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"Just watching. A disturbing issue" Why is it disturbing? | |||
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"Just watching. A disturbing issue Why is it disturbing?" I agree with you Why is it disturbing | |||
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" Wasn't it only just this time last year that a man with a beard won the Eurovision Song Contest and everyone (most anyways) referred to him as a she. Probably too recent to be a trendsetting cause for the current program. " There have been a few programmes about it. I watched a touching video on YouTube about a little while ago also. I'm sure that brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie are also embracing their daughter's request to live as a boy....I may have got the wrong celebs though. | |||
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"my nephew is a transgender hes had facial feminization ... due some more next month has a fantastic figure and having the final op later this year took guts to do it IMO ... certainly much happier" 
It took real balls for my eldest to come to me and say how he felt, lucky for him I'm not a complete arsehole and I would rather have a happy son than a miserable daughter... I saw the scars of self harm his self loathing brought him, we really don't need anyone else hating too!
Just in the process of being referred to a specialist unit in London | |||
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"Just watching. A disturbing issue Why is it disturbing? I agree with you Why is it disturbing " They didn't say it was disturbing. They said it was a disturbing issue. Giving pre pubescent children the power to elect to take puberty blockers and hormones raises serious questions amongst them about parental responsibility and the ability to make life choices as a pre teen. To suggest the OP is being narrow minded is a knee jerk reaction and quite unfair. Mr 2-4 | |||
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"my nephew is a transgender hes had facial feminization ... due some more next month has a fantastic figure and having the final op later this year took guts to do it IMO ... certainly much happier
It took real balls for my eldest to come to me and say how he felt, lucky for him I'm not a complete arsehole and I would rather have a happy son than a miserable daughter... I saw the scars of self harm his self loathing brought him, we really don't need anyone else hating too!
Just in the process of being referred to a specialist unit in London "I wish you and him all the best x | |||
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"my nephew is a transgender hes had facial feminization ... due some more next month has a fantastic figure and having the final op later this year took guts to do it IMO ... certainly much happier
It took real balls for my eldest to come to me and say how he felt, lucky for him I'm not a complete arsehole and I would rather have a happy son than a miserable daughter... I saw the scars of self harm his self loathing brought him, we really don't need anyone else hating too!
Just in the process of being referred to a specialist unit in London
I wish you and him all the best x"Thankyou x | |||
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"Just watching. A disturbing issue Why is it disturbing? I agree with you Why is it disturbing They didn't say it was disturbing. They said it was a disturbing issue. Giving pre pubescent children the power to elect to take puberty blockers and hormones raises serious questions amongst them about parental responsibility and the ability to make life choices as a pre teen. To suggest the OP is being narrow minded is a knee jerk reaction and quite unfair. Mr 2-4" Thank you. Though I'm not the OP! Have nothing against TGs; just the age is a concern. Would be interested to hear from those who are TG: would you have been happier to have had the option to make such a decision at such a young age? Not being judgemental; just curious | |||
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"my nephew is a transgender hes had facial feminization ... due some more next month has a fantastic figure and having the final op later this year took guts to do it IMO ... certainly much happier
It took real balls for my eldest to come to me and say how he felt, lucky for him I'm not a complete arsehole and I would rather have a happy son than a miserable daughter... I saw the scars of self harm his self loathing brought him, we really don't need anyone else hating too!
Just in the process of being referred to a specialist unit in London "If only all parents were this understanding and society more accepting! | |||
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"I'll be watching this with my eldest tomorrow, he was born a girl but lives as a boy, nothing disturbing about it at all apart from people's narrow minds toward it" 100% true narrow minded ppl | |||
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"my nephew is a transgender hes had facial feminization ... due some more next month has a fantastic figure and having the final op later this year took guts to do it IMO ... certainly much happier
It took real balls for my eldest to come to me and say how he felt, lucky for him I'm not a complete arsehole and I would rather have a happy son than a miserable daughter... I saw the scars of self harm his self loathing brought him, we really don't need anyone else hating too!
Just in the process of being referred to a specialist unit in London "Life is too short to be that unhappy in your own skin. Good luck to you both. I imagine it is not an easy journey but having your full support will make it so much easier. X | |||
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"Just watching. A disturbing issue Why is it disturbing? I agree with you Why is it disturbing They didn't say it was disturbing. They said it was a disturbing issue. Giving pre pubescent children the power to elect to take puberty blockers and hormones raises serious questions amongst them about parental responsibility and the ability to make life choices as a pre teen. To suggest the OP is being narrow minded is a knee jerk reaction and quite unfair. Mr 2-4 Thank you. Though I'm not the OP! Have nothing against TGs; just the age is a concern. Would be interested to hear from those who are TG: would you have been happier to have had the option to make such a decision at such a young age? Not being judgemental; just curious" You don't think that the children are able to consult with their parents and doctors on the nature and possible complications of gender reassignment, to ensure that they are made best aware of the decision prior to deciding if it's the right one for them? | |||
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"Id have a transgender gf with or without m or f parts " yep, that fits within the description "anybody". | |||
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"Just watching. A disturbing issue Why is it disturbing? I agree with you Why is it disturbing " im fascinated - also the families are very accepting | |||
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"Just watching. A disturbing issue Why is it disturbing? I agree with you Why is it disturbing They didn't say it was disturbing. They said it was a disturbing issue. Giving pre pubescent children the power to elect to take puberty blockers and hormones raises serious questions amongst them about parental responsibility and the ability to make life choices as a pre teen. To suggest the OP is being narrow minded is a knee jerk reaction and quite unfair. Mr 2-4 Thank you. Though I'm not the OP! Have nothing against TGs; just the age is a concern. Would be interested to hear from those who are TG: would you have been happier to have had the option to make such a decision at such a young age? Not being judgemental; just curious You don't think that the children are able to consult with their parents and doctors on the nature and possible complications of gender reassignment, to ensure that they are made best aware of the decision prior to deciding if it's the right one for them?" A ten year old being given the deciding vote on a course of action that will determine the rest of their life ?? And you think that is ok? I'm guessing you don't have children. | |||
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"Just watching. A disturbing issue Why is it disturbing? I agree with you Why is it disturbing They didn't say it was disturbing. They said it was a disturbing issue. Giving pre pubescent children the power to elect to take puberty blockers and hormones raises serious questions amongst them about parental responsibility and the ability to make life choices as a pre teen. To suggest the OP is being narrow minded is a knee jerk reaction and quite unfair. Mr 2-4 Thank you. Though I'm not the OP! Have nothing against TGs; just the age is a concern. Would be interested to hear from those who are TG: would you have been happier to have had the option to make such a decision at such a young age? Not being judgemental; just curious You don't think that the children are able to consult with their parents and doctors on the nature and possible complications of gender reassignment, to ensure that they are made best aware of the decision prior to deciding if it's the right one for them?" I don't know if the youngest should be making such a huge decision at such a young age - do you? I saw a documentary a few years back about someone who changed sex about four times. I'm concerned about the potential for similar when someone so young is making such a decision. But I'm not TG so don't know what age someone would feel confident about making such a decision, hence my question | |||
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"my nephew is a transgender hes had facial feminization ... due some more next month has a fantastic figure and having the final op later this year took guts to do it IMO ... certainly much happier
It took real balls for my eldest to come to me and say how he felt, lucky for him I'm not a complete arsehole and I would rather have a happy son than a miserable daughter... I saw the scars of self harm his self loathing brought him, we really don't need anyone else hating too!
