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"Unless the conservatives get an overall majority the possibility of an EU referendum is unlikely to happen. I am surprised just how little our EU membership and EU immigration has been debated in this election campaign. Does this mean that the country at large is in fact happy with an extra 200,000 - 300,000 people a year arriving? Presumably they must be as the referendum appears to be unwanted." With the exception of Farage the others have looked at the EU situation and have found that, on balance, EU membership is better than no membership. When the country is full we will no doubt pull ip the draw bridge. | |||
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"Unless the conservatives get an overall majority the possibility of an EU referendum is unlikely to happen. I am surprised just how little our EU membership and EU immigration has been debated in this election campaign. r." I think that was the plan, so as not to blow the Tories apart with in-fighting. Don't worry, we'll get it, but I think you'll be disappointed with the result... 
(Sorry, europhile here)
Mr ddc | |||
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"Unless the conservatives get an overall majority the possibility of an EU referendum is unlikely to happen. I am surprised just how little our EU membership and EU immigration has been debated in this election campaign. r. I think that was the plan, so as not to blow the Tories apart with in-fighting. Don't worry, we'll get it, but I think you'll be disappointed with the result...
(Sorry, europhile here)
Mr ddc"You would be surprised. I am totally in favour of our continued EU membership. I am just surprised at how seemingly "important" it was last year at the European election but it has hardly been given airtime at this more meaningful election. | |||
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" You would be surprised. I am totally in favour of our continued EU membership. I am just surprised at how seemingly "important" it was last year at the European election but it has hardly been given airtime at this more meaningful election." Lol, sorry. I'm too used to being the only one who wants one so we can say 'yes' and put the subject to bed for another 25 years! I think the reason is simple: Labour, LibDems, SNP, Plaid and Cameron all agree, but if Cameron admitted as much he'd haemorrhage votes, and half his party to Ukip. So his plan is actually quite clever. Keep quiet and Carry on in Europe. (Where's Sid James when you need him?) | |||
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"Unless the conservatives get an overall majority the possibility of an EU referendum is unlikely to happen. I am surprised just how little our EU membership and EU immigration has been debated in this election campaign. Does this mean that the country at large is in fact happy with an extra 200,000 - 300,000 people a year arriving? Presumably they must be as the referendum appears to be unwanted." But Cameron wont get an overall majority and he knows it. He is only promising the referendum because he knows he will never have to deliver it. Whichever way it pans out next month there will be no in out referendum. Labour majority = no referendum. Labour Lib Dem coalition = no referendum. Labour SNP coalition = no referendum. Tory Lib Dem coalition = no referendum. Tory Ukip coalition. Highly unlikely in itself = possible referendum but there will probably be just enough Tory europhiles to gang up with Labour and the Lib Dems to scupper it, so very unlikely. Tory majority. Again highly unlikely in itself but pretty much as above, and enough time (two years) to get a few minor concessions from the EU so Cameron can do his Neville Chamberlain impression and rat on it (as he has done before) They don't call him Mr Slippery for nothing. | |||
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"It's influenced in the village I live, we have been swamped out with eastern Europeans. They are a horrible bunch, constantly d*unk in the streets and market place, driving under the influence without insurance. My village was a mining village with great values and tradition now it's on its arse with no heart. So sad to see" Sounds dreadful. | |||
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"It's influenced in the village I live, we have been swamped out with eastern Europeans. They are a horrible bunch, constantly d*unk in the streets and market place, driving under the influence without insurance. My village was a mining village with great values and tradition now it's on its arse with no heart. So sad to see Sounds dreadful. " Terrible, one d*unk hit an old fellas car and just drove off. The old man was devastated and started crying! I have moved out of my home town because of them  | |||
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"Is this country not full already that's why there is such a shortage of houses ? " How can it be full when over 90% of it is countryside? | |||
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"It's influenced in the village I live, we have been swamped out with eastern Europeans. They are a horrible bunch, constantly d*unk in the streets and market place, driving under the influence without insurance. My village was a mining village with great values and tradition now it's on its arse with no heart. So sad to see Sounds dreadful. Terrible, one d*unk hit an old fellas car and just drove off. The old man was devastated and started crying! I have moved out of my home town because of them "Curse these foreigners, introducing drinking to the UK! We should have stuck with temperance. | |||
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"Is this country not full already that's why there is such a shortage of houses ? How can it be full when over 90% of it is countryside? " It's full as in there is nowhere for them to live, as in the NHS in under immense strain | |||
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"Is this country not full already that's why there is such a shortage of houses ? How can it be full when over 90% of it is countryside? " It won't be countryside the way things are going when do you say it's full when it's just full off concrete buildings and no greenery ? | |||
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"It's influenced in the village I live, we have been swamped out with eastern Europeans. They are a horrible bunch, constantly d*unk in the streets and market place, driving under the influence without insurance. My village was a mining village with great values and tradition now it's on its arse with no heart. So sad to see" and who ripped the heart out of our mining comunities ? | |||
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"Is this country not full already that's why there is such a shortage of houses ? How can it be full when over 90% of it is countryside? " If all the countryside was built on we would have no rural economy and fewer recreational opportunities. Besides, the island would sink! | |||
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"It's influenced in the village I live, we have been swamped out with eastern Europeans. They are a horrible bunch, constantly d*unk in the streets and market place, driving under the influence without insurance. My village was a mining village with great values and tradition now it's on its arse with no heart. So sad to seeand who ripped the heart out of our mining comunities ?" I'm a miner.. I know who did it and would never want a tories government! but I also don't want my child being bought up with these people | |||
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"It's influenced in the village I live, we have been swamped out with eastern Europeans. They are a horrible bunch, constantly d*unk in the streets and market place, driving under the influence without insurance. My village was a mining village with great values and tradition now it's on its arse with no heart. So sad to seeand who ripped the heart out of our mining comunities ?" Arthur Scargill. | |||
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"It's influenced in the village I live, we have been swamped out with eastern Europeans. They are a horrible bunch, constantly d*unk in the streets and market place, driving under the influence without insurance. My village was a mining village with great values and tradition now it's on its arse with no heart. So sad to seeand who ripped the heart out of our mining comunities ? Arthur Scargill." Margaret Thatcher is on Fab?!  | |||
