FabSwingers.com forum: Trumped up charges

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Today's d day for me at work, got to go and face the music.

Charges:

Lateness- people have said I did it but they have no evidence other than hearsay.

Sexually inappropriate comments: only comment made is was to someone who did not take it as sexual and has said so.

And the big one d*unk at work: I was out the night before a few times but I work in an office and I wasn't incapable.

What's your opinions, do I deserve the boot?

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By *inaTitzTV/TS
over a year ago

Titz Towers, North Notts

It's hard to come to any conclusion from just one side of the story.

Either way, best of luck.

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By *adybee77Woman
over a year ago

MAMOBA, miles and miles of bugger all (Aberdeenshire)

Sorry but yes.

Why should your colleagues cover for your lateness - I notice you say it is hearsay, not that you are actually punctual.

The sexual comments - why would you do that at work? And it doesn't need to be the person it was directed at - if someone else heard it and felt uncomfortable, then that is enough to raise the issue as well.

And d*unk at work - why on earth would you turn up d*unk? Its not like working the next day is a surprise... so unless you cannot control your urge to drink, there is no reason for it. D*unk at work is automatic dismissal on many contracts now. Just not something I would ever contemplate... mind you I have to drive for work, so I don't really drink at all any more.

Good luck OP, but be prepared for the worst.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Hangings to good for you

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

the first two sound ok the last one a bit vague -

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

you do seem to have a bit of care less attitude though which isnt the best

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It sounds like even you aren't too convinced by your own case. Prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

"Today's d day for me at work, got to go and face the music.

Charges:

Lateness- people have said I did it but they have no evidence other than hearsay.

Sexually inappropriate comments: only comment made is was to someone who did not take it as sexual and has said so.

And the big one d*unk at work: I was out the night before a few times but I work in an office and I wasn't incapable.

What's your opinions, do I deserve the boot? "

yes but what are the trumped up charges?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's noticeable that you don't deny the lateness or being d*unk at work. Abd you give the impression that you consider neither to be a a biig deal.

If you are turning up late and still d*unk mayve you should get help for your drink problem? Certainly that's the impression I get

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

My timekeeping is not always perfect but I've never been brought to task on it before.

The sexual comment is not a sexual comment. The person I said it to was well aware of that as we're a few others. Some other people have taken umbrage at it but the intent was not there.

I was out the night before, however I do not believe I was d*unk. I appreciate in some industries that would be a health an safety issue but I don't drive or operate machinery.

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By *ouplekinkCouple
over a year ago

kink town

Lateness - evidence or not were you actually late?

Inappropriate comments can be offensive to anyone not just those you aimed them at.

D*unk at work - maybe you thought you were capable, but turning up hungover and smelling of stale booze, is unprofessional.

Again there will be two sides to this but you asked for opinions.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

"My timekeeping is not always perfect but I've never been brought to task on it before.

The sexual comment is not a sexual comment. The person I said it to was well aware of that as we're a few others. Some other people have taken umbrage at it but the intent was not there.

I was out the night before, however I do not believe I was d*unk. I appreciate in some industries that would be a health an safety issue but I don't drive or operate machinery. "

Already this is different to your original post.

If this is a disciplinary hearing you need to have your facts straight and stick to them because if its official there will be witness statements.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 24/03/15 09:48:37]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"My timekeeping is not always perfect but I've never been brought to task on it before.

The sexual comment is not a sexual comment. The person I said it to was well aware of that as we're a few others. Some other people have taken umbrage at it but the intent was not there.

I was out the night before, however I do not believe I was d*unk. I appreciate in some industries that would be a health an safety issue but I don't drive or operate machinery. "

So in short, by your own admission:

Lateness, guilty

Sexual comment, guilty

D*unk at work, you aren't sure.

Doesn't sound good does it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As a line manager I am constantly dealing with younger soldiers coming in to work like this,

Turning up late for parades/work, they get personal time taken from them and have to parade at the guardroom on the hour every hour in the evening. You are lucky as you cant have personal time taken from you.

