FabSwingers.com forum: Labour Leadership (NOT election thread)

By *oo hot OP Couple
over a year ago

North West

Interesting to watch the fallout from Millibands resignation and the number of current and former Labour MP's falling over themselves to distance themselves and any future Labour policy from being as left wing as Milliband was going.

So a question for the Labour Party supporters on here. Where do you want the next Labour administration to position themselves? Centre Left or fully Left? Blair or Milliband?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

far left long gone and would NEVER win another election in this era - the only way now is the 'middle ground' but with overriding socialist principles in my opinion

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By *oo hot OP Couple
over a year ago

North West

"far left long gone and would NEVER win another election in this era - the only way now is the 'middle ground' but with overriding socialist principles in my opinion"

So Blair?

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By *alandNitaCouple
over a year ago

Scunthorpe

To be honest, the party leader is more about being a "Poster boy" than setting party policies. Obviously the leadership has an influence on the those policies but ultimately, the policies have more of an influence over who the new leader could be.

As has already been said, the days of extreme left are long gone BUT certainly the party needs to move a little further left than they are at the moment.

I would actually, quite like to see a youngish female leader lead the party forward (ideally attractive with big tits) and preferably someone who didn't go to Public School and has had some proper jobs.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

could,nt they just merge with the conservatives,,i mean their so similar

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

"To be honest, the party leader is more about being a "Poster boy" than setting party policies. Obviously the leadership has an influence on the those policies but ultimately, the policies have more of an influence over who the new leader could be.

As has already been said, the days of extreme left are long gone BUT certainly the party needs to move a little further left than they are at the moment.

Dianne Abbot? Well she has got big tits and didn't go to public school.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Would be interesting to see Andy Burnham given a chance

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

the labour party died years ago

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

As has already been said, the days of extreme left are long gone BUT certainly the party needs to move a little further left than they are at the moment.

Dianne Abbot? Well she has got big tits and didn't go to public school.

Most kids don't have much say in where they're sent to school.

Ms Abbott chose to send her son to private school.

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

"Would be interesting to see Andy Burnham given a chance "

Burnham is tainted by the Staffordshire scandal and would be a liability.

Umunna looks the part, but is a bit too much from the bubble and I think a bit too young. At least he's not tainted by the brown years though so maybe one for the future.

Cooper is Ed Balls Mrs. Enough said.

Millband senior? his only problem now is his surname, oh and he's not an MP.

Seriously though Labour have a huge problem in finding a new leader but whoever they choose it has to be someone who will appeal to voters outside of Labour's core support.

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By *ere-for-my-convenienceWoman
over a year ago

Tenbury Wells

The far left can easily rise from the ashes of capitalism and the previous banking collapses and public funded bailouts

All they need is faith

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Big opportunity to take the middle/slightly left of middle ground with the Lib Dems decimated and Tories likely to push further right.

None of the potential leadership candidates inspire at all. I think they should take their time and avoid a union patsy, a career politician who is just Cameron lite and go for someone with broad appeal and able to position Labour as an electable proposition which sadly they weren't in this election.

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By *anchestercubMan
over a year ago

manchester & NI

I still think Dan Jarvis.

At the very least being an ex-soldier would get more than a few votes.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"the labour party died years ago"

SERIOUSLY! Cant you guys see they are not the labour party anymore

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"the labour party died years ago"

About the same time as John Smith.

Should have pressed Alan Johnson into leadership instead of either Milliband, this time around I think an absolute clean break is needed, possibly Tristram Hunt.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I support labour and I hope tony blair steps up, we need a strong candidate and he fits the spot, nice guy all in all.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Jarvis would be the most sensible in terms of voter appeal but no idea how good he'd actually be.

Chuka is probably the safest bet.

Burnham would be a big mistake. They need a clean sweep of everyone associated with Brown/Blair.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"the labour party died years ago

About the same time as John Smith.

Should have pressed Alan Johnson into leadership instead of either Milliband, this time around I think an absolute clean break is needed, possibly Tristram Hunt."

If they want to remain in opposition Hunt would be perfect.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think Burnham would make a good leader of the party.

Good hard working MP . Had experience in government. He would be a good change from the current shadow cabinet.

Recently it has not reflected real people within the UK.

Despite what the tory press may be saying Labour is not a spent force.

Its time to rebuild the party from the grassroots.time to reflect on the direction the party wants to go.

The labour party is such a broad church. The members can have quite diverse _iews. A knee jerk leap to the left would make then unelectable and play in to the hands of the right wing press.

It will take time but we will rebuild

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The only chance the labour party have of winning the next election is if there is a recession before it takes place. Then it will be possible to discredit the conservative Economic policy.

No recession = No election win for labour.

Interestingly, Cameron said that the deficit would be cleared by now. However, He only reduced it by 50%! Also, he said that he would reduce immigration, but that has actually increased.

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"the labour party died years ago

SERIOUSLY! Cant you guys see they are not the labour party anymore"

I can see it Mikki, Labour are no longer the party for the working class, just a bunch of champagne socialists.

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"Would be interesting to see Andy Burnham given a chance

Burnham is tainted by the Staffordshire scandal and would be a liability.

Umunna looks the part, but is a bit too much from the bubble and I think a bit too young. At least he's not tainted by the brown years though so maybe one for the future.

Cooper is Ed Balls Mrs. Enough said.

Millband senior? his only problem now is his surname, oh and he's not an MP.

Seriously though Labour have a huge problem in finding a new leader but whoever they choose it has to be someone who will appeal to voters outside of Labour's core support.

Agree about Burnham, i live in staffordshire and his face will forever be associated with the scandal at stafford hospital here, as he was health secretary at the time it happened.

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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago

Derby

"the labour party died years ago

About the same time as John Smith.

Should have pressed Alan Johnson into leadership instead of either Milliband, this time around I think an absolute clean break is needed, possibly Tristram Hunt."

Tristram Hunt? Sounds too public school, and you can just imagine the rhyming slang!

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By *anchestercubMan
over a year ago

manchester & NI

Burnham would be a big mistake. They need a clean sweep of everyone associated with Brown/Blair. "

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By *obka3Couple
over a year ago

bournemouth

"I support labour and I hope tony blair steps up, we need a strong candidate and he fits the spot, nice guy all in all."

That would finish labour off for years, he took us to war on a lie, we know it, he knows we know it, his policy of spend spend spend led the country to be in a huge mess, labour try and blame the debt on bailing the banks out but that was only a part of the debt he built up, and of course he has feathered his nest very nicely thank you

very much,

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By *oo hot OP Couple
over a year ago

North West

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By *alandNitaCouple
over a year ago

Scunthorpe

To be honest... I don't think Blair made the lie up, he just believe it when he was told.....

He undoubtedly should have had facts checked but then that's a different story.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I support labour and I hope tony blair steps up, we need a strong candidate and he fits the spot, nice guy all in all.

very much, "
.

Your right about the war, wrong about the debt.

As prime minister's go I'd say he was definitely one the brighter ones

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Blair was a great PM. Who made a terrible terrible error.

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By *oo hot OP Couple
over a year ago

North West

"Blair was a great PM. Who made a terrible terrible error."

Interesting words from Tony Blair this morning...

"... "Hard working families" don't just want us to celebrate their hard work; they want to know by hard work and effort they can do well, rise up, achieve."

That was always my issue with the Milliband message. You are ok as long as you are a hard working family, but if you had a purpose, ambition or desire then there was no Labour message for you.

Just what will Labour do? Getting back to a more moderate Blairite Labour is all well and good but their is still toxicity about the man himself.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"far left long gone and would NEVER win another election in this era - the only way now is the 'middle ground' but with overriding socialist principles in my opinion"
Can you explain what you consider to be overriding socialist principles?

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By *lutmeup500Woman
over a year ago

London

we need the other milliband

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think Labour shot themselves in the foot when they allowed the Unions vote Ed as leader after party members had voted for David.

They have just found out the cost of giving the Unions too much power in the leadership race - a cost I predicted at the time when they lost my vote.

As for ypur question, what's next? It doesnt matter, the recovery will be complete by 2020 and the UK will want change regardless who is party leader.

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By *lutmeup500Woman
over a year ago

London

"I think Labour shot themselves in the foot when they allowed the Unions vote Ed as leader after party members had voted for David.

They have just found out the cost of giving the Unions too much power in the leadership race - a cost I predicted at the time when they lost my vote.

As for ypur question, what's next? It doesnt matter, the recovery will be complete by 2020 and the UK will want change regardless who is party leader."

agreed

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

All I want from the Labour Party is Ed Balls day to be a recognised holiday

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By *lutmeup500Woman
over a year ago

London

ed balls was lovely

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Blair was a great PM. Who made a terrible terrible error.

Interesting words from Tony Blair this morning...

"... "Hard working families" don't just want us to celebrate their hard work; they want to know by hard work and effort they can do well, rise up, achieve."

That was always my issue with the Milliband message. You are ok as long as you are a hard working family, but if you had a purpose, ambition or desire then there was no Labour message for you.

Just what will Labour do? Getting back to a more moderate Blairite Labour is all well and good but their is still toxicity about the man himself."

