FabSwingers.com forum: Cliff Richard

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Saw the police and BBC have named and shamed him again - though don't know the details of the further allegations.

Should he be named and shamed? Surely the matter should be kept quiet until someone has been tried and convicted? Michael le Vell, William Roach and others went through the mill before being found not guilty - and even then many will say "no smoke without fire"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

They're probably extremely pissed off for getting their wrists slapped over leaking details of the raid on his house to the BBC.

It was only yesterday that I was reading that an independent report had concluded that the Police should not have released highly confidential details to the BBC about the planned search of his home.

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By (user no longer on site)
Forum Mod
over a year ago

I think it's disgusting that the BBC and the police can make this information public

Are they digging further because they are each getting their arses kicked for collaborating prior to his house being searched?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Congratulations, a Cliff Richard thread

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

I'm not sure where I stand on this and I'm glad it's not up to me to decide but I can see a case for anonymity until guilt is proved.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Innocent until proven guilty. This kind of thing can destroy lives not just the alleged victims but that of the accused. Even if charges are never bought and the innocent are left alone the stigma lives on and blights their lives. Anyone can be arrested for anything at any time. Smoke without fire argument is offensive and unhelpful.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Cliff is abit bored about it, no doubt a woman getting payed of a news paper to say it lol.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

"Cliff is abit bored about it, no doubt a woman getting payed of a news paper to say it lol."

The original allegation concerned young boys.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I'm not sure where I stand on this and I'm glad it's not up to me to decide but I can see a case for anonymity until guilt is proved."

Agreed ^^

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I'm not sure where I stand on this and I'm glad it's not up to me to decide but I can see a case for anonymity until guilt is proved."

yep, this. gotta be this way, however much our gossip genes want it otherwise.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Cliff is abit bored about it, no doubt a woman getting payed of a news paper to say it lol.

The original allegation concerned young boys."
Yes if it was, he would be looked up by now.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yorkshire police are dragging this up time and time again to deflect that they are doing nothing about the "grooming" issues... BBC is helping their buddies along. It takes The Times to expose the police, authorities and the BBC yet again but (the big But) nothing happens... Sack 90% of Yorkshire coppers - simplez

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Innocent until proven guilty. This kind of thing can destroy lives not just the alleged victims but that of the accused. Even if charges are never bought and the innocent are left alone the stigma lives on and blights their lives. Anyone can be arrested for anything at any time. Smoke without fire argument is offensive and unhelpful. "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The police have said there have been further allegations. I believe the tactic they use is to make some information to come out, so anyone else who has been abused has time to come forward and they can investigate those as well.

To be fair, I always thought Cliff was gay, but never thought he was a peado. I have always found him very very creepy thats for sure.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Cliff is abit bored about it, no doubt a woman getting payed of a news paper to say it lol.

The original allegation concerned young boys."

It was a single boy, not boys

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Cliff is abit bored about it, no doubt a woman getting payed of a news paper to say it lol.

The original allegation concerned young boys.

It was a single boy, not boys

Thats OK then. Everyone makes mistakes!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Cliff is abit bored about it, no doubt a woman getting payed of a news paper to say it lol.

The original allegation concerned young boys.

It was a single boy, not boys

Thats OK then. Everyone makes mistakes! "

I was referring to the allegation not saying that made it ok. If people are going to attack someone's character then they should at least stick to the facts. It's only fair.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

About 15 years ago a lady friend told me that Cliff Richard was told in no uncertain terms to get the best solicitors/barristers he can afford or find God this was apparently around to his sudden collapse of his relationship to marry Sue Barker so he found God and has appeared as a saintly person....

Who else has heard the stories and rumours from years back...

He was very involved around church matters in an area called Stanmore in NW London prior to 2000 and that's a fact as used to know the church and pastor there !

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"About 15 years ago a lady friend told me that Cliff Richard was told in no uncertain terms to get the best solicitors/barristers he can afford or find God this was apparently around to his sudden collapse of his relationship to marry Sue Barker so he found God and has appeared as a saintly person....

