FabSwingers.com forum: hiv treatment for non British

By *ophieslut OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Central

Garage says we should not treat non British with HIV treatment.

Would you prefer we invest in their treatment if they live here?

It seems the decent thing to do and should help prevent more Brits from being infected and possibly mean reduced nhs cost longer term.

The statistics don't support his claims either.

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By *ophieslut OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Central

That should have read farage, not garage.

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By *ridmusCouple
over a year ago

sheffield

can of worms, all I would say is we treat too many people who walk in from abroad for nothing, and I don't make the rules, but we couldn't do it abroad.

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By *oward1978Man
over a year ago

Rotherham

"can of worms, all I would say is we treat too many people who walk in from abroad for nothing, and I don't make the rules, but we couldn't do it abroad."

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By *iewMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Angus & Findhorn

is that non Europeans ?

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By *illyrocCouple
over a year ago

north west

Why should we treat hiv victims from abroad I'd rather see the money spent on kids that can't get ops because of the costs

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By *issHottieBottieWoman
over a year ago

Kent

So we treat them for other stuff but if it's HIV we tell them to go away?

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By *ophieslut OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Central

The statistics show that all people treated were here long term before being treated, so may have caught infection here.

Would you prefer they are undiagnosed and potentially infect others, including have sex with you or your partners?

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By *osieWoman
over a year ago

Wembley

"Garage says we should not treat non British with HIV treatment.

Would you prefer we invest in their treatment if they live here?

It seems the decent thing to do and should help prevent more Brits from being infected and possibly mean reduced nhs cost longer term.

The statistics don't support his claims either."

The US and Australia do not permit people with infectious or fatal diseases entering their countries. If someone lies on their immigration forms then their sorry little asses are kicked all the way back to wherever they came from

This is not my country, so cannot comment. But I wish germany would adopt the same rules

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Garage says we should not treat non British with HIV treatment.

Would you prefer we invest in their treatment if they live here?

It seems the decent thing to do and should help prevent more Brits from being infected and possibly mean reduced nhs cost longer term.

The statistics don't support his claims either."

It was a crass statement to make a point. I don't know what the details are in the example he used, but when I go abroad I pay insurance to cover any medical needs.

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By *inaTitzTV/TS
over a year ago

Titz Towers, North Notts

"can of worms, all I would say is we treat too many people who walk in from abroad for nothing, and I don't make the rules, but we couldn't do it abroad."

Or on the other hand, how long before we don't treat people who don't work, pay taxes, or are likely to die soon, anyway?

It's a slippery slope saying who deserves and who doesn't deserve.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Often wondered why the NHS couldn't afford various cancer treatments, along with drugs such as meningitis immunisation taking so long to come along. Now i know. Thanks for showing me UKIP is the way.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"can of worms, all I would say is we treat too many people who walk in from abroad for nothing, and I don't make the rules, but we couldn't do it abroad.

Or on the other hand, how long before we don't treat people who don't work, pay taxes, or are likely to die soon, anyway?

It's a slippery slope saying who deserves and who doesn't deserve. "

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By *ridmusCouple
over a year ago

sheffield

realistically we have to be a little cut throat about it in some aspects we spend billions all over the world helping countries achieve various things, there has to be some point where as a country we have to rationalize and cut that spending and keep it here, im all for helping the impoverish but its heart breaking that we cant even look after our own citizens fully let alone the rest of the world.

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By *illyrocCouple
over a year ago

north west

"can of worms, all I would say is we treat too many people who walk in from abroad for nothing, and I don't make the rules, but we couldn't do it abroad.

Or on the other hand, how long before we don't treat people who don't work, pay taxes, or are likely to die soon, anyway?

It's a slippery slope saying who deserves and who doesn't deserve. "

Your putting your own spin on this any British person would be able to have nhs treatment wether working ,poor or rich but spreading the nhs overseas is not an option

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By *ophieslut OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Central

I think he doesn't rely on accuracy or the implications of what he says. He seemed a crackpot swivel eyed maniac out of control to me.

Seriously, these people live here. Do you want them not to be tested and treated?

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By *etitesaraTV/TS
over a year ago

rochdale

Hit by a car, in a plane crash, cancer, heavy drinker, heavy smoker.

Its not immigration that's a drain on the NHS - its bloody Nigel Farage!

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By *ophieslut OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Central

"Why should we treat hiv victims from abroad I'd rather see the money spent on kids that can't get ops because of the costs "

If you decide they get nothing, what are the implications for UK and other people who are uninfected atm, but may have sex with them or their partners? That could be any of us. And then the nhs pays a bigger treatment bill for more people. Babies could be infected. You really choose to deny treatments?

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By *osieWoman
over a year ago

Wembley

"I think he doesn't rely on accuracy or the implications of what he says. He seemed a crackpot swivel eyed maniac out of control to me.

Seriously, these people live here. Do you want them not to be tested and treated? "

Are they EEC citizens or are they not? Why are foreigners staying here for more than a maximum of 6 months against their visa restrictions?

As a German citizen, if I contracted HIV or anything else even half as serious, I would take the first flight back home for treatment

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Why should we treat hiv victims from abroad I'd rather see the money spent on kids that can't get ops because of the costs "

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By *ophieslut OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Central

Farage didn't say, in the debates last night where they were from. We have a few thousand people from African nations, according to nhs stats. Likely some from Europe and other places.

We have reciprocal agreements with EU countries for health treatment I believe.

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By *ophieslut OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Central

"Why should we treat hiv victims from abroad I'd rather see the money spent on kids that can't get ops because of the costs

So would I. What would you do with the HIV infected who live here now?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Is rather help someone with HIV who has settled here then to pay to keep the likes of Ian Huntley in jail.......... Its not only white people that pay tax.

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By *osieWoman
over a year ago

Wembley

"Farage didn't say, in the debates last night where they were from. We have a few thousand people from African nations, according to nhs stats. Likely some from Europe and other places.

We have reciprocal agreements with EU countries for health treatment I believe.

Please don't confuse the issue. EU citizens are entitled to treatment in the UK because UK citizens are entitled to treatment in the EU

I could not get free treatment in Africa, Asia, etc so why should EU countries (including the UK) foot the bill for foreigners overstaying their visas in the first place. Should they not be deported or is the UK so wealthy now that it can provide charity treatments to non-EU citizens when they it can barely provide first-world treatment to its' own citizens?

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By *illyrocCouple
over a year ago

north west

"Why should we treat hiv victims from abroad I'd rather see the money spent on kids that can't get ops because of the costs

So would I. What would you do with the HIV infected who live here now? "

Tell them not to have unprotected sex and inform people they intend to have sex with they have hiv

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Why should we treat hiv victims from abroad I'd rather see the money spent on kids that can't get ops because of the costs

So would I. What would you do with the HIV infected who live here now?

Tell them not to have unprotected sex and inform people they intend to have sex with they have hiv "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Garage says we should not treat non British with HIV treatment.

Would you prefer we invest in their treatment if they live here?

It seems the decent thing to do and should help prevent more Brits from being infected and possibly mean reduced nhs cost longer term.

The statistics don't support his claims either.

It was a crass statement to make a point. I don't know what the details are in the example he used, but when I go abroad I pay insurance to cover any medical needs."

Your insurance would not be valid for a pre-existing condition.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Is rather help someone with HIV who has settled here then to pay to keep the likes of Ian Huntley in jail.......... Its not only white people that pay tax. "

I see your point but huntley must be kept alive in jail. His life HAS to be wasted.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Garage says we should not treat non British with HIV treatment.

