FabSwingers.com forum: strikes

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

should they be allowed, or are they an out dated way of protest?

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By *-and-KCouple
over a year ago

Back of Beyond

It is a fundamental right of all workers to withdraw their labour.

Anything else means you move into the realms of slavery were you are forced to work.

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By *histler21Man
over a year ago

Ipswich

Being two-faced - it depends whether it inconveniences me greatly...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It is a fundamental right of all workers to withdraw their labour.

Anything else means you move into the realms of slavery were you are forced to work."

I agree, all out and down tools

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"It is a fundamental right of all workers to withdraw their labour."

isnt that called resigning?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Why do the TUC never go on strike?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

i think they should be aloud if they are justified, say to improve the working inviroment i.e health and safty or protect jobs that shouldn't be getting cut but not to get even more cash or bigger bonus.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Ask the question to coal miners, car workers, shipyard workers ...

Striking did them the world of good.

Whatever did happen to the car coal and ship industry ?

Oh yes - they were always going on strike, now we get our stuff from elswhere but it's all Maggies fault .

Hmmm

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

im on about the firemen and teachers who are getting ready for a strike

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

never understood the idea of striking, if some of my workers went on strike i would sack them and get people who wanted the job.

if you dont like the job then leave.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"im on about the firemen and teachers who are getting ready for a strike"

Sorry didn't notice that bit in your OP

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"im on about the firemen and teachers who are getting ready for a strike"

It seems to me that these days most teachers are so thick that they'll strike during half term.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

i didnt put it there, but your point is right it was the strike mentality that ruined british industry nothing else, wander what the unemployed think when they hear about strikes?

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By *ensualfire88Man
over a year ago

Edinburgh

Ah, the great British public.

Ready to go on strike to protest about the cuts they voted for.

Almost, but not quite as good the the Greeks who, on discovering that their country was effectively bust, reverted to type and rioted.

And in the morning, the country was still bust.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Ah, the great British public.

Ready to go on strike to protest about the cuts they voted for.

Almost, but not quite as good the the Greeks who, on discovering that their country was effectively bust, reverted to type and rioted.

And in the morning, the country was still bust.

It's way too cold to go out rioting in this country x

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By *histler21Man
over a year ago

Ipswich

Teachers, no matter how much they claim otherwise, are well paid. In my school, the average salary is a tad over 40k. When I became a school governor, the head was earning roughly the same as me. Now, their salary is almost double mine. Maybe they were underpaid before given the size of budget they 'manage' - but the amount of money shovelled into education has bolstered the salaries. I believe the salary is about right - but I think they should think hard before they ever decide to strike given the sorry state of the country's finances. We all have to share the pain for a while yet - one way or another.

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By *ensualfire88Man
over a year ago

Edinburgh

"Ah, the great British public.

Ready to go on strike to protest about the cuts they voted for.

Almost, but not quite as good the the Greeks who, on discovering that their country was effectively bust, reverted to type and rioted.

And in the morning, the country was still bust.

It's way too cold to go out rioting in this country x

That's the spirit!

We'd much rather have a bit of a grumble....but do it from the comfort of our own home.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Teachers, no matter how much they claim otherwise, are well paid. In my school, the average salary is a tad over 40k. When I became a school governor, the head was earning roughly the same as me. Now, their salary is almost double mine. Maybe they were underpaid before given the size of budget they 'manage' - but the amount of money shovelled into education has bolstered the salaries. I believe the salary is about right - but I think they should think hard before they ever decide to strike given the sorry state of the country's finances. We all have to share the pain for a while yet - one way or another."

I have no problem with that, except to say have the kids seen the same kind of improvement in their educational opportunities and aspirations?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Ah, the great British public.

Ready to go on strike to protest about the cuts they voted for.

Almost, but not quite as good the the Greeks who, on discovering that their country was effectively bust, reverted to type and rioted.

And in the morning, the country was still bust.

It's way too cold to go out rioting in this country x

That's the spirit!

We'd much rather have a bit of a grumble....but do it from the comfort of our own home."

Well, it is warmer here!

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By *ensualfire88Man
over a year ago

Edinburgh

"Ah, the great British public.

Ready to go on strike to protest about the cuts they voted for.

Almost, but not quite as good the the Greeks who, on discovering that their country was effectively bust, reverted to type and rioted.

And in the morning, the country was still bust.

It's way too cold to go out rioting in this country x

That's the spirit!

We'd much rather have a bit of a grumble....but do it from the comfort of our own home.

Well, it is warmer here!"

Make a Father Ted style placard "Down with this sort of thing", march round the coffee table and back to the couch, looking serious.

Then at least you can tell the kids you "did your bit" during the 2010 "Winter of Malcontent".

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By *aucy3Couple
over a year ago

glasgow

"Ask the question to coal miners, car workers, shipyard workers ...

Striking did them the world of good.

Whatever did happen to the car coal and ship industry ?

Oh yes - they were always going on strike, now we get our stuff from elswhere but it's all Maggies fault .

