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"I don't support the death penalty for any crime and have given time and money to support Reprieve working on death row cases. However, I also get annoyed that there appears to be some expectation that when Westerners break the law in other countries they should have some sort of special treatment." This | |||
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"one look at the jails would make me stay on the right side of the law! " | |||
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"It's seems that all attempts at clemency have failed and these two criminals are going to face the firing squad tonight in Indonesia. I can just about understand the death penalty for murder but struggle to think of any justification to be put to death for drug smuggling. Whilst drugs ruin many lives should it come to this? The British lady convicted at the same time will face the same fate soon. " I agree but at the end of the day, when you travel to another country, you have have to go by their laws.. & sentences. | |||
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"Its not like they don't make it VERY clear in both Indonesia and Malaysia what the penalty is for drug smuggling. There are pictures at every border stating that they will be put to death. Both countries have a huge drugs problem, so I guess this is what they call a warning." This.... I'm all for the death penalty. Rules is rules, shame we aren't as tough. | |||
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"Rules are rules...... Break them at your own risk... " Indeed. The old saying 'If you can't do the time, don't do the crime' comes to mind. OK, so I appreciate that they're not facing a long time behind bars, but as has been said, it has been made very clear what the penalty for drug smuggling is, so they knew the risks. | |||
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"There is loads more On the case I've just been reading is as there are 9 people scheduled to be excuscuted in an hours time " It ought to be at sunset so they get to see a last sunset. I'm sure they are thinking of their imminent departure from this world but gave no thought to those who may have died had they been succesful. I wonder if they will hear the gunshot? After all, bullets travel faster than the speed of sound so they may not hear the noise of the rifles. Multiple gunshot wounds will cause major trauma and they will die probably before their nerves can register the pain. | |||
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"I don't support the death penalty for any crime and have given time and money to support Reprieve working on death row cases. However, I also get annoyed that there appears to be some expectation that when Westerners break the law in other countries they should have some sort of special treatment. This " Pretty much this. Are people getting upset because they are white English speaking people ? | |||
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"However there are cases where people haven't known that drugs have been placed in their luggage " This. That's why I would never go there. This COULD happen and if it did, the Indonesian justice system is pretty much zero - tolerance. But these guys knew full well what they were doing and they got caught. No fucks given about those who might have died from their drugs they would have pocketed from. Did anybody watch "life on death row" on the BBC?.. Texas. I've been following one of those guys cars very closely. Robert Pruett one of the guys the program was featured on is being executed tonight aswell. | |||
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"I hope they don't get executed" As do I. That's why I support Reprieve and their work on individual cases, and not just Westerners. | |||
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"There is loads more On the case I've just been reading is as there are 9 people scheduled to be excuscuted in an hours time It ought to be at sunset so they get to see a last sunset. I'm sure they are thinking of their imminent departure from this world but gave no thought to those who may have died had they been succesful. I wonder if they will hear the gunshot? After all, bullets travel faster than the speed of sound so they may not hear the noise of the rifles. Multiple gunshot wounds will cause major trauma and they will die probably before their nerves can register the pain. " Steve, There is an Article I've literally just finished reading that explains both the Case and the Execution regimen that Indonesia have relative to death by Firing Squad. I'm not sure if I'm allowed to post a link?... Does anybody know if links are allowed to be posted of OFFICIAL news websites?.... | |||
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"Rules are rules...... Break them at your own risk... " | |||
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"I really don't know how I feel about this situation..... I despise drug takers , I despise drug traffickers, I don't support the death penalty, however I do believe sovereign state law must be respected ..... " Similar. I can't ever bring myself to support the death penalty. Many years in their prison would be equally unbearable (and would probably result in a prolonged death in any event). | |||
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"There is loads more On the case I've just been reading is as there are 9 people scheduled to be excuscuted in an hours time It ought to be at sunset so they get to see a last sunset. I'm sure they are thinking of their imminent departure from this world but gave no thought to those who may have died had they been succesful. I wonder if they will hear the gunshot? After all, bullets travel faster than the speed of sound so they may not hear the noise of the rifles. Multiple gunshot wounds will cause major trauma and they will die probably before their nerves can register the pain. Steve, There is an Article I've literally just finished reading that explains both the Case and the Execution regimen that Indonesia have relative to death by Firing Squad. I'm not sure if I'm allowed to post a link?... Does anybody know if links are allowed to be posted of OFFICIAL news websites?...." If it's national press then Yep - that's fine. A | |||