As an idealistic youngster I was very active in politics and wanted to change the world with a basic aim to redistribute wealth fairly and on an equitable basis. I thought that Clause 4 was a perfectly reasonable aim and objective of a civilianised and inclusive society.

Time has shown me that the Great British public neither want or desire radical solution to the ills of society. Margaret Hilda was the nearest exponent of radical politics in my _iew and she dressed it up with tit bits like the right to buy and share ownership et al.

Fast forward to 2015 and we have the two main parties having the same objectives [mainly to gain power]and near enough the same ideological mantra the only difference being they would arrange the numbers is slightly different ways.

Perhaps the SNP and UKIP are the new radical faces of politics. That said if you took a Nigel speech and replace the word immigration with Westminster it would be Ms Sturgeon speaking.

The Labour leadership position is akin to taking a job at Newcastle United quite simply your dammed if you do and you don't the ubiquitous poisoned chalice. So they will choose a Blairite and try and capture the middle ground if that is the unions will let them.

On Thursday I voted for the Tories as I have done what I could to change society but now I work hard pay my taxes and look after my own; perhaps age has told me there is no black or white in life just shades of grey and this will true of the Labour leadership.

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By *iewMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Angus & Findhorn

"Blair was a great PM. Who made a terrible terrible error.

Interesting words from Tony Blair this morning...

"... "Hard working families" don't just want us to celebrate their hard work; they want to know by hard work and effort they can do well, rise up, achieve."

That was always my issue with the Milliband message. You are ok as long as you are a hard working family, but if you had a purpose, ambition or desire then there was no Labour message for you.

Just what will Labour do? Getting back to a more moderate Blairite Labour is all well and good but their is still toxicity about the man himself.

Perhaps the SNP and UKIP are the new radical faces of politics. That said if you took a Nigel speech and replace the word immigration with Westminster it would be Ms Sturgeon speaking.

an excellent post

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'd agree the reason Labour lost is they weren't really offering an alternative. Their message came across as things will be crap whatever, we'll just try to be a little less crap.

The parties are stuck in the middle partly because they fear upsetting the status quo and partly because in an educated society the middle is a sensible place to be.

This will change if and when that status quo changes and that nearly happened a few years ago when the then govt had to prop up the banks. For now they've been able to patch it up and so the arguments remain the same.

For now Blair may have been a great PM, but it would be a mistake for a new leadership to associate with him. They need to appear to be aiming for completely new ground, albeit still in the middle.. unless things start to go wrong in this parliament.. and they could very well do.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Blair was a great PM. Who made a terrible terrible error.

Interesting words from Tony Blair this morning...

"... "Hard working families" don't just want us to celebrate their hard work; they want to know by hard work and effort they can do well, rise up, achieve."

That was always my issue with the Milliband message. You are ok as long as you are a hard working family, but if you had a purpose, ambition or desire then there was no Labour message for you.

Just what will Labour do? Getting back to a more moderate Blairite Labour is all well and good but their is still toxicity about the man himself."

I liked Tony Blair, I actually voted for him in 97, although I didn't vote for him after that.

This concept that labour produced family's of welfare dependants is rubbish, yeah they gave welfare more money because of their socialist ideology, but it was Margret Thatcher that started the idea of welfare dependants, it was the Tories that moved whole rafts of people off unemployment onto disability, they gave up on those difficult people and moved them out of the limelight of unemployment figures!.

I don't think labour have any better solutions to the problems we've faced since the early 70s than the Tories have!

The problems we face are not political there economical and natural.

Power always is in the hands of the wealthy creators

The land owners had the power during the agricultural revolution

The mill owners had the power during the industrial revolution

And the bankers have had the power since the 70s when we moved to a debt based monetary system.

As much as your a capitalist, we know longer live in a capitalist system it's a credit based system, it's designed around exponential expansion of debt.

When David Cameron says he wants to get back to a savings based system he's either a serious idiot or he's lying through his back teeth.

All the first world countries have lived off bubbles since 1975.

Real wealth under old fashioned capitalism comes from productivity, productivity makes you more capital which you invest into other ventures and gives you growth!.

That's not been the model since Breton woods ended, now we borrow for growth.

It doesn't matter who's in power those pressures that have been mounting since the tech bubble burst in 98-99.

No politician has been honest with the electorate since Churchill's speech about the battle of Britain.

If labour had really wanted to win that election do you really think the high command would have picked Ed milliband, the guy looks goofy talks goofy and acts goofy, and I don't mean to belittle his real talents but in politics where it's sound bites and image.... Really?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Going back to the original post I think Mrs Balls is the favourite as she has a finger in lots of pies within the party and is the one candidate that would not cause an internecine war between the rival factions within the party.

An outside bet for me would be Dan Jarvis.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Chuka - with Jarvis and Kendall in senior positions. Possibly Cooper too.

Burnham kept well away.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Chuka - with Jarvis and Kendall in senior positions. Possibly Cooper too.

Burnham kept well away. "

Chuka does have a large London powerbase but is _iewed as being a Blair Clone by the unions. Burnham is tainted and supports Everton so he is there to make up the numbers.

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By *ourbonKissMan
over a year ago

a land up north..... of leicester

"Would be interesting to see Andy Burnham given a chance "

my thoughts exactly, he was my second choice to the elder Miliband 5 Years ago

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By *alcon43Woman
over a year ago

Paisley

Whoever the leader is I'd like them to be straight talking, stick to their principles and stop silly arguments in Westminster.

I'm fed up with poloticians who can't answer a question directly and instead slag off the other parties policies.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Seriously I'm glad I voted Conservative.

Milliband fucked himself over the second he made the decision to let a "comedian" like Russell Brand inter_iew him.

.. and who wants a leader who makes decisions like that run the country?..

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

Not a committed labour supporter, but a clear distinction between them and damaging right wing ideologies would be right.

Employee and tenant protections stand tall. Equality. Control of state intrusion, such as privacy rights.

Policies to stimulate growth essential, though not at the cost of finite resources. Environmental protection against global warming.

Fairer taxes, meaning revenue earned here is taxed here. Loopholes closed allowing avoidance.

Probably a bigger state in the areas of consumer protection and food safety, tax affairs and environment.

Will accept offers for nomination, as first trans Leader and PM.

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By *educedWoman
over a year ago

Birmingham

We need someone young and dynamic.

Chuka Umunna will get my vote.

Plus he is rather handsome

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

"The far left can easily rise from the ashes of capitalism and the previous banking collapses and public funded bailouts

All they need is faith "

Up the revolution: Power to the people: Keep the red flag flying here.

Go for it. The Tories will be smiling for decades

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By *oo hot OP Couple
over a year ago

North West

"Going back to the original post I think Mrs Balls is the favourite as she has a finger in lots of pies within the party and is the one candidate that would not cause an internecine war between the rival factions within the party.

An outside bet for me would be Dan Jarvis. "

Problem is that her judgement will be questioned from day 1.

Agree about Jarvis.

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By *erbyDalesCplCouple
over a year ago

Derbyshire

I don't care who, but it needs to be someone who stand up to the unions, not be beholden to them. I have no problem with the unions per se, but their role is solely to stand up for their membership. When the unions run the country, who speaks up to ensure our public services are run to the benefit of the 65m members of the public, rather than the 6.5m union membership?

Socialism should be government for all.

But Blair was right, you can either stick to your left-wing ideology, or govern. Especially now they have lost their Scottish 'block-vote'.

Mr ddc

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

"The far left can easily rise from the ashes of capitalism and the previous banking collapses and public funded bailouts

All they need is faith

Up the revolution: Power to the people: Keep the red flag flying here.

Go for it. The Tories will be smiling for decades

You forgot "Freedom for Tooting"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"We need someone young and dynamic.

Chuka Umunna will get my vote.

Plus he is rather handsome

I lost all respect for him after an inept and lying performance on newsnight a couple of weeks before the election. I cannot see him having broad appeal. What Labour need is the modern say equivalent of John Smith with a bright young team around him.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Interesting to watch the fallout from Millibands resignation and the number of current and former Labour MP's falling over themselves to distance themselves and any future Labour policy from being as left wing as Milliband was going.

So a question for the Labour Party supporters on here. Where do you want the next Labour administration to position themselves? Centre Left or fully Left? Blair or Milliband?"

Dennis Skinner. He's an honest man. Very rare.

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

So a question for the Labour Party supporters on here. Where do you want the next Labour administration to position themselves? Centre Left or fully Left? Blair or Milliband?

Dennis Skinner. He's an honest man. Very rare."

Too old and, a bit like Tony Benn in his day, people may not question his integrity but will just not agree with his extreme left ideas.

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By *L RogueMan
over a year ago

London

For me, Chuka Umunna and I'd like to see Stella Creasy step forward to or at least in a more senior position.

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

"The far left can easily rise from the ashes of capitalism and the previous banking collapses and public funded bailouts

All they need is faith

Up the revolution: Power to the people: Keep the red flag flying here.

Go for it. The Tories will be smiling for decades

You forgot "Freedom for Tooting"

Wolfie for PM.

The people... united... shall never be defeated.

Yakaty yakaty yar

. Will they never learn. (sigh-

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

[Removed by poster at 10/05/15 14:44:16]

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

"We need someone young and dynamic.