Hmmm

i think we went elsewhere,not because of strikes,but because the goods were cheaper.

in the 80s,poland could build a boat,cheaper than we could buy the material.although the strikes,made buying elsewhere easier to justify.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Ah, the great British public.

Ready to go on strike to protest about the cuts they voted for.

Almost, but not quite as good the the Greeks who, on discovering that their country was effectively bust, reverted to type and rioted.

And in the morning, the country was still bust.

It's way too cold to go out rioting in this country x

That's the spirit!

We'd much rather have a bit of a grumble....but do it from the comfort of our own home.

Well, it is warmer here!

Make a Father Ted style placard "Down with this sort of thing", march round the coffee table and back to the couch, looking serious.

Then at least you can tell the kids you "did your bit" during the 2010 "Winter of Malcontent".

brilliant

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

The London Fire Brigade are attempting to force the London Firefighters to sign new contracts which will see average wages of firemen drop around £145 a month.

On top of this the London Firefighters are being asked to allow the Brigade to plunder the pension fund to finance two new fire control centres, this is in affect a two year 'holiday' for the Brigade where they will not have to contribute towards the pension fund of their employees......

See anything fair in this?

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"The London Fire Brigade are attempting to force the London Firefighters to sign new contracts which will see average wages of firemen drop around £145 a month.

See anything fair in this?"

life isnt fair, get over it and it they dont like then move on, the private sector is struggling aswell, at least they still have jobs

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Being two-faced - it depends whether it inconveniences me greatly..."

as i work with a big infrastructure company and we was all supposed to go on strike in may/June this year thanks to the rmt.

I agreed with the points about the situation but what would a strike made nothing

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By *ensualfire88Man
over a year ago

Edinburgh

"Ah, the great British public.

Ready to go on strike to protest about the cuts they voted for.

Almost, but not quite as good the the Greeks who, on discovering that their country was effectively bust, reverted to type and rioted.

And in the morning, the country was still bust.

It's way too cold to go out rioting in this country x

That's the spirit!

We'd much rather have a bit of a grumble....but do it from the comfort of our own home.

Well, it is warmer here!

Make a Father Ted style placard "Down with this sort of thing", march round the coffee table and back to the couch, looking serious.

Then at least you can tell the kids you "did your bit" during the 2010 "Winter of Malcontent".

brilliant"

I thank you.

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

"The London Fire Brigade are attempting to force the London Firefighters to sign new contracts which will see average wages of firemen drop around £145 a month.

See anything fair in this?

life isnt fair, get over it and it they dont like then move on, the private sector is struggling aswell, at least they still have jobs"

So you are happy for employers to take advantage of a 'cut happy' government and start to force employees to sign new contracts at will?

Lets not forget that Firefighters are not exactly your average untrained 'cannon fodder' employees, millions of Londoners rely on the skill, training and dare I say bravery of these Firefighters every day of the week.

This 'If you don't like it get out' attitude is indicitive of the supporters of this new government, are we going to say about our servicemen and women when the axe is wielded on our armed forces over the coming months...will that be acceptable to Cameron fans?.....will you see that as a reasonable way to treat those that have been fighting for their country?

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"The London Fire Brigade are attempting to force the London Firefighters to sign new contracts which will see average wages of firemen drop around £145 a month.

See anything fair in this?

life isnt fair, get over it and it they dont like then move on, the private sector is struggling aswell, at least they still have jobs

So you are happy for employers to take advantage of a 'cut happy' government and start to force employees to sign new contracts at will?

untry?"

im sorry but its called a free market, if the pay is so bad that noone will do the job then the pay will rise, there is still a waiting list to join the firebrigade!

like it or not the contry is struggling, we all have to pay the price like it or not, the public sector is still paying more than the private for the same jobs, it cant continue for ever.

your argument is fair but flawed, how is a fireman more important to society than the plumber that makes your boiler safe?

everybodys job is important, the job wouldnt exist if it wasnt, but striking isnt the answer.

like i said before what would those looking for work think?

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By *ushroom7Man
over a year ago

Bradford

Anyone notice that the reported salary of the Chief Fire Officer of Merseyside was quoted as being £200,000 p.a. ( with a commensurate pension entitlement to boot )?

Then people wonder why the public coffers are, well not just skint, but hugely overdrawn.

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

Sorry but the term 'Free Market' applies to the Private Sector and not the Public Sector, there is not a Free Market because the London Fire Brigade is not a Private company and under current law in this country Fire Services are funded by local Councils and Authorities like the Greater London Assembly.

There is no current law that allows the Fire Service to be offered by way of tender to the Private Sector.

The London Firefighters are not striking for more pay, in fact negotiations for the next round of pay talks are not due to strat until Jan 2011, the Fire Brigades Union was invited to negotiations with the London Assembly (Boris *Toryboy* Johnson), these negotiations were not directly on pay but were an attempt by the London Assembly to force Firefighters (and soon members of the London Ambulance Service) to agree to new contracts of employment.

And if you have to ask the question as to why a Firefighter is more important to society than a plumber then it is obvious to me that you have little understanding as to the skill and training their job entails....it also shows a lack of respect in my opinion as regards our emergency services.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Sorry but the term 'Free Market' applies to the Private Sector and not the Public Sector, there is not a Free Market because the London Fire Brigade is not a Private company and under current law in this country Fire Services are funded by local Councils and Authorities like the Greater London Assembly.