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"Australian foreign minister, Julie Bishop, has said there would be “consequences” for Indonesia if the executions go ahead, but she said: “I fear that this execution will proceed.”" thats cute coming from a country that takes its own laws very seriously to the point of stopping asylum seekers gaining entry | |||
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"Drugs kill so the death penalty is justified for smugglers they know its the law in that country more's the pity it's not here " drugs kill so let's kill people? Sounds like a stupid idea!Are you classing alcohol in with this to or just drugs you don't do? | |||
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"Australians will not hold any consequences against Indonesia for too long . Trade agreements and exports to Indonesia are too valuable to Australia " And that's the EXACT reason why there are ZERO consequences against America who also have the Death Penalty. | |||
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"Drugs kill so the death penalty is justified for smugglers they know its the law in that country more's the pity it's not here drugs kill so let's kill people? Sounds like a stupid idea!Are you classing alcohol in with this to or just drugs you don't do?" I suppose you could extrapolate that to the Nth degree and include cigarettes, tobacco products, sugary foods.... | |||
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"I hate how just because that's the law in Indonesia people excuse the fact that this is a disproportionate and inhuman punishment. The people of Indonesia are clearly creating a demand for drugs in the first place " its a chicken and egg situation..cocaine and heroin are not native to the area..so which came first? | |||
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"Drugs kill so the death penalty is justified for smugglers they know its the law in that country more's the pity it's not here drugs kill so let's kill people? Sounds like a stupid idea!Are you classing alcohol in with this to or just drugs you don't do? I suppose you could extrapolate that to the Nth degree and include cigarettes, tobacco products, sugary foods...." All of which are better controlled for being legal | |||
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"I hate how just because that's the law in Indonesia people excuse the fact that this is a disproportionate and inhuman punishment. The people of Indonesia are clearly creating a demand for drugs in the first place its a chicken and egg situation..cocaine and heroin are not native to the area..so which came first?" In Indonesias case the heroin came first and most certainly is indigenous. They were using it in 15th century when Dutch explorers first found the place. People always have and always will use drugs it's nieve to concentrate on trying to stop supply instead of reducing harm | |||
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"As above! Everyone knows the rules so break them at your own risk. If only the UK was like other countries then maybe these people would think twice and the streets wouldn't be flooded with drugs." It wouldn't make any difference to the demand for drugs in the UK | |||
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" I'm not sure if I'm allowed to post a link?... Does anybody know if links are allowed to be posted of OFFICIAL news websites?...." https://www.fabswingers.com/content/forum-rules | |||
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"I don't support the death penalty for any crime and have given time and money to support Reprieve working on death row cases. However, I also get annoyed that there appears to be some expectation that when Westerners break the law in other countries they should have some sort of special treatment. This Pretty much this. Are people getting upset because they are white English speaking people ? " English speaking but they are not white. | |||
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"If they are alive after rounds have been spent the commander will shoot them in the head at close range.... " just horrid..... | |||
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"I don't support the death penalty for any crime and have given time and money to support Reprieve working on death row cases. However, I also get annoyed that there appears to be some expectation that when Westerners break the law in other countries they should have some sort of special treatment." Quite agree. We expect those from other countries to abide by our laws so we should do the same in theirs | |||
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"I don't support the death penalty for any crime and have given time and money to support Reprieve working on death row cases. However, I also get annoyed that there appears to be some expectation that when Westerners break the law in other countries they should have some sort of special treatment. This Pretty much this. Are people getting upset because they are white English speaking people ? " | |||
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"I don't support the death penalty for any crime and have given time and money to support Reprieve working on death row cases. However, I also get annoyed that there appears to be some expectation that when Westerners break the law in other countries they should have some sort of special treatment. This Pretty much this. Are people getting upset because they are white English speaking people ? " They are still not white. | |||
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"If they are alive after rounds have been spent the commander will shoot them in the head at close range.... " The Electric Chair imo is far worse. That must be horrendous. | |||