Would you prefer we invest in their treatment if they live here?

It seems the decent thing to do and should help prevent more Brits from being infected and possibly mean reduced nhs cost longer term.

The statistics don't support his claims either.

It was a crass statement to make a point. I don't know what the details are in the example he used, but when I go abroad I pay insurance to cover any medical needs.

Your insurance would not be valid for a pre-existing condition."

In which case I wouldn't expect to get treated.

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By *ophieslut OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Central

"Why should we treat hiv victims from abroad I'd rather see the money spent on kids that can't get ops because of the costs

So would I. What would you do with the HIV infected who live here now?

Tell them not to have unprotected sex and inform people they intend to have sex with they have hiv

But they wouldn't know they had HIV if we didn't test them. And I'm guessing if we charged for a test then less would take it.

Safer sex is only safer - not completely safe.

Overall if we don't test them or give treatment, which suppresses the virus, then our nhs could face a bigger bill, as an increasing number would be likely to become infected, including UK citizens.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"can of worms, all I would say is we treat too many people who walk in from abroad for nothing, and I don't make the rules, but we couldn't do it abroad.

Or on the other hand, how long before we don't treat people who don't work, pay taxes, or are likely to die soon, anyway?

It's a slippery slope saying who deserves and who doesn't deserve. "

It really doesn't fit comfortably with me discussing who should and shouldn't receive care.

And as the statistics don't back up his stance to me this isn't about this immigrants receiving care it's about HIV sufferers and likely reflects bigoted _iews about the people who are positive

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By *isscheekychopsWoman
over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

The think the U.S. have it right in some aspects as if you want to immigrate over there you have to have a health check and as part of that check you get tested for HIV. While I believe that those with HIV have a right to obtain treatment I do wonder how many do come over just purely to obtain treatment on the NHS..However on the other hand there are countries that don't have the treatments readily available and often very expensive it's a double edged sword

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By *isscheekychopsWoman
over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

"The think the U.S. have it right in some aspects as if you want to immigrate over there you have to have a health check and as part of that check you get tested for HIV. While I believe that those with HIV have a right to obtain treatment I do wonder how many do come over just purely to obtain treatment on the NHS..However on the other hand there are countries that don't have the treatments readily available and often very expensive it's a double edged sword "

Emigrate not immigrate

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By *londeCazWoman
over a year ago

Arse End of the Universe, Cumbria

I'm not overseen on treating any non EU folk for any illnesses for free to be honest...if I'm abroad, I have insurance to pay for treatment should I need it, and other countries manage to claim back the costs. I think as a country, we should be a little more firm in how we try to reclaim monies due the NHS from foreign nationals

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By *illyrocCouple
over a year ago

north west

"Why should we treat hiv victims from abroad I'd rather see the money spent on kids that can't get ops because of the costs

So would I. What would you do with the HIV infected who live here now?

Tell them not to have unprotected sex and inform people they intend to have sex with they have hiv

But they wouldn't know they had HIV if we didn't test them. And I'm guessing if we charged for a test then less would take it.

Safer sex is only safer - not completely safe.

Overall if we don't test them or give treatment, which suppresses the virus, then our nhs could face a bigger bill, as an increasing number would be likely to become infected, including UK citizens."

It's not the testing its the treatment for his at a cost of 25 grand a year

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West

There was a programme on TV a few nights ago about Brits in the Costa del Sol and how many of the local Spanish residents felt that the ageing Brits were an expense to their healthcare that they could not afford.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"It was a crass statement to make a point. I don't know what the details are in the example he used, but when I go abroad I pay insurance to cover any medical needs."

this..

but no surprise with his divide and 'rule' rhetoric..

not that he ever will rule..

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"There was a programme on TV a few nights ago about Brits in the Costa del Sol and how many of the local Spanish residents felt that the ageing Brits were an expense to their healthcare that they could not afford.

watched it and it was very interesting to see some of the Spanish people using the same language as one often see's on here..

ignorance and prejudice is everywhere..

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By *phroditeWoman
over a year ago

(She/ her) in Sensualityland

"It was a crass statement to make a point. I don't know what the details are in the example he used, but when I go abroad I pay insurance to cover any medical needs.

this..

but no surprise with his divide and 'rule' rhetoric..

not that he ever will rule.."

This

I also feel it was quite in bad taste to use HIV positive people (Does it really matter who they are? )as a means to gain voters. If I had toyed with the idea of voting for him, which I have not... this would have been enough for me to change my mind.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

if this is about cost why not think of the bigger picture?

reduce globally therefore making it locally ess likely.

our help to anyone that is outwith the country/continent surely will help US for future generations.

all this farage nonsense makes me think people are just IDIOTS!..and it is just another way of saying that something 'foreign' will cause us unmanageable problems.

read a science book on biology or even sociology before even thinking of what they think ONE SMALL island will benefit from utter isolation.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

How many people come to Britain with serious health problems knowing they will get treatment they have to pay for in their own countries? Without facts and figures it's difficult to comment,although my local clinic has a dedicated HIV/AIDS clinic and it's always full with African people. I don't know if they have lived here for years or months,I do know they need treating and once here we are obligated to treat them. Women used to come from other countries to have their babies here and go home after. Now this is a sign at the Maternity doors saying you need proof of residence/eligibility to have your baby there.

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By *at69driveMan
over a year ago

Hertford

"Garage says we should not treat non British with HIV treatment.

Would you prefer we invest in their treatment if they live here?

It seems the decent thing to do and should help prevent more Brits from being infected and possibly mean reduced nhs cost longer term.

The statistics don't support his claims either."
If people are already here we may have option but to treat them assuming they have British Citizenship and have entered the country legally . Assistance for any illness should be refused to health tourists . If I go abroad I make sure that I have valid insurance cover . Why should the UK treat those for any illness who have not paid into the NHS .

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By *LT22Man
over a year ago

Teddington

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Farage didn't say, in the debates last night where they were from. We have a few thousand people from African nations, according to nhs stats. Likely some from Europe and other places.

We have reciprocal agreements with EU countries for health treatment I believe.

Please don't confuse the issue. EU citizens are entitled to treatment in the UK because UK citizens are entitled to treatment in the EU

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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago

Bristol

Health tourists do not exist. If you are stupid enough to believe that they do, you are also stupid enough to vote UKIP.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Health tourists do not exist. If you are stupid enough to believe that they do, you are also stupid enough to vote UKIP."

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

funny that some of those on here saying that 'they' shouldn't get help over here are usually the same ones who rant about the foreign aid budget some of which is used in prevention..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"funny that some of those on here saying that 'they' shouldn't get help over here are usually the same ones who rant about the foreign aid budget some of which is used in prevention.. "

not those daily mail readers again ffs.........

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Garage says we should not treat non British with HIV treatment.

Would you prefer we invest in their treatment if they live here?

It seems the decent thing to do and should help prevent more Brits from being infected and possibly mean reduced nhs cost longer term.

The statistics don't support his claims either.

It was a crass statement to make a point. I don't know what the details are in the example he used, but when I go abroad I pay insurance to cover any medical needs.

Your insurance would not be valid for a pre-existing condition."

An undeclared medical condition.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Maybe not in terms of immediate response in relation to possible infection where time matters but if someone has gone years and only starts seeking treatment when they arrive in the UK then that is a bit suspect to me and they should pay for the treatment.