There is no current law that allows the Fire Service to be offered by way of tender to the Private Sector.

i do as it happens know a couple of firemen and people from the other services so i understand they are brave men and women, but my origional post was about teachers but the same principle applies

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

Incidentally the Fire Brigades Union made an approach to the last government to ask the question as to why the Chief Fire Officer at county level earns Six times more on average than a Firefighter, it would seem that like Police Forces and Ambulance Services, the senior management earns a ridiculous amount of money compared to those at the sharp end.

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

"i do as it happens know a couple of firemen and people from the other services so i understand they are brave men and women, but my origional post was about teachers but the same principle applies"

Do your firefighter friends know that you see them as no more worthy than a plumber?, wonder what you would feel like if your boiler caught fire and like the average plumber the Fire Brigade told you they would try to make it some time this week to sort the problem out for you?

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By *ushroom7Man
over a year ago

Bradford

"Incidentally the Fire Brigades Union made an approach to the last government to ask the question as to why the Chief Fire Officer at county level earns Six times more on average than a Firefighter, it would seem that like Police Forces and Ambulance Services, the senior management earns a ridiculous amount of money compared to those at the sharp end. "

there is discussion mooted, by some within the coalition government no less, that there should be a multiple of earnings from top people to the bottom. 20:1 has been mentionned.

so for 40 hrs, minimum pay, that would produce a maximum of around £240-250,000,

Good idea in principle, though still far too much for the public sector.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Being two-faced - it depends whether it inconveniences me greatly..."

I like that "conditional" attitude lol...

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By *ensualfire88Man
over a year ago

Edinburgh

The whole debate about executive pay relative to workers pay needs to wake up and smell the coffee.

I don't come to this from any particular ideological viewpoint.

But it is totally spurious for people, and by people i principally mean politicians and the media, to go on about this.

The debate obfuscates serious issues around pay and reward. If you have as a starting point that X gets paid 20 times what a nurse does, you're wasting your time from the start.

Because the nurse, fireman, office worker, whoever is good at their job. They train hard and dedicate themselves to it, no question, no problem.

But the "employee" (less emotive than "nurse" - and emotive language is a large part of the problem) is capable of doing the job they have been trained for.

They are NOT capabale of running the organisation they work for. An organisation which may employ thousands of people. They have no knowledge or experience of that.

Nor does the "employee" have any skills or experience when it comes to multi-million pound business dealings - where the entire organisation could disappear overnight, losing everyone their job, if a wrong decision is made.

But the people who are at the top of these organisations DO have the requisite skills and experience. They do take multimillion pound decisions, every day.

And people are willing to pay them comensurately.

And it is unthinkable is 2010 that there will ever be any kind of earnings cap -we live in a free market economy on a free market planet people, protectionism aint gonna work.

So in short, is someone worth 20 times more than a nurse? The nurse who saved your relatives life?

Yes they are. Because without them there is no hospital for them to go to and be treated. And the equipment doesnt work when they get there. Because the place wasnt run properly.

The media went to town on the guy running BP during the spill (Hayward?).

"This man gets paid X, it's obscene, and the spill is his fault etc etc"

So if he'd been paid 30 grand instead of several hundred it would have been okay then?

No, they'd have still slaughtered him - "This man runs BP and only gets paid 30 grand - look a the oil spill, if we'd had a proper guy, one who earns loads, this wouldnt have happened..."

As with so many things, a more mature, reasoned debate is required.

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By *andcCouple
over a year ago

London and Cheshire

"i do as it happens know a couple of firemen and people from the other services so i understand they are brave men and women, but my origional post was about teachers but the same principle applies

Hope you never need a plumber.. lol

The plumber is busy plumbing the firefighter is waiting for the fire!

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

It does help that Chief Fire Officers will all have worked their way up through the ranks, unlike the Police Force or Anbulance Services Senior Fire Officers are not fast tracked graduates.

The Chief Fire Officer (Commissioner) of the London Fire Brigade started as a Trainee Fire Fighter and worked his way through the ranks.

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

"i do as it happens know a couple of firemen and people from the other services so i understand they are brave men and women, but my origional post was about teachers but the same principle applies

Hope you never need a plumber.. lol

The plumber is busy plumbing the firefighter is waiting for the fire!"

But the plumber (as far as I am aware) isn't going out on a call knowing it could possibly cost him his life, unless of course he slips in a shower tray and cracks his head on a bidet.

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By *andcCouple
over a year ago

London and Cheshire

"It does help that Chief Fire Officers will all have worked their way up through the ranks, unlike the Police Force or Ambulance Services Senior Fire Officers are not fast tracked graduates.

The Chief Fire Officer (Commissioner) of the London Fire Brigade started as a Trainee Fire Fighter and worked his way through the ranks.

GOOD so he deserves every penny he gets, remember cream always comes to the top!

