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"I've never understood why it exists. Does anyone know the origin of it? " William Beveridge's report during WW2 | |||
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"I've never understood why it exists. Does anyone know the origin of it? " http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/8041636/Child-Benefit-history.html | |||
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"I've never understood why it exists. Does anyone know the origin of it? " think it started in the war. I do think its a benefit we could do without in comparison to other cut backs. As for keeping mental health units open, don't even get me started on that. In fact no I'm not going to start cause I won't stop but they need to provide acute care to acute patients at the bloody time the patient is suffering acute problems whether its in a unit, support workers, cpn but they need to be treated immediately. | |||
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"To be honest pensioners are the biggest drain on tge benefits bill. If they didn't have the foresight to plan for old age why should we pick up the bill?" Isn't that what we pay national insurance for every month out our wages? | |||
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"I've never understood why it exists. Does anyone know the origin of it? " it was an incentive for people to have more children (make the population bigger)enabling governments to borrow more money from other countries on the strength of these children reaching 18 and paying tax's and enabling the loans to be payed back.... and of course the government will benefit from each paying tax even if there no outstanding loan... | |||
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"Think the whole benefits system should be completely overhauled. Let's out the feckless and undeserving that hide behind pseudo illness. Paying benefits to those who are in need of it the most not those who milk it. " This is what they are trying to do, but are targeting the genuine claimers, making them even more ill. I agree with 2wheels. | |||
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"I've never understood why it exists. Does anyone know the origin of it? it was an incentive for people to have more children (make the population bigger)enabling governments to borrow more money from other countries on the strength of these children reaching 18 and paying tax's and enabling the loans to be payed back.... and of course the government will benefit from each paying tax even if there no outstanding loan... " Thats a "FACT" | |||
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"I've never understood why it exists. Does anyone know the origin of it? think it started in the war. I do think its a benefit we could do without in comparison to other cut backs. As for keeping mental health units open, don't even get me started on that. In fact no I'm not going to start cause I won't stop but they need to provide acute care to acute patients at the bloody time the patient is suffering acute problems whether its in a unit, support workers, cpn but they need to be treated immediately. " Here here! The mental health service is more than useless. It's ok saying there is help out there, but until you are in the situation where you need the help, you see that it barely exists. | |||
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"To be honest pensioners are the biggest drain on tge benefits bill. If they didn't have the foresight to plan for old age why should we pick up the bill? Isn't that what we pay national insurance for every month out our wages?" Of course I was just trying to get in to the spirit of these benefits threads. Have I gone to far? Should I have played it safe and attacked immigrants or the sick? | |||
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"To be honest pensioners are the biggest drain on tge benefits bill. If they didn't have the foresight to plan for old age why should we pick up the bill? Isn't that what we pay national insurance for every month out our wages? Of course I was just trying to get in to the spirit of these benefits threads. Have I gone to far? Should I have played it safe and attacked immigrants or the sick? " Oh gotcha You do realise people are genuinely agreeing with you don't you | |||
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"To be honest pensioners are the biggest drain on tge benefits bill. If they didn't have the foresight to plan for old age why should we pick up the bill?" Wow.... Kind of controversial.... I get you and where you are coming from but the population at large is made up of ordinary folk who have never been told that they should make private arrangements, nor have they had the motivation to do so either. I think that there is something to be said about mandatory pension savings starting in "X" years time but this needs to be introduced by legislation and a good few years ahead. For example, you could say that anyone born after 2020 will at no time in their lifetime qualify for a state pension and mandate the provision of private/workplace pensions from 2038. | |||
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"To be honest pensioners are the biggest drain on tge benefits bill. If they didn't have the foresight to plan for old age why should we pick up the bill?" That's a bit harsh , they have paid in over many years and surely deserve something back ? Means testing is the solution for many of the benefits out there . So many people receive benefits and don't need them ( young and old alike ) Going back to the op , it's like anything , it's easy to give but difficult to take away . We lost so many good young men during the war , and to encourage repopulation the child benefit was introduced . Certainly no need at all for it now , but imagine any party saying they are going to take it away ! | |||
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"How about we emphasise the terminally ill? It'll make huge savings to the benefits bill and the NHS? " Please don't I'll loose my job | |||