It would also depend on whether they were visiting on holiday, illegally, legally etc

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By *inaTitzTV/TS
over a year ago

Titz Towers, North Notts

I'd rather remember that there is a person suffering, rather than there may be a penny going on my income tax.

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By *phroditeWoman
over a year ago

(She/ her) in Sensualityland

"I'd rather remember that there is a person suffering, rather than there may be a penny going on my income tax. "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Health tourists do not exist. If you are stupid enough to believe that they do, you are also stupid enough to vote UKIP."

Or you know people who work or have worked in hospitals treating them. I would never vote Ukip,BNP,National front or any other party of that ilk. If this country is giving away something free people will come and claim it. I don't blame them. Free houses and money,according to the young man I worked with in Secondary school. Oh and the doctor who has gone back to his country of origin who still gets his prescriptions from here,who my best friend worked with. This country is ripe for picking,the people who live and work here are paying for it. That's people of all nationalities including migrants who pay tax.

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By *at69driveMan
over a year ago

Hertford

"Health tourists do not exist. If you are stupid enough to believe that they do, you are also stupid enough to vote UKIP."
. I thought that preventing health tourism was to ensure that NHS resources are used effectively and has little to do with politics or how you vote . Again I am uncertain as to how the prevention of health tourism can be equated to stupidity .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Health tourists do not exist. If you are stupid enough to believe that they do, you are also stupid enough to vote UKIP.. I thought that preventing health tourism was to ensure that NHS resources are used effectively and has little to do with politics or how you vote . Again I am uncertain as to how the prevention of health tourism can be equated to stupidity . "

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By *osieWoman
over a year ago

Wembley

"if this is about cost why not think of the bigger picture?

reduce globally therefore making it locally ess likely.

our help to anyone that is outwith the country/continent surely will help US for future generations.

all this farage nonsense makes me think people are just IDIOTS!..and it is just another way of saying that something 'foreign' will cause us unmanageable problems.

read a science book on biology or even sociology before even thinking of what they think ONE SMALL island will benefit from utter isolation."

The US and Autrailia are not small islands; those are big continents and they seem to be doing just fine implementing sensible immigration polices

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"if this is about cost why not think of the bigger picture?

reduce globally therefore making it locally ess likely.

our help to anyone that is outwith the country/continent surely will help US for future generations.

all this farage nonsense makes me think people are just IDIOTS!..and it is just another way of saying that something 'foreign' will cause us unmanageable problems.

read a science book on biology or even sociology before even thinking of what they think ONE SMALL island will benefit from utter isolation.

The US and Autrailia are not small islands; those are big continents and they seem to be doing just fine implementing sensible immigration polices"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Forget it being about HIV/AIDS, it should be the same for any non emergency or long term treatment. Either use your own countries health system or pay to use ours.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

At the end of the day we are all HUMAN and every life it's priceless

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

"if this is about cost why not think of the bigger picture?

reduce globally therefore making it locally ess likely.

our help to anyone that is outwith the country/continent surely will help US for future generations.

all this farage nonsense makes me think people are just IDIOTS!..and it is just another way of saying that something 'foreign' will cause us unmanageable problems.

read a science book on biology or even sociology before even thinking of what they think ONE SMALL island will benefit from utter isolation.

The US and Autrailia are not small islands; those are big continents and they seem to be doing just fine implementing sensible immigration polices"

Both those countries are populated almost entirely by immigrants.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"if this is about cost why not think of the bigger picture?

reduce globally therefore making it locally ess likely.

our help to anyone that is outwith the country/continent surely will help US for future generations.

all this farage nonsense makes me think people are just IDIOTS!..and it is just another way of saying that something 'foreign' will cause us unmanageable problems.

read a science book on biology or even sociology before even thinking of what they think ONE SMALL island will benefit from utter isolation.

The US and Autrailia are not small islands; those are big continents and they seem to be doing just fine implementing sensible immigration polices"

i havent read the facts ..are they?

so the US and AUST are the way to go?

brill...

lets see that pan out as i said..read a book on biology and sociology.

all i can think i with the thinking is lets close all borders(which affectively works to a degree, if u know how things actually work), but the aftermath is people being too fucjong stupid to realize when its time to change that.

eradicate disease worldwide is what being BRITISH really means. anyone else with another outlook is a fucking moron.simple.fact.

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By *osieWoman
over a year ago

Wembley

"if this is about cost why not think of the bigger picture?

reduce globally therefore making it locally ess likely.

our help to anyone that is outwith the country/continent surely will help US for future generations.

all this farage nonsense makes me think people are just IDIOTS!..and it is just another way of saying that something 'foreign' will cause us unmanageable problems.

read a science book on biology or even sociology before even thinking of what they think ONE SMALL island will benefit from utter isolation.

The US and Autrailia are not small islands; those are big continents and they seem to be doing just fine implementing sensible immigration polices

Both those countries are populated almost entirely by immigrants."

They WERE iimmigrants. They are US citizens now. You are not and you wil be sent back home or not even allowed to set foot there if you suffer from HIV

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Is rather help someone with HIV who has settled here then to pay to keep the likes of Ian Huntley in jail.......... Its not only white people that pay tax.

I see your point but huntley must be kept alive in jail. His life HAS to be wasted."

his life should be ended.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Forget it being about HIV/AIDS, it should be the same for any non emergency or long term treatment. Either use your own countries health system or pay to use ours."

Too right.

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By *osieWoman
over a year ago

Wembley

"if this is about cost why not think of the bigger picture?

reduce globally therefore making it locally ess likely.

our help to anyone that is outwith the country/continent surely will help US for future generations.

all this farage nonsense makes me think people are just IDIOTS!..and it is just another way of saying that something 'foreign' will cause us unmanageable problems.

read a science book on biology or even sociology before even thinking of what they think ONE SMALL island will benefit from utter isolation.

The US and Autrailia are not small islands; those are big continents and they seem to be doing just fine implementing sensible immigration polices

i havent read the facts ..are they?

so the US and AUST are the way to go?

brill...

lets see that pan out as i said..read a book on biology and sociology.

eradicate disease worldwide is what being BRITISH really means. anyone else with another outlook is a fucking moron.simple.fact."

But you know better than the policy makers in the US and Australia. Ofcourse you do!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"if this is about cost why not think of the bigger picture?

reduce globally therefore making it locally ess likely.

our help to anyone that is outwith the country/continent surely will help US for future generations.

all this farage nonsense makes me think people are just IDIOTS!..and it is just another way of saying that something 'foreign' will cause us unmanageable problems.

read a science book on biology or even sociology before even thinking of what they think ONE SMALL island will benefit from utter isolation.

The US and Autrailia are not small islands; those are big continents and they seem to be doing just fine implementing sensible immigration polices

Both those countries are populated almost entirely by immigrants.

They WERE iimmigrants. They are US citizens now. You are not and you wil be sent back home or not even allowed to set foot there if you suffer from HIV"

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

there is a reason why the conservatives stopped using the term "health tourism".... because the ONS (office of national statistics did a summery of where they measured the cost of it to be...

the daily mail use to often quote the figure of 2 billion pound..... the figure that UKIP use to quote..... on run with the scaremonger...

the figure the independent Office of national statistics worked it out to be...

70 million pounds.......

or to put that in the terms of the overall NHS budget.... that would be 0.06% of the total budget......