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"Is this country not full already that's why there is such a shortage of houses ? How can it be full when over 90% of it is countryside? It's full as in there is nowhere for them to live, as in the NHS in under immense strain" The NHS has been under strain for decades, it hasn't just happened in the past 5 years. People expect Scandinavian levels of public services without the same levels of taxation. We have a growing aging population that needs a growing workforce or a serious redistribution of wealth to pay for it. If you're using lack of housing as a measure of fullness then we've been full for centuries. Supply has always been slower than demand. | |||
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"It's influenced in the village I live, we have been swamped out with eastern Europeans. They are a horrible bunch, constantly d*unk in the streets and market place, driving under the influence without insurance. My village was a mining village with great values and tradition now it's on its arse with no heart. So sad to see and who ripped the heart out of our mining comunities ?" The Green party wasn't it? With all their namby-pamby stuff about British coal being too sulphurous and causing acid rain, smog and thousands of needless deaths of young children and the elderly. Ahhh, the good old days.... (Sometimes I think nostalgia ain't what it used to be) Mr ddc | |||
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"It's influenced in the village I live, we have been swamped out with eastern Europeans. They are a horrible bunch, constantly d*unk in the streets and market place, driving under the influence without insurance. My village was a mining village with great values and tradition now it's on its arse with no heart. So sad to seeand who ripped the heart out of our mining comunities ? I'm a miner.. I know who did it and would never want a tories government! but I also don't want my child being bought up with these people " Then you have a decision to make. You can make a decision singularly based on a past experience 30 or so years ago. Or you can make a decision on what you think might be best for your children. Personally I think that this election campaign is good because it is making many people think about difficult decisions and choices that they have never previously had to consider. | |||
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"As far as I can tell most people want to remain inside the EU as on balance, the country is better off. A lot of those would like it tinkering with to some degree or another, but only a minority want to leave. "It's a while since the last in/out opinion poll but I'm sure the result was around a 50/50 split. I was always pro EU. Yes I moaned occasionally about some of the rules imposed, got pissed off with the way we sold our fishermen down the river and the waste of the CAP. I even laughed along at the more crazy ideas such as straight bananas. But overall I thought the positives outweighed the negatives. That is not the case today. The waste and fraud has reached biblical proportions, the expansion to 27 (now 28) country's along with the ill thought out Euro project have been nothing short of disastrous. Into that mix you can add that the EU is now a shrinking market and while it is easy to bang on about British exports to the EU it has to be remembered that Britain imports a damn site more from the EU than it exports. Personally I would prefer that the EU was reformed, but real root and branch reform not just tinkering around the edges, but I don't see it ever happening. So if Britain has to leave then so be it. Of course it would cause some disruption in the short term but the long term benefits would more than make up for it. | |||
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"As far as I can tell most people want to remain inside the EU as on balance, the country is better off. A lot of those would like it tinkering with to some degree or another, but only a minority want to leave. "I don't think anyone wants to leave. Even Farage is only flagging it up in the (forlorn) hope of curbing immigration. | |||
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"As far as I can tell most people want to remain inside the EU as on balance, the country is better off. A lot of those would like it tinkering with to some degree or another, but only a minority want to leave.
I don't think anyone wants to leave. Even Farage is only flagging it up in the (forlorn) hope of curbing immigration."Part of me also thinks this but then.... As a nation, we became apoplectic with rage and outrage when our MP's were seen to be claiming a few thousand extra on questionable expenses. Yet we mildly accept the corruption that is seemingly fully institutionalised and endemic within the EU. If we don't really want to leave, perhaps we should be as equally vociferous and demanding of reform in the EU? It is somewhat ironic that there is a feeling of a detached Westminster bubble? If Westminster is a bubble - what the fuck is Brussels? (dont say it... a sprout.........) | |||
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"It's influenced in the village I live, we have been swamped out with eastern Europeans. They are a horrible bunch, constantly d*unk in the streets and market place, driving under the influence without insurance. My village was a mining village with great values and tradition now it's on its arse with no heart. So sad to see" That story is in fact sad. Now in cases where this occurs we must ask , what is it the uk offers above all other European member countries that make it so attractive ?. The french border authorities gave asked the same questions. Now I'm no europhile but people forget one of the original ideas about its formation. Unity and an avoidance of war and conflict between those founding nations. This alone must make it valuable . I'm from the north mate and its sad to see these divisions . | |||
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"Most people have an opinion on a referendum, even if they know little about the potential economic effects should we leave. It's a dumb thing Imo to firstly affect the economy and jobs, in the period leading to either a referendum or leaving. Companies will pull away from here, relocating and employing people in Europe instead. Happy to drag your chances of a job or good wage Dow, whilst losing employment rights? Vote for a fruit loop swivel eyed goon, like a turkey voting for Christmas. Also equality rights have been bolstered by our membership. I think a lot of people who wish for the 'golden' days are bigots on stilts. I'm all for democracy but don't think most people will not gain sufficient understanding of the economic implications before they'd vote, which is not the right way to jeopardize others wellbeing and security, not to mention their own. " Good post | |||
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"Is this country not full already that's why there is such a shortage of houses ? How can it be full when over 90% of it is countryside? " . That's agricultural land used for growing food!!. It's not just there for you to think oooo that looks pretty... Let's build a housing estate | |||
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"They aren't going to see power again within twenty years, one would imagine that you would be trying to savour every moment! "Says you! The polls suggest it's pretty much neck and neck with the Conservatives slightly ahead on the number of MP's | |||
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"Is this country not full already that's why there is such a shortage of houses ? How can it be full when over 90% of it is countryside? . That's agricultural land used for growing food!!. It's not just there for you to think oooo that looks pretty... Let's build a housing estate" It's also these fucking cows and sheep coming over and taking up so much space. They are such a drain on resources and what do they give us? | |||
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"As far as I can tell most people want to remain inside the EU as on balance, the country is better off. A lot of those would like it tinkering with to some degree or another, but only a minority want to leave.
