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Trussle Trust / food banks

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By *oodmess OP   Man
over a year ago

yumsville

This is on the back of the Trust being mentioned on another thread so I thought I'd google.

In a nut shell it has raised a few questions as 900,000 people using food banks in by no means a good marker for a Govt to score it's success by. But the person asking for information from Companies house has gleaned this:

Chris Mould - Labour MP is exec chairman to the trussle trust.

"Over the last two years (2011-12) Mould and his wife have received over £150,000 in wages, salaries, emoluments, consultancy fees and rent payments from Trussell Trust.

The rent payments go to Mould's wife who bills the Trust for office space she leases to it in Salisbury.

Mould has also set up a private company, Chris Mould Limited, through which Trussell Trust has paid him more than £30,000 over the last two years, for "management consultancy" services.

A further sum of £1700 was paid last year to "Chris Mould Support", "for the support of Chris Mould in support of his role as trustee"

Nearly two thirds (over £600,000) of Trussell's income is currently being spent on staff wages, etc.

Since the Trussell frontline workers are all unpaid volunteers, that sounds like an awful lot of money on the wages bill."

Any views on this? Is the Trust being used as 'propaganda'? Contacts for the trust could easily be dispersed among Labour run councils? (I am not saying people are not in need.

I googled "The Shaftesbury Partnership" it was at the top of the second page. Open democracy net.

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By *anchestercubMan
over a year ago

manchester & NI

He is most certainly not a Labour MP - where did you read that?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Charities arestill run as businesses.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

Even with an army of volunteers there are still staff costs, volunteer expenses, offices and storage facilities to pay for.

I don't know about Mould and what he offers but I know Trussel had to grow rapidly, expand their model, pay for research, evaluation and the reports to show the need and how they are meeting it.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


"He is most certainly not a Labour MP - where did you read that? "

Nor has he ever been.

Mould's CV

Career 2010-present: partner, the Shaftesbury Partnership; 2007-present; director, the Trussell Trust (executive chairman since 2011); 2004-10: independent consultant, Transformation and Strategic Change; 2001-03: chief executive, Centrex (the central police training and development authority); 1992-2001: district general manager, Salisbury health authority and chief executive, Salisbury healthcare NHS trust; 1988-92: general manager then chief executive, Community and Mental Health Services, South Bedfordshire; 1982-88: NHS planner and hospital manager, London and Southend.

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By *oodmess OP   Man
over a year ago

yumsville


"He is most certainly not a Labour MP - where did you read that? "

It read as if he was an MP, I think the letter was written to their MP, questioning the expenses of the trust itself

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This is the modern way of doing 'charity'.

Pay 'competitive' salaries (this really means London weighted, highly attractive salary). Use your govt contacts to gain contracts.

Charge consultancy fees for your 'services' (that means access to what you can offer thanks to those govt contacts). Employ volunteers and low paid community types to do the donkey work, give credibility and disguise who really benefits.

Welcome to the Big Society.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound


"This is the modern way of doing 'charity'.

Pay 'competitive' salaries (this really means London weighted, highly attractive salary). Use your govt contacts to gain contracts.

Charge consultancy fees for your 'services' (that means access to what you can offer thanks to those govt contacts). Employ volunteers and low paid community types to do the donkey work, give credibility and disguise who really benefits.

Welcome to the Big Society.

"

That's just not true of the majority of charities. 90% operate at £50k and under. The large national and international charities operate multi million businesses. The rest operate at £50k - £2m.

Yes, charities have been sold a business model of being entrepreneurial and competitive. They may not be able to get some grants if they can't show how they are making money for the cause through some sales of services or goods.

As to pay structures I have no problem paying people a decent salary for a decent days work. If your primary aim is the relief of poverty I believe it is your duty to ensure in whatever way you can that the people working for you aren't on poverty wages. A large number of people are, regrettably, on shitty short term contracts, zero hour contracts and under threat of redundancy every January.

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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago

Bristol


"He is most certainly not a Labour MP - where did you read that?

It read as if he was an MP, I think the letter was written to their MP, questioning the expenses of the trust itself "

So, based on the fact you got the entire premise of your topic completely wrong, what are your thoughts on the Trussell Trust?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"He is most certainly not a Labour MP - where did you read that?