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By *umourCouple
over a year ago

Rushden

"i do as it happens know a couple of firemen and people from the other services so i understand they are brave men and women, but my origional post was about teachers but the same principle applies

Hope you never need a plumber.. lol

The plumber is busy plumbing the firefighter is waiting for the fire!

But the plumber (as far as I am aware) isn't going out on a call knowing it could possibly cost him his life, unless of course he slips in a shower tray and cracks his head on a bidet."

Sorry Jane, Firemen choose their job and if they choose to be a firefighter, they take all that comes with the job!

The only reason most people harp on about how great Nurses and firefighters are is because they are scared of needing them and they would feel guilty about what they said... No one wants to feel like a hypocrite....

No ones job is any more worthy than any other job, or you are in danger of setting people up as Demigods! Making them "better" than anyone else and giving them special treatment is un needed and uncalled for.

Most people have to work for the whole shift, at night firemen don't! They sleep or watch TV until a "shout" comes in! "Because of their shift patterns, quite a few at our local station have part time jobs as well! That worries me because there is no control over hours and would you want a knackered fireman trying to rescue you?

As for strikes, in these times of hardship for ALL, the unions should be supporting not looking to wreck...

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By *andcCouple
over a year ago

London and Cheshire

"i do as it happens know a couple of firemen and people from the other services so i understand they are brave men and women, but my origional post was about teachers but the same principle applies

Hope you never need a plumber.. lol

The plumber is busy plumbing the firefighter is waiting for the fire!

But the plumber (as far as I am aware) isn't going out on a call knowing it could possibly cost him his life, unless of course he slips in a shower tray and cracks his head on a bidet."

It may be dangerous to be a firefighter, but people aren't paid for danger(or soldiers would be the highest paid)people are paid for their roles and responsibilities, that's why people at the top get paid more, they have a greater responsibility.

One of the main responsibilities of the fire service is not to put fires out but prevent them in the first place, through education(don't get pissed and cook chips), inspection of businesses and public buildings etc.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Think I really agree with this post - people choose their jobs, whether they become bomb disposal experts, nursery teachers or whatever - they choose the whole job, risks and benefits, warts and all.

To assume one job is more important than another is largely based on one's personal needs and the expectation/ fear of being in need one day.

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By *umourCouple
over a year ago

Rushden

Think I really agree with this post - people choose their jobs, whether they become bomb disposal experts, nursery teachers or whatever - they choose the whole job, risks and benefits, warts and all.

To assume one job is more important than another is largely based on one's personal needs and the expectation/ fear of being in need one day. "

Spot on! xx

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

"i do as it happens know a couple of firemen and people from the other services so i understand they are brave men and women, but my origional post was about teachers but the same principle applies

Hope you never need a plumber.. lol

The plumber is busy plumbing the firefighter is waiting for the fire!

But the plumber (as far as I am aware) isn't going out on a call knowing it could possibly cost him his life, unless of course he slips in a shower tray and cracks his head on a bidet.

Sorry Jane, Firemen choose their job and if they choose to be a firefighter, they take all that comes with the job!

As for strikes, in these times of hardship for ALL, the unions should be supporting not looking to wreck... "

London Firefighters are not striking over pay, they have only just recieved their 2010 pay award, I would say that ANY Public or Private sector worker had a right to take industrial action over plans to implement a new contract that would mean an average £145 a month reduction in their take home pay.

This new Tory government (and let's not kid ourselves that it really is a working coalition) has a new weapon of choice against the working class in this country, and it's the re-writing of contracts to current employees.

The same thing is happening in Spain at this very moment, with the Public Sector being asked to sign new contracts that see on average a 15% reduction in take home pay.....so are the public expected to accept this without so much as a whisper in protest?

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

I like it when people talk about and criticise others for thinking about going on strike....... it is not something that is taken lightley.....

okay... if we say just as an example that inflation has been running at 2.5% (the Govt target) my last 3 pay rises have been the following....

and 0%

I love my job, and i struggle to get by... I don't see anything else like food going down, or water/gas/electricty going down... or travel costs to work going down....

so in effect we have taken "pay cuts" for 3 years....

so now it has gotten to the stage of thinking of striking and it isn't a thing that I am taking lightly.... it is what it is.. A measure of last resort....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Ah, the great British public.

Ready to go on strike to protest about the cuts they voted for.

............... "

Nobody voted for cuts of the proposed magnitude and speed. They were in no party manifesto.

Cameron couldn't believe his luck when Clegg sold what little was left of his party's respect for a few extra quid a year and a posh car.

The Fib Dems will be lucky to emerge from Liverpool in one piece.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I like it when people talk about and criticise others for thinking about going on strike....... it is not something that is taken lightley.....

okay... if we say just as an example that inflation has been running at 2.5% (the Govt target) my last 3 pay rises have been the following....

and 0%

I love my job, and i struggle to get by... I don't see anything else like food going down, or water/gas/electricty going down... or travel costs to work going down....

so in effect we have taken "pay cuts" for 3 years....

so now it has gotten to the stage of thinking of striking and it isn't a thing that I am taking lightly.... it is what it is.. A measure of last resort...."