Just in the process of being referred to a specialist unit in London Life is too short to be that unhappy in your own skin. Good luck to you both. I imagine it is not an easy journey but having your full support will make it so much easier. X"Oh trust me it really isn't easy or straight forward. I can't speak for how this programme as I am tucked up in bed with the lickle one. What I do know from personal experience is it takes a lot of heart ache and tears and hours of sitting with psychiatrists and alike. My child is 15 but the issue really appeared as soon as puberty hit. Can you imagine being a boy trapped in a girls body, seeing yourself develop and hating yourself, it's heartbreaking. He knows who he is and I am incredibly proud of him. There are adults who still don't know who they are and what they want. I don't encourage or discourage I just embrace my child for who he is and sometimes he leaves me in awe xx | |||
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"Just watching. A disturbing issue Why is it disturbing? I agree with you Why is it disturbing They didn't say it was disturbing. They said it was a disturbing issue. Giving pre pubescent children the power to elect to take puberty blockers and hormones raises serious questions amongst them about parental responsibility and the ability to make life choices as a pre teen. To suggest the OP is being narrow minded is a knee jerk reaction and quite unfair. Mr 2-4 Thank you. Though I'm not the OP! Have nothing against TGs; just the age is a concern. Would be interested to hear from those who are TG: would you have been happier to have had the option to make such a decision at such a young age? Not being judgemental; just curious You don't think that the children are able to consult with their parents and doctors on the nature and possible complications of gender reassignment, to ensure that they are made best aware of the decision prior to deciding if it's the right one for them? A ten year old being given the deciding vote on a course of action that will determine the rest of their life ?? And you think that is ok?" I believe that listening to my child, being the kind of dad they are able to come to and talk about these incredibly complicated issues of gender, personality and perception in the world, both by others and yourself, offering reassurance where I can, and if necessary taking the matter further to a dedicated specialist who can better advise both me and my child on the best course of action, is not only 'ok', but demonstrating the qualities that any good parent should have. "I'm guessing you don't have children." No, but I have nephews and nieces, and have had close contact with them for a long time - not quite the same as parenting, but I at least have some degree of experience in seeing the issues both parent and child go through, and am perfectly equipped to formulate some form of tested opinion on the matter. | |||
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"my nephew is a transgender hes had facial feminization ... due some more next month has a fantastic figure and having the final op later this year took guts to do it IMO ... certainly much happier
It took real balls for my eldest to come to me and say how he felt, lucky for him I'm not a complete arsehole and I would rather have a happy son than a miserable daughter... I saw the scars of self harm his self loathing brought him, we really don't need anyone else hating too!
Just in the process of being referred to a specialist unit in London Life is too short to be that unhappy in your own skin. Good luck to you both. I imagine it is not an easy journey but having your full support will make it so much easier. X
Oh trust me it really isn't easy or straight forward. I can't speak for how this programme as I am tucked up in bed with the lickle one. What I do know from personal experience is it takes a lot of heart ache and tears and hours of sitting with psychiatrists and alike.
My child is 15 but the issue really appeared as soon as puberty hit.
Can you imagine being a boy trapped in a girls body, seeing yourself develop and hating yourself, it's heartbreaking.
He knows who he is and I am incredibly proud of him. There are adults who still don't know who they are and what they want.
I don't encourage or discourage I just embrace my child for who he is and sometimes he leaves me in awe xx"You must have a very close bond. He sounds like a very brave lad. I sincerely wish you both all the best. X | |||
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"Just watching. A disturbing issue Why is it disturbing? I agree with you Why is it disturbing They didn't say it was disturbing. They said it was a disturbing issue. Giving pre pubescent children the power to elect to take puberty blockers and hormones raises serious questions amongst them about parental responsibility and the ability to make life choices as a pre teen. To suggest the OP is being narrow minded is a knee jerk reaction and quite unfair. Mr 2-4 Thank you. Though I'm not the OP! Have nothing against TGs; just the age is a concern. Would be interested to hear from those who are TG: would you have been happier to have had the option to make such a decision at such a young age? Not being judgemental; just curious You don't think that the children are able to consult with their parents and doctors on the nature and possible complications of gender reassignment, to ensure that they are made best aware of the decision prior to deciding if it's the right one for them? A ten year old being given the deciding vote on a course of action that will determine the rest of their life ?? And you think that is ok? I believe that listening to my child, being the kind of dad they are able to come to and talk about these incredibly complicated issues of gender, personality and perception in the world, both by others and yourself, offering reassurance where I can, and if necessary taking the matter further to a dedicated specialist who can better advise both me and my child on the best course of action, is not only 'ok', but demonstrating the qualities that any good parent should have. I'm guessing you don't have children. No, but I have nephews and nieces, and have had close contact with them for a long time - not quite the same as parenting, but I at least have some degree of experience in seeing the issues both parent and child go through, and am perfectly equipped to formulate some form of tested opinion on the matter." No need for a straw man argument. Thanks for confirming that you don't have children. | |||
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"Just watching. A disturbing issue Why is it disturbing? I agree with you Why is it disturbing They didn't say it was disturbing. They said it was a disturbing issue. Giving pre pubescent children the power to elect to take puberty blockers and hormones raises serious questions amongst them about parental responsibility and the ability to make life choices as a pre teen. To suggest the OP is being narrow minded is a knee jerk reaction and quite unfair. Mr 2-4 Thank you. Though I'm not the OP! Have nothing against TGs; just the age is a concern. Would be interested to hear from those who are TG: would you have been happier to have had the option to make such a decision at such a young age? Not being judgemental; just curious You don't think that the children are able to consult with their parents and doctors on the nature and possible complications of gender reassignment, to ensure that they are made best aware of the decision prior to deciding if it's the right one for them? A ten year old being given the deciding vote on a course of action that will determine the rest of their life ?? And you think that is ok? I believe that listening to my child, being the kind of dad they are able to come to and talk about these incredibly complicated issues of gender, personality and perception in the world, both by others and yourself, offering reassurance where I can, and if necessary taking the matter further to a dedicated specialist who can better advise both me and my child on the best course of action, is not only 'ok', but demonstrating the qualities that any good parent should have. I'm guessing you don't have children. No, but I have nephews and nieces, and have had close contact with them for a long time - not quite the same as parenting, but I at least have some degree of experience in seeing the issues both parent and child go through, and am perfectly equipped to formulate some form of tested opinion on the matter. No need for a straw man argument." I was simply addressing your assertion with a relevant counterpoint, but please, feel free to evade behind a non-applicable cliché if you don't feel capable of a meaningful response. "Thanks for confirming that you don't have children." And likewise, thankyou for giving me the chance to demonstrate my potential as a good father. | |||
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"Just watching. A disturbing issue" What is 'disturbing' about this? | |||
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"Just watching. A disturbing issue What is 'disturbing' about this?" How old is the child he's talking to now? I'm concerned about a child that young making such a decision - as has been discussed above | |||
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"Just watching. A disturbing issue Why is it disturbing? I agree with you Why is it disturbing They didn't say it was disturbing. They said it was a disturbing issue. Giving pre pubescent children the power to elect to take puberty blockers and hormones raises serious questions amongst them about parental responsibility and the ability to make life choices as a pre teen. To suggest the OP is being narrow minded is a knee jerk reaction and quite unfair. Mr 2-4 Thank you. Though I'm not the OP! Have nothing against TGs; just the age is a concern. Would be interested to hear from those who are TG: would you have been happier to have had the option to make such a decision at such a young age? Not being judgemental; just curious You don't think that the children are able to consult with their parents and doctors on the nature and possible complications of gender reassignment, to ensure that they are made best aware of the decision prior to deciding if it's the right one for them? A ten year old being given the deciding vote on a course of action that will determine the rest of their life ?? And you think that is ok? I believe that listening to my child, being the kind of dad they are able to come to and talk about these incredibly complicated issues of gender, personality and perception in the world, both by others and yourself, offering reassurance where I can, and if necessary taking the matter further to a dedicated specialist who can better advise both me and my child on the best course of action, is not only 'ok', but demonstrating the qualities that any good parent should have. I'm guessing you don't have children. No, but I have nephews and nieces, and have had close contact with them for a long time - not quite the same as parenting, but I at least have some degree of experience in seeing the issues both parent and child go through, and am perfectly equipped to formulate some form of tested opinion on the matter. No need for a straw man argument. I was simply addressing your assertion with a relevant counterpoint, but please, feel free to evade behind a non-applicable cliché if you don't feel capable of a meaningful response. Thanks for confirming that you don't have children. And likewise, thankyou for giving me the chance to demonstrate my potential as a good father." You digressed into commenting upon being a listening parent when no one suggested they would do otherwise - hence you reverted to a straw man argument. If you believe that bring a good father consists of allowing major surgery and the introduction of prodigious amounts of hormones to a pre teen you still have quite a journey to make before you consider having children. | |||
