FabSwingers.com forum: Ukip Tory or Labour

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

who you gonna vote for and why ?

just my _iew. I feel that the whole political scene needs a new direction I come from a very Labour dominated area and my fathe and grandfather voted labour all there lives and told me to always vote for them to.

Then tony blair and new labour came along promising a referendum as a manifesto pledge on Europe only to later treat its supporters with disdain by not giving its voters a referendum,then they really pissed on us by signing up to Brussels again without giving us a say on the matter Brown came along gave away all our gold reserves left the country in economic meltdown. then one of his minions found it funny by joking to the incoming tory chancellor that the cupboard was bare .....ile never vote for them again the new labourites in power ed milliband and balls are still the old tony cronies lot and I wont vote for them anyway due to there leader being ed milliband he doesn't look capable of tying his own shoe laces.

Now we got the tories all I see is the hard up and being hit harder and harder in savage welfare reforms and a false economy where people work but don't earn enough to the point where they have to go to food banks to feed there familes.

so ile be voting ukip cos there the lesser of the 2 evils and also want to get away from Brussels. My beef with Brussels and the European parliament is that they are a bunch of unelected people as in unelected by the people and that in itself is about as undemocratic as it gets.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

You can accuse the European Parliament of many things but not of being undemocratic.

All MEPs are democratically elected, even Nigel.

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By *ere-for-my-convenienceWoman
over a year ago

Tenbury Wells

Labour always

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This could be a very dangerous thread… People get very passionate about these things…

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm staying out of this

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Going green...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

A friend of mine stood as an independent in Glasgow once. Campaigned on anti-cloning. Received 15 votes.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"You can accuse the European Parliament of many things but not of being undemocratic.

All MEPs are democratically elected, even Nigel."

farage was elected as ukip leader by his party in order to get into the ukip he was elected by the constituency ie us the people ...when he was elected into the European parliament he wasn't elected by the people

at the time ukip had won enough seats to win a seat at the euro parliament much to the annoyance ime sure of the eurocrats lol

he wasn't elected by Brussels his party simply won a number of seats to gain a place on the euro council. do you seriously think any eurocrat would invite someone as ant Europe as farage into there home lol ...fact is fact they dint have a choice unless they wanted to be seen to be going against there own rule book ..ime sure in the not to distant future they will include some clause banning anyone who so much as questions Brussels policies no place on its council.

you see that's the danger with unelected parties ...they make the rules up as they go along

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm voting for the usual bunch, Spoilt Papers.

Might as well when we're stuck with a rather useless Labour MP whatever happens.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm voting for the usual bunch, Spoilt Papers.

Might as well when we're stuck with a rather useless Labour MP whatever happens. "

If you're lumbered with an incumbent who's share of the vote is weighed not counted you can still eat into their majority

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By *ocknrollerMan
over a year ago

Glasgow/Stirlingshire

take your pic, I couldnt care less. Nothing is going to improve a great deal whoever gets in. You'll be promised lies and bullshit by fake wee men who say what they think you want to hear with their fake smiles, whilst being be trodden on and screwed by the fat selfish bastards as you break your back just trying to live your own life. Have fun waving your chosen party's flags and banners everyone, I'm off.

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By *ere-for-my-convenienceWoman
over a year ago

Tenbury Wells

Logically someone has to be voted in office to do a bloody pressured difficult job

If you don't vote or don't offer to do the flipping job yourself paid or unpaid then in my humble opinon your useless and your opinion is worthless

But that's just me

Other opinions are also available lol

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"take your pic, I couldnt care less. Nothing is going to improve a great deal whoever gets in. You'll be promised lies and bullshit by fake wee men who say what they think you want to hear with their fake smiles, whilst being be trodden on and screwed by the fat selfish bastards as you break your back just trying to live your own life. Have fun waving your chosen party's flags and banners everyone, I'm off."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Labour.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

mightily unimpressed by labour at the moment...but i will still vote for them as i feel their ethos still holds true for me despite being very worried by their leadership...not just miliband , but his whole crew..dont see a viable alternative around though

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"mightily unimpressed by labour at the moment...but i will still vote for them as i feel their ethos still holds true for me despite being very worried by their leadership...not just miliband , but his whole crew..dont see a viable alternative around though"

I feel the same.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Considering that the house of lords are unelected its a bit much for us to criticise any other parliament.

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By *asokittyWoman
over a year ago

Nr Worksop

This here for me.

Ukip...jesus

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By *icked weaselCouple
over a year ago

Near Edinburgh..

None of the Above..

Why cant we vote that..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

All I will say is that I have never been told who to vote for - by anybody.

It is my choice and mine alone.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

....but I will never vote Labour

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By *ere-for-my-convenienceWoman
over a year ago

Tenbury Wells

Conservatives = bunch of rich land owning public school educated business owning people who try everything to avoid paying taxes that they can easily afford while imposing more taxes on the poorer masses

Fact

Vote Labour

Respect your fellow man

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By *asokittyWoman
over a year ago

Nr Worksop

"All I will say is that I have never been told who to vote for - by anybody.

It is my choice and mine alone."

Good for you.

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By *ngel n tedCouple
over a year ago

maidstone

As i've just finished my nite shift, i shall be voting "i'll kip"

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By *radleyandRavenCouple
over a year ago

Herts

Wouldn't vote Labour if you paid me.

I couldn't bring myself to vote Ukip so I think I'll stick to the Conservatives.

Yes, they may not have made the best decisions with cuts but they've made less fuck-ups than all the other Bastards in my eyes.

Anyone was going to have a hard job cleaning up after Labour and at least Conservatives gave people an incentive to work (whereas Labour almost penalised you if you worked and made it more worth your while being on benefits).

Fire away!

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By *alandNitaCouple
over a year ago

Scunthorpe

Locally, we've had quite a few elections where seats have been won or lost by just a handful of votes, even as few as "1 Vote".

Every single vote really can count.

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By *ere-for-my-convenienceWoman
over a year ago

Tenbury Wells

"Wouldn't vote Labour if you paid me.

I couldn't bring myself to vote Ukip so I think I'll stick to the Conservatives.

Yes, they may not have made the best decisions with cuts but they've made less fuck-ups than all the other Bastards in my eyes.

Fire away!"

Under Thatcher you could borrow money easier to buy your own house whether it was state owned or a private purchase

Mortgaged poor working class people to the hilt for 25 years or more

Helping rich Tory blankets

Then once you get old and poorly and need the labour inented public health service you're that you've paid into all your working life you're forced to sell your home to pay for treatments and residential care

Very unfair

Your money goes back to rich bankers who created a crash

Very good idea to avoid them

Vote labour

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 27/02/15 07:19:20]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

UKIP. The only party who gives a shit about an English parliament.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Labour here ,

Though a wise man told me never talk politics or religion with friends

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By *ere-for-my-convenienceWoman
over a year ago

Tenbury Wells

Um united kingdom

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Um united kingdom"

???

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By *ere-for-my-convenienceWoman
over a year ago

Tenbury Wells

"Labour here ,

Though a wise man told me never talk politics or religion with friends

Bore da carriad Bach

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By *ere-for-my-convenienceWoman
over a year ago

Tenbury Wells

"Um united kingdom

???"

Parliament has MPs represnting the whole of the UK not just England

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By *ere-for-my-convenienceWoman
over a year ago

Tenbury Wells

"UKIP. The only party who gives a shit about an English parliament. "

Ukip

Fascists

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By *erbyDalesCplCouple
over a year ago

Derbyshire

Under Thatcher you could borrow money easier to buy your own house whether it was state owned or a private purchase

Mortgaged poor working class people to the hilt for 25 years or more

Helping rich Tory blankets...

Blankets? That's probably the nicest thing I've ever heard those bankers called - you make them sound so warm and cuddly!

(Sorry, sometimes things are too good to resist, I know it was your phone really)

Mr ddc

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By *ere-for-my-convenienceWoman
over a year ago

Tenbury Wells

Under Thatcher you could borrow money easier to buy your own house whether it was state owned or a private purchase

Mortgaged poor working class people to the hilt for 25 years or more

Helping rich Tory blankets...

Blankets? That's probably the nicest thing I've ever heard those bankers called - you make them sound so warm and cuddly!

