in just because we don't like them, especially as we all had a chance to change it. | |||
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"37% of voted were for conservative, only 66% of the population actually cast their vote. So, a party gets power of 100% of the population when only 1 in 4 actually voted for them. This does not represent what people voted for. crystal The country had a chance to change the way we vote in 2011 but over half of the population didn't think it was an important enough issue. Of those that did turn up 68% voted to keep it as it is. We can't complain about the voting system everytime a party gets in just because we don't like them, especially as we all had a chance to change it. " They were given two shit options. | |||
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"People may not like it, but the Conservatives won the election fair and square and have a majority to govern the UK. I understand people may not be happy with the austerity measures, but at the end of the day this is what the majority of the British people voted for....and this is Democracy! I'm sick of seeing the extremist lot jumping on the anti austerity march in London, and acting in a threatening way towards the Police and the establishment. At least David Cameron, and Nick Clegg (when in office), had the balls to make a stand and make an attempt at getting the deficit down. For too long this country has bent over backwards and allowed people to abuse the benefits system. Its about time hard working people started getting rewarded for hard work, and I believe this is more likely to happen under the tories than any other party. So, stop your marching, put down your banners, and start bloody working!!
I've just stepped off my soap box now....
Completely agree well said, we are just getting back on our feet in this country, long may it continue
The debt is actually higher now than it was before. The increase in people in employment is actually down to the massive increase in zero hours contracts. Food banks are more prevelant than they have been for many many years!!!
Working people's salaries have not increased with inflation. My salary has actually decreased over the past 10 years!???! How is that right?! And I'm a degree professional. And I'm not the only one... There are people who are working in all sort of jobs who haven't had a pay increase in so many years it's disgraceful! "Four years ago there was a referendum about electoral reform, it was rejected out of hand. On Thursday we had an election under the electoral conditions that the country had voted four years earlier to keep. The conservatives won the election and therefore have a mandate to govern. If the people who complain about not being represented were to have voted in the referendum for change then change may have come about. The majority of the people who voted voted for the existing system to stay as it is. It is pointless, verging on ludicrous to not vote for a change of electoral reform, not vote in an election and then riot/protest because others voted for something and you couldn't be bothered. Our democratic system is the envy of the world and through history there are always checks and balances. The protesters and those feeling unrepresentative should consider what possible alternatives there could be as long as they want to live in a free and democratic society. | |||
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"People may not like it, but the Conservatives won the election fair and square and have a majority to govern the UK. I understand people may not be happy with the austerity measures, but at the end of the day this is what the majority of the British people voted for....and this is Democracy! I'm sick of seeing the extremist lot jumping on the anti austerity march in London, and acting in a threatening way towards the Police and the establishment. At least David Cameron, and Nick Clegg (when in office), had the balls to make a stand and make an attempt at getting the deficit down. For too long this country has bent over backwards and allowed people to abuse the benefits system. Its about time hard working people started getting rewarded for hard work, and I believe this is more likely to happen under the tories than any other party. So, stop your marching, put down your banners, and start bloody working!!
I've just stepped off my soap box now...."I have no political comment but, really, why even mention abusing the benefits system. It is a tiny issue financially. It is not worth mentioning. | |||
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"37% of voted were for conservative, only 66% of the population actually cast their vote. So, a party gets power of 100% of the population when only 1 in 4 actually voted for them. This does not represent what people voted for. crystal The country had a chance to change the way we vote in 2011 but over half of the population didn't think it was an important enough issue. Of those that did turn up 68% voted to keep it as it is. We can't complain about the voting system everytime a party gets in just because we don't like them, especially as we all had a chance to change it. " You beat me to it. | |||
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"37% of voted were for conservative, only 66% of the population actually cast their vote. So, a party gets power of 100% of the population when only 1 in 4 actually voted for them. This does not represent what people voted for. crystal The country had a chance to change the way we vote in 2011 but over half of the population didn't think it was an important enough issue. Of those that did turn up 68% voted to keep it as it is. We can't complain about the voting system everytime a party gets in just because we don't like them, especially as we all had a chance to change it. " | |||
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"37% of voted were for conservative, only 66% of the population actually cast their vote. So, a party gets power of 100% of the population when only 1 in 4 actually voted for them. This does not represent what people voted for. crystal The country had a chance to change the way we vote in 2011 but over half of the population didn't think it was an important enough issue. Of those that did turn up 68% voted to keep it as it is. We can't complain about the voting system everytime a party gets in just because we don't like them, especially as we all had a chance to change it. They were given two shit options. " So why don't all the Marxist / Leninist / Socialist / Workers Progressive Party Supporters all get together and make a change? You can all PM each other to get the ball rolling, then get other social media platforms involved. If what you say is true then you will be rocking with support within six months and marching on Buckingham Palace by Christmas. Or maybe, just maybe... The vast majority of people do not see two shit options and don't want any extremist alternative either. Just a thought. | |||
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"Arguably if the interests of those that voted were better represented the right wing would have even more influence now. The electoral system does need changing. In the 21st century we still fold pieces of paper and wait for hours as they're counted in sports halls. The greater concern is why so many feel their vote is worthless, and often they're correct. We need a proper debate with proper options. Not just what the turkeys are willing to offer. " We were all offered electoral reform in 2011. It was rejected something like 68% / 32%. As others have said, it is pointless revisiting this issue every time a government gets elected that one minority group or another objects to. Just think about this though. How many MP's would UKIP have now with PR? The House of Commons would be more Right Wing than at any time in history and by a bigger majority. | |||
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"Arguably if the interests of those that voted were better represented the right wing would have even more influence now. The electoral system does need changing. In the 21st century we still fold pieces of paper and wait for hours as they're counted in sports halls. The greater concern is why so many feel their vote is worthless, and often they're correct. We need a proper debate with proper options. Not just what the turkeys are willing to offer. " I tend to agree with the point that our voting system is somewhat outdated. I can't see why we can't vote online. But then again it is very easy to register for a postal vote. | |||
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"The minority don't have to put up with what the majority wants. The minority are also citizens of this country and not represented, politically, right now." They are most certainly represented, they just don't have majority representation. | |||
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"Arguably if the interests of those that voted were better represented the right wing would have even more influence now. The electoral system does need changing. In the 21st century we still fold pieces of paper and wait for hours as they're counted in sports halls. The greater concern is why so many feel their vote is worthless, and often they're correct. We need a proper debate with proper options. Not just what the turkeys are willing to offer. I tend to agree with the point that our voting system is somewhat outdated. I can't see why we can't vote online. But then again it is very easy to register for a postal vote. " The system, in the sense of the process, is indeed ludicrous for this day and age. It's expensive, inefficient and open to error, although it's also quite good fun and the actual theatre of the count, with all the candidates and their agents, is entertaining. Never underestimate people's capacity to cock things up though. The number of ballot papers I saw on Thursday night where people had put a cross in one box then scribbled it out and written something like "oops, I meant this one" ran into triple figures. There would have to be some kind of "are you sure you want to vote for X" message. And probably an "are you sure you're sure" too. | |||
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"37% of voted were for conservative, only 66% of the population actually cast their vote. So, a party gets power of 100% of the population when only 1 in 4 actually voted for them. This does not represent what people voted for. crystal " So maybe the lazy and the can't be bothered 34% who didn't bother to vote should be the target of your issues. | |||
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And I'm also someone who knows nobody who voted Tory- not a single person out of dozens....something stinks and it's coming from the direction of bullshit central  | |||
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"The minority don't have to put up with what the majority wants. The minority are also citizens of this country and not represented, politically, right now. They are most certainly represented, they just don't have majority representation. " Not by the system this government has in place they aren't, or else they wouldn't be protesting. | |||
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"The minority don't have to put up with what the majority wants. The minority are also citizens of this country and not represented, politically, right now. They are most certainly represented, they just don't have majority representation. " Agreed. Also, it is pretty much a sign of the times that people feel the need to throw their toys out of the pram because they can't get what they want. My parents and grand parents called that being spoiled. | |||
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"The minority don't have to put up with what the majority wants. The minority are also citizens of this country and not represented, politically, right now. They are most certainly represented, they just don't have majority representation. Not by the system this government has in place they aren't, or else they wouldn't be protesting." People would and will always find something to protest about. | |||
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"So your argument is that democracy only allows people to have a say every 5 years and it doesn't matter that power is taken by a minority vote (based on a campaign with more bullshit than a cattle field)? The Conservative party will only consider industrial action valid by trade unions if something like 40% vote for it, yet they're happy to base that power on much lower vote percentage- double standards as usual
And I'm also someone who knows nobody who voted Tory- not a single person out of dozens....something stinks and it's coming from the direction of bullshit central "You think just because you don't know anyone who voted Conservative that it's all bullshit? | |||
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"Why do people always 'pick on' the more wealthy. I genuinely believe everyone should pay the same percentage of tax... I will probably get slaughtered for that. A lot of 'rich' people work extremely hard for the money that they earn (as do less well off families) - why should they work very hard to have a lot of it taxed away? It doesn't make sense to me... "i have a similar _iew to you that all should pay the same amount of tax and i am to the left of center politicaly but if every body is paying the same tax say 10% as an example then EVERYBODY has to pay it on EVERYTHING they earn no tax breaks or speciel circumstances for this that and the other no writing off this to tax and that to tax EVERYTHING you earn is taxed at 10% rich or poor commoner or lord popstar or peasent that is fair system and would proberbly raise ahell of alot more money for the exchequre than we do know simplistic yes would it work ?????? | |||
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"People may not like it, but the Conservatives won the election fair and square and have a majority to govern the UK. I understand people may not be happy with the austerity measures, but at the end of the day this is what the majority of the British people voted for....and this is Democracy! I'm sick of seeing the extremist lot jumping on the anti austerity march in London, and acting in a threatening way towards the Police and the establishment. At least David Cameron, and Nick Clegg (when in office), had the balls to make a stand and make an attempt at getting the deficit down. For too long this country has bent over backwards and allowed people to abuse the benefits system. Its about time hard working people started getting rewarded for hard work, and I believe this is more likely to happen under the tories than any other party. So, stop your marching, put down your banners, and start bloody working!!
I've just stepped off my soap box now....
The majority actually voted for other parties "Exactly | |||
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"37% of voted were for conservative, only 66% of the population actually cast their vote. So, a party gets power of 100% of the population when only 1 in 4 actually voted for them. This does not represent what people voted for. crystal So maybe the lazy and the can't be bothered 34% who didn't bother to vote should be the target of your issues." I do personally believe voting should be compulsory (for those that have the capacity to vote) but I also believe that there should be an option for the voter to declare no confidence in any party up for election. Maybe if as Mr/Mrs Poll suggest the way in which we vote is made more up to date, it would be easier for people to vote. crystal | |||
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"Why do people always 'pick on' the more wealthy. I genuinely believe everyone should pay the same percentage of tax... I will probably get slaughtered for that. A lot of 'rich' people work extremely hard for the money that they earn (as do less well off families) - why should they work very hard to have a lot of it taxed away? It doesn't make sense to me... i have a similar _iew to you that all should pay the same amount of tax and i am to the left of center politicaly but if every body is paying the same tax say 10% as an example then EVERYBODY has to pay it on EVERYTHING they earn no tax breaks or speciel circumstances for this that and the other no writing off this to tax and that to tax EVERYTHING you earn is taxed at 10% rich or poor commoner or lord popstar or peasent that is fair system and would proberbly raise ahell of alot more money for the exchequre than we do know
simplistic yes would it work ?????? "It's called a flat rate of tax, and it would lose the Treasury too much money because currently the top 10% of earners pay about 60% of all income tax (not corporation tax or anything else, just pure income tax). | |||
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"The minority don't have to put up with what the majority wants. The minority are also citizens of this country and not represented, politically, right now. They are most certainly represented, they just don't have majority representation. Agreed. Also, it is pretty much a sign of the times that people feel the need to throw their toys out of the pram because they can't get what they want. My parents and grand parents called that being spoiled." I know your _iews as they are posted all over Fab, nor do I hold an opposite _iew to you, but REALLY, it does not help your point of of _iew to come across by basically calling those who don't agree with you as children or spoiled!  | |||
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"So your argument is that democracy only allows people to have a say every 5 years and it doesn't matter that power is taken by a minority vote (based on a campaign with more bullshit than a cattle field)? The Conservative party will only consider industrial action valid by trade unions if something like 40% vote for it, yet they're happy to base that power on much lower vote percentage- double standards as usual
And I'm also someone who knows nobody who voted Tory- not a single person out of dozens....something stinks and it's coming from the direction of bullshit central
You think just because you don't know anyone who voted Conservative that it's all bullshit? "I've got 40 odd people on FB, quite a mix of ages and location. I work with a lot of people and we've had quite a few chats this week with not a single admission of a Tory vote. I'd expect at least 1 or 2 | |||
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"The minority don't have to put up with what the majority wants. The minority are also citizens of this country and not represented, politically, right now. They are most certainly represented, they just don't have majority representation. Agreed. Also, it is pretty much a sign of the times that people feel the need to throw their toys out of the pram because they can't get what they want. My parents and grand parents called that being spoiled. I know your _iews as they are posted all over Fab, nor do I hold an opposite _iew to you, but REALLY, it does not help your point of of _iew to come across by basically calling those who don't agree with you as children or spoiled! " | |||
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"So your argument is that democracy only allows people to have a say every 5 years and it doesn't matter that power is taken by a minority vote (based on a campaign with more bullshit than a cattle field)? The Conservative party will only consider industrial action valid by trade unions if something like 40% vote for it, yet they're happy to base that power on much lower vote percentage- double standards as usual
And I'm also someone who knows nobody who voted Tory- not a single person out of dozens....something stinks and it's coming from the direction of bullshit central
You think just because you don't know anyone who voted Conservative that it's all bullshit?