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By *isscheekychopsWoman
over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

Whrn I was going through the immigration process for the U.S. I had a test for HIV, TB and a health check. I can understand why they do it thry want disease control. I don't think its wrong to be honest.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"if this is about cost why not think of the bigger picture?

reduce globally therefore making it locally ess likely.

our help to anyone that is outwith the country/continent surely will help US for future generations.

all this farage nonsense makes me think people are just IDIOTS!..and it is just another way of saying that something 'foreign' will cause us unmanageable problems.

read a science book on biology or even sociology before even thinking of what they think ONE SMALL island will benefit from utter isolation.

The US and Autrailia are not small islands; those are big continents and they seem to be doing just fine implementing sensible immigration polices"

I think you'll find that the usa removed its restriction on entry of hiv+ people in January 2010. Australia doesn't bar entry to hiv+ people. It assesses them in the same way as other potential immigrants with a chronic disease.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The thing is,once someone is here,regardless of why,the human thing to do is treat them. Should we let them suffer? Not just HIV but heart problems or cancer. Who could turn a dying person away when they need help? I couldn't.

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By *ickjones993Man
over a year ago

heathrow

nigel garage ? i like it !

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"there is a reason why the conservatives stopped using the term "health tourism".... because the ONS (office of national statistics did a summery of where they measured the cost of it to be...

the daily mail use to often quote the figure of 2 billion pound..... the figure that UKIP use to quote..... on run with the scaremonger...

the figure the independent Office of national statistics worked it out to be...

70 million pounds.......

or to put that in the terms of the overall NHS budget.... that would be 0.06% of the total budget......

Utter bollocks. £70m.

The day ONS start to include such *costs* as :

a) A six year old child not receiving that life saving operation in time

b) thousands of youngsters not receiving an adequate education

because there are "insufficent" funds left to do so.

and in both instances the young ones fail to reach their full potental and earning capacities, ie wealth creation is the day i'll believe the ONS.

Weird innit, a RTA costs several millions at a time, because they do factor in all the extraneaous costs.

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By *osieWoman
over a year ago

Wembley

"if this is about cost why not think of the bigger picture?

reduce globally therefore making it locally ess likely.

our help to anyone that is outwith the country/continent surely will help US for future generations.

all this farage nonsense makes me think people are just IDIOTS!..and it is just another way of saying that something 'foreign' will cause us unmanageable problems.

read a science book on biology or even sociology before even thinking of what they think ONE SMALL island will benefit from utter isolation.

The US and Autrailia are not small islands; those are big continents and they seem to be doing just fine implementing sensible immigration polices

They assess them and refuse them entry.

Just like with people with TB

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"there is a reason why the conservatives stopped using the term "health tourism".... because the ONS (office of national statistics did a summery of where they measured the cost of it to be...

the daily mail use to often quote the figure of 2 billion pound..... the figure that UKIP use to quote..... on run with the scaremonger...

the figure the independent Office of national statistics worked it out to be...

70 million pounds.......

or to put that in the terms of the overall NHS budget.... that would be 0.06% of the total budget......

Utter bollocks. £70m.

The day ONS start to include such *costs* as :

a) A six year old child not receiving that life saving operation in time

b) thousands of youngsters not receiving an adequate education

because there are "insufficent" funds left to do so.

and in both instances the young ones fail to reach their full potental and earning capacities, ie wealth creation is the day i'll believe the ONS.

Weird innit, a RTA costs several millions at a time, because they do factor in all the extraneaous costs.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Anybody coming to this country should have health insurance to use our hospitals just like we do traveling abroad

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Anybody coming to this country should have health insurance to use our hospitals just like we do traveling abroad"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Anybody d*unk in A+E should be handed a bill as they leave.

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By *ayercakeMan
over a year ago

Gateshead

"Why should we treat hiv victims from abroad I'd rather see the money spent on kids that can't get ops because of the costs

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By *ayercakeMan
over a year ago

Gateshead

"Anybody coming to this country should have health insurance to use our hospitals just like we do traveling abroad"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"if this is about cost why not think of the bigger picture?

reduce globally therefore making it locally ess likely.

our help to anyone that is outwith the country/continent surely will help US for future generations.

all this farage nonsense makes me think people are just IDIOTS!..and it is just another way of saying that something 'foreign' will cause us unmanageable problems.

read a science book on biology or even sociology before even thinking of what they think ONE SMALL island will benefit from utter isolation.

The US and Autrailia are not small islands; those are big continents and they seem to be doing just fine implementing sensible immigration polices

i havent read the facts ..are they?

so the US and AUST are the way to go?

brill...

lets see that pan out as i said..read a book on biology and sociology.

eradicate disease worldwide is what being BRITISH really means. anyone else with another outlook is a fucking moron.simple.fact.

But you know better than the policy makers in the US and Australia. Ofcourse you do!"

Have you or you family ever been misdiagnosed by a doctor?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

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By *osieWoman
over a year ago

Wembley

Ofcourse every human life is precious. And there are 6 billion plus out there

Anyone who wants to remortgage their homes or see taxes increase to 90% basic (or thereabouts) please push past me in the queue

Go on, put your money where your mouth is. Talk is cheap.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Haven't i read somewhere that the drugs required to treat HIV/Aids are significantly cheaper in Southern Africa than they are here? By orders of magnitude.

So, why don't they go there for treatment?

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By *ayercakeMan
over a year ago

Gateshead

"Forget it being about HIV/AIDS, it should be the same for any non emergency or long term treatment. Either use your own countries health system or pay to use ours."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Ofcourse every human life is precious. And there are 6 billion plus out there

Anyone who wants to remortgage their homes or see taxes increase to 90% basic (or thereabouts) please push past me in the queue

Go on, put your money where your mouth is. Talk is cheap.

psst well over 7bn by now.

Though i do believe population control ( if it should occur) should do so at each end of the scale, ie let some folks die off.

We can't keep everyone alive until they're 100+.

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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago

Derby

He got his statistics Slightly wrong, not wrong as the OP states... he said 7,000 new diagnosis of HIV every year, of which 60% are non-british, the last year's figures available (2013) are 6,000, previously 7,000. Of those 6,000, 1,000 refused to give their nationality. If the ones that did, 54% were non British. If you said that the 1,000 refusing to give their nationality were non-british ( if you were British why would you hide it?), then the percentage, 61%.

As someone who has had neighbours that have come over as health tourists, and then had their bill sent to me... my opinion is people who are not British, nor have insurance or the equivalent of an E111 card... they should be refused any treatment.

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"Anybody d*unk in A+E should be handed a bill as they leave. "

and this is the danger.....

what about smokers.... do we start changing them as well.....

the "EU" arguement is a red herring because the countries actually end up getting a bill fromm each other if they have treatment within that countries state system....

so what we are talking about is non eu treatments as opposed to treatment for people who smoke... or people who end up having treatment when d*unk...

oooh... what about treatment for drug users..... that must cost a fortune.....

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By *ayercakeMan
over a year ago

Gateshead

"Farage didn't say, in the debates last night where they were from. We have a few thousand people from African nations, according to nhs stats. Likely some from Europe and other places.

We have reciprocal agreements with EU countries for health treatment I believe.

Please don't confuse the issue. EU citizens are entitled to treatment in the UK because UK citizens are entitled to treatment in the EU

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By *osieWoman
over a year ago

Wembley

"Ofcourse every human life is precious. And there are 6 billion plus out there

Anyone who wants to remortgage their homes or see taxes increase to 90% basic (or thereabouts) please push past me in the queue

Go on, put your money where your mouth is. Talk is cheap.

psst well over 7bn by now.