(Sorry, sometimes things are too good to resist, I know it was your phone really)

Mr ddc"

Made me giggle when I read it lol XXX

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

"You can accuse the European Parliament of many things but not of being undemocratic.

All MEPs are democratically elected, even Nigel."

And the Commission? Van Rumpuoy? Juncker?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Um united kingdom

???

Parliament has MPs represnting the whole of the UK not just England"

I'm not talking about the whole of the UK, I'm talking about an English parliament. You know, like the Scottish parliament that already exists? And the Welsh and Northern Irish assemblies that already exist? Well UKIP are the only party campaigning for one.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Any Political Party that Bribes me with Beer and Sex will get my Vote

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Wouldn't vote Labour if you paid me.

I couldn't bring myself to vote Ukip so I think I'll stick to the Conservatives.

Yes, they may not have made the best decisions with cuts but they've made less fuck-ups than all the other Bastards in my eyes.

Fire away!"

I'll be voting Conservative as well.

Socialism makes me want to vomit. Its the politics of jealousy and fecklessness.

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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago

Bristol

"Socialism makes me want to vomit. Its the politics of jealousy and fecklessness. "

That's right, spEak yur brAnEs!

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

I think people should vote as people died to be given the vote. We heard today that the Conservatives failed in their pledge to reduce net migration and blamed the LibDems. I think any party wanting my vote needs to take responsibility for their own actions or inactions and not pass the buck.

Happily for me in Brighton, I have a Roman candidate who wishes to bring the country back to what it was in 100AD, so I might vote for him. Or Labour.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

another hung parliament i think.the electorate trusts non of these liars and scumbags and it really is difficult to pick the best of a really bad bunch.whoever we get will make little difference to the ppl most in need but it will probably get worse if your on benefits and the tories have already said they are slashing the welfare benefit again if they get in but the rich will be well looked after as allways. the tories hate the poor, sick and disabled,millipede is a useless labour leader and farage is the not so funny joker in the pack.lib dems are dead and buried. i can't wait till may

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By *ere-for-my-convenienceWoman
over a year ago

Tenbury Wells

"Um united kingdom

???

Parliament has MPs represnting the whole of the UK not just England

Oh got ya now

Yes the oppressive English parliament that turned a third of the world pink. Sold slaves. Forced Christianity on their newy stolen territories

I do wonder what makes us want separate debating places

Yes i do know

I've actually been on many a campaign trail

Have you?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Um united kingdom

???

Parliament has MPs represnting the whole of the UK not just England

Oh got ya now

Yes the oppressive English parliament that turned a third of the world pink. Sold slaves. Forced Christianity on their newy stolen territories

I do wonder what makes us want separate debating places

Yes i do know

I've actually been on many a campaign trail

Have you?"

Are you talking about pre-1707 or post-1707? Because if it's post, then there hasn't been an English parliament in that 308-year period.

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By *picyspiregirlCouple
over a year ago

chesterfield

"Um united kingdom

???

Parliament has MPs represnting the whole of the UK not just England

Oh got ya now

Yes the oppressive English parliament that turned a third of the world pink. Sold slaves. Forced Christianity on their newy stolen territories

I do wonder what makes us want separate debating places

Yes i do know

I've actually been on many a campaign trail

Have you?"

Is that what a future English parliament will do?

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By *ere-for-my-convenienceWoman
over a year ago

Tenbury Wells

"Um united kingdom

???

Parliament has MPs represnting the whole of the UK not just England

Oh got ya now

Yes the oppressive English parliament that turned a third of the world pink. Sold slaves. Forced Christianity on their newy stolen territories

I do wonder what makes us want separate debating places

Yes i do know

I've actually been on many a campaign trail

Have you?

Is that what a future English parliament will do?"

That's not what I said

I said that's what they have done

AND that explains why Wales and Scotland wanted their own assembles

Please don't misunderstand what I wrote

I'm capable of explaining my reasoning

I'm actually not in favour of the assemblies

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Um united kingdom

???

Parliament has MPs represnting the whole of the UK not just England

Oh got ya now

Yes the oppressive English parliament that turned a third of the world pink. Sold slaves. Forced Christianity on their newy stolen territories

I do wonder what makes us want separate debating places

Yes i do know

I've actually been on many a campaign trail

Have you?

Is that what a future English parliament will do?"

Exactly, it's bloody ridiculous. Scaremongering at its finest. I don't see the Scottish parliament doing any of the above, so why would an English parliament? This is why I hate Labour, so anti-English it's unbelievable.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Sally, for your information, the parliament of England has been inactive for 308 years. It's the BRITISH government that started the movement for constitutional devolution. Don't blame England.

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By *ere-for-my-convenienceWoman
over a year ago

Tenbury Wells

"Um united kingdom

???

Parliament has MPs represnting the whole of the UK not just England

Oh got ya now

Yes the oppressive English parliament that turned a third of the world pink. Sold slaves. Forced Christianity on their newy stolen territories

I do wonder what makes us want separate debating places

Yes i do know

I've actually been on many a campaign trail

Have you?

Is that what a future English parliament will do?

I'm not anti English nor are labour

But history does back the argument for a fairer less London wealth based dictatorship quite frankly

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By *ere-for-my-convenienceWoman
over a year ago

Tenbury Wells

"Sally, for your information, the parliament of England has been inactive for 308 years. It's the BRITISH government that started the movement for constitutional devolution. Don't blame England. "

Doubt misunderstand me

What I actually said that the assemblies were wanted

I never said anything about who began the process

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Where's the thread about religion to add to the explosive mix?

I try to vote for independent candidates if there are and on the ballot paper. Depending on their political bent of course.

The rest are just a homogeneous mix of Westminster Bubble, Back Stabbing, Bollock Preachers who tell you what they think you want to hear and do the opposite when the power drug takes hold of them.

Real democracy would be to let the people vote on issues via text, web, app etc etc. As long as it was secure

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By *ere-for-my-convenienceWoman
over a year ago

Tenbury Wells

"Um united kingdom

???

Parliament has MPs represnting the whole of the UK not just England

Oh got ya now

Yes the oppressive English parliament that turned a third of the world pink. Sold slaves. Forced Christianity on their newy stolen territories

I do wonder what makes us want separate debating places

Yes i do know

I've actually been on many a campaign trail

Have you?

Are you talking about pre-1707 or post-1707? Because if it's post, then there hasn't been an English parliament in that 308-year period."

Realistically and statistically the British government has been predominantly English quite rightly so because there are more English than Welsh Irish and Scottish

The fact that welsh Scottish and Irish rulers had their powers stolen by the English reflects this situation

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Sally, please don't tell me you're trying to imply that England imposed its mighty tyranny over little old Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. If anything, England is the weakest country in the Union. We are the only one that's not represented at constitutional level.

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By *ere-for-my-convenienceWoman
over a year ago

Tenbury Wells

"Sally, please don't tell me you're trying to imply that England imposed its mighty tyranny over little old Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. If anything, England is the weakest country in the Union. We are the only one that's not represented at constitutional level."

Bolox

That's fiction

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By *ere-for-my-convenienceWoman
over a year ago

Tenbury Wells

Simply smoke and mirrors

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Bolox

That's fiction"

Oh yeah? Please explain. Scotland gets free university fees, England doesn't. Scotland gets free medical prescriptions, England. And why? Because they've got a voice, someone fighting their corner and we haven't. We are pushed away and ignored.

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By *ere-for-my-convenienceWoman
over a year ago

Tenbury Wells

Bolox

That's fiction

No English MPs outnumber all the rest

You've been listening to Forages lies

Besides as I've said England bullied the world for hundreds of Years

Its great to hear them bleating unfairness for a changed

Oh and don't start moaning I'm anti English

I married two Englishmen

And have three children's all born here

So its simply untrue

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By *iewMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Angus & Findhorn

Conservative

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Bolox

That's fiction

No English MPs outnumber all the rest

You've been listening to Forages lies

Besides as I've said England bullied the world for hundreds of Years

Its great to hear them bleating unfairness for a changed

Oh and don't start moaning I'm anti English

I married two Englishmen

And have three children's all born here

So its simply untrue"

England didn't bully the world, BRITAIN did. Just because England is the majority, does that mean we have to take all the flak? OK, by that logic, can we claim all the medals won by Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish athletes in the Olympics too? Thanks.

