FabSwingers.com forum: HSBC ready to de-camp

By *oo hot OP Couple
over a year ago

North West

Looks like the straw has now broken the camels back and the UK wide anti-banking rhetoric has finally resulted in a bank taking action and looking to move to a more bank friendly jurisdiction.

This under a relatively bank friendly conservative led coalition government! Is this the beginning of the end of London being a worldwide financial centre?

I personally hope not as the taxes paid into UK coffers by the baks and their fat cats makes up an irrecoverable amount of money that gets paid to the Treasury. Unfortunately with expressions like "tax on bankers bonuses" and "bank levy's" being bandied around during this campaign - I suspect that the days of London as a major financial centre will be numbered.

Ah, well never mind. We can always go back to sending 15 year old boys hundreds of feet underground to get coal.

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By *anchestercubMan
over a year ago

manchester & NI

Fine, take away their banking authorisation before they go.

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By *oodmessMan
over a year ago

yumsville

I thought HSBC were moving their HQ from London to Birmingham, in a a report last month?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I thought HSBC were moving their HQ from London to Birmingham, in a a report last month? "
That's what I read.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's nothing more than blustet because they want to influence people's votes.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

[Removed by poster at 24/04/15 10:09:48]

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By *bi HaiveMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Cheeseville, Somerset

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-32443930

A move out of the UK is being considered by the board.

HSBC does make 80% of its money outside of the UK - unlike lloyds, barclays and RBS.

If any big bank was to move it would be them.

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By *anchestercubMan
over a year ago

manchester & NI

"It's nothing more than blustet because they want to influence people's votes. "

What a coincidence that this comes to light less than 2 weeks before the election.

The letter from 100 business people (Tory stooges) was in the same vein.

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By *inaTitzTV/TS
over a year ago

Titz Towers, North Notts

1, considering we had to bail out banks at vast expense, I'm not convinced them moving to another jurisdiction is a total disaster.

2, you post a lot of Tory related stuff, OP, but I'm suspecting it is merely a clever smokescreen and you are in reality a member of The Worker's revolutionary Party

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By *bi HaiveMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Cheeseville, Somerset

"1, considering we had to bail out banks at vast expense, I'm not convinced them moving to another jurisdiction is a total disaster.

2, you post a lot of Tory related stuff, OP, but I'm suspecting it is merely a clever smokescreen and you are in reality a member of The Worker's revolutionary Party

'Some' banks.

HSBC wasn't one of them.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I thought HSBC were moving their HQ from London to Birmingham, in a a report last month? "

Londoners think that Birmingham is abroad lol

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By *at69driveMan
over a year ago

Hertford

"Looks like the straw has now broken the camels back and the UK wide anti-banking rhetoric has finally resulted in a bank taking action and looking to move to a more bank friendly jurisdiction.

This under a relatively bank friendly conservative led coalition government! Is this the beginning of the end of London being a worldwide financial centre?

Ah, well never mind. We can always go back to sending 15 year old boys hundreds of feet underground to get coal. "
. The success of banks is important to all of us . The amounts paid as a bonus to Directors are totally irrelevant in the overall scheme of things . Unto recently , dividends from banks were an important part of income for most pension funds . Let's all hope for a substantial recovery in the share prices of banks . Many peoples pensions are partly dependant on this.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We're all dooomed

On the other hand, no, we're not

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By *oo hot OP Couple
over a year ago

North West

"It's nothing more than blustet because they want to influence people's votes.

What a coincidence that this comes to light less than 2 weeks before the election.

The letter from 100 business people (Tory stooges) was in the same vein. "

Yes of course. Todays shareholder meeting by a public company to discuss this is nothing more than a ploy to affect the election.... Yeh right.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"1, considering we had to bail out banks at vast expense, I'm not convinced them moving to another jurisdiction is a total disaster.

2, you post a lot of Tory related stuff, OP, but I'm suspecting it is merely a clever smokescreen and you are in reality a member of The Worker's revolutionary Party

'Some' banks.

HSBC wasn't one of them.

A"
.

Not directly but they did get several Billon's of assets from organisations that did!.

Although regardless of bailouts, this is a company thats been involved in lying and manipulating markets, laundering money for terrorists and drug cartels, and hiding personal wealth for customers!.

So there not the most honest bunch of bankers

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Hmm.

I don't suppose it would be too fastidious of me to say the General Election is only 3 weeks away. ....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

There moving to colmore buissness park in brum

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Looks like the straw has now broken the camels back and the UK wide anti-banking rhetoric has finally resulted in a bank taking action and looking to move to a more bank friendly jurisdiction.