Chuka Umunna will get my vote.

Plus he is rather handsome

No, what Labour needs is a modern day equivalent to what we all originally thought Tony Blair was. Anything else just means years, possibly even a generation, of opposition for Labour; and that's if they're lucky.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"For me, Chuka Umunna and I'd like to see Stella Creasy step forward to or at least in a more senior position."

I really don't get the clamour for Umunna, he is Cameron lite, all style with no real substance. I'm sure they can do better. I would like to see someone like Tom Watson given a chance, the way he took on Murdoch shows he has balls and is a man of principle.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"For me, Chuka Umunna and I'd like to see Stella Creasy step forward to or at least in a more senior position."

I think Stella Creasy is too inexperienced but I do like what I've seen of her and she had an excellent article in the guardian yesterday, the first I've seen from a labour politician that hasn't just sought to blame external forces for the defeat.

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By *L RogueMan
over a year ago

London

"For me, Chuka Umunna and I'd like to see Stella Creasy step forward to or at least in a more senior position.

I saw that article. It was good. She had a really good campaign too. You're probably right on the experience but I think she could be a major player for Labour.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Amused at the implication Cameron is all style and no substance. I can agree no substance, but style?!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"For me, Chuka Umunna and I'd like to see Stella Creasy step forward to or at least in a more senior position.

I saw that article. It was good. She had a really good campaign too. You're probably right on the experience but I think she could be a major player for Labour."

Definitely one to watch for the future I think.

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By *igandanneCouple
over a year ago

Cheltenham

Who cares,because the next labour PM hasent even been born yet

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By *erbyDalesCplCouple
over a year ago

Derbyshire

"For me, Chuka Umunna and I'd like to see Stella Creasy step forward to or at least in a more senior position.

I saw that article. It was good. She had a really good campaign too. You're probably right on the experience but I think she could be a major player for Labour.

Definitely one to watch for the future I think. "

I think you'll find she isn't Labour though, but the Co-operative party instead. They just stand as combined candidates in certain constituencies.

I'm not sure Labour rank and file is quite ready a member of the aristocracy as their leader either (she's more posh than Cameron ffs!)

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

"Amused at the implication Cameron is all style and no substance. I can agree no substance, but style?!!

You're falling into the trap of underestimating your opposition again. Far better to work on the basis that the leader of the opposing side has both style, substance and charisma.

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By *L RogueMan
over a year ago

London

"For me, Chuka Umunna and I'd like to see Stella Creasy step forward to or at least in a more senior position.

I saw that article. It was good. She had a really good campaign too. You're probably right on the experience but I think she could be a major player for Labour.

Definitely one to watch for the future I think.

I think you'll find she isn't Labour though, but the Co-operative party instead. They just stand as combined candidates in certain constituencies.

I'm not sure Labour rank and file is quite ready a member of the aristocracy as their leader either (she's more posh than Cameron ffs!)"

You know what they say: fight fire with fire!

I got time for her and fully aware of the links to the co-operative as I'm a member. A strong politician who may not be ready to lead but will be needed as the party rebuild.

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By *erbyDalesCplCouple
over a year ago

Derbyshire

She certainly sounds a sensible person. I'll give you that

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Amused at the implication Cameron is all style and no substance. I can agree no substance, but style?!!

You're falling into the trap of underestimating your opposition again. Far better to work on the basis that the leader of the opposing side has both style, substance and charisma."

Cameron isn't my opposition, I'll vote for whoever I agree with at the time. When he introduced the Big Society idea I was interested.

Strange how it was quietly allowed to wither away for the past five years.. but now he's in need of friends again the tone becomes more reasonable.

This is not a man of firm conviction, this is just another career politician. The only person who looked a genuine leader in this election was Sturgeon. Labour should learn from that.

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By *oo hot OP Couple
over a year ago

North West

There is a little irony in all this public discussion by former and current stalwarts about "what labour need to do to get re-elected. " steps to the right, steps to the left and a bit of straddling the centre ground are all being mooted.

BUT

This begs the question. Is it about Labour being popular for their convictions or is it about doing whatever they have to do in order to get into power again? It seems more like the latter at the moment and as such it seems more about wanting to be in power rather than having any real conviction.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"For me, Chuka Umunna and I'd like to see Stella Creasy step forward to or at least in a more senior position.

I saw that article. It was good. She had a really good campaign too. You're probably right on the experience but I think she could be a major player for Labour.

Definitely one to watch for the future I think.

I think you'll find she isn't Labour though, but the Co-operative party instead. They just stand as combined candidates in certain constituencies.

I'm not sure Labour rank and file is quite ready a member of the aristocracy as their leader either (she's more posh than Cameron ffs!)"

See I'm not from the school of "posh=out of touch and not leadership material".

She's always come across very well to me (but then I don't vote labour, partly because of the sexism and machismo of their Union backing)

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By *oo hot OP Couple
over a year ago

North West

They are coming out in droves to distance themselves from red Ed and his left wing ideology. Words that I have not heard for years coming out of Labour hot shots...

Aspiration, ambition, wealth... W T F?

They are not going to win Scotland back with that message but it might work in parts of England. Not much said about immigration though. That is what has cost them a lot of votes in the north of England.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It seems Dan Jarvis is not putting his name forward for the leadership of the Labour Party. He has cited family reasons as his reasons.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"They are coming out in droves to distance themselves from red Ed and his left wing ideology. Words that I have not heard for years coming out of Labour hot shots...

Aspiration, ambition, wealth... W T F?

Its quite apparent that you are not a labour party supporter and have conservative _iews on life and politics.

It is clear that the great British public (so far as first past the post elections are concerned) do not want a radical left wing government. That said I do not believe Ed Milliband was that far to the left.

Most people agree that innovation, risk taking and general business activity are a component of the holistic economical wealth of the nation. However it struck me yesterday watching those hero's and heroines walking past the cenotaph, most in their nineties, what their opinions are on the bed room tax, food banks and the state of the health and education systems, would be.

Wealth creators should be encouraged to do their thing and be rewarded accordingly but we need to ensure those truly in need are cared for in a inclusive way. Easier said than done I know but lest we forget?

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By *oo hot OP Couple
over a year ago

North West

"..........

Its quite apparent that you are not a labour party supporter and have conservative _iews on life and politics.

I dont disagree with any of that, other than Blair, Darling and other leading Labour lights have pretty much laid the blame for the defeat firmly at the feet of Milliband and the direction that he took the Labour Party.

I do have an interest in politics generally because I have lived and experienced the era's of the "sick man of europe" and the three day week. I lived and was a temporary victim of the changes that Thatcherism brought us and I prospered under years of John major and Tony Blair. I find the whole mix not just interesting, but fascinating - simply because I love Great Britain and how we are as a nation.

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"They are coming out in droves to distance themselves from red Ed and his left wing ideology. Words that I have not heard for years coming out of Labour hot shots...

Aspiration, ambition, wealth... W T F?

Its quite apparent that you are not a labour party supporter and have conservative _iews on life and politics.

As you mention those war hero's in their 90's walking past the cenotaph i would also like to know what their _iews are on the EU?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"They are coming out in droves to distance themselves from red Ed and his left wing ideology. Words that I have not heard for years coming out of Labour hot shots...

Aspiration, ambition, wealth... W T F?

Its quite apparent that you are not a labour party supporter and have conservative _iews on life and politics.

As you mention those war hero's in their 90's walking past the cenotaph i would also like to know what their _iews are on the EU?

They fought for our country to be a free country, independent, and for the right to be able to govern ourselves, which is increasingly being given away in spades by our politicians to Brussels and the EU. This is not the will of the people, and the people will decide in a referendum, something which Labour are no doubt still opposed to. "
I cannot speak for them but I would hazard a guess and say they would think that anything of a peaceful and democratic nature that stops European countries from going to war with one and other cannot be such a bad thing?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"..........

Its quite apparent that you are not a labour party supporter and have conservative _iews on life and politics.

What I am most intruiged about now is where the next Labour administration is going to position itself and how it see's itself as being able to be a champion of the socialist vote that is now split four ways."
I too have experienced the varying economic cycles of the country and have never had the misfortune to have been unemployed. I have a great standard of living and I am not ashamed of that. I pay my taxes (just done it and paid the bill) which is probably more than my dad earned in the last ten years of his working life but I don't begrudge it because I can afford it and will happily pay to a system that supports those less fortunate than me.

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"They are coming out in droves to distance themselves from red Ed and his left wing ideology. Words that I have not heard for years coming out of Labour hot shots...

Aspiration, ambition, wealth... W T F?

Its quite apparent that you are not a labour party supporter and have conservative _iews on life and politics.

As you mention those war hero's in their 90's walking past the cenotaph i would also like to know what their _iews are on the EU?

They fought for our country to be a free country, independent, and for the right to be able to govern ourselves, which is increasingly being given away in spades by our politicians to Brussels and the EU. This is not the will of the people, and the people will decide in a referendum, something which Labour are no doubt still opposed to. I cannot speak for them but I would hazard a guess and say they would think that anything of a peaceful and democratic nature that stops European countries from going to war with one and other cannot be such a bad thing?"

The EU democratic, thats a laugh.