Who else has heard the stories and rumours from years back...

He was very involved around church matters in an area called Stanmore in NW London prior to 2000 and that's a fact as used to know the church and pastor there !"

They are just that though, rumours and stories.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I do wonder why he changed his nationality to Barbadian... after all Barbados has no extradition treaty with the UK

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

There have been rumours about Sir Cliff going around for over 20 years although they didn't involve boys.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

surely its about the perception of those who will deem him 'shamed'..

the narrow minded, the haters and gloater's who thrive on other people's misfortunes maybe..

until anyone is convicted by due process they have the right to be seen as innocent..

funny that those who would demand that principle for them and their own are happy to throw it away when it suits..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Now suggesting Johnny Savill (older brother) was at it at St George's hospital in Tooting

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I do wonder why he changed his nationality to Barbadian... after all Barbados has no extradition treaty with the UK

"
is it a tax haven?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

surely its about the perception of those who will deem him 'shamed'..

the narrow minded, the haters and gloater's who thrive on other people's misfortunes maybe..

until anyone is convicted by due process they have the right to be seen as innocent..

funny that those who would demand that principle for them and their own are happy to throw it away when it suits.."
Innocent until proved otherwise.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I do wonder why he changed his nationality to Barbadian... after all Barbados has no extradition treaty with the UK

is it a tax haven?

yes it is, and many wealthy brits have homes there, Cilla Black & Simon Cowell for example.

As i understand it Cliff Richard declared himself as a non-dom around 10 years ago, and has been based in Barbados for about 15 years.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

There is a huge difference between non Dom and taking a new nationality

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I'm not sure where I stand on this and I'm glad it's not up to me to decide but I can see a case for anonymity until guilt is proved."
.

I totally disagree.

If Jimmy saville had that rule applied or several others they probably would still remain innocent.

The fact being the first case which caught the media he escaped prosecution but hundreds of others who he had abused saw the court case and came forward as well, and without knowing they probably would never have come forward.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I have never liked him, either as a singer or a person. However, I do not think it right that any person's name should be released publicly prior to a conviction. Unfortunately, mud sticks.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

"I'm not sure where I stand on this and I'm glad it's not up to me to decide but I can see a case for anonymity until guilt is proved..

I totally disagree.

If Jimmy saville had that rule applied or several others they probably would still remain innocent.

That's why I said I'm not sure where I stand on it. I can see a case for anonymity but I wouldn't want to have to decide whether to grant it

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

"Cliff is abit bored about it, no doubt a woman getting payed of a news paper to say it lol.

The original allegation concerned young boys.

It was a single boy, not boys

Thats OK then. Everyone makes mistakes!

I was referring to the allegation not saying that made it ok. If people are going to attack someone's character then they should at least stick to the facts. It's only fair."

I wasn't attacking his character

I used an extra "s"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I'm not sure where I stand on this and I'm glad it's not up to me to decide but I can see a case for anonymity until guilt is proved..

I totally disagree.

If Jimmy saville had that rule applied or several others they probably would still remain innocent.

That's why I said I'm not sure where I stand on it. I can see a case for anonymity but I wouldn't want to have to decide whether to grant it

"
.

I don't see a problem with the system as it stands.

If your innocent you'll get found innocent if your guilty hopefully you'll get found guilty.

The no smoke without fire problem, is the fault of the people not the system

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Do you remember Mathew Kelly he was not charged but it's life was over no more TV deals. Not just the effect it had on him but his family. Cliff is lucky no family to be put through the mill. When this is put in the public domain it's often forgotten how much there kids can be affected. How ever is Britten today it's more like guilty till you can prove your in-assent. And then still guilty in the eyes of others that think they know better than the law. But that's good for politicians as they can defect attention from what there up to. Am I be coming sinacal in my old age ???

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

"I'm not sure where I stand on this and I'm glad it's not up to me to decide but I can see a case for anonymity until guilt is proved..

I totally disagree.

If Jimmy saville had that rule applied or several others they probably would still remain innocent.