I've got 40 odd people on FB, quite a mix of ages and location. I work with a lot of people and we've had quite a few chats this week with not a single admission of a Tory vote. I'd expect at least 1 or 2 "I only know 2 people who voted Conservative, and one of them was me. That doesn't make it some big conspiracy
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"We were never offered 'electoral reform' we were offered a particular change." It has to be presented as the choice between particular options though. You can't have a referendum on "let's shake up the system, innit" vs maintaining the status quo. | |||
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"Why do people always 'pick on' the more wealthy. I genuinely believe everyone should pay the same percentage of tax... I will probably get slaughtered for that. A lot of 'rich' people work extremely hard for the money that they earn (as do less well off families) - why should they work very hard to have a lot of it taxed away? It doesn't make sense to me... "I will be a higher rate tax payer in three years and quite happy to pay it because despite the fact I work hard, I also recognise that LUCK gave me good health, a supportive family and a decent brain in my head. Many others are not so lucky. IMO you can judge a society and individuals by how they treat the most vulnerable. | |||
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"We were never offered 'electoral reform' we were offered a particular change. It has to be presented as the choice between particular options though. You can't have a referendum on "let's shake up the system, innit" vs maintaining the status quo." You can have a proper debate, being as it's you know, important and stuff. | |||
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"We were never offered 'electoral reform' we were offered a particular change. It has to be presented as the choice between particular options though. You can't have a referendum on "let's shake up the system, innit" vs maintaining the status quo. You can have a proper debate, being as it's you know, important and stuff. " Yep, but where's the proper debate being put forward by proponents of electoral reform? Perhaps I've missed it, but all I've seen so far is Farage saying UKIP will lead the debate, and some people with extremely original and insightful signs saying things like 'Tory Scum'. | |||
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"People may not like it, but the Conservatives won the election fair and square and have a majority to govern the UK. I understand people may not be happy with the austerity measures, but at the end of the day this is what the majority of the British people voted for....and this is Democracy! I'm sick of seeing the extremist lot jumping on the anti austerity march in London, and acting in a threatening way towards the Police and the establishment. At least David Cameron, and Nick Clegg (when in office), had the balls to make a stand and make an attempt at getting the deficit down. For too long this country has bent over backwards and allowed people to abuse the benefits system. Its about time hard working people started getting rewarded for hard work, and I believe this is more likely to happen under the tories than any other party. So, stop your marching, put down your banners, and start bloody working!!
I've just stepped off my soap box now...."This notion that people generally abuse the benefits system boils my piss quite frankly. this is how it's become ok to decimate the lives of anyone with a disability or a terminal illness or anyone who is trying, but failing, to secure work. | |||
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"People may not like it, but the Conservatives won the election fair and square and have a majority to govern the UK. I understand people may not be happy with the austerity measures, but at the end of the day this is what the majority of the British people voted for....and this is Democracy! I'm sick of seeing the extremist lot jumping on the anti austerity march in London, and acting in a threatening way towards the Police and the establishment. At least David Cameron, and Nick Clegg (when in office), had the balls to make a stand and make an attempt at getting the deficit down. For too long this country has bent over backwards and allowed people to abuse the benefits system. Its about time hard working people started getting rewarded for hard work, and I believe this is more likely to happen under the tories than any other party. So, stop your marching, put down your banners, and start bloody working!!
I've just stepped off my soap box now....
This notion that people generally abuse the benefits system boils my piss quite frankly. this is how it's become ok to decimate the lives of anyone with a disability or a terminal illness or anyone who is trying, but failing, to secure work. "in all my years on the forums, I have never ever read someone state that people with a genuine illness, the terminally ill or with a disability was not a deserved case for benefits, the work shy and people having children with sole intention of increasing their benefits: YES, many threads. | |||
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"People may not like it, but the Conservatives won the election fair and square and have a majority to govern the UK. I understand people may not be happy with the austerity measures, but at the end of the day this is what the majority of the British people voted for....and this is Democracy! I'm sick of seeing the extremist lot jumping on the anti austerity march in London, and acting in a threatening way towards the Police and the establishment. At least David Cameron, and Nick Clegg (when in office), had the balls to make a stand and make an attempt at getting the deficit down. For too long this country has bent over backwards and allowed people to abuse the benefits system. Its about time hard working people started getting rewarded for hard work, and I believe this is more likely to happen under the tories than any other party. So, stop your marching, put down your banners, and start bloody working!!
I've just stepped off my soap box now....
This notion that people generally abuse the benefits system boils my piss quite frankly. this is how it's become ok to decimate the lives of anyone with a disability or a terminal illness or anyone who is trying, but failing, to secure work. " I like your other post as well.
I'd like to go to university, but can't afford to go now so stuck in a poorly paid job. Spent about 6 years studying for nothing, or until my circumstances improve again at least. | |||
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"The minority don't have to put up with what the majority wants. The minority are also citizens of this country and not represented, politically, right now. They are most certainly represented, they just don't have majority representation. Agreed. Also, it is pretty much a sign of the times that people feel the need to throw their toys out of the pram because they can't get what they want. My parents and grand parents called that being spoiled. I know your _iews as they are posted all over Fab, nor do I hold an opposite _iew to you, but REALLY, it does not help your point of of _iew to come across by basically calling those who don't agree with you as children or spoiled! "Being condescending always strengthens an argument | |||
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"I wonder how many taking part in the protests actually went and cast their vote. That would be a statistic I would be most interested to see." Wouldn't be surprised if they voted for greens tbh, if anyone. Most political activists tend to go for the most anarchic option, but they also participate in arranging things with those who have influence over doing anything, so wouldn't need to vote if they didn't want to as they see it as their right to be active in making changes happen - rather than vote for someone else to do those changes for them. | |||
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"The minority don't have to put up with what the majority wants. The minority are also citizens of this country and not represented, politically, right now. They are most certainly represented, they just don't have majority representation. Agreed. Also, it is pretty much a sign of the times that people feel the need to throw their toys out of the pram because they can't get what they want. My parents and grand parents called that being spoiled. I know your _iews as they are posted all over Fab, nor do I hold an opposite _iew to you, but REALLY, it does not help your point of of _iew to come across by basically calling those who don't agree with you as children or spoiled!
"So people who throw their toys out of the pram because they don't get what they want are not spoiled? | |||
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"More people voted for UKIP than those who voted for SNP & Lib Dems combined!,yet SNP get 56 seats and UKIP just the 1. " Exactly, and as much as I hate UKIP's policies they deserve a bigger representation in Patliament | |||
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"The minority don't have to put up with what the majority wants. The minority are also citizens of this country and not represented, politically, right now. They are most certainly represented, they just don't have majority representation. Agreed. Also, it is pretty much a sign of the times that people feel the need to throw their toys out of the pram because they can't get what they want. My parents and grand parents called that being spoiled. I know your _iews as they are posted all over Fab, nor do I hold an opposite _iew to you, but REALLY, it does not help your point of of _iew to come across by basically calling those who don't agree with you as children or spoiled!
So people who throw their toys out of the pram because they don't get what they want are not spoiled?"Calling them spoiled or children demeans them and does not help your post in anyway was my point. | |||
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"Why do people always 'pick on' the more wealthy. I genuinely believe everyone should pay the same percentage of tax... I will probably get slaughtered for that. A lot of 'rich' people work extremely hard for the money that they earn (as do less well off families) - why should they work very hard to have a lot of it taxed away? It doesn't make sense to me... ". My thoughts exactly . There should be a flat rate of taxation for everyone if we want a more just society . The top one percent of earners in this country paid more than their fair share of tax. S | |||
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"The minority don't have to put up with what the majority wants. The minority are also citizens of this country and not represented, politically, right now. They are most certainly represented, they just don't have majority representation. Agreed. Also, it is pretty much a sign of the times that people feel the need to throw their toys out of the pram because they can't get what they want. My parents and grand parents called that being spoiled. I know your _iews as they are posted all over Fab, nor do I hold an opposite _iew to you, but REALLY, it does not help your point of of _iew to come across by basically calling those who don't agree with you as children or spoiled!
So people who throw their toys out of the pram because they don't get what they want are not spoiled?
Calling them spoiled or children demeans them and does not help your post in anyway was my point. "Ok... We are talking specifically here about the people protesting outside Downing Street yesterday. The ones who defaced the war memorial. They had a choice to vote in the referendum in 2011. Whether they voted or not, it is the normal and lawful thing to do in this country to accept the results of a referendum. They had a choice to vote on Thursday. An election that was held in accordance with the wishes of the referendum four years ago. Irrespective of whether they voted or not, the election took place and a government was formed. The vast majority of people in this country accept what happened and will live with it for five years whilst monitoring how it performs. One small group of people did not like the democratic process and got angry and agitated and took it upon themselves to attack the Police, deface a war memorial and generally act like spoiled children. There are far worse and probably more appropriate descriptions than spoiled children that could have been used. And yes, I think they need to grow up and become respected and respectful members of society rather than fighting the Police and defacing memorials because democracy did not give them the answer that they wanted. | |||
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" I like your other post as well.
I'd like to go to university, but can't afford to go now so stuck in a poorly paid job. Spent about 6 years studying for nothing, or until my circumstances improve again at least."So many people in that position sadly. It's incredibly ignorant for people to assume if you work hard you'll suddenly be propelled into prosperity. It doesn't work like that in many jobs. It's becoming so much easier for employers to exploit staff too, as they know when people have limited options. It suits the Tory agenda to have a compliant and disadvantaged workforce. Labour policies sought to close the equality gap. Tory policies actually make it harder for people to get themselves in a better place - course fees are too high, childcare and housing issues impede career prospects, employers can pay below living wage etc People marching are angry and with good reason. | |||
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"The minority don't have to put up with what the majority wants. The minority are also citizens of this country and not represented, politically, right now. They are most certainly represented, they just don't have majority representation. Agreed. Also, it is pretty much a sign of the times that people feel the need to throw their toys out of the pram because they can't get what they want. My parents and grand parents called that being spoiled. I know your _iews as they are posted all over Fab, nor do I hold an opposite _iew to you, but REALLY, it does not help your point of of _iew to come across by basically calling those who don't agree with you as children or spoiled!
So people who throw their toys out of the pram because they don't get what they want are not spoiled?
Calling them spoiled or children demeans them and does not help your post in anyway was my point.
Ok...
We are talking specifically here about the people protesting outside Downing Street yesterday. The ones who defaced the war memorial.
They had a choice to vote in the referendum in 2011. Whether they voted or not, it is the normal and lawful thing to do in this country to accept the results of a referendum.
They had a choice to vote on Thursday. An election that was held in accordance with the wishes of the referendum four years ago. Irrespective of whether they voted or not, the election took place and a government was formed. The vast majority of people in this country accept what happened and will live with it for five years whilst monitoring how it performs.
One small group of people did not like the democratic process and got angry and agitated and took it upon themselves to attack the Police, deface a war memorial and generally act like spoiled children. There are far worse and probably more appropriate descriptions than spoiled children that could have been used. And yes, I think they need to grow up and become respected and respectful members of society rather than fighting the Police and defacing memorials because democracy did not give them the answer that they wanted."I made no comment upon their behaviour, simply your comment about toys out of prams etc., Are you standing for election? You do seem to avoid points and give somewhat long winded defences to your own points. Frequently. | |||
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"We were never offered 'electoral reform' we were offered a particular change. It has to be presented as the choice between particular options though. You can't have a referendum on "let's shake up the system, innit" vs maintaining the status quo. You can have a proper debate, being as it's you know, important and stuff. Yep, but where's the proper debate being put forward by proponents of electoral reform? Perhaps I've missed it, but all I've seen so far is Farage saying UKIP will lead the debate, and some people with extremely original and insightful signs saying things like 'Tory Scum'. " UKIP are a good example. When even a well resourced party with lots of media and plenty of popular support only gains one representative - how can it be possible for proponents of electoral change to have a proper argument? | |||
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" I like your other post as well.
I'd like to go to university, but can't afford to go now so stuck in a poorly paid job. Spent about 6 years studying for nothing, or until my circumstances improve again at least.
So many people in that position sadly. It's incredibly ignorant for people to assume if you work hard you'll suddenly be propelled into prosperity. It doesn't work like that in many jobs. It's becoming so much easier for employers to exploit staff too, as they know when people have limited options. It suits the Tory agenda to have a compliant and disadvantaged workforce.
Labour policies sought to close the equality gap. Tory policies actually make it harder for people to get themselves in a better place - course fees are too high, childcare and housing issues impede career prospects, employers can pay below living wage etc
People marching are angry and with good reason. "Which of Labour's policies implemented between 1997 and 2010 sought to close the equality gap? | |||
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"The minority don't have to put up with what the majority wants. The minority are also citizens of this country and not represented, politically, right now. They are most certainly represented, they just don't have majority representation. Agreed. Also, it is pretty much a sign of the times that people feel the need to throw their toys out of the pram because they can't get what they want. My parents and grand parents called that being spoiled. I know your _iews as they are posted all over Fab, nor do I hold an opposite _iew to you, but REALLY, it does not help your point of of _iew to come across by basically calling those who don't agree with you as children or spoiled!