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" Going back to the op , it's like anything , it's easy to give but difficult to take away . We lost so many good young men during the war , and to encourage repopulation the child benefit was introduced . Certainly no need at all for it now , but imagine any party saying they are going to take it away !" Ohh yes the backlash would be massive from some elements of our society & the Press .. But I think they would also get a lot of support from ppl who can see it's an out dated Benifit & a drain on the finances.. | |||
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"To be honest pensioners are the biggest drain on tge benefits bill. If they didn't have the foresight to plan for old age why should we pick up the bill? Isn't that what we pay national insurance for every month out our wages? Of course I was just trying to get in to the spirit of these benefits threads. Have I gone to far? Should I have played it safe and attacked immigrants or the sick? Oh gotcha You do realise people are genuinely agreeing with you don't you " Yeah I know I'm sick of people attacking the poorest and most vulnerable in society on benefits threads. I naively thought tgat some ridicilouslu outrageous comments might detract from the normal hate fuellwd bile no fan the flames | |||
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"National insurance payments of the past bear no resemblance to what pensions and other pensioner benefits amount to now. Taxpayers today have to pay that inflated difference. I don't understand how it's fair to ring fence one group, and also guarantee them an increase year on year when other groups are being told tough shit, starve! " Pppssssssssttttt.... It's because 1 set of people are more likely to vote in elections (those darn pensioners) that another...(youngster) If young people knew that and bothered to mass.. My God would some policy ideas me scrapped quick smart..... Me personally.. I wouldn't scrap child benefit... But would stop payment on the after the third occasion someone had children ( saves that what happens if someone had twins/triplets/quads question) | |||
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"To be honest pensioners are the biggest drain on tge benefits bill. If they didn't have the foresight to plan for old age why should we pick up the bill? Isn't that what we pay national insurance for every month out our wages? Of course I was just trying to get in to the spirit of these benefits threads. Have I gone to far? Should I have played it safe and attacked immigrants or the sick? Oh gotcha You do realise people are genuinely agreeing with you don't you Yeah I know I'm sick of people attacking the poorest and most vulnerable in society on benefits threads. I naively thought tgat some ridicilouslu outrageous comments might detract from the normal hate fuellwd bile no fan the flames" I was thinking that was out of character. You genuinely had me worried there!! | |||
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"Think the whole benefits system should be completely overhauled. Let's out the feckless and undeserving that hide behind pseudo illness. Paying benefits to those who are in need of it the most not those who milk it. " | |||
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"To be honest pensioners are the biggest drain on tge benefits bill. If they didn't have the foresight to plan for old age why should we pick up the bill? Isn't that what we pay national insurance for every month out our wages? Of course I was just trying to get in to the spirit of these benefits threads. Have I gone to far? Should I have played it safe and attacked immigrants or the sick? Oh gotcha You do realise people are genuinely agreeing with you don't you Yeah I know I'm sick of people attacking the poorest and most vulnerable in society on benefits threads. I naively thought tgat some ridicilouslu outrageous comments might detract from the normal hate fuellwd bile no fan the flames I was thinking that was out of character. You genuinely had me worried there!! " I'll admit that I had to look twice to check the poster name. | |||
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"They should put strong contraceptives in alcopops. " Ooh I am likely this idea.. Sterilise the people for bad taste in alcohol..... Can we add lambrini, cheap cider, and own brand beers to the list..... | |||
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"They should put strong contraceptives in alcopops. " I thought they already did. I know I'm useless after 10 bottles of Newky Brown... | |||
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"I've never understood why it exists. Does anyone know the origin of it? " http://www.revenuebenefits.org.uk/child-benefit/policy/where_it_all_started/ | |||
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"So basically poor people have no rights to a family? I get what you're saying in that people should provide for their kids, but until there is a fair monetary system in place then this just isn't possible. " Everyone has a right to start a family!! Just don't expect the State to supplement you with this Benifit anymore!!!! As for the "poor" why would you bring a child into poverty? | |||
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"So basically poor people have no rights to a family? I get what you're saying in that people should provide for their kids, but until there is a fair monetary system in place then this just isn't possible. Everyone has a right to start a family!! Just don't expect the State to supplement you with this Benifit anymore!!!! As for the "poor" why would you bring a child into poverty?" So only rich people can have children? | |||
