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"To say that employment discrimination laws need repealing as they were enacted 50 years ago and we no longer live in a racist society?" No. As usual. | |||
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""We're not racist so we don't need laws saying we're not allowed to be" Not sure I quite understand that logic. Mr ddc"  | |||
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"Sure he was misquoted. " The quote is accurate and was made some months ago and he is on all the news channels claiming its been misinterpreted. | |||
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"I am sure that there are some parts of our discrimination laws that need discarding or changing. However the risk is we throw the baby out with the bath water. Fact is, the problem with new brooms like the Greens and UKIP is that when they clean house they remove much that is beneficial and needed. We don't miss those parts until they are gone and by then they are lost for ever." Not really. If by some chance of utter madness UKIP get into power I think the social and economic madness that would ensure would have them binned after their first term. So not forever but for five years max. | |||
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"Sure he was misquoted. " Just to be clear, mine wasn't a direct quote, I was just paraphrasing what he is saying. It's in a documentary to be screened next week. | |||
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"I really hope UKIP never get into power if they do I'm on the next plane to Denmark... "The Danes have their own nut job nationalists! Morten Messerschmitt is there nutty Nige! http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/25/danish-peoples-party-triumphant-in-european-elections | |||
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"I really hope UKIP never get into power if they do I'm on the next plane to Denmark... The Danes have their own nut job nationalists! Morten Messerschmitt is there nutty Nige!
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/25/danish-peoples-party-triumphant-in-european-elections"*their | |||
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"Sure he was misquoted. The quote is accurate and was made some months ago and he is on all the news channels claiming its been misinterpreted. " He's always misquoted. Or retracts what he said. He is totally inept as a politician. | |||
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"I am sure that there are some parts of our discrimination laws that need discarding or changing. However the risk is we throw the baby out with the bath water. Fact is, the problem with new brooms like the Greens and UKIP is that when they clean house they remove much that is beneficial and needed. We don't miss those parts until they are gone and by then they are lost for ever.Not really. If by some chance of utter madness UKIP get into power I think the social and economic madness that would ensure would have them binned after their first term. So not forever but for five years max." So you believe that if either the Greens or UKIP get into power that after 5 years of their government we will be able to kick them out and press a rest button and put everything back to todays settings? Example... Greens get into power... They will scrap our nuclear deterrent and nuclear power... You think in 5 years time we will be able to say "oh dear, that was a mistake, lets put Trident back together and reopen the power stations that are being demolished? As I said sometimes you dont appreciate what you have and once its gone it cant be replaced! For balance, UKIP would take us out of the EU, do you really think in 5 years time the rest of the EU will say "Oh you made a mistake, come back in and have all your old exemptions back." If you think that you are deluded.  | |||
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"To say that employment discrimination laws need repealing as they were enacted 50 years ago and we no longer live in a racist society?" Usual humdrum media boiling pot. People unlikely to be really bothered about the guts of the matter - just being fed out of context or badly paraphrased quotes. sells newspapers and advertising space on tv and online. On a seperate matter - might it be possible, please, for the OP to change the C to a K in your forum name, as in its current format, it is mildly agrivating my OCD. cheers | |||
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"I am sure that there are some parts of our discrimination laws that need discarding or changing. However the risk is we throw the baby out with the bath water. Fact is, the problem with new brooms like the Greens and UKIP is that when they clean house they remove much that is beneficial and needed. We don't miss those parts until they are gone and by then they are lost for ever.Not really. If by some chance of utter madness UKIP get into power I think the social and economic madness that would ensure would have them binned after their first term. So not forever but for five years max. So you believe that if either the Greens or UKIP get into power that after 5 years of their government we will be able to kick them out and press a rest button and put everything back to todays settings? Example... Greens get into power... They will scrap our nuclear deterrent and nuclear power... You think in 5 years time we will be able to say "oh dear, that was a mistake, lets put Trident back together and reopen the power stations that are being demolished? As I said sometimes you dont appreciate what you have and once its gone it cant be replaced! For balance, UKIP would take us out of the EU, do you really think in 5 years time the rest of the EU will say "Oh you made a mistake, come back in and have all your old exemptions back." If you think that you are deluded. "Was I referring to the EU or the Nuclear deterrent? The OP was on discrimination laws that can easily be re-enacted? Are you mistaken? | |||