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" Nature v Nurture Fight!!!!!!!!!!!!!" What a fucking stupid comment to make | |||
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"A single hour didn't really do that justice. Would much rather have had last week's issue running a single week and this two. Not always the case, I'm sure, but some of those parents sounded more confused than their profile offspring! " So it was a load of crap then? Might give it a miss after all  | |||
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"Just watching. A disturbing issue What is 'disturbing' about this? How old is the child he's talking to now? I'm concerned about a child that young making such a decision - as has been discussed above" My niece has always been boyish (not just a tomboy). We let him do as he pleased to express the gender identity which he felt was appropriate. He now has a girlfriend (and no, not in the Lesbian sense) and they are happy The decision can only be made by the individual. Who else could possibly know what they are feeling The rest of us here should be supportive and guide them as we would any other child born with a condition which will restrict their development if left alone. Intervention (negative or positive) by those who feel they know better will cause harm | |||
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"Id have a transgender gf with or without m or f parts yep, that fits within the description "anybody"."  | |||
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" Nature v Nurture Fight!!!!!!!!!!!!!" Have you ever seen the documentary that I think is called nature v nurture its heartbreaking | |||
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"A single hour didn't really do that justice. Would much rather have had last week's issue running a single week and this two. Not always the case, I'm sure, but some of those parents sounded more confused than their profile offspring! So it was a load of crap then? Might give it a miss after all "Was a bit sensationalist, I thought, but acted as a decent introduction into the issue I suppose. Would like to hear your views on it tomorrow as you may think differently x | |||
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"Just watching. A disturbing issue Why is it disturbing? I agree with you Why is it disturbing They didn't say it was disturbing. They said it was a disturbing issue. Giving pre pubescent children the power to elect to take puberty blockers and hormones raises serious questions amongst them about parental responsibility and the ability to make life choices as a pre teen. To suggest the OP is being narrow minded is a knee jerk reaction and quite unfair. Mr 2-4 Thank you. Though I'm not the OP! Have nothing against TGs; just the age is a concern. Would be interested to hear from those who are TG: would you have been happier to have had the option to make such a decision at such a young age? Not being judgemental; just curious You don't think that the children are able to consult with their parents and doctors on the nature and possible complications of gender reassignment, to ensure that they are made best aware of the decision prior to deciding if it's the right one for them? A ten year old being given the deciding vote on a course of action that will determine the rest of their life ?? And you think that is ok? I believe that listening to my child, being the kind of dad they are able to come to and talk about these incredibly complicated issues of gender, personality and perception in the world, both by others and yourself, offering reassurance where I can, and if necessary taking the matter further to a dedicated specialist who can better advise both me and my child on the best course of action, is not only 'ok', but demonstrating the qualities that any good parent should have. I'm guessing you don't have children. No, but I have nephews and nieces, and have had close contact with them for a long time - not quite the same as parenting, but I at least have some degree of experience in seeing the issues both parent and child go through, and am perfectly equipped to formulate some form of tested opinion on the matter. No need for a straw man argument. I was simply addressing your assertion with a relevant counterpoint, but please, feel free to evade behind a non-applicable cliché if you don't feel capable of a meaningful response. Thanks for confirming that you don't have children. And likewise, thankyou for giving me the chance to demonstrate my potential as a good father. You digressed into commenting upon being a listening parent when no one suggested they would do otherwise - hence you reverted to a straw man argument." Allow me to re-quote you "A ten year old being given the deciding vote on a course of action that will determine the rest of their life ?? And you think that is ok?" You strongly implied that allowing the child a say in being able to decide their own gender was somehow wrong, hence why my 'listening parent' response was quite relevant - so again I'll ask you, do you actually want to attempt some form of valid counter argument to that, or would you like to try and play your failed 'straw man' cop out again? " If you believe that bring a good father consists of allowing major surgery and the introduction of prodigious amounts of hormones to a pre teen you still have quite a journey to make before you consider having children." Ah now you see lol, THIS is what a 'straw man' argument is, as you conveniently left out my rather long worded statement about seeking out further advice from relevant specialists, as of course, that would have severely damaged the point you were trying to make. It seems to me that you simply don't agree with gender reassignment. | |||
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"It seems such an adult decision to make: I think there is so much pressure on children being robbed of their childhood already. I'd be interested to know at what age gender reassignment is allowed in Britain. The trouble with America is that you flash the cash and doctors will say and do anything! Is it wrong to want a child not to have to make such a decision?" I completely agree that kids aren't allowed to be kids anymore, luckily for me mine have never felt the need to fit the mould (sp) and I encourage them to have fun and enjoy their childhoods, god only knows you're a long time grown up! I'm not sure at what age in the UK gender realignment is allowed as such but I know that once you have discussed things at length....long exhaustive lengths with psychiatrists that they suggest you live in the way you wish to. My eldest has been referred to the specialist clinic with the possible sight of having hormone blockers if again it is agreed with the specialists that that is what he wants and actually genuinely needs rather than it being emotions caused by something else. Then...long term future gender realignment, but that isn't something that is even near where we are at the moment as it's a very long and vetted process and rightly so. | |||
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"It seems such an adult decision to make: I think there is so much pressure on children being robbed of their childhood already. I'd be interested to know at what age gender reassignment is allowed in Britain. The trouble with America is that you flash the cash and doctors will say and do anything! Is it wrong to want a child not to have to make such a decision?" Pretty sure that healthcare for under 18's is free. | |||
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"A single hour didn't really do that justice. Would much rather have had last week's issue running a single week and this two. Not always the case, I'm sure, but some of those parents sounded more confused than their profile offspring! So it was a load of crap then? Might give it a miss after all
Was a bit sensationalist, I thought, but acted as a decent introduction into the issue I suppose. Would like to hear your views on it tomorrow as you may think differently x"I shall watch and definitely let you know x | |||
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"On a positive note, their male side will make them good drivers while still being able to hoover and cook Being German, I can drive the socks off you on an autobahn 
Is that some sort of farm building that turns into a robot?"Loling lots | |||
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"To avoid the risk of boring people by requoting - yes you are correct. I believe allowing a pre teen child the pivotal vote in having major surgeries and injecting prodigious amounts of hormones is wrong." If you are indeed saying 'pivotal/most important' vote then yes I'd agree with you that is wrong, but understand that my desire as a parent would simply be to do what I can to ensure my child a healthy and happy future, and in order to do this, I would want to make sure that myself, my partner, my child and most certainly a well researched and qualified medical staff had thoroughly discussed the issue and any possible complications, hopefully the additional knowledge making the reaching of a final decision easier for all of us. But still, if you don't feel you'd be comfortable in considering such a possibility, then that's your right as a parent and I won't argue with it. "No I have no issues with gender reassignment and, when mature enough, would fully support any of my children should they wish to embark on such a journey." Then I have nothing more to say on this. | |||
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"I am a post-op male to female and wish i had the information when i was younger! " I just looked. Fucking hell. I wouldn't have guessed. .. | |||
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"I am a post-op male to female and wish i had the information when i was younger! I just looked. Fucking hell. I wouldn't have guessed. .." | |||
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"I am a post-op male to female and wish i had the information when i was younger! but in the 80`s it wasn`t available or to be honest accepted, so for me transitioning in my 30`s has come at a cost both mentally and financially as i have recently had the op and now trying to re-build my life from scratch and yes my choice or was it really? i knew i couldn`t live another day trapped. x" I don't see how anyone in your situation has much choice. Either way it's going to be difficult. I hope you do well with rebuilding your life and your confidence. I wish you the very best of luck. | |||
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"I am a post-op male to female and wish i had the information when i was younger! but in the 80`s it wasn`t available or to be honest accepted, so for me transitioning in my 30`s has come at a cost both mentally and financially as i have recently had the op and now trying to re-build my life from scratch and yes my choice or was it really? i knew i couldn`t live another day trapped. x" Good luck on your journey. | |||
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the pain trans people will go through mentally makes the actual op a walk in the park to be honest! i have top respect for the next generation having to go through this and hope one day i can offer help/advice maybe support. Xx | |||