So people who throw their toys out of the pram because they don't get what they want are not spoiled?
Calling them spoiled or children demeans them and does not help your post in anyway was my point.
Ok...
We are talking specifically here about the people protesting outside Downing Street yesterday. The ones who defaced the war memorial.
They had a choice to vote in the referendum in 2011. Whether they voted or not, it is the normal and lawful thing to do in this country to accept the results of a referendum.
They had a choice to vote on Thursday. An election that was held in accordance with the wishes of the referendum four years ago. Irrespective of whether they voted or not, the election took place and a government was formed. The vast majority of people in this country accept what happened and will live with it for five years whilst monitoring how it performs.
One small group of people did not like the democratic process and got angry and agitated and took it upon themselves to attack the Police, deface a war memorial and generally act like spoiled children. There are far worse and probably more appropriate descriptions than spoiled children that could have been used. And yes, I think they need to grow up and become respected and respectful members of society rather than fighting the Police and defacing memorials because democracy did not give them the answer that they wanted."Who would they have voted for?! The point is some people do feel they have no voice and no representation. Repeatedly referring to a choice that would have led to the same outcome isn't much of a choice. | |||
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"The minority don't have to put up with what the majority wants. The minority are also citizens of this country and not represented, politically, right now. They are most certainly represented, they just don't have majority representation. Agreed. Also, it is pretty much a sign of the times that people feel the need to throw their toys out of the pram because they can't get what they want. My parents and grand parents called that being spoiled. I know your _iews as they are posted all over Fab, nor do I hold an opposite _iew to you, but REALLY, it does not help your point of of _iew to come across by basically calling those who don't agree with you as children or spoiled!
So people who throw their toys out of the pram because they don't get what they want are not spoiled?
Calling them spoiled or children demeans them and does not help your post in anyway was my point.
Ok...
We are talking specifically here about the people protesting outside Downing Street yesterday. The ones who defaced the war memorial.
They had a choice to vote in the referendum in 2011. Whether they voted or not, it is the normal and lawful thing to do in this country to accept the results of a referendum.
They had a choice to vote on Thursday. An election that was held in accordance with the wishes of the referendum four years ago. Irrespective of whether they voted or not, the election took place and a government was formed. The vast majority of people in this country accept what happened and will live with it for five years whilst monitoring how it performs.
One small group of people did not like the democratic process and got angry and agitated and took it upon themselves to attack the Police, deface a war memorial and generally act like spoiled children. There are far worse and probably more appropriate descriptions than spoiled children that could have been used. And yes, I think they need to grow up and become respected and respectful members of society rather than fighting the Police and defacing memorials because democracy did not give them the answer that they wanted.
I made no comment upon their behaviour, simply your comment about toys out of prams etc.,
Are you standing for election?
You do seem to avoid points and give somewhat long winded defences to your own points.
Frequently. "If I knew what points you wanted answering, I would. I am far from being afraid of airing my _iews. | |||
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" I like your other post as well.
I'd like to go to university, but can't afford to go now so stuck in a poorly paid job. Spent about 6 years studying for nothing, or until my circumstances improve again at least.
So many people in that position sadly. It's incredibly ignorant for people to assume if you work hard you'll suddenly be propelled into prosperity. It doesn't work like that in many jobs. It's becoming so much easier for employers to exploit staff too, as they know when people have limited options. It suits the Tory agenda to have a compliant and disadvantaged workforce.
Labour policies sought to close the equality gap. Tory policies actually make it harder for people to get themselves in a better place - course fees are too high, childcare and housing issues impede career prospects, employers can pay below living wage etc
People marching are angry and with good reason.
Which of Labour's policies implemented between 1997 and 2010 sought to close the equality gap?"To clarify: because under Labour in those years, tuition fees were introduced, the biggest housing boom ever seen happened, childcare costs spiralled, zero hours contracts existed and there wasn't a living wage paid then either. | |||
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"People may not like it, but the Conservatives won the election fair and square and have a majority to govern the UK. I understand people may not be happy with the austerity measures, but at the end of the day this is what the majority of the British people voted for....and this is Democracy! I'm sick of seeing the extremist lot jumping on the anti austerity march in London, and acting in a threatening way towards the Police and the establishment. At least David Cameron, and Nick Clegg (when in office), had the balls to make a stand and make an attempt at getting the deficit down. For too long this country has bent over backwards and allowed people to abuse the benefits system. Its about time hard working people started getting rewarded for hard work, and I believe this is more likely to happen under the tories than any other party. So, stop your marching, put down your banners, and start bloody working!!
I've just stepped off my soap box now....
This notion that people generally abuse the benefits system boils my piss quite frankly. this is how it's become ok to decimate the lives of anyone with a disability or a terminal illness or anyone who is trying, but failing, to secure work.
in all my years on the forums, I have never ever read someone state that people with a genuine illness, the terminally ill or with a disability was not a deserved case for benefits, the work shy and people having children with sole intention of increasing their benefits: YES, many threads."And yet many will have voted for a Tory party which has presided over a campaign of destruction relating to those in the aforementioned disadvantaged groups. | |||
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"People may not like it, but the Conservatives won the election fair and square and have a majority to govern the UK. I understand people may not be happy with the austerity measures, but at the end of the day this is what the majority of the British people voted for....and this is Democracy! I'm sick of seeing the extremist lot jumping on the anti austerity march in London, and acting in a threatening way towards the Police and the establishment. At least David Cameron, and Nick Clegg (when in office), had the balls to make a stand and make an attempt at getting the deficit down. For too long this country has bent over backwards and allowed people to abuse the benefits system. Its about time hard working people started getting rewarded for hard work, and I believe this is more likely to happen under the tories than any other party. So, stop your marching, put down your banners, and start bloody working!!
I've just stepped off my soap box now....
This notion that people generally abuse the benefits system boils my piss quite frankly. this is how it's become ok to decimate the lives of anyone with a disability or a terminal illness or anyone who is trying, but failing, to secure work.
in all my years on the forums, I have never ever read someone state that people with a genuine illness, the terminally ill or with a disability was not a deserved case for benefits, the work shy and people having children with sole intention of increasing their benefits: YES, many threads.
And yet many will have voted for a Tory party which has presided over a campaign of destruction relating to those in the aforementioned disadvantaged groups. "I did | |||
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"The minority don't have to put up with what the majority wants. The minority are also citizens of this country and not represented, politically, right now. They are most certainly represented, they just don't have majority representation. Agreed. Also, it is pretty much a sign of the times that people feel the need to throw their toys out of the pram because they can't get what they want. My parents and grand parents called that being spoiled. I know your _iews as they are posted all over Fab, nor do I hold an opposite _iew to you, but REALLY, it does not help your point of of _iew to come across by basically calling those who don't agree with you as children or spoiled!
So people who throw their toys out of the pram because they don't get what they want are not spoiled?
Calling them spoiled or children demeans them and does not help your post in anyway was my point.
Ok...
We are talking specifically here about the people protesting outside Downing Street yesterday. The ones who defaced the war memorial.
They had a choice to vote in the referendum in 2011. Whether they voted or not, it is the normal and lawful thing to do in this country to accept the results of a referendum.
They had a choice to vote on Thursday. An election that was held in accordance with the wishes of the referendum four years ago. Irrespective of whether they voted or not, the election took place and a government was formed. The vast majority of people in this country accept what happened and will live with it for five years whilst monitoring how it performs.
One small group of people did not like the democratic process and got angry and agitated and took it upon themselves to attack the Police, deface a war memorial and generally act like spoiled children. There are far worse and probably more appropriate descriptions than spoiled children that could have been used. And yes, I think they need to grow up and become respected and respectful members of society rather than fighting the Police and defacing memorials because democracy did not give them the answer that they wanted.
Who would they have voted for?!
The point is some people do feel they have no voice and no representation. Repeatedly referring to a choice that would have led to the same outcome isn't much of a choice.
"They could have voted Green, they could have voted independent, they could have voted TUSC. They could have had a say. However, it is disrespectful and CHILDISH to then virtually riot the next day because they did not get what they wanted.
This country has changed its voting map many times through history and it surely will again in the future.vscotland was once. Bastion of Conservatism, the UK was once very, very Liberal. The point being is that we are not a nation of extremes. If change is going to happen it will. But with a scone and a cup of tea rather than with a petrol bomb and a brick. | |||
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"For those saying they know noone who voted conservative, perhaps that is down to the friends and colleagues you surround yourself with I am in the opposite boat of not knowing anyone who voted Labour, the vast majority of my friends and colleagues did indeed vote Conservative. " Same here | |||
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"The minority don't have to put up with what the majority wants. The minority are also citizens of this country and not represented, politically, right now. They are most certainly represented, they just don't have majority representation. Agreed. Also, it is pretty much a sign of the times that people feel the need to throw their toys out of the pram because they can't get what they want. My parents and grand parents called that being spoiled. I know your _iews as they are posted all over Fab, nor do I hold an opposite _iew to you, but REALLY, it does not help your point of of _iew to come across by basically calling those who don't agree with you as children or spoiled!
So people who throw their toys out of the pram because they don't get what they want are not spoiled?
Calling them spoiled or children demeans them and does not help your post in anyway was my point.
Ok...
We are talking specifically here about the people protesting outside Downing Street yesterday. The ones who defaced the war memorial.
They had a choice to vote in the referendum in 2011. Whether they voted or not, it is the normal and lawful thing to do in this country to accept the results of a referendum.
They had a choice to vote on Thursday. An election that was held in accordance with the wishes of the referendum four years ago. Irrespective of whether they voted or not, the election took place and a government was formed. The vast majority of people in this country accept what happened and will live with it for five years whilst monitoring how it performs.
One small group of people did not like the democratic process and got angry and agitated and took it upon themselves to attack the Police, deface a war memorial and generally act like spoiled children. There are far worse and probably more appropriate descriptions than spoiled children that could have been used. And yes, I think they need to grow up and become respected and respectful members of society rather than fighting the Police and defacing memorials because democracy did not give them the answer that they wanted.
Who would they have voted for?!
The point is some people do feel they have no voice and no representation. Repeatedly referring to a choice that would have led to the same outcome isn't much of a choice.
They could have voted Green, they could have voted independent, they could have voted TUSC. They could have had a say.
However, it is disrespectful and CHILDISH to then virtually riot the next day because they did not get what they wanted.
This country has changed its voting map many times through history and it surely will again in the future.vscotland was once. Bastion of Conservatism, the UK was once very, very Liberal. The point being is that we are not a nation of extremes. If change is going to happen it will. But with a scone and a cup of tea rather than with a petrol bomb and a brick."Hmmm I wonder how they'd have felt had they voted Green, TUSC or even UKIP? Possibly like it was a complete waste of time?! And you're wrong about a scone and a cup of tea. In truth it's violence that's got the results historically. | |||
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" I like your other post as well.
I'd like to go to university, but can't afford to go now so stuck in a poorly paid job. Spent about 6 years studying for nothing, or until my circumstances improve again at least.
So many people in that position sadly. It's incredibly ignorant for people to assume if you work hard you'll suddenly be propelled into prosperity. It doesn't work like that in many jobs. It's becoming so much easier for employers to exploit staff too, as they know when people have limited options. It suits the Tory agenda to have a compliant and disadvantaged workforce.
Labour policies sought to close the equality gap. Tory policies actually make it harder for people to get themselves in a better place - course fees are too high, childcare and housing issues impede career prospects, employers can pay below living wage etc
People marching are angry and with good reason.
Which of Labour's policies implemented between 1997 and 2010 sought to close the equality gap?
To clarify: because under Labour in those years, tuition fees were introduced, the biggest housing boom ever seen happened, childcare costs spiralled, zero hours contracts existed and there wasn't a living wage paid then either."Pretty sure labour can't control the housing market. Widening participation, tax credits, introduction of minimum wage. Reduced child and elderly poverty, reduced health inequalities by targeting funding at disadvanted areas. | |||
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"People may not like it, but the Conservatives won the election fair and square and have a majority to govern the UK. I understand people may not be happy with the austerity measures, but at the end of the day this is what the majority of the British people voted for....and this is Democracy! I'm sick of seeing the extremist lot jumping on the anti austerity march in London, and acting in a threatening way towards the Police and the establishment. At least David Cameron, and Nick Clegg (when in office), had the balls to make a stand and make an attempt at getting the deficit down. For too long this country has bent over backwards and allowed people to abuse the benefits system. Its about time hard working people started getting rewarded for hard work, and I believe this is more likely to happen under the tories than any other party. So, stop your marching, put down your banners, and start bloody working!!
I've just stepped off my soap box now....