.....

See. This is what unprotected swinging does. More pregnancies.

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By *ayercakeMan
over a year ago

Gateshead

"He got his statistics Slightly wrong, not wrong as the OP states... he said 7,000 new diagnosis of HIV every year, of which 60% are non-british, the last year's figures available (2013) are 6,000, previously 7,000. Of those 6,000, 1,000 refused to give their nationality. If the ones that did, 54% were non British. If you said that the 1,000 refusing to give their nationality were non-british ( if you were British why would you hide it?), then the percentage, 61%.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Haven't i read somewhere that the drugs required to treat HIV/Aids are significantly cheaper in Southern Africa than they are here? By orders of magnitude.

So, why don't they go there for treatment?

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By *at69driveMan
over a year ago

Hertford

"The thing is,once someone is here,regardless of why,the human thing to do is treat them. Should we let them suffer? Not just HIV but heart problems or cancer. Who could turn a dying person away when they need help? I couldn't."
. If someone came here just to get treatment they should be turned away yes . If we fail to turn them away , all we are doing is encouraging others to come . NHS resources are limited . Taxes are high enough already without having to incur additional costs of treating these people.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Anybody d*unk in A+E should be handed a bill as they leave.

and this is the danger.....

what about smokers.... do we start changing them as well.....

the "EU" arguement is a red herring because the countries actually end up getting a bill fromm each other if they have treatment within that countries state system....

so what we are talking about is non eu treatments as opposed to treatment for people who smoke... or people who end up having treatment when d*unk...

oooh... what about treatment for drug users..... that must cost a fortune....."

Smokers are already bottom of the list when it comes to care despite the amount of tax paid in (11 billion in, about 7 billion out) what about sports people with self inflicted injuries? The morbidly obese?

And Farrage married a German who uses our health service. No mention of her from him.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

I haven't read through the thread. I can guess what has been said.

More or Less covered the stats raised last night.

I have worked in HIV and maintain an interest. The stats are for those born outside of the UK. This could mean British citizens who were not born here as well as nationals from ANYWHERE in the world, not just the poor countries or the black people.

The numbers are down for foreign nationals receiving treatment in this country, including those who pay for their treatment.

The soundbite that lumps everyone together has done what it was aimed to do.

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By *ayercakeMan
over a year ago

Gateshead

"Anybody d*unk in A+E should be handed a bill as they leave.

and this is the danger.....

what about smokers.... do we start changing them as well.....

the "EU" arguement is a red herring because the countries actually end up getting a bill fromm each other if they have treatment within that countries state system....

so what we are talking about is non eu treatments as opposed to treatment for people who smoke... or people who end up having treatment when d*unk...

oooh... what about treatment for drug users..... that must cost a fortune....."

you are missing the point, if you are not an EU citizen or a UK citizen you should not get anything but emergency treatment without a means to pay for it. This country does not have the funds to treat everyone who can get here and steal services from us.

Fabio your other argument about smokers etc is a whole different thing.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The thing is,once someone is here,regardless of why,the human thing to do is treat them. Should we let them suffer? Not just HIV but heart problems or cancer. Who could turn a dying person away when they need help? I couldn't.. If someone came here just to get treatment they should be turned away yes . If we fail to turn them away , all we are doing is encouraging others to come . NHS resources are limited . Taxes are high enough already without having to incur additional costs of treating these people."

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By *ayercakeMan
over a year ago

Gateshead

"The thing is,once someone is here,regardless of why,the human thing to do is treat them. Should we let them suffer? Not just HIV but heart problems or cancer. Who could turn a dying person away when they need help? I couldn't.. If someone came here just to get treatment they should be turned away yes . If we fail to turn them away , all we are doing is encouraging others to come . NHS resources are limited . Taxes are high enough already without having to incur additional costs of treating these people."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Anybody d*unk in A+E should be handed a bill as they leave.

and this is the danger.....

what about smokers.... do we start changing them as well.....

the "EU" arguement is a red herring because the countries actually end up getting a bill fromm each other if they have treatment within that countries state system....

so what we are talking about is non eu treatments as opposed to treatment for people who smoke... or people who end up having treatment when d*unk...

oooh... what about treatment for drug users..... that must cost a fortune.....

Fabio your other argument about smokers etc is a whole different thing."

And d*unks in A+E are a massive drain. We could pay for all the kids ops and old people's hips without them.

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By *osieWoman
over a year ago

Wembley

The number of people who have worked with HIV patients, run 2 million 'quid' businesses is on the increase here

Like I said, those who want to pay for foreigners getting treatment here, please do

And although entitled to treatment here, apart from a flu jab, I would much, much. much rather return home for anything serious. And I have the couple of times I needed to in last 20 years. It is a cost of a flight vs my life

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Anybody d*unk in A+E should be handed a bill as they leave.

and this is the danger.....

what about smokers.... do we start changing them as well.....

the "EU" arguement is a red herring because the countries actually end up getting a bill fromm each other if they have treatment within that countries state system....

so what we are talking about is non eu treatments as opposed to treatment for people who smoke... or people who end up having treatment when d*unk...

oooh... what about treatment for drug users..... that must cost a fortune....."

People who live here and pay taxes here are entitled to care here. People who know they have costly health problems come to get free treatment. My mum has smoked for 60 years and at the age of 83 has never had a hospital stay,apart from maternity,and never had free treatment for any illnesses. Should she get a rebate on her smoker's tax?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Anybody coming to this country should have health insurance to use our hospitals just like we do traveling abroad"

You cant buy health insurance to cover you in another country permanently...travel insurance is entirely different to health insurance

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

OK, if we're going to start listing all the things that cost a lot that could pay for other things where does it stop?

How about premature babies? Especially the ones that go on to be a further drain by being disabled. And while we're there what about those disabled people with all their expensive equipment and benefits? What about the fat folk getting diabetes?

This country has kept a lid on an HIV explosion that could have happened by treating people. We have free GUM and sexual health treatment.

All you swingers taking up time with regular testing and grabbing bags of free condoms could well be using up the money for a hip op in your area.

We largely keep a lid on TB by treating street homeless people, when we can. How are you going to decide who does and doesn't get the treatment and are you willing to risk you getting TB for your decision?

Making public healthcare decisions is not as simple or straightforward as charge those who are not UK citizens who pay into the system.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The number of people who have worked with HIV patients, run 2 million 'quid' businesses is on the increase here

Like I said, those who want to pay for foreigners getting treatment here, please do

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Anyway, wasnt Farages point aimed at stopping letting people in with in HIV as opposed to refusing treatment to foreigners who are already in?? Sounds fair enough to me

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

"OK, if we're going to start listing all the things that cost a lot that could pay for other things where does it stop?

This country has kept a lid on an HIV explosion that could have happened by treating people. We have free GUM and sexual health treatment.

All you swingers taking up time with regular testing and grabbing bags of free condoms could well be using up the money for a hip op in your area.

Making public healthcare decisions is not as simple or straightforward as charge those who are not UK citizens who pay into the system.

Can't we put them all into camps and.....

