FabSwingers.com forum: Should militant teachers be sacked.

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

From media reports, some teachers are stating that they will/should/could disrupt the baseline tests for 4 yr olds, despite these being approved/favoured by the Tories/Labour and Liberals.

If they don't like the job, and perks, why not just leave for somewhere else?

Or be booted out.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Ok I'm probably going to get slated for this but I find the whole idea of testing 4 years olds wrong. Kids are not allowed to be kids anymore and I don't even agree with kids having to start school at 4.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Ok I'm probably going to get slated for this but I find the whole idea of testing 4 years olds wrong. Kids are not allowed to be kids anymore and I don't even agree with kids having to start school at 4. "

With you on this about time us 'grown ups' shut up and let kids be kids end off.

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By *unguy2757Man
over a year ago

newcastle

[Removed by poster at 05/04/15 00:35:30]

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By *unguy2757Man
over a year ago

newcastle

this ..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

totally agree with you here.. to be honest I would scrap tests until end of school exams to be fair.

Make teaching about learning instead of hitting targets.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

I fully agree with you, but, wasn't it Gordon Brown who started bribing parents into "free" nursery places provided that they were "taught" and that it ties in with the National Curriculum.

Now starting at age 2.

Happy to be corrected.

What would the same teachers say if and when their pupils say "i don't like your rules either Miss/Sir so i'm not complying". Chaos.

ps in my day, trying that was instant detention.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

With you on this about time us 'grown ups' shut up and let kids be kids end off. "

As a kid who took his first test at 11, and passed, next at 16 and passed and 18 and passed, then university and passed at 22, I can tell this you don't need any more than that. We had a fantastic education system and they've wrecked it both Labour and Tories. I'm socialist in leaning but the getting rid of grammar schools was the biggest mistake ever, also the comprehensive was a Tory idea to cut costs and lower in my opinion the standard as suddenly their were prime ministers that didn't go to public school, James Callaghan went to a secondary modern, underrated PM too, let down by his own side, Thatcher made millions out of the investments in new technology his administration invested in, the Japanese made billions.

4 years old, what they going to learn from that, yes they hate school, that's what they want a servile uneducated rabble to wash their cars.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm with most of the above... Our children are amongst the most tested in the world. There are countries who perform very well in international tests...where children set standardised tests far fewer times...in Finland, they don't start school, proper, till around 6-7 I believe...

I sometimes feel that the state wants the school system to fail so they can wash their hands off of it.... They clearly can't be so stupid so as to believe this is the right course of action...

Sad times.

If I could afford it, I'd homeschool.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Hell yeah, i'd vote immediately for all kids to start school some time after reaching 6 years of age (timings a bitch though).

Now, who's gonna stay at home and look after them all? Well, not all of em at once, at least yer own?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 05/04/15 01:40:03]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 05/04/15 01:38:07]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Hell yeah, i'd vote immediately for all kids to start school some time after reaching 6 years of age (timings a bitch though).

Now, who's gonna stay at home and look after them all? Well, not all of em at once, at least yer own?

There are communities scattered around, of homeschoolers, that share the responsibility amongst each other ..it's not easy..but since when is raising children ever easy.

Nothing really worth doing ever is...I've found.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If teachers were to want to negotiate...make a strong case...explain their reasons...can justify their position...and are then still ignored by the state... By all means take action..

I believe in this instance they are considering boycotting testing 4 year olds...

Wealthy individuals, groups, shareholders et al often lobby governments, make substantial donations, organise ferrero rocher parties and such like..to try to get what they want.

They don't leave for a 'better' job, instead they use any means available to change the conditions to favour them.

Working class folk tend not to have such means to influence...therefore organising boycotts, demonstrations and ultimately striking are their only means of making a stand and promoting their collective will to ensure they are heard.

Similarly, they'd rather not leave, instead they do what they can to change the conditions of their work.

Though latest reports suggest around 30% of teachers do leave within 1 year and 40% within 5, with around 11000 trained teachers deciding against entering the profession at the end of their training period. As a result we've got a shortage in certain subjects and unqualified teachers, who get a sugnificantly lower wage, are employed to help manage the problem.

In Finland and Shanghai also, I believe, the profession is treated better, they don't have an OFSTED, nor league tables nor constant testing...their children perform better than ours, their exams are more challenging than ours, and their teachers are required to have a masters degree before they can step into a classroom...

We can barely recruit teachers with a degree and when we do, 2 in 5 have had enough after 5 years!

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By *er himWoman
over a year ago

Essex

From media reports, some teachers are stating that they will/should/could disrupt the baseline tests for 4 yr olds, despite these being approved/favoured by the Tories/Labour and Liberals.

If they don't like the job, and perks, why not just leave for somewhere else?

Or be booted out.

Wonder if you would have the same opinion if it was Doctors and Surgeons saying they oppose an ill thought and imposed idea of Government.

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By *anchestercubMan
over a year ago

manchester & NI

I support the tests in theory.

If it's to assess the level a pupil is at in key skills and that information is used to then tailor teaching or for class streaming then I don't see the problem.

But I think the term 'test' makes it sound like some sort of exam, which is unnecessary and I personally feel that our education system already has too much of an emphasis on exams.

You can have a skills assessment without it being a test or exam.

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By *arry247Couple
over a year ago

Wakefield

Why is it assumed that tests are a new thing?

When I started school in the 1950s we had tests, in fact I and 4 others in my first year class at school were left down and went from class one to class one and a half.

From then on I was in the top 10% throughout my schooling.

What schools really need is better teachers as the standard of teaching has dropped.