Completely agree well said, we are just getting back on our feet in this country, long may it continue "I wonder how many say they don't have a say and are unhappy about this lot being in Government, but at the end of the day, they didn't bother voting, I have heard a few say they don't know if this is going to be a good thing or not that the Conservatives got in, but they didn't vote as they thought why bother, Hmmm perhaps if they had voted things may have been different. | |||
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"People may not like it, but the Conservatives won the election fair and square and have a majority to govern the UK. I understand people may not be happy with the austerity measures, but at the end of the day this is what the majority of the British people voted for....and this is Democracy! I'm sick of seeing the extremist lot jumping on the anti austerity march in London, and acting in a threatening way towards the Police and the establishment. At least David Cameron, and Nick Clegg (when in office), had the balls to make a stand and make an attempt at getting the deficit down. For too long this country has bent over backwards and allowed people to abuse the benefits system. Its about time hard working people started getting rewarded for hard work, and I believe this is more likely to happen under the tories than any other party. So, stop your marching, put down your banners, and start bloody working!!
I've just stepped off my soap box now...."Here here, yes the spending restrictions are tough but it only cos people got soft and used to the large sums of money. We need to cut outgoings in areas we can or it would be tax rises across the board. | |||
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"The minority don't have to put up with what the majority wants. The minority are also citizens of this country and not represented, politically, right now. They are most certainly represented, they just don't have majority representation. Agreed. Also, it is pretty much a sign of the times that people feel the need to throw their toys out of the pram because they can't get what they want. My parents and grand parents called that being spoiled. I know your _iews as they are posted all over Fab, nor do I hold an opposite _iew to you, but REALLY, it does not help your point of of _iew to come across by basically calling those who don't agree with you as children or spoiled!
So people who throw their toys out of the pram because they don't get what they want are not spoiled?
Calling them spoiled or children demeans them and does not help your post in anyway was my point.
Ok...
We are talking specifically here about the people protesting outside Downing Street yesterday. The ones who defaced the war memorial.
They had a choice to vote in the referendum in 2011. Whether they voted or not, it is the normal and lawful thing to do in this country to accept the results of a referendum.
They had a choice to vote on Thursday. An election that was held in accordance with the wishes of the referendum four years ago. Irrespective of whether they voted or not, the election took place and a government was formed. The vast majority of people in this country accept what happened and will live with it for five years whilst monitoring how it performs.
One small group of people did not like the democratic process and got angry and agitated and took it upon themselves to attack the Police, deface a war memorial and generally act like spoiled children. There are far worse and probably more appropriate descriptions than spoiled children that could have been used. And yes, I think they need to grow up and become respected and respectful members of society rather than fighting the Police and defacing memorials because democracy did not give them the answer that they wanted.
Who would they have voted for?!
The point is some people do feel they have no voice and no representation. Repeatedly referring to a choice that would have led to the same outcome isn't much of a choice.
They could have voted Green, they could have voted independent, they could have voted TUSC. They could have had a say.
However, it is disrespectful and CHILDISH to then virtually riot the next day because they did not get what they wanted.
This country has changed its voting map many times through history and it surely will again in the future.vscotland was once. Bastion of Conservatism, the UK was once very, very Liberal. The point being is that we are not a nation of extremes. If change is going to happen it will. But with a scone and a cup of tea rather than with a petrol bomb and a brick.
Hmmm I wonder how they'd have felt had they voted Green, TUSC or even UKIP? Possibly like it was a complete waste of time?!
And you're wrong about a scone and a cup of tea. In truth it's violence that's got the results historically.
"But they, we and all of us live in a democracy. We can't always jump up and down crying and throwing stones when democracy doesn't give us the answer that we want. I respect the decisions made in this country in referendums and elections. It is the very fundamentals of how a civilised society works. How would it be for example if these people decided that neither elections, nor the law applied to them and so they would feel the right to break into our homes and steal from us? A society can't survive if minorities are allowed to set an agenda that the majority has no interest in following. It is a democracy because we allow people to vote in referendums and elections. We allow political parties to be created and we allow people to join them and stand to be elected. It truly is a wonderful system because every now and again we get the opportunity to decide if we like the voting system we have or if we want something different. No anarchy for the UK thank you very much. | |||
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"I can't scroll down these massive long quotes anymore. My thumb hurts "I agree. I tend to cut them down when on my laptop but it is much harder to do on a tablet. | |||
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"The minority don't have to put up with what the majority wants. The minority are also citizens of this country and not represented, politically, right now. They are most certainly represented, they just don't have majority representation. Agreed. Also, it is pretty much a sign of the times that people feel the need to throw their toys out of the pram because they can't get what they want. My parents and grand parents called that being spoiled. I know your _iews as they are posted all over Fab, nor do I hold an opposite _iew to you, but REALLY, it does not help your point of of _iew to come across by basically calling those who don't agree with you as children or spoiled!
So people who throw their toys out of the pram because they don't get what they want are not spoiled?
Calling them spoiled or children demeans them and does not help your post in anyway was my point.
Ok...
We are talking specifically here about the people protesting outside Downing Street yesterday. The ones who defaced the war memorial.
They had a choice to vote in the referendum in 2011. Whether they voted or not, it is the normal and lawful thing to do in this country to accept the results of a referendum.
They had a choice to vote on Thursday. An election that was held in accordance with the wishes of the referendum four years ago. Irrespective of whether they voted or not, the election took place and a government was formed. The vast majority of people in this country accept what happened and will live with it for five years whilst monitoring how it performs.
One small group of people did not like the democratic process and got angry and agitated and took it upon themselves to attack the Police, deface a war memorial and generally act like spoiled children. There are far worse and probably more appropriate descriptions than spoiled children that could have been used. And yes, I think they need to grow up and become respected and respectful members of society rather than fighting the Police and defacing memorials because democracy did not give them the answer that they wanted.
I made no comment upon their behaviour, simply your comment about toys out of prams etc.,
Are you standing for election?
You do seem to avoid points and give somewhat long winded defences to your own points.
Frequently.
If I knew what points you wanted answering, I would. I am far from being afraid of airing my _iews."Just the one point I made initially. I have respect for some of your points but patronising and demeaning others by calling them children by "throwing their toys out of the pram" or "being spoiled" demeans them and by definition you and therfeore helps no-one. i.e., "MARGARET" ...3 second delay ..."YES" ...raised eyebrows .. 2 second delay.. "I have lady here who wants a comic to patronise voters who don't agree with her point of _iew, do we have one"? "Have you tried the shelf for people who throw toys out of the pram?" "No dear is that the democratic shelf?" Get my drift? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"The minority don't have to put up with what the majority wants. The minority are also citizens of this country and not represented, politically, right now. They are most certainly represented, they just don't have majority representation. Agreed. Also, it is pretty much a sign of the times that people feel the need to throw their toys out of the pram because they can't get what they want. My parents and grand parents called that being spoiled. I know your _iews as they are posted all over Fab, nor do I hold an opposite _iew to you, but REALLY, it does not help your point of of _iew to come across by basically calling those who don't agree with you as children or spoiled!
So people who throw their toys out of the pram because they don't get what they want are not spoiled?
Calling them spoiled or children demeans them and does not help your post in anyway was my point.
Ok...
We are talking specifically here about the people protesting outside Downing Street yesterday. The ones who defaced the war memorial.
They had a choice to vote in the referendum in 2011. Whether they voted or not, it is the normal and lawful thing to do in this country to accept the results of a referendum.
They had a choice to vote on Thursday. An election that was held in accordance with the wishes of the referendum four years ago. Irrespective of whether they voted or not, the election took place and a government was formed. The vast majority of people in this country accept what happened and will live with it for five years whilst monitoring how it performs.
One small group of people did not like the democratic process and got angry and agitated and took it upon themselves to attack the Police, deface a war memorial and generally act like spoiled children. There are far worse and probably more appropriate descriptions than spoiled children that could have been used. And yes, I think they need to grow up and become respected and respectful members of society rather than fighting the Police and defacing memorials because democracy did not give them the answer that they wanted.
I made no comment upon their behaviour, simply your comment about toys out of prams etc.,
Are you standing for election?
You do seem to avoid points and give somewhat long winded defences to your own points.
Frequently.
If I knew what points you wanted answering, I would. I am far from being afraid of airing my _iews.
Just the one point I made initially.
I have respect for some of your points but patronising and demeaning others by calling them children by "throwing their toys out of the pram" or "being spoiled" demeans them and by definition you and therfeore helps no-one.
i.e.,
"MARGARET"
...3 second delay
..."YES"
...raised eyebrows
.. 2 second delay..
"I have lady here who wants a comic to patronise voters who don't agree with her point of _iew, do we have one"?
"Have you tried the shelf for people who throw toys out of the pram?"
"No dear is that the democratic shelf?"
Get my drift?"No. Childish people who disrespect the democratic voice of the people of this country by rioting and defacing war memorials are beneath contempt. | |||
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| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
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"Childish people who disrespect the democratic voice of the people of this country by rioting and defacing war memorials are beneath contempt. " 1 memorial, singular. 0 riots. | |||
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"The minority don't have to put up with what the majority wants. The minority are also citizens of this country and not represented, politically, right now. They are most certainly represented, they just don't have majority representation. Agreed. Also, it is pretty much a sign of the times that people feel the need to throw their toys out of the pram because they can't get what they want. My parents and grand parents called that being spoiled. I know your _iews as they are posted all over Fab, nor do I hold an opposite _iew to you, but REALLY, it does not help your point of of _iew to come across by basically calling those who don't agree with you as children or spoiled!
So people who throw their toys out of the pram because they don't get what they want are not spoiled?
Calling them spoiled or children demeans them and does not help your post in anyway was my point.
Ok...
We are talking specifically here about the people protesting outside Downing Street yesterday. The ones who defaced the war memorial.
They had a choice to vote in the referendum in 2011. Whether they voted or not, it is the normal and lawful thing to do in this country to accept the results of a referendum.
They had a choice to vote on Thursday. An election that was held in accordance with the wishes of the referendum four years ago. Irrespective of whether they voted or not, the election took place and a government was formed. The vast majority of people in this country accept what happened and will live with it for five years whilst monitoring how it performs.
One small group of people did not like the democratic process and got angry and agitated and took it upon themselves to attack the Police, deface a war memorial and generally act like spoiled children. There are far worse and probably more appropriate descriptions than spoiled children that could have been used. And yes, I think they need to grow up and become respected and respectful members of society rather than fighting the Police and defacing memorials because democracy did not give them the answer that they wanted.
I made no comment upon their behaviour, simply your comment about toys out of prams etc.,
Are you standing for election?
You do seem to avoid points and give somewhat long winded defences to your own points.
Frequently.
If I knew what points you wanted answering, I would. I am far from being afraid of airing my _iews.
Just the one point I made initially.
I have respect for some of your points but patronising and demeaning others by calling them children by "throwing their toys out of the pram" or "being spoiled" demeans them and by definition you and therfeore helps no-one.
i.e.,
"MARGARET"
...3 second delay
..."YES"
...raised eyebrows
.. 2 second delay..
"I have lady here who wants a comic to patronise voters who don't agree with her point of _iew, do we have one"?
"Have you tried the shelf for people who throw toys out of the pram?"
"No dear is that the democratic shelf?"
Get my drift?
No.
Childish people who disrespect the democratic voice of the people of this country by rioting and defacing war memorials are beneath contempt.
"I thought they had a march, some were out of order, some of whom were arrested and some defaced a memorial, not then were all beneath comtempt because they had the temerity to protest.! Those arrested will be charged and go through the system, but how many of those who protested were beneath contempt in your opinion? | |||
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" My salary has actually decreased over the past 10 years!???! How is that right?! And I'm a degree professional. And I'm not the only one... " Degree's don't guarantee any pay rises or amount of pay. My pay has gone up over the past ten years, considerably. However I've got up off my ass, moved career several times and done two years of my undergraduate. | |||
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"The minority don't have to put up with what the majority wants. The minority are also citizens of this country and not represented, politically, right now. They are most certainly represented, they just don't have majority representation. Agreed. Also, it is pretty much a sign of the times that people feel the need to throw their toys out of the pram because they can't get what they want. My parents and grand parents called that being spoiled. I know your _iews as they are posted all over Fab, nor do I hold an opposite _iew to you, but REALLY, it does not help your point of of _iew to come across by basically calling those who don't agree with you as children or spoiled!
So people who throw their toys out of the pram because they don't get what they want are not spoiled?
Calling them spoiled or children demeans them and does not help your post in anyway was my point.
Ok...
We are talking specifically here about the people protesting outside Downing Street yesterday. The ones who defaced the war memorial.
They had a choice to vote in the referendum in 2011. Whether they voted or not, it is the normal and lawful thing to do in this country to accept the results of a referendum.
They had a choice to vote on Thursday. An election that was held in accordance with the wishes of the referendum four years ago. Irrespective of whether they voted or not, the election took place and a government was formed. The vast majority of people in this country accept what happened and will live with it for five years whilst monitoring how it performs.
One small group of people did not like the democratic process and got angry and agitated and took it upon themselves to attack the Police, deface a war memorial and generally act like spoiled children. There are far worse and probably more appropriate descriptions than spoiled children that could have been used. And yes, I think they need to grow up and become respected and respectful members of society rather than fighting the Police and defacing memorials because democracy did not give them the answer that they wanted.
Who would they have voted for?!
The point is some people do feel they have no voice and no representation. Repeatedly referring to a choice that would have led to the same outcome isn't much of a choice.
They could have voted Green, they could have voted independent, they could have voted TUSC. They could have had a say.