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By *exymatcplMan
over a year ago

doncaster

Milliband wasnt left enough for me I want SNP left

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"They are coming out in droves to distance themselves from red Ed and his left wing ideology. Words that I have not heard for years coming out of Labour hot shots...

Aspiration, ambition, wealth... W T F?

Its quite apparent that you are not a labour party supporter and have conservative _iews on life and politics.

As you mention those war hero's in their 90's walking past the cenotaph i would also like to know what their _iews are on the EU?

They fought for our country to be a free country, independent, and for the right to be able to govern ourselves, which is increasingly being given away in spades by our politicians to Brussels and the EU. This is not the will of the people, and the people will decide in a referendum, something which Labour are no doubt still opposed to. I cannot speak for them but I would hazard a guess and say they would think that anything of a peaceful and democratic nature that stops European countries from going to war with one and other cannot be such a bad thing?

The EU democratic, thats a laugh.

And as for promoting peace in Europe, seems to be having the opposite effect in Ukraine who i've no doubt the EU would like to add to its list of countries, Putin may have other ideas about letting that happen....."
Can you vote for your MEP? The system of proportional representation in the European parliament is far more democratic than the process we have just gone through?

Please name me one piece of legislation passed by the European parliament that has place the sovereign right of self government in jeopardy?

As for the Ukraine I agree a tougher response should have been give to the annexation of Crimea but what has Putin got to do with a united and democratic Europe? He is a fascist who is from the old school and if we take the world cup of Russia he will not be expanding further

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By *arry247Couple
over a year ago

Wakefield

Both Labour and Conservative are dying parties as no one believes a word either of their candidates say.

It is not too late for both of those parties to revive by fielding candidates who people will believe.

The only way to do that is to forget party lines and put the public first

Playing the blame game only reinforces the opinion that all politicians lie, Nicola Sturgeon is popular because people think she believes in what she says.

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

"They are coming out in droves to distance themselves from red Ed and his left wing ideology. Words that I have not heard for years coming out of Labour hot shots...

Aspiration, ambition, wealth... W T F?

Its quite apparent that you are not a labour party supporter and have conservative _iews on life and politics.

As you mention those war hero's in their 90's walking past the cenotaph i would also like to know what their _iews are on the EU?

They fought for our country to be a free country, independent, and for the right to be able to govern ourselves, which is increasingly being given away in spades by our politicians to Brussels and the EU. This is not the will of the people, and the people will decide in a referendum, something which Labour are no doubt still opposed to. I cannot speak for them but I would hazard a guess and say they would think that anything of a peaceful and democratic nature that stops European countries from going to war with one and other cannot be such a bad thing?

The EU democratic, thats a laugh.

Well anyone who supports Puttin over Ukraine must be right.

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

"Milliband wasnt left enough for me I want SNP left"

Then say goodbye to Labour getting power for a generation and hello to years of Tory rule

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

"Both Labour and Conservative are dying parties as no one believes a word either of their candidates say.

I do, just not every word. Who's words do you believe?

It is not too late for both of those parties to revive by fielding candidates who people will believe.

The only way to do that is to forget party lines and put the public first

Playing the blame game only reinforces the opinion that all politicians lie, Nicola Sturgeon is popular because people think she believes in what she says.

But does she? Whilst campaigning on a platform of an end to austerity she was putting forward an economic policy for Scotland that is more austere than the Tory one.

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"They are coming out in droves to distance themselves from red Ed and his left wing ideology. Words that I have not heard for years coming out of Labour hot shots...

Aspiration, ambition, wealth... W T F?

Its quite apparent that you are not a labour party supporter and have conservative _iews on life and politics.

As you mention those war hero's in their 90's walking past the cenotaph i would also like to know what their _iews are on the EU?

They fought for our country to be a free country, independent, and for the right to be able to govern ourselves, which is increasingly being given away in spades by our politicians to Brussels and the EU. This is not the will of the people, and the people will decide in a referendum, something which Labour are no doubt still opposed to. I cannot speak for them but I would hazard a guess and say they would think that anything of a peaceful and democratic nature that stops European countries from going to war with one and other cannot be such a bad thing?

The EU democratic, thats a laugh.

And as for promoting peace in Europe, seems to be having the opposite effect in Ukraine who i've no doubt the EU would like to add to its list of countries, Putin may have other ideas about letting that happen.....Can you vote for your MEP? The system of proportional representation in the European parliament is far more democratic than the process we have just gone through?

Please name me one piece of legislation passed by the European parliament that has place the sovereign right of self government in jeopardy?

Yes i can vote for my MEP, but the people of europe have zero say in how the EU commision is selected or the EU president for that matter. There is no one piece of paper you asked for about self governance but several EU treaties have been passed by politicians without consent of the people first in referendums, if the people would like to accept them or not. Maastricht treaty, Lisbon treaty, and the list goes on. With each treaty more powers have been handed over to Brussels, some war veterans must be turning in their graves. Its clear the EU wants closer political union to meddle in more and more of our own affairs, when really it should be a trade agreement and nothing more.

Now onto Putin, was'nt it the people in Kiev waving their EU flags about, poking the russian bear, before they outed the pro russian leader and installed a pro EU leader instead? Did the EU encourage the people in Ukraine? Did they really think Putin would take that lying down? Poke the russian bear at your peril, Ukraine are lucky to just get away with losing crimea. The EU is also stoking up resentment and bad feeling in Greece right now, and the rise of Front national in France in the european elections, hardly a model for peace now is it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"They are coming out in droves to distance themselves from red Ed and his left wing ideology. Words that I have not heard for years coming out of Labour hot shots...

Aspiration, ambition, wealth... W T F?

Its quite apparent that you are not a labour party supporter and have conservative _iews on life and politics.

As you mention those war hero's in their 90's walking past the cenotaph i would also like to know what their _iews are on the EU?

They fought for our country to be a free country, independent, and for the right to be able to govern ourselves, which is increasingly being given away in spades by our politicians to Brussels and the EU. This is not the will of the people, and the people will decide in a referendum, something which Labour are no doubt still opposed to. I cannot speak for them but I would hazard a guess and say they would think that anything of a peaceful and democratic nature that stops European countries from going to war with one and other cannot be such a bad thing?

The EU democratic, thats a laugh.

And as for promoting peace in Europe, seems to be having the opposite effect in Ukraine who i've no doubt the EU would like to add to its list of countries, Putin may have other ideas about letting that happen.....Can you vote for your MEP? The system of proportional representation in the European parliament is far more democratic than the process we have just gone through?

Please name me one piece of legislation passed by the European parliament that has place the sovereign right of self government in jeopardy?

So you cannot point to a single piece of legislation that places the right of self government in jeopardy?

Treaties are just that you can opt out if a nation state so desires and the UK does with regular monotony.

The queen and the royal family last time I looked were not the subject of a democratic mandate. Their succession is based on some obscure bloodline that has extremely accented Prussian origins.

The Western territories of the Ukraine have expressed a wish to be part of the EU although I will grant you the hysteria to depose Yanukovych was probably whipped up by that other great democracy the USA. For you information that's the democracy that shoots or beats people to death because of the colour of their skin.

Putin is a bully and a very diminutive man who has a problem with his stature. Even Yanukovych has now admitted the use of the Russian Bear was disproportional to the wishes of the Ukraine.

So I will say for all of its bureaucratic nonsensical actions the EU is on balance the right way to go as in the last 150 years most of the majors wars have either originated or in fact commence on European soils and the first clause of the treaty of Rome forbids war. I am sure those at the cenotaph yesterday and those who made the supreme sacrifice would align with the intention.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Just one other small point: if we had to have a referenda every time legislation was enacted governance would cease to exist! That's why in democratic societies we have elections!

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"Just one other small point: if we had to have a referenda every time legislation was enacted governance would cease to exist! That's why in democratic societies we have elections!"

EU treaties are not passed every other day as your post suggests. When a new EU treaty is put forward it should always go to the people in a referendum first before the politicians decide "whats best for us". Its ridiculous the people have not had a say since the 1970's on europe. Maybe Miliband deciding "he knew what was best for us" in the EU was part of his downfall and defeat in the general election.

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By *oo hot OP Couple
over a year ago

North West

".... snipped.... Maybe Miliband deciding "he knew what was best for us" in the EU was part of his downfall and defeat in the general election. "

I think that you may be right there. His performance on the Leaders QT was all about telling people to use their vote and make a choice. When put on the spot about choice in a referendum he said it was about "Leadership "

In other words I know better than you!

This would have cost him big time in the north of England. That and his refusal to accept any responsibility for the deficit.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Just one other small point: if we had to have a referenda every time legislation was enacted governance would cease to exist! That's why in democratic societies we have elections!

I didn't intimate that EU treaties were were passed every day far from it its a very rare occurrence.

The people have not had a say on the royal family since 1066!

This appears (on you behalf) to be a circular discussion. On one hand you seem to be saying that the people need to decide at every turn of events yet when the people of Ukraine express their democratic right to peaceful demonstrations against the Yanukovych regime because, mainly , its rotten corrupt Putin fed policies they are provoking the Russian bear?