Oh, wait.....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Anyway, wasnt Farages point aimed at stopping letting people in with in HIV as opposed to refusing treatment to foreigners who are already in?? Sounds fair enough to me"

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By *osieWoman
over a year ago

Wembley

The one and only guy who I would conceivably call my boyfriend, is American. He is not really entitled to free care here. He pays for his treatment here or just hops on a flight back to Denver. I am entitled to free treatment here but I still hop on a flight to Munster

We both pay taxes here and own property here!

So why on Earth should non-EU citizens not have to pay?

Either some people here are just plain stupid or far too emotional or just want to be seen as 'humanitarian'

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Garage says we should not treat non British with HIV treatment.

Would you prefer we invest in their treatment if they live here?

It seems the decent thing to do and should help prevent more Brits from being infected and possibly mean reduced nhs cost longer term.

The statistics don't support his claims either.

This is not my country, so cannot comment. But I wish germany would adopt the same rules"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The one and only guy who I would conceivably call my boyfriend, is American. He is not really entitled to free care here. He pays for his treatment here or just hops on a flight back to Denver. I am entitled to free treatment here but I still hop on a flight to Munster

We both pay taxes here and own property here!

So why on Earth should non-EU citizens not have to pay?

Either some people here are just plain stupid or far too emotional or just want to be seen as 'humanitarian'

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

We both pay taxes here and own property here!

So why on Earth should non-EU citizens not have to pay?

Either some people here are just plain stupid or far too emotional or just want to be seen as 'humanitarian'

I don't want to be seen as humanitarian - I am humanitarian. It's not an insult.

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By *iewMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Angus & Findhorn

This won't end well..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm more than happy for my taxes to go to treat anyone who is in this country. We have a brilliant socialist healthcare system, it shouldn't only be for those that pay money into it.

I don't think we pay very much money in taxes personally. I would be happy to pay more if it meant that there didn't even have to be a discussion about this kind of thing.

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

Please keep it civil if you are going to join in

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

Please keep it civil if you are going to join in"

PS if you quoted the abusive posts you will need to post your points again as they had to be removed

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By *isscheekychopsWoman
over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

"This won't end well.."

I tell you there is something in the Easter eggs...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"This won't end well..

I tell you there is something in the Easter eggs...

There was

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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago

upton wirral

"Why should we treat hiv victims from abroad I'd rather see the money spent on kids that can't get ops because of the costs "

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By *ophieslut OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Central

quote . . .Why should we treat hiv victims from abroad I'd rather see the money spent on kids that can't get ops because of the costs quote

To start with, it could save your life.

It could prevent HIV infecting someone in the swinging world and thus others.

It could prevent your unborn children from being infected.

These people are living here. If we don't treat them, the costs long term could be vastly higher that our nhs pays, treating adults and children who are UK citizens - the simple math's make it cost effective.

Anyone practicing safer sex is still at risk.

If you bury your children, because some politician encourages inhumane denial of treatment, could you feel comfortable thinking it was a right minded politician?

I lost a close friend I worked with to AIDS, as well as his partner. I'd not wish their suffering on anyone.

It's partly about the unintended consequences of what happens, because someone doesn't think through what their plan really means.

These people are refugees etc here, it is their home.

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By *orestersCouple
over a year ago

The Forest

"Anyway, wasnt Farages point aimed at stopping letting people in with in HIV as opposed to refusing treatment to foreigners who are already in?? Sounds fair enough to me"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 03/04/15 23:54:32]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

In Australia if a foreigner falls ill with a lifelong illness, their visa gets cancelled and deported. Sounds a good idea, but where do you stop?? At the moment in Australia, a mother who came with a study visa and whose son been in Australia since he was 2, now 6, has had her visa cancelled and threaten deportation all because her son has recently been diagnosed with autism. She's now a fully qualified nurse and wants to work. Where will it end??

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By *ophieslut OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Central

Farage stated that 60% of people who are diagnosed here as having HIV are 'foreigners'. So these people are already here.

Nhs records list a few thousand from African countries who were diagnosed a long while after their arrival here. Obviously confidentiality exists and Farage didn't list his sources, so I'm just piecing some sense out of what is seemingly rabble rousing nonsense, possibly with scant regard for evidence or fact on his behalf.

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By *ophieslut OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Central

"Anyway, wasnt Farages point aimed at stopping letting people in with in HIV as opposed to refusing treatment to foreigners who are already in?? Sounds fair enough to me

No it was about people who are already here. He'd like less foreign people here too.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Anyway, wasnt Farages point aimed at stopping letting people in with in HIV as opposed to refusing treatment to foreigners who are already in?? Sounds fair enough to me

No it was about people who are already here. He'd like less foreign people here too."

Ok ok i already said I'd vote for him! You can stop the hard sell!

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By *anchestercubMan
over a year ago

manchester & NI

Farage made a moot point as far as I'm concerned.

I don't think there is any link between HIV treatment and health tourism. It's a chronic condition that would require someone to live here.

So if you're resident here or have asylum status and that qualifies you as having access to the NHS then so be it.

Most people on average salaries or below probably won't pay enough in NIC or income tax to cover their own costs over their lifetimes pound for pound. So I find all the self-pontificating ridiculous.

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By *phroditeWoman
over a year ago

(She/ her) in Sensualityland

I don't want to be seen as humanitarian - I am humanitarian. It's not an insult.

"
This 100%

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If people are allowed to live in the UK as UK citizens they should be treated for any illness, to suggest turning away and refuse treatment to any Ill person regardless of their illness seems ridiculous to me

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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago

Derby

"Farage stated that 60% of people who are diagnosed here as having HIV are 'foreigners'. So these people are already here.

It was reported on radio 4 yesterday that he got his facts wrong.... the figures are produced by the NHS, so he has no secret 'source'. The NHS does not ask if people are domiciled in the UK, merely what country they were born in.

The figure of 60% non-british diagnosed with HIV is wrong... it's actually, according to the NHS, 54%.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Often wondered why the NHS couldn't afford various cancer treatments, along with drugs such as meningitis immunisation taking so long to come along. Now i know. Thanks for showing me UKIP is the way.

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By *ukus 62Woman
over a year ago

Essex

I did not watch the debate but from what i have read is really disturbing coming from a few ppl on here, makes you think what about the rest of the world around us . Scares me how i am going to be perceived as an African.

I feel sorry for the sufferers how they must be feeling now i am sure some were born with HIV through different/difficult circumstances living their countries to seek refuge plus treatment.

Had this been put out in the open, im sure they would have paid for it.

Mind you some of the immigrants volunteered to have the HIV tests so that they can also take part in experimental drugs as to find the cure too.

Im now going to think twice before going to GUM clinic

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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago

Bristol

Because health tourism does not exist.

So vote for someone on the pretext that they will solve or prevent a none existent problem is the very definition of stupidity.

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By *at69driveMan
over a year ago

Hertford

Because health tourism does not exist.

So vote for someone on the pretext that they will solve or prevent a none existent problem is the very definition of stupidity."
. How can you Chaim that health tourism does not exist or are you saving that the ons statistics are wrong. ? I thought that the difficulty was in identifying the size of the problem. Why would there be any correlation between health tourism and people voting UKIP. Those concerned about health tourism recognise that NHS resources are limited and we all have a responsibility to ensure that they. are used effectively .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Why should we treat hiv victims from abroad I'd rather see the money spent on kids that can't get ops because of the costs "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

How do we choose who and what illnesses we treat

Do we give a list out to all immigrants of what we will and won't treat

Yes you can come into our country but if you have HIV we'll leave you to die?