However, it is disrespectful and CHILDISH to then virtually riot the next day because they did not get what they wanted.
This country has changed its voting map many times through history and it surely will again in the future.vscotland was once. Bastion of Conservatism, the UK was once very, very Liberal. The point being is that we are not a nation of extremes. If change is going to happen it will. But with a scone and a cup of tea rather than with a petrol bomb and a brick."How do you know they didn't vote? Sometimes change has to be made to happen. Two thirds of voters got a government they don't want. One that has caused untold suffering to thousands of them over the past 5 years. Of course many are disgruntled. With the existence of safe seats, and with many feeling there are no good options and that the state of politics in this country is that it is corrupt and there to benefit the few, of course people are angry. Still, last time nobody got the government they voted for so some would say this is an improvement. Personally, with so many feeling that they have no good option and that their voice is not heard, I'm not surprised there is trouble. I expect a lot more yet. If people vote and still feel unrepresented and unheard, it's only to be expected that they complain. There is no excuse for damaging war memorials but that was a minority. It's being used as a propaganda tool to discredit the entire protest. As for idiotic claims such as "at the end of the day this is what the majority of the British people voted for", some people need to educate themselves about the facts and ensure they understand them before spouting off about what "the British people want". As a further note, because people supported keeping FPTP over AV means they wanted FPTP more than AV, not that they actually want FPTP. AV is not proportional representation. The voting public have not been given the option to choose PR which is an undoubtedly fairer system than we have now. I suspect the decision to offer us the choice of FPTP or AV but not PR was absolutely intentional and done with the aim of keeping FPTP. If we'd been offered PR, the results could have been very, very different. | |||
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| Reply privately |
"The minority don't have to put up with what the majority wants. The minority are also citizens of this country and not represented, politically, right now. They are most certainly represented, they just don't have majority representation. Agreed. Also, it is pretty much a sign of the times that people feel the need to throw their toys out of the pram because they can't get what they want. My parents and grand parents called that being spoiled. I know your _iews as they are posted all over Fab, nor do I hold an opposite _iew to you, but REALLY, it does not help your point of of _iew to come across by basically calling those who don't agree with you as children or spoiled!
So people who throw their toys out of the pram because they don't get what they want are not spoiled?
Calling them spoiled or children demeans them and does not help your post in anyway was my point.
Ok...
We are talking specifically here about the people protesting outside Downing Street yesterday. The ones who defaced the war memorial.
They had a choice to vote in the referendum in 2011. Whether they voted or not, it is the normal and lawful thing to do in this country to accept the results of a referendum.
They had a choice to vote on Thursday. An election that was held in accordance with the wishes of the referendum four years ago. Irrespective of whether they voted or not, the election took place and a government was formed. The vast majority of people in this country accept what happened and will live with it for five years whilst monitoring how it performs.
One small group of people did not like the democratic process and got angry and agitated and took it upon themselves to attack the Police, deface a war memorial and generally act like spoiled children. There are far worse and probably more appropriate descriptions than spoiled children that could have been used. And yes, I think they need to grow up and become respected and respectful members of society rather than fighting the Police and defacing memorials because democracy did not give them the answer that they wanted.
Who would they have voted for?!
The point is some people do feel they have no voice and no representation. Repeatedly referring to a choice that would have led to the same outcome isn't much of a choice.
They could have voted Green, they could have voted independent, they could have voted TUSC. They could have had a say.
However, it is disrespectful and CHILDISH to then virtually riot the next day because they did not get what they wanted.
This country has changed its voting map many times through history and it surely will again in the future.vscotland was once. Bastion of Conservatism, the UK was once very, very Liberal. The point being is that we are not a nation of extremes. If change is going to happen it will. But with a scone and a cup of tea rather than with a petrol bomb and a brick.
How do you know they didn't vote?
Sometimes change has to be made to happen.
Two thirds of voters got a government they don't want. One that has caused untold suffering to thousands of them over the past 5 years. Of course many are disgruntled.
With the existence of safe seats, and with many feeling there are no good options and that the state of politics in this country is that it is corrupt and there to benefit the few, of course people are angry.
Still, last time nobody got the government they voted for so some would say this is an improvement.
Personally, with so many feeling that they have no good option and that their voice is not heard, I'm not surprised there is trouble. I expect a lot more yet.
If people vote and still feel unrepresented and unheard, it's only to be expected that they complain.
There is no excuse for damaging war memorials but that was a minority. It's being used as a propaganda tool to discredit the entire protest.
As for idiotic claims such as "at the end of the day this is what the majority of the British people voted for", some people need to educate themselves about the facts and ensure they understand them before spouting off about what "the British people want".
As a further note, because people supported keeping FPTP over AV means they wanted FPTP more than AV, not that they actually want FPTP. AV is not proportional representation. The voting public have not been given the option to choose PR which is an undoubtedly fairer system than we have now. I suspect the decision to offer us the choice of FPTP or AV but not PR was absolutely intentional and done with the aim of keeping FPTP. If we'd been offered PR, the results could have been very, very different."At last. Someone who gets their point across without patronising and condescension. Well said. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"The minority don't have to put up with what the majority wants. The minority are also citizens of this country and not represented, politically, right now. They are most certainly represented, they just don't have majority representation. Agreed. Also, it is pretty much a sign of the times that people feel the need to throw their toys out of the pram because they can't get what they want. My parents and grand parents called that being spoiled. I know your _iews as they are posted all over Fab, nor do I hold an opposite _iew to you, but REALLY, it does not help your point of of _iew to come across by basically calling those who don't agree with you as children or spoiled!
So people who throw their toys out of the pram because they don't get what they want are not spoiled?
Calling them spoiled or children demeans them and does not help your post in anyway was my point.
Ok...
We are talking specifically here about the people protesting outside Downing Street yesterday. The ones who defaced the war memorial.
They had a choice to vote in the referendum in 2011. Whether they voted or not, it is the normal and lawful thing to do in this country to accept the results of a referendum.
They had a choice to vote on Thursday. An election that was held in accordance with the wishes of the referendum four years ago. Irrespective of whether they voted or not, the election took place and a government was formed. The vast majority of people in this country accept what happened and will live with it for five years whilst monitoring how it performs.
One small group of people did not like the democratic process and got angry and agitated and took it upon themselves to attack the Police, deface a war memorial and generally act like spoiled children. There are far worse and probably more appropriate descriptions than spoiled children that could have been used. And yes, I think they need to grow up and become respected and respectful members of society rather than fighting the Police and defacing memorials because democracy did not give them the answer that they wanted.
I made no comment upon their behaviour, simply your comment about toys out of prams etc.,
Are you standing for election?
You do seem to avoid points and give somewhat long winded defences to your own points.
Frequently.
If I knew what points you wanted answering, I would. I am far from being afraid of airing my _iews.
Just the one point I made initially.
I have respect for some of your points but patronising and demeaning others by calling them children by "throwing their toys out of the pram" or "being spoiled" demeans them and by definition you and therfeore helps no-one.
i.e.,
"MARGARET"
...3 second delay
..."YES"
...raised eyebrows
.. 2 second delay..
"I have lady here who wants a comic to patronise voters who don't agree with her point of _iew, do we have one"?
"Have you tried the shelf for people who throw toys out of the pram?"
"No dear is that the democratic shelf?"
Get my drift?
No.
Childish people who disrespect the democratic voice of the people of this country by rioting and defacing war memorials are beneath contempt.
"What is beneath contempt is people who do not recognise the right of people who are unhappy, suffering and feel their voice is being ignored to protest, just because they themselves are happy and doing just fine thank you very much. It's selfishness, plain and simple. A tenet of democracy is the right to protest. That's what most were doing. To attempt to deny them that right, and to refuse to hear them because an angry few went too far is outrageous. And it will only encourage escalation of protests as people seek to be heard. Austerity is severely hurting, even killing people, in this country. Mostly vulnerable people with the fewest resources, least support and no chance to make their voice heard. They can lay down, give up and die, or they can protest and fight. What would you do? Don't tell me you'd eat scones and write letters because that's "let them eat cake" bullshit. To call people childish for fighting to be able to live, eat, access healthcare etc. is just unbelievable. | |||
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" At last. Someone who gets their point across without patronising and condescension. Well said." Fab irony | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
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| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"The minority don't have to put up with what the majority wants. The minority are also citizens of this country and not represented, politically, right now. They are most certainly represented, they just don't have majority representation. Agreed. Also, it is pretty much a sign of the times that people feel the need to throw their toys out of the pram because they can't get what they want. My parents and grand parents called that being spoiled. I know your _iews as they are posted all over Fab, nor do I hold an opposite _iew to you, but REALLY, it does not help your point of of _iew to come across by basically calling those who don't agree with you as children or spoiled!
So people who throw their toys out of the pram because they don't get what they want are not spoiled?
Calling them spoiled or children demeans them and does not help your post in anyway was my point.
Ok...
We are talking specifically here about the people protesting outside Downing Street yesterday. The ones who defaced the war memorial.
They had a choice to vote in the referendum in 2011. Whether they voted or not, it is the normal and lawful thing to do in this country to accept the results of a referendum.
They had a choice to vote on Thursday. An election that was held in accordance with the wishes of the referendum four years ago. Irrespective of whether they voted or not, the election took place and a government was formed. The vast majority of people in this country accept what happened and will live with it for five years whilst monitoring how it performs.
One small group of people did not like the democratic process and got angry and agitated and took it upon themselves to attack the Police, deface a war memorial and generally act like spoiled children. There are far worse and probably more appropriate descriptions than spoiled children that could have been used. And yes, I think they need to grow up and become respected and respectful members of society rather than fighting the Police and defacing memorials because democracy did not give them the answer that they wanted.
Who would they have voted for?!
The point is some people do feel they have no voice and no representation. Repeatedly referring to a choice that would have led to the same outcome isn't much of a choice.
They could have voted Green, they could have voted independent, they could have voted TUSC. They could have had a say.
However, it is disrespectful and CHILDISH to then virtually riot the next day because they did not get what they wanted.
This country has changed its voting map many times through history and it surely will again in the future.vscotland was once. Bastion of Conservatism, the UK was once very, very Liberal. The point being is that we are not a nation of extremes. If change is going to happen it will. But with a scone and a cup of tea rather than with a petrol bomb and a brick.
How do you know they didn't vote?
Sometimes change has to be made to happen.
Two thirds of voters got a government they don't want. One that has caused untold suffering to thousands of them over the past 5 years. Of course many are disgruntled.
With the existence of safe seats, and with many feeling there are no good options and that the state of politics in this country is that it is corrupt and there to benefit the few, of course people are angry.
Still, last time nobody got the government they voted for so some would say this is an improvement.
Personally, with so many feeling that they have no good option and that their voice is not heard, I'm not surprised there is trouble. I expect a lot more yet.
If people vote and still feel unrepresented and unheard, it's only to be expected that they complain.
There is no excuse for damaging war memorials but that was a minority. It's being used as a propaganda tool to discredit the entire protest.
As for idiotic claims such as "at the end of the day this is what the majority of the British people voted for", some people need to educate themselves about the facts and ensure they understand them before spouting off about what "the British people want".
As a further note, because people supported keeping FPTP over AV means they wanted FPTP more than AV, not that they actually want FPTP. AV is not proportional representation. The voting public have not been given the option to choose PR which is an undoubtedly fairer system than we have now. I suspect the decision to offer us the choice of FPTP or AV but not PR was absolutely intentional and done with the aim of keeping FPTP. If we'd been offered PR, the results could have been very, very different."I don't buy that. If there was an overwhelming desire to change the current system, then it would have been changed. Change is evolutionary and to say that AV was rejected because it wasn't PR is nonsense. What about TSV or any other of the myriad of alternative electoral systems? A change was on the table and change brings change by its very nature. Change was rejected. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
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" Its about time hard working people started getting rewarded for hard work, and I believe this is more likely to happen under the tories than any other party.
"Are they going to open more food banks for the thousands of people who work hard now but still struggle? Do you mean that kind of reward? | |||
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" What is beneath contempt is people who do not recognise the right of people who are unhappy, suffering and feel their voice is being ignored to protest, just because they themselves are happy and doing just fine thank you very much. It's selfishness, plain and simple. A tenet of democracy is the right to protest. That's what most were doing. To attempt to deny them that right, and to refuse to hear them because an angry few went too far is outrageous. And it will only encourage escalation of protests as people seek to be heard. Austerity is severely hurting, even killing people, in this country. Mostly vulnerable people with the fewest resources, least support and no chance to make their voice heard. They can lay down, give up and die, or they can protest and fight. What would you do? Don't tell me you'd eat scones and write letters because that's "let them eat cake" bullshit. To call people childish for fighting to be able to live, eat, access healthcare etc. is just unbelievable." I would never seek to deny anyone the right to peaceful protest and it's hardly part of conservative ideology to do so. The violent minority who take advantage of protests like this to deface a memorial or attack the police? Childish is too good for them, they are scum, plain and simple. That's what some on this thread are specifically objecting to. And people vote Conservative for many more reasons than "I'm alright Jack". To dismiss everyone who does so as selfish is grossly inaccurate. I don't agree with socialism; I can see why it appeals to people and I don't criticise them for having those beliefs. Apparently that rarely works the other way round though. Also, everyone needs to regain a sense of proportion. A slightly right of centre party has been elected, instead of a slightly left of centre party. | |||
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" Childish people who disrespect the democratic voice of the people of this country by rioting and defacing war memorials are beneath contempt. " Personally I find the destruction of people's lives considerably more offensive than a bit of paint daubed upon an inanimate piece of rock. | |||
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"The minority don't have to put up with what the majority wants. The minority are also citizens of this country and not represented, politically, right now. They are most certainly represented, they just don't have majority representation. Agreed. Also, it is pretty much a sign of the times that people feel the need to throw their toys out of the pram because they can't get what they want. My parents and grand parents called that being spoiled. I know your _iews as they are posted all over Fab, nor do I hold an opposite _iew to you, but REALLY, it does not help your point of of _iew to come across by basically calling those who don't agree with you as children or spoiled!