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"This article explains the case and the Execution Process for Death by Firing Squad over there. And fair warning... It's fucking grim. http://www.news.com.au/world/asia/the-executions-of-bali-nine-duo-andrew- chan-and-myuran-sukumaran/story- fnh81fz8-1227325701195" You're right. Grim reading. | |||
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"If they are alive after rounds have been spent the commander will shoot them in the head at close range.... The Electric Chair imo is far worse. That must be horrendous. " Not that it's a nice choice to make but I think the firing squad is preferable to the chair! | |||
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"I don't support the death penalty for any crime and have given time and money to support Reprieve working on death row cases. However, I also get annoyed that there appears to be some expectation that when Westerners break the law in other countries they should have some sort of special treatment. This Pretty much this. Are people getting upset because they are white English speaking people ? They are still not white. " I haven't read anything to suggest that any of them are white one is from France who I believe to be African, 2 from Australia one from the Philippines one from Brazil however the French man have been given a reprieve | |||
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"I don't support the death penalty for any crime and have given time and money to support Reprieve working on death row cases. However, I also get annoyed that there appears to be some expectation that when Westerners break the law in other countries they should have some sort of special treatment. This Pretty much this. Are people getting upset because they are white English speaking people ? They are still not white. I haven't read anything to suggest that any of them are white one is from France who I believe to be African, 2 from Australia one from the Philippines one from Brazil however the French man have been given a reprieve " There's not a white person amongst them all black and aisan, not that this should matter. either way it won't change a thing there for users things will be business as usual | |||
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"I don't support the death penalty for any crime and have given time and money to support Reprieve working on death row cases. However, I also get annoyed that there appears to be some expectation that when Westerners break the law in other countries they should have some sort of special treatment. This Pretty much this. Are people getting upset because they are white English speaking people ? They are still not white. " Many shallow people love to pull out the race card where possible, even when they're completely and utterly ignorant of the facts. The "Bali Nine" are of a few different ethnicities and are being treated as equals. | |||
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"I don't support the death penalty for any crime and have given time and money to support Reprieve working on death row cases. However, I also get annoyed that there appears to be some expectation that when Westerners break the law in other countries they should have some sort of special treatment. This Pretty much this. Are people getting upset because they are white English speaking people ? They are still not white. Many shallow people love to pull out the race card where possible, even when they're completely and utterly ignorant of the facts. The "Bali Nine" are of a few different ethnicities and are being treated as equals." Some people feel the need to be that "right on" that they jump on the bandwagon without checking the facts first it seems. | |||
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"I don't support the death penalty for any crime and have given time and money to support Reprieve working on death row cases. However, I also get annoyed that there appears to be some expectation that when Westerners break the law in other countries they should have some sort of special treatment. This Pretty much this. Are people getting upset because they are white English speaking people ? They are still not white. I haven't read anything to suggest that any of them are white one is from France who I believe to be African, 2 from Australia one from the Philippines one from Brazil however the French man have been given a reprieve " Fair do's. I should have done my research. | |||
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"I don't support the death penalty for any crime and have given time and money to support Reprieve working on death row cases. However, I also get annoyed that there appears to be some expectation that when Westerners break the law in other countries they should have some sort of special treatment. This Pretty much this. Are people getting upset because they are white English speaking people ? They are still not white. Many shallow people love to pull out the race card where possible, even when they're completely and utterly ignorant of the facts. The "Bali Nine" are of a few different ethnicities and are being treated as equals. Some people feel the need to be that "right on" that they jump on the bandwagon without checking the facts first it seems. " Seems I fell off that bandwagon. | |||
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"I don't support the death penalty for any crime and have given time and money to support Reprieve working on death row cases. However, I also get annoyed that there appears to be some expectation that when Westerners break the law in other countries they should have some sort of special treatment. This Pretty much this. Are people getting upset because they are white English speaking people ? They are still not white. I haven't read anything to suggest that any of them are white one is from France who I believe to be African, 2 from Australia one from the Philippines one from Brazil however the French man have been given a reprieve Fair do's. I should have done my research. " | |||