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"So basically poor people have no rights to a family? I get what you're saying in that people should provide for their kids, but until there is a fair monetary system in place then this just isn't possible. Everyone has a right to start a family!! Just don't expect the State to supplement you with this Benifit anymore!!!! As for the "poor" why would you bring a child into poverty?" Why does poverty exist when there's no need for it to? | |||
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"We could always take money from the rich instead of the poor " Crazy idea. | |||
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"We could always take money from the rich instead of the poor " Makes perfect sense! | |||
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"We could always take money from the rich instead of the poor " "Outrageous " LOL | |||
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"Well we are self employed working hard but we don't make money and we have kids.. So both of us work for ourselves would you stop our child benefiT??." The question wasn't about taking benifits away from ppl who already had them.. It was asking should a new government say after a certain date stop all new claims for this Benifit.. | |||
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"To be honest pensioners are the biggest drain on tge benefits bill. If they didn't have the foresight to plan for old age why should we pick up the bill?" Haven't the vast majority of them paid NI for most of their adult life and therefore have prepared for their retirement!!!! | |||
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"So basically poor people have no rights to a family? I get what you're saying in that people should provide for their kids, but until there is a fair monetary system in place then this just isn't possible. Everyone has a right to start a family!! Just don't expect the State to supplement you with this Benifit anymore!!!! As for the "poor" why would you bring a child into poverty?" BenEfit not benifit. Child benefit is £20 a week for the first child and about £13 for subsequent children. It's already means tested so only families under the threshold will receive it. The people that think it's only £20 a week which is pointless may as well get rid of it, those people obviously haven't been on their arse skint and don't know that little £20 could be the difference between that person having gas or electric that week. As for bringing a child into poverty, accidents can happen with contraception, should that person then be forced to go through the trauma of an abortion just because they aren't earning mega bucks? | |||
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"To be honest pensioners are the biggest drain on tge benefits bill. If they didn't have the foresight to plan for old age why should we pick up the bill?" Why not go the whole hog an put us down like a dog when we reach 65yrs of age. | |||
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"So basically poor people have no rights to a family? I get what you're saying in that people should provide for their kids, but until there is a fair monetary system in place then this just isn't possible. Everyone has a right to start a family!! Just don't expect the State to supplement you with this Benifit anymore!!!! As for the "poor" why would you bring a child into poverty? BenEfit not benifit. Child benefit is £20 a week for the first child and about £13 for subsequent children. It's already means tested so only families under the threshold will receive it. The people that think it's only £20 a week which is pointless may as well get rid of it, those people obviously haven't been on their arse skint and don't know that little £20 could be the difference between that person having gas or electric that week. As for bringing a child into poverty, accidents can happen with contraception, should that person then be forced to go through the trauma of an abortion just because they aren't earning mega bucks? " | |||
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"To be honest pensioners are the biggest drain on tge benefits bill. If they didn't have the foresight to plan for old age why should we pick up the bill? Why not go the whole hog an put us down like a dog when we reach 65yrs of age." Having seen what happens in old age and how the state treats some of the most vulnerable elderly people in our society I might just take that as an option! | |||
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"Yeah but think about the situation. Later on if say me and sassy had a kid but self employed but not earning enough would you still give us child support I think people on benefits play the system but it's not fair on the people that actually need it... Xxx" If you were working but not earning enough then wouldn't you be able to claim something like the working families tax credits? The thing is why do we still give Billions out a year to ppl for there children when its people's choice to have children & they should be able to support them. | |||
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"Yeah but think about the situation. Later on if say me and sassy had a kid but self employed but not earning enough would you still give us child support I think people on benefits play the system but it's not fair on the people that actually need it... Xxx If you were working but not earning enough then wouldn't you be able to claim something like the working families tax credits? The thing is why do we still give Billions out a year to ppl for there children when its people's choice to have children & they should be able to support them." So you don't mind child and working tax credit being given out but not child benefit? You do know child tax credit can be around £60 a week for a lone parent, working tax credit for lone parents is meant for single parent families to find part time hours to fit around their children and the working tax credit bumps up their earnings to that of someone working full time. You could get £100 a week or more of working tax credit but that's fine yeah you just object to the £20 a week child benefit? You would need a child benefit reference number to make a claim to tax credits. We live in a democratic society that's why we give money to those that need it most, we aren't a third world country where it's acceptable for the poorest people to die in the gutters. | |||