So people who throw their toys out of the pram because they don't get what they want are not spoiled?
Calling them spoiled or children demeans them and does not help your post in anyway was my point.
Ok...
We are talking specifically here about the people protesting outside Downing Street yesterday. The ones who defaced the war memorial.
They had a choice to vote in the referendum in 2011. Whether they voted or not, it is the normal and lawful thing to do in this country to accept the results of a referendum.
They had a choice to vote on Thursday. An election that was held in accordance with the wishes of the referendum four years ago. Irrespective of whether they voted or not, the election took place and a government was formed. The vast majority of people in this country accept what happened and will live with it for five years whilst monitoring how it performs.
One small group of people did not like the democratic process and got angry and agitated and took it upon themselves to attack the Police, deface a war memorial and generally act like spoiled children. There are far worse and probably more appropriate descriptions than spoiled children that could have been used. And yes, I think they need to grow up and become respected and respectful members of society rather than fighting the Police and defacing memorials because democracy did not give them the answer that they wanted.
Who would they have voted for?!
The point is some people do feel they have no voice and no representation. Repeatedly referring to a choice that would have led to the same outcome isn't much of a choice.
They could have voted Green, they could have voted independent, they could have voted TUSC. They could have had a say.
However, it is disrespectful and CHILDISH to then virtually riot the next day because they did not get what they wanted.
This country has changed its voting map many times through history and it surely will again in the future.vscotland was once. Bastion of Conservatism, the UK was once very, very Liberal. The point being is that we are not a nation of extremes. If change is going to happen it will. But with a scone and a cup of tea rather than with a petrol bomb and a brick.
How do you know they didn't vote?
Sometimes change has to be made to happen.
Two thirds of voters got a government they don't want. One that has caused untold suffering to thousands of them over the past 5 years. Of course many are disgruntled.
With the existence of safe seats, and with many feeling there are no good options and that the state of politics in this country is that it is corrupt and there to benefit the few, of course people are angry.
Still, last time nobody got the government they voted for so some would say this is an improvement.
Personally, with so many feeling that they have no good option and that their voice is not heard, I'm not surprised there is trouble. I expect a lot more yet.
If people vote and still feel unrepresented and unheard, it's only to be expected that they complain.
There is no excuse for damaging war memorials but that was a minority. It's being used as a propaganda tool to discredit the entire protest.
As for idiotic claims such as "at the end of the day this is what the majority of the British people voted for", some people need to educate themselves about the facts and ensure they understand them before spouting off about what "the British people want".
As a further note, because people supported keeping FPTP over AV means they wanted FPTP more than AV, not that they actually want FPTP. AV is not proportional representation. The voting public have not been given the option to choose PR which is an undoubtedly fairer system than we have now. I suspect the decision to offer us the choice of FPTP or AV but not PR was absolutely intentional and done with the aim of keeping FPTP. If we'd been offered PR, the results could have been very, very different.
I don't buy that. If there was an overwhelming desire to change the current system, then it would have been changed. Change is evolutionary and to say that AV was rejected because it wasn't PR is nonsense. What about TSV or any other of the myriad of alternative electoral systems?
A change was on the table and change brings change by its very nature. Change was rejected."We weren't offered the myriad of other electoral systems 
We weren't offered any form of PR.
Of course you don't buy it though. I never expected anything else from you. | |||
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" Childish people who disrespect the democratic voice of the people of this country by rioting and defacing war memorials are beneath contempt. Personally I find the destruction of people's lives considerably more offensive than a bit of paint daubed upon an inanimate piece of rock." An inanimate piece of rock which stands for and represents a lot to a lot of people. On a significant date, which also represents a lot to a lot of people. Nope, the people who did that are scum. I have no doubt they're a tiny minority of the protestors yesterday, but they're still scum. | |||
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" What is beneath contempt is people who do not recognise the right of people who are unhappy, suffering and feel their voice is being ignored to protest, just because they themselves are happy and doing just fine thank you very much. It's selfishness, plain and simple. A tenet of democracy is the right to protest. That's what most were doing. To attempt to deny them that right, and to refuse to hear them because an angry few went too far is outrageous. And it will only encourage escalation of protests as people seek to be heard. Austerity is severely hurting, even killing people, in this country. Mostly vulnerable people with the fewest resources, least support and no chance to make their voice heard. They can lay down, give up and die, or they can protest and fight. What would you do? Don't tell me you'd eat scones and write letters because that's "let them eat cake" bullshit. To call people childish for fighting to be able to live, eat, access healthcare etc. is just unbelievable. I would never seek to deny anyone the right to peaceful protest and it's hardly part of conservative ideology to do so. The violent minority who take advantage of protests like this to deface a memorial or attack the police? Childish is too good for them, they are scum, plain and simple. That's what some on this thread are specifically objecting to. And people vote Conservative for many more reasons than "I'm alright Jack". To dismiss everyone who does so as selfish is grossly inaccurate. I don't agree with socialism; I can see why it appeals to people and I don't criticise them for having those beliefs. Apparently that rarely works the other way round though. Also, everyone needs to regain a sense of proportion. A slightly right of centre party has been elected, instead of a slightly left of centre party. " I'll try and remember that what I need is a sense of proportion when I'm next homeless (again), and trying to survive without money, food or access to healthcare. I'm sure that proportion will nourish and sustain me. You think I'm being dramatic? I wish. It's already the reality for thousands and thousands more are facing exactly this threat. More will yet die as a result. | |||
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" Childish people who disrespect the democratic voice of the people of this country by rioting and defacing war memorials are beneath contempt. Personally I find the destruction of people's lives considerably more offensive than a bit of paint daubed upon an inanimate piece of rock." I don't think that kind of vandalism can be excused, it's disrespectful to people who are unrelated to the protest and doesn't help the protestors case. | |||
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" At last. Someone who gets their point across without patronising and condescension. Well said. Fab irony "Lots of it about. | |||
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" At last. Someone who gets their point across without patronising and condescension. Well said. Fab irony
Lots of it about. " | |||
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"Oh, and Anna, you are not one of those denying the right of people to protest. My comments weren't aimed at you. Some on here are not only attacking those that damaged the memorial and behaved unacceptably. The claim that the people spoke and everyone else should shut up and put up with it is one I will never accept." | |||
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" Childish people who disrespect the democratic voice of the people of this country by rioting and defacing war memorials are beneath contempt. Personally I find the destruction of people's lives considerably more offensive than a bit of paint daubed upon an inanimate piece of rock. I don't think that kind of vandalism can be excused, it's disrespectful to people who are unrelated to the protest and doesn't help the protestors case. " Agreed. Mind you, a friend of mine on Facebook pointed out that those the war memorial honours fought and gave their lives for freedom and the people of this country and would probably be on the side of the protesters. Seriously though, I can't condone the defacing of war memorials, damage to property or violence but I do understand why it's happening and I think we should expect a lot more of it. | |||
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" Childish people who disrespect the democratic voice of the people of this country by rioting and defacing war memorials are beneath contempt. Personally I find the destruction of people's lives considerably more offensive than a bit of paint daubed upon an inanimate piece of rock." Same here. People first. You can clean the statue, that's repairable. Some serious damage has happened to those being fucked over by the tories, including death. | |||
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" Childish people who disrespect the democratic voice of the people of this country by rioting and defacing war memorials are beneath contempt. Personally I find the destruction of people's lives considerably more offensive than a bit of paint daubed upon an inanimate piece of rock. Same here. People first. You can clean the statue, that's repairable. Some serious damage has happened to those being fucked over by the tories, including death." The Tories and Atos Are now considerably Rich bastards | |||
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" Childish people who disrespect the democratic voice of the people of this country by rioting and defacing war memorials are beneath contempt. Personally I find the destruction of people's lives considerably more offensive than a bit of paint daubed upon an inanimate piece of rock. Same here. People first. You can clean the statue, that's repairable. Some serious damage has happened to those being fucked over by the tories, including death." Couldn't agree more. War memorials commemorate millions of people who have paid the ultimate price - their lives. Now they're being fucked over again by stupid shameless vandals. | |||
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" Childish people who disrespect the democratic voice of the people of this country by rioting and defacing war memorials are beneath contempt. Personally I find the destruction of people's lives considerably more offensive than a bit of paint daubed upon an inanimate piece of rock. Same here. People first. You can clean the statue, that's repairable. Some serious damage has happened to those being fucked over by the tories, including death. The Tories and Atos Are now considerably Rich bastards "And Atos are bloody foreign too!!! | |||
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" Childish people who disrespect the democratic voice of the people of this country by rioting and defacing war memorials are beneath contempt. Personally I find the destruction of people's lives considerably more offensive than a bit of paint daubed upon an inanimate piece of rock. Same here. People first. You can clean the statue, that's repairable. Some serious damage has happened to those being fucked over by the tories, including death. Couldn't agree more. War memorials commemorate millions of people who have paid the ultimate price - their lives. Now they're being fucked over again by stupid shameless vandals." They're dead. They don't even know about the statue in the first place. Welcome to reality. | |||
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" Childish people who disrespect the democratic voice of the people of this country by rioting and defacing war memorials are beneath contempt. Personally I find the destruction of people's lives considerably more offensive than a bit of paint daubed upon an inanimate piece of rock. Same here. People first. You can clean the statue, that's repairable. Some serious damage has happened to those being fucked over by the tories, including death. The Tories and Atos Are now considerably Rich bastards
And Atos are bloody foreign too!!!
"Cant quite Remember Exactly How Much Money "Atos" Reported as Profit but it was Hundreds of Millions.. | |||
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" I don't buy that. If there was an overwhelming desire to change the current system, then it would have been changed. Change is evolutionary and to say that AV was rejected because it wasn't PR is nonsense. What about TSV or any other of the myriad of alternative electoral systems? A change was on the table and change brings change by its very nature. Change was rejected." You're really harming your stance here. What don't you buy exactly? People are protesting because they aren't happy. The cons got what 8% more of the vote than labour? That translated to 100 extra seats and a majority. That's FPTP right there, and it is not representative. At all. You cannot argue with that. As someone else pointed out we had the chance of a referendum between two shite options. That is called engineered consent. Besides most people don't even know the difference. They know that it's not fair, but don't know why. Hence the protests. | |||
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" Childish people who disrespect the democratic voice of the people of this country by rioting and defacing war memorials are beneath contempt. Personally I find the destruction of people's lives considerably more offensive than a bit of paint daubed upon an inanimate piece of rock. Same here. People first. You can clean the statue, that's repairable. Some serious damage has happened to those being fucked over by the tories, including death. Couldn't agree more. War memorials commemorate millions of people who have paid the ultimate price - their lives. Now they're being fucked over again by stupid shameless vandals. They're dead. They don't even know about the statue in the first place. Welcome to reality." That's so right. The memorials are their so that idiots who would wage war can be reminded of the true cost. You expect respect for people who may die today, but you can't give it to those who have. It's behaving like spoiled brats who need to grow up. That would be reality. | |||
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" Childish people who disrespect the democratic voice of the people of this country by rioting and defacing war memorials are beneath contempt. Personally I find the destruction of people's lives considerably more offensive than a bit of paint daubed upon an inanimate piece of rock. Same here. People first. You can clean the statue, that's repairable. Some serious damage has happened to those being fucked over by the tories, including death. Couldn't agree more. War memorials commemorate millions of people who have paid the ultimate price - their lives. Now they're being fucked over again by stupid shameless vandals. They're dead. They don't even know about the statue in the first place. Welcome to reality. That's so right. The memorials are their so that idiots who would wage war can be reminded of the true cost. You expect respect for people who may die today, but you can't give it to those who have. It's behaving like spoiled brats who need to grow up. That would be reality." They aren't being fucked over is my point. They have no idea what happened. My gran was part of the war and she would have said fuck the tories after they shafted her out of £30 a week of her state pension, if she was alive now, well she wouldn't have said fuck coz she didn't swear but she would have slagged them off and agreed with the sentiment. | |||
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" Its about time hard working people started getting rewarded for hard work, and I believe this is more likely to happen under the tories than any other party.