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By *ere-for-my-convenienceWoman
over a year ago

Tenbury Wells

Bolox

That's fiction

No English MPs outnumber all the rest

You've been listening to Forages lies

Besides as I've said England bullied the world for hundreds of Years

Its great to hear them bleating unfairness for a changed

Oh and don't start moaning I'm anti English

I married two Englishmen

And have three children's all born here

So its simply untrue

Irrelevant comparison

Quite frankly I thought you were more intelligent

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Bolox

That's fiction

No English MPs outnumber all the rest

You've been listening to Forages lies

Besides as I've said England bullied the world for hundreds of Years

Its great to hear them bleating unfairness for a changed

Oh and don't start moaning I'm anti English

I married two Englishmen

And have three children's all born here

So its simply untrue

Irrelevant comparison

Quite frankly I thought you were more intelligent "

Why are you questioning my intelligence? You're blaming England for all the terrible things that BRITAIN have done over the years, yet when I turn it around and say "OK, England won all those medals at the Olympics then?", you're backtracking. It seems to me that it's Britain if it's good and England if it's bad.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Bolox

That's fiction

No English MPs outnumber all the rest

You've been listening to Forages lies

Besides as I've said England bullied the world for hundreds of Years

Its great to hear them bleating unfairness for a changed

Oh and don't start moaning I'm anti English

I married two Englishmen

And have three children's all born here

So its simply untrue

Irrelevant comparison

Quite frankly I thought you were more intelligent

Ssssh. Dont let common sense ruin a good nonsensical rant.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Why are we being punished for the sins of our ancestors?

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West

As always, people will vote according to selfish, self interest.

Those with little and who look for someone else to blame for their poor decisions in life will vote a left leaning party. Those of a more aspirational nature who want less government interference in life, more autonomy and less taxes will tend to vote for right leaning parties.

Labour and the Conservatives are really only only a few millimetres left and right of centre. UKIP are probably conservatives on steroids, the Liberals are now more left than Labour and The Greens being the lefts version of UKIP.

Talk of Tory public schoolboys is quite ironic considering that not too long ago we had successive conservative prime ministers who were educated in state schools. The education system is now so dumbed down that we are unlikely to ever see this again. These days, in the main, education is bought, rather than achieved.

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By *ere-for-my-convenienceWoman
over a year ago

Tenbury Wells

One last comment and I'm out of here

The British parliament has always been top heavy with English rich and landed private school educated gentry

So logically any voting has usually gone in their favour

Anyone who thinks that's fair and democratic then simply Google the rotten Burroughs

If you still think it's fair then you deserve to be ruled by uber rich fascists

Ttfn

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

"As always, people will vote according to selfish, self interest.

Good post, especially the education bit.

For years many senior politicians, including Prime Ministers, from all party's were Grammar School educated. Nowadays the high echelons of government, again from all party's, are dominated by private education.

The easiest way to get talented people from all walks of life back into politics would be to re-introduce (lots of) them.

Comprehensive education may be a great ideal but in the harsh realities of the real world it just doesn't work and has been failing kids for decades.

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By *ere-for-my-convenienceWoman
over a year ago

Tenbury Wells

"As always, people will vote according to selfish, self interest.

Good post, especially the education bit.

The easiest way to get talented people from all walks of life back into politics would be to re-introduce (lots of) them.

Comprehensive education may be a great ideal but in the harsh realities of the real world it just doesn't work and has been failing kids for decades."

Private education isn't the reason in itself that we get spoilt super rich MPs

Its not that simple

Its the jobs for the boys and nepotism that goes along with it that I object to

And that's increased across parties I accept that

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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago

Bristol

"As always, people will vote according to selfish, self interest.

This is laughable stuff. Here's an alternative _iew:

Those who believe in the betterment of society, in the treatment of people as equals, who value and care for their fellow men, women and children, who are noble in both deed and countenance, will vote for a left leaning party.

Those who are self-centred, reactionary, who are fearful of change and progress, whose base ignorance means that they will be forever terrified of anyone who slightly differs from their own stunted perception of self, who are happy to be spoon fed a simplified _iew of the world that gives them the comfort of justifying their miserable prejudices, tend to vote for right leaning parties.

I wonder who is right.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Conservative , simply because they got us out of the shot that labour put us in and any other vote is pointless .

It's a thankless task for anyone to try and please all the people all the time , but the tories seem to be doing a pretty good job overall , despite taking over from what can only be described as an absolute disaster that labour created .

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By *ere-for-my-convenienceWoman
over a year ago

Tenbury Wells

"As always, people will vote according to selfish, self interest.

This is laughable stuff. Here's an alternative _iew:

I wonder who is right.

Absolutely well put

My sentiments exactly

I canvas for free for the empowerment of people less able wealthy or aware than myself

For the good of the majority of people

Its called a social conscious

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

"As always, people will vote according to selfish, self interest.

Good post, especially the education bit.

The easiest way to get talented people from all walks of life back into politics would be to re-introduce (lots of) them.

Comprehensive education may be a great ideal but in the harsh realities of the real world it just doesn't work and has been failing kids for decades.

Private education isn't the reason in itself that we get spoilt super rich MPs

Its not that simple

Its the jobs for the boys and nepotism that goes along with it that I object to

And that's increased across parties I accept that"

Of course nepotism is alive and well and it is far from exclusive to the Tory's. In fact I think you will find that as far as parliament is concerned Labour are far more guilty.

Benn, Kinnock, Blair, Straw to name just a few.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"You can accuse the European Parliament of many things but not of being undemocratic.

All MEPs are democratically elected, even Nigel.

And the Commission? Van Rumpuoy? Juncker?"

The commission could be more democratically elected, that's true, as could the cabinets of all the national governments who are appointed by prime ministers or presidents without any say from us. As it is, commissioners are put forward by elected democratic governments and subject to approval by democratically elected meps. The president of the commission is approved by a majority of meps.

That's more democratic than the way a prime minister is selected here.

But let's not let facts get in the way of a good old euro sceptic fib.

What actually happens is

"A new team of 28 Commissioners (one from each EU Member State) is appointed every five years.

The candidate for President of the Commission is proposed to the European Parliament by the European Council that decides by qualified majority and taking into account the elections to the European Parliament.

The Commission President is then elected by the European Parliament by a majority of its component members (which corresponds to at least 376 out of 751 votes).

Following this election, the President-elect selects the 27 other members of the Commission, on the basis of the suggestions made by Member States. The final list of Commissioners-designate has then to be agreed between the President-elect and the Council. The Commission as a whole needs the Parliament's consent. Prior to this, Commissioners-designate are assessed by the European Parliament committees."

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By *ere-for-my-convenienceWoman
over a year ago

Tenbury Wells

"As always, people will vote according to selfish, self interest.

Good post, especially the education bit.

The easiest way to get talented people from all walks of life back into politics would be to re-introduce (lots of) them.

Comprehensive education may be a great ideal but in the harsh realities of the real world it just doesn't work and has been failing kids for decades.

Private education isn't the reason in itself that we get spoilt super rich MPs

Its not that simple

Its the jobs for the boys and nepotism that goes along with it that I object to

And that's increased across parties I accept that

Of course nepotism is alive and well and it is far from exclusive to the Tory's. In fact I think you will find that as far as parliament is concerned Labour are far more guilty.

Benn, Kinnock, Blair, Straw to name just a few."

I know one of those personally

And all their children earned their jobs

Fought and canpained hard

Unlike when usually Tories bought the seats in the past

YOU clearly do not know your political history

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Of course if meps are too lazy to vote when elected that would make it less democratic.

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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago

Bristol

"Conservative , simply because they got us out of the shot that labour put us in and any other vote is pointless .

This post made presumably in absence of any knowledge of global or national economic activity occurring at any point between the years 2002 and 2015. Good job!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Does the Labour party still exist anymore , I know who I would vote for but that's a secret

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By *ere-for-my-convenienceWoman
over a year ago

Tenbury Wells

"Conservative , simply because they got us out of the shot that labour put us in and any other vote is pointless .

This post made presumably in absence of any knowledge of global or national economic activity occurring at any point between the years 2002 and 2015. Good job!"