This under a relatively bank friendly conservative led coalition government! Is this the beginning of the end of London being a worldwide financial centre?

Ah, well never mind. We can always go back to sending 15 year old boys hundreds of feet underground to get coal. . The success of banks is important to all of us . The amounts paid as a bonus to Directors are totally irrelevant in the overall scheme of things . Unto recently , dividends from banks were an important part of income for most pension funds . Let's all hope for a substantial recovery in the share prices of banks . Many peoples pensions are partly dependant on this. "
.

Most peoples pensions were ruined by the crap debt rolled up into "assets" by hsbc and sold to pension companies!

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By *cd and scruffCouple
over a year ago

Rochester

"I thought HSBC were moving their HQ from London to Birmingham, in a a report last month?

Londoners think that Birmingham is abroad lol"

Is it not?

They all talk funny there.

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By *oo hot OP Couple
over a year ago

North West

"1, considering we had to bail out banks at vast expense, I'm not convinced them moving to another jurisdiction is a total disaster.

2, you post a lot of Tory related stuff, OP, but I'm suspecting it is merely a clever smokescreen and you are in reality a member of The Worker's revolutionary Party

1) HSBC was not bailed out. It is the largest bank in the world and last year the bank paid £1.1billion in Corporation tax alone. Let alone direct taxes from employees working at its Corporate HQ.

2) This decision has been taken under a conservative led government so I can hardly be accused of only putting spin on pro conservative stories. The point is that there has been incrreasing anti banking rhetoric over recent years and it shows no sign of slowing down.

London's financial centre contributes massively to UK tax receipts and many peoples pensions and savings are linked directly and indirectly to big banks so we just need to be careful what we wish for.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"1, considering we had to bail out banks at vast expense, I'm not convinced them moving to another jurisdiction is a total disaster.

2, you post a lot of Tory related stuff, OP, but I'm suspecting it is merely a clever smokescreen and you are in reality a member of The Worker's revolutionary Party

1) HSBC was not bailed out. It is the largest bank in the world and last year the bank paid £1.1billion in Corporation tax alone. Let alone direct taxes from employees working at its Corporate HQ.

"
.

There corporation tax bill is nothing compared to there fines for illegal activities.

There fine by the us for money laundering was 2 billion!

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By *oo hot OP Couple
over a year ago

North West

"There moving to colmore buissness park in brum "

And that is when we are likely to see HSBC UK go back to being Midland Bank. The story is about the proposal being discussed by shareholders today about re-locating the cosproate HQ outside of the UK.

Reuters "All HSBC has officially said on the future of its UK retail business is that the ‘ring-fenced’ operations are to move to Birmingham, shifting around 1,000 jobs from London to the second city by 2017.

Observers believe the decamping is a precursor to spinning them out as a separate entity.

Given the Midland’s roots in Birmingham – its precursor was set up on Union Street in 1836 – the shift is also deeply symbolic.

The speculation comes at a time when there is already a question mark over whether HSBC will maintain its headquarters in this country.

This has become more and more uncomfortable because of the levy on bank balance sheets which falls disproportionately on HSBC.

The current cost is $1.1billion (£730million)– and that could rise by as much as 20 per cent due to an increase in the recent budget. "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"1, considering we had to bail out banks at vast expense, I'm not convinced them moving to another jurisdiction is a total disaster.

2, you post a lot of Tory related stuff, OP, but I'm suspecting it is merely a clever smokescreen and you are in reality a member of The Worker's revolutionary Party

1) HSBC was not bailed out. It is the largest bank in the world and last year the bank paid £1.1billion in Corporation tax alone. Let alone direct taxes from employees working at its Corporate HQ.

There corporation tax bill is nothing compared to there fines for illegal activities.

There fine by the us for money laundering was 2 billion!"
.

Oh and I forgot the 2.6 billion the five banks paid for rigging libor of which hsbc was the ring leader!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

HSBC moving out of Britain..?

Do you mean the "HongKong and Shanghai Banking Corporation" that already does 80% of it's trading abroad?

So where do you suspect that its profits etc go at the moment...?

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By *anchestercubMan
over a year ago

manchester & NI

1) HSBC was not bailed out. It is the largest bank in the world and last year the bank paid £1.1billion in Corporation tax alone. Let alone direct taxes from employees working at its Corporate HQ.

Strange, HSBC Holdings plc results show a corporation tax payment to the UK of $69m, $15m of which were adjustments for previous years, in 2014.

I can see that they paid £1.1bn for the period of 4 years from 2009 to 2012 from Thisismoney.

Do you have a link by any chance for the £1.1bn in 2014? I could be looking at the wrong thing.