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"To be honest pensioners are the biggest drain on tge benefits bill. If they didn't have the foresight to plan for old age why should we pick up the bill?" Perhaps you should have the foresight to see that the standard old age pension is in fact being disbanded. No government can abolish the pension overnight because those at pension age or near pension age will not have time to make other arrangements. What instead is happening is employers are having to provide a workplace pension scheme for their employees to ensure they are provided for in the future. | |||
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"What I mean is if your unemployed and are not pregnant then if you start a family knowing your unemployed then child benefit shouldn't be given... If your working and start a family then became unemployed through no fault of your own then they should get child benefit... " But then you'd have an even worse problem, a woman would steal from a shop, sell her ass or mug someone to fund a drug habit, imagine what a woman would do to enable the survival or herself and her child? Also as I mentioned earlier, accidents can happen with contraception, you can't make people have abortions, neither should they be penalised because of their employment status. The woman could be unemployed but the partner could be working, that same partner could be controlling or have a drink or drugs problem and be reckless with money, that 20 quid child benefit could be all the woman gets to make sure nappies are bought and milk or whatever. | |||
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"Surely you could find someone less worthy of public money than children? The fact that thousands of children live in poverty in such a rich country is a disgrace to remove child benefit would only make it worse. " | |||
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"As a single man,the thought of contributing to the success of other people's children is a positive one.... now whether the parents spend the money on the child and it's upbringing, or a packets of fags and a bottle of wine. I don't overly worry about that, it is the parents that need to rationalise that in their minds..... Many will..... a select few.: No" Takes a community to raise a child. | |||
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"The thing is,we are in debt because our banks and government got complacent,greedy or whatever they call it. There must be other ways of reducing our outgoings and increasing our income than taking a tenner a week off families. " There is. Go after the the super rich and (more importantly) the super rich tax dodgers. Job done. Everyone's happy! | |||
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"Looking at it from another angle. Poor people who need benefits could be limited to one child,the child would probably not contribute much to society as it gets older;maybe a job as a cleaner or waitress or other menial jobs. Encourage intelligent,rich people to have 2 or more children and populate the country with intelligent,productive human beings. We get the labour force we need from the poor and the money makers from the rich. " This is a piss take comment isn't it? | |||
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"Looking at it from another angle. Poor people who need benefits could be limited to one child,the child would probably not contribute much to society as it gets older;maybe a job as a cleaner or waitress or other menial jobs. Encourage intelligent,rich people to have 2 or more children and populate the country with intelligent,productive human beings. We get the labour force we need from the poor and the money makers from the rich. " That's pretty disgusting to be honest! What a horrible world that would be! | |||
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"Put the poor children to work in sweat shops,undercut the overseas companies,make our own trainers,jeans etc and no need for child benefit. " Please be sarcasm as apposed to stupidity lol | |||
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"Looking at it from another angle. Poor people who need benefits could be limited to one child,the child would probably not contribute much to society as it gets older;maybe a job as a cleaner or waitress or other menial jobs. Encourage intelligent,rich people to have 2 or more children and populate the country with intelligent,productive human beings. We get the labour force we need from the poor and the money makers from the rich. This is a piss take comment isn't it?" Yes,what if it happens though? China did a similar thing. | |||
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"Put the poor children to work in sweat shops,undercut the overseas companies,make our own trainers,jeans etc and no need for child benefit. Please be sarcasm as apposed to stupidity lol " Lol I'll stop now | |||
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"Looking at it from another angle. Poor people who need benefits could be limited to one child,the child would probably not contribute much to society as it gets older;maybe a job as a cleaner or waitress or other menial jobs. Encourage intelligent,rich people to have 2 or more children and populate the country with intelligent,productive human beings. We get the labour force we need from the poor and the money makers from the rich. This is a piss take comment isn't it? Yes,what if it happens though? China did a similar thing. " Not for those reasons though You can still only have one child in China if you have a good job | |||