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"To say that employment discrimination laws need repealing as they were enacted 50 years ago and we no longer live in a racist society? Usual humdrum media boiling pot. People unlikely to be really bothered about the guts of the matter - just being fed out of context or badly paraphrased quotes. sells newspapers and advertising space on tv and online. On a seperate matter - might it be possible, please, for the OP to change the C to a K in your forum name, as in its current format, it is mildly agrivating my OCD. cheers"If its only mildly aggravating your OCD I will leave it. Is that KO with you? | |||
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"I really hope UKIP never get into power if they do I'm on the next plane to Denmark... ". I hope you mean you'll be forced out and not going willingly?. If something's worth fighting for you have to fight for it! | |||
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" If its only mildly aggravating your OCD I will leave it. Is that KO with you?" Grrrrrrrrrr!! | |||
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"Sure he was misquoted. " He was very Mis-quoted but we all know the establishment and their lackeys in the press fear their policies and the large support they hold. They know that haemmoraging votes to UKIP may open the door to their opposition. They also know the Great British public are gullible and easily led and the Lib/Lab/Con are in no way shy of lying outright and using fear in order to further deceive the British people. | |||
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"I don't like discrimination. Positive or negative" There is no such thing as 'positive discrimination'. ALL discrimination is negative! | |||
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"Was I referring to the EU or the Nuclear deterrent? The OP was on discrimination laws that can easily be re-enacted? Are you mistaken? " My point is that although I am sure that a 50 year old law needs updating. We have to be careful of repealing laws because there may be hidden or unexpected consequences that contrary to your assertion can not be undone. My examples were probably clumsy in their obviousness but they make the point well. You or I or for that matter anyone else can't say oh we will just re-enact a piece of legislation in 5 years and things will go back to where they were. | |||
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"I am sure that there are some parts of our discrimination laws that need discarding or changing. However the risk is we throw the baby out with the bath water. Fact is, the problem with new brooms like the Greens and UKIP is that when they clean house they remove much that is beneficial and needed. We don't miss those parts until they are gone and by then they are lost for ever.Not really. If by some chance of utter madness UKIP get into power I think the social and economic madness that would ensure would have them binned after their first term. So not forever but for five years max. So you believe that if either the Greens or UKIP get into power that after 5 years of their government we will be able to kick them out and press a rest button and put everything back to todays settings? Example... Greens get into power... They will scrap our nuclear deterrent and nuclear power... You think in 5 years time we will be able to say "oh dear, that was a mistake, lets put Trident back together and reopen the power stations that are being demolished? As I said sometimes you dont appreciate what you have and once its gone it cant be replaced! For balance, UKIP would take us out of the EU, do you really think in 5 years time the rest of the EU will say "Oh you made a mistake, come back in and have all your old exemptions back." If you think that you are deluded. Was I referring to the EU or the Nuclear deterrent? The OP was on discrimination laws that can easily be re-enacted? Are you mistaken? "UKIP will take us OUT of the EU? Really? What do you know about UKIP policies that no one else does?? I think you will find that UKIP have guaranteed the British people a referendum on EU membership. Something that a great deal of the public want but none of the main parties are prepared to give. Quite happy to give Scotland a referendum but scared of giving US a say. UKIP will give you that referendum, if the vote is 'to stay' that is the choice of the British people, surely??? | |||
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"Sure he was misquoted. He was very Mis-quoted but we all know the establishment and their lackeys in the press fear their policies and the large support they hold. They know that haemmoraging votes to UKIP may open the door to their opposition. They also know the Great British public are gullible and easily led and the Lib/Lab/Con are in no way shy of lying outright and using fear in order to further deceive the British people. " The original post was very close to what he said, if the BBC website is to be believed. | |||
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"Well I'm voting UKIP." In a democratic right and although I totally disagree with your view point I would defend your right. | |||
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"Well I'm voting UKIP.In a democratic right and although I totally disagree with your view point I would defend your right." I haven't expressed a viewpoint, just an intention to vote for a particular party. | |||
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"50% rise in the number of young people from Black and Ethnic Minorities (BAME) who are unemployed. Says it all really! Postcode discrimination still exists too. There is lots and lots of evidence to suggest that race inequalities are actually getting worse and the countries biggest companies are becoming less and less culturally diverse. The man is an eejit! " Thanks, saved me typing that. | |||