Indeed

Remember that thing with the bankers

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"You can accuse the European Parliament of many things but not of being undemocratic.

All MEPs are democratically elected, even Nigel."

the parliament IS elected. But they have no real power. The decisions are taken by UNELECTED commisioners. The EU budget has not been signed off by auditors for over 20 years....why? Because the auditors would then be responsible and would be prosecuted for signing off on a lie.

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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago

Bristol

"As always, people will vote according to selfish, self interest.

This is laughable stuff. Here's an alternative _iew:

I wonder who is right.

Absolutely well put

My sentiments exactly

I canvas for free for the empowerment of people less able wealthy or aware than myself

For the good of the majority of people

Its called a social conscious

Of course, if you believe in those things, one wonders why you advocate voting Labour.

Labour are, just like the Tories and Lib Dems, neoliberals. They have no more concern for the good of the majority of the people than any of the three main parties. They are concerned with the preservation of the status quo for the benefit of the wealthy. Nothing more, nothing less.

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By *ere-for-my-convenienceWoman
over a year ago

Tenbury Wells

"As always, people will vote according to selfish, self interest.

This is laughable stuff. Here's an alternative _iew:

I wonder who is right.

Absolutely well put

My sentiments exactly

I canvas for free for the empowerment of people less able wealthy or aware than myself

For the good of the majority of people

Its called a social conscious

Of course, if you believe in those things, one wonders why you advocate voting Labour.

I don't agree obviously

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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago

Bristol

And yet they are the facts.

Invariably, people who believe in social justice and are staunch supporters of the Labour party think that the party is as it was in 1985.

Sadly, it's thirty years later. That Labour party is long dead, and will never exist in that form again. It's rotten to the core, and it illustrates the level of political ignorance that exists in this country that people will still argue politics between Labour and Tory.

At least the flag waving is nice.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Conservative , simply because they got us out of the shot that labour put us in and any other vote is pointless .

This post made presumably in absence of any knowledge of global or national economic activity occurring at any point between the years 2002 and 2015. Good job!"

Not an absence of knowledge , but a realistic perspective on how to look at protecting us as a nation from going the same way as Greece , Portugal, Spain , Italy to name a few .

In the same period they and others have suffered enormous shortfalls and economically are in the mire .... just as we were under labour .

Fortunately the tories came in just in time to rescue us and despite worldwide economic problems we are in a much better position now .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I simply won't vote as far as I am concerned any vote is a wasted vote anyway

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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago

Bristol

"Conservative , simply because they got us out of the shot that labour put us in and any other vote is pointless .

This post made presumably in absence of any knowledge of global or national economic activity occurring at any point between the years 2002 and 2015. Good job!

Not an absence of knowledge , but a realistic perspective on how to look at protecting us as a nation from going the same way as Greece , Portugal, Spain , Italy to name a few .

In the same period they and others have suffered enormous shortfalls and economically are in the mire .... just as we were under labour .

Fortunately the tories came in just in time to rescue us and despite worldwide economic problems we are in a much better position now .

Any economic improvements that have happened under the current Tory government have happened in spite of their actions, not because of them.

Luckily, most people's concept of economic performance is limited to the headlines.

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

"As always, people will vote according to selfish, self interest.

Good post, especially the education bit.

The easiest way to get talented people from all walks of life back into politics would be to re-introduce (lots of) them.

Comprehensive education may be a great ideal but in the harsh realities of the real world it just doesn't work and has been failing kids for decades.

Private education isn't the reason in itself that we get spoilt super rich MPs

Its not that simple

Its the jobs for the boys and nepotism that goes along with it that I object to

And that's increased across parties I accept that

Of course nepotism is alive and well and it is far from exclusive to the Tory's. In fact I think you will find that as far as parliament is concerned Labour are far more guilty.

Benn, Kinnock, Blair, Straw to name just a few.

I know one of those personally

And all their children earned their jobs

Fought and canpained hard

Unlike when usually Tories bought the seats in the past

YOU clearly do not know your political history"

I know it very well but the rotten boroughs are hardly relevant to that list. You will be calling the Lib Dems "Whigs" next.

Maybe they did/do fight and campaign hard as do the vast majority in all party's (trust me I've been there) but it's hardly fair to accuse the Tory's of nepotism when that little list is at large. Today not nearly 200 years ago.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"You can accuse the European Parliament of many things but not of being undemocratic.

All MEPs are democratically elected, even Nigel.

Decisions in the uk are taken by the prime minister and cabinet. The cabinet aren't democratically elected or voted on by parliament in any way at all. The European process involves re_iew of commissioners by meps and a majority vote for the president. Which process sounds more democratic to you?

The accounts are not signed off is another euro sceptic lie repeated by people too lazy to check the facts. The sign off is available on the web site of the European court of auditors as it has been in previous years.

There are lots of reasons for being euro sceptic, but trotting out all the old fibs is daft.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Bolox

That's fiction

Wouldn't say England gets pushed away but agree with what you're saying and that's why I support the Scottish National Party. It gives us a voice which otherwise is ignored and they govern well in Scotland. Not perfect by any means, no party would be, but they piss well with the cock they have!

I'm all for an English Parliament but what I'd fear for you, is that it's kept in London and there's no change. It would need to be separate from WM.

Bit like fab forums. Scotland, Wales and UK.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Conservative.

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By *bbandflowCouple
over a year ago

South Devon

"As always, people will vote according to selfish, self interest.

Good post, especially the education bit.

The easiest way to get talented people from all walks of life back into politics would be to re-introduce (lots of) them.

Comprehensive education may be a great ideal but in the harsh realities of the real world it just doesn't work and has been failing kids for decades."

Obviously that's a sweeping generalisation, many Comprehensive schools are very good, but there are too many failing.

It is salutary to remember existed before Comprehensive schools were introduced, children at eleven were divided by a single exam into those who were considered intelligent enough to pursue white collar careers, those that failed were left in no doubt in the knowledge future employment would be largely manual.

Of course it must be recognised that most employment then was manual labour based, and the number of women with full time jobs were low. Nevertheless the Grammar/Secondary Modern system was a crude and wasteful method of supplying the countries educational requirements, and obviously not a system designed to satisfy today's employment demographics.

That the Comprehensive system has failed to deliver in many schools is not so much the system itself, but that the methodology of education has been plagued with multi educational ideologies, schools being used as laboratories for experimenting.

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West

"Conservative , simply because they got us out of the shot that labour put us in and any other vote is pointless .

This post made presumably in absence of any knowledge of global or national economic activity occurring at any point between the years 2002 and 2015. Good job!"

The UK created more new jobs last year than the whole of the EU put together. Hollande's socialist Utopia is failing France at every level and the generally socialist southern European countries are a perfect example of where we could be if we continued the Labour philosophy of spending money that we dont have.

Personally I think that it will be very interesting to see what happens in Greece in the coming months and years. "The People" have democratically voted for a huge change and Syriza are unapologetically hard left socialists.

Lets see how a hard left government in Greece deals with their fucked up economy compared to how this conservative lead government dealt with ours. Interestingly, Syriza are dead against a Euro exit because like all hardened socialists thety realise the need of other peoples money to fulfil their ambitions.

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

"As always, people will vote according to selfish, self interest.

Good post, especially the education bit.

The easiest way to get talented people from all walks of life back into politics would be to re-introduce (lots of) them.

Comprehensive education may be a great ideal but in the harsh realities of the real world it just doesn't work and has been failing kids for decades.

Obviously that's a sweeping generalisation, many Comprehensive schools are very good, but there are too many failing.

Fair comment. Yes the old system was, to say the least, a bit crude but I think it suited the country's needs at the time.

I wouldn't go back to an exact copy but there does need to be a way of getting the talented kids from all walks of life to the top. The current post code lottery just doesn't, and never will, work

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

"Conservative , simply because they got us out of the shot that labour put us in and any other vote is pointless .

This post made presumably in absence of any knowledge of global or national economic activity occurring at any point between the years 2002 and 2015. Good job!

I think Syriza must be the Greek word for slow motion train wreck. In English it is Socialism.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Conservative , simply because they got us out of the shot that labour put us in and any other vote is pointless .

This post made presumably in absence of any knowledge of global or national economic activity occurring at any point between the years 2002 and 2015. Good job!