I don't think anyone wants to leave. Even Farage is only flagging it up in the (forlorn) hope of curbing immigration."I want to leave the EU. It is dragging the UK down and adding additional burden to small companies. The EU only benefits large and multi-national companies. | |||
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"They aren't going to see power again within twenty years, one would imagine that you would be trying to savour every moment!
Says you!
The polls suggest it's pretty much neck and neck with the Conservatives slightly ahead on the number of MP's
"Exactly. It will be a Labour led coalition. And that's where we will stay until the Tories manage to scrape up some decent MPs. So having said that, maybe twenty years is a little optimistic...thirty years in the wilderness sound more likely? | |||
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"Is this country not full already that's why there is such a shortage of houses ? How can it be full when over 90% of it is countryside? . That's agricultural land used for growing food!!. It's not just there for you to think oooo that looks pretty... Let's build a housing estate It's also these fucking cows and sheep coming over and taking up so much space. They are such a drain on resources and what do they give us? " . It constantly amuses me how people could possibly think this country isn't already extremely populated! I'd like to remind people that somebody would need to spend on growth for all the extra infrastructure. The problem of population growth is it never pays for itself! | |||
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"Is this country not full already that's why there is such a shortage of houses ? How can it be full when over 90% of it is countryside? . That's agricultural land used for growing food!!. It's not just there for you to think oooo that looks pretty... Let's build a housing estate It's also these fucking cows and sheep coming over and taking up so much space. They are such a drain on resources and what do they give us? . It constantly amuses me how people could possibly think this country isn't already extremely populated! I'd like to remind people that somebody would need to spend on growth for all the extra infrastructure. The problem of population growth is it never pays for itself!" Unless you are a Green Party member. They are suggesting no Borders at all and unlimited humanitarian immigration. That will work. I can see why they are regarded as fruit cakes. Can't understand why they are so popular. | |||
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"It's influenced in the village I live, we have been swamped out with eastern Europeans. They are a horrible bunch, constantly d*unk in the streets and market place, driving under the influence without insurance. My village was a mining village with great values and tradition now it's on its arse with no heart. So sad to seeand who ripped the heart out of our mining comunities ?" Scargill? Pay-rolled by Moscow?  | |||
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"Is this country not full already that's why there is such a shortage of houses ? How can it be full when over 90% of it is countryside? . That's agricultural land used for growing food!!. It's not just there for you to think oooo that looks pretty... Let's build a housing estate It's also these fucking cows and sheep coming over and taking up so much space. They are such a drain on resources and what do they give us? . It constantly amuses me how people could possibly think this country isn't already extremely populated! I'd like to remind people that somebody would need to spend on growth for all the extra infrastructure. The problem of population growth is it never pays for itself! Unless you are a Green Party member. They are suggesting no Borders at all and unlimited humanitarian immigration. That will work. I can see why they are regarded as fruit cakes. Can't understand why they are so popular." . We both no under the greens the immigration we see today wouldn't exist!. No borders is a philosophy of the greens. Immigration doesn't bother me perse providing its costed and sustainable | |||
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"............ We both no under the greens the immigration we see today wouldn't exist!.........." Yes cos the economy would be fooked and everyone would be leaving as fast as possible. It would be mass EMIGRATION. | |||
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"It's influenced in the village I live, we have been swamped out with eastern Europeans. They are a horrible bunch, constantly d*unk in the streets and market place, driving under the influence without insurance. My village was a mining village with great values and tradition now it's on its arse with no heart. So sad to seeand who ripped the heart out of our mining comunities ? Scargill? Pay-rolled by Moscow? "East Germany actually but close enough | |||
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"............ We both no under the greens the immigration we see today wouldn't exist!.......... Yes cos the economy would be fooked and everyone would be leaving as fast as possible. It would be mass EMIGRATION." . If you say so. 
The economy is fooked, we haven't been in power just you and labour, yet you still have the audacity to say we,d fuck it up. Your at best paradoxical and worst blindly holding onto a out dated ideology | |||
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"They aren't going to see power again within twenty years, one would imagine that you would be trying to savour every moment!
Says you!
The polls suggest it's pretty much neck and neck with the Conservatives slightly ahead on the number of MP's
Exactly. It will be a Labour led coalition. And that's where we will stay until the Tories manage to scrape up some decent MPs. So having said that, maybe twenty years is a little optimistic...thirty years in the wilderness sound more likely?"Nope. Five years max. Usually when a Labour government takes over from the Tory's they take over a pretty good economy and healthy government finances so you always get the honeymoon period while they are maxing the credit card. Wilson and Blair both did it. However this time the Tory's have only had five years to repair Labours damage from last time and the job is only half done. If Labour get in this time there wont be enough cash for a wet weekend in Rhyl never mind a full blown honeymoon and the chickens will come home to roost much sooner than for previous Labour governments. | |||
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" Nope. Five years max. Usually when a Labour government takes over from the Tory's they take over a pretty good economy and healthy government finances " Yes with national debt at 1.4tr and an annual deficit of 90bn - very healthy finances. | |||
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my kind of bloke  | |||
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"If as the tory party back slappers like to say labour always ruins the economy and the tories always fix it. Could someone care to explain the 1989-1994 recession!!. If it true like your always saying that Tories are careful with money and labour the squanders. Could you explain how in 17 years of Tory government before 1998 they only had four net debt repayment years amounting to 17 billion! While leaving office with debt twice as high as when they entered... ".Anybody | |||
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"Unless the conservatives get an overall majority the possibility of an EU referendum is unlikely to happen. I am surprised just how little our EU membership and EU immigration has been debated in this election campaign. Does this mean that the country at large is in fact happy with an extra 200,000 - 300,000 people a year arriving? Presumably they must be as the referendum appears to be unwanted." i hate the everybody come here arguement... but it belittles the fact there are the best part of 2 million uk nationals taking advantage of the open borders to work in the EU...... i think the agruement for me would be if people in the uk actually bothered to learn other languages as much other countries seem to... maybe a lot more people could take advantages of the oppotunities, rather than going "little englander" | |||
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"Unless the conservatives get an overall majority the possibility of an EU referendum is unlikely to happen. I am surprised just how little our EU membership and EU immigration has been debated in this election campaign. Does this mean that the country at large is in fact happy with an extra 200,000 - 300,000 people a year arriving? Presumably they must be as the referendum appears to be unwanted. i hate the everybody come here arguement... but it belittles the fact there are the best part of 2 million uk nationals taking advantage of the open borders to work in the EU...... i think the agruement for me would be if people in the uk actually bothered to learn other languages as much other countries seem to... maybe a lot more people could take advantages of the oppotunities, rather than going "little englander"" Learn another language? Next you'll be expecting us to eat their food when we go on holiday/retire there. The only problem I have with a referendum happening outside of the election timetable is the cost. I have the same problem with reckless by-elections that could easily have waited until the general election. | |||
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"If as the tory party back slappers like to say labour always ruins the economy and the tories always fix it. Could someone care to explain the 1989-1994 recession!!. If it true like your always saying that Tories are careful with money and labour the squanders. Could you explain how in 17 years of Tory government before 1998 they only had four net debt repayment years amounting to 17 billion! While leaving office with debt twice as high as when they entered... .Anybody". Still waiting patiently | |||
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"If as the tory party back slappers like to say labour always ruins the economy and the tories always fix it. Could someone care to explain the 1989-1994 recession!!. If it true like your always saying that Tories are careful with money and labour the squanders. Could you explain how in 17 years of Tory government before 1998 they only had four net debt repayment years amounting to 17 billion! While leaving office with debt twice as high as when they entered... .Anybody.