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" I also get annoyed that there appears to be some expectation that when Westerners break the law in other countries they should have some sort of special treatment." Me too! Same hypocrites lament the fact the UK doesn't have the death penalty yet get all teary eyed if one of their own falls foul of the law in countries that do! | |||
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"I don't support the death penalty for any crime and have given time and money to support Reprieve working on death row cases. However, I also get annoyed that there appears to be some expectation that when Westerners break the law in other countries they should have some sort of special treatment. This Pretty much this. Are people getting upset because they are white English speaking people ? They are still not white. Many shallow people love to pull out the race card where possible, even when they're completely and utterly ignorant of the facts. The "Bali Nine" are of a few different ethnicities and are being treated as equals." And I fell from that bandwagon into a shallow pool. | |||
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"It has nothing to do with race and everything to do with nationality. Lots of people are executed every day - do we have daily execution updates for them all on Fab? If the culprits hadn't included 'Westerners' then they would have had a small little square in the newspaper at best, and not a mention on Fab. " It's a topical subject I make no apology for putting in the lounge section. It's certainly provoked discussion. Feel free to start a subject somewhere else about whatever's riled you. | |||
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"Rules are rules...... Break them at your own risk... " | |||
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"It has nothing to do with race and everything to do with nationality. Lots of people are executed every day - do we have daily execution updates for them all on Fab? If the culprits hadn't included 'Westerners' then they would have had a small little square in the newspaper at best, and not a mention on Fab. It's a topical subject I make no apology for putting in the lounge section. It's certainly provoked discussion. Feel free to start a subject somewhere else about whatever's riled you. " Where did I ask for an apology? I'm giving my opinion on the thread contents the same as everyone else! | |||
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"It has nothing to do with race and everything to do with nationality. Lots of people are executed every day - do we have daily execution updates for them all on Fab? If the culprits hadn't included 'Westerners' then they would have had a small little square in the newspaper at best, and not a mention on Fab. " Actually do Australians count as Westerners? Serious question. | |||
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"However there are cases where people haven't known that drugs have been placed in their luggage " thats bullshit who would put drugs in a strangers bag, its like throwing it away | |||
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"However there are cases where people haven't known that drugs have been placed in their luggage thats bullshit who would put drugs in a strangers bag, its like throwing it away" I believe the idea is to mug the "mule" outside the airport. | |||
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"It has nothing to do with race and everything to do with nationality. Lots of people are executed every day - do we have daily execution updates for them all on Fab? If the culprits hadn't included 'Westerners' then they would have had a small little square in the newspaper at best, and not a mention on Fab. Actually do Australians count as Westerners? Serious question. " After my minimal research I believe one of them was British. But no , I don't think the Aussies are westerners. | |||
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"It has nothing to do with race and everything to do with nationality. Lots of people are executed every day - do we have daily execution updates for them all on Fab? If the culprits hadn't included 'Westerners' then they would have had a small little square in the newspaper at best, and not a mention on Fab. Actually do Australians count as Westerners? Serious question. " I'd certainly consider them to be so, not geographically obviously but definitely culturally and politically. | |||
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"It has nothing to do with race and everything to do with nationality. Lots of people are executed every day - do we have daily execution updates for them all on Fab? If the culprits hadn't included 'Westerners' then they would have had a small little square in the newspaper at best, and not a mention on Fab. Actually do Australians count as Westerners? Serious question. I'd certainly consider them to be so, not geographically obviously but definitely culturally and politically. " | |||
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"It's very sad. " | |||
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" I also get annoyed that there appears to be some expectation that when Westerners break the law in other countries they should have some sort of special treatment. Me too! Same hypocrites lament the fact the UK doesn't have the death penalty yet get all teary eyed if one of their own falls foul of the law in countries that do! " It was only the other day there was a thread where people were happily saying they would kill someone if they were wronged.... | |||
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"Sad for their families and for a society that still thinks killing people is an acceptable form of punishment. " It sure does guarantee no recidivism. | |||
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"The woman was reprieved" Yeah she was it seems that she was a key witness in a trial taking place in the Philippines and one of the recruiters had handed themselves in | |||
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"Sad for their families and for a society that still thinks killing people is an acceptable form of punishment. " | |||