You need to understand that those hero and heroines at the cenotaph yesterday fought and won against the likes of Putin and what he stands for. Due to their actions I can wave my union jack and EU flag proudly without the fear of repression.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I can't work out the relationship between David and Ed Miliband ! Watching his inter_iew , I reckon David will be coming back over at some point. He can't stand this time but could in the future. I'm not sure either of the Milibands were/are right for the job !

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

David will be back. We picked the wrong brother, or at least parts of the party did.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

David Milliband is not a contender for the leadership as he is no longer an elected MP.

While I appreciate that the leaders of some other parties (Greens and UKIP) aren't either, Labour are the official opposition and so the leader of the party is the leader of the opposition.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

I didn't suggest he'd be back tomorrow.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Just one other small point: if we had to have a referenda every time legislation was enacted governance would cease to exist! That's why in democratic societies we have elections!"
.

Errr no they only average about 30 to 40 bills per year of that there could be as little as 6 that might need publicly referencing, Switzerland manages it quite easily

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

"Just one other small point: if we had to have a referenda every time legislation was enacted governance would cease to exist! That's why in democratic societies we have elections!

Totally disagree. Why elect politicians to a parliament if you're going to put every decision that matters to a referendum. We elect politicians precisely to decide what's best for us. If we don't like what they say they are going to do don't vote for them. If you don't like what they have done vote them out at the next election. It's called a representative democracy.

And we have seen how much use referendum are at deciding things already. Scottish devolution hasn't gone away since the referendum on Scottish devolution, Changing the voting system hasn't gone away since the referendum on voting reform in 2011 and Europhobes won't go away after the 2017 referendum if it goes against them any more than the Europhiles will if it goes against them. And I'll remind you of this very thread in 2018 to prove my point.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

There is no such thing as labour or new labour anymore, they are just a watered down version of the conservatives and no party really gives a shit about the man or woman in the street anymore

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm so sad to be a Scottish labour man,I was really sick on Thursday.

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

"There is no such thing as labour or new labour anymore, they are just a watered down version of the conservatives and no party really gives a shit about the man or woman in the street anymore"

So what would you suggest is the solution to that problem then?

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"Just one other small point: if we had to have a referenda every time legislation was enacted governance would cease to exist! That's why in democratic societies we have elections!

I didn't intimate that EU treaties were were passed every day far from it its a very rare occurrence.

The people have not had a say on the royal family since 1066!

In my posts i was clearly talking about EU treaties, then you said every time legislation was anacted governance would cease to exist. How often do EU treaties come along, a referendum on each would hardly cease the process of governance. As someone else pointed out, the Swiss manage their country pretty well on regular referendums. Wondering why you bring the royal family up? No one cares about the royal family, but clearly a large chunk of the population do care if we should be part of the EU or not.

Ukraine did not get rid of their ex leader in a fair and democratic process such as a referendum or election, he was ousted in a coup, and by and large the demonstrations there were not peaceful either. So what legitimacy does the new Ukraine leader have apart from the backing of the EU and the USA?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Just one other small point: if we had to have a referenda every time legislation was enacted governance would cease to exist! That's why in democratic societies we have elections!

I didn't intimate that EU treaties were were passed every day far from it its a very rare occurrence.

The people have not had a say on the royal family since 1066!

Again your comments seem to be circular in content. However I mentioned the royal family as they provided the unelected head of state. You are of the opinion incorrectly, that the president and head of the council of ministers are appointed without consultation with member states representative who are elected by the vox pop. I would also reiterate that the election to the EU parliament is one of the most democratic processes in the free worlds in so far as PR is concerned. On these points your assertion that the EU is an undemocratic institution is not correct. You could argue as an organisation it is not the most efficient.

If you read my earlier post you would see I agreed that the UK, Germany and the US had a significant influence in the process that caused Yanukovych to hand over power. However that is no reason to invade a country as Putin has done. Peaceful, constructive and democratic process is the only way to oppose the _iews of those in power.

Clearly you think that the UK will be better off outside the EU. I think not mainly because of the Treaty of Rome and its stated intention of peace between member states. If the price to pay for that crucial and founding objective is that the EU has powers to change the noise emissions from vacs or the size so be it.

We agree to disagree!

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By *L RogueMan
over a year ago

London

Chuka Umunna has stepped forward and confirmed that he is running for Labour leader. Thoughts?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm OLD LABOUR not this bunch of middle class elitist workshy student tossers that call themselves Labour!

New Labour is just a re branded name like "Improved" or "more" you see on tins and packages.

They are a bunch of Marxist bastards who are like Nazi's without the racism.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I'm OLD LABOUR not this bunch of middle class elitist workshy student tossers that call themselves Labour!

New Labour is just a re branded name like "Improved" or "more" you see on tins and packages.

They are a bunch of Marxist bastards who are like Nazi's without the racism."

(

)

Oh, were you serious?

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

"I'm OLD LABOUR not this bunch of middle class elitist workshy student tossers that call themselves Labour!

New Labour is just a re branded name like "Improved" or "more" you see on tins and packages.

They are a bunch of Marxist bastards who are like Nazi's without the racism.

(

)

Oh, were you serious? "

I'm wondering the same. I always thought it was Old Labour who were the Marxist and New Labour who were the more centrist and acceptable version.

I also think, with a few exceptions such as Arthur Scargill et al, comparing either New or Old with Nazis is going a bit too far!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Chuka Umunna has stepped forward and confirmed that he is running for Labour leader. Thoughts? "

Has a long way to go to convince me he is anything other than a lightweight full or soundbites who when pressed on detail simply falls apart. Was deeply unimpressed with him during the election.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Hands up anyone who's ever read the communist manifesto or das kapital

... Even a few pages!

The fact that he's one of the most respected brains of the 19th century along with Weber and Engels and Freud.

I'm perfectly happy being a Marxist and I don't have any notion to round up Jews believe it or not

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Chuka Umunna has stepped forward and confirmed that he is running for Labour leader. Thoughts?

Has a long way to go to convince me he is anything other than a lightweight full or soundbites who when pressed on detail simply falls apart. Was deeply unimpressed with him during the election."

Nor has President Obama been a resounding success either. At the recent midterm elections, even his own party (Democrat) candidates wanted him to stay away.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Hands up anyone who's ever read the communist manifesto or das kapital

... Even a few pages!

The fact that he's one of the most respected brains of the 19th century along with Weber and Engels and Freud.

I'm perfectly happy being a Marxist and I don't have any notion to round up Jews believe it or not

I have, both. Wasn't persuaded by them, but I like to read something for myself before I dismiss it.

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By *anchestercubMan
over a year ago

manchester & NI

"Chuka Umunna has stepped forward and confirmed that he is running for Labour leader. Thoughts?

Has a long way to go to convince me he is anything other than a lightweight full or soundbites who when pressed on detail simply falls apart. Was deeply unimpressed with him during the election.

Nor has President Obama been a resounding success either. At the recent midterm elections, even his own party (Democrat) candidates wanted him to stay away."

What does one have to do with the other?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Hands up anyone who's ever read the communist manifesto or das kapital

... Even a few pages!

The fact that he's one of the most respected brains of the 19th century along with Weber and Engels and Freud.

I'm perfectly happy being a Marxist and I don't have any notion to round up Jews believe it or not

I have, both. Wasn't persuaded by them, but I like to read something for myself before I dismiss it. "
.

I ask that question alot.... Bearing in mind I hang around with a lot of lefties, your the first person in 15 years who's read it? It must be the most unpopular popular book in history!

Capitalisms fundamental instability to cannibalise itself is incompatible with human contentment.

Probably one of the most influential writings in history barring religious text.

And we roll it up into, "you Marxist fuckwit"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Hands up anyone who's ever read the communist manifesto or das kapital

... Even a few pages!

The fact that he's one of the most respected brains of the 19th century along with Weber and Engels and Freud.

I'm perfectly happy being a Marxist and I don't have any notion to round up Jews believe it or not

I have, both. Wasn't persuaded by them, but I like to read something for myself before I dismiss it. .

I ask that question alot.... Bearing in mind I hang around with a lot of lefties, your the first person in 15 years who's read it? It must be the most unpopular popular book in history!

Capitalisms fundamental instability to cannibalise itself is incompatible with human contentment.

Probably one of the most influential writings in history barring religious text.

And we roll it up into, "you Marxist fuckwit"

To be fair, I did a history degree so it would have been a bit remiss of me not to read it

But I read a lot of stuff that's not necessarily reflective of my political _iews anyway. People's theories and ideas and beliefs interest me even if I think they're wrong.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Hands up anyone who's ever read the communist manifesto or das kapital

... Even a few pages!

The fact that he's one of the most respected brains of the 19th century along with Weber and Engels and Freud.

I'm perfectly happy being a Marxist and I don't have any notion to round up Jews believe it or not

I have, both. Wasn't persuaded by them, but I like to read something for myself before I dismiss it. .

I ask that question alot.... Bearing in mind I hang around with a lot of lefties, your the first person in 15 years who's read it? It must be the most unpopular popular book in history!

Capitalisms fundamental instability to cannibalise itself is incompatible with human contentment.

Probably one of the most influential writings in history barring religious text.