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"I am a post-op male to female and wish i had the information when i was younger! but in the 80`s it wasn`t available or to be honest accepted, so for me transitioning in my 30`s has come at a cost both mentally and financially as i have recently had the op and now trying to re-build my life from scratch and yes my choice or was it really? i knew i couldn`t live another day trapped. x" And that's why I feel strongly in favour of exploring the subject matter early in a childs life if they ever show signs of being 'trapped' in the same way. Congratulations in your personal quest, I hope it's working out for you and giving you the personal clarity and reassurance that you feel you'd been denied for so long, I wouldn't want any child of mine to ever have to go through the same, I'd want them to feel confident and happy in themselves throughout their lives - after all, how can you possibly get to where you want to go, without knowing where or even who you are? | |||
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"Feel like I'm handling dynamite with this question, but here goes. The lady above said her daughter felt she was at heart a boy, so changed . + good luck with that. But generally the kind of language used is stuff like 'happy in their own skin' etc etc. So, that's was my prep, put the seatbelt on + buckle up peeps coz I feel it might get rocky ahead. Do those following this path , actually have deep rooted psych issues? Is the sexuality just a symptom of deeper probs? + actually, they will continue to be unhappy post op /journey call it what you want, coz sexuality is not the problem. It's just a vehicle for other issues? I've noticed a few ts's I've spoken to, each one had serious issues " Well you are kind of right! i have issues lol but there was only two ways to go! one was 6ft under the other to live it out and have issues  | |||
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"I'll be watching this with my eldest tomorrow, he was born a girl but lives as a boy, nothing disturbing about it at all apart from people's narrow minds toward it"
Exactly. It wasn't too bad of a show. It's good to see things getting a bit more progressive. | |||
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"And that's why I feel strongly in favour of exploring the subject matter early in a childs life if they ever show signs of being 'trapped' in the same way. Congratulations in your personal quest, I hope it's working out for you and giving you the personal clarity and reassurance that you feel you'd been denied for so long, I wouldn't want any child of mine to ever have to go through the same, I'd want them to feel confident and happy in themselves throughout their lives - after all, how can you possibly get to where you want to go, without knowing where or even who you are? Yes that`s spot on and iv`e seen some news that they are going to try to bring the "lgbt" topics into schools which is awsome. iv`e lost all my confidence along with job/car/money/ some family and all friends so yes start like i`m a teenager again hehe (not the sleeping in hedges) Xx"LGBT has and is discussed in the schools the young people I know attend. The young people I know are familiar with families of all sorts (two mothers, two fathers, donation etc.) so haven't found any of this difficult to discuss. They have found it strange that other young people in their classes find it "disturbing" and use the term gay as an insult. Education and familiarity should help in the long run. | |||
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"Feel like I'm handling dynamite with this question, but here goes. The lady above said her daughter felt she was at heart a boy, so changed . + good luck with that. But generally the kind of language used is stuff like 'happy in their own skin' etc etc. So, that's was my prep, put the seatbelt on + buckle up peeps coz I feel it might get rocky ahead. Do those following this path , actually have deep rooted psych issues? Is the sexuality just a symptom of deeper probs? + actually, they will continue to be unhappy post op /journey call it what you want, coz sexuality is not the problem. It's just a vehicle for other issues? I've noticed a few ts's I've spoken to, each one had serious issues Well you are kind of right! i have issues lol but there was only two ways to go! one was 6ft under the other to live it out and have issues "I'm glad you asked the questions and I'm glad you answered them. | |||
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"Angel if you click on reply and quote we can see what you are quoting better...welcome to the forum by the way "sorry new on forums hehe Xx | |||
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"Thank you. Though I'm not the OP! Have nothing against TGs; just the age is a concern. Would be interested to hear from those who are TG: would you have been happier to have had the option to make such a decision at such a young age? Not being judgemental; just curious" I used to pass as male as a child and as a teenager. My parents hated it. I would wear boys clothes and have masculine haircuts. Then I grew breasts and hips and became very 'feminine'. I can still pass if I spend time strapping my breasts down and using makeup to make me look male. I wish I'd had the option to simply stay non-feminine. It would have solved many problems in my life. The medical knowledge available now is incredible and buys children time in order to make their minds up. That's what the puberty blockers do - they buy time. | |||
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" Do those following this path , actually have deep rooted psych issues? Is the sexuality just a symptom of deeper probs? + actually, they will continue to be unhappy post op /journey call it what you want, coz sexuality is not the problem. It's just a vehicle for other issues? " I've had counselling related to my gender. I've also opted to study gender at university in order to understand myself better. I've come to the conclusion that society forces a paradigm of bigender (male/female) upon everyone and we have to fit inside that. There are other ways to look at gender - there are other paradigms - but they are not dominant so those of us who do not fit have to try our best to fit. Sexuality is not the same as gender. Sexuality is the kind of person you find attractive. Gender is what we call 'male or female'. So no, sexuality isn't the problem here - societies idea of gender is the problem. I don't have 'serious issues' relating to my inability to fit into the way that society sees gender. The only 'serious' issue I have is knowing if I should tick 'male' or 'female' on a form when actually I am 'other'. I dislike my body - of course that is true - but that goes for me when I change it so I know it's not a problem that will carry on. If I bind my breasts down for example, I am happier with my body. If I wear a prosthetic penis, I am happier. People who fit outside the bigender paradigm can have serious mental health issues too, because mental health is far from simple. One thing can trigger others. But a professional will be able to attempt to determine the nature of each problem. (For example I have PTSD - it's not related to my gender paradigm problems at all though, it's related to a car accident). | |||
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" Daft, or maybe sensible, question : Am i correct in thinking this is not an hereditary issue? " No. being transgender/genderqueer not hereditary. You can't 'catch' it either. It's simply a case of not being able to conform to societies strict definitions of gender. | |||
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" Do those following this path , actually have deep rooted psych issues? Is the sexuality just a symptom of deeper probs? + actually, they will continue to be unhappy post op /journey call it what you want, coz sexuality is not the problem. It's just a vehicle for other issues? I've had counselling related to my gender. I've also opted to study gender at university in order to understand myself better. I've come to the conclusion that society forces a paradigm of bigender (male/female) upon everyone and we have to fit inside that. There are other ways to look at gender - there are other paradigms - but they are not dominant so those of us who do not fit have to try our best to fit. Sexuality is not the same as gender. Sexuality is the kind of person you find attractive. Gender is what we call 'male or female'. So no, sexuality isn't the problem here - societies idea of gender is the problem. I don't have 'serious issues' relating to my inability to fit into the way that society sees gender. The only 'serious' issue I have is knowing if I should tick 'male' or 'female' on a form when actually I am 'other'. I dislike my body - of course that is true - but that goes for me when I change it so I know it's not a problem that will carry on. If I bind my breasts down for example, I am happier with my body. If I wear a prosthetic penis, I am happier. People who fit outside the bigender paradigm can have serious mental health issues too, because mental health is far from simple. One thing can trigger others. But a professional will be able to attempt to determine the nature of each problem. (For example I have PTSD - it's not related to my gender paradigm problems at all though, it's related to a car accident)." Where do you sit on the subject of sex and gender being different things. Sex being the bits you have, (making you genetically male, female or intersex) and gender being a spectrum and something that is not necessarily fixed for some people? | |||
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" Where do you sit on the subject of sex and gender being different things. Sex being the bits you have, (making you genetically male, female or intersex) and gender being a spectrum and something that is not necessarily fixed for some people?" You say 'sex' like you're confident it's just two options. Have you researched intersexuality? And the fact that XX and XY aren't the only two options? | |||
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" Where do you sit on the subject of sex and gender being different things. Sex being the bits you have, (making you genetically male, female or intersex) and gender being a spectrum and something that is not necessarily fixed for some people? You say 'sex' like you're confident it's just two options. Have you researched intersexuality? And the fact that XX and XY aren't the only two options?" Yes, which is why I mentioned intersex. I didn't state just two options. | |||
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"On a positive note, their male side will make them good drivers while still being able to hoover and cook Being German, I can drive the socks off you on an autobahn
Is that some sort of farm building that turns into a robot?
Loling lots
Ok, it was a good one. I didn't see that coming"That is pretty funny actually because a male family member stated that after the op i will no longer be able to drive properly or reverse a car into spaces  he got a slapped face | |||
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"On a positive note, their male side will make them good drivers while still being able to hoover and cook Being German, I can drive the socks off you on an autobahn
Is that some sort of farm building that turns into a robot?
Loling lots
Ok, it was a good one. I didn't see that coming
That is pretty funny actually because a male family member stated that after the op i will no longer be able to drive properly or reverse a car into spaces he got a slapped face "Too right such sexist views should of died out long ago | |||
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"my nephew is a transgender hes had facial feminization ... due some more next month has a fantastic figure and having the final op later this year took guts to do it IMO ... certainly much happier
It took real balls for my eldest to come to me and say how he felt, lucky for him I'm not a complete arsehole and I would rather have a happy son than a miserable daughter... I saw the scars of self harm his self loathing brought him, we really don't need anyone else hating too!