It read as if he was an MP, I think the letter was written to their MP, questioning the expenses of the trust itself

So, based on the fact you got the entire premise of your topic completely wrong, what are your thoughts on the Trussell Trust?"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think we all know we're not referring to the local youth club charities!

The point is that a significant amount of charity has become big business and nicely lucrative for some.

Operating a charity efficiently and professionally is of course important. Whether it's really necessary to spend on vast salaries or consultancy fees is questionable.

Whether a national charity should charge local voluntary led groups a consultancy fee to deliver their charitable objective is highly questionable.

There was a very interesting switch throughout the sector the moment the Conservatives took power with some very well connected people suddenly becoming prominent in the third sector.

The New Schools Network is also interesting. So is the NCS - also Shaftesbury.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound


"I think we all know we're not referring to the local youth club charities!

The point is that a significant amount of charity has become big business and nicely lucrative for some.

Operating a charity efficiently and professionally is of course important. Whether it's really necessary to spend on vast salaries or consultancy fees is questionable.

Whether a national charity should charge local voluntary led groups a consultancy fee to deliver their charitable objective is highly questionable.

There was a very interesting switch throughout the sector the moment the Conservatives took power with some very well connected people suddenly becoming prominent in the third sector.

The New Schools Network is also interesting. So is the NCS - also Shaftesbury.

"

The Big Society rhetoric and the greater thrust that charities should earn more of their income is not to my taste but I also know they can't live on air pie and windy pudding.

Consultants appear in a different accounting column but can work out cheaper for a the charity as they don't have to pay annual leave, sick leave or employer's Tax & NI contributions.

My point is that sweeping statements about charities suggesting they are all operating on the same model means that a good few people will think we're referring to the local youth club charity as much as it does to the Cats Protection League. It's like comparing an occasional market stall with Tesco.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

I've yet to meet a 'consultant' who worked out cheaper than an employee.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound


"I've yet to meet a 'consultant' who worked out cheaper than an employee."

I've employed many. Short term, focused and no overheads.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Indeed - but if you pay one for an hour they'll be able to convince you of their other benefits.

The point about consultancy in this particular case is the self declared national body charging for such to Ethel and Maureen who want to hand out beans from their local community hall.

This is nothing to do with a charity striving to adapt in new ways of doing things. This is some very well connected people, many of which were previously unheard of in the sector, suddenly appearing along with some very large contracts of which they effectively have a monopoly.

As for sweeping statements this is an informal chat, not a press release.

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By *erbyDalesCplCouple
over a year ago

Derbyshire

I agree.

We were brought up with the concept of charitable giving, then we discover that many 'charities' are run for benefit of the people at the top, or their families, or used as party political propaganda machines. It is shocking how little money people have to give to their t'cause' and still be classed as a charity.

If you care about a charity, give time, not money. Or at least check where it goes.

(Just imagine the hoo-hah if a 'private business' had made half a million pounds from people going to foodbanks.....)

Mr ddc

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By *B9 QueenWoman
over a year ago

Over the rainbow, under the bridge

The only donation I make is in food itself.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

its difficult though because the charities that are run on non professional lines just don't make much money. It seems its playgroup jumble sale or big business with nothing in between.

I enquired about volunteering in a nearby charity shop, I was given an application form and they have requested two referees. The admin involved in that must be quite costly. I realise they need to check me out but a DBS check which is also a requirement would do that wouldn't it?

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By *anchestercubMan
over a year ago

manchester & NI


"its difficult though because the charities that are run on non professional lines just don't make much money. It seems its playgroup jumble sale or big business with nothing in between.

I enquired about volunteering in a nearby charity shop, I was given an application form and they have requested two referees. The admin involved in that must be quite costly. I realise they need to check me out but a DBS check which is also a requirement would do that wouldn't it? "

Most national charities will also pay travel expenses for volunteers (buses and trams).

I used to claim back my tram costs, about £10 a week, although this isn't a lot of money on it's own, multiply it by many volunteers and it's a significant sum.

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By *erbyDalesCplCouple
over a year ago

Derbyshire


"its difficult though because the charities that are run on non professional lines just don't make much money. It seems its playgroup jumble sale or big business with nothing in between.