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"Was I referring to the EU or the Nuclear deterrent? The OP was on discrimination laws that can easily be re-enacted? Are you mistaken? My point is that although I am sure that a 50 year old law needs updating. We have to be careful of repealing laws because there may be hidden or unexpected consequences that contrary to your assertion can not be undone. My examples were probably clumsy in their obviousness but they make the point well. You or I or for that matter anyone else can't say oh we will just re-enact a piece of legislation in 5 years and things will go back to where they were. " . You can't actually demolish a nuclear power station for a long time and even the decommissioning takes more than five years!. As for trident good riddance to bad rubbish that costs a bleeding fortune. I don't see Germany or Holland or Canada or Australia quaking in their boots at the thought of invasion without them! | |||
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"Was I referring to the EU or the Nuclear deterrent? The OP was on discrimination laws that can easily be re-enacted? Are you mistaken? My point is that although I am sure that a 50 year old law needs updating. We have to be careful of repealing laws because there may be hidden or unexpected consequences that contrary to your assertion can not be undone. My examples were probably clumsy in their obviousness but they make the point well. You or I or for that matter anyone else can't say oh we will just re-enact a piece of legislation in 5 years and things will go back to where they were. " In this parliament the Condems have repealed over 45 pieces of legislation relating to trade unions, road traffic regulations, taxation and pensions an benefits. Most pieces of legislation are supported by regulations that can easily be changed with the underlying legal intention remaining the same. If there is a will for moral changes for example the removal of the nuclear deterrent then that is brought about by the democratic will of the vox pop. Perhaps you are mistaken? | |||
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"Sure he was misquoted. He was very Mis-quoted but we all know the establishment and their lackeys in the press fear their policies and the large support they hold. They know that haemmoraging votes to UKIP may open the door to their opposition. They also know the Great British public are gullible and easily led and the Lib/Lab/Con are in no way shy of lying outright and using fear in order to further deceive the British people. " What did he actually say then? All i found so far is this. “I would argue that the law does need changing, and that if an employer wishes to choose, or you can use the word ‘discriminate’ if you want to, but wishes to choose to employ a British-born person, they should be allowed to do so,” he said. “I think you should be able to choose on the basis of nationality, yes. I do.” Asked specifically if Ukip would retain laws against discrimination on the grounds of race or colour, he replied: “No, because?…?we as a party are colour-blind.” “If we’d sat here 40 years ago, having this conversation, your point [on the need for laws preventing racial discrimination in the jobs market] would probably have been valid. I don’t think it is today,” he told Trevor Phillips, the interviewer. “I don’t think, if I talked to my children – I mean, I don’t actually, but if I did talk to my children about the question of race, they wouldn’t know what I was talking about.” He says discrimination won't happen on the basis of colour, fair enough, but accepts it will happen based on nationality is fine with this, and then goes on to say he doesn't want race laws either. So he's ok with discrimination basically. And most people can't come into this country from abroad without a job anyway, so there's no need to get rid of these laws anyway because the job market and laws already discriminate in a way. All he's trying to do is stop people most appropriate for a job coming into this country. He's a dick, ad one with loads of confused followers. That is all. | |||
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"I am sure that there are some parts of our discrimination laws that need discarding or changing. However the risk is we throw the baby out with the bath water. Fact is, the problem with new brooms like the Greens and UKIP is that when they clean house they remove much that is beneficial and needed. We don't miss those parts until they are gone and by then they are lost for ever.Not really. If by some chance of utter madness UKIP get into power I think the social and economic madness that would ensure would have them binned after their first term. So not forever but for five years max. So you believe that if either the Greens or UKIP get into power that after 5 years of their government we will be able to kick them out and press a rest button and put everything back to todays settings? Example... Greens get into power... They will scrap our nuclear deterrent and nuclear power... You think in 5 years time we will be able to say "oh dear, that was a mistake, lets put Trident back together and reopen the power stations that are being demolished? As I said sometimes you dont appreciate what you have and once its gone it cant be replaced! For balance, UKIP would take us out of the EU, do you really think in 5 years time the rest of the EU will say "Oh you made a mistake, come back in and have all your old exemptions back." If you think that you are deluded. Was I referring to the EU or the Nuclear deterrent? The OP was on discrimination laws that can easily be re-enacted? Are you mistaken?