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By *oo hot OP Couple
over a year ago

North West

1) HSBC was not bailed out. It is the largest bank in the world and last year the bank paid £1.1billion in Corporation tax alone. Let alone direct taxes from employees working at its Corporate HQ.

Strange, HSBC Holdings plc results show a corporation tax payment to the UK of $69m, $15m of which were adjustments for previous years, in 2014.

I can see that they paid £1.1bn for the period of 4 years from 2009 to 2012 from Thisismoney.

Do you have a link by any chance for the £1.1bn in 2014? I could be looking at the wrong thing. "

You are correct, I misread the "this is money" article. £1.1 billion over a four year period.

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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago

Bristol

"Looks like the straw has now broken the camels back and the UK wide anti-banking rhetoric has finally resulted in a bank taking action and looking to move to a more bank friendly jurisdiction.

This under a relatively bank friendly conservative led coalition government! Is this the beginning of the end of London being a worldwide financial centre?

Ah, well never mind. We can always go back to sending 15 year old boys hundreds of feet underground to get coal. "

Goodness, you can't even tell a fib straight, can you?

Anti-bank rhetoric, you say! What you consider to be anti-bank rhetoric, most reasonable people consider to be observing criminality.

From the BBC:

'HSBC's profit dropped 17% in 2014. HSBC blamed its "challenging year" on the $2.4bn it was forced to pay in fines and settlements in relation to foreign exchange manipulation and mis-selling of payment protection insurance.

The scandal-hit bank has also faced allegations that it helped people evade UK tax using hidden HSBC accounts in Geneva.'

We must try harder to be nicer to these rich criminals!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The papers will be dropping bombs over the next couple of weeks. If HSBC want to fuck off, I'm happy to drive them to the airport. This is just election blah blah.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It is all about avoiding the £1bn bank levy they were charged last year. They will still have to pay Corp Tax on their UK operations, but if they leave, the UK will be £1bn a year worse off. There are plenty of jurisdictions that will welcome them with open arms irrespective of their somewhat dubious corporate ethics.

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By *oo hot OP Couple
over a year ago

North West

"The papers will be dropping bombs over the next couple of weeks. If HSBC want to fuck off, I'm happy to drive them to the airport. This is just election blah blah. "

As a matter of interest. What has it got to do with the election? You are not the first person to say it but I cant see any connection whatsoever to the election.

It is a non political story.

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By *erbyDalesCplCouple
over a year ago

Derbyshire

"I thought HSBC were moving their HQ from London to Birmingham, in a a report last month? "

To be fair, to Londoners, Birmingham IS another country.

Mrs ddc once uttered the immortal words (when coming home from visiting her family) "It's amazing how far north Watford Gap actually is"

HSBC started as an Asian bank, and are worried more about the implications about leaving the EU. So their review is actually a feint against Cameron rather than Milliband. (According to the press I read)

Mr ddc

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By *anchestercubMan
over a year ago

manchester & NI

It is a non political story."

I don't think that's clear yet.

The levy on bank balance sheets seems to be one of the biggest possible reasons for the move.

For all I know, the shareholders could feel their ROI is best served from outside the UK if the banks will be made to pay more.

Not all political statements have to be overt, but that doesn't mean they're not being made.

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By *atietvsheffTV/TS
over a year ago

Sheffield

HSBC is a massive global bank but not massive in retail banking in the UK, yes a big 4 but not massive. Most of the profits as stated before come from global operations, corporation tax is payable in the UK as is many millions if not billions in UK income tax for its employees. It's distributed profits sit with shareholders and as the yields are 5%+ that means a hell of a lot of additional tax paid via self assessments plus income distributed to the vast majority of pension funds that no doubts many FAbsters are members of. Globally HSBC retail banking is not huge only the UK and Hong Kong realistic all have any size as most of the other smaller units have been sold over the last 5 years, HSBC is more about commercial and corporate banking and it's the retail deposits that fund those businesses which is where the profits come from. It would not surprise me to see HSBC sell its retail arm in the UK and it to emerge back as Midland bank, it only really uses the UK for trading hours based upon where we sit on the meridian, we open as the Far East closes and we are online when the U.S. Markets open, it was a close call 5 years ago whether to move to HK which the CEO pretty much did. Saying good riddance to HSBC etc is a tad naive as is thinking a conspiracy theory around the election.HSBC will do what is best for its shareholders en of, if that means exiting the UK for a lower tax burden they will and another economy will pick up that tax to use for its citizens benefits, there are though few countries who could afford to have HSBC take up residency as they are such a massive business of things went wrong with HSBC and they needed support most economies couldn't underpin them as they are so big, I know for a fact Switzerland refused to have them as if HSBC faltered it could bring down a countries economy, be careful what you wish for as any lost taxes need to be made up somewhere and that usually falls on us the tax payer to bridge the gap in the economy. As an ex Snr manager of HSBC I do speak from a position of knowledge.