I enquired about volunteering in a nearby charity shop, I was given an application form and they have requested two referees. The admin involved in that must be quite costly. I realise they need to check me out but a DBS check which is also a requirement would do that wouldn't it? "

True, but you don't need much money to take donated food from the local supermarket and distribute it to the needy. Just volunteers with time.

Unless of course a national concern has signed up exclusivity with your local supermarket, and is now charging you thousands of pounds to be allowed said food.

Voilà the Trussel Trust (from what I can see)

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex


"its difficult though because the charities that are run on non professional lines just don't make much money. It seems its playgroup jumble sale or big business with nothing in between.

I enquired about volunteering in a nearby charity shop, I was given an application form and they have requested two referees. The admin involved in that must be quite costly. I realise they need to check me out but a DBS check which is also a requirement would do that wouldn't it?

Most national charities will also pay travel expenses for volunteers (buses and trams).

I used to claim back my tram costs, about £10 a week, although this isn't a lot of money on it's own, multiply it by many volunteers and it's a significant sum. "

yes this one said it would pay my travel costs, I wouldn't dream of claiming them but I can see how some people might not be able to volunteer otherwise.

I volunteered in a charity shop when our kids were small and I just turned up and said I was available

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


"I've yet to meet a 'consultant' who worked out cheaper than an employee.

I've employed many. Short term, focused and no overheads.

"

You must employ cheap consultants.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I've yet to meet a 'consultant' who worked out cheaper than an employee.

I've employed many. Short term, focused and no overheads.

You must employ cheap consultants."

They're often cheaper in the sector I work in. Most people don't realise the full cost to an organisation of employees.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound


"I've yet to meet a 'consultant' who worked out cheaper than an employee.

I've employed many. Short term, focused and no overheads.

You must employ cheap consultants.

They're often cheaper in the sector I work in. Most people don't realise the full cost to an organisation of employees. "

The other bit of cost effectiveness that you can't get with an employee is the consultant gets paid on delivery of the product, if you've written the agreement properly. Just turning up on time is not enough to trigger payments.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"This is on the back of the Trust being mentioned on another thread so I thought I'd google.

In a nut shell it has raised a few questions as 900,000 people using food banks in by no means a good marker for a Govt to score it's success by. But the person asking for information from Companies house has gleaned this:

Chris Mould - Labour MP is exec chairman to the trussle trust.

"Over the last two years (2011-12) Mould and his wife have received over £150,000 in wages, salaries, emoluments, consultancy fees and rent payments from Trussell Trust.

The rent payments go to Mould's wife who bills the Trust for office space she leases to it in Salisbury.

Mould has also set up a private company, Chris Mould Limited, through which Trussell Trust has paid him more than £30,000 over the last two years, for "management consultancy" services.

A further sum of £1700 was paid last year to "Chris Mould Support", "for the support of Chris Mould in support of his role as trustee"

Nearly two thirds (over £600,000) of Trussell's income is currently being spent on staff wages, etc.

Since the Trussell frontline workers are all unpaid volunteers, that sounds like an awful lot of money on the wages bill."

Any views on this? Is the Trust being used as 'propaganda'? Contacts for the trust could easily be dispersed among Labour run councils? (I am not saying people are not in need.

I googled "The Shaftesbury Partnership" it was at the top of the second page. Open democracy net.

"

A charity is still a business. Sometimes well paid and talented people are needed to run successful businesses.

A friend of mine was the CEO of a hospice charity that provided end of life care. He was paid a six figure sum. Was that wrong? He bought six figures worth of experience for the job, and if they didn't pay him that money then he'd go elsewhere and get paid the money (actually more money, he took a paycut for them).

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I donated sperm once, does that count?

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

I've just had a look at the latest Trussell Trust accounts.

They have doubled in size in one year, half of that income is restricted to the specific projects where they have been given grants. They have 54 paid staff and the 500+ volunteers equate to a further 31 full time positions. Over 100 of those volunteers were supported in some way (that usually means a member of staff). They generate income from their shops, offering employment to people, as well as the funding from grants. A further 600+ volunteers did one off things. They made a surplus (it's not called profit because it has to be reinvested) of £484k on the year.

£1m+ was salaries (on 54 staff). The related party disclosures show £5,999 to the Shaftesbury Partnership as shared rent costs, £4,277 as a deposit on rent which is refundable on vacation of said premises, £1k on shared utility bills. £500 paid to Mrs Mould (wife of the Mould at the start of the thread) for use of premises.