Are they going to open more food banks for the thousands of people who work hard now but still struggle? Do you mean that kind of reward?"I personally believe that although there are food banks in existence, this fact is being exaggerated in the media to try and support the left wing claims that the economy is not improving. Some of the comments made on here seem to give the impression that poverty is rife in Britain. No-one is saying the Tory govt have got everything right and can't improve, but something had to be done to stop the 'get someting for nothing culture' and yes people have struggled to cope, but its nowhere near as bad as places like Greece or the shanty towns of India! Lets have some perspective. The Tories have admitted they're not perfect, but our economy is streets ahead in Europe now and is improving. I do think that a lot of people in this country have been used to getting hand outs from the govt, and now the govt have got tough, they've found themselves in difficulties. Yes, its a hard lesson to learn, but it needed to be done. | |||
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" Childish people who disrespect the democratic voice of the people of this country by rioting and defacing war memorials are beneath contempt. Personally I find the destruction of people's lives considerably more offensive than a bit of paint daubed upon an inanimate piece of rock. Same here. People first. You can clean the statue, that's repairable. Some serious damage has happened to those being fucked over by the tories, including death. Couldn't agree more. War memorials commemorate millions of people who have paid the ultimate price - their lives. Now they're being fucked over again by stupid shameless vandals. They're dead. They don't even know about the statue in the first place. Welcome to reality. That's so right. The memorials are their so that idiots who would wage war can be reminded of the true cost. You expect respect for people who may die today, but you can't give it to those who have. It's behaving like spoiled brats who need to grow up. That would be reality. They aren't being fucked over is my point. They have no idea what happened. My gran was part of the war and she would have said fuck the tories after they shafted her out of £30 a week of her state pension, if she was alive now, well she wouldn't have said fuck coz she didn't swear but she would have slagged them off and agreed with the sentiment." The thing as well is that war memorials aren't actually there for remembrance. They are a statement of authority and imperialism. That's why some choose to deface them. I'd still not deface one as they do mean something to some people, and it is disrespectful and pointless. | |||
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" Childish people who disrespect the democratic voice of the people of this country by rioting and defacing war memorials are beneath contempt. Personally I find the destruction of people's lives considerably more offensive than a bit of paint daubed upon an inanimate piece of rock. Same here. People first. You can clean the statue, that's repairable. Some serious damage has happened to those being fucked over by the tories, including death. Couldn't agree more. War memorials commemorate millions of people who have paid the ultimate price - their lives. Now they're being fucked over again by stupid shameless vandals. They're dead. They don't even know about the statue in the first place. Welcome to reality. That's so right. The memorials are their so that idiots who would wage war can be reminded of the true cost. You expect respect for people who may die today, but you can't give it to those who have. It's behaving like spoiled brats who need to grow up. That would be reality. They aren't being fucked over is my point. They have no idea what happened. My gran was part of the war and she would have said fuck the tories after they shafted her out of £30 a week of her state pension, if she was alive now, well she wouldn't have said fuck coz she didn't swear but she would have slagged them off and agreed with the sentiment." Daubing 'fuck tory scum' on a war memorial for women in world war 2 is immensely disrespectful - that disresepct is fucking them over. I don't know your gran but most people of that generation would be disgusted by such behaviour - whatever their political slant. How about if people daubed "fuck you" on the gravestone of one of the people you say has died? Would that be OK, after all they are dead now? | |||
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"37% of voted were for conservative, only 66% of the population actually cast their vote. So, a party gets power of 100% of the population when only 1 in 4 actually voted for them. This does not represent what people voted for. crystal " I would love to know if the ones marching actually voted.... | |||
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" I would love to know if the ones marching actually voted...." you cant vote if your homeless as so many of them have been made homeless by inflated rents and evictions | |||
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" Childish people who disrespect the democratic voice of the people of this country by rioting and defacing war memorials are beneath contempt. Personally I find the destruction of people's lives considerably more offensive than a bit of paint daubed upon an inanimate piece of rock. Same here. People first. You can clean the statue, that's repairable. Some serious damage has happened to those being fucked over by the tories, including death. Couldn't agree more. War memorials commemorate millions of people who have paid the ultimate price - their lives. Now they're being fucked over again by stupid shameless vandals. They're dead. They don't even know about the statue in the first place. Welcome to reality. That's so right. The memorials are their so that idiots who would wage war can be reminded of the true cost. You expect respect for people who may die today, but you can't give it to those who have. It's behaving like spoiled brats who need to grow up. That would be reality. They aren't being fucked over is my point. They have no idea what happened. My gran was part of the war and she would have said fuck the tories after they shafted her out of £30 a week of her state pension, if she was alive now, well she wouldn't have said fuck coz she didn't swear but she would have slagged them off and agreed with the sentiment. The thing as well is that war memorials aren't actually there for remembrance. They are a statement of authority and imperialism. That's why some choose to deface them. I'd still not deface one as they do mean something to some people, and it is disrespectful and pointless. " I do think they have sentimental value as well as representing authority definitely, but even so they can be repaired. I also understand that by focusing on a statue the media, and anyone else, can ignore the real issues, the real reasons for peoples anger, the real suffering that is happening to real people. I also think that some people are using the defacement as an excuse to portray anyone who wants to be human, and treated as such, as scum. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9ykKgKWb8g Video if anyone wants to watch it, i'm going for a shower. 15 mins long, explains about activism, has annoying computer voice at some parts. | |||
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"37% of voted were for conservative, only 66% of the population actually cast their vote. So, a party gets power of 100% of the population when only 1 in 4 actually voted for them. This does not represent what people voted for. crystal I would love to know if the ones marching actually voted...." They don't need to vote, nobody does really. They're political activists, which means they're directly involved in changing politics themselves. | |||
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" I would love to know if the ones marching actually voted.... you cant vote if your homeless as so many of them have been made homeless by inflated rents and evictions " You CAN vote if homeless. You make a declaration to the election officials and turn up at the polling station. | |||
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" I would love to know if the ones marching actually voted.... you cant vote if your homeless as so many of them have been made homeless by inflated rents and evictions You CAN vote if homeless. You make a declaration to the election officials and turn up at the polling station." If I were homeless, voting procedures would be the last thing on my mind. | |||
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"The people that fought and died in the war were just normal people - both left and right wing. Among them would be people who would _iew the type of person that would deface a monument for an unrelated argument as ignorant pricks. I'd agree with their _iew. " What if people are defacing what they see as a monument to the illegal conscription and resultant death of hundreds of thousands of innocent men? | |||
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" Its about time hard working people started getting rewarded for hard work, and I believe this is more likely to happen under the tories than any other party.
Are they going to open more food banks for the thousands of people who work hard now but still struggle? Do you mean that kind of reward?
I personally believe that although there are food banks in existence, this fact is being exaggerated in the media to try and support the left wing claims that the economy is not improving. Some of the comments made on here seem to give the impression that poverty is rife in Britain. No-one is saying the Tory govt have got everything right and can't improve, but something had to be done to stop the 'get someting for nothing culture' and yes people have struggled to cope, but its nowhere near as bad as places like Greece or the shanty towns of India! Lets have some perspective. The Tories have admitted they're not perfect, but our economy is streets ahead in Europe now and is improving. I do think that a lot of people in this country have been used to getting hand outs from the govt, and now the govt have got tough, they've found themselves in difficulties. Yes, its a hard lesson to learn, but it needed to be done. "Like The Disabled or War Veterans and even the Minimum Waged !! They are really getting picked on right now... Sad really but its true.. | |||
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" I like your other post as well.
I'd like to go to university, but can't afford to go now so stuck in a poorly paid job. Spent about 6 years studying for nothing, or until my circumstances improve again at least.
So many people in that position sadly. It's incredibly ignorant for people to assume if you work hard you'll suddenly be propelled into prosperity. It doesn't work like that in many jobs. It's becoming so much easier for employers to exploit staff too, as they know when people have limited options. It suits the Tory agenda to have a compliant and disadvantaged workforce.
Labour policies sought to close the equality gap. Tory policies actually make it harder for people to get themselves in a better place - course fees are too high, childcare and housing issues impede career prospects, employers can pay below living wage etc
People marching are angry and with good reason.
Which of Labour's policies implemented between 1997 and 2010 sought to close the equality gap?"Two words Minimum wage! | |||
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"The people that fought and died in the war were just normal people - both left and right wing. Among them would be people who would _iew the type of person that would deface a monument for an unrelated argument as ignorant pricks. I'd agree with their _iew. What if people are defacing what they see as a monument to the illegal conscription and resultant death of hundreds of thousands of innocent men?" Then those same people would be highly likely to say that the ones vandalising war memorials are ignorant pricks wriggling to make an excuse for an act of tremendous disrespect to the people who died and are commemorated on those memorials. | |||
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"The people that fought and died in the war were just normal people - both left and right wing. Among them would be people who would _iew the type of person that would deface a monument for an unrelated argument as ignorant pricks. I'd agree with their _iew. What if people are defacing what they see as a monument to the illegal conscription and resultant death of hundreds of thousands of innocent men?" Like I said, ignorant pricks. | |||
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"I'm over the disappointment of the election results now. Now I'm just gonna watch as the country is sadly torn apart. If I had voted for my own self-interest then I should have voted Tory but I give a shit about other people so I didn't. "That's all it boils down to as well. People of a right wing persuasion can dress it up whichever way they want, but it is ultimately self interest which causes them to vote the way they do. Incredibly short sighted self interest at that. The tories may have swayed the vote of many a 'hard-working' mortgage paying family. It is said hard working families children who will pay the price. They've got all of the QE repayment, TTIP, and years of fracking to look forward to. | |||
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"ad hominem, just saying..." As is the phrase "fuck tory scum" daubed on a war memorial. | |||
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"ad hominem, just saying... As is the phrase "fuck tory scum" daubed on a war memorial. " They weren't debating anything though. They were making a statement. | |||
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"ad hominem, just saying... As is the phrase "fuck tory scum" daubed on a war memorial. They weren't debating anything though. They were making a statement." Ad hominem is nothing to do with debating, it's a type of logical fallacy. | |||
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"I'm over the disappointment of the election results now. Now I'm just gonna watch as the country is sadly torn apart. If I had voted for my own self-interest then I should have voted Tory but I give a shit about other people so I didn't.
That's all it boils down to as well. People of a right wing persuasion can dress it up whichever way they want, but it is ultimately self interest which causes them to vote the way they do. Incredibly short sighted self interest at that. The tories may have swayed the vote of many a 'hard-working' mortgage paying family. It is said hard working families children who will pay the price. They've got all of the QE repayment, TTIP, and years of fracking to look forward to. "Nope, that's not why I voted Conservative. Evidence of that? I work in local government, I'm a turkey who just voted for Christmas. I voted that way because I believe the conservative (small c) ethos is better for the country as a whole. You can disagree all you like but don't presume to tell me why I've voted a certain way. There's an incredible amount of condescension and patronising attitudes towards anyone who might dared to vote Conservative on these threads. | |||
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"I predict a riot.....
Actually I do in every city & big town within the next 3 years. " | |||
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"The people that fought and died in the war were just normal people - both left and right wing. Among them would be people who would _iew the type of person that would deface a monument for an unrelated argument as ignorant pricks. I'd agree with their _iew. What if people are defacing what they see as a monument to the illegal conscription and resultant death of hundreds of thousands of innocent men?" If they were, Tory Scum was a poor choice of wording to express that sentiment. | |||
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"this is the aylesbury estate where people have been evicted so they can be sold for higher value of property https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtvghCKNJjQ i wonder how many would like this to happen to them and then try this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8TAx0Okf4c all for private profit would anyone like being forced from there home for others " People don't need homes, they can get free boxes from those pesky food banks everyone keeps talking about! How are executives meant to pay the school fees if they can't evict dirty poor tenants? No indeed, it's dog eat dog, and those tenants are nothing more than a pedigree's chum! Lets embrace the right-love everyone! | |||
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"People may not like it, but the Conservatives won the election fair and square and have a majority to govern the UK. I understand people may not be happy with the austerity measures, but at the end of the day this is what the majority of the British people voted for....and this is Democracy! I'm sick of seeing the extremist lot jumping on the anti austerity march in London, and acting in a threatening way towards the Police and the establishment. At least David Cameron, and Nick Clegg (when in office), had the balls to make a stand and make an attempt at getting the deficit down. For too long this country has bent over backwards and allowed people to abuse the benefits system. Its about time hard working people started getting rewarded for hard work, and I believe this is more likely to happen under the tories than any other party. So, stop your marching, put down your banners, and start bloody working!!
I've just stepped off my soap box now....
Completely agree well said, we are just getting back on our feet in this country, long may it continue
The debt is actually higher now than it was before. The increase in people in employment is actually down to the massive increase in zero hours contracts. Food banks are more prevelant than they have been for many many years!!!
Working people's salaries have not increased with inflation. My salary has actually decreased over the past 10 years!???! How is that right?! And I'm a degree professional. And I'm not the only one... There are people who are working in all sort of jobs who haven't had a pay increase in so many years it's disgraceful! "I'm glad someone has some common sense and knowledge here. | |||
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"The people that fought and died in the war were just normal people - both left and right wing. Among them would be people who would _iew the type of person that would deface a monument for an unrelated argument as ignorant pricks. I'd agree with their _iew. What if people are defacing what they see as a monument to the illegal conscription and resultant death of hundreds of thousands of innocent men? Like I said, ignorant pricks. " Your actually being ignorant there if you want to go into semantics. It's not my _iew, I'm just playing devils advocate. It stands to reason though that some may see it as defacing a monument to imperialism, authority, and manufactured consent.. The media focuses on it because it provokes the kind of outrage you display. Like I said before if never do it as it's pointless and disrespectful. Not necessarily ignorant though. | |||
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" I like your other post as well.