Do people really believe its OK to not treat people who have been given citizenship in this country?

Would we really sit back and watch an ill person die because they were born else where

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"How do we choose who and what illnesses we treat

Do we give a list out to all immigrants of what we will and won't treat

Yes you can come into our country but if you have HIV we'll leave you to die?

Do people really believe its OK to not treat people who have been given citizenship in this country?

Would we really sit back and watch an ill person die because they were born else where

things like hiv is catching as you know and cost an awful lot of money to treat, people who have it have to take drugs for the rest of their lives, so why would we want people coming into this country spreading disease and costing the nhs a lot of money.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

"How do we choose who and what illnesses we treat

Do we give a list out to all immigrants of what we will and won't treat

Yes you can come into our country but if you have HIV we'll leave you to die?

Do people really believe its OK to not treat people who have been given citizenship in this country?

Would we really sit back and watch an ill person die because they were born else where

Some people say they would but when it came down to it humanity and compassion would take over, some people say they would and really would.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"How do we choose who and what illnesses we treat

Do we give a list out to all immigrants of what we will and won't treat

Yes you can come into our country but if you have HIV we'll leave you to die?

Do people really believe its OK to not treat people who have been given citizenship in this country?

Would we really sit back and watch an ill person die because they were born else where

What if they are only diagnosed with HIV after coming into the country or what if they contract HIV after moving here?

If people do not want to treat dying people fair enough but I see no point in allowing people into the country if we are going to turn our backs on them once they are here

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" so why would we want people coming into this country spreading disease and costing the nhs a lot of money."

So now we're assuming that because they are immigrants they will be coming into the country fucking all the locals unprotected

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" so why would we want people coming into this country spreading disease and costing the nhs a lot of money.

So now we're assuming that because they are immigrants they will be coming into the country fucking all the locals unprotected

they might be, and aren't people always saying there is no such thing as 100% safe sex and only no sex is safe sex.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What are we classing as none British though

People who were not born in this country or people who are still waiting on citizenship?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"What are we classing as none British though

People who were not born in this country or people who are still waiting on citizenship?"

people who have come here with the right qualifications to get a job, not illegals who come here just for the free nhs and benefits.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

"What are we classing as none British though

People who were not born in this country or people who are still waiting on citizenship?

people who have come here with the right qualifications to get a job, not illegals who come here just for the free nhs and benefits."

How do illegals get benefits?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"What are we classing as none British though

People who were not born in this country or people who are still waiting on citizenship?

people who have come here with the right qualifications to get a job, not illegals who come here just for the free nhs and benefits.

How do illegals get benefits?"

well they shouldn't do should they.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I really can't see someome who's in the country illegally going to sign on down the job centre

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

There is another fact people coming from third world countries, we're a third world country, we're running our Health service on credit and what we've sold off, North Sea oil and its dwindling apart from the debt. Our trade deficit is astronomical the Chinese could bankrupt us tomorrow. We can't afford to give free health care.

Just because Farage is right wing doesn't make him wrong. Just needs to be addressed by some other party.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

"There is another fact people coming from third world countries, we're a third world country, we're running our Health service on credit and what we've sold off, North Sea oil and its dwindling apart from the debt. Our trade deficit is astronomical the Chinese could bankrupt us tomorrow. We can't afford to give free health care.

Just because Farage is right wing doesn't make him wrong. Just needs to be addressed by some other party.

We are not a third world country or even close to it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It is a sad fact that if you try and tell the truth, especially if you're a politician, you are labelled "right wing" rather than "honest".

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Just because Farage is right wing doesn't make him wrong. Just needs to be addressed by some other party.

We are not a third world country or even close to it."

Is our national debt larger or smaller than, say , Somalia's?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Just because Farage is right wing doesn't make him wrong. Just needs to be addressed by some other party.

We are not a third world country or even close to it."

its possible we could be if we carry on the way we are going. not all imigrants are going to be nice people some of them will be sex offenders, or violent criminals who could give people hiv.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I really can't see someome who's in the country illegally going to sign on down the job centre

No,but when they need medical treatment they have to either share antibiotics given to someone else or use someone else's credentials to get treatment. I've seen signs in A&E saying proof of residency needed for treatment.

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

I think Farage made a good point. Its a National Health Service, not a World Health Service. It should be free for British citizens, those coming in from abroad should have health insurance, until they have paid into the system for at least 5 years.

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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago

Derby

Because health tourism does not exist.

So vote for someone on the pretext that they will solve or prevent a none existent problem is the very definition of stupidity."

We had a family of illegals move next door for about 9 months. One of them had cancer, they had come to Britain for treatment. One night they did a moonlight flit and went, the same day that they had had the police turn up.

2 weeks later I had a bill from the local health authority for nearly £10,000 for non-resident treatment. They had given my address.

So I'm sorry to have to inform you, but health tourism most certainly DOES exist. Anybody who thinks it doesn't us clearly stupidity personified.

In my opinion, the money for treatment for non-British should be collected up front if they are not living here or have not paid into the NHS for an extensive period of time. Same for claiming benefit.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I think Farage made a good point. Its a National Health Service, not a World Health Service. It should be free for British citizens, those coming in from abroad should have health insurance, until they have paid into the system for at least 5 years. "

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"funny that some of those on here saying that 'they' shouldn't get help over here are usually the same ones who rant about the foreign aid budget some of which is used in prevention.. "

A yougov poll a few months ago showed a 66% majority would like to see the foreign aid budget cut.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"funny that some of those on here saying that 'they' shouldn't get help over here are usually the same ones who rant about the foreign aid budget some of which is used in prevention..

A yougov poll a few months ago showed a 66% majority would like to see the foreign aid budget cut. "

I think maybe it might be better to redistribute it not cut it.

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By *osieWoman
over a year ago

Wembley

"How do we choose who and what illnesses we treat

Do we give a list out to all immigrants of what we will and won't treat

Yes you can come into our country but if you have HIV we'll leave you to die?

Do people really believe its OK to not treat people who have been given citizenship in this country?

Would we really sit back and watch an ill person die because they were born else where

No, it is not OK not to treat people for a particular illness or indeed, any illness, if they are EU citizens

Yes, it is OK not to treat people for a particular illness or indeed, any illness, if they are not EU citizens

Yes, it is OK not to treat people for a particular illness or indeed, any illness, if they are now EU citizens but had lied about their health on their immigration forms. Just like lying about ones' health for obtaining health insurance invalidates ones' insurance policy. It is called, fraud

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Everyone's just so opinionated on here eh?

Why don't you all go out and do something productive for the day instead of sitting on here trowing verbal mud at each other all day long nearly every day of the feckin week...

Has anyone even noticed this year's spring is here? Or have you not noticed due to number of screens you're all surrounded by all day long?

Go on, belt feed me, I dare you to

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By *anchestercubMan
over a year ago

manchester & NI

Why can't we British people pay into the system for 5 years before we can use it?

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"Everyone's just so opinionated on here eh?

Why don't you all go out and do something productive for the day instead of sitting on here trowing verbal mud at each other all day long nearly every day of the feckin week...

Has anyone even noticed this year's spring is here? Or have you not noticed due to number of screens you're all surrounded by all day long?

Go on, belt feed me, I dare you to

I do get out, was at chams last night.

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By *at69driveMan
over a year ago

Hertford

"Everyone's just so opinionated on here eh?