I can empathise with you on this point, in my last job (in a flourishing industry!!) we had 0 rise for 2 consecutive years and were told to be glad to have a job.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" .............

so now it has gotten to the stage of thinking of striking and it isn't a thing that I am taking lightly.... it is what it is.. A measure of last resort...."

Better a day on your feet than a lifetime on your knees.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Ask the question to coal miners, car workers, shipyard workers ...

Striking did them the world of good.

Whatever did happen to the car coal and ship industry ?

Oh yes - they were always going on strike, now we get our stuff from elswhere but it's all Maggies fault .

Hmmm

i think we went elsewhere,not because of strikes,but because the goods were cheaper.

in the 80s,poland could build a boat,cheaper than we could buy the material.although the strikes,made buying elsewhere easier to justify."

My point exactly

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

They should be allowed but you should have a moustache and flat cap to take part.

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

The dangerous thing about this present government and inflation figures is they don't have a very good history with recording them correctly.

Present inflation figures may seem reasonable until the drop in house prices is taken into consideration, take that out of the figures and inflation is more like 4.5%....and rising.

I think it is reasonable to ask workers to consider pay freezes over the next year or so, but on the assumption that inflation on things like food prices and energy prices is kept low.....and it won't be.

But asking people to re-write their present contracts in such a way that it will mean a real time reduction in their wages is a bit of a piss take when nothing has been done by this government or the EU to limit bonuses to city workers and company executives.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Many people who'd consider striking aren't doing so just to protect their jobs - important and all as that is. Many are doing it to protect the services they provide to the communities they serve.

Some folk think it's OK to get rid of a few teachers until it gets to the point where there aren't enough to keep class sizes to manageable levels or even keep schools open.

Others think it's OK to sack a few nurses until there aren't enough to make sure you get the operation you need.

Other don't mind losing a few police oficers - until they get burgled, or mugged or their child is murdered and there no manpower (personpower?) left to solve the crime.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Ah, the great British public.

Ready to go on strike to protest about the cuts they voted for.

Almost, but not quite as good the the Greeks who, on discovering that their country was effectively bust, reverted to type and rioted.

And in the morning, the country was still bust.

It's way too cold to go out rioting in this country x

There's been riots galore in this fair country of ours. Cannon Park in the 50's, Brixton in the early 80's, Meadowell in the 90's, even Oldham this century. And plenty more besides. Usually starts as a protest, then a load of the chors see it as a good excuse to kick off. And therefore usually it achieves sweet nowt.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Many people who'd consider striking aren't doing so just to protect their jobs - important and all as that is. Many are doing it to protect the services they provide to the communities they serve.

Some folk think it's OK to get rid of a few teachers until it gets to the point where there aren't enough to keep class sizes to manageable levels or even keep schools open.

Others think it's OK to sack a few nurses until there aren't enough to make sure you get the operation you need.

Other don't mind losing a few police oficers - until they get burgled, or mugged or their child is murdered and there no manpower (personpower?) left to solve the crime."

Exactly!!

The irony is the same public that complain about public sector workers soon complain when the services they require become affected.

I work for a trade union dealing in personal cases. In some areas of the country the Government is the major employer so employment is limited. Saying find another job is not that easy so the employer feels they can introduce new contracts. Sometimes you have to make a stand!

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

The 'I'm all right Jack's' amongst us will soon start to queue up to have a moan when these crippling cuts start to affect them.

I am lucky, I have a decent standard of living, I have a very comfortable lifestyle, but I am completely opposed to our emergency services being cut to the bone and hard working people having to re negotiate their contracts of employment.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Many people who'd consider striking aren't doing so just to protect their jobs - important and all as that is. Many are doing it to protect the services they provide to the communities they serve.

Some folk think it's OK to get rid of a few teachers until it gets to the point where there aren't enough to keep class sizes to manageable levels or even keep schools open.

Others think it's OK to sack a few nurses until there aren't enough to make sure you get the operation you need.

Other don't mind losing a few police oficers - until they get burgled, or mugged or their child is murdered and there no manpower (personpower?) left to solve the crime.

Exactly!!

The irony is the same public that complain about public sector workers soon complain when the services they require become affected.

At the risk of repeating myself

Better a day on your feet than a lifetime on your knees."

Unity is Strength.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The 'I'm all right Jack's' amongst us will soon start to queue up to have a moan when these crippling cuts start to affect them.

The battle-cry of 'we'll just go private' doesn't cut it when you need an ambulance, a fire engine or a couple of polis in the middle of the night.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So you are happy for employers to take advantage of a 'cut happy' government and start to force employees to sign new contracts at will?"

That's the thing about contracts - if you're not happy with them you don't sign them. Your choice. An employer has the right to change your contract of employment (as it says on the contract you initially signed and were happy with). They can't be held to ransom if they then decide to uphold that agreement that you WERE quite happy with just because you're no longer happy with what's on offer.

If you don't like the new contract, bugger off... or go to the expense of starting your own business and all the stress that entails.

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

For those that truly believe that no one job should be more important than others.....