I'd like to go to university, but can't afford to go now so stuck in a poorly paid job. Spent about 6 years studying for nothing, or until my circumstances improve again at least.
So many people in that position sadly. It's incredibly ignorant for people to assume if you work hard you'll suddenly be propelled into prosperity. It doesn't work like that in many jobs. It's becoming so much easier for employers to exploit staff too, as they know when people have limited options. It suits the Tory agenda to have a compliant and disadvantaged workforce.
Labour policies sought to close the equality gap. Tory policies actually make it harder for people to get themselves in a better place - course fees are too high, childcare and housing issues impede career prospects, employers can pay below living wage etc
People marching are angry and with good reason.
Which of Labour's policies implemented between 1997 and 2010 sought to close the equality gap?
Two words
Minimum wage!"Excellent example. That would be the minimum wage which has continued to exist despite 5 years of the coalition government, has increased faster than average wages, and which their are no plans to repeal. | |||
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"People may not like it, but the Conservatives won the election fair and square and have a majority to govern the UK. I understand people may not be happy with the austerity measures, but at the end of the day this is what the majority of the British people voted for....and this is Democracy! I'm sick of seeing the extremist lot jumping on the anti austerity march in London, and acting in a threatening way towards the Police and the establishment. At least David Cameron, and Nick Clegg (when in office), had the balls to make a stand and make an attempt at getting the deficit down. For too long this country has bent over backwards and allowed people to abuse the benefits system. Its about time hard working people started getting rewarded for hard work, and I believe this is more likely to happen under the tories than any other party. So, stop your marching, put down your banners, and start bloody working!!
I've just stepped off my soap box now....
Completely agree well said, we are just getting back on our feet in this country, long may it continue
The debt is actually higher now than it was before. The increase in people in employment is actually down to the massive increase in zero hours contracts. Food banks are more prevelant than they have been for many many years!!!
Working people's salaries have not increased with inflation. My salary has actually decreased over the past 10 years!???! How is that right?! And I'm a degree professional. And I'm not the only one... There are people who are working in all sort of jobs who haven't had a pay increase in so many years it's disgraceful! "Those who are okay will continue to be okay - those who struggle or even just those who are borderline will suffer | |||
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"ad hominem, just saying... As is the phrase "fuck tory scum" daubed on a war memorial. They weren't debating anything though. They were making a statement. Ad hominem is nothing to do with debating, it's a type of logical fallacy." Fuck the tories can't be taken as a mistake in reasoning, although they may be trying to persuade us to fuck the tories so i'm now confused. Like how easy it is to take people off track, can see how easy it is to get people to ignore the real issues, i should work in mind manipulation.
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" Its about time hard working people started getting rewarded for hard work, and I believe this is more likely to happen under the tories than any other party.
Are they going to open more food banks for the thousands of people who work hard now but still struggle? Do you mean that kind of reward?
I personally believe that although there are food banks in existence, this fact is being exaggerated in the media to try and support the left wing claims that the economy is not improving. Some of the comments made on here seem to give the impression that poverty is rife in Britain. No-one is saying the Tory govt have got everything right and can't improve, but something had to be done to stop the 'get someting for nothing culture' and yes people have struggled to cope, but its nowhere near as bad as places like Greece or the shanty towns of India! Lets have some perspective. The Tories have admitted they're not perfect, but our economy is streets ahead in Europe now and is improving. I do think that a lot of people in this country have been used to getting hand outs from the govt, and now the govt have got tough, they've found themselves in difficulties. Yes, its a hard lesson to learn, but it needed to be done. "Oh dear God!
Which planet are you on? I'd love to live there. | |||
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"I'm over the disappointment of the election results now. Now I'm just gonna watch as the country is sadly torn apart. If I had voted for my own self-interest then I should have voted Tory but I give a shit about other people so I didn't.
That's all it boils down to as well. People of a right wing persuasion can dress it up whichever way they want, but it is ultimately self interest which causes them to vote the way they do. Incredibly short sighted self interest at that. The tories may have swayed the vote of many a 'hard-working' mortgage paying family. It is said hard working families children who will pay the price. They've got all of the QE repayment, TTIP, and years of fracking to look forward to.
Nope, that's not why I voted Conservative. Evidence of that? I work in local government, I'm a turkey who just voted for Christmas. I voted that way because I believe the conservative (small c) ethos is better for the country as a whole. You can disagree all you like but don't presume to tell me why I've voted a certain way.
There's an incredible amount of condescension and patronising attitudes towards anyone who might dared to vote Conservative on these threads."A conservative (small c) ethos certainly doesn't line up with your _iews on gender! Or mine for that matter! I wasn't talking about the Conservatives in this election, I was talking about people of a right wing persuasion. If you balanced up the individual policies of each party and overall decided that this time around the conservatives have the better policies for the good of the nation, then that is a perfectly respectable stance. I don't agree, but I respect it. I don't respect people who vote the same way every time, regardless of actual policy. People who spout nonsense such as benefit scroungers are ruining the economy, and anyone who is poor doesn't work hard. | |||
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" Oh dear God!
Which planet are you on? I'd love to live there."Button Moon maybe? Osborne does look like a spoon! | |||
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" I like your other post as well.
I'd like to go to university, but can't afford to go now so stuck in a poorly paid job. Spent about 6 years studying for nothing, or until my circumstances improve again at least.
So many people in that position sadly. It's incredibly ignorant for people to assume if you work hard you'll suddenly be propelled into prosperity. It doesn't work like that in many jobs. It's becoming so much easier for employers to exploit staff too, as they know when people have limited options. It suits the Tory agenda to have a compliant and disadvantaged workforce.
Labour policies sought to close the equality gap. Tory policies actually make it harder for people to get themselves in a better place - course fees are too high, childcare and housing issues impede career prospects, employers can pay below living wage etc
People marching are angry and with good reason.
Which of Labour's policies implemented between 1997 and 2010 sought to close the equality gap?
Two words
Minimum wage!
Excellent example. That would be the minimum wage which has continued to exist despite 5 years of the coalition government, has increased faster than average wages, and which their are no plans to repeal. "That's right under the coalition government. Bug what's to say it will continue to rise? Also Tories were the ones who suggested that a minimum wage would cripple the economy, but it didn't did it! | |||
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" I like your other post as well.
I'd like to go to university, but can't afford to go now so stuck in a poorly paid job. Spent about 6 years studying for nothing, or until my circumstances improve again at least.
So many people in that position sadly. It's incredibly ignorant for people to assume if you work hard you'll suddenly be propelled into prosperity. It doesn't work like that in many jobs. It's becoming so much easier for employers to exploit staff too, as they know when people have limited options. It suits the Tory agenda to have a compliant and disadvantaged workforce.
Labour policies sought to close the equality gap. Tory policies actually make it harder for people to get themselves in a better place - course fees are too high, childcare and housing issues impede career prospects, employers can pay below living wage etc
People marching are angry and with good reason.
Which of Labour's policies implemented between 1997 and 2010 sought to close the equality gap?
Two words
Minimum wage!
Excellent example. That would be the minimum wage which has continued to exist despite 5 years of the coalition government, has increased faster than average wages, and which their are no plans to repeal.
That's right under the coalition government. Bug what's to say it will continue to rise? Also Tories were the ones who suggested that a minimum wage would cripple the economy, but it didn't did it!"That would be a pre-1997 Conservative govenrment? So almost 20 years ago? Happily they were proved wrong. Who is to say it would continue to rise under any government? As far as I'm aware it's only TUSC who made specific commitments in relation to it. | |||
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" Its about time hard working people started getting rewarded for hard work, and I believe this is more likely to happen under the tories than any other party.
Are they going to open more food banks for the thousands of people who work hard now but still struggle? Do you mean that kind of reward?
I personally believe that although there are food banks in existence, this fact is being exaggerated in the media to try and support the left wing claims that the economy is not improving. Some of the comments made on here seem to give the impression that poverty is rife in Britain. No-one is saying the Tory govt have got everything right and can't improve, but something had to be done to stop the 'get someting for nothing culture' and yes people have struggled to cope, but its nowhere near as bad as places like Greece or the shanty towns of India! Lets have some perspective. The Tories have admitted they're not perfect, but our economy is streets ahead in Europe now and is improving. I do think that a lot of people in this country have been used to getting hand outs from the govt, and now the govt have got tough, they've found themselves in difficulties. Yes, its a hard lesson to learn, but it needed to be done.
Oh dear God!
Which planet are you on? I'd love to live there."It's called planet privilege. I've been it's nice, a lot of people with their heads in the clouds though.. | |||
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"Does the minimum wage actually account to be a liveable wage? Can you earn enough on minimum wage to pay your taxes, pay your bills and have a little left over? I don't think so! "But you get tax credits to top it up. I'd be all for scrapping the tax credit system and increasing the personal allowance with the money saved, seems like a far more straightforward way of administering it. | |||
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" As far as I'm aware it's only TUSC who made specific commitments in relation to it. " And I proudly voted for that £10/hour minimum wage! And I'd do it again. | |||
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"Does the minimum wage actually account to be a liveable wage? Can you earn enough on minimum wage to pay your taxes, pay your bills and have a little left over? I don't think so! "Exactly I work for a company who only pay minimum, it sucks I feel bad for the cleaners who do they can barely survive. I wished I could offer them LLW but I cannot as I'm only a supervisor. On the other hand the Tories have made paying tax only applicable should you earn £10k a year, does raise the question of where are funds going to come from to close the deficit? | |||
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"The people that fought and died in the war were just normal people - both left and right wing. Among them would be people who would _iew the type of person that would deface a monument for an unrelated argument as ignorant pricks. I'd agree with their _iew. What if people are defacing what they see as a monument to the illegal conscription and resultant death of hundreds of thousands of innocent men? Like I said, ignorant pricks. Your actually being ignorant there if you want to go into semantics. It's not my _iew, I'm just playing devils advocate. It stands to reason though that some may see it as defacing a monument to imperialism, authority, and manufactured consent.. The media focuses on it because it provokes the kind of outrage you display. Like I said before if never do it as it's pointless and disrespectful. Not necessarily ignorant though. " No matter how long winded the justification, ignorant prick will nonetheless sufficiently describe the actions of somebody defacing a monument to those that gave their lives to enable such ignorant pricks to behave like ignorant pricks. | |||
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"Does the minimum wage actually account to be a liveable wage? Can you earn enough on minimum wage to pay your taxes, pay your bills and have a little left over? I don't think so!
But you get tax credits to top it up. I'd be all for scrapping the tax credit system and increasing the personal allowance with the money saved, seems like a far more straightforward way of administering it."Why on earth should the government have to subsidise someone who is working full time? If you are working full time, don't have enough money to pay your taxes, pay your bills and have a little left over then the system is broken! What a notion - that work should pay! | |||
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" "Does the minimum wage actually account to be a liveable wage? Can you earn enough on minimum wage to pay your taxes, pay your bills and have a little left over? I don't think so! But you get tax credits to top it up. I'd be all for scrapping the tax credit system and increasing the personal allowance with the money saved, seems like a far more straightforward way of administering it." Why on earth should the government have to subsidise someone who is working full time? If you are working full time, don't have enough money to pay your taxes, pay your bills and have a little left over then the system is broken! What a notion - that work should pay! " Work should pay? Careful now, you sound like IDS... | |||
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"ad hominem, just saying... As is the phrase "fuck tory scum" daubed on a war memorial. They weren't debating anything though. They were making a statement." Ad hominem is nothing to do with debating, it's a type of logical fallacy. A mistake in reasoning would be to manipulate the words 'fuck tory scum', which attacks the character of tories, into a more generic 'fuck the tories' as you did there. | |||
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"People may not like it, but the Conservatives won the election fair and square and have a majority to govern the UK. I understand people may not be happy with the austerity measures, but at the end of the day this is what the majority of the British people voted for....and this is Democracy! I'm sick of seeing the extremist lot jumping on the anti austerity march in London, and acting in a threatening way towards the Police and the establishment. At least David Cameron, and Nick Clegg (when in office), had the balls to make a stand and make an attempt at getting the deficit down. For too long this country has bent over backwards and allowed people to abuse the benefits system. Its about time hard working people started getting rewarded for hard work, and I believe this is more likely to happen under the tories than any other party. So, stop your marching, put down your banners, and start bloody working!!
I've just stepped off my soap box now....
Completely agree well said, we are just getting back on our feet in this country, long may it continue
The debt is actually higher now than it was before. The increase in people in employment is actually down to the massive increase in zero hours contracts. Food banks are more prevelant than they have been for many many years!!!
Working people's salaries have not increased with inflation. My salary has actually decreased over the past 10 years!???! How is that right?! And I'm a degree professional. And I'm not the only one... There are people who are working in all sort of jobs who haven't had a pay increase in so many years it's disgraceful! ". We need to know why people are resorting to the use of food banks? . How have they spent the rest of their income and why was it not spent on food. ? In theory the income support / benefits system provides enough income for everyone to live on. Lots of peoples salaries have remained constant for the last ten years . Pay increases generally have to be earned and companies need profits to pay them , or in the case of civil servants we have to pay more tax . The reality is that no one can be underpaid . If you think you have sufficient skills and are not being rewarded , you simply leave your existing job and start a new one elsewhere . | |||
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