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"Looking at it from another angle. Poor people who need benefits could be limited to one child,the child would probably not contribute much to society as it gets older;maybe a job as a cleaner or waitress or other menial jobs. Encourage intelligent,rich people to have 2 or more children and populate the country with intelligent,productive human beings. We get the labour force we need from the poor and the money makers from the rich. That's pretty disgusting to be honest! What a horrible world that would be! " For the poor who are,let's face it,sub-intelligent,scrounging low lifes according to some people. People with genetic diseases should be sterilised,don't want them passing on them genes that cost a lot to us in medical care do we? | |||
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"Looking at it from another angle. Poor people who need benefits could be limited to one child,the child would probably not contribute much to society as it gets older;maybe a job as a cleaner or waitress or other menial jobs. Encourage intelligent,rich people to have 2 or more children and populate the country with intelligent,productive human beings. We get the labour force we need from the poor and the money makers from the rich. This is a piss take comment isn't it? Yes,what if it happens though? China did a similar thing. Not for those reasons though You can still only have one child in China if you have a good job" I don't know what financial incentives they got but I was under the impression you just didn't get any financial help if you had more than one child. I'm not really that informed about China I'm afraid. Another thread maybe. | |||
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"Looking at it from another angle. Poor people who need benefits could be limited to one child,the child would probably not contribute much to society as it gets older;maybe a job as a cleaner or waitress or other menial jobs. Encourage intelligent,rich people to have 2 or more children and populate the country with intelligent,productive human beings. We get the labour force we need from the poor and the money makers from the rich. That's pretty disgusting to be honest! What a horrible world that would be! For the poor who are,let's face it,sub-intelligent,scrounging low lifes according to some people. People with genetic diseases should be sterilised,don't want them passing on them genes that cost a lot to us in medical care do we? " I still can't tell if your being serious? | |||
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"To be honest pensioners are the biggest drain on tge benefits bill. If they didn't have the foresight to plan for old age why should we pick up the bill? Isn't that what we pay national insurance for every month out our wages?" . Yes but a lot of pensioners are currently receiving pensions which are way in excess of the contributions which they have made . It might be better if the government ring fenced the pension element of National Insurance contributions and made pension payments based on the value of contributions actually made . | |||
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"Come May 7th or the day after the next government are going to want to balance the books!! Now we already have the high earners not receiving this once universal Benifit should the next government say enough is enough? If you want to have children it's your responsibility to provide for them and we are scrapping child Benifit for all new claimants after say Aptil 1st 2016 that way the Benifit bill goes down each year for the next 18 years & the money saved could be used for keeping open some of the mental health units ?" . It should be stopped at a maximum of two children. Those who choose to have more than two should be expected to fund them themselves . | |||
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"So basically poor people have no rights to a family? I get what you're saying in that people should provide for their kids, but until there is a fair monetary system in place then this just isn't possible. Everyone has a right to start a family!! Just don't expect the State to supplement you with this Benifit anymore!!!! As for the "poor" why would you bring a child into poverty?" if u want a family provide for them. I'm pregnant with my 3rd and we work our butt's off to provide. | |||
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"To be honest pensioners are the biggest drain on tge benefits bill. If they didn't have the foresight to plan for old age why should we pick up the bill? Haven't the vast majority of them paid NI for most of their adult life and therefore have prepared for their retirement!!!!" My OH retires in 7 years unless i get him to go earlier. He works on average 20 hours a week on top of the usual 37.5h week. He pays a fortune in tax & NI and has earned his pension. Lets cap the benefits of people who dont work, have a new baby every 18months & never paid for a packet of nappies in their life. Yet they have shiny phones & trendy trainers & arent partial to doing a foreigner but wont sign off for that wage. Lets out the parasites & help those who need it. For those thinking pensioners shouldnt have a pension just remember these burdens went to war with death facing them daily. They earned not just our respect they earned our loyalty too Mrs _d40 | |||
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"But then you'd have an even worse problem, a woman would steal from a shop, sell her ass or mug someone to fund a drug habit, imagine what a woman would do to enable the survival or herself and her child? Also as I mentioned earlier, accidents can happen with contraception, you can't make people have abortions, neither should they be penalised because of their employment status. The woman could be unemployed but the partner could be working, that same partner could be controlling or have a drink or drugs problem and be reckless with money, that 20 quid child benefit could be all the woman gets to make sure nappies are bought and milk or whatever. " from what im aware/told is that used to happen a long time ago where the father used to control all the money in the household and therefore the child was sent to school in whatever they was sent in there was outrage at the schools as the school had to have basic uniforms, mothers made it very clear not in there name so couldnt afford to clothe them as the d*unk father was in the pub with the money hence the reason why the women are paid the child benefit as they was the homemaker and had to make the children where school uniform for school further more the women complained that they needed the child payment for the first child no the second as the first child stuff would pass to the second child hence why it changed in 1977 | |||