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By *anchestercubMan
over a year ago

manchester & NI

1 - The UK doesn't receive corporation tax take on HSBC global profits.

2 - We only received the £ equivalent of $54m for last year.

3 - The UK retail banking network will stay open, although possibly as a different brand.

4 - Any UK shareholders will still have to pay tax on their dividends from Hong Kong (unless they're non-doms).

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Let them go back to Hong Kong where they started out, most of their business is carried out abroad anyway

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The banks will never leave London, they love London because it's the most corrupt financial hub, like having Rehypothecation of assets, they can sell and sell and sell the same asset again and again.

Who the fuck wouldn't love the ability to sell the same item a thousand times?.

Of course when it all goes tits up, like it did and will continue to do, be prepared to get the cheque book out again!.

There is no morals and ethics in capital, it does what it does!

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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago

Bristol

If you are wealthy, London is one of the best places, and arguably the best place, in the world to live.

If the rich think they can find that elsewhere, let them take their businesses and go. Any other considerations are just so much spin by interested idiots to scare people into tugging their forelocks. And how it works!

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

I think if we get a party governing in coalition that supports a referendum, then the uncertainty in the business world, due to potential EU exit, is going to disrupt investment here.

£millions is invested here, for example, by the Japanese - who could, for example, move car production etc over to the mainland.

Why there hasn't been closer scrutiny on the potential fallout from a referendum has surprised me.

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By *bi HaiveMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Cheeseville, Somerset

"Looks like the straw has now broken the camels back and the UK wide anti-banking rhetoric has finally resulted in a bank taking action and looking to move to a more bank friendly jurisdiction.

This under a relatively bank friendly conservative led coalition government! Is this the beginning of the end of London being a worldwide financial centre?

Ah, well never mind. We can always go back to sending 15 year old boys hundreds of feet underground to get coal.

Goodness, you can't even tell a fib straight, can you?

Anti-bank rhetoric, you say! What you consider to be anti-bank rhetoric, most reasonable people consider to be observing criminality.

From the BBC:

The scandal-hit bank has also faced allegations that it helped people evade UK tax using hidden HSBC accounts in Geneva.'

We must try harder to be nicer to these rich criminals!"

Like any business of this size - don't forget it'll be about 1% of employees that are in such positions of power that they benefit from corruption, illegal practices, massive bonuses and huge salaries.

The other 99%?

Yeah - they deserve tarnishing with the quite frankly disgusting labels that the minority deserve don't they.

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By *oo hot OP Couple
over a year ago

North West

"I think if we get a party governing in coalition that supports a referendum, then the uncertainty in the business world, due to potential EU exit, is going to disrupt investment here.

£millions is invested here, for example, by the Japanese - who could, for example, move car production etc over to the mainland.

Why there hasn't been closer scrutiny on the potential fallout from a referendum has surprised me."

I do agree with you about this. Having said that, I believe that Cameron is pro European and I think that between himself and the opposition parties they would easily influence the referendum result.

That said, I doubt that there would be a referendum anyway without a conservative majority and that seems unlikely.

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By *he tactile technicianMan
over a year ago

the good lands, the bad lands, the any where you may want me lands

sabre rattling, they're pissed that they've been shown to be as tardy in their business as the rest of the banking fraternity

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By *yrdwomanWoman
over a year ago

Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum

HSBC is an acronym for Hong Kong and Shanghai Banking Corporation. Just because they bought out the Midland Bank, doesn't mean they are British. And if any of their fat cat bosses pay as much tax as they're supposed to (especially knowing HSBCs record for helping people avoid tax) I'll eat my entire wardrobe.

Good riddance.

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

As others have suggested, they won't say it... But it's about their own self interest and tax than it is about anything else..... After all, if they know about the hsbc Swiss bank that was set up for tax avoidance..... Then why should we believe anything else they say

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By *iss_Samantha_LovecockTV/TS
over a year ago

bmth /poole sometimes blandford

so you think this is the end of life as we know it ..the collapse of a civilized society ?

they can all fuck off as far im concerned ..things could do with a bit of a shake up around here..

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By *cankeepMan
over a year ago

Norwich

"Hmm.

I don't suppose it would be too fastidious of me to say the General Election is only 3 weeks away. ....

You're right, it's not too fastidious to say that, as it's less than 2 weeks away.

Or did you mean obvious?

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