UKIP will take us OUT of the EU? Really? What do you know about UKIP policies that no one else does??
I think you will find that UKIP have guaranteed the British people a referendum on EU membership. Something that a great deal of the public want but none of the main parties are prepared to give.
Quite happy to give Scotland a referendum but scared of giving US a say.
UKIP will give you that referendum, if the vote is 'to stay' that is the choice of the British people, surely???"Erm, I thought their last stated position (I appreciate it changes every week) was that they don't need a referendum as the vote for them is to leave the EU. If any other party wins they want a guaranteed in/out referendum pledge from those parties. | |||
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"Well I'm voting UKIP.In a democratic right and although I totally disagree with your view point I would defend your right. I haven't expressed a viewpoint, just an intention to vote for a particular party." So you are voting for a political party without considering their views on issues such as the economy, the NHS and EU? What are you voting for in that case? | |||
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"Well I'm voting UKIP.In a democratic right and although I totally disagree with your view point I would defend your right. I haven't expressed a viewpoint, just an intention to vote for a particular party.So you are voting for a political party without considering their views on issues such as the economy, the NHS and EU? What are you voting for in that case?" Who says I haven't taken those things into account? You don't know anything about me. But for your information, they're the only major party who have campaigned for an English parliament, so that is a big plus for me. | |||
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"I am sure that there are some parts of our discrimination laws that need discarding or changing. However the risk is we throw the baby out with the bath water. Fact is, the problem with new brooms like the Greens and UKIP is that when they clean house they remove much that is beneficial and needed. We don't miss those parts until they are gone and by then they are lost for ever.Not really. If by some chance of utter madness UKIP get into power I think the social and economic madness that would ensure would have them binned after their first term. So not forever but for five years max. So you believe that if either the Greens or UKIP get into power that after 5 years of their government we will be able to kick them out and press a rest button and put everything back to todays settings? Example... Greens get into power... They will scrap our nuclear deterrent and nuclear power... You think in 5 years time we will be able to say "oh dear, that was a mistake, lets put Trident back together and reopen the power stations that are being demolished? As I said sometimes you dont appreciate what you have and once its gone it cant be replaced! For balance, UKIP would take us out of the EU, do you really think in 5 years time the rest of the EU will say "Oh you made a mistake, come back in and have all your old exemptions back." If you think that you are deluded. Was I referring to the EU or the Nuclear deterrent? The OP was on discrimination laws that can easily be re-enacted? Are you mistaken?
UKIP will take us OUT of the EU? Really? What do you know about UKIP policies that no one else does??
I think you will find that UKIP have guaranteed the British people a referendum on EU membership. Something that a great deal of the public want but none of the main parties are prepared to give.
Quite happy to give Scotland a referendum but scared of giving US a say.