Still waiting patiently "Be patient. Those with a Tory mindset aren't home from work yet.  | |||
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"If as the tory party back slappers like to say labour always ruins the economy and the tories always fix it. Could someone care to explain the 1989-1994 recession!!. If it true like your always saying that Tories are careful with money and labour the squanders. Could you explain how in 17 years of Tory government before 1998 they only had four net debt repayment years amounting to 17 billion! While leaving office with debt twice as high as when they entered... .Anybody.
Still waiting patiently "Sorry SB, elsewhere
Wasn't that from trying to join the ERM, at the end of the Lawson boom, when the pound was at too high a rate against the Deutschmark, then the break up of the Soviet Union hit external trade with Europe, leading to a slowdown in these economies leading to currency speculators shorting the pound forcing the Chancellor to raise interest rates at a time when monetary policy should have been loosening?
If I remember right we were one of the last countries to enter the recession, the electorate in 92 didn't blame John Major, and by 97 the economy was heading for surplus again.
The Tories find it hard to run a surplus since it takes time to implement policy - the Coalition won't be able to reduce this deficit until 2018, and only then will start turning a surplus.
TB only produced surpluses when following he followed Clarke's budget. The big mistake was GBs 'I've ended boom and bust' speech, so he increased borrowing when we should have been running a surplus from 2005-08
But then you knew all that
Remember that though, 12 months into a new mortgage, interest rates 16%...
Still, not long now | |||
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"It's influenced in the village I live, we have been swamped out with eastern Europeans. They are a horrible bunch, constantly d*unk in the streets and market place, driving under the influence without insurance. My village was a mining village with great values and tradition now it's on its arse with no heart. So sad to seeand who ripped the heart out of our mining comunities ?" The NUM | |||
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"Is this country not full already that's why there is such a shortage of houses ? " There is a housing shortage because not enough houses have been built or renovated over the last 20 to 30 years. There is plenty of Brown Field sites that could and should be used to build new affordable homes for every one | |||
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"It's influenced in the village I live, we have been swamped out with eastern Europeans. They are a horrible bunch, constantly d*unk in the streets and market place, driving under the influence without insurance. My village was a mining village with great values and tradition now it's on its arse with no heart. So sad to seeand who ripped the heart out of our mining comunities ? Arthur Scargill." I knew we would agree on something eventually. | |||
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"As far as I can tell most people want to remain inside the EU as on balance, the country is better off. A lot of those would like it tinkering with to some degree or another, but only a minority want to leave.
It's a while since the last in/out opinion poll but I'm sure the result was around a 50/50 split.
I was always pro EU. Yes I moaned occasionally about some of the rules imposed, got pissed off with the way we sold our fishermen down the river and the waste of the CAP. I even laughed along at the more crazy ideas such as straight bananas. But overall I thought the positives outweighed the negatives.
That is not the case today. The waste and fraud has reached biblical proportions, the expansion to 27 (now 28) country's along with the ill thought out Euro project have been nothing short of disastrous. Into that mix you can add that the EU is now a shrinking market and while it is easy to bang on about British exports to the EU it has to be remembered that Britain imports a damn site more from the EU than it exports.
Personally I would prefer that the EU was reformed, but real root and branch reform not just tinkering around the edges, but I don't see it ever happening. So if Britain has to leave then so be it. Of course it would cause some disruption in the short term but the long term benefits would more than make up for it."What 'Long Term' benefits are you thinking about? I personally can't think of any! | |||
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"It's influenced in the village I live, we have been swamped out with eastern Europeans. They are a horrible bunch, constantly d*unk in the streets and market place, driving under the influence without insurance. My village was a mining village with great values and tradition now it's on its arse with no heart. So sad to see" How much is that different from many Brits on holidays in Spain? From your description same story, different place. As long as people work hard and earn their money, it's their business how they spend their free time. From what I read in newspapers, there are beautiful cities in Eastern Europe in which pubs and clubs no longer accept stag parties, because the Brits were getting horribly d*unk and late messing around on the street, puking and peeing everywhere, running naked and trying to hum the local beautiful ladies without their consent. Are these the values that your village lost, are you talking about other ones. | |||
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"They aren't going to see power again within twenty years, one would imagine that you would be trying to savour every moment!
Says you!