That's why I said I'm not sure where I stand on it. I can see a case for anonymity but I wouldn't want to have to decide whether to grant it

I don't see a problem with the system as it stands.

If your innocent you'll get found innocent if your guilty hopefully you'll get found guilty.

The no smoke without fire problem, is the fault of the people not the system"

I agree but it's the people we have to live amongst. I see a huge problem with the system as it is but I can also see that naming somebody who has had accusations made against them might make others come forward. However many complaints had already been made against JS the system as it is stinks.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The clues were always there, in his 1981 hit wired for sound cliff makes an agonising plea for help with the confession that he likes 'small speakers'.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Do you remember Mathew Kelly he was not charged but it's life was over no more TV deals. Not just the effect it had on him but his family. Cliff is lucky no family to be put through the mill. When this is put in the public domain it's often forgotten how much there kids can be affected. How ever is Britten today it's more like guilty till you can prove your in-assent. And then still guilty in the eyes of others that think they know better than the law. But that's good for politicians as they can defect attention from what there up to. Am I be coming sinacal in my old age ??? "
Mathew Kelly had an underaged boy living at his house in Sri Lanka. Don't you think there is a case to answer there?

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Personally, I would like to see a system where people cannot be named prior to, or during, trial - except for very exceptional circumstances, where the police would have to apply to the courts for dispensation to publicise for further information. As for the serial offenders like (allegedly) Savile, lots of complaints were made, yet weren't acted on or referred to the correct authorities.

The naming and shaming can destroy lives: John Leslie lost a very lucrative career on the back of rumour. Yet ultimately a police investigation decided he had no case to answer. Innocent in the eyes of the law but guilty in the eyes of many, even though we don't know any details.

The likes of Savile seem to have got away with a lot due to apathy and indifference. The same has happened in Rotherham. Surely the real answer to obtaining justice lies not in naming people when they may be innocent but ensuring that thorough and proper investigations are carried out through the proper channels?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Personally, I would like to see a system where people cannot be named prior to, or during, trial - except for very exceptional circumstances, where the police would have to apply to the courts for dispensation to publicise for further information. As for the serial offenders like (allegedly) Savile, lots of complaints were made, yet weren't acted on or referred to the correct authorities.

spot on. nailed it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Never seen that in the press it was all to do with another man who was the manager of the bay city rollers. A man mr Kelly was found never to even met in his life. See what innuendo can do.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Never seen that in the press it was all to do with another man who was the manager of the bay city rollers. A man mr Kelly was found never to even met in his life. See what innuendo can do.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Do you remember Mathew Kelly he was not charged but it's life was over no more TV deals. Not just the effect it had on him but his family. Cliff is lucky no family to be put through the mill. When this is put in the public domain it's often forgotten how much there kids can be affected. How ever is Britten today it's more like guilty till you can prove your in-assent. And then still guilty in the eyes of others that think they know better than the law. But that's good for politicians as they can defect attention from what there up to. Am I be coming sinacal in my old age ??? Mathew Kelly had an underaged boy living at his house in Sri Lanka. Don't you think there is a case to answer there? "

I know it was a while back but was it not a rented house and the boy worked as a live in domestic employed by the owner of the house.

I could be wrong on that, my recollection of the case isnt all that good.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Nope that was not it. It's was sex party and one young lad or girl said one man looked like Kelly. Took over a year to investigate but in that time the press did story on Kelly ( the sun ) Kelly lost his job and friends " so called " his kids had to move school. Then the case was dropped when there was no evidence and the house of the ex bay city roller manager was readied and photos were found and the real man was then charged. Poor Kelly lost everything. Just shows you the power of the press. They can make you see things that are not there. I remember a time you got facts and made up your own mind now the press tells us what they think. Facts seem like they don't matter any more. Case in point look at the NEWS OF THE WORLD.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As far as I am aware, Kelly owned the house in Sri Lanka and had a 14 yr old boy living there, it was claimed the boy was a cleaner. I still think there is a case to answer

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I have never liked him, either as a singer or a person. However, I do not think it right that any person's name should be released publicly prior to a conviction. Unfortunately, mud sticks."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I do wonder why he changed his nationality to Barbadian... after all Barbados has no extradition treaty with the UK

is it a tax haven?

yes it is, and many wealthy brits have homes there, Cilla Black & Simon Cowell for example.