And we roll it up into, "you Marxist fuckwit"

To be fair, I did a history degree so it would have been a bit remiss of me not to read it

But I read a lot of stuff that's not necessarily reflective of my political _iews anyway. People's theories and ideas and beliefs interest me even if I think they're wrong. "
.

Ahh that explains it lol.

To me I don't see anything political in anything Marx wrote.

He's certainly pro labour force but I never got a sense of politics from it.

The communist manifesto was obviously interpreted different by Vladimir Lenin but even marx himself said if that's Marxism then I'm not a Marxist.

He should have come up with the quote shit sticks, it would have been more apt

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

"Hands up anyone who's ever read the communist manifesto or das kapital

... Even a few pages!

The fact that he's one of the most respected brains of the 19th century along with Weber and Engels and Freud.

I'm perfectly happy being a Marxist and I don't have any notion to round up Jews believe it or not

I have, both. Wasn't persuaded by them, but I like to read something for myself before I dismiss it. .

I ask that question alot.... Bearing in mind I hang around with a lot of lefties, your the first person in 15 years who's read it? It must be the most unpopular popular book in history!

Capitalisms fundamental instability to cannibalise itself is incompatible with human contentment.

Probably one of the most influential writings in history barring religious text.

And we roll it up into, "you Marxist fuckwit"

Just for the record, I've never called anybody a Marxist fuckwit.

It's not my style of argument.

Unfortunately, and for the record, I've not read all of 'Das Kapital' or 'The Communist Manifesto' although I have tried both at various times (I just didn't inhale).

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Hands up anyone who's ever read the communist manifesto or das kapital

... Even a few pages!

The fact that he's one of the most respected brains of the 19th century along with Weber and Engels and Freud.

I'm perfectly happy being a Marxist and I don't have any notion to round up Jews believe it or not

I have, both. Wasn't persuaded by them, but I like to read something for myself before I dismiss it. .

I ask that question alot.... Bearing in mind I hang around with a lot of lefties, your the first person in 15 years who's read it? It must be the most unpopular popular book in history!

Capitalisms fundamental instability to cannibalise itself is incompatible with human contentment.

Probably one of the most influential writings in history barring religious text.

And we roll it up into, "you Marxist fuckwit"

Just for the record, I've never called anybody a Marxist fuckwit.

It's not my style of argument.

Unfortunately, and for the record, I've not read all of 'Das Kapital' or 'The Communist Manifesto' although I have tried both at various times (I just didn't inhale). "
.

No I didn't mean you mate, it was more in a general context of arguments and how it gets used.

There heavy reading, I like the guy and it took me a year to plough through it.

Ive moved on to Lee child's now anyhow, tripwire.... It's way more exciting

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Ahh that explains it lol.

To me I don't see anything political in anything Marx wrote.

He's certainly pro labour force but I never got a sense of politics from it.

The communist manifesto was obviously interpreted different by Vladimir Lenin but even marx himself said if that's Marxism then I'm not a Marxist.

He should have come up with the quote shit sticks, it would have been more apt"

I agree, but it's quite difficult to separate it from what it's been used to justify politically when you read it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Hands up anyone who's ever read the communist manifesto or das kapital

... Even a few pages!

The fact that he's one of the most respected brains of the 19th century along with Weber and Engels and Freud.

I'm perfectly happy being a Marxist and I don't have any notion to round up Jews believe it or not

I have read both and classify myself a Marxist. Why there is even a mention of rounding up Jews in the post is rather confusing. Marx was culturally Jewish, and the Nazis hated Marxists more than almost all other groups.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I hope anyone thinking or nominating Tristram Hunt was watching Question Time last night! Possibly the worst performance of any politician of any persuasion I have ever seen. Farage and Jeremy Hunt were literally laughing at him he was so inept. I thought Farage summed it up well, so far none of the Labour candidates who have thrown their hat in the ring have any chance of connecting with the British public.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

And Chuka Ummuna has dropped out. Probably sees the job as a poisoned chalice.

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By *enny PR9TV/TS
over a year ago

Southport

"And Chuka Ummuna has dropped out. Probably sees the job as a poisoned chalice."

May be he told a fib about being a straight guy on fab.

Jenny xxx

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"And Chuka Ummuna has dropped out. Probably sees the job as a poisoned chalice."
.

That doesn't surprise me, he's a lightweight but a bright lightweight.

The next prime minister of the labour party will be somebody we've never heard of.

It will take the Tories another five maybe eight years to self implode (like they always do).

The real unknown is the eu referendum outcome (personally I don't think we'll ever get one, just another Dave lie)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"And Chuka Ummuna has dropped out. Probably sees the job as a poisoned chalice..

That doesn't surprise me, he's a lightweight but a bright lightweight.

The next prime minister of the labour party will be somebody we've never heard of.

It will take the Tories another five maybe eight years to self implode (like they always do).

The real unknown is the eu referendum outcome (personally I don't think we'll ever get one, just another Dave lie)"

I'm sure he regrets offering it up in the manifesto.

As for Ummana, I suspect he will have a crack in the future, but like Tristram Hunt, both are incredibly lightweight and seem miles away from what Labour needs right now.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"And Chuka Ummuna has dropped out. Probably sees the job as a poisoned chalice."

And he'd be right, it IS a poisoned chalice at the moment. I don't think it will end up being any of the obvious choices.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'd like to see Andy Burman lead the Labour party. I have a feeling he has what it takes to transform them, having watched his actions and listened to him, over the last few years.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm of the opinion that unless Labour completely reinvents itself it's unlikely to win another election for a long while. It's not enough to move left or move to the centre. It's not even going to be enough to front it with a populist comedian. It needs a total rethink.

Why? Because up in Scotland it needs to move left, towards a more Scandanavian Socialist model, whilst down south it needs to move right, back to urgh Blairism

(excuse me while I spit out the bitter taste in my mouth)

I can't see how it can move left and right at the same time. It may need to support a bid for Scottish independence, then it can fight two wars separately.

Personally, I believe that the old days of left and right are over. The biggest issue now is between representation and non-representation i.e. proportional representation, local power, local responsibility, etc... vs. first past the post, distant power ruling over us, with no local accountability. But that's just my 2p

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"And Chuka Ummuna has dropped out. Probably sees the job as a poisoned chalice."

He's reported as having said it's because of the level of intrusion into his personal life, presumably by Murdoch's hacks.

I can well understand this. How many of us would pass that sort of scrutiny?

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By *ratty_DamselWoman
over a year ago

Greater London

"far left long gone and would NEVER win another election in this era - the only way now is the 'middle ground' but with overriding socialist principles in my opinion"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"And Chuka Ummuna has dropped out. Probably sees the job as a poisoned chalice."

Such a shame. Would have loved to see him become leader as it would have meant that they'd lose again in 2020.

I wonder if the Labour Party have conducted some research behind the scenes on each candidate and have quietly informed him that he's perhaps not popular with the electorate.

He makes my skin crawl more than Ed Milliband did, because he just comes across as a misleading, lying weasel who always distorts facts for his own political gain, and not just little known facts at that. Some of the lies he spits out are so blatant.

I wouldn't trust the guy as far as I could comfortably spit him.

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By *histler21Man
over a year ago

Ipswich

I'm struggling to visualise any Labour politician. Let alone as leader of the party.

Apart from Diane Abbot - as I'm a _iewer of the This Week programme...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I'm struggling to visualise any Labour politician. Let alone as leader of the party.

Apart from Diane Abbot - as I'm a _iewer of the This Week programme..."

...with hashtag man on the left Alan 'AJ' Johnson and hashtag sadmanontrain Micheal 'Choo choo' Portilo.

Brilliant programme. Missed it last night though

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The rumour mill is working overtime, will be interesting to see if there are any Umanna stories in the Sunday press. Must be miserable knowing everything you have ever done can be dragged up.

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By *anchestercubMan
over a year ago

manchester & NI

"And Chuka Ummuna has dropped out. Probably sees the job as a poisoned chalice.

He's reported as having said it's because of the level of intrusion into his personal life, presumably by Murdoch's hacks.

I can well understand this. How many of us would pass that sort of scrutiny?"

His mother was being followed home by reporters and apparently it was happening to other family members too.

That would make me very unsettled.

The right wingers no doubt want to throw as much muck as possible straight out of the gate.

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By *anchestercubMan
over a year ago

manchester & NI

Keir Starmer is now being mooted, people are calling on him to stand.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"And Chuka Ummuna has dropped out. Probably sees the job as a poisoned chalice.

He's reported as having said it's because of the level of intrusion into his personal life, presumably by Murdoch's hacks.

I can well understand this. How many of us would pass that sort of scrutiny?

His mother was being followed home by reporters and apparently it was happening to other family members too.

That would make me very unsettled.

The right wingers no doubt want to throw as much muck as possible straight out of the gate. "

I would imagine he's had as much grief from the more left-wing elements of his own Party who think he's too slick and blairite. I don't blame him for backing out.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Keir Starmer is now being mooted, people are calling on him to stand. "

Could be an interesting one if he does stand. I can see the appeal of someone not associated with the election defeat since he's only been elected a week ago.

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By *igeiaWoman
over a year ago

Bristol

"And Chuka Ummuna has dropped out. Probably sees the job as a poisoned chalice.