UKIP will give you that referendum, if the vote is 'to stay' that is the choice of the British people, surely???"Utter rubbish. The UKIP policy is to not to have a referendum on leaving the EU it is to leave it; no referendum, no re negotiation, no discussion, just leave. Plain and simple. The only party actually offering a referendum on whether we should stay in the EU or leave is the Conservative party. A policy I personally don't agree with by the way. | |||
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"Well I'm voting UKIP.In a democratic right and although I totally disagree with your view point I would defend your right. I haven't expressed a viewpoint, just an intention to vote for a particular party.So you are voting for a political party without considering their views on issues such as the economy, the NHS and EU? What are you voting for in that case? Who says I haven't taken those things into account? You don't know anything about me. But for your information, they're the only major party who have campaigned for an English parliament, so that is a big plus for me." No I don't know anything about you save that you are voting for a narrow minded and extreme political opinion who tend to attract those who align themselves with such views? | |||
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"Well I'm voting UKIP.In a democratic right and although I totally disagree with your view point I would defend your right. I haven't expressed a viewpoint, just an intention to vote for a particular party.So you are voting for a political party without considering their views on issues such as the economy, the NHS and EU? What are you voting for in that case? Who says I haven't taken those things into account? You don't know anything about me. But for your information, they're the only major party who have campaigned for an English parliament, so that is a big plus for me.No I don't know anything about you save that you are voting for a narrow minded and extreme political opinion who tend to attract those who align themselves with such views?" Aye, if you say so. | |||
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"Well I'm voting UKIP.In a democratic right and although I totally disagree with your view point I would defend your right. I haven't expressed a viewpoint, just an intention to vote for a particular party.So you are voting for a political party without considering their views on issues such as the economy, the NHS and EU? What are you voting for in that case? Who says I haven't taken those things into account? You don't know anything about me. But for your information, they're the only major party who have campaigned for an English parliament, so that is a big plus for me.No I don't know anything about you save that you are voting for a narrow minded and extreme political opinion who tend to attract those who align themselves with such views? Aye, if you say so." I don't but your party of choice does! Go and read the attached link!! http://www.ukip.org/policies_for_people | |||
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"Well I'm voting UKIP. "Don't agree with me, Doreen. You'll get attacked by the scaremongerers. | |||
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"We live in grave economic times and peoples opinion turn to the right. For a lot of people in this country there is no hope, their future was mortgaged before they were born, if I was a young person now I'd be furious with my generation. I got a free university education, my first house was 2 times my salary when I bought it and my boss couldn't give me a zero hour contract." Actually 0 hours contracts have been around for ever and they are not always the terrible thing people who have never had them seem to think. They can be bad sometimes, as cam any contract, but they can also be just what both parties to the contract require and want. | |||
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"I really have never thought that calling UKIP supporters racist bigots actually moves the discussion forward. UKIP' main policy is that the UK should leave the EU. Whilst I can see that this policy would be supported by people who are racist or bigots I don't believe that supporting the UK leaving the EU is, of itself, necessarily racist; it was after all also official Labour policy throughout most of the late 70's and early 80's. I'm also not sure that playing the racist card every time anyone has tried to discuss immigration has helped in having a sensible and fair immigration policy either. For me it's the issues. Would the UK be better out of the EU. Do we still need race discrimination laws? Will stopping free movement of Labour within the EU increase overall employment or unemployment? On all those issues I find I disagree with UKIP's conclusions however I don't find the fact that they have raised them to be racist." . It's no surprise. These leaked and publicised sound bites and paraphrases are deliberately leaked for that exact reason, the more he's accused of racism the more support he gets!. The British have a very funny habit of supporting underdogs and the "picked on". The fact of the matter is nobody debates the eu in any sensible way because the age old method of attacking your opponent of ad hominem. Before people get all what's best for us, why don't they consider what's best for Poland or Latvia or the Czech republic. Is it good that they loose all their young hard workers and the tax revenue they bring into their country!. Why does everything always have to be about what's best for us, I thought unions were meant to be about unity not a simple way for the strong to manipulate the weak!. Your all racists in my eyes! | |||
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"I really have never thought that calling UKIP supporters racist bigots actually moves the discussion forward. UKIP' main policy is that the UK should leave the EU. Whilst I can see that this policy would be supported by people who are racist or bigots I don't believe that supporting the UK leaving the EU is, of itself, necessarily racist; it was after all also official Labour policy throughout most of the late 70's and early 80's. I'm also not sure that playing the racist card every time anyone has tried to discuss immigration has helped in having a sensible and fair immigration policy either. For me it's the issues. Would the UK be better out of the EU. Do we still need race discrimination laws? Will stopping free movement of Labour within the EU increase overall employment or unemployment? On all those issues I find I disagree with UKIP's conclusions however I don't find the fact that they have raised them to be racist.. It's no surprise. These leaked and publicised sound bites and paraphrases are deliberately leaked for that exact reason, the more he's accused of racism the more support he gets!. The British have a very funny habit of supporting underdogs and the "picked on". The fact of the matter is nobody debates the eu in any sensible way because the age old method of attacking your opponent of ad hominem. Before people get all what's best for us, why don't they consider what's best for Poland or Latvia or the Czech republic. Is it good that they loose all their young hard workers and the tax revenue they bring into their country!. Why does everything always have to be about what's best for us, I thought unions were meant to be about unity not a simple way for the strong to manipulate the weak!. Your all racists in my eyes!" | |||
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"Well I'm voting UKIP.