The polls suggest it's pretty much neck and neck with the Conservatives slightly ahead on the number of MP's
Exactly. It will be a Labour led coalition. And that's where we will stay until the Tories manage to scrape up some decent MPs. So having said that, maybe twenty years is a little optimistic...thirty years in the wilderness sound more likely?
Nope. Five years max.
Usually when a Labour government takes over from the Tory's they take over a pretty good economy and healthy government finances so you always get the honeymoon period while they are maxing the credit card. Wilson and Blair both did it.
However this time the Tory's have only had five years to repair Labours damage from last time and the job is only half done. If Labour get in this time there wont be enough cash for a wet weekend in Rhyl never mind a full blown honeymoon and the chickens will come home to roost much sooner than for previous Labour governments."If it wasn't for the fact that things would be so much worse and the economy so totally screwed if Labour did get in for 5 years I'd almost hope they would just so people could see how much of a mess they'd make of it. | |||
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"Go to Spain or Greece and ask local people if Brits abroad have any negative effects on their quality of life. " If you are talking about the financial aspects, I read a research that the immigration in UK has a good effect on the economy, as the masses of foreign workforce filled in positions that the locals did not want to get their hands dirty with. Also the ratio between the taxes paid and benefits drawn is in favour to the country economy. If you are talking about people drinking and misbehaving, I think it might be equally annoying in Greece, Spain (with Brits) and in UK (with the foreigners and locals behaving in the same way). | |||
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" If you are talking about people drinking and misbehaving, I think it might be equally annoying in Greece, Spain (with Brits) and in UK (with the foreigners and locals behaving in the same way). " I was referring to the anti-social behaviour seeing as it had been brought up. | |||
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"If as the tory party back slappers like to say labour always ruins the economy and the tories always fix it. Could someone care to explain the 1989-1994 recession!!. If it true like your always saying that Tories are careful with money and labour the squanders. Could you explain how in 17 years of Tory government before 1998 they only had four net debt repayment years amounting to 17 billion! While leaving office with debt twice as high as when they entered... .Anybody.
Still waiting patiently "It could be a long wait but here's a starter. It's not always the fault of any government that happens to be in power when tough times hit. There are other external factures that affect the economy. However how a government reacts to a crises is its responsibility. So Normal Lamont was no more totally responsible for the 1992 financial crises than Gordon Brown was for the 2008 one. After the crises of 1992 the government of the day took action and, while having dented the Tory credibility on financial management, managed to get the country out of the crises and most people probably don't even remember it much now. Gordon Brown actions after 2008 are not perceived to have actually helped solve the problem, in fact many would say his constant attempts to just through ever increasing amounts of money at the problem actually made it worse and also added the perception that Labour always try to solve problems by just throwing more of OUR money at them. It's perception. For the economy it generally works in favour of the Tories. For the NHS it generally works in favour of Labour (Although Labour is the ONLY party to have ever actually decreased spending in ACTUAL pounds on the NHS!!) | |||
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"the other secret that a lot of people fail to acknowledge is that these "foreigners" do a lot of the jobs that the local population wont do or is beneath them... which is interesting because where UKIP want to put a 5 year stop on "unskilled workers" coming into the uk..... they make an exception for "people picking on farms"....... " Why have they started picking and choosing? Someone from the construction industry was on the tele yesterday saying we only have 1/6th of the numbers of construction apprentices needed. | |||
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"If as the tory party back slappers like to say labour always ruins the economy and the tories always fix it. Could someone care to explain the 1989-1994 recession!!. If it true like your always saying that Tories are careful with money and labour the squanders. Could you explain how in 17 years of Tory government before 1998 they only had four net debt repayment years amounting to 17 billion! While leaving office with debt twice as high as when they entered... .Anybody.
Still waiting patiently
Sorry SB, elsewhere
Wasn't that from trying to join the ERM, at the end of the Lawson boom, when the pound was at too high a rate against the Deutschmark, then the break up of the Soviet Union hit external trade with Europe, leading to a slowdown in these economies leading to currency speculators shorting the pound forcing the Chancellor to raise interest rates at a time when monetary policy should have been loosening?
If I remember right we were one of the last countries to enter the recession, the electorate in 92 didn't blame John Major, and by 97 the economy was heading for surplus again.
The Tories find it hard to run a surplus since it takes time to implement policy - the Coalition won't be able to reduce this deficit until 2018, and only then will start turning a surplus.
TB only produced surpluses when following he followed Clarke's budget. The big mistake was GBs 'I've ended boom and bust' speech, so he increased borrowing when we should have been running a surplus from 2005-08
But then you knew all that
Remember that though, 12 months into a new mortgage, interest rates 16%...
Still, not long now ". Cheers me DDC I knew I could rely on you to at least have a go!. Remember I'm not a labour fan but I am a socialist (maybe that's why I'm not a labour fan) .
17 years of Tory rule and only 4 net debt repayment years (they actually paid back less than labour did in there 11 years).
The point I was trying to make is politicians and partys are no more responsible for the busts as they are for the booms?.
To give Thatcher her due what she realised in 1980 is that the world changed...
We were the first industrial nation in the world and we were the first to de-industrialise!.
Every single country followed us and every single country faces the same problem we do.
The problem is we can't make a living doing what we do (service sector) and we can't make a living in manufacturing.
The road will be long and winding and to be honest I'm not sure where we will end up. | |||
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"They aren't going to see power again within twenty years, one would imagine that you would be trying to savour every moment!
Says you!
The polls suggest it's pretty much neck and neck with the Conservatives slightly ahead on the number of MP's
Exactly. It will be a Labour led coalition. And that's where we will stay until the Tories manage to scrape up some decent MPs. So having said that, maybe twenty years is a little optimistic...thirty years in the wilderness sound more likely?
Nope. Five years max.
Usually when a Labour government takes over from the Tory's they take over a pretty good economy and healthy government finances so you always get the honeymoon period while they are maxing the credit card. Wilson and Blair both did it.