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/5/20100918/tuk-murder-probe-after-toddler-dies-in-f-45dbed5.html

Kind of puts the 'plumber' argument into ridicule....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So you are happy for employers to take advantage of a 'cut happy' government and start to force employees to sign new contracts at will?

If you don't like the new contract, bugger off... or go to the expense of starting your own business and all the stress that entails."

Neither an employee nor an employer can change an employment contract without each other's agreement. Changes should normally be made after negotiation and agreement.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"For those that truly believe that no one job should be more important than others.....

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/5/20100918/tuk-murder-probe-after-toddler-dies-in-f-45dbed5.html

Kind of puts the 'plumber' argument into ridicule...."

I don't think that was the real issue - I rather believe that the value or temporary importance of any job depends on the acute situation, the specific needs of the "service user" and how vital they are at that moment in time. A police or fire officer (not picking on anybody, just one example) is no more important than the canteen cleaner unless you happen to need the police officer to protect you, then again if the canteen cleaner fails to do his/her job properly you could end up with serious food poisoning or infection. I now it sounds far fetched... and I am really saying this only to illustrate the point of contextualistion.

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By *umpkinMan
over a year ago

near the sounds of the wimborne quarter jack!

I`m in the lower end of the Public sector pay scale and I am a union member. We have already been told that one of the budgets for one section of work we do is going to be cut bt 50%, yes, half. Most of this work is currently done by subbies with specialist equipment, work the we recently were going to return inhouse until the implications of purchasing the equipment ourselves and employing suitable staff proved to be a non-starter. One of the companies involved pays their staff a much higher rate of pay than I`m on so taking them on wasn`t going to work either!

But would I strike to save my job and the service I provide? No! Not because I don`t want to, but I can`t afford to lose the money. Can`t do the sums just yetbut I`m on little more than £20k a year befor deductions and being a single guy, those deductions are huge. Thank goodness I haven`t got an ex-wife and children/CSA to keep! The nature of my job is such that the hours have to be staggered to get the maximum amount of work in during the longer days and there`s little, if any, chance of earning any overtime because of the unofficial "closed shop" that other sections working from the same depot that I work from operate.

It`s not all cream and honey for those of us in the Public Sector!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I've never worked in the public sector but I've had a lot of professional contact with public sector (and academic and NHS) procurement and there's no doubt there's a lot of unneccessary duplication of effort.

Does each local authority really need someone in charge of buying eg computer hardware? Are the needs of each authority so very different that the process has to be undertaken by each and every authority separately?

If all local authorities did away with their Director of Purchasing post that'd be 32 x a six-figure salary - per year and it'd only increase unemployemnt by 31 people (somebody would need to buy for everyone.

Add in university and college purchasing, blue light services, hospitals and so on and the savings mount up.

OK, there'd be some redundancy costs in the short term but over the years the savings would be huge.

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By *ensualfire88Man
over a year ago

Edinburgh

"I`m in the lower end of the Public sector pay scale and I am a union member. We have already been told that one of the budgets for one section of work we do is going to be cut bt 50%, yes, half. Most of this work is currently done by subbies with specialist equipment, work the we recently were going to return inhouse until the implications of purchasing the equipment ourselves and employing suitable staff proved to be a non-starter. One of the companies involved pays their staff a much higher rate of pay than I`m on so taking them on wasn`t going to work either!

It`s not all cream and honey for those of us in the Public Sector!"

I don't think it is all cream and honey working in the public sector.

Or anywhere else for that matter.

And as for strikes?

I've yet to see the strike that saved the jobs or saved the industry.

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By *ertngladCouple
over a year ago

thornton -cleveleys

[Removed by poster at 18/09/10 21:29:56]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If the TUC have it's way they'll drag millions out on strike and slam us straight back into recession - and it won't be for the 'noble' cause of protecting jobs. They've waited 13 years to bare their teeth again and anyone who buys into their bullshit wants to wake up and smell the shit they're being spoonfed.

It makes one wonder if they'd have endorsed mass walkouts if Labour had won the election because there can be no doubt at all that Labour would have been forced to implement swingeing cuts also.

TUC = fucking militant wankers.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"should they be allowed, or are they an out dated way of protest?"

Everyone should be allowed to withdraw their labour unless it's in your contract not to do so when you started employment. But if your not happy in a job then its better to leave than strike.

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

[Removed by poster at 19/09/10 02:18:15]

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

"If the TUC have it's way they'll drag millions out on strike and slam us straight back into recession - and it won't be for the 'noble' cause of protecting jobs. They've waited 13 years to bare their teeth again and anyone who buys into their bullshit wants to wake up and smell the shit they're being spoonfed.

It makes one wonder if they'd have endorsed mass walkouts if Labour had won the election because there can be no doubt at all that Labour would have been forced to implement swingeing cuts also.

TUC = fucking militant wankers.

Do you actually have any real understanding of what the TUC is Wishy?

They have no power to call strikes as legally they are not as an organisation permitted by law to hold ballots for strike action.....

The TUC is not in itself a Trade Union.

Incidentally those Tax Credits that your family enjoys Wishy....a result of the joint work between the TUC and the Labour Party.