I bet they won't spend as much money that they don't have, as the Tories have spent!!

Tories and borrowing. Up up up up

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

Pax, citizens, pax.....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Conservative , simply because they got us out of the shot that labour put us in and any other vote is pointless .

This post made presumably in absence of any knowledge of global or national economic activity occurring at any point between the years 2002 and 2015. Good job!

Not an absence of knowledge , but a realistic perspective on how to look at protecting us as a nation from going the same way as Greece , Portugal, Spain , Italy to name a few .

In the same period they and others have suffered enormous shortfalls and economically are in the mire .... just as we were under labour .

Fortunately the tories came in just in time to rescue us and despite worldwide economic problems we are in a much better position now .

Unless you are disabled. Then under the Tory government you are in pretty much one of the worst positions you can be in.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Having recently met my local MP who was not only helpful, but very nice, and genuinely seems to have an appreciation that he is representing his local constituents, I will most likely be voting for him, irrespective of party.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Having recently met my local MP who was not only helpful, but very nice, and genuinely seems to have an appreciation that he is representing his local constituents, I will most likely be voting for him, irrespective of party."
.

I've found in my time dealing with mps thatt independents and back benchers are certainly the more helpful.

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By *asokittyWoman
over a year ago

Nr Worksop

Because they're too busy meddling in everyone else's affairs

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"Conservative , simply because they got us out of the shot that labour put us in and any other vote is pointless .

if your going to contribute at least be partially accurate..

Labour got many things wrong and yes the expansion of thatchers relaxation of the financial sector went too far but it was a GLOBAL financial crash..

unless of course Brown and Darling were also responsible for the US sub prime fiasco, which will be news to the US senate committee and others who omitted to mention it in their enquiry..

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

Any economic improvements that have happened under the current Tory government have happened in spite of their actions, not because of them.

Luckily, most people's concept of economic performance is limited to the headlines."

this..

anyone on the 'right' want to mention the National debt and how much it has increased under Osborne..?

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

I don't know who I'll be voting for yet. I have some tastes politically and don't vote for myself, but for the country. I do however vote for the actual person who is going to be the local MP, rather than just the party though.

I'm not sure who the candidates here are yet, and haven't researched them - they may be listed already.

I'd also need to re_iew manifestos.

I believe it's better for the UK to be in the EU and I'm rather sceptical that UKIP are more than a one trick pony or could run the country. They're not new, as old style politicians and creaming off the cash for very little work seems to be the ukip deal of the day, every day. I find that distasteful - but the right candidate could swing it.

It's a tough one, as I've said before, I'm sure no one party will have an outright majority to win - as is now more the norm in modern elections, not just in the UK but around the world.

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West

"Conservative , simply because they got us out of the shot that labour put us in and any other vote is pointless .

if your going to contribute at least be partially accurate..

Labour got many things wrong and yes the expansion of thatchers relaxation of the financial sector went too far but it was a GLOBAL financial crash..

unless of course Brown and Darling were also responsible for the US sub prime fiasco, which will be news to the US senate committee and others who omitted to mention it in their enquiry..

Spin.

Committing to unsustainable government expansion and spending had nothing whatsoever to do with anyone but Labour. They took over a healthy surplus economy built by John Major in 1997 and within four years we were back in deficit and have been there ever since.

And as for your following post, how on earth can debt be reduced without first tackling the deficit?

This coalition government has identified the line between reckless austerity and giving the economy space to pull itself together. The government could have tackled the deficit issue overnight by privatising the NHS and cutting pensions or some other extreme austerity project. Instead, it chose to make reasonable cuts to government spending with the aim of a gradual deficit reduction. Only when the economy runs at a surplus can debt be reduced and that can't happen overnight in a mainstream democracy like ours. Positive economic reaction to government action is never as instantaneous as negative reactions because it is always much more difficult to save than it is to spend. The budget surplus inherited by Tony Blair in 1997 is just such an example. He had his first three years of budget surplus but he very quickly turned that into a deficit when in reality he should have continued the surplus - saving for when the economy was not so strong.

Whoever wins the election in May will have a good platform on which to push the economy onwards and it wont be until 2017/2018 that the good work of the last five years will show up in any meaningful way.

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

The Telegraph states that...."The Coalition took office in 2010 and said it wanted to clear the deficit by 2015/16. Having missed that target, Mr Cameron's plans now clear the deficit by 2018/19. That means more borrowing, borrowing that adds to the stock of public debt......"

If his original plan failed, I don't see any reasonable cause to accept the premise that doing the same will have a different outcome.

It's duck houses for some and food

banks for others.

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West

"The Telegraph states that...."The Coalition took office in 2010 and said it wanted to clear the deficit by 2015/16. Having missed that target, Mr Cameron's plans now clear the deficit by 2018/19. That means more borrowing, borrowing that adds to the stock of public debt......"

If his original plan failed, I don't see any reasonable cause to accept the premise that doing the same will have a different outcome.

It's duck houses for some and food

banks for others. "

Strange logic there if you dont mind me saying.

We were 150 billion a year in the hole in 2010 and now it is around 90 billion a year. It is still a shit place to be but not as deep shit as it was and it is improving year on year. How do you propose to turn the debt into a surplus then?

Cant understand the logic of people complaining about austerity cuts and also expecting that government spending should also miraculously dissappear as well. Bizarre.

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

If his original plan failed, I don't see any

reasonable cause to accept the

premise that doing the same will have a

different outcome.

It's duck houses for some and food

banks for others.

Strange logic there if you dont mind me

saying

We were 150 billion a year in the hole in

2010 and now it is around 90 billion a

year. It is still a shit place to be but not

as deep shit as it was and it is

improving year on year. How do you

propose to turn the debt into a surplus

then?

Cant understand the logic of people

complaining about austerity cuts and

also expecting that government

spending should also miraculously

dissappear as well. Bizarre."

I have no intention of turning the countries debt into surplus. I'm merely quoting the Daily Telegraph.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Wouldn't vote Labour if you paid me.

I couldn't bring myself to vote Ukip so I think I'll stick to the Conservatives.

Yes, they may not have made the best decisions with cuts but they've made less fuck-ups than all the other Bastards in my eyes.

Fire away!

Under Thatcher you could borrow money easier to buy your own house whether it was state owned or a private purchase

Mortgaged poor working class people to the hilt for 25 years or more

Helping rich Tory blankets

Very unfair

Your money goes back to rich bankers who created a crash

Very good idea to avoid them

Vote labour"

Yep, mortgage is now your healthcare insurance policy.

No inheritance for the kids who's parents managed to raise themselves out of council owned homes etc.

Unless they drop dead due to available medical services/treatments being underfunded or withheld.

My parents are going under the patio the wealthy selfish bastards

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

why only those three????

i lot of people like to bash the greens... but they have a lot more policies out there than ukip do....

i don't think i can bring myself to vote lib dem like last time after the student fee debacle... so i look like its going to be labour or the green party, and "ed and ed" have yet to woo me as much

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West

"why only those three????

i lot of people like to bash the greens... but they have a lot more policies out there than ukip do....

i don't think i can bring myself to vote lib dem like last time after the student fee debacle... so i look like its going to be labour or the green party, and "ed and ed" have yet to woo me as much"

I might not agree with the Labour ideas but at least they have policies that have some chance of being costed to reasonable margin whereas the Greens have very few policies that can costed even remotely.

The citizens wage and social housing programme are their flagship policies and neither can be funded without destroying the economy.

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By *asokittyWoman
over a year ago

Nr Worksop

"why only those three????

i lot of people like to bash the greens... but they have a lot more policies out there than ukip do....

i don't think i can bring myself to vote lib dem like last time after the student fee debacle... so i look like its going to be labour or the green party, and "ed and ed" have yet to woo me as much"

I think because as it stands they're the only ones with a chance of getting anywhere. That said we really need to be afraid of a ukip strong hold.

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"why only those three????

i lot of people like to bash the greens... but they have a lot more policies out there than ukip do....

i don't think i can bring myself to vote lib dem like last time after the student fee debacle... so i look like its going to be labour or the green party, and "ed and ed" have yet to woo me as much

The citizens wage and social housing programme are their flagship policies and neither can be funded without destroying the economy."

in which case could the arguement about voting Green be the same reasoning for those people not voting UKIP..... after all they have no policies at the moment to even cost!