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"To be honest pensioners are the biggest drain on tge benefits bill. If they didn't have the foresight to plan for old age why should we pick up the bill?" Because they've worked and paid into the system all their lives... the people we shouldn't be picking up any bills for are those that have never worked or immigrants that haven't paid enough in. They're the real drain on society. And those in prison should have to do something for their 'keep'. | |||
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" For those thinking pensioners shouldnt have a pension just remember these burdens went to war with death facing them daily. They earned not just our respect they earned our loyalty too Mrs _d40" Anyone under the age of 85 (as the vast majority of pensioners will be) did not 'go to war with death facing them daily'. | |||
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" Because they've worked and paid into the system all their lives... " But how much have they paid? In 1980 the average salary was about £6,000. Most people don't even earn the national average salary. But if we take the 1980 figure to show average earnings for 10 years between 1975 to 1985 and we factor in 10% NIC then in that 10 years they would pay what they claim now in just 1 year of state pension and benefits. It is inflated well beyond what the average person would have paid and that difference is paid by taxpayers today. Whether you think it's right or wrong, most pensioners, pound for pound, get out far more than they've paid in. | |||
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" Because they've worked and paid into the system all their lives... But how much have they paid? In 1980 the average salary was about £6,000. Most people don't even earn the national average salary. But if we take the 1980 figure to show average earnings for 10 years between 1975 to 1985 and we factor in 10% NIC then in that 10 years they would pay what they claim now in just 1 year of state pension and benefits. It is inflated well beyond what the average person would have paid and that difference is paid by taxpayers today. Whether you think it's right or wrong, most pensioners, pound for pound, get out far more than they've paid in. " Let me ask you a question picture this Your gran aged 80. Didn't work as stayed at home with the children. Your grandad god love him worked but didn't earn a lot . He passed away 5 years ago. Your gran doesn't have savings as they were used for his funeral. She gets her state pension and a little bit of help around her house. However 8th of May she's told it's being taken away. How do you feel about that? Where would it leave her? So many say they drain resources but they are vulnerable and we should be proud to be a country who ensures they are not ignored . That's the reality. It's life for millions of people all over the UK. Not sure any policy maker or some of the judgemental people on this thread are aware of it. So long as they are okay and seen as right. | |||
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" Because they've worked and paid into the system all their lives... But how much have they paid? In 1980 the average salary was about £6,000. Most people don't even earn the national average salary. But if we take the 1980 figure to show average earnings for 10 years between 1975 to 1985 and we factor in 10% NIC then in that 10 years they would pay what they claim now in just 1 year of state pension and benefits. It is inflated well beyond what the average person would have paid and that difference is paid by taxpayers today. Whether you think it's right or wrong, most pensioners, pound for pound, get out far more than they've paid in. Let me ask you a question picture this Your gran aged 80. Didn't work as stayed at home with the children. Your grandad god love him worked but didn't earn a lot . He passed away 5 years ago. Your gran doesn't have savings as they were used for his funeral. She gets her state pension and a little bit of help around her house. However 8th of May she's told it's being taken away. How do you feel about that? Where would it leave her? So many say they drain resources but they are vulnerable and we should be proud to be a country who ensures they are not ignored . That's the reality. It's life for millions of people all over the UK. Not sure any policy maker or some of the judgemental people on this thread are aware of it. So long as they are okay and seen as right. " Bang on there Girl People seem to forget that the Pension situation was fucked up by the Government and local Authorities being sucked in by high yield hi risk investments..Think Icelandic. As for Child Benefit yes lets stop it and put the Money to better use such as Propping up the Euro and paying Quangos unfathomable millions to tell us where we are going wrong and wasting the Money. Yup that will work. Gimp | |||