You recently stated on here that your wife is a Civil Servant, the TUC could well be all that stands between your wife earning a government pension and finding it worthless by the time that Cameron finishes playing around with government contributions towards her pension.

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By *ushroom7Man
over a year ago

Bradford

Can you still get TUC biscuits. IIRC yellow packets. Scrummy.

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By *ushroom7Man
over a year ago

Bradford

All ten pins down with teh first ball of a frame. X

Best followed by two more XX to score big.

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By *aucy3Couple
over a year ago

glasgow

It makes one wonder if they'd have endorsed mass walkouts if Labour had won the election because there can be no doubt at all that Labour would have been forced to implement swingeing cuts also.

TUC = fucking militant wankers.

Do you actually have any real understanding of what the TUC is Wishy?

They have no power to call strikes as legally they are not as an organisation permitted by law to hold ballots for strike action.....

The TUC is not in itself a Trade Union.

Incidentally those Tax Credits that your family enjoys Wishy....a result of the joint work between the TUC and the Labour Party.

oh my god jane,i dont think i have ever loved you,as much as i love you tonight.xxx

love casper xx

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It makes one wonder if they'd have endorsed mass walkouts if Labour had won the election because there can be no doubt at all that Labour would have been forced to implement swingeing cuts also.

TUC = fucking militant wankers.

Do you actually have any real understanding of what the TUC is Wishy?

They have no power to call strikes as legally they are not as an organisation permitted by law to hold ballots for strike action.....

The TUC is not in itself a Trade Union.

Incidentally those Tax Credits that your family enjoys Wishy....a result of the joint work between the TUC and the Labour Party.

That's a very good point as the TUC is not a union itself but a council of the trade unions to give a single voice rather than the government or other bodies trying to deal with many individual voices. On the whole the TUC have helped the less financially rewarded in society to a large extent over the past 20 yrs or more.

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By *aucy3Couple
over a year ago

glasgow

in industry there must be a balance,between the employer,and the employee.unions are neccessary to give this balance.in the 80s,the unions were to strong.magret thatcher redressed this balance.everything she done,may not have been right,but we had a long term labour govt,who changed none of her union laws.unions are neccessary,but can never again be aloud,to hold the country to ransom.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"im on about the firemen and teachers who are getting ready for a strike"

Teachers aren't going to go on strike - you might get a few militant NUT tossers asking for a pay hike in the middle of the cuts (they asked for 10% in the middle of the banking crisis ffs) - but the majority of teaching staff in this country realise that, at the moment, they're in a very good position relative to the rest of the country. It's a case of keep your head down, so to speak

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If the TUC have it's way they'll drag millions out on strike and slam us straight back into recession - and it won't be for the 'noble' cause of protecting jobs. They've waited 13 years to bare their teeth again and anyone who buys into their bulls hit wants to wake up and smell the shit they're being spoonfed.

It makes one wonder if they'd have endorsed mass walkouts if Labour had won the election because there can be no doubt at all that Labour would have been forced to implement swingeing cuts also.

TUC = fucking militant wankers.

Do you actually have any real understanding of what the TUC is Wishy?

They have no power to call strikes as legally they are not as an organisation permitted by law to hold ballots for strike action.....

The TUC is not in itself a Trade Union.

Incidentally those Tax Credits that your family enjoys Wishy....a result of the joint work between the TUC and the Labour Party.

oh my god jane,i dont think i have ever loved you,as much as i love you tonight.xxx

love casper xx"

Sigh...she's awesome isn't she! Puts her point across with eloquence and without the need for profanity.

Back off Casper: I saw her first!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It makes one wonder if they'd have endorsed mass walkouts if Labour had won the election because there can be no doubt at all that Labour would have been forced to implement swingeing cuts also.

TUC = fucking militant wankers.

Do you actually have any real understanding of what the TUC is Wishy?

They have no power to call strikes as legally they are not as an organisation permitted by law to hold ballots for strike action.....

The TUC is not in itself a Trade Union.

Incidentally those Tax Credits that your family enjoys Wishy....a result of the joint work between the TUC and the Labour Party.

There's no need to sound so condescending Jane. You know full well that I am someone who does not post in ignorance. Of course I understand what the TUC is. But I'm wondering whether you do!

Only this week they four big unions VOTED for a campaign of mass industrial action. Sure, they have to put it to their members but in all honestly you could ask the 'membership' to accept that sheep are pigs and if their union rep tells them it is so, they'll agree to it.

As for tax credits, don't be so niave Jane. They were introduced by the last government to buy votes, pure and simple, and had naff all to do with the TU fookin C.

For 13 years we haven't heard a pipsqueak from the TUC as their beloved Labour party would have slapped them down - hard, but now their arch enemy is in power they've come out to prey. I despise unions with a vengeance and it's a pity Maggie didn't finish them off completely when she had the chance.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" .............

Maggie? Scotland will declare a public holiday for her funeral and it can't come soon enough.

She never really stood a chance of damaging the TUC and she's the one who was well and truly finished off BY HER OWN SIDE whilst the TUC carries on protecting working men and women.