Why don't you all go out and do something productive for the day instead of sitting on here trowing verbal mud at each other all day long nearly every day of the feckin week...

Has anyone even noticed this year's spring is here? Or have you not noticed due to number of screens you're all surrounded by all day long?

Go on, belt feed me, I dare you to

"
. I have been out in the garden planting Dalhias .I read the forums between breaks and find most of the posts on her iinteresting, regardless or whether I agree with them or not.

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By *osieWoman
over a year ago

Wembley

Why can't we British people pay into the system for 5 years before we can use it?"

Birth-right

Just as Nigerians or Somalians or Egyptians or Iraqis or whoever do not have to pay before receiving treatment in their own countries (assuming they have a system similar to National Health Care)

However, an EU citizen will have to pay in those countries even if those countries have a National Health Care system there

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Health tourists do not exist. "

Do they or don't they...?

I'm confuzzled because if they don't or the problem is very isolated, then what's the point of this thread?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"funny that some of those on here saying that 'they' shouldn't get help over here are usually the same ones who rant about the foreign aid budget some of which is used in prevention..

A yougov poll a few months ago showed a 66% majority would like to see the foreign aid budget cut. "

Actually it showed 61%. The one that showed 66% was at least 6 months earlier.

Three other yougov polls after the one that you've quoted showed majorities of 76% or more in favour of foreign aid.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I may be wrong but it sounded like farage was speaking about legal immigrants...

A few blood tests before people arrive should suffice...?

If they contract HIV here...that feels like a very different issue.

It does feel a little inhumane to just turn people away who are already simply because they were born somewhere else.

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By *anchestercubMan
over a year ago

manchester & NI

Why can't we British people pay into the system for 5 years before we can use it?

Birth-right

Just as Nigerians or Somalians or Egyptians or Iraqis or whoever do not have to pay before receiving treatment in their own countries (assuming they have a system similar to National Health Care)

However, an EU citizen will have to pay in those countries even if those countries have a National Health Care system there"

Why should British taxpayers pay for other Brits who contribute little or nothing to the system or earn below the tax threshold?

If birthright counted towards absolute entitlement to public services then there wouldn't be so much support for welfare cuts.

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

Why can't we British people pay into the system for 5 years before we can use it?

Birth-right

Just as Nigerians or Somalians or Egyptians or Iraqis or whoever do not have to pay before receiving treatment in their own countries (assuming they have a system similar to National Health Care)

However, an EU citizen will have to pay in those countries even if those countries have a National Health Care system there

Why should British taxpayers pay for other Brits who contribute little or nothing to the system or earn below the tax threshold?

If birthright counted towards absolute entitlement to public services then there wouldn't be so much support for welfare cuts. "

Are you suggesting we re-name it the World health service then?

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By *anchestercubMan
over a year ago

manchester & NI

Why can't we British people pay into the system for 5 years before we can use it?

Birth-right

Just as Nigerians or Somalians or Egyptians or Iraqis or whoever do not have to pay before receiving treatment in their own countries (assuming they have a system similar to National Health Care)

However, an EU citizen will have to pay in those countries even if those countries have a National Health Care system there

Why should British taxpayers pay for other Brits who contribute little or nothing to the system or earn below the tax threshold?

If birthright counted towards absolute entitlement to public services then there wouldn't be so much support for welfare cuts.

Are you suggesting we re-name it the World health service then? "

No, my point is that we all pay for things we don't support one way or the other - we can all pick and choose to suit our own agenda.

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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago

Bristol

"I think Farage made a good point."

It's as soon as someone says something like this that I start to wonder if the people who think there should be an intelligence test before being allowed the vote might just be on to something.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If birthright counted towards absolute entitlement to public services then there wouldn't be so much support for welfare cuts. "

If you speak to staunch conservatives and libertarians you'll find they feel a national health service is immoral as people are being coerced into paying for other people's medical treatment. Coerced because if you don't pay your taxes, you are imprisoned.

From a philosophical perspective the 'fairest' way is that everyone pays for themselves....and the wealthy can choose to help the rest of us if they wanted to.

Not sure I like that type of society but if people are going to discount done groups from healthcare, we may as well start at home.

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By *osieWoman
over a year ago

Wembley

Why can't we British people pay into the system for 5 years before we can use it?

Birth-right

Just as Nigerians or Somalians or Egyptians or Iraqis or whoever do not have to pay before receiving treatment in their own countries (assuming they have a system similar to National Health Care)

However, an EU citizen will have to pay in those countries even if those countries have a National Health Care system there

Why should British taxpayers pay for other Brits who contribute little or nothing to the system or earn below the tax threshold?

If birthright counted towards absolute entitlement to public services then there wouldn't be so much support for welfare cuts.

Are you suggesting we re-name it the World health service then?

No, my point is that we all pay for things we don't support one way or the other - we can all pick and choose to suit our own agenda. "

And in that case, you are welcome to pick up a £25,000 invoice for a non-EU citizen receiving medical treatment here. Contact the hospital and send them your address for billing

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By *not69Man
over a year ago

Burnley

"I'm not overseen on treating any non EU folk for any illnesses for free to be honest...if I'm abroad, I have insurance to pay for treatment should I need it, and other countries manage to claim back the costs. I think as a country, we should be a little more firm in how we try to reclaim monies due the NHS from foreign nationals"

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By *anchestercubMan
over a year ago

manchester & NI

No, my point is that we all pay for things we don't support one way or the other - we can all pick and choose to suit our own agenda.

And in that case, you are welcome to pick up a £25,000 invoice for a non-EU citizen receiving medical treatment here. Contact the hospital and send them your address for billing

Luckily for me in that case that the current system doesn't look set to change any time soon.

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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago

Bristol

Because health tourism does not exist.

So vote for someone on the pretext that they will solve or prevent a none existent problem is the very definition of stupidity.

2 weeks later I had a bill from the local health authority for nearly £10,000 for non-resident treatment. They had given my address.

So I'm sorry to have to inform you, but health tourism most certainly DOES exist. Anybody who thinks it doesn't us clearly stupidity personified.

What you fail to understand is that at the levels that it does exist, which as a percentage of our national health budget is what could charitably be described as minuscule at best, it can be considered to not exist. Your anecdote is an irrelevance.

So anyone who deems it a problem that needs even the slightest effort to try and prevent is a fool. Someone who votes for someone on the basis of trying to prevent it is worse than a fool. They are simply stupid.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

HIV was used as an example but really all treatment to non British people who do not pay tax or national insurance back into the country should be chargeable after all when we visit other countries we have to pay and rightly so

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By *anchestercubMan
over a year ago

manchester & NI

"HIV was used as an example but really all treatment to non British people who do not pay tax or national insurance back into the country should be chargeable after all when we visit other countries we have to pay and rightly so "

That's why I think it was a wrong example to use.

It's a chronic condition like arthritis or diabetes. You'd need to be living here (therefore resident here) to get the treatment. People don't fly in to get one course of treatment.

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By *ubsterMan
over a year ago

truro

At what point of instability does a country need to get to when it can not sustain our own population that we need to take the harsh decision to close our boarders... with austerity measures tightening the fabric of our take for granted services... im worried that maybe i will be victim of the unvoiced individuals lying on a hospital bed in some corridor... forgotten because the peoples money is not funding direct to where it is needed... it would be nice to allow anybody in but at the expense of people already living here..

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

Edwalu2, when you start throwing insults at people it just proves you have lost the argument.

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