Just in the process of being referred to a specialist unit in London
I wish you and him all the best x
Thankyou x"So do I. It shows that we humans can be human at times and do the right thing. You are an excellent parent by the way! | |||
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"I'll be watching this with my eldest tomorrow, he was born a girl but lives as a boy, nothing disturbing about it at all apart from people's narrow minds toward it" | |||
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"Id have a transgender gf with or without m or f parts yep, that fits within the description "anybody"." Play nice children | |||
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"I used the word disturbing and this has caused a lot of judgemental nonsense, as usual on here. The idea of a child as young as five deciding to be transgender, because of the issue of major, life changing surgery is disturbing to me: not being TG. I find it disturbing when I see a young child with piercings or tattoos! I will not be made to feel like that is the wrong way to feel As I posted above - and which has been completely ignored - what about children who change their minds back? An expert in the field said three quarters do. If that is true then it is a good job caution is exercised on this matter. Early surgery might be right for some: is it right for all though?" I think you have made a very valid point. I misunderstood your comment about this being a "disturbing issue" There are many other aspects of a child's life which need to be catered for long before surgery becomes an option In my 'neice's' case, he is now almost 20 and the surgery on offer is a poor choice. And in any case, he does not feel the need for any such thing. He is already living his life the way he feels is right for him | |||
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"I used the word disturbing and this has caused a lot of judgemental nonsense, as usual on here. The idea of a child as young as five deciding to be transgender, because of the issue of major, life changing surgery is disturbing to me: not being TG. I find it disturbing when I see a young child with piercings or tattoos! I will not be made to feel like that is the wrong way to feel As I posted above - and which has been completely ignored - what about children who change their minds back? An expert in the field said three quarters do. If that is true then it is a good job caution is exercised on this matter. Early surgery might be right for some: is it right for all though? I think you have made a very valid point. I misunderstood your comment about this being a "disturbing issue" There are many other aspects of a child's life which need to be catered for long before surgery becomes an option In my 'neice's' case, he is now almost 20 and the surgery on offer is a poor choice. And in any case, he does not feel the need for any such thing. He is already living his life the way he feels is right for him" I hope it works out for him | |||
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"I used the word disturbing and this has caused a lot of judgemental nonsense, as usual on here. The idea of a child as young as five deciding to be transgender, because of the issue of major, life changing surgery is disturbing to me: not being TG. I find it disturbing when I see a young child with piercings or tattoos! I will not be made to feel like that is the wrong way to feel As I posted above - and which has been completely ignored - what about children who change their minds back? An expert in the field said three quarters do. If that is true then it is a good job caution is exercised on this matter. Early surgery might be right for some: is it right for all though?" This is the reason I would support hormone blockers for a short while. It buys them time to mature and make a decision. | |||
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"This BBC2 programme is now talking to older trans people. " Saw it. Same two points again: those as adults/young adults who have gone through the process wish it had been done earlier. Dutch studies show early interventions (for wont of a better word) are a good idea. The child psychiatrist confirmed, however, that three quarters 'revert back' (I think that was the term used). So how best to handle? Very tricky, in my view | |||
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"This BBC2 programme is now talking to older trans people. " It's a pity that I'm not home to watch. There's no one right solution for everyone apart from society becoming more trans friendly, which supports people wherever they're at with transitioning or questioning. It's sad there's some hassle on fab for those alleged to have had some interest in trans people. | |||
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"This BBC2 programme is now talking to older trans people. Saw it. Same two points again: those as adults/young adults who have gone through the process wish it had been done earlier. Dutch studies show early interventions (for wont of a better word) are a good idea. The child psychiatrist confirmed, however, that three quarters 'revert back' (I think that was the term used). So how best to handle? Very tricky, in my view" I think the best way this is handled is between the children and the professionals Whilst opinions on forums such as these are great to pass the time, I for one, would completely disregard statements here from people who have "worked with trans people", "worked with HIV patients" etc and instead make an appointment with a qualified, registered and practicing professional if I needed guidance on such important matters Having said that, there is no harm in discussing the subject as long as people do not try and give the false impression on this (or on any other thread on any other important subject) that they are somehow 'professionals-by-proxy' | |||
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"Just watching. A disturbing issue What is 'disturbing' about this?" There is a lot about the subject that is very disturbing. From simple facts that many transgender people experience a period of identity development at a time they are still developing there own feelings of gender orientation. Through the fact that the term transgender covers transgenderists, transsexuals & cross dressers amongst others. This means that what may be suitable for one is not suitable for another. There is also the question about the difference between transgender and transsexual and the host of similar terms used as descriptions. Do these children understand who they are? Childhood is a time of change and what may seem concrete one year may be fluid the following. Anyone who is concerned about the welfare of the child cannot help but be disturbed by the implications of making the wrong decision. This only skims the tip of the subject, disturbing is a mild description. | |||
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" Even Tom Robinson, the "singer" decided he was no longer gay, albeit some time into his adulthood. Makes the comments aimed at parents who allow circumcision (as abuse) pale into insignificance. Circumcision : Bad Ear piercing bad : Sex change : Go on then. " | |||
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"Anyone who is concerned about the welfare of the child cannot help but be disturbed by the implications of making the wrong decision.. " Anyone who is concerned for the welfare of a fellow human cannot help by be disturbed by the implications of forcing someone to live in a body they are not comfortable with for the rest of their life. | |||
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lots of people don't like it because of how it makes them feel personally so look for reasons and make excuses for there ignorance in order to try and get others to jump on there hate bandwagon...
if people wanna dye there hair glow in the dark orange and wear designer bin bags with a carrot on there head !!! provided they are sane they should be allowed to people should stop being asshats because they are closed off and cant handle that people are different to them.
i have a phrase that i live by " as long as people are not hurting or doing some thing against some ones free will, have at it "
live and let live | |||
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"lots of good points here, but i think it boils down to people feeling comfortable, and being able to do with there own body as they want to
lots of people don't like it because of how it makes them feel personally so look for reasons and make excuses for there ignorance in order to try and get others to jump on there hate bandwagon...
if people wanna dye there hair glow in the dark orange and wear designer bin bags with a carrot on there head !!! provided they are sane they should be allowed to people should stop being asshats because they are closed off and cant handle that people are different to them.
i have a phrase that i live by " as long as people are not hurting or doing some thing against some ones free will, have at it "
live and let live"You have missed the point: it is not people in general being discussed, it is young children, some as young as four or five years old Would you be happy with a four year old dying their hair purple or some such? Surely the best is simply to allow the kids to 'be'? Quashing their feelings if they are desperately unhappy is not good but electing down the route of major surgery seems too serious, at such a young age, to my mind As has been pointed out above - and in keeping with the policy of the NHS - counselling first, hormone blockers at an older age and then, at an older age still, surgery if the individual involved is still certain about their feelings seems a good way to handle things: it is encouraging to hear this morning how sensitively one child's school handled the matter. I'm concerned that America, being the way it is, might encourage children to enter into surgery too young | |||
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"Surely the best is simply to allow the kids to 'be'? Quashing their feelings if they are desperately unhappy is not good but electing down the route of major surgery seems too serious, at such a young age, to my mind " I don't know if you watched the program, but they weren't advocating operating on young children. The youngest person operated on was a 16 year old who had his breasts removed. | |||
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"Just watching. A disturbing issue Why is it disturbing? I agree with you Why is it disturbing They didn't say it was disturbing. They said it was a disturbing issue. Giving pre pubescent children the power to elect to take puberty blockers and hormones raises serious questions amongst them about parental responsibility and the ability to make life choices as a pre teen. To suggest the OP is being narrow minded is a knee jerk reaction and quite unfair. Mr 2-4 Thank you. Though I'm not the OP! Have nothing against TGs; just the age is a concern. Would be interested to hear from those who are TG: would you have been happier to have had the option to make such a decision at such a young age? Not being judgemental; just curious" I tried to kill myself at NINE. NINE.. A nine year old shouldn't know shit like that. Now, you think about it. Your trying to make people understand what is wrong with you, but you yourself are clueless. There is a feeling of something trying to "escape".. Literally, that is how it feels. Each day for me was a battle and hitting puberty was when things went downhill for me. 4 suicide attempts, one being very nearly successful if it wasn't for the amberlunce team acting fast, a mental and nervous breakdown from "hiding" who i was, Homelessness, from when i come out to my biological parents who id never met up till 16. and the list goes on. If you want to see your possible child go through hell, you stop them taking them blockers and fingers crossed, they wont take the steps to suicide like 80% of trans people do. We dont hold the highest suicide statistic out of anyone for no reason. Its a painful thing to go through and at times distressing as hell. If i could rewind time now and take blockers to stop my puberty, i would have done cos now i have to live with the phyisical damages, not so much others can see, but what i can see. | |||