He's reported as having said it's because of the level of intrusion into his personal life, presumably by Murdoch's hacks.

I can well understand this. How many of us would pass that sort of scrutiny?

His mother was being followed home by reporters and apparently it was happening to other family members too.

That would make me very unsettled.

The right wingers no doubt want to throw as much muck as possible straight out of the gate.

I would imagine he's had as much grief from the more left-wing elements of his own Party who think he's too slick and blairite. I don't blame him for backing out."

Or (and this may be me being cynical) he's assuming it might take more than one more election cycle before there's a realistic chance of becoming PM so is hedging his begs for a future bid.

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By *anchestercubMan
over a year ago

manchester & NI

"Keir Starmer is now being mooted, people are calling on him to stand.

Could be an interesting one if he does stand. I can see the appeal of someone not associated with the election defeat since he's only been elected a week ago."

He's good at debating and eloquent, has a record to run on that's outside of politics.

You can't get less 'Westminster bubble' than someone who's only been there a week.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"The rumour mill is working overtime, will be interesting to see if there are any Umanna stories in the Sunday press. Must be miserable knowing everything you have ever done can be dragged up."

Sadly, that's the world we live in now.

I'm already on record that I believe we have 10 years of Tories now. Not something I particularly welcome but that's the way it is and will be so I'll do what I can to mitigate the worst and make the best of the best.

Labour will probably have to split and have a separate party in Scotland to make any sense of the need to be further left in Scotland and middle right in England.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I'm already on record that I believe we have 10 years of Tories now. Not something I particularly welcome but that's the way it is and will be so I'll do what I can to mitigate the worst and make the best of the best."

Lickety... never underestimate the Tory's ability to shoot themselves in the foot. Whilst Labour may not win the next election... the Tories could well lose it

To be fair though... I think they're both as bad as each other... so I wouldn't really want to see another Labour government anyway. I'm keen to see a new progressive party emerge which pioneers social justice without pandering to social prejudice and an Orwellian super-sized state

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By *erbyDalesCplCouple
over a year ago

Derbyshire

Lickety... never underestimate the Tory's ability to shoot themselves in the foot. "

Or the electorate's capacity to believe in a message of hope.

5 years ago everyone said the next election was already lost, but I still believe that David Milliband would have done enough to win.

Terrible news about Chukka though, if we are really just down to Burnham or Cooper, Lickety might just be right.

Mr.ddc

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"I hope anyone thinking or nominating Tristram Hunt was watching Question Time last night! Possibly the worst performance of any politician of any persuasion I have ever seen. Farage and Jeremy Hunt were literally laughing at him he was so inept. I thought Farage summed it up well, so far none of the Labour candidates who have thrown their hat in the ring have any chance of connecting with the British public."

One thing i will say for Tristram Hunt on Question time last night, at least he had the common sense to admit Labour overspent during its 13 years in power, which was met with laughs and applause from the audience. I did'nt applaud i just laughed.

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"And Chuka Ummuna has dropped out. Probably sees the job as a poisoned chalice."

Funny that this thread has lasted longer than his leadership bid, lol.

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By *oo hot OP Couple
over a year ago

North West

So all the Labour hopefuls (well, the one's who are left) are now closet conservatives. Listen to the words... Aspiration, self improvement, supporting business... And more....

Personally, I see a rather long period of decline for Labour as they don't really have a purpose anymore. Add to that the current calibre of Leadership hopefully that are at best "featherweight" and the future does not really look that good at all for them.

I wonder in fact if we might actually see a major fracturing of the Labour Party. Between those on the one side who still yearn for a more left leaning socialist mantra and who bow to the whipping boys of the Unions. The other side being the more Blairite centre left of which all of the current hopefuls seem to be supporting.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

UKIP finished second and third in many places in the north. The conservatives won't win in the north, but UKIP can. If the northern conservatives are clever they will tactically vote UKIP to get rid of Labour.

I hate Labour for what they have done to this country, but I dislike the Conservatives even more. I believe many people in the North feel the same as me.

I believe the UKIP can unite the northers who vote labour because they dislike the torries and those who vote tory because they dislike labour.

UKIP to govern the north in a northern parliament.

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By *oo hot OP Couple
over a year ago

North West

"UKIP finished second and third in many places in the north. The conservatives won't win in the north, but UKIP can. If the northern conservatives are clever they will tactically vote UKIP to get rid of Labour.

I hate Labour for what they have done to this country, but I dislike the Conservatives even more. I believe many people in the North feel the same as me.

I believe the UKIP can unite the northers who vote labour because they dislike the torries and those who vote tory because they dislike labour.

UKIP to govern the north in a northern parliament."

UKIP will not be able to do, or achieve anything until they become more than the one man cult that they are at the moment. There is little talent other than NF and their one MP and until that changes, my guess is that we have just seen the best that UKIP will ever be.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Politicians will always tell you what they think you want to hear, regardless of party!.

Any party that dares to say the unsayable is derided as loons!.

If labour break away from their roots they may well shoot themselves in the foot

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"So all the Labour hopefuls (well, the one's who are left) are now closet conservatives. Listen to the words... Aspiration, self improvement, supporting business... And more....

They should just appoint Len McCluskey as leader and be done with it, obvious he pulls all the strings, but then they will become even more irrelevant than they already are.

Plus who would want to take over Scotland now Jim Murphy has gone, i don't see anyone stepping up to the plate?

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

It will be interesting to see how things work out not just for the Labour Party but the whole of British politics. The reality is is that British elections are won and lost on the centre ground. This is shown by the fact that the coalition received almost 45% of votes cast. It might well have received even more if it had actually been possible to vote for the coalition.

A lot will depend on what happens over the next 5 years and what the result of the next election in 5 years time will be but I can see a possible realignment with Ukip and the more right wing Conservatives on one side and the Liberal Unionist wing of the Conservatives party and the LibDems (with possibly some right wing Blairite defectors from Labour) on the other. I don't see Labour disappearing all together but, unless it can hold the middle ground more consistently, I don't see it getting into power again.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It will be interesting to see how things work out not just for the Labour Party but the whole of British politics. The reality is is that British elections are won and lost on the centre ground. This is shown by the fact that the coalition received almost 45% of votes cast. It might well have received even more if it had actually been possible to vote for the coalition.

Politics is like football my friend!

Your only as good as your last game and all the shit you've done in the past or greatness will be forgotten in a heartbeat on the promise of another tenner in the pocket!.

Labour will get back in not through their improvement but through Tory failure.

I seem to remember people saying the Tories were finished a few years back, but they didn't foresee labours ability to shoot themselves in the head.

Give the Tories some time and a bit of rope and see what they do with it

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So all the Labour hopefuls (well, the one's who are left) are now closet conservatives. Listen to the words... Aspiration, self improvement, supporting business... And more....

They should just appoint Len McCluskey as leader and be done with it, obvious he pulls all the strings, but then they will become even more irrelevant than they already are.

Plus who would want to take over Scotland now Jim Murphy has gone, i don't see anyone stepping up to the plate?"

Kezia Dugdale is supposedly going to be new leader, you have no idea just how idiotic she is, she gets ragdolled regularly by Sturgeon at firt ministers questions. Her dad even takes the piss out of her on twitter for it.

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"So all the Labour hopefuls (well, the one's who are left) are now closet conservatives. Listen to the words... Aspiration, self improvement, supporting business... And more....

They should just appoint Len McCluskey as leader and be done with it, obvious he pulls all the strings, but then they will become even more irrelevant than they already are.

Plus who would want to take over Scotland now Jim Murphy has gone, i don't see anyone stepping up to the plate?

You are right i have no idea how idiotic she is because i have no idea who she is? Honestly never heard of her, lol.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Is Yvette Cooper - Ed Balls by the backdoor

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

Politics is like football my friend!

Your only as good as your last game and all the shit you've done in the past or greatness will be forgotten in a heartbeat on the promise of another tenner in the pocket!.

Labour will get back in not through their improvement but through Tory failure.

I seem to remember people saying the Tories were finished a few years back, but they didn't foresee labours ability to shoot themselves in the head.

Give the Tories some time and a bit of rope and see what they do with it

I'm already a little concerned about the attacks on the BBC and, although I don't doubt the motivation, I'm more than worried by some of the anti terror stuff being proposed.

However, unless the economy goes badly wrong, I don't see Labour being able to capitalise anything on those two points. Labour also was complaining about BBC bias and they are even worse on civil liberties than the right wing of the Conservative party. Only a realigned truly liberal movement can affectively oppose these trends.

I guess I should add IMHO.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I hate Labour for what they have done to this country, but I dislike the Conservatives even more. I believe many people in the North feel the same as me.

I believe the UKIP can unite the northers who vote labour because they dislike the torries and those who vote tory because they dislike labour.

UKIP to govern the north in a northern parliament.

The SNP was a 'one man cult' with Alex Salmond. Now look at them!

Rome was not built in a day.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Politics is like football my friend!

Your only as good as your last game and all the shit you've done in the past or greatness will be forgotten in a heartbeat on the promise of another tenner in the pocket!.

Labour will get back in not through their improvement but through Tory failure.

I seem to remember people saying the Tories were finished a few years back, but they didn't foresee labours ability to shoot themselves in the head.