However this time the Tory's have only had five years to repair Labours damage from last time and the job is only half done. If Labour get in this time there wont be enough cash for a wet weekend in Rhyl never mind a full blown honeymoon and the chickens will come home to roost much sooner than for previous Labour governments.
If it wasn't for the fact that things would be so much worse and the economy so totally screwed if Labour did get in for 5 years I'd almost hope they would just so people could see how much of a mess they'd make of it."We agree on something else. I've had that thought in the back of my mind for a while. Some people really deserve a Labour government. | |||
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"It's influenced in the village I live, we have been swamped out with eastern Europeans. They are a horrible bunch, constantly d*unk in the streets and market place, driving under the influence without insurance. My village was a mining village with great values and tradition now it's on its arse with no heart. So sad to see How much is that different from many Brits on holidays in Spain? From your description same story, different place. As long as people work hard and earn their money, it's their business how they spend their free time. From what I read in newspapers, there are beautiful cities in Eastern Europe in which pubs and clubs no longer accept stag parties, because the Brits were getting horribly d*unk and late messing around on the street, puking and peeing everywhere, running naked and trying to hum the local beautiful ladies without their consent. Are these the values that your village lost, are you talking about other ones." How is that different? !! Because people on holiday tend to go home!! | |||
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"If as the tory party back slappers like to say labour always ruins the economy and the tories always fix it. Could someone care to explain the 1989-1994 recession!!. If it true like your always saying that Tories are careful with money and labour the squanders. Could you explain how in 17 years of Tory government before 1998 they only had four net debt repayment years amounting to 17 billion! While leaving office with debt twice as high as when they entered... .Anybody.
Still waiting patiently "Lol... I suspect many of us had better things to do on a Friday night than argue politics with anonymous strangers on a sex site. We we certainly did .......  | |||
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"the other secret that a lot of people fail to acknowledge is that these "foreigners" do a lot of the jobs that the local population wont do or is beneath them... which is interesting because where UKIP want to put a 5 year stop on "unskilled workers" coming into the uk..... they make an exception for "people picking on farms"....... The farm work is the one area where growers find it hard to recruit. That is why UKIP will allow more foreign labour if it's needed. Otherwise there will be an even bigger underground economy than there already is. " | |||
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" How is that different? !! Because people on holiday tend to go home!! " So the problem is not with people misbehaving but just being foreigners and living close to you, is it? If you leave in a place where Brits go for holidays, it doesn't matter that the particular d*unk group goes home after a week. In their place other loud and d*unk group comes. So as a member of a community you would always witness d*unk Brits misbehaving on the streets. And do not worry, many of these people living in your area will go home. Not many stay in an environment where they are treated as a second category human beings. Those that stay for good, are usually those that well intergrate with the community and make the place their home, raise their kids there and go to the lical pub for the Sunday's roast. | |||
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"I'd be worried about a Tory EU referendum, as Farage said the other night in the televised debates, UKIP would need some input as part of a coalition or deal with the tories to keep the referendum honest, instead of a stitch up. " Now that's what I call irony. Just as I was beginning to believe that UKIP supporters have no sense of humour too. Thanks for making me laugh | |||
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"I'd be worried about a Tory EU referendum, as Farage said the other night in the televised debates, UKIP would need some input as part of a coalition or deal with the tories to keep the referendum honest, instead of a stitch up. Now that's what I call irony. Just as I was beginning to believe that UKIP supporters have no sense of humour too. Thanks for making me laugh "You're welcome.
Still true what i said though, we all know Cameron and the tories are secretly pro EU and want us to stay in. | |||
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"the other secret that a lot of people fail to acknowledge is that these "foreigners" do a lot of the jobs that the local population wont do or is beneath them... which is interesting because where UKIP want to put a 5 year stop on "unskilled workers" coming into the uk..... they make an exception for "people picking on farms"....... The farm work is the one area where growers find it hard to recruit. That is why UKIP will allow more foreign labour if it's needed. Otherwise there will be an even bigger underground economy than there already is. " Hard to recruit? How can that be? We keep hearing that we have 1m unemployed young people - how on earth can farmers be struggling to find workers? Logically both things can't be true. Farage wants British jobs for British people so why is there an exception being made for agricultural workers? What a hypocrite! | |||
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"the other secret that a lot of people fail to acknowledge is that these "foreigners" do a lot of the jobs that the local population wont do or is beneath them... which is interesting because where UKIP want to put a 5 year stop on "unskilled workers" coming into the uk..... they make an exception for "people picking on farms"....... The farm work is the one area where growers find it hard to recruit. That is why UKIP will allow more foreign labour if it's needed. Otherwise there will be an even bigger underground economy than there already is. Hard to recruit? How can that be? We keep hearing that we have 1m unemployed young people - how on earth can farmers be struggling to find workers? Logically both things can't be true. Farage wants British jobs for British people so why is there an exception being made for agricultural workers? What a hypocrite! " Gordon Brown also used the slogan British jobs for british people before the last general election. Funny when Farage says it people don't like it? Lol. | |||
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"vote UKIP = inviting Russia to U. K. are u sure about that?????? read history be wise " I think Russia would be happier if the Greens and the SNP had their way and we scrapped trident. Its anyones guess what Putin would do then? | |||
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"we have been in eu a few yrs, are we in to deep to leave, is that why certain parties wont vote on it" A whole generation of Brits have never had any chance to vote on our memebrship of the EU, i was born in 1977, the last vote was in 1974. A lot has changed in the EU since 1974, its not the same thing we joined back then. I think its disgraceful people like Miliband and Clegg, Labour and the Lib dems are dead set against giving this generation our say/vote on it in a referendum. | |||
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"we have been in eu a few yrs, are we in to deep to leave, is that why certain parties wont vote on it A whole generation of Brits have never had any chance to vote on our memebrship of the EU, i was born in 1977, the last vote was in 1974. A lot has changed in the EU since 1974, its not the same thing we joined back then. I think its disgraceful people like Miliband and Clegg, Labour and the Lib dems are dead set against giving this generation our say/vote on it in a referendum. " It is just not going to happen unless the conservatives get a majority. Any potential coalition partner aside from UKIP will rule it out under term of the coalition. Like it or not UKIP are likely to end up with o ly one seat, which is one less than they have now! A UKIP supported coalition may be good in principle but even if they get two or even three MP's it is not enough to make any meaningful difference. If nothing changes, Labour will form a minority coalition government and the SNP will support them on a case by case basis. | |||
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"we have been in eu a few yrs, are we in to deep to leave, is that why certain parties wont vote on it A whole generation of Brits have never had any chance to vote on our memebrship of the EU, i was born in 1977, the last vote was in 1974. A lot has changed in the EU since 1974, its not the same thing we joined back then. I think its disgraceful people like Miliband and Clegg, Labour and the Lib dems are dead set against giving this generation our say/vote on it in a referendum. It is just not going to happen unless the conservatives get a majority. Any potential coalition partner aside from UKIP will rule it out under term of the coalition. Like it or not UKIP are likely to end up with o ly one seat, which is one less than they have now! A UKIP supported coalition may be good in principle but even if they get two or even three MP's it is not enough to make any meaningful difference. If nothing changes, Labour will form a minority coalition government and the SNP will support them on a case by case basis. " The DUP in northern Ireland are also in favour of a EU referendum, watched it on newsnight the other night, they are predicted to get around 8 to 10 MP's at the general election, so you could possibly get a Conservative/UKIP/DUP agreement on a referendum. | |||
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"I'd be worried about a Tory EU referendum, as Farage said the other night in the televised debates, UKIP would need some input as part of a coalition or deal with the tories to keep the referendum honest, instead of a stitch up. Now that's what I call irony. Just as I was beginning to believe that UKIP supporters have no sense of humour too. Thanks for making me laugh
You're welcome.