Clegg will also be finished off by his own side when they realise he can't deliver AV (or any of their manifesto 'promises'). It'll be an interesting week in Liverpool.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" .............

Maggie? Scotland will declare a public holiday for her funeral and it can't come soon enough.

She never really stood a chance of damaging the TUC and she's the one who was well and truly finished off BY HER OWN SIDE whilst the TUC carries on protecting working men and women.

Clegg will also be finished off by his own side when they realise he can't deliver AV (or any of their manifesto 'promises'). It'll be an interesting week in Liverpool."

Clegg is showing his class as a real politician by taking on the LibDem old guard wgo want to remain in perpetual opposition throwing stones at whoever is in power. Clegg realies that to win support - and power - he needs to reform the party, much like Blair did in '95 when he rankled the ultra-left Labour stalwarts with his New Labour.

Clegg knows his market and he knows that his best support lies with young new voters and also with women. That's where support for the LibDems will emerge from and he'll drag the party by the heels, kicking and screaming if he has to, until they accept that the old way means political wilderness for another 60 years.

I said before the election that if they dropped certain policies they would have had my support. It remains to be seen what their policies will be once clegg cements his power as leader in Liverpool in the forthcoming weeks. I hope he does and I hope he tells them what policies they will be following - as a united party.

Blair did it will Labour, Cameron with the Tories. Clegg must do it also.

As for Scotland - well, they're anti-English almost to a man anyway and blame Thatcher for everything from the Big Bang to Armeggedon. It's interesting that our friends north of the border haven't said a goddam thing about their beloeved Labour totally fucking up this nation's finances though. But hey, the good old TUC will sort it out eh? Protect union membership jobs but bollocks to all those in private factories without union representation.... and Crow & The Cronies will continue to collect their £145k salaries (and pension contribs. that go with it) whilst their members face hardship and financial ruin by striking - and all because the union bosses want to flex their muscles. The jobs will go anyway, nobody is exempt from the coming cuts because Labour left this country completely skint.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Blair did it will Labour, Cameron with the Tories. Clegg must do it also.

Delusional nonsense. Keep kiddin' yersel'. Yer kiddin' naebody else.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Delusional nonsense. Keep kiddin' yersel'. Yer kiddin' naebody else."

From the "die hard, cast in the wool, grandad said Labour so I'm Labour too" typical scot.

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By *b430Man
over a year ago

Tayside

Delusional nonsense. Keep kiddin' yersel'. Yer kiddin' naebody else.

From the "die hard, cast in the wool, grandad said Labour so I'm Labour too" typical scot.

There is no such thing as a "typical scot" just like there is no such thing as a "typical englishman"!

As usual another political debate on here decends into "us against them"

No one actually realises whatever party is in power they will all blame the other for things that have gone wrong in the past and promise to put it right.

Sadly though it never seems to happen whether it is the LibCONs or Labour that say it.

And by the way, I support no Political Party but prefer to rely on my own judgement rather than listen to the waffle they all spout to get voted in to get power for themselves!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Delusional nonsense. Keep kiddin' yersel'. Yer kiddin' naebody else.

From the "die hard, cast in the wool, grandad said Labour so I'm Labour too" typical scot.

There is no such thing as a "typical scot" just like there is no such thing as a "typical englishman"!

And by the way, I support no Political Party but prefer to rely on my own judgement rather than listen to the waffle they all spout to get voted in to get power for themselves!

Seconded totally on both accounts - sweeping statements and generalisations by definition are inaccurate as are the assumptions ...

Well spoken

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Delusional nonsense. Keep kiddin' yersel'. Yer kiddin' naebody else.

From the "die hard, cast in the wool, grandad said Labour so I'm Labour too" typical scot.

I'm anything but a typical anything.

Neither of my grandfathers voted Labour. One died in Flanders so we'd be able to sit around in relative freedom and discuss these matters.

The other stood beside MacLean 'a bonny fechter' in George Square. Grampa was a Marxist all his days.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Delusional nonsense. Keep kiddin' yersel'. Yer kiddin' naebody else.

From the "die hard, cast in the wool, grandad said Labour so I'm Labour too" typical scot.

There is no such thing as a "typical scot" just like there is no such thing as a "typical englishman"!

As usual another political debate on here decends into "us against them"

No one actually realises whatever party is in power they will all blame the other for things that have gone wrong in the past and promise to put it right.

Sadly though it never seems to happen whether it is the LibCONs or Labour that say it.

And by the way, I support no Political Party but prefer to rely on my own judgement rather than listen to the waffle they all spout to get voted in to get power for themselves!

You mean you don't all walk around drinking scotch 24/7, in your kilts with a half eaten haggis in your hand and a full shock of read hair under your sporran

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

oh.my.god iv never read as much pish in all my life!!

its attitudes like that that cause friction between the scots and english!!

as for strikes bring them on, see how you all whingin when you cant get your operation or when your kids are off school or their education standard falls or your middle class benefits such as child benefit and tax credits bite the dust ! you voted for them, the rest of us suffer!!

me im a socialist through and through and can see me being at a lot of protests over the next few years and i cant wait! united we stand , divided we fall x