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"Its not like they don't make it VERY clear in both Indonesia and Malaysia what the penalty is for drug smuggling. There are pictures at every border stating that they will be put to death. Both countries have a huge drugs problem, so I guess this is what they call a warning." | |||
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"Sad for their families and for a society that still thinks killing people is an acceptable form of punishment. It sure does guarantee no recidivism. " That's true but it doesn't appear to stop the crimes. The murder rates in the USA in the states with the death penalty show no signs of getting lower, the number of people willing to risk the death penalty to smuggle drugs continues. | |||
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"However there are cases where people haven't known that drugs have been placed in their luggage thats bullshit who would put drugs in a strangers bag, its like throwing it away" It happens usually a person is befriended by someone | |||
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"one look at the jails would make me stay on the right side of the law! " shame ours arent like that | |||
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" I also get annoyed that there appears to be some expectation that when Westerners break the law in other countries they should have some sort of special treatment. Me too! Same hypocrites lament the fact the UK doesn't have the death penalty yet get all teary eyed if one of their own falls foul of the law in countries that do! It was only the other day there was a thread where people were happily saying they would kill someone if they were wronged.... " I'm not saying I agree with the death penalty but each country has rules and we have to respect that, but how many people die each year from drug use, these people had no regard for that, it's a never ending chain, drugs take life's in one way or another | |||
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"Sad for their families and for a society that still thinks killing people is an acceptable form of punishment. It sure does guarantee no recidivism. That's true but it doesn't appear to stop the crimes. The murder rates in the USA in the states with the death penalty show no signs of getting lower, the number of people willing to risk the death penalty to smuggle drugs continues. " I wasn't condoning, just thinking that it's one sure way to get an absolute outcome from criminal justice. | |||
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" I also get annoyed that there appears to be some expectation that when Westerners break the law in other countries they should have some sort of special treatment. Me too! Same hypocrites lament the fact the UK doesn't have the death penalty yet get all teary eyed if one of their own falls foul of the law in countries that do! It was only the other day there was a thread where people were happily saying they would kill someone if they were wronged.... I'm not saying I agree with the death penalty but each country has rules and we have to respect that, but how many people die each year from drug use, these people had no regard for that, it's a never ending chain, drugs take life's in one way or another " | |||
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"Its not like they don't make it VERY clear in both Indonesia and Malaysia what the penalty is for drug smuggling. There are pictures at every border stating that they will be put to death. Both countries have a huge drugs problem, so I guess this is what they call a warning." It's the chance you take in those countries, their rules so abide by them, we expect people coming here to follow ours. | |||
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"Drugs kill so the death penalty is justified for smugglers they know its the law in that country more's the pity it's not here " | |||
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"There is loads more On the case I've just been reading is as there are 9 people scheduled to be excuscuted in an hours time It ought to be at sunset so they get to see a last sunset. I'm sure they are thinking of their imminent departure from this world but gave no thought to those who may have died had they been succesful. I wonder if they will hear the gunshot? After all, bullets travel faster than the speed of sound so they may not hear the noise of the rifles. Multiple gunshot wounds will cause major trauma and they will die probably before their nerves can register the pain. " Yes gave no Thought to those who may have died Those words goes a long way with me. | |||
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"The smugglers knew the penalty if caught, they chose to take the risk and have now had that sentence carried out. It's the families that I feel bad for. They are the innocent ones who now have to live with the consequences. " I agree with this, if it had been my child I'd have wanted to give them the biggest boot up the arse going but I'd have still begged for their life if I'd have thought it would save them as would any parent, you can't imagine what it must feel like to have your child in a firing line | |||
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"I think it's sad and the comments here are even sadder, horrible in fact." & 8 ARE NOW DEAD WOMEN STOPPED LAST MIN | |||
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"It's seems that all attempts at clemency have failed and these two criminals are going to face the firing squad tonight in Indonesia. I can just about understand the death penalty for murder but struggle to think of any justification to be put to death for drug smuggling. Whilst drugs ruin many lives should it come to this? The British lady convicted at the same time will face the same fate soon. " They do make the penalties clear about drug smuggling in the Far East on flights and at borders. I have no sympathy for them. | |||