Give the Tories some time and a bit of rope and see what they do with it

I'm already a little concerned about the attacks on the BBC and, although I don't doubt the motivation, I'm more than worried by some of the anti terror stuff being proposed.

I guess I should add IMHO."
.

Yeah that controlling extremism, when Dave says that what he really means is people like bank protesters or fracking protesters or Tory protesters, just like when Tony promised that anti terrorist laws would only be used on terrorists but then the very next month the old guy heckling him at the party conference was arrested under those very same anti terrorist laws!!.

I hope the labour party so disintegrate, it might finally give the people a viable alternative opposition as in reality there is not alot of difference between Tory and labour!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think the big problem with Labour is... if you put your unthinking loyalty to the party to one side... why the heck would you vote for them? I guess the only real answer to that is that they're not as bad as the Tories... but two wrongs don't make a right. Isn't it time we had a real choice in this country? I think I've had it with both parties in equal measure... Maggie Thatcher and Tony Blair put paid to that

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

I hate Labour for what they have done to this country, but I dislike the Conservatives even more. I believe many people in the North feel the same as me.

I believe the UKIP can unite the northers who vote labour because they dislike the torries and those who vote tory because they dislike labour.

UKIP to govern the north in a northern parliament.

The SNP was a 'one man cult' with Alex Salmond. Now look at them!

Rome was not built in a day.

Still a cult but with a few more members. It'll be interesting to see how many renew their membership.

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

"I think the big problem with Labour is... if you put your unthinking loyalty to the party to one side... why the heck would you vote for them? I guess the only real answer to that is that they're not as bad as the Tories... but two wrongs don't make a right. Isn't it time we had a real choice in this country? I think I've had it with both parties in equal measure... Maggie Thatcher and Tony Blair put paid to that

If you really think the people of Britain are going to ever vote a party to the left of Labour you are living in cloud cuckoo land. The Conservatives got 37%, LibDems 8% and UKIP 12%. That's a massive 57% voting for centre or right of centre parties. When will the left learn, Britain does not want your solutions.

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By *oo hot OP Couple
over a year ago

North West

Indeed.

It amuses those with loud voices simply assume that Britain is in need of a socialist revolution. Fortunately, the majority know all too well that we have it well cushy in this country and that no revolution is needed thank you very much.

Even our "austerity" is "light touch" compared to what is happening in Greece, Italy, Spain and Portugal.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

It turns out Tristram Hunt won't be standing.

I heard Keir Starmer on Newsnight yesterday. OK, he's new to Parliament but he spoke well (as you'd expect), made a lot of sense and could well be a serious contender next time round (2018?)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm not really fussed about left wing or right wing ideas, so long as they work well are efficient and deliver for the majority!

Of course I favour a left wing philosophy because I understand the weak link of industry is the human element.

I like the way you both think nobody in this country believes in socialist philosophy except when the banks need bailing or network rail or the nuclear industry or arms manufacturers or the car industry...... Oh yeah we like socialism when we're failing, we just dislike it in the good times?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

In my opinion, many people dislike the torries but vote for them because they dislike the labour party even more and they don't want the SNP running england. Also, people dislike labour but vote for them because they will not vote tory.

In a REAL democracy people vote for the party that they want rather than voting for it because they dislike the other party more.

We don't really have a democracy in this country. Our party political system is largely controlled by the people who fund the two big parties: rich individuals (finance conservatives) and rich trade unions (finance labour).

I wish powerful individuals and trade unions would leave politics alone, but they won't because of the benefits they are likely to receive if they end up controlling it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 20/05/15 18:12:59]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Indeed.

Even our "austerity" is "light touch" compared to what is happening in Greece, Italy, Spain and Portugal."

How can Britain have it "cushy" when we are broke? Our economy is based on debt rather than saving. Lets suppose a poor man borrows £1,000,000. He is still poor because he has to give it back!

We are broke and other countries are not. Look at Australia, they have a very low national debt and the last time they were in recession was about 24 years ago. Australia is a country with lower national debt and high national savings. Australia is developing and will continue to develop.

savings = investment = wealthy

large debt = bankrupt = poor

Britain is just living off a credit card and that can't last forever.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Lol which part of my post gave you the illusion that I'm a left winger... or a right winger. As far as I'm concerned our 2 party democracy has only ever been 1 party away from a dictatorship... and that's now looking dangerously close to happening. Judging by some posts on here a lot of you would rather we lived somewhere like Zimbabwe where David Cameron could rule over us for 80 years

For democracy to work you've got to be able to vote someone out. We need a viable alternative to the Tories... and I'm not talking about UKIP or the BNP

We also need an opposition to hold power to account. All you Tories having wet dreams about destroying the Labour party really don't get what it is your looking to destroy.

Personally I prefer the idea of coalitions in which both left wing and right wing people are involved. Indeed, I don't really see the point of the seperate wings any more. I had looked forward to the green voice, for example, being involved in some kind of decision making, although I'd never want to see them in power as they're total nut cakes

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

[Removed by poster at 20/05/15 20:01:42]

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

"I'm not really fussed about left wing or right wing ideas, so long as they work well are efficient and deliver for the majority!

Of course I favour a left wing philosophy because I understand the weak link of industry is the human element.

With the sole exception of the banks I hardly ever think it's a good idea to subsidise any industry. As for the banks, they are a fundamental part of the economy and it would have been catastrophic if they had been allowed to fail. That being said the way they have actually been bailed out seems to have created a lot of very rich bankers.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I'm not really fussed about left wing or right wing ideas, so long as they work well are efficient and deliver for the majority!

Of course I favour a left wing philosophy because I understand the weak link of industry is the human element.

You are economically illiterate if you believe that it was a good idea to bail out the banks.

In the 1990's, John Major let Barings Bank fail and me moved on.

Japan bailed it's banks out in the 1990's and their banking system is still dysfunctional. Japan has a staggering amount of debt and it's currency is worthless. Japan is a dead man walking. Japan is finished.

Yes, for a short time, it would been painful to allow the banks to fail. However, it's better to allow the banks to go bankrupt than Britain go bankrupt.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I'm not really fussed about left wing or right wing ideas, so long as they work well are efficient and deliver for the majority!

Of course I favour a left wing philosophy because I understand the weak link of industry is the human element.

You are economically illiterate if you believe that it was a good idea to bail out the banks.

In the 1990's, John Major let Barings Bank fail and me moved on.

Yes, for a short time, it would been painful to allow the banks to fail. However, it's better to allow the banks to go bankrupt than Britain go bankrupt."

The systemic risk faced at the time was that all the banks would fail together due to their inter dependence. Govt was faced with the choice of stepping in or the public simply not being able to withdraw funds at the cashpoint machines leading to a mass panic. The loosening of regulation leading to banks being reliant on the wholesale funding market was wholly irresponsible, and the challenges faces us all had a series of the largest banks failed would have been unprecedented. History will judge Darling and Brown, but I suspect they had little choice but to do what they did.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I'm not really fussed about left wing or right wing ideas, so long as they work well are efficient and deliver for the majority!

Of course I favour a left wing philosophy because I understand the weak link of industry is the human element.

You are economically illiterate if you believe that it was a good idea to bail out the banks.

In the 1990's, John Major let Barings Bank fail and me moved on.

Yes, for a short time, it would been painful to allow the banks to fail. However, it's better to allow the banks to go bankrupt than Britain go bankrupt.

Yes, the banks became more interconnect than ever before. However, when they were all making money, I never heard them complain. When they started losing money they just nationalised the losses.

Yes, there would have been a big panic and yes it would have been devastating for a few years. However, Japan tried bailing out the banks and it's obviously failed. It's better just to get it all over with an let them go bankrupt. It's better the banks go bankrupt than Britain go bankrupt. We are bankrupt and our currency is worthless. All that inflation from the printing of money has created asset price inflation.

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By *oo hot OP Couple
over a year ago

North West

"I'm not really fussed about left wing or right wing ideas, so long as they work well are efficient and deliver for the majority!

Of course I favour a left wing philosophy because I understand the weak link of industry is the human element.

You are economically illiterate if you believe that it was a good idea to bail out the banks.

In the 1990's, John Major let Barings Bank fail and me moved on.

Yes, for a short time, it would been painful to allow the banks to fail. However, it's better to allow the banks to go bankrupt than Britain go bankrupt."

You know very well that economics is more smoke and mirrors than cast iron fact. If there was a single economic dream ticket, the whole world would be on it.

Best not to call someone economically illiterate because they, like 99% of the population think differently than you. No one really gives a shit anyway on a Swingers Forum.

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By *oo hot OP Couple
over a year ago

North West

"I'm not really fussed about left wing or right wing ideas, so long as they work well are efficient and deliver for the majority!

Of course I favour a left wing philosophy because I understand the weak link of industry is the human element.

You are economically illiterate if you believe that it was a good idea to bail out the banks.

In the 1990's, John Major let Barings Bank fail and me moved on.

Yes, for a short time, it would been painful to allow the banks to fail. However, it's better to allow the banks to go bankrupt than Britain go bankrupt.

You are of course 100% correct.

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By *oo hot OP Couple
over a year ago

North West

And on that bombshell.......

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