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"Just watching. A disturbing issue Why is it disturbing? I agree with you Why is it disturbing They didn't say it was disturbing. They said it was a disturbing issue. Giving pre pubescent children the power to elect to take puberty blockers and hormones raises serious questions amongst them about parental responsibility and the ability to make life choices as a pre teen. To suggest the OP is being narrow minded is a knee jerk reaction and quite unfair. Mr 2-4 Thank you. Though I'm not the OP! Have nothing against TGs; just the age is a concern. Would be interested to hear from those who are TG: would you have been happier to have had the option to make such a decision at such a young age? Not being judgemental; just curious You don't think that the children are able to consult with their parents and doctors on the nature and possible complications of gender reassignment, to ensure that they are made best aware of the decision prior to deciding if it's the right one for them? A ten year old being given the deciding vote on a course of action that will determine the rest of their life ?? And you think that is ok? I believe that listening to my child, being the kind of dad they are able to come to and talk about these incredibly complicated issues of gender, personality and perception in the world, both by others and yourself, offering reassurance where I can, and if necessary taking the matter further to a dedicated specialist who can better advise both me and my child on the best course of action, is not only 'ok', but demonstrating the qualities that any good parent should have. I'm guessing you don't have children. No, but I have nephews and nieces, and have had close contact with them for a long time - not quite the same as parenting, but I at least have some degree of experience in seeing the issues both parent and child go through, and am perfectly equipped to formulate some form of tested opinion on the matter." And, that right there is the definition of a brilliant father to be | |||
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"Surely the overriding problem though is the fact that society deems sex and gender to be inseparable. If people could act male or female regardless of the bits in between their legs, then surely there would be no need for invasive surgery and potent hormonal treatments.. A child simply should not have to make that choice based on societal pressures!" Shouldn't that be a decision to be made and followed through by the individual concerned? | |||
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"Surely the overriding problem though is the fact that society deems sex and gender to be inseparable. If people could act male or female regardless of the bits in between their legs, then surely there would be no need for invasive surgery and potent hormonal treatments.. A child simply should not have to make that choice based on societal pressures!" i can almost assure you from the word "go" i always knew something was not right with me. it was not from "societal pressure". If you research the science, you may get a grasp understanding of how Transgender children are made. One stage being we all start with a female chromo in the womb. That is a big hint of how it is caused... the rest is easy to guess. You may also want to search into the new "Trans MRI scans" they now offer in Europe to find-out if a child is indeed structed neurotically and functioned in the brain as the oppose gender. You don't just "wake up" like this unfortunately. its there from day one. just takes alot to realize and these children now have stronger role models that have platforms to speak up for them. If only i knew what was up with me when i was a child maybe, as i said, i could have started my blockers much younger. | |||
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"Surely the best is simply to allow the kids to 'be'? Quashing their feelings if they are desperately unhappy is not good but electing down the route of major surgery seems too serious, at such a young age, to my mind I don't know if you watched the program, but they weren't advocating operating on young children. The youngest person operated on was a 16 year old who had his breasts removed." Amen. and the legal age for gender reassignment is 18. or 16 with a physicist and parents consent. some people are stuck so much in the past they dont understand it and think a 4 year old can have a sex change. They won't even get the blocker till 12 and in which, Blockers can be stopped if a child had doubts and "return" to living as there assigned sex. Letting a child grow up in the sex they are mentally is perfectly okay. they're doing no harm... I dont see why people make such a big fuss. its a shame some of these people saying they shouldn't are probably parents too who will watch there son or daughter fall into a cave of depression and suicide because they couldn't face letting there child live happily and freely... you hit the nail on the end though. kudos x | |||
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"Surely the best is simply to allow the kids to 'be'? Quashing their feelings if they are desperately unhappy is not good but electing down the route of major surgery seems too serious, at such a young age, to my mind I don't know if you watched the program, but they weren't advocating operating on young children. The youngest person operated on was a 16 year old who had his breasts removed. Amen. and the legal age for gender reassignment is 18. or 16 with a physicist and parents consent. some people are stuck so much in the past they dont understand it and think a 4 year old can have a sex change. They won't even get the blocker till 12 and in which, Blockers can be stopped if a child had doubts and "return" to living as there assigned sex. Letting a child grow up in the sex they are mentally is perfectly okay. they're doing no harm... I dont see why people make such a big fuss. its a shame some of these people saying they shouldn't are probably parents too who will watch there son or daughter fall into a cave of depression and suicide because they couldn't face letting there child live happily and freely... you hit the nail on the end though. kudos x" Who is making a big fuss? Who is saying they shouldn't? | |||
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"Surely the best is simply to allow the kids to 'be'? Quashing their feelings if they are desperately unhappy is not good but electing down the route of major surgery seems too serious, at such a young age, to my mind I don't know if you watched the program, but they weren't advocating operating on young children. The youngest person operated on was a 16 year old who had his breasts removed. Amen. and the legal age for gender reassignment is 18. or 16 with a physicist and parents consent. some people are stuck so much in the past they dont understand it and think a 4 year old can have a sex change. They won't even get the blocker till 12 and in which, Blockers can be stopped if a child had doubts and "return" to living as there assigned sex. Letting a child grow up in the sex they are mentally is perfectly okay. they're doing no harm... I dont see why people make such a big fuss. its a shame some of these people saying they shouldn't are probably parents too who will watch there son or daughter fall into a cave of depression and suicide because they couldn't face letting there child live happily and freely... you hit the nail on the end though. kudos x Who is making a big fuss? Who is saying they shouldn't? " theres 1 or 2 comments above of uncertain feelings towards it, but the majority agree which is refreshing to see on here. | |||
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"Surely the best is simply to allow the kids to 'be'? Quashing their feelings if they are desperately unhappy is not good but electing down the route of major surgery seems too serious, at such a young age, to my mind I don't know if you watched the program, but they weren't advocating operating on young children. The youngest person operated on was a 16 year old who had his breasts removed. Amen. and the legal age for gender reassignment is 18. or 16 with a physicist and parents consent. some people are stuck so much in the past they dont understand it and think a 4 year old can have a sex change. They won't even get the blocker till 12 and in which, Blockers can be stopped if a child had doubts and "return" to living as there assigned sex. Letting a child grow up in the sex they are mentally is perfectly okay. they're doing no harm... I dont see why people make such a big fuss. its a shame some of these people saying they shouldn't are probably parents too who will watch there son or daughter fall into a cave of depression and suicide because they couldn't face letting there child live happily and freely... you hit the nail on the end though. kudos x Who is making a big fuss? Who is saying they shouldn't? theres 1 or 2 comments above of uncertain feelings towards it, but the majority agree which is refreshing to see on here. " Agree about what though? At what age should surgery be allowed? What age hormones? I respect your opinion as obviously you know much, much more about the issue than me - but are you prepared to admit that your opinion is based to a degree by your own experiences? My concern is both for those who go through lots of tough stuff and come out certain that the transgender decision (probably the wrong word but you know what I mean) was the right thing for them and also those who feel TG at an early age but who change heart later on. Could intervention through hormones complicate matters for the latter group? Please note there is no judgement - just a curiosity and willingness to understand. It is this group that we aren't seeing being reported on - yet they make up three quarters of transgender children from what I've heard and read | |||
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"Surely the best is simply to allow the kids to 'be'? Quashing their feelings if they are desperately unhappy is not good but electing down the route of major surgery seems too serious, at such a young age, to my mind I don't know if you watched the program, but they weren't advocating operating on young children. The youngest person operated on was a 16 year old who had his breasts removed. Amen. and the legal age for gender reassignment is 18. or 16 with a physicist and parents consent. some people are stuck so much in the past they dont understand it and think a 4 year old can have a sex change. They won't even get the blocker till 12 and in which, Blockers can be stopped if a child had doubts and "return" to living as there assigned sex. Letting a child grow up in the sex they are mentally is perfectly okay. they're doing no harm... I dont see why people make such a big fuss. its a shame some of these people saying they shouldn't are probably parents too who will watch there son or daughter fall into a cave of depression and suicide because they couldn't face letting there child live happily and freely... you hit the nail on the end though. kudos x Who is making a big fuss? Who is saying they shouldn't? theres 1 or 2 comments above of uncertain feelings towards it, but the majority agree which is refreshing to see on here. Agree about what though? At what age should surgery be allowed? What age hormones? I respect your opinion as obviously you know much, much more about the issue than me - but are you prepared to admit that your opinion is based to a degree by your own experiences? My concern is both for those who go through lots of tough stuff and come out certain that the transgender decision (probably the wrong word but you know what I mean) was the right thing for them and also those who feel TG at an early age but who change heart later on. Could intervention through hormones complicate matters for the latter group? Please note there is no judgement - just a curiosity and willingness to understand. It is this group that we aren't seeing being reported on - yet they make up three quarters of transgender children from what I've heard and read" You're missing the point. A blocker is not a hormone. They will not be allowed hormones till 16. A blocker just simply gives them more time to think about it and make sure they are who they are. Under the tough supervision of a physicist, they will go through extensive therapy to make sure they are 100% trans. If at 16, he or she feels that the child is ready to have the hormone, then they shall be put on it for a prior two years. Then and only then, if they have passed that, they may get a written referral for GRS surgery if thats the route they wish to take. If not, they can carry on hormones. At any time, these can be stopped if they have any doubts and there body will then develop back as the assigned sex at birth that they were. its just a simple "buying time" option for them. im 25, and still not under gone post op surgery because i wasn't sure. only now am i getting closer to knowing its what i want and i feel by the time im 28-30 maybe i shall be post op. so, its not a overnight process and i can assure you, most children know who they are. theres that 10% who "reverse" the changes of estrogen. Noone in the right mind would take the post op route if they was not 100% certain and the physicist was not 100% either. x | |||