As i understand it Cliff Richard declared himself as a non-dom around 10 years ago, and has been based in Barbados for about 15 years."
I thought he was resident in Portugal ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You know more than me then or just read other papers lo

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You know more than me then or just read other papers lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

For someone who's had hits in every decade for the last 140 years there's remarkably few you can make paedophile puns with:

Bummer holiday

The young bums

Congratul-rape-ions

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"For someone who's had hits in every decade for the last 140 years there's remarkably few you can make paedophile puns with:

Bummer holiday

The young bums

Congratul-rape-ions"

Good job then that Frank Sinatra turned him down to do a duet of one of Frank's songs.

Come Fly With me.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No need for puns - The Young Ones and Daddy's Home

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Boy tossed off cliff turned out to be a report of coastal shenanigans gone wrong.

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By *ere-for-my-convenienceWoman
over a year ago

West Midlands

Whatever happened to innocent until proved guilty

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By *asokittyWoman
over a year ago

Nr Worksop

"They're probably extremely pissed off for getting their wrists slapped over leaking details of the raid on his house to the BBC.

It was only yesterday that I was reading that an independent report had concluded that the Police should not have released highly confidential details to the BBC about the planned search of his home."

They didn't need a report to conclude that!

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Whatever happened to innocent until proved guilty"

Unfortunately this is what goes with press reporting and making things public before putting them to the test in a court of law (see the sort of jokes being made by some, above): there was a very famous case in America in the 1950s, where Dr Sam Sheppard (hope I have the spelling of his surname right) was convicted of killing his wife. A big part of his conviction was the pre-trial publicity whipped up by the press on the assumption of his guilt. It took ten years after his conviction for his lawyer, F Lee Bailey, to secure his release as the Supreme Court quashed his conviction. Sadly, not only had he lost his wife, he had lost his medical career too, as well as ten years of freedom. A broken man, he died an alcoholic, a parody of a life where he earned a living wrestling.

All because the press decided pre-trial that he was guilty.

If we don't learn from the past, we are condemned to repeat the same mistakes.

In a final, sad footnote to the case, his son spent many years trying to prove his father's innocence and found that a bloodstain on a door of the house had DNA of a convicted rapist and killer (his mother had been raped and killed). Sadly, this DNA evidence only came to light after his father's death.

Any of us could end up in a similar position: there was a famous case close to where I live. One Bank Holiday, a little girl was raped and killed at Clumber Park. Very publicly, a local man called Neville Lee was named in the press by the police. Though never taken to trial, he was viewed in a very suspicious light by locals and his life made absolute hell. It was only several years later that the real killer was brought to justice. Funnily enough without the blaze of publicity that had surrounded the original questioning of Neville Lee.

So far as I can see, such problems are inevitable when the press is used by the police

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

i seem to remember reading that the complete farce and witch hunt if a search negated any chance of a fair trial. is it possible they are pushing for any kind of conviction to prevent millions of tax payers money being paid in compensation? hardly. they are accountable to no one ut seems.

bbc chasing a possible sex offender? how many are on charges for assisting mr saville? esther rantzen bleats on about the sleazebag then gets honours for telling kids someone is there for them. why the hell did she not expose him?

the powers that be are useless.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"i seem to remember reading that the complete farce and witch hunt if a search negated any chance of a fair trial. is it possible they are pushing for any kind of conviction to prevent millions of tax payers money being paid in compensation? hardly. they are accountable to no one ut seems.

the powers that be are useless.

She didn't expose him because it was "classier not to", those are her own words

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Whatever happened to innocent until proved guilty"

Outmoded concept

No entertainment value for the great washed.

ISIS have proved that public executions are great for ratings

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