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" Because they've worked and paid into the system all their lives... But how much have they paid? In 1980 the average salary was about £6,000. Most people don't even earn the national average salary. But if we take the 1980 figure to show average earnings for 10 years between 1975 to 1985 and we factor in 10% NIC then in that 10 years they would pay what they claim now in just 1 year of state pension and benefits. It is inflated well beyond what the average person would have paid and that difference is paid by taxpayers today. Whether you think it's right or wrong, most pensioners, pound for pound, get out far more than they've paid in. Let me ask you a question picture this Your gran aged 80. Didn't work as stayed at home with the children. Your grandad god love him worked but didn't earn a lot . He passed away 5 years ago. Your gran doesn't have savings as they were used for his funeral. She gets her state pension and a little bit of help around her house. However 8th of May she's told it's being taken away. How do you feel about that? Where would it leave her? So many say they drain resources but they are vulnerable and we should be proud to be a country who ensures they are not ignored . That's the reality. It's life for millions of people all over the UK. Not sure any policy maker or some of the judgemental people on this thread are aware of it. So long as they are okay and seen as right. " Firstly - you're assuming every pensioner is vulnerable - I don't buy that argument. Secondly - you're assuming I want to take away the pension of anyone who hasn't contributed, which I didn't say and don't endorse. Thirdly - my posts were alluding to the double standard currently being used in the discourse around benefits and social security. If the current thinking is that feckless people are those who have not contributed to the system yet take from it then the pensioner in your example matches that description. Now populist discussion has revolved around the fact that people who take without not paying in are scroungers and that their benefits should be reduced or stopped altogether. In what way does that 80 year old granny differ from someone on the sick with mental health issues? Both haven't been paying into the system but receiving from it. Yet one of them is derided and demagogued, had their income reduced and likely reduced further - yet the other keeps getting increases. Now both are vulnerable, both are taking out more than they've put in, both have bills to pay and food to buy. So why is one judged to a different standard than the other? My comments were not that pensioners are the bane of socialism. My point is that it's hard to have a policy described as 'fair' when one group is judged to a different standard, and treated more favourably than another. And pensioners provide the best evidence of that point for want of a better example. | |||
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"I've never understood why it exists. Does anyone know the origin of it? " Because if you don't give it thwm they still get pregnant but then parade through the papers blaming everyone that thier child is starving | |||
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"To be honest pensioners are the biggest drain on tge benefits bill. If they didn't have the foresight to plan for old age why should we pick up the bill?" They did have the fore sight they planned through the state pension that was promised to them. The fact that it was unsustainable is not the fault of the pensioners but rhe government for continuing to promise unrealistic things an keep shunting the bill down the line. One key thing though is pensioners vote young people do not hence pensioners get catered. | |||
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"Weed out the parasites and immigrants, stop all their payments, don't let anymore in the country, and then introduce Australian rules. Oh, and while I'm ranting, those that want to go and fight for IS, carry on. But take their passport off them as they leave. UKIP!! " The majority of immigrants are net contributors the majority of people born here are net receivers. So if you boot out the "parasites" you'll mostly be kicking out the working class British folk. | |||
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"Weed out the parasites and immigrants, stop all their payments, don't let anymore in the country, and then introduce Australian rules. Oh, and while I'm ranting, those that want to go and fight for IS, carry on. But take their passport off them as they leave. UKIP!! The majority of immigrants are net contributors the majority of people born here are net receivers. So if you boot out the "parasites" you'll mostly be kicking out the working class British folk." Some people have a weird morphed version of Stockholm Syndrome - they exist in a different reality. | |||
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"Weed out the parasites and immigrants, stop all their payments, don't let anymore in the country, and then introduce Australian rules. Oh, and while I'm ranting, those that want to go and fight for IS, carry on. But take their passport off them as they leave. UKIP!! The majority of immigrants are net contributors the majority of people born here are net receivers. So if you boot out the "parasites" you'll mostly be kicking out the working class British folk. Some people have a weird morphed version of Stockholm Syndrome - they exist in a different reality. " Are you saying immigrants are holding us hostage? | |||
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" I'm a firm believer in every citizen being able to live in decency but looking back it's hard to see any retirees between 65 and 80 as the sacred cow that should be put on a pedestal. " They're the sacred cows that vote! | |||
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"Weed out the parasites and immigrants, stop all their payments, don't let anymore in the country, and then introduce Australian rules. Oh, and while I'm ranting, those that want to go and fight for IS, carry on. But take their passport off them as they leave. UKIP!! The majority of immigrants are net contributors the majority of people born here are net receivers. So if you boot out the "parasites" you'll mostly be kicking out the working class British folk. Some people have a weird morphed version of Stockholm Syndrome - they exist in a different reality. Are you saying immigrants are holding us hostage? " I think there are those who feel the country is being held hostage or exploited by immigrants yeah. That's why I said morphed version of SS, not literal SS. | |||