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"There will be a similar situation at some point in the future - would be illegal drug traffickers caught, tried and executed. We will be here again.... Btw, the young woman I named in my first post? Her parents allowed a photo of her dead body to be published. It was quite renowned in it's day. " I remember it well. She wasn't forced to take drugs any more than Leah Betts or any of the other high profile drug deaths from my teenage years. If the drug users friends and family deserve sympathy and compassion( which they do), these families deserve just as much. | |||
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"It's seems that all attempts at clemency have failed and these two criminals are going to face the firing squad tonight in Indonesia. I can just about understand the death penalty for murder but struggle to think of any justification to be put to death with for drug smuggling. Whilst drugs ruin many lives should it come to this? The British lady convicted at the same time will face the same fate soon. " Country's have rules,break them and suffer the consequences. This country is to soft | |||
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"It's seems that all attempts at clemency have failed and these two criminals are going to face the firing squad tonight in Indonesia. I can just about understand the death penalty for murder but struggle to think of any justification to be put to death with for drug smuggling. Whilst drugs ruin many lives should it come to this? The British lady convicted at the same time will face the same fate soon. Country's have rules,break them and suffer the consequences. This country is to soft" Your correct that this country is too soft in some respects. But I would draw the line at firing a sub machine gun into someone's chest at point blank range for drug trafficking. Perhaps heavier sentences and onus on restorative justice and rehabilitation? | |||
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"There will be a similar situation at some point in the future - would be illegal drug traffickers caught, tried and executed. We will be here again.... Btw, the young woman I named in my first post? Her parents allowed a photo of her dead body to be published. It was quite renowned in it's day. " I've seen a similar photo recently released by the family of a young man who'd taken his first and only legal high. It was a hard photo to see. I know that Indonesia has it's rules, but the firing squad seems barbaric. I can't agree with something that I could never do myself. | |||
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"In which ways is this country too soft?" Well here's a question for you . Would you rather risk trafficking drugs in Indonesia or here ? | |||
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"In which ways is this country too soft? Well here's a question for you . Would you rather risk trafficking drugs in Indonesia or here ? " And yet people still do, in both countries. According to the Indonesian government, its harsh sentences are because of the country's drug problems. Which rather implies those sentences aren't working to me | |||
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"I know theres exceptional cases e.g war crimes etc. But What gives someone the right to decide whether a person should live or die " And more to the point; why is death such a huge punishment anyway? It could be putting a criminal out of their misery for example. And as no one actually knows what if anything happens after death, they could be going to somewhere pleasant for all you know. Far better to make the person suffer whilst alive as a punishment, surely | |||
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"It's seems that all attempts at clemency have failed and these two criminals are going to face the firing squad tonight in Indonesia. I can just about understand the death penalty for murder but struggle to think of any justification to be put to death with for drug smuggling. Whilst drugs ruin many lives should it come to this? The British lady convicted at the same time will face the same fate soon. Country's have rules,break them and suffer the consequences. This country is to soft" Hardly. We abolished the death penalty for the precise reason that we were sending innocent people to the gallows via miscarriages of justice (eg the John Christie case) or we were sending people to the gallows who were just as much victims as the people they committed crimes against (eg the Ruth Ellis case) Britain does not have the death penalty for a very good reason. | |||
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" Meanwhile, President Obama continues to sign orders for extra-judicial deaths. and Tony Blair walks free. Also, didn't Afghan Opium Poopy production reach record levels during the latest British occupation? " Opium poopy? | |||
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" Meanwhile, President Obama continues to sign orders for extra-judicial deaths. and Tony Blair walks free. Also, didn't Afghan Opium Poopy production reach record levels during the latest British occupation? Opium poopy?" Go on then, replace an o with a p for me. Ta. Good job you don't get shoot up for typos innit? | |||
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" Meanwhile, President Obama continues to sign orders for extra-judicial deaths. and Tony Blair walks free. Also, didn't Afghan Opium Poopy production reach record levels during the latest British occupation? Opium poopy? Go on then, replace an o with a p for me. Ta. Good job you don't get shoot up for typos innit? " I had one this morning with my wool whistling thread instead of wolf whistling! | |||
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"Australian foreign minister, Julie Bishop, has said there would be “consequences” for Indonesia if the executions go ahead, but she said: “I fear that this execution will proceed.”" What consequences have the Austrailian colonists bore for the annihilation of a 40,000 year old aboriginal race and culture? They have always been the acceptable face of apartheid, and are in gross denial. | |||
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