Don't agree with me, Doreen. You'll get attacked by the scaremongerers."And the thoughtful people. | |||
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"We need tougher employment law, not less or looser. Too much in favor of employers and not employees atm. All equality legislation needs to stay too. Leaving the EU means potentially worse individual protection and more discrimination, and garage is generally an opportunist and for the rich minority." . Nah I disagree, what we need is a sensible dictatorship, let's say we take an old couple who wear slippers and shop at the co-op, install them as total dictators with only one law, "stop acting like a tit" remove all the judges and red tape and let them rule over all decisions.... Failing that we just use the red button on the tv so decide all new laws | |||
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"We need tougher employment law, not less or looser. Too much in favor of employers and not employees atm. All equality legislation needs to stay too. Leaving the EU means potentially worse individual protection and more discrimination, and garage is generally an opportunist and for the rich minority." Agreed! People seem to think they'll be so much better off outside of the EU - but just watch the benefits of being their disappear. Imo, even if Britain (as a business) do better out of the EU, Britain as a people will probably be worse off! The Tory's have only one caliber of people in mind & Ukip are just far-right Tory's, - even worse!! | |||
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"We need tougher employment law, not less or looser. Too much in favor of employers and not employees atm. All equality legislation needs to stay too. Leaving the EU means potentially worse individual protection and more discrimination, and garage is generally an opportunist and for the rich minority." I'm rich and he's not doing anything for me. Which rich people is he doing it for? Can you point them out to me? | |||
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"We need tougher employment law, not less or looser. Too much in favor of employers and not employees atm. All equality legislation needs to stay too. Leaving the EU means potentially worse individual protection and more discrimination, and garage is generally an opportunist and for the rich minority.. Nah I disagree, what we need is a sensible dictatorship, let's say we take an old couple who wear slippers and shop at the co-op, install them as total dictators with only one law, "stop acting like a tit" remove all the judges and red tape and let them rule over all decisions.... Failing that we just use the red button on the tv so decide all new laws "Red button? Stop that right now, you're starting to sound Democratic & will soon be in line for a polonium latté!! | |||
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"We need tougher employment law, not less or looser. Too much in favor of employers and not employees atm. All equality legislation needs to stay too. Leaving the EU means potentially worse individual protection and more discrimination, and garage is generally an opportunist and for the rich minority. I'm rich and he's not doing anything for me. Which rich people is he doing it for? Can you point them out to me?" . I'm not rich... But my wife is, and I'm determined to redistribute her wealth  | |||
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"We need tougher employment law, not less or looser. Too much in favor of employers and not employees atm. All equality legislation needs to stay too. Leaving the EU means potentially worse individual protection and more discrimination, and garage is generally an opportunist and for the rich minority. I'm rich and he's not doing anything for me. Which rich people is he doing it for? Can you point them out to me?. I'm not rich... But my wife is, and I'm determined to redistribute her wealth "Define rich? On a recent money programme the definition of comfortable for post 50 years was To be mortgage free Have savings (Liquid) of £40k or more. A pension pot of circa£400k. Is that an unrealistic expectation? | |||
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"We need tougher employment law, not less or looser. Too much in favor of employers and not employees atm. All equality legislation needs to stay too. Leaving the EU means potentially worse individual protection and more discrimination, and garage is generally an opportunist and for the rich minority. I'm rich and he's not doing anything for me. Which rich people is he doing it for? Can you point them out to me?. I'm not rich... But my wife is, and I'm determined to redistribute her wealth Define rich?
On a recent money programme the definition of comfortable for post 50 years was
To be mortgage free
Have savings (Liquid) of £40k or more.
A pension pot of circa£400k.
Is that an unrealistic expectation?". Six figure salary.I keep a nominal mortgage of 2000 , and yes we have savings but that's due to our green life style. | |||
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