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"Surely the best is simply to allow the kids to 'be'? Quashing their feelings if they are desperately unhappy is not good but electing down the route of major surgery seems too serious, at such a young age, to my mind I don't know if you watched the program, but they weren't advocating operating on young children. The youngest person operated on was a 16 year old who had his breasts removed. Amen. and the legal age for gender reassignment is 18. or 16 with a physicist and parents consent. some people are stuck so much in the past they dont understand it and think a 4 year old can have a sex change. They won't even get the blocker till 12 and in which, Blockers can be stopped if a child had doubts and "return" to living as there assigned sex. Letting a child grow up in the sex they are mentally is perfectly okay. they're doing no harm... I dont see why people make such a big fuss. its a shame some of these people saying they shouldn't are probably parents too who will watch there son or daughter fall into a cave of depression and suicide because they couldn't face letting there child live happily and freely... you hit the nail on the end though. kudos x Who is making a big fuss? Who is saying they shouldn't? theres 1 or 2 comments above of uncertain feelings towards it, but the majority agree which is refreshing to see on here. Agree about what though? At what age should surgery be allowed? What age hormones? I respect your opinion as obviously you know much, much more about the issue than me - but are you prepared to admit that your opinion is based to a degree by your own experiences? My concern is both for those who go through lots of tough stuff and come out certain that the transgender decision (probably the wrong word but you know what I mean) was the right thing for them and also those who feel TG at an early age but who change heart later on. Could intervention through hormones complicate matters for the latter group? Please note there is no judgement - just a curiosity and willingness to understand. It is this group that we aren't seeing being reported on - yet they make up three quarters of transgender children from what I've heard and read You're missing the point. A blocker is not a hormone. They will not be allowed hormones till 16. A blocker just simply gives them more time to think about it and make sure they are who they are. Under the tough supervision of a physicist, they will go through extensive therapy to make sure they are 100% trans. If at 16, he or she feels that the child is ready to have the hormone, then they shall be put on it for a prior two years. Then and only then, if they have passed that, they may get a written referral for GRS surgery if thats the route they wish to take. If not, they can carry on hormones. At any time, these can be stopped if they have any doubts and there body will then develop back as the assigned sex at birth that they were. its just a simple "buying time" option for them. im 25, and still not under gone post op surgery because i wasn't sure. only now am i getting closer to knowing its what i want and i feel by the time im 28-30 maybe i shall be post op. so, its not a overnight process and i can assure you, most children know who they are. theres that 10% who "reverse" the changes of estrogen. Noone in the right mind would take the post op route if they was not 100% certain and the physicist was not 100% either. x" From what I heard the other day, the Dutch are advocating earlier and earlier intervention - would you support that? Is the NHS policy a good one, do you think? | |||
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"From what I heard the other day, the Dutch are advocating earlier and earlier intervention - would you support that? Is the NHS policy a good one, do you think? " I don't think you understand what they mean by 'early intervention'. They mean talky therapy and so forth. Blockers are given at the onset of puberty (between 10 and 15). Hormone therapy is given several years after that. Surgery to remove breasts is sometimes done at 16, and bottom surgery is done in someones twenties at least. The early intervention isn't more drugs or surgery - there's none you can give earlier than the onset of puberty. They're just talking about allowing the child to live in the gender that they wish. And why not? The older you are, the harder it is to transition. I'm contemplating when the best time for me to transition is. I will most likely now wait until after my PhD - another four to five years - because that's the 'easiest' time for me to transition socially. Allowing a child to change the gender that they are living at as a convenient time - such as when changing to secondary school, or by moving primary schools and changing at the same time - would be a real help. The problem is that you have to plan to lose a large part of your social circle, so if you can do that earlier in life, or when you're making another large change, then it's much easier to do. | |||
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"Surely the overriding problem though is the fact that society deems sex and gender to be inseparable. If people could act male or female regardless of the bits in between their legs, then surely there would be no need for invasive surgery and potent hormonal treatments.. A child simply should not have to make that choice based on societal pressures! i can almost assure you from the word "go" i always knew something was not right with me. it was not from "societal pressure". If you research the science, you may get a grasp understanding of how Transgender children are made. One stage being we all start with a female chromo in the womb. That is a big hint of how it is caused... the rest is easy to guess. You may also want to search into the new "Trans MRI scans" they now offer in Europe to find-out if a child is indeed structed neurotically and functioned in the brain as the oppose gender. You don't just "wake up" like this unfortunately. its there from day one. just takes alot to realize and these children now have stronger role models that have platforms to speak up for them. If only i knew what was up with me when i was a child maybe, as i said, i could have started my blockers much younger. " You've totally missed my point. The societal pressure of which I speak is that gender and sex cannot be mutually exclusive. I never suggested it was a choice you have made. However it is entirely society which makes you feel that you are in the 'wrong' body. | |||
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"Surely the overriding problem though is the fact that society deems sex and gender to be inseparable. If people could act male or female regardless of the bits in between their legs, then surely there would be no need for invasive surgery and potent hormonal treatments.. A child simply should not have to make that choice based on societal pressures! i can almost assure you from the word "go" i always knew something was not right with me. it was not from "societal pressure". If you research the science, you may get a grasp understanding of how Transgender children are made. One stage being we all start with a female chromo in the womb. That is a big hint of how it is caused... the rest is easy to guess. You may also want to search into the new "Trans MRI scans" they now offer in Europe to find-out if a child is indeed structed neurotically and functioned in the brain as the oppose gender. You don't just "wake up" like this unfortunately. its there from day one. just takes alot to realize and these children now have stronger role models that have platforms to speak up for them. If only i knew what was up with me when i was a child maybe, as i said, i could have started my blockers much younger. You've totally missed my point. The societal pressure of which I speak is that gender and sex cannot be mutually exclusive. I never suggested it was a choice you have made. However it is entirely society which makes you feel that you are in the 'wrong' body. " It's not "society" at all. its science | |||
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"Surely the overriding problem though is the fact that society deems sex and gender to be inseparable. If people could act male or female regardless of the bits in between their legs, then surely there would be no need for invasive surgery and potent hormonal treatments.. A child simply should not have to make that choice based on societal pressures! i can almost assure you from the word "go" i always knew something was not right with me. it was not from "societal pressure". If you research the science, you may get a grasp understanding of how Transgender children are made. One stage being we all start with a female chromo in the womb. That is a big hint of how it is caused... the rest is easy to guess. You may also want to search into the new "Trans MRI scans" they now offer in Europe to find-out if a child is indeed structed neurotically and functioned in the brain as the oppose gender. You don't just "wake up" like this unfortunately. its there from day one. just takes alot to realize and these children now have stronger role models that have platforms to speak up for them. If only i knew what was up with me when i was a child maybe, as i said, i could have started my blockers much younger. You've totally missed my point. The societal pressure of which I speak is that gender and sex cannot be mutually exclusive. I never suggested it was a choice you have made. However it is entirely society which makes you feel that you are in the 'wrong' body. It's not "society" at all. its science" Look i'm not having a go, i've a lot of respect for trans people. Takes a lot of balls (or not as the case may be  ) to face the stigma and bigotry.
You haven't grasped what I am saying, unless you are saying that anyone identifying as female has an innate instinct from birth to have breasts, and a vagina, and wear dresses and high heels. If that is the case then obviously i am wrong about the influence of society on the mental wellbeing of transpeople, and if so i apologise. | |||
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"Just watching. A disturbing issue Why is it disturbing? I agree with you Why is it disturbing They didn't say it was disturbing. They said it was a disturbing issue. Giving pre pubescent children the power to elect to take puberty blockers and hormones raises serious questions amongst them about parental responsibility and the ability to make life choices as a pre teen. To suggest the OP is being narrow minded is a knee jerk reaction and quite unfair. Mr 2-4 Thank you. Though I'm not the OP! Have nothing against TGs; just the age is a concern. Would be interested to hear from those who are TG: would you have been happier to have had the option to make such a decision at such a young age? Not being judgemental; just curious You don't think that the children are able to consult with their parents and doctors on the nature and possible complications of gender reassignment, to ensure that they are made best aware of the decision prior to deciding if it's the right one for them? A ten year old being given the deciding vote on a course of action that will determine the rest of their life ?? And you think that is ok? I believe that listening to my child, being the kind of dad they are able to come to and talk about these incredibly complicated issues of gender, personality and perception in the world, both by others and yourself, offering reassurance where I can, and if necessary taking the matter further to a dedicated specialist who can better advise both me and my child on the best course of action, is not only 'ok', but demonstrating the qualities that any good parent should have. I'm guessing you don't have children. No, but I have nephews and nieces, and have had close contact with them for a long time - not quite the same as parenting, but I at least have some degree of experience in seeing the issues both parent and child go through, and am perfectly equipped to formulate some form of tested opinion on the matter. And, that right there is the definition of a brilliant father to be "Thankyou kindly, it's as I said before, should I become a father one day, it doesn't matter to me if I have a son, daughter, or someone who is a unique mix of both, all that matters is that they're healthy and happy, and I'd love them all equally x | |||
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"Surely the overriding problem though is the fact that society deems sex and gender to be inseparable. If people could act male or female regardless of the bits in between their legs, then surely there would be no need for invasive surgery and potent hormonal treatments.. A child simply should not have to make that choice based on societal pressures! i can almost assure you from the word "go" i always knew something was not right with me. it was not from "societal pressure". If you research the science, you may get a grasp understanding of how Transgender children are made. One stage being we all start with a female chromo in the womb. That is a big hint of how it is caused... the rest is easy to guess. You may also want to search into the new "Trans MRI scans" they now offer in Europe to find-out if a child is indeed structed neurotically and functioned in the brain as the oppose gender. You don't just "wake up" like this unfortunately. its there from day one. just takes alot to realize and these children now have stronger role models that have platforms to speak up for them. If only i knew what was up with me when i was a child maybe, as i said, i could have started my blockers much younger. You've totally missed my point. The societal pressure of which I speak is that gender and sex cannot be mutually exclusive. I never suggested it was a choice you have made. However it is entirely society which makes you feel that you are in the 'wrong' body. It's not "society" at all. its science Look i'm not having a go, i've a lot of respect for trans people. Takes a lot of balls (or not as the case may be ) to face the stigma and bigotry.
