Join us FREE, we're FREE to use
Web's largest swingers site since 2006.
Already registered?
Login here
Join us FREE, we're FREE to use
Web's largest swingers site since 2006.
Already registered?
Login here
 | Back to forum list |
| Back to The Lounge |
| Jump to newest |  |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
 | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Its all about the right hand shakes, MPs just voted themselves an 11 percent pay rise, while the rest are told to tighten our belts it will help the recovery." 
Too right, most of us been told to "tighten our belts".
Also found it hiliarious (not in a good way) that MP voted and gave themselves an 11% rise, aye very good, when most of will get a rise of about 2/3% at best. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
 | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"and the fat cats vote tory so they know the money will keep rolling in while they steal from the little ppl" The rich get richer and the poor are getting poorer. This country really is unbelievable rewarding fat cats with HUGE bonuses when most of us Only get a yearly bonus when minus tax ain't worth much. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"What I object to is MPs limiting public sector pay rises whilst awarding themselves a whopping 11% pay rise. "
Don't surprise me with MP, always talking about cuts etc, then reward themselves with 11%.
that could have been put to the NHS, which is at bursting point, not enough doctors/nurses etc. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Life is "unfair". What private companies pay their CEO's is their business: good for them. . " | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"What I object to is MPs limiting public sector pay rises whilst awarding themselves a whopping 11% pay rise.
Don't surprise me with MP, always talking about cuts etc, then reward themselves with 11%.
that could have been put to the NHS, which is at bursting point, not enough doctors/nurses etc."Infacr if anyone deserves a pay rise is doctors/nurses/surgeons etc. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Life is "unfair". What private companies pay their CEO's is their business: good for them. What I object to is MPs limiting public sector pay rises whilst awarding themselves a whopping 11% pay rise. " Yep! This
I understand the reward system in the private sector - companies, whether banks, airlines, supermarkets, bookies, car manufacturers, IT or tech related - all reward based on company profit and how successful the company has been.
Banks are just an easy target for criticism and the press rarely report on the reward structure of other sectors.
Apart from the chief execs and senior leadership the majority of bank staff get nowhere near the amounts touted by the press.
The private sector is entitled to pay what it deems necessary to retain talent and reward performance.
The public sector should be the same.
It isn't. Unless of course you're an MP.
A | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"If this were a thread about someone cheating the benefits system out of the price of a cup of tea, all hell would have broken loose on it. " | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"If this were a thread about someone cheating the benefits system out of the price of a cup of tea, all hell would have broken loose on it.
"You damn right it would have been It's ok to get £7mill in bonus, but don't be a benefit cheat with umpteen kids | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Life is "unfair". What private companies pay their CEO's is their business: good for them. What I object to is MPs limiting public sector pay rises whilst awarding themselves a whopping 11% pay rise. Yep! This
I understand the reward system in the private sector - companies, whether banks, airlines, supermarkets, bookies, car manufacturers, IT or tech related - all reward based on company profit and how successful the company has been.
Banks are just an easy target for criticism and the press rarely report on the reward structure of other sectors.
Apart from the chief execs and senior leadership the majority of bank staff get nowhere near the amounts touted by the press.
The private sector is entitled to pay what it deems necessary to retain talent and reward performance.
The public sector should be the same.
It isn't. Unless of course you're an MP.
A" There are huge sections of the public sector where it would be preferable to pay people more. Take tax, for example. If this was your area of expertise would you choose to go and work for HMRC where you will be paid considerably less, get slagged off regularly in the press as bureaucratic/pen pusher/lazy public sector worker, while the department you work in has probably been cut by in excess of 50%, but the workload and targets are ever increasing.