None of that seems extraordinary or noteworthy.

As to thinking that charity is free that was only ever possible when someone else absorbed the costs. The days of Lord and Lady Bountiful endowing things in their name, giving their staff gratis to run it and allowing the ladies who do good to join in are long gone.

By all means give time instead of money if you think money should not be involved but don't think that time will pay for the rent, rates, heat and light. Even the small charities with no paid staff have to find some money for things. Nothing comes for free.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"None of that seems extraordinary or noteworthy.

"

Exactly.

A million people use food banks. That;s obscene. Attacking a charity who shouldn't need to exist rather than the people responsible for this situation is very strange logic

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"None of that seems extraordinary or noteworthy.

Exactly.

A million people use food banks. That;s obscene. Attacking a charity who shouldn't need to exist rather than the people responsible for this situation is very strange logic"

In perspective, the ONS state that the population of the UK end of 2010 was 62.8 million.

Not calculated but their best estimate is now 64.9 million.

An increase of 2.1 million people. In a short space of time.

With the economy only just having recoveered from Labour's utter debacle and fuck up, is anyone surprised that 1 million people eat at food banks.

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By *erbyDalesCplCouple
over a year ago

Derbyshire


"None of that seems extraordinary or noteworthy.

Exactly.

A million people use food banks. That;s obscene. "

Except.they dont.

The Trussle Trust have admitted that their figure was bollocks, designed for political impact.

That figure was the number of parcels handed out

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex


"None of that seems extraordinary or noteworthy.

Exactly.

A million people use food banks. That;s obscene.

Except.they dont.

The Trussle Trust have admitted that their figure was bollocks, designed for political impact.

That figure was the number of parcels handed out"

So is the figure higher or lower given that it's often families that use them and there is a limit of two visits in six months?

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound


"None of that seems extraordinary or noteworthy.

Exactly.

A million people use food banks. That;s obscene.

Except.they dont.

The Trussle Trust have admitted that their figure was bollocks, designed for political impact.

That figure was the number of parcels handed out

So is the figure higher or lower given that it's often families that use them and there is a limit of two visits in six months?"

I haven't checked but I believed it to be an extrapolation of the number of parcels given out being used by the whole family. So 1 parcel might be four people.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex


"None of that seems extraordinary or noteworthy.

Exactly.

A million people use food banks. That;s obscene.

Except.they dont.

The Trussle Trust have admitted that their figure was bollocks, designed for political impact.

That figure was the number of parcels handed out

So is the figure higher or lower given that it's often families that use them and there is a limit of two visits in six months?

I haven't checked but I believed it to be an extrapolation of the number of parcels given out being used by the whole family. So 1 parcel might be four people.

"

Ok, thanks.

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By *erbyDalesCplCouple
over a year ago

Derbyshire


"

So is the figure higher or lower given that it's often families that use them and there is a limit of two visits in six months?"

Reports of couples going as individuals to get double parcels, 9 visits in 4 months, visiting multiple foodbanks.

If you offer free food, people will take it.

If you make more money the more people you distribute it to, you will increase the number you provide to.

That said, I am very conscious I am a bit too cynical for my own good sometimes, but I don't understand foodbank need, and trust me we have been poor in the past.

I never got past the chap coming out with a jar of Hollandaise sauce. We just lived off basics beans and basics bread.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

So is the figure higher or lower given that it's often families that use them and there is a limit of two visits in six months?

Reports of couples going as individuals to get double parcels, 9 visits in 4 months, visiting multiple foodbanks.

If you offer free food, people will take it.

If you make more money the more people you distribute it to, you will increase the number you provide to.

That said, I am very conscious I am a bit too cynical for my own good sometimes, but I don't understand foodbank need, and trust me we have been poor in the past.

I never got past the chap coming out with a jar of Hollandaise sauce. We just lived off basics beans and basics bread."

Nor those collecting it in their Mercs or using smartphones whilst doing so.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"This is on the back of the Trust being mentioned on another thread so I thought I'd google.

In a nut shell it has raised a few questions as 900,000 people using food banks in by no means a good marker for a Govt to score it's success by. But the person asking for information from Companies house has gleaned this:

Chris Mould - Labour MP is exec chairman to the trussle trust.