Still true what i said though, we all know Cameron and the tories are secretly pro EU and want us to stay in. "With the exception of a few nutters you're absolutely right, mist Tories want us to stay in the EU. I just wish those that really wanted to leave the EU would leave the Conservative Party to. They've caused nothing but trouble since 1992. UKIP, you're welcome to have them. Good riddance to bad rubbish!!. As for a possible Coalition between the Conservatives and UKIP. If it ever happens they would never, ever get my vote again and a lot of other people who vote conservative would feel very much the same. | |||
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"the other secret that a lot of people fail to acknowledge is that these "foreigners" do a lot of the jobs that the local population wont do or is beneath them... which is interesting because where UKIP want to put a 5 year stop on "unskilled workers" coming into the uk..... they make an exception for "people picking on farms"....... The farm work is the one area where growers find it hard to recruit. That is why UKIP will allow more foreign labour if it's needed. Otherwise there will be an even bigger underground economy than there already is. Hard to recruit? How can that be? We keep hearing that we have 1m unemployed young people - how on earth can farmers be struggling to find workers? Logically both things can't be true. Farage wants British jobs for British people so why is there an exception being made for agricultural workers? What a hypocrite! Gordon Brown also used the slogan British jobs for british people before the last general election. Funny when Farage says it people don't like it? Lol. " I didn't like it much when Gordon Brown said it either. As far as I'm concerned the job should go to who ever can do it best regardless of there national status. I think the real problem here is too many companies are willing to pay rates below a real living wage. A wage that requires a person to have to claim benefits in order to live is not a real wage. I never agreed with subsidising uncompetitive companies when the subsidies were paid direct to the companies. Paying workers in-work benefits is just another way of supporting an uncompetitive company. We should not be doing it. | |||
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"we have been in eu a few yrs, are we in to deep to leave, is that why certain parties wont vote on it A whole generation of Brits have never had any chance to vote on our memebrship of the EU, i was born in 1977, the last vote was in 1974. A lot has changed in the EU since 1974, its not the same thing we joined back then. I think its disgraceful people like Miliband and Clegg, Labour and the Lib dems are dead set against giving this generation our say/vote on it in a referendum. It is just not going to happen unless the conservatives get a majority. Any potential coalition partner aside from UKIP will rule it out under term of the coalition. Like it or not UKIP are likely to end up with o ly one seat, which is one less than they have now! A UKIP supported coalition may be good in principle but even if they get two or even three MP's it is not enough to make any meaningful difference. If nothing changes, Labour will form a minority coalition government and the SNP will support them on a case by case basis. The DUP in northern Ireland are also in favour of a EU referendum, watched it on newsnight the other night, they are predicted to get around 8 to 10 MP's at the general election, so you could possibly get a Conservative/UKIP/DUP agreement on a referendum. " If the DUP think it's a good idea then it's got to be wrong. A Conservative/UKIP/DUP coalition-pact or whatever you might like to call would be the death of the Conservative party. Most Conservative support comes from people who see themselves as centre right, not right wing. Getting into bed with the DUP and UKIP would not fit in with that view. I can see why the DUP and UKIP might get along quite well, they seen to attract the same sort of people. | |||
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"I'd be worried about a Tory EU referendum, as Farage said the other night in the televised debates, UKIP would need some input as part of a coalition or deal with the tories to keep the referendum honest, instead of a stitch up. Now that's what I call irony. Just as I was beginning to believe that UKIP supporters have no sense of humour too. Thanks for making me laugh
You're welcome.
Still true what i said though, we all know Cameron and the tories are secretly pro EU and want us to stay in.
With the exception of a few nutters you're absolutely right, mist Tories want us to stay in the EU. I just wish those that really wanted to leave the EU would leave the Conservative Party to. They've caused nothing but trouble since 1992. UKIP, you're welcome to have them. Good riddance to bad rubbish!!.