D*unk at work, A person doesn't have to be actually d*unk or hungover, if I have any soldier come into work stinking of booze then he is sent to sleep it off (cant make them run or give physical punishment, health & safety) then I charge them. As we work with heavy machinery as a team I am not going to put others lives at risk because he may not be d*unk. he deserves the charge/fine. The same goes for any clerk/nurse/signaller/infanteer. Turning up to work smelling of alcohol is just unprofessional.

Sexual comment, I am not going to even get started with this as it is totally inappropriate at work , professionalism should always come first. doesn't matter if it was intended as light hearted comment or not.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You say you have never been reprimanded for lateness before. If that's the case they can't really take you to task on it as an ongoing problem that is part of their three pronged attack on you.

The sexual comment, you say you have witnesses that say it wasn't meant as such. Make sure they back you up.

Coming to work smelling of stale beer is NOT a sackable offence. Being d*unk is, and they never reprimanded you at the time.

Sounds to me like they are looking for reasons to get rid of you. You can't save up someone's supposed misdemenours then hit them with it all at once. If you were not warned when the incidents took place, then they did not happen.

Informal verbal warnings, formal verbal warnings and then written warnings. Have you received any of these in the past, regarding these matters?

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By *icky999Man
over a year ago

warrington

I hope its mc donalds h.r dept and not the british medical association

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"My timekeeping is not always perfect but I've never been brought to task on it before.

The sexual comment is not a sexual comment. The person I said it to was well aware of that as we're a few others. Some other people have taken umbrage at it but the intent was not there.

I was out the night before, however I do not believe I was d*unk. I appreciate in some industries that would be a health an safety issue but I don't drive or operate machinery.

So in short, by your own admission:

Lateness, guilty

Sexual comment, guilty

D*unk at work, you aren't sure.

Doesn't sound good does it."

this..

bit of a lax attitude added in as well perhaps..

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By (user no longer on site)
Forum Mod
over a year ago

"I hope its mc donalds h.r dept and not the british medical association

I laughed

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By *atzeWoman
over a year ago

Greenhill

Very generally

Lateness: has to be proved its only you. Equal treatment for everyone

Sexually inappropriate: it is enough for someone to overhear and feel offended

Exact time and dates, , warnings, disciplinaries?

That difficult generally

Get a solicitor or go to the CAB x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

i used to work for the jobcentre n have heard this kind of thing many times

You will no doubt have been issued a contract of employment (required by law) that will clearly state both what is expected of you as an employee n all disciplinary actions and how they are to be employed IE: verbal written final warnings this is required by all company's and failure to follow its own contacted actions will and would be taken into account by an employment tribunal if it got that far if you were sacked

I suggest you take a witness in with you and ask for a copy of your employment terms to be available during your meeting

Dependent on the outcome of today the CAB and ACAS the arbitration service will be able to further advies you hun hope this helps

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Today's d day for me at work, got to go and face the music.

Charges:

Lateness- people have said I did it but they have no evidence other than hearsay.

Sexually inappropriate comments: only comment made is was to someone who did not take it as sexual and has said so.

And the big one d*unk at work: I was out the night before a few times but I work in an office and I wasn't incapable.

What's your opinions, do I deserve the boot? "

If you've got cctv in the building you may find lateness is more than hearsay

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Well if your late often and going in work d*unk then tuff no option but to send you down the road anyone who turns up pissed for work should be sacked

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

God if everyone got fired for lateness and night before d*unkeness there wouldn't be many people left.

Of course I cant really say shit. I don't make the best employee.

What can I say I don't like being told what to do

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By *ere-for-my-convenienceWoman
over a year ago

Tenbury Wells

Hope it sorts itself out in your favour

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Today's d day for me at work, got to go and face the music.

Charges:

Lateness- people have said I did it but they have no evidence other than hearsay.

Sexually inappropriate comments: only comment made is was to someone who did not take it as sexual and has said so.

And the big one d*unk at work: I was out the night before a few times but I work in an office and I wasn't incapable.

What's your opinions, do I deserve the boot?

If you've got cctv in the building you may find lateness is more than hearsay"

But if he has never been pulled on it, they can't really use it as a stick to beat him with.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If you've got cctv in the building you may find lateness is more than hearsay"

I'm sure there's a law forbidding the use of viewing CCTV for things like peoples time keeping.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If any of my engineers were consistently late without excuse that would trigger disciplinary proceedings against them.