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By *bsinthe_boyMan
over a year ago

Luton

You can't make great bacon by weighing pigs.

Currently an awful lot of weighing goes on in our schools. I have worked in a secondary school for 15 years and its not getting any better. Kids are increasingly treated as a homogeneous product, hearded into exams for the purpose of appeasing the gods of the league table.

I say let them be kids for a while.

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By *at69driveMan
over a year ago

Hertford

From media reports, some teachers are stating that they will/should/could disrupt the baseline tests for 4 yr olds, despite these being approved/favoured by the Tories/Labour and Liberals.

If they don't like the job, and perks, why not just leave for somewhere else?

Or be booted out.

"
. If I refused to follow my employers instructions , I would be sacked . Why should teachers be any different . Life is a series of tests and being tested will ensure that you concentrate on what you are being taught . It is inevitable that some will oerformn better than others . Some people are lucky to have good looks ,other don't so we have to accept in life that not everyone will achievevp the same results .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Why is it assumed that tests are a new thing?

When I started school in the 1950s we had tests, in fact I and 4 others in my first year class at school were left down and went from class one to class one and a half.

From then on I was in the top 10% throughout my schooling.

What schools really need is better teachers as the standard of teaching has dropped."

That's because people don't want to be teachers... The government launched teach first to get top graduates into the profession... They tend to stick around for a couple of years and then quit for jobs that pay more money and give them a better work life balance.

The curriculum is currently going through a massive overhaul because the government designed syllabus is considered very poor by international standards.

Primary schools are trialling books from Singapore with children to help them catch up.

The GCSE's are about to change their content after receiving criticism for being poorly designed.

League tables encourage teachers to teach the test as does performance related pay.

PRP was tried in the USA and was a failure. In fact a university conducted an experiment where they paid students money each week/month they maintained a certain average. Marginal gain overall compared to the hundreds of thousands put in..do the idea was abandoned.

Then there were the American teachers caught cheating - it's not the first time that's happened. The guy who wrote Freakinomics analysed results from various U.S. schools and found lots of evidence of it.

Countries that perform better than us test far less so can teach the subject.

Our current system of education is sadly not evidence based - it's almost as if the state wants it to fail.

The wealthy lobby and apply political pressure, the working class boycott.

It clearly works as Gove was moved out.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I support the tests in theory.

If it's to assess the level a pupil is at in key skills and that information is used to then tailor teaching or for class streaming then I don't see the problem.

But I think the term 'test' makes it sound like some sort of exam, which is unnecessary and I personally feel that our education system already has too much of an emphasis on exams.

You can have a skills assessment without it being a test or exam. "

The results of the tests at 4 years old are actually supposed to project what that child should get when they do their GCSE's 12 years later when they're 16.

With the pressure of league tables, many students will because the school will become an exam factory teaching the test...at each stage... To ensure the child is on the flight path which was determined for it at 4 years old.

Universities have been critical too after finding they kept having to go over basic material at the start of courses for new entrants. One university conducted a trial for the the top entrants - A/A* students were given a sample A-level exam to sit when they joined the course to see how much kniwledge they'd retained and were able to apply from two months ago. Most students did very poorly. The issue identified is that the students merely crammed information - they learnt to pass a test but didn't have an understanding of the subject. Likely because they were taught to pass a test...not learn the subject...this is reinforced by the private tutors wealthier parents invariably arrange for their kids.

One day, when the system breaks, we'll look toward high achieving countries like Finland and Singapore. Till then...I'm better off teaching my own children!

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By *cd and scruffCouple
over a year ago

Rochester

They are four years old for god's sake. Leave them alone to explore their world. Let the play. Let them be kids. Isn't that how we learnt at that age?

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

From media reports, some teachers are stating that they will/should/could disrupt the baseline tests for 4 yr olds, despite these being approved/favoured by the Tories/Labour and Liberals.

If they don't like the job, and perks, why not just leave for somewhere else?

Or be booted out.

Ja Vol Mein Fuhrer! Why do you think people who care about education are militant ?

By your thinking , teachers should just do exactly as they are told or don't be a teacher.

Tell it to the miners.

Tell it to the print workers

Tell it to Council workers

Tell it to nurses and doctors.

Thank God there are some teachers who will speak up when they see childrens' lives and education being ruined by interfering governmental initiatives.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

From media reports, some teachers are stating that they will/should/could disrupt the baseline tests for 4 yr olds, despite these being approved/favoured by the Tories/Labour and Liberals.

If they don't like the job, and perks, why not just leave for somewhere else?

Or be booted out.

Ja Vol Mein Fuhrer! Why do you think people who care about education are militant ?

By your thinking , teachers should just do exactly as they are told or don't be a teacher.

Tell it to the miners.

Tell it to the print workers

Tell it to Council workers

Tell it to nurses and doctors.

Thank God there are some teachers who will speak up when they see childrens' lives and education being ruined by interfering governmental initiatives. "

Yep! That's about the size of it.

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By *inaTitzTV/TS
over a year ago

Titz Towers, North Notts

I've a suspicion that teachers know more about teaching than politicians.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

"I've a suspicion that teachers know more about teaching than politicians.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"I've a suspicion that teachers know more about teaching than politicians.

this..

its another instance of people with no idea interfering in a profession they know zilch about..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I've a suspicion that teachers know more about teaching than politicians.

^^^ This!!

I find it incredible that the Minister for Education is uneducated about education. And still we vote???

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By *alandNitaCouple
over a year ago

Scunthorpe

"I've a suspicion that teachers know more about teaching than politicians.

At first glance Tina, everybody appears to know more about everything than politicians.

Cal

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