As for a possible Coalition between the Conservatives and UKIP. If it ever happens they would never, ever get my vote again and a lot of other people who vote conservative would feel very much the same. "I imagine UKIP would be very happy to take all those extra MP's on from the tories, and the Conservatives have already lost a large chunk of their vote to UKIP because of the Europe issue. Ken Clarke liked to call UKIP nutters before the european elections last year, that tactic seemed to work well seeing as UKIP then went on to win. | |||
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"DUP have always tended to support the conservatives, albeit not in any formal alliance." That is exactly what was said on Newsnight. | |||
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"I see there's been a poll from the highly respected Yougov that finds there is a stigma attached to UKIP as 55% say they would be embarrassed to tell friends and family they were voting UKIP and only 10% say they would be proud. Yougov suggests that this reveals the challenge UKIP faces in normalising its image. Perhaps Ken Clarke's comments had a more of an effect than you expected?" I'm not aware of that, so i must be in the 10% then, and happy to tell anyone i vote UKIP. Most of my friends, family and work colleagues will be voting UKIP in the general election aswel. There was a guy sitting in the front row of the audience on Question time on thursday night, who said he was a UKIP member, you can't get much more public than that. In fact given Labours track record i'd be ashamed to say i vote Labour (not that i ever would now after Iraq, crashing the economy, Mid staffs hospital and open door uncontrolled immigration). | |||
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"Unless the conservatives get an overall majority the possibility of an EU referendum is unlikely to happen. I am surprised just how little our EU membership and EU immigration has been debated in this election campaign. Does this mean that the country at large is in fact happy with an extra 200,000 - 300,000 people a year arriving? Presumably they must be as the referendum appears to be unwanted." Why are you surprised? Of course it's not going to be debated..... for two reasons. If you try to talk about it, you are branded a racist. Even though immigration comes from all colours. And the other reason, of course, being that there is a quite significant number of votes available from the immigrant population - enough to sway an election. In fact, in just the same way that the tories gave people the right to buy under Thatcher because house owners are more likely to vote Tory, the labour party under Blair took the decision to increase immigration as immigrants are more likely to vote labour. | |||
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"I see there's been a poll from the highly respected Yougov that finds there is a stigma attached to UKIP as 55% say they would be embarrassed to tell friends and family they were voting UKIP and only 10% say they would be proud. Yougov suggests that this reveals the challenge UKIP faces in normalising its image. Perhaps Ken Clarke's comments had a more of an effect than you expected? I'm not aware of that, so i must be in the 10% then, and happy to tell anyone i vote UKIP. Most of my friends, family and work colleagues will be voting UKIP in the general election aswel. There was a guy sitting in the front row of the audience on Question time on thursday night, who said he was a UKIP member, you can't get much more public than that. In fact given Labours track record i'd be ashamed to say i vote Labour (not that i ever would now after Iraq, crashing the economy, Mid staffs hospital and open door uncontrolled immigration). " None of that's any surprise. Thankfully we can't point our fingers at any failures in office by ukip because they've never formed a government and never will. | |||
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"These jobs that foreigners do that are supposedly beneath British workers,are they new jobs that have just Appeared?,or are they jobs that had been done for the last 5-6 decades by Brits who have been undercut by Eastern Europeans working for Half the Union rate of pay?,a lot of jobs on construction sites these days Brits have been excluded from applying for!,the CV goes straight in the bin because they are only taking on Polish,Rumanian,Italian,Portugese workers because they are under cutting BRITONS wages!. " two things here... 1) under UKIP's plans... people in construction (i.e builders, brickies, plumbers, leccies) would all actually be classed as "skilled workers" so those people would still be let in.... 2) i think it is interesting that UKIP don't support a rise in the minimum wage because as farage says "it might entice more people to come here"...... which kinda says it all about UKIP! they are so scared about "big bad johnny foreigner" they it take priority about helping lift the UK's poorest.... | |||
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"These jobs that foreigners do that are supposedly beneath British workers,are they new jobs that have just Appeared?,or are they jobs that had been done for the last 5-6 decades by Brits who have been undercut by Eastern Europeans working for Half the Union rate of pay?,a lot of jobs on construction sites these days Brits have been excluded from applying for!,the CV goes straight in the bin because they are only taking on Polish,Rumanian,Italian,Portugese workers because they are under cutting BRITONS wages!. two things here... 1) under UKIP's plans... people in construction (i.e builders, brickies, plumbers, leccies) would all actually be classed as "skilled workers" so those people would still be let in.... 2) i think it is interesting that UKIP don't support a rise in the minimum wage because as farage says "it might entice more people to come here"...... which kinda says it all about UKIP! they are so scared about "big bad johnny foreigner" they it take priority about helping lift the UK's poorest...." If the minimum wage was set at a realistic living wage and properly enforced there would be no need for foreigner to come and do those jobs because we British would be doing them. UKIP is against the minimum wage and/or raising it for the same reason as many conservatives are. They misguidedly believe that it will make some companies uncompetitive. The reality is that those companies are already uncompetitive and only survive by us tax payers massively subsidising their workforce. Not really much different to British Leyland in the 70's; and we all know where that ended up. if a company can't pay a living wage then it just simply should not be in business undercutting by subsidy more profitable, combative and better run companies. If work is available at a reasonable living rate most British people will be willing to do it. | |||
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"These jobs that foreigners do that are supposedly beneath British workers,are they new jobs that have just Appeared?,or are they jobs that had been done for the last 5-6 decades by Brits who have been undercut by Eastern Europeans working for Half the Union rate of pay?,a lot of jobs on construction sites these days Brits have been excluded from applying for!,the CV goes straight in the bin because they are only taking on Polish,Rumanian,Italian,Portugese workers because they are under cutting BRITONS wages!. two things here... 1) under UKIP's plans... people in construction (i.e builders, brickies, plumbers, leccies) would all actually be classed as "skilled workers" so those people would still be let in.... 2) i think it is interesting that UKIP don't support a rise in the minimum wage because as farage says "it might entice more people to come here"...... which kinda says it all about UKIP! they are so scared about "big bad johnny foreigner" they it take priority about helping lift the UK's poorest...." You're right... and wrong. Skilled construction workers would still be regarded as skilled workers. UKIP are advocating a points system and quota for skills in the same way that Australia manages its immigration. So they would decide which skills the country needs, and in what numbers we need them. If they say we have enough bricklayers, guess what? They'll be taken off the list and WON'T be ' let in'... And UKIP don't support a rise in the minimum wage with our existing immigration policy. | |||
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