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West

"why only those three????

i lot of people like to bash the greens... but they have a lot more policies out there than ukip do....

i don't think i can bring myself to vote lib dem like last time after the student fee debacle... so i look like its going to be labour or the green party, and "ed and ed" have yet to woo me as much

The citizens wage and social housing programme are their flagship policies and neither can be funded without destroying the economy.

in which case could the arguement about voting Green be the same reasoning for those people not voting UKIP..... after all they have no policies at the moment to even cost!

I dont disagree one bit. Anyone voting for any Party without a costed manifesto and budget must be bonkers.

A vote for UKIP is a vote for the person who says... Vote for me if you dont like foreigners. Just trust me on the rest, it will all be OK.

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

I think because as it stands they're the only ones with a chance of getting anywhere. That said we really need to be afraid of a ukip strong hold. "

there are certain seats that the greens actually have a good chance of winning.... actually about the same number that UKIP do.... look for seats in Norwich, Bristol, Sheffield, and Liverpool.. as well as brighton (where Caroline Lucas has been a very good local MP, in spite of the council)

basically constinuacys with big student populations... york,oxford,cambridge, and possibly down in cornwall as well.....

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"Conservative , simply because they got us out of the shot that labour put us in and any other vote is pointless .

if your going to contribute at least be partially accurate..

Labour got many things wrong and yes the expansion of thatchers relaxation of the financial sector went too far but it was a GLOBAL financial crash..

unless of course Brown and Darling were also responsible for the US sub prime fiasco, which will be news to the US senate committee and others who omitted to mention it in their enquiry..

Spin.

And as for your following post, how on earth can debt be reduced without first tackling the deficit?

how ironic that you start your response off with spin then go on to spin yourself..

so in your learned opinion the policies of new Labour (many of which i bloody abhor if honest) were to blame for the GLOBAL financial crash..?

(sorry to us caps again but some dont want to acknowledge it)

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By *bi HaiveMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Cheeseville, Somerset

"Conservative

Ditto.

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West

how ironic that you start your response off with spin then go on to spin yourself..

so in your learned opinion the policies of new Labour (many of which i bloody abhor if honest) were to blame for the GLOBAL financial crash..?

(sorry to us caps again but some dont want to acknowledge it)"

The banking crisis was not the sole cause of our 2010, £150 billion record deficit.

Tony Blairs labour government was handed a stable economy in 1997. This was an economy that had taken a hammering in the recession of the early 1990's. For the first couple of years it ran a surplus and by rights it should have stayed that way through the boom times up to 2007. Unfortunately, labour spending pushed the budget into deficit DESPITE the boom times thereby making the borrowings needed to support the banking bailout much, much more damaging to the economy than it should have been. Actually as it happened - Tony Blair more than Gordon Brown was the big spender, as Gordon Brown was reigning in the spend in 2007 just before the crash.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Any economic improvements that have happened under the current Tory government have happened in spite of their actions, not because of them.

Luckily, most people's concept of economic performance is limited to the headlines.

this..

anyone on the 'right' want to mention the National debt and how much it has increased under Osborne..?"

I think that is mentioned further down in the thread .

Your comment on how if I am going to contribute at least have some facts is also covered , not least by the fact that we are now in a much better position than most of the world at this moment in time .

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

Any economic improvements that have happened under the current Tory government have happened in spite of their actions, not because of them.

Luckily, most people's concept of economic performance is limited to the headlines.

this..

anyone on the 'right' want to mention the National debt and how much it has increased under Osborne..?

I think that is mentioned further down in the thread .

That's not so much to do with the fact the UK is doing well as that the rest of the world is doing really badly.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Also are true deficit is running at a higher gdp ratio than Greece.( yeah even that socialist nightmare nutjob country spend less money they haven't got than the Tories are)

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

[Removed by poster at 27/02/15 17:01:49]

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"Also are true deficit is running at a higher gdp ratio than Greece.( yeah even that socialist nightmare nutjob country spend less money they haven't got than the Tories are)"

actually... i hate to say that is not true...

the actually monetary debt is higher.... in that the UK owes more.. but not in terms of GDP

at the moment UK's debt runs at about 80% of GDP, Greece's runs at about 150% of GDP, which is why they in effect greece are in huge trouble and have to borrow at the moment, and the UK doesn't....

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

I wonder if some people actually know the difference between the "National Debt" and the "Budget Deficit"

The national debt is the total amount of money that is owed by the government and has built up over decades to be at (give or take a few bob) a trillion quid. The Tory's never promised to cut the national debt in this parliament. They couldn't and would never have been so stupid as to make such a promise.

What they did promise to cut is the "Budget Deficit" which is the annual gap between what the government raises in taxes and what it spends that has to be covered by borrowing.

Osborne did say that he would like to get the deficit down to zero by the end of this parliament, but it was only that, a wish not a promise.

To be fair he could have done a bit better, but down from 150 billion to 90 billion isn't that bad considering the circumstances.

I find it slightly amusing that the left are now bleating that Osborne hasn't got the deficit down far enough when for five years we've heard nothing else but the "Savage Cuts"

You can't have it both ways.

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West

"I wonder if some people actually know the difference between the "National Debt" and the "Budget Deficit"

What they did promise to cut is the "Budget Deficit" which is the annual gap between what the government raises in taxes and what it spends that has to be covered by borrowing.

Osborne did say that he would like to get the deficit down to zero by the end of this parliament, but it was only that, a wish not a promise.

To be fair he could have done a bit better, but down from 150 billion to 90 billion isn't that bad considering the circumstances.

I find it slightly amusing that the left are now bleating that Osborne hasn't got the deficit down far enough when for five years we've heard nothing else but the "Savage Cuts"

You can't have it both ways. "

Exactly

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I wonder if some people know the difference between a commercial mortgage and a business loan.

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

I'm not bleating - I'm not wearing Diamondsmiles' sheep onsie

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

What they did promise to cut is the "Budget Deficit" which is the annual gap between what the government raises in taxes and what it spends that has to be covered by borrowing.

Osborne did say that he would like to get the deficit down to zero by the end of this parliament, but it was only that, a wish not a promise.

To be fair he could have done a bit better, but down from 150 billion to 90 billion isn't that bad considering the circumstances.

I find it slightly amusing that the left are now bleating that Osborne hasn't got the deficit down far enough when for five years we've heard nothing else but the "Savage Cuts"

You can't have it both ways. "

neither can you..... where I just called out sexy bum for false info... the same has to go for this...

it was actually a pledge in the 2010 conservative general election manifesto.... AND it is actually in the 2010 Budget speech george osborne made......

from the 2010 budget speech......

"Underlying current budget deficit should be "in balance" by 2015/16.

Public sector net borrowing will be £149bn this year, £116bn next year, £89bn in 2012-13 and £60bn in 2013-14.

By 2014-15 borrowing to reach £37bn, falling to £20bn in 2015-16."

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

I see Obifox is voting for rhe Ditto party.

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

What they did promise to cut is the "Budget Deficit" which is the annual gap between what the government raises in taxes and what it spends that has to be covered by borrowing.

Osborne did say that he would like to get the deficit down to zero by the end of this parliament, but it was only that, a wish not a promise.

To be fair he could have done a bit better, but down from 150 billion to 90 billion isn't that bad considering the circumstances.

I find it slightly amusing that the left are now bleating that Osborne hasn't got the deficit down far enough when for five years we've heard nothing else but the "Savage Cuts"

You can't have it both ways.

neither can you..... where I just called out sexy bum for false info... the same has to go for this...

it was actually a pledge in the 2010 conservative general election manifesto.... AND it is actually in the 2010 Budget speech george osborne made......

from the 2010 budget speech......

"Underlying current budget deficit should be "in balance" by 2015/16.

Public sector net borrowing will be £149bn this year, £116bn next year, £89bn in 2012-13 and £60bn in 2013-14.

By 2014-15 borrowing to reach £37bn, falling to £20bn in 2015-16.""

So he should have cut deeper and harder then. Hey ho.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"As always, people will vote according to selfish, self interest.

I will be voting Labour, most likely - self interest, possibly.