You haven't grasped what I am saying, unless you are saying that anyone identifying as female has an innate instinct from birth to have breasts, and a vagina, and wear dresses and high heels. If that is the case then obviously i am wrong about the influence of society on the mental wellbeing of transpeople, and if so i apologise. "Ive always known since very young same as most trans kids. When I was 9 I tried to kill myself because i was confused to why my body wasnt the way it should be.... You say thats society? The science is out there. As for scoeitys opinions however, The way one should dress and look IS a problem. Eg: Unpassable trans women are seen as "men" because they hold masculine traits still, yet a feminine trans person is seen as "Wow you obvs were meant to be women all along" (Ive heard that a few times) Also, A Girl should like dresses, heels and pink. A Trans person can still like masculine things regardless of there gender identity. So I agree with you 100% on that part. As for the cause of it though, thats science not society. | |||
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"Surely the overriding problem though is the fact that society deems sex and gender to be inseparable. If people could act male or female regardless of the bits in between their legs, then surely there would be no need for invasive surgery and potent hormonal treatments.. A child simply should not have to make that choice based on societal pressures! i can almost assure you from the word "go" i always knew something was not right with me. it was not from "societal pressure". If you research the science, you may get a grasp understanding of how Transgender children are made. One stage being we all start with a female chromo in the womb. That is a big hint of how it is caused... the rest is easy to guess. You may also want to search into the new "Trans MRI scans" they now offer in Europe to find-out if a child is indeed structed neurotically and functioned in the brain as the oppose gender. You don't just "wake up" like this unfortunately. its there from day one. just takes alot to realize and these children now have stronger role models that have platforms to speak up for them. If only i knew what was up with me when i was a child maybe, as i said, i could have started my blockers much younger. You've totally missed my point. The societal pressure of which I speak is that gender and sex cannot be mutually exclusive. I never suggested it was a choice you have made. However it is entirely society which makes you feel that you are in the 'wrong' body. It's not "society" at all. its science Look i'm not having a go, i've a lot of respect for trans people. Takes a lot of balls (or not as the case may be ) to face the stigma and bigotry.
You haven't grasped what I am saying, unless you are saying that anyone identifying as female has an innate instinct from birth to have breasts, and a vagina, and wear dresses and high heels. If that is the case then obviously i am wrong about the influence of society on the mental wellbeing of transpeople, and if so i apologise.
Ive always known since very young same as most trans kids. When I was 9 I tried to kill myself because i was confused to why my body wasnt the way it should be.... You say thats society? The science is out there.
As for scoeitys opinions however, The way one should dress and look IS a problem. Eg: Unpassable trans women are seen as "men" because they hold masculine traits still, yet a feminine trans person is seen as "Wow you obvs were meant to be women all along" (Ive heard that a few times)
Also, A Girl should like dresses, heels and pink. A Trans person can still like masculine things regardless of there gender identity. So I agree with you 100% on that part.
As for the cause of it though, thats science not society. "My point was that society puts pressure on boys to be boys and girls to be girls. This kind of gender segregation must surely cause people born into the wrong body to feel anxious and depressed because they will want to be part of the group which they relate to the most i.e. the females. Yet feel ostracised and demonised simply because they are different on a physical level. If society was more accepting in general and less keen to put people in boxes, then i would hope that nobody would feel as marginalised, scared, and confused as people like yourself have done. I may be wrong though, and bow out to your superior knowledge on the subject | |||
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"Surely the overriding problem though is the fact that society deems sex and gender to be inseparable. If people could act male or female regardless of the bits in between their legs, then surely there would be no need for invasive surgery and potent hormonal treatments.. A child simply should not have to make that choice based on societal pressures! i can almost assure you from the word "go" i always knew something was not right with me. it was not from "societal pressure". If you research the science, you may get a grasp understanding of how Transgender children are made. One stage being we all start with a female chromo in the womb. That is a big hint of how it is caused... the rest is easy to guess. You may also want to search into the new "Trans MRI scans" they now offer in Europe to find-out if a child is indeed structed neurotically and functioned in the brain as the oppose gender. You don't just "wake up" like this unfortunately. its there from day one. just takes alot to realize and these children now have stronger role models that have platforms to speak up for them. If only i knew what was up with me when i was a child maybe, as i said, i could have started my blockers much younger. You've totally missed my point. The societal pressure of which I speak is that gender and sex cannot be mutually exclusive. I never suggested it was a choice you have made. However it is entirely society which makes you feel that you are in the 'wrong' body. It's not "society" at all. its science Look i'm not having a go, i've a lot of respect for trans people. Takes a lot of balls (or not as the case may be ) to face the stigma and bigotry.
You haven't grasped what I am saying, unless you are saying that anyone identifying as female has an innate instinct from birth to have breasts, and a vagina, and wear dresses and high heels. If that is the case then obviously i am wrong about the influence of society on the mental wellbeing of transpeople, and if so i apologise.
Ive always known since very young same as most trans kids. When I was 9 I tried to kill myself because i was confused to why my body wasnt the way it should be.... You say thats society? The science is out there.
As for scoeitys opinions however, The way one should dress and look IS a problem. Eg: Unpassable trans women are seen as "men" because they hold masculine traits still, yet a feminine trans person is seen as "Wow you obvs were meant to be women all along" (Ive heard that a few times)
Also, A Girl should like dresses, heels and pink. A Trans person can still like masculine things regardless of there gender identity. So I agree with you 100% on that part.
As for the cause of it though, thats science not society.
My point was that society puts pressure on boys to be boys and girls to be girls. This kind of gender segregation must surely cause people born into the wrong body to feel anxious and depressed because they will want to be part of the group which they relate to the most i.e. the females. Yet feel ostracised and demonised simply because they are different on a physical level.
If society was more accepting in general and less keen to put people in boxes, then i would hope that nobody would feel as marginalised, scared, and confused as people like yourself have done.
I may be wrong though, and bow out to your superior knowledge on the subject "Oh, well in that case, it's really down to the parents isn't it. If they allow there child to wear the appropiate clothing etc that they feel they should then that only leads to that child being a bit happier and at ease. I do know hat some of society are still behind and have a lot of catching up to do. i.e - america and its anti trans toilet laws in schools and public places. That, of course, would make life much more harder for anyone battling with gender dysphoria. But as I say, I agree with you there. But, mainly is down to the parent whether they want there child to be happy or depressed and suicidal xx | |||
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" Oh, well in that case, it's really down to the parents isn't it. If they allow there child to wear the appropiate clothing etc that they feel they should then that only leads to that child being a bit happier and at ease. I do know hat some of society are still behind and have a lot of catching up to do. i.e - america and its anti trans toilet laws in schools and public places. That, of course, would make life much more harder for anyone battling with gender dysphoria. But as I say, I agree with you there. But, mainly is down to the parent whether they want there child to be happy or depressed and suicidal xx" Yeah but its not just parents, as open minded as they may be, when their trans daughter goes to school they will likely be picked on by other kids for wearing the wrong clothes etc. It's definitely a problem on a societal level, and it needs dealing with through proper education! Only problem is the current educational system teaches regurgitation of (often incorrect) information, rather than critical thinking and appraisal. | |||
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