Or would you go and put your skills to use with one of the firms and be very well rewarded helping companies minimise their tax bills? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Just read this article recently. Found it shocking/appaling that a chief executive from a bank is getting this in "pay and perks". Most of us would only dream about this. But sounds more like a lotto win. I thought the government was meant to be cutting down in all these big bonuses for bank bosses. I defo need to change jobs." . These bonuses are for a very small number of directors who will have exceptional talent , otherwise they would not be a director of a FTSE 100 company . In addition the bonus is probably linked to a performance package and will have to be approved by shareholders at the AGM. If the shareholders are unhappy with a companies perfornance they would not approve it. My interest is in how the company performs , what dividend it will pay and the movement in share price over time . These factors are far more important than the directors pay. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" These bonuses are for a very small number of directors who will have exceptional talent , otherwise they would not be a director of a FTSE 100 company " This 'because the are exceptional and worth it' mantra is of course complete cobblers. If they are 'worth it' so are the teachers who taught them in the first place, the nurses who keep them alive when they are ill and the doctors who operate when their 'so important talents' are about to expire. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" These bonuses are for a very small number of directors who will have exceptional talent , otherwise they would not be a director of a FTSE 100 company This 'because the are exceptional and worth it' mantra is of course complete cobblers. If they are 'worth it' so are the teachers who taught them in the first place, the nurses who keep them alive when they are ill and the doctors who operate when their 'so important talents' are about to expire. " . The only problem is that it is feasible to pay a high salary to one or two exceptional people , when a couple of million employees are involved it is a completely different concept and much more costly . | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" These bonuses are for a very small number of directors who will have exceptional talent , otherwise they would not be a director of a FTSE 100 company This 'because the are exceptional and worth it' mantra is of course complete cobblers. If they are 'worth it' so are the teachers who taught them in the first place, the nurses who keep them alive when they are ill and the doctors who operate when their 'so important talents' are about to expire. " | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" These bonuses are for a very small number of directors who will have exceptional talent , otherwise they would not be a director of a FTSE 100 company This 'because the are exceptional and worth it' mantra is of course complete cobblers. If they are 'worth it' so are the teachers who taught them in the first place, the nurses who keep them alive when they are ill and the doctors who operate when their 'so important talents' are about to expire. . The only problem is that it is feasible to pay a high salary to one or two exceptional people , when a couple of million employees are involved it is a completely different concept and much more costly . " This is where I get concerned, especially when the health benefits we all enjoy are so easily dismissed. For me it incomes across as, you have served your purpose and are no longer required. We have perfected our organ transplant skills. Our medical procedures and medicines etc are now at the stage we no longer need as many living patients for trails. We have stem cells and have nearly/or perfected laboratory grown body parts. Those that made themselves available for the advancement of mankind's health, thanks for your invaluable help but if you can't afford the treatment we are very sorry but you most understand, things cost money !  | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Life is "unfair". What private companies pay their CEO's is their business: good for them. What I object to is MPs limiting public sector pay rises whilst awarding themselves a whopping 11% pay rise. " MPs salaries are set by an independent tribunal; Not by themselves. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Just read this article recently. Found it shocking/appaling that a chief executive from a bank is getting this in "pay and perks"." It's only shocking to those with sub - zero economic sense.  | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Jealousy and envy are particularly negative personality traits. Why are most of the posts angry at the news? For our country to be successful we need most people to also want to get themselves into such positions and be equally rewarded. We have become a society fat with complacency. Where even those with a poor education and no skills expect to be able to have and enjoy life's luxuries. One thing is correct, the world has very much changed over the last few decades and that is because the economy has become globalised. As a nation, we need to become more aspirational, better educated and highly skilled if we want to have more money and become more financially secure." great post | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Not wanting to start an argument but would anyone here honestly turn it down,I for one wouldn't. " THIS ^ I like how sanctimonious threads like these get by the same people WHO WOULDN'T TURN IT DOWN. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Not wanting to start an argument but would anyone here honestly turn it down,I for one wouldn't. THIS ^ I like how sanctimonious threads like these get by the same people WHO WOULDN'T TURN IT DOWN. " Not denying that NO ONE would turn it down. If it sounds like jealousy, fair enough, it's not that when there's threads about benefit cheats, that seems to rattle people's cages. I'm trying to get how do these banks get to that figure for a bonus, sometimes even if the bank has made a LOSS, they can somehow still dish out bonuses. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Not wanting to start an argument but would anyone here honestly turn it down,I for one wouldn't. THIS ^ I like how sanctimonious threads like these get by the same people WHO WOULDN'T TURN IT DOWN. Not denying that NO ONE would turn it down. If it sounds like jealousy, fair enough, it's not that when there's threads about benefit cheats, that seems to rattle people's cages. I'm trying to get how do these banks get to that figure for a bonus, sometimes even if the bank has made a LOSS, they can somehow still dish out bonuses." And I'd say more relevant to those banks bailed out by the tax payer. Those that were/are self sufficient can as far as I'm concerned determine their own reward structure. A | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Not wanting to start an argument but would anyone here honestly turn it down,I for one wouldn't. THIS ^ I like how sanctimonious threads like these get by the same people WHO WOULDN'T TURN IT DOWN. " . Judging ones own morality by others is not something new. Al Capone accused his detractors from his prison cell that there'd have done the same as him in his position. Maybe it helped with his conscience | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Life is "unfair". What private companies pay their CEO's is their business: good for them. What I object to is MPs limiting public sector pay rises whilst awarding themselves a whopping 11% pay rise. " this.. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Life is "unfair". What private companies pay their CEO's is their business: good for them. What I object to is MPs limiting public sector pay rises whilst awarding themselves a whopping 11% pay rise. MPs salaries are set by an independent tribunal; Not by themselves." Now, now. Don't spoil a good rant thread by introducing facts. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Life is "unfair". What private companies pay their CEO's is their business: good for them. What I object to is MPs limiting public sector pay rises whilst awarding themselves a whopping 11% pay rise. MPs salaries are set by an independent tribunal; Not by themselves. Now, now. Don't spoil a good rant thread by introducing facts." IPSA Chair: Professor Sir Ian Kennedy.[4] IPSA Chief Executive: Marcial Boo.[5] IPSA Board members: Sir Neil Butterfield, Elizabeth Padmore, Anne Whitaker, Professor Tony Wright.[6] Former IPSA Board members: Rt Hon Scott Baker, Ken Olisa, Jackie Ballard, Professor Isobel Sharp.[7] The people who run the IPSA.... Hardly independent nearly all of them are friends or former colleagues | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Jealousy and envy are particularly negative personality traits. Why are most of the posts angry at the news? For our country to be successful we need most people to also want to get themselves into such positions and be equally rewarded. We have become a society fat with complacency. Where even those with a poor education and no skills expect to be able to have and enjoy life's luxuries. One thing is correct, the world has very much changed over the last few decades and that is because the economy has become globalised. As a nation, we need to become more aspirational, better educated and highly skilled if we want to have more money and become more financially secure." Aye, very good, if this was about benefit cheats who get say £35,000 per year I bet you would kick up almighty hell, but hey, £7.4M bonus, aye, everyone is fine with that. Even the "benefit" cheats who get say £35,000 per year, it would take them 200 years to get anywhere near that. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Life is "unfair". What private companies pay their CEO's is their business: good for them. What I object to is MPs limiting public sector pay rises whilst awarding themselves a whopping 11% pay rise. MPs salaries are set by an independent tribunal; Not by themselves." yes they are and the same MP's also decided that other public sector workers like themselves were not worthy of having an independent body or that for those who do still have they the MP's can still over ride any decision set.. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Jealousy and envy are particularly negative personality traits. Why are most of the posts angry at the news? For our country to be successful we need most people to also want to get themselves into such positions and be equally rewarded. We have become a society fat with complacency. Where even those with a poor education and no skills expect to be able to have and enjoy life's luxuries. One thing is correct, the world has very much changed over the last few decades and that is because the economy has become globalised. As a nation, we need to become more aspirational, better educated and highly skilled if we want to have more money and become more financially secure. Aye, very good, if this was about benefit cheats who get say £35,000 per year I bet you would kick up almighty hell, but hey, £7.4M bonus, aye, everyone is fine with that. Even the "benefit" cheats who get say £35,000 per year, it would take them 200 years to get anywhere near that. " There is one very big difference . We are entitled to expect tax payers money to be spent in a responsible matter. The bonus referred to is by a PLC and must be approved by the shareholders . In addition rigorous performance measures must be achieved . The bonus referred to is a very rare event ? Why should we worry about someone elses pay. Ask yourself if you have the necessary skills to chair a PLC. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I thought the government was meant to be cutting down in all these big bonuses for bank bosses." Where did you get that idea from? The government have used OUR tax money to fight the EU over the bankers bonuses being capped and are going to use OUR money again coz they lost. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"The tax man will be happy with his cut" as if! Anyone getting that kind of money,pays good money to make sure tax man doesn't get a sniff of it,office cleaner will pay more tax | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Interesting how a Proffesional at the supposed top of his profession getting a bonus of 7.4million can cause an outrage! Yet a footballer at 18-19yrs old will get a similar pay deal on 2-3-4-5 x's the weekly wage of 99% of the rest of the working population and i dont see the dramatic accusations of Fat cat football players not being "worth it" Our eco is built of greed and want!! If we didnt have these desires we would not care or worry about joe's pay packet! As for scroungers making £35k a year ffs i am quitting my job today as after working since 15 i dont make that much!! "Good post | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"The tax man will be happy with his cutas if! Anyone getting that kind of money,pays good money to make sure tax man doesn't get a sniff of it,office cleaner will pay more tax" I seriously doubt that. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Jealousy and envy are particularly negative personality traits. Why are most of the posts angry at the news? For our country to be successful we need most people to also want to get themselves into such positions and be equally rewarded. We have become a society fat with complacency. Where even those with a poor education and no skills expect to be able to have and enjoy life's luxuries. One thing is correct, the world has very much changed over the last few decades and that is because the economy has become globalised. As a nation, we need to become more aspirational, better educated and highly skilled if we want to have more money and become more financially secure. Aye, very good, if this was about benefit cheats who get say £35,000 per year I bet you would kick up almighty hell, but hey, £7.4M bonus, aye, everyone is fine with that. Even the "benefit" cheats who get say £35,000 per year, it would take them 200 years to get anywhere near that. There is one very big difference . We are entitled to expect tax payers money to be spent in a responsible matter. The bonus referred to is by a PLC and must be approved by the shareholders . In addition rigorous performance measures must be achieved . The bonus referred to is a very rare event ? Why should we worry about someone elses pay. Ask yourself if you have the necessary skills to chair a PLC. " .rigourous performance measures must be achieved!! You are joking aren't you?. Profits are down 18% at hsbc | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"The tax man will be happy with his cutas if! Anyone getting that kind of money,pays good money to make sure tax man doesn't get a sniff of it,office cleaner will pay more tax" . I would imagine his tax bill to be around 1 pound. They usually make sure they pay s nominal amount so they can use the phrase "I pay my tax" without being done for slander  | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"The tax take on these bonus' are minimal to the Chancellor....in the grand scheme of things..." . Quite frankly that won't pay income tax on their bonuses. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Jealousy and envy are particularly negative personality traits. Why are most of the posts angry at the news? For our country to be successful we need most people to also want to get themselves into such positions and be equally rewarded. We have become a society fat with complacency. Where even those with a poor education and no skills expect to be able to have and enjoy life's luxuries. One thing is correct, the world has very much changed over the last few decades and that is because the economy has become globalised. As a nation, we need to become more aspirational, better educated and highly skilled if we want to have more money and become more financially secure. Aye, very good, if this was about benefit cheats who get say £35,000 per year I bet you would kick up almighty hell, but hey, £7.4M bonus, aye, everyone is fine with that. Even the "benefit" cheats who get say £35,000 per year, it would take them 200 years to get anywhere near that. There is one very big difference . We are entitled to expect tax payers money to be spent in a responsible matter. The bonus referred to is by a PLC and must be approved by the shareholders . In addition rigorous performance measures must be achieved . The bonus referred to is a very rare event ? Why should we worry about someone elses pay. Ask yourself if you have the necessary skills to chair a PLC. .rigourous performance measures must be achieved!! You are joking aren't you?. Profits are down 18% at hsbc" . The profits would need to be measured against current market conditions and various other measures . | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"The tax man will be happy with his cutas if! Anyone getting that kind of money,pays good money to make sure tax man doesn't get a sniff of it,office cleaner will pay more tax. I would imagine his tax bill to be around 1 pound. They usually make sure they pay s nominal amount so they can use the phrase "I pay my tax" without being done for slander ". They will pay circa £ 3.4 million in tax. How could they possibly avoid paying it ? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"The tax man will be happy with his cutas if! Anyone getting that kind of money,pays good money to make sure tax man doesn't get a sniff of it,office cleaner will pay more tax. I would imagine his tax bill to be around 1 pound. They usually make sure they pay s nominal amount so they can use the phrase "I pay my tax" without being done for slander . They will pay circa £ 3.4 million in tax. How could they possibly avoid paying it ? ". No they won't how do you work that out. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"The tax man will be happy with his cutas if! Anyone getting that kind of money,pays good money to make sure tax man doesn't get a sniff of it,office cleaner will pay more tax. I would imagine his tax bill to be around 1 pound. They usually make sure they pay s nominal amount so they can use the phrase "I pay my tax" without being done for slander . They will pay circa £ 3.4 million in tax. How could they possibly avoid paying it ? .