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"Weed out the parasites and immigrants, stop all their payments, don't let anymore in the country, and then introduce Australian rules. Oh, and while I'm ranting, those that want to go and fight for IS, carry on. But take their passport off them as they leave. UKIP!! The majority of immigrants are net contributors the majority of people born here are net receivers. So if you boot out the "parasites" you'll mostly be kicking out the working class British folk. Some people have a weird morphed version of Stockholm Syndrome - they exist in a different reality. Are you saying immigrants are holding us hostage? I think there are those who feel the country is being held hostage or exploited by immigrants yeah. That's why I said morphed version of SS, not literal SS. " But if they had Ss or anything like it they'd like the immigrants | |||
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"Weed out the parasites and immigrants, stop all their payments, don't let anymore in the country, and then introduce Australian rules. Oh, and while I'm ranting, those that want to go and fight for IS, carry on. But take their passport off them as they leave. UKIP!! The majority of immigrants are net contributors the majority of people born here are net receivers. So if you boot out the "parasites" you'll mostly be kicking out the working class British folk. Some people have a weird morphed version of Stockholm Syndrome - they exist in a different reality. Are you saying immigrants are holding us hostage? I think there are those who feel the country is being held hostage or exploited by immigrants yeah. That's why I said morphed version of SS, not literal SS. But if they had Ss or anything like it they'd like the immigrants" That's why I said weird and morphed. Loving the extra revenue but hating how it comes to be. Get illogical Mr. | |||
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" Because they've worked and paid into the system all their lives... But how much have they paid? In 1980 the average salary was about £6,000. Most people don't even earn the national average salary. But if we take the 1980 figure to show average earnings for 10 years between 1975 to 1985 and we factor in 10% NIC then in that 10 years they would pay what they claim now in just 1 year of state pension and benefits. It is inflated well beyond what the average person would have paid and that difference is paid by taxpayers today. Whether you think it's right or wrong, most pensioners, pound for pound, get out far more than they've paid in. " I take it you'll be refusing to take your state pension when it's your time then? | |||
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"Take it away from the children born here,whose families have paid into the coffers for years and send it overseas. There are lots of people abroad having children in poverty and drought stricken countries who need it. Why should we be allowed to have healthy children and they not. " Because there not born in the UK and haven't paid NI. Let there government sort it out!!! | |||
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" Because they've worked and paid into the system all their lives... But how much have they paid? In 1980 the average salary was about £6,000. Most people don't even earn the national average salary. But if we take the 1980 figure to show average earnings for 10 years between 1975 to 1985 and we factor in 10% NIC then in that 10 years they would pay what they claim now in just 1 year of state pension and benefits. It is inflated well beyond what the average person would have paid and that difference is paid by taxpayers today. Whether you think it's right or wrong, most pensioners, pound for pound, get out far more than they've paid in. I take it you'll be refusing to take your state pension when it's your time then?" I very much doubt there will be a state pension by the time I can collect it | |||
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"There are still final salary pensions now..." . Yes but now very rare in the private sector . Those in the public sector are unfunded and merelypaid ffrom taxes . Most private sector pension schemes are now defined contribution as opposed to defined benefit . | |||
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" Because they've worked and paid into the system all their lives... But how much have they paid? In 1980 the average salary was about £6,000. Most people don't even earn the national average salary. But if we take the 1980 figure to show average earnings for 10 years between 1975 to 1985 and we factor in 10% NIC then in that 10 years they would pay what they claim now in just 1 year of state pension and benefits. It is inflated well beyond what the average person would have paid and that difference is paid by taxpayers today. Whether you think it's right or wrong, most pensioners, pound for pound, get out far more than they've paid in. I take it you'll be refusing to take your state pension when it's your time then?" If I were suggesting that people should, then of course I'd do the same myself, but I didn't say that, that's just your imagination. However I would be expecting to take my fair share of the cuts. I wouldn't expect them to touch everyone but not myself. | |||
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"To be honest pensioners are the biggest drain on tge benefits bill. If they didn't have the foresight to plan for old age why should we pick up the bill?" excuse me we did plan for old age it is called national insurance which we have paid in to all our working lives, this was set up to provide a pension which is what we are claiming not a free give away by the government | |||
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