As someone who lost his job due to austerity cuts under the Tories yet was doing well under Labour, I take very, very grave exception to your assertion that the hardship I have endured is in any way related to poor decisions that I have made. I was a victim of austerity cuts. If the Tories get back in, many others will find themselves in the same boat, no fault of their own.

There has also been talk of spin on this thread: am I alone in suspecting that the Government has used spin to give a false impression of where the economy is currently? The rise of zero hours contracts and public sector pay freezes seems to be contrary to (allegedly) falling unemployment and rising wages.

It has rightly been said that the full effects of the current government's economic policies have yet to be fully felt: conventionally, these take about 2 years to filter through. Therefore I would suggest that all the cuts will be seen to have had a negative effect some time after the next election.

I would also point to how the rich have got richer, while the rest are asked to endure worse and worse deals, under the Tories.

If posters want to end up on no guaranteed hours, no job security, further and harsher cuts to jobs and services, quite possibly seeing their own jobs, then vote Conservative. Personally, I won't.

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

It's also a fallacy to think that privatization is always the better option. I thought I'd add that soupçon to the mix if a mixed metaphor can be thrown in.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

UKIP..get's our vote.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"As always, people will vote according to selfish, self interest.

I will be voting Labour, most likely - self interest, possibly.

I would also point to how the rich have got richer, while the rest are asked to endure worse and worse deals, under the Tories.

If posters want to end up on no guaranteed hours, no job security, further and harsher cuts to jobs and services, quite possibly seeing their own jobs, then vote Conservative. Personally, I won't. "

Throw today's youth and their future into your above mix and for them things are very bleak.

25k deposit on a 197k property.

4-5k monthly income (sales) working for a major international company for one year with a solid work record for 4 years in this field hitting the targets.

Solid credit history.

Mortgage refused unless the deposit was increased by £10k.

Who can meet these requirements ? Not the youth of today, even with their parents help.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Run for the hills the New World Order are coming

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

ime sure every labour voter shares the same concerns as yourself about now. I feel millibands pledge to bring back prescot yet another tony crone simply compinds the issue further. I feel if this lot gain power they will be more useless and incompetent than Brown ever was.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Considering that the house of lords are unelected its a bit much for us to criticise any other parliament."

good point

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Wouldn't vote Labour if you paid me.

I couldn't bring myself to vote Ukip so I think I'll stick to the Conservatives.

Yes, they may not have made the best decisions with cuts but they've made less fuck-ups than all the other Bastards in my eyes.

Fire away!"

why couldn't you bring yourself to vote ukip ?

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Bolox

That's fiction

No English MPs outnumber all the rest

You've been listening to Forages lies

Besides as I've said England bullied the world for hundreds of Years

Its great to hear them bleating unfairness for a changed

Oh and don't start moaning I'm anti English

I married two Englishmen

And have three children's all born here

So its simply untrue

good points well put

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"why only those three????

i lot of people like to bash the greens... but they have a lot more policies out there than ukip do....

i don't think i can bring myself to vote lib dem like last time after the student fee debacle... so i look like its going to be labour or the green party, and "ed and ed" have yet to woo me as much

The citizens wage and social housing programme are their flagship policies and neither can be funded without destroying the economy.

in which case could the arguement about voting Green be the same reasoning for those people not voting UKIP..... after all they have no policies at the moment to even cost!

I dont disagree one bit. Anyone voting for any Party without a costed manifesto and budget must be bonkers.

A vote for UKIP is a vote for the person who says... Vote for me if you dont like foreigners. Just trust me on the rest, it will all be OK."

a vote for ukip is a vote for not liking foreigners ???? both main parties trotted this clap trap when they became fearfull of losing more votes to ukip and it left them with egg on there face so if u believe ukip are racist ..as u do then so to must be the tories as the majority of ukip are made up of disaffected tory mps anyone can say anything but theres never any evidence to prove such a statement,

same old rubbish ...not sure if your aware but immigration and border control is a main political hot potatoe not only on ukips manifesto but also tory and labours to.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Any Political Party that Bribes me with Beer and Sex will get my Vote

"
The beer and sex party.. condoms at the ready..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

UKIP because I believe we are better off out of Europe. But political discussion bores me so thats my only input in this thread

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By *otebonydeluxeWoman
over a year ago

earls barton

Ukip. All the way

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By *U1966Man
over a year ago

Devon

Liberal Democrat no matter how i vote i will only get a Conservative MP only with proportional representation would people's vote really count

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Wouldn't vote Labour if you paid me.

I couldn't bring myself to vote Ukip so I think I'll stick to the Conservatives.

Yes, they may not have made the best decisions with cuts but they've made less fuck-ups than all the other Bastards in my eyes.

Fire away!

I'll be voting Conservative as well.

Socialism makes me want to vomit. Its the politics of jealousy and fecklessness. "
I can never forget roy hatton for liverpool city Council, socialist,communist, left Wing councillor he always had plenty to say and non of it any good the only Good thing to come out of it was he was Shown for what he was a vile p*g.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"Wouldn't vote Labour if you paid me.

I couldn't bring myself to vote Ukip so I think I'll stick to the Conservatives.

Yes, they may not have made the best decisions with cuts but they've made less fuck-ups than all the other Bastards in my eyes.

Fire away!

I'll be voting Conservative as well.

Socialism makes me want to vomit. Its the politics of jealousy and fecklessness. I can never forget roy hatton for liverpool city Council, socialist,communist, left Wing councillor he always had plenty to say and non of it any good the only Good thing to come out of it was he was Shown for what he was a vile p*g. "

Derek Hatton?

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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago

Bristol

I can never forget him! Except his name.

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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago

Bristol

"why only those three????

i lot of people like to bash the greens... but they have a lot more policies out there than ukip do....

i don't think i can bring myself to vote lib dem like last time after the student fee debacle... so i look like its going to be labour or the green party, and "ed and ed" have yet to woo me as much

The citizens wage and social housing programme are their flagship policies and neither can be funded without destroying the economy.

in which case could the arguement about voting Green be the same reasoning for those people not voting UKIP..... after all they have no policies at the moment to even cost!

I dont disagree one bit. Anyone voting for any Party without a costed manifesto and budget must be bonkers.

A vote for UKIP is a vote for the person who says... Vote for me if you dont like foreigners. Just trust me on the rest, it will all be OK.

same old rubbish ...not sure if your aware but immigration and border control is a main political hot potatoe not only on ukips manifesto but also tory and labours to.

It may surprise you, but many, many people consider the Conservatives to be a party of reactionary racists, who have managed to adopt a thin veneer of respectability.

So claiming that UKIP is made up of disaffected Tories is no proof of an aversion to racism on the party's part.

Of course, the fact that UKIP councillors are having to resign on an almost daily basis due to their inability to stop being racist does tend to hint at them being, you know, racists.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Wouldn't vote Labour if you paid me.

I couldn't bring myself to vote Ukip so I think I'll stick to the Conservatives.

Yes, they may not have made the best decisions with cuts but they've made less fuck-ups than all the other Bastards in my eyes.

Fire away!

I'll be voting Conservative as well.

Derek Hatton?"
Corrected

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"Of course if meps are too lazy to vote when elected that would make it less democratic."

Assume you are talking about UKIP mep's there?

Well have a look at the reason why they may not vote in the european parliament then. Farage has clearly said openly that he and other UKIP mep's will always refuse to vote on any matter in the european parliament that would hand more power to Brussels.

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By *B9 QueenWoman
over a year ago

Over the rainbow, under the bridge

I'll consider all possibilities before voting. Often don't know till just before I vote anyway. But I'd rather stick rusty needles through my eyeballs than vote Tory/UKIP.

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"You can accuse the European Parliament of many things but not of being undemocratic.

All MEPs are democratically elected, even Nigel.

There are lots of reasons for being euro sceptic, but trotting out all the old fibs is daft. "

There is nothing secret about how the cabinet is chosen. The EU commision is elected by secret ballot by those in Brussels.

The european court of auditors are the 5th pillar of the EU, so they sign off their own accounts. This is akin to a criminal prosecuting himself for a crime, of course he is not going to find himself guilty of any wrongdoing.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"You can accuse the European Parliament of many things but not of being undemocratic.

All MEPs are democratically elected, even Nigel.

There are lots of reasons for being euro sceptic, but trotting out all the old fibs is daft.