No they won't how do you work that out.". I took the proposed bonus and multiplied it by 40 % . I am uncertain as to how they could avoid paying tax on this bonus . | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"The tax man will be happy with his cutas if! Anyone getting that kind of money,pays good money to make sure tax man doesn't get a sniff of it,office cleaner will pay more tax. I would imagine his tax bill to be around 1 pound. They usually make sure they pay s nominal amount so they can use the phrase "I pay my tax" without being done for slander . They will pay circa £ 3.4 million in tax. How could they possibly avoid paying it ? .
No they won't how do you work that out."Their wages and bonuses have been splattered all over the media. There is no chance of them avoiding the tax man. They may have some schemes in place to lower the amount but they will pay more tax on this lump than many of us will pay in our lifetime. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
 | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Life is "unfair". What private companies pay their CEO's is their business: good for them. What I object to is MPs limiting public sector pay rises whilst awarding themselves a whopping 11% pay rise. MPs salaries are set by an independent tribunal; Not by themselves. Now, now. Don't spoil a good rant thread by introducing facts. IPSA Chair: Professor Sir Ian Kennedy.[4] IPSA Chief Executive: Marcial Boo.[5] IPSA Board members: Sir Neil Butterfield, Elizabeth Padmore, Anne Whitaker, Professor Tony Wright.[6] Former IPSA Board members: Rt Hon Scott Baker, Ken Olisa, Jackie Ballard, Professor Isobel Sharp.[7] The people who run the IPSA.... Hardly independent nearly all of them are friends or former colleagues" Are you saying they are all corrupt and bribed by MPs to get big pay rises??? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Add 13.8% employers national insurance the employer pays on this ...about another £1m to the government...not all bad ". Good point ..The government will end up receiving more than half the bonus in tax . | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" They will pay circa £ 3.4 million in tax. How could they possibly avoid paying it ? " You seriously think it will be paid as cash through PAYE!!?, not in restricted shares?? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" They will pay circa £ 3.4 million in tax. How could they possibly avoid paying it ? You seriously think it will be paid as cash through PAYE!!?, not in restricted shares??" . If this was the case , the original posters headline is highly misleading . I will assume it is a payment as opposed to an allocation of shares which is a completely different concept anyway. Based on the information currently available there will be a substantial tax payment to HMRC . | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Just read this article recently. Found it shocking/appaling that a chief executive from a bank is getting this in "pay and perks". Most of us would only dream about this. But sounds more like a lotto win. I thought the government was meant to be cutting down in all these big bonuses for bank bosses. I defo need to change jobs." Oh no. The European Union wanted to pit in place limits on bankers bonuses. But Mr Osborne went to the EU and vetoed against the rules withon the UK | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"The tax man will be happy with his cutas if! Anyone getting that kind of money,pays good money to make sure tax man doesn't get a sniff of it,office cleaner will pay more tax. I would imagine his tax bill to be around 1 pound. They usually make sure they pay s nominal amount so they can use the phrase "I pay my tax" without being done for slander . They will pay circa £ 3.4 million in tax. How could they possibly avoid paying it ? .
No they won't how do you work that out.. I took the proposed bonus and multiplied it by 40 % . I am uncertain as to how they could avoid paying tax on this bonus .". Well for starters all the bonus are paid in deferred shares, cash bonus got scrapped by Osbourne. You can put shares straight into your pension without paying any tax whatsoever including national insurance which is neither paid by the employee or the employer. However if you wish to take them sooner there's other means to lower the tax due on them. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"The top 3,000 people in this country pay more in income tax than the bottom 9,000,000 who are actually in the tax paying bracket. Watch taxes rise for all beyond recognition if this attack on high earners continues. The tax has to come from somewhere." . Would this be the same 3000 that's been hiding their money in Swiss bank accounts and not paying any tax at all..... Or a completely different 3000. Seen as taxs for corporations and extremely wealthy people have fallen for the last 40 years and that as you say the tax has to come from somewhere... Where do you think it's come from | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| Post new Message to Thread |
| back to top |  |