"Over the last two years (2011-12) Mould and his wife have received over £150,000 in wages, salaries, emoluments, consultancy fees and rent payments from Trussell Trust.

The rent payments go to Mould's wife who bills the Trust for office space she leases to it in Salisbury.

Mould has also set up a private company, Chris Mould Limited, through which Trussell Trust has paid him more than £30,000 over the last two years, for "management consultancy" services.

A further sum of £1700 was paid last year to "Chris Mould Support", "for the support of Chris Mould in support of his role as trustee"

Nearly two thirds (over £600,000) of Trussell's income is currently being spent on staff wages, etc.

Since the Trussell frontline workers are all unpaid volunteers, that sounds like an awful lot of money on the wages bill."

Any views on this? Is the Trust being used as 'propaganda'? Contacts for the trust could easily be dispersed among Labour run councils? (I am not saying people are not in need.

I googled "The Shaftesbury Partnership" it was at the top of the second page. Open democracy net.

"

Nearly all charities are just big operations that make a few people very rich.most money comes in goes to the bosses or advertising to get more money.

The actual charity work is usually done by volunteer or just not done at all.

Peta is a fantastic example of how a charity can start well and end up as purely an organisation that exists to continue its own existence

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex


"

So is the figure higher or lower given that it's often families that use them and there is a limit of two visits in six months?

Reports of couples going as individuals to get double parcels, 9 visits in 4 months, visiting multiple foodbanks.

If you offer free food, people will take it.

If you make more money the more people you distribute it to, you will increase the number you provide to.

That said, I am very conscious I am a bit too cynical for my own good sometimes, but I don't understand foodbank need, and trust me we have been poor in the past.

I never got past the chap coming out with a jar of Hollandaise sauce. We just lived off basics beans and basics bread."

I have seen real and genuine need. Teenagers in education whose main carer drank all the money, teenagers in education who have come out of the care system and can't manage money because nobody showed them how, self employed people who haven't been able to work through sickness and their benefits have been held up....I could go on. There will be abuse of any system like this of course and the man could only come out with hollandaise if it had been donated what do you suggest should have been done with it?

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

I'm not sure how people could go to multiple food banks unless they're forging the vouchers that are issued by doctors, social workers etc.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

A little different to food banks but I was considering doing some overseas volunteering through a charity a few years ago. The cost was in the £0,000s,but 10% of that went towards future marketing & advertising.

Right put me off!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Anybody remember that story of people fighting over the cheap, knock down stuff in tesco? There really is a desperate need for food out there.

http://metro.co.uk/2013/12/19/scrapping-for-scraps-shoppers-fight-in-the-aisles-of-tesco-for-discounted-food-4236855/

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What's being missed is that the Trussel Trust aren't handing out food parcels or supporting armies of volunteers. They are effectively middle men.

On a separate note what I don't understand is that if there are people in genuine need to be fed. If they are only permitted a small amount of parcels - what do they do in the interim and how does a food back know how much food to stock?

To me if there is this kind of need it should never be reliant on charity. It should be a part of the welfare service.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex


"What's being missed is that the Trussel Trust aren't handing out food parcels or supporting armies of volunteers. They are effectively middle men.

On a separate note what I don't understand is that if there are people in genuine need to be fed. If they are only permitted a small amount of parcels - what do they do in the interim and how does a food back know how much food to stock?

To me if there is this kind of need it should never be reliant on charity. It should be a part of the welfare service.

"

They can only stock as much as is donated. Our local food bank issues a list of things they're short of and things they have lots of.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

They can only stock as much as is donated. Our local food bank issues a list of things they're short of and things they have lots of."

Presumably to make such a list they must know something of the level of need. With that info there should be a strong case for preventing the need in the first place.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex


"

They can only stock as much as is donated. Our local food bank issues a list of things they're short of and things they have lots of.

Presumably to make such a list they must know something of the level of need. With that info there should be a strong case for preventing the need in the first place.

"

I'm not sure I think they work on what demand was in the previous week or whatever time period they work on. They often have loads of pasta for instance and tinned soup and a lack of things that can be "cooked" when you have only a kettle or eaten with no cooking at all for people with no fuel.

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