If they arrived d*unk, that is gross missconduct and I would suspend them immediately pending investigation and could lead to dismissal.

The worst is the inappropriate behaviour at work, which although you say wasn't meant to be taken that way, but clearly was by someone who felt strongly enough to make a complaint against you again is gross misconduct.

On those grounds, I'd let you go.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Seems to be a lot of angels on here, must all be employees of the year.

Regards the d*unk at work, unless they breathalised you, then it wont stand up if you take it to a tribuneral.

smelling of alcohol might be against company policy, and may be covered by a generalisation in their employee conditions, but even if you were falling over d*unk, if they don't breathelise you, then they can't cite you on it.

Most places now are aware of this and have cheap digital breathelisers, (which must be agreed to be taken and done with independant witnesses to collaberate the result)

If you have been there less than two years or are on a trial period, then you're fucked. If you've been there longer then you should be fine.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"My timekeeping is not always perfect but I've never been brought to task on it before.

The sexual comment is not a sexual comment. The person I said it to was well aware of that as we're a few others. Some other people have taken umbrage at it but the intent was not there.

I was out the night before, however I do not believe I was d*unk. I appreciate in some industries that would be a health an safety issue but I don't drive or operate machinery. "
in todays world comments we make at work of a inappropriate nature be it sexual race disability you get the idea can be reported bye anybody who heard it we all have to watch how we act and what we say in public places and at work and surely you must relise that?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Seems to be a lot of angels on here, must all be employees of the year.

Regards the d*unk at work, unless they breathalised you, then it wont stand up if you take it to a tribuneral.

Most places now are aware of this and have cheap digital breathelisers, (which must be agreed to be taken and done with independant witnesses to collaberate the result)

If you have been there less than two years or are on a trial period, then you're fucked. If you've been there longer then you should be fine.

Regards sexually inappropriate comments, if it is a first offence for this, then the company should take it as such and send you on a diversity course to teach you the errors of your ways. They can't hang you without giving you a chance to improve yourself."
yes it would stand up be very carefull of the advice we give if you went to tribunal all a imployer would need to prove is they had good reason to dismiss and even if you went to tribunal they cannot force your emplyer to give you your job back.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What if the employee signed to say they agreed to the terms of the company's equality and diversity policy when they signed their contract of employment ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Needs to be a case built up against you, and they must have folled set diciplinary proceedures, piling it all in together, at once, with no previous virtually guarantees that a tribuneral would rule in your favour.

They need to give you warnings, and a chance to change.

Hence verbal warning,written warning, final warning.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What if the employee signed to say they agreed to the terms of the company's equality and diversity policy when they signed their contract of employment ? "
also depending on the nature of the comments the employer could still deem this as gross misconduct and grounds for dismissall ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Needs to be a case built up against you, and they must have folled set diciplinary proceedures, piling it all in together, at once, with no previous virtually guarantees that a tribuneral would rule in your favour.

They need to give you warnings, and a chance to change.

Hence verbal warning,written warning, final warning."
thats right but the polkey ruling states a employer who has not followed its own procedures if the out come would be the same then the ruling stands

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As your a couple is it the m or f in trouble?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

what if the employee signed to say they agreed to the terms of the company's equality and diversity policy when they signed their contract of employment ? "

If they did, and are in breech of contract, then they still need to be given a chance to change.

See above -

Verbal, written, then final warning.

These are pretty much the standard if you want to sack someone, unless through gross misconduct.

If they didn't follow them, or prove that the conduct was a sudden and grossly inappropriate, then they are leaving themselves open to tribuneral.

If he has previous and has had warnings before which have stacked up, then he's fucked.

P.s. Am i spelling tribuneral correctly ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Hangings to good for you"

Agreed!

Staked down in a field over some slow growing bamboo should be suffice!

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

what if the employee signed to say they agreed to the terms of the company's equality and diversity policy when they signed their contract of employment ?

If they did, and are in breech of contract, then they still need to be given a chance to change.

See above -

Verbal, written, then final warning.