There is nothing secret about how the cabinet is chosen. The EU commision is elected by secret ballot by those in Brussels.

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

UKIPs manifesto will be released in April (the same month as the tories say they will release theirs). I don't need to see it though, as UKIP have said they will keep the Nhs free at the point of use, scrap HS2 and leave the EU, those 3 policies are good enough to get my vote, i'll be voting UKIP in may.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"I'll consider all possibilities before voting. Often don't know till just before I vote anyway. But I'd rather stick rusty needles through my eyeballs than vote Tory/UKIP.

this..

and i don't even have a needle so would buy one..

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"UKIPs manifesto will be released in April (the same month as the tories say they will release theirs). I don't need to see it though, as UKIP have said they will keep the Nhs free at the point of use, scrap HS2 and leave the EU, those 3 policies are good enough to get my vote, i'll be voting UKIP in may. "

April the 1st..

one may assume..

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

on HS2 i agree, thought Farage was saying last year he wants the insurance companies and others to take over or have a part involvement in the NHS..

i could be wrong on the details..

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

April the 1st..

one may assume..

Sorry i'm not aware of the exact date of the release of the tory manifesto in April, but you are correct it could be April 1st.

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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago

Bristol

No need to wait until April! Here are those UKIP policies in full, as published by Private Eye:

1. Smoking to be allowed in pubs.

2. Waxed jackets to be made mandatory.

3. Chaps not obliged to help with the washing up.

4. VAT on beards.

5. Massive investment in golf club construction.

6. Driving gloves to be worn in cars at all times.

7. Bring back Robertson's Golly on marmalade jars.

8. Police permitted to give young offenders a clip round the ear.

9. Black and white TV to return.

10. Johnny foreigner to get marching orders .... whoops.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

There is nothing secret about how the cabinet is chosen. The EU commision is elected by secret ballot by those in Brussels.

There's no point in discussing the European commission with you since you've no idea how they are nominated or who votes on them. Each commissioner is nominated by a democratically elected sovereign government. Each commissioner is subject to public re_iew by MEPs. The commission as a whole must be voted on by the MEPs publicly in the European parliament. The president of the commission has to be voted for by a majority of MEPs in a public vote.

Some UKIP followers are quite happy to trot out the old lies about the auditors not signing off the accounts when it suits them, then when they find out it's untrue they trot out the old 5th pillar rubbish.

You keep coming up with half truths and outright untruths because you're following UKIP central office's propaganda stream without thinking for yourself or doing any homework to find out the truth about how things work. That's just daft.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Of course if meps are too lazy to vote when elected that would make it less democratic.

Assume you are talking about UKIP mep's there?

So they fail to represent anything more than lazy political thinking, lies and their ability to collect expenses. Can't wait for more of that sort of positive political dynamism to influence us in the UK, (NOT)

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"No need to wait until April! Here are those UKIP policies in full, as published by Private Eye:

1. Smoking to be allowed in pubs.

2. Waxed jackets to be made mandatory.

3. Chaps not obliged to help with the washing up.

4. VAT on beards.

5. Massive investment in golf club construction.

6. Driving gloves to be worn in cars at all times.

7. Bring back Robertson's Golly on marmalade jars.

8. Police permitted to give young offenders a clip round the ear.

9. Black and white TV to return.

10. Johnny foreigner to get marching orders .... whoops.

"
smoking to be allowed in pubs ? in that case ime def voting ukip and I don't mind unjustly being called a racist fr voting for them

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Of course if meps are too lazy to vote when elected that would make it less democratic.

Assume you are talking about UKIP mep's there?

Incidentally, which bit of the vote against the illegal ivory trade would hand more power to Brussels? Six out of the 14 votes in the European parliament against combating the illegal ivory trade came from Ukip – including Nigel Farage

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"There is nothing secret about how the cabinet is chosen. The EU commision is elected by secret ballot by those in Brussels.

still he could get even more silly by voting for labour or the tories

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

April the 1st..

one may assume..

Sorry i'm not aware of the exact date of the release of the tory manifesto in April, but you are correct it could be April 1st.

UKIP said theirs would be ready for their conference. They couldn't manage to keep that promise.

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"There is nothing secret about how the cabinet is chosen. The EU commision is elected by secret ballot by those in Brussels.

You really do need to take a look at a few facts yourself. The EU commision is elected by meps in a secret ballot, anyone who knows anythng about the EU knows that to be true and factual. It does'nt matter how you try to spin it, the commision is elected by secret ballot, FACT.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

April the 1st..

one may assume..

Sorry i'm not aware of the exact date of the release of the tory manifesto in April, but you are correct it could be April 1st.

and not a hair between them..

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"Of course if meps are too lazy to vote when elected that would make it less democratic.

Assume you are talking about UKIP mep's there?

Thats how you see it. The way i see it is taking a principled stand against the EU, and refusing to vote on any matter that would hand more power to the european parliament. I'm more than happy with the UKIP meps performance in europe, especially exposing Junker for his tax evasion scams in his home country of Luxembourg.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Of course if meps are too lazy to vote when elected that would make it less democratic.

Assume you are talking about UKIP mep's there?

There you go again following the party line without a moment's thought for the truth. And you've been through this loads of time on here before. Now that would be the corporate tax avoidance scheme wouldn't it? The one that benefited major companies, not Junker? The one that, being avoidance, was legal as opposed to evasion that's illegal.

Now I don't like corporate tax avoidance and if you'd stuck to the truth I'd have been with you about that, but the good old UKIP central office line on Europe never involves the truth.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Of course if meps are too lazy to vote when elected that would make it less democratic.

Assume you are talking about UKIP mep's there?

So what about their principled stand against endangered species? How was that justified?

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

surely any members of any party attending eg; the European Parliament and not taking part in all aspects of the business of that should have their expenses cut for partial performance..?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"There is nothing secret about how the cabinet is chosen. The EU commision is elected by secret ballot by those in Brussels.

Keep making it up. One day by typing random allegations you may come up with a fact, but not so far.

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"Of course if meps are too lazy to vote when elected that would make it less democratic.

Assume you are talking about UKIP mep's there?

Now I don't like corporate tax avoidance and if you'd stuck to the truth I'd have been with you about that, but the good old UKIP central office line on Europe never involves the truth."

Tax evasion/tax avoidence both equally as bad as each other in my book, but good to see where your priorities lie and that you defend Junckers actions on it. Think that says more about you than it does me.

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"surely any members of any party attending eg; the European Parliament and not taking part in all aspects of the business of that should have their expenses cut for partial performance..?"

Don't like the way the EU works, then vote to leave if there is a in/out referendum in 2017 if the tories win in may.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Of course if meps are too lazy to vote when elected that would make it less democratic.

Assume you are talking about UKIP mep's there?

Now I don't like corporate tax avoidance and if you'd stuck to the truth I'd have been with you about that, but the good old UKIP central office line on Europe never involves the truth.

Yep, it says I know the difference between thinks that are legal and illegal. That you can't get the facts right says a lot.

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"surely any members of any party attending eg; the European Parliament and not taking part in all aspects of the business of that should have their expenses cut for partial performance..?"

Incidently Farages record on voting in the EU parliament was better than Nick Cleggs voting record in the house of commons upto march 2014. So should MP's also have their expenses/salary cut for partial performance?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"surely any members of any party attending eg; the European Parliament and not taking part in all aspects of the business of that should have their expenses cut for partial performance..?

Yep

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

"Um united kingdom

???

Parliament has MPs represnting the whole of the UK not just England

Oh got ya now

Yes the oppressive English parliament that turned a third of the world pink. Sold slaves. Forced Christianity on their newy stolen territories

I do wonder what makes us want separate debating places

Yes i do know

I've actually been on many a campaign trail

Have you?

Are you talking about pre-1707 or post-1707? Because if it's post, then there hasn't been an English parliament in that 308-year period.

Realistically and statistically the British government has been predominantly English quite rightly so because there are more English than Welsh Irish and Scottish

The fact that welsh Scottish and Irish rulers had their powers stolen by the English reflects this situation"

I thought it was King James VI of Scotland, coming down to England to become King James I of England that started the move towards a United Kingdom.

The reality is that the United Kingdom was always more a Scottish idea and creation than an English one.

(closed, thread got too big)

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