These are pretty much the standard if you want to sack someone, unless through gross misconduct.

If they didn't follow them, or prove that the conduct was a sudden and grossly inappropriate, then they are leaving themselves open to tribuneral.

If he has previous and has had warnings before which have stacked up, then he's fucked.

P.s. Am i spelling tribuneral correctly ?"

It's tribunal

We have half the story here let's hope that both sides are presented accurately at the meeting.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It isn't quite as straightforward to sack someone as people are thinking.

Obviously if it goes to a tribuneral, then you are already pretty fecked, but they can actually force a company, even the big ones with fancy lawyers to take an employee back.

I can't really say much more without giving some personal reason/occupational choices, why i know (i've never been sacked) knowing your rights is important.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

P.s. Am i spelling tribuneral correctly ?

It's tribunal

We have half the story here let's hope that both sides are presented accurately at the meeting.

I'm just assuming he was innocent as the majority of the initial comments were just assuming he was guilty, so i was doing it for balance.

Personally i would have sacked him, because he sounds guilty as hell to me.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"As your a couple is it the m or f in trouble?"

What difference does that make?

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

"As a line manager I am constantly dealing with younger soldiers coming in to work like this,

A line manager, whats that?

By the sound of it your an NCO who likes writing 252's.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If you've got cctv in the building you may find lateness is more than hearsay

I'm sure there's a law forbidding the use of viewing CCTV for things like peoples time keeping."

They used the cctv from our security gates to sack a guy for leaving early.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

A big difference, if your trying to guess the sexual comment that they made.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"God if everyone got fired for lateness and night before d*unkeness there wouldn't be many people left.

Of course I cant really say shit. I don't make the best employee.

What can I say I don't like being told what to do

Please don't ever work in any safety conscious industry....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

well 7 hours since he been on so looking like hes still at work and being good lad not fabbing at the desk

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Sorry don't mean to sound harsh but if you had worked for us you would be gone

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"God if everyone got fired for lateness and night before d*unkeness there wouldn't be many people left.

Of course I cant really say shit. I don't make the best employee.

What can I say I don't like being told what to do

Please don't ever work in any safety conscious industry...."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Sorry don't mean to sound harsh but if you had worked for us you would be gone "

couldnt do my job on those terms either

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By *inaTitzTV/TS
over a year ago

Titz Towers, North Notts

Do we have the results yet?

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By *allipygousMan
over a year ago

Leicester

In his own words the OP admitted he is a repeat offender of two of the things he is accused of and makes an excuse for the third.

But, instead of telling him to take responsibility for his own actions and to own any subsequent consequences, he is being advised by some as to his 'rights' and how to best get away it.

And that, in my opinion, is partly what is wrong with our society. Few accept anything is their own fault.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"In his own words the OP admitted he is a repeat offender of two of the things he is accused of and makes an excuse for the third.

But, instead of telling him to take responsibility for his own actions and to own any subsequent consequences, he is being advised by some as to his 'rights' and how to best get away it.

And that, in my opinion, is partly what is wrong with our society. Few accept anything is their own fault."

I'm not sure that's what has been said at all.

To prevent abuse, there are systems in place....

I'm not privy to the particulars of this case... Nonetheless, in situations like the one described, in the interest of fairness, all involved, including the employer, need to follow procedure. Were they to do this, lazy employees who flaunt the rules of conduct wouldn't have a leg to stand on....whether or not they were d*unk at the time.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I totally agree the OP does not make themselves look good in their post and should take responsibility for his/her actions but that doesnt mean the advice some have given wasnt needed

Yes in my opinion i would seriously take the OP to task and mabe even sack them if i was their employer but it must be done within the law and in line with his contact of employment

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"God if everyone got fired for lateness and night before d*unkeness there wouldn't be many people left.

Of course I cant really say shit. I don't make the best employee.

What can I say I don't like being told what to do

Please don't ever work in any safety conscious industry...."

I promise I will try not to.

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By *adybee77Woman
over a year ago

MAMOBA, miles and miles of bugger all (Aberdeenshire)

Did the OP ever update on the situation?

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By *icky999Man
over a year ago

warrington

Still signing on. Be back soon

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