FabSwingers.com forum: Margaret Thatcher V Tony Blair

By *ig bad OP Man
over a year ago

Up North :-)

Who did most good for the uk?

And who did the most damage?

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By *uss PussWoman
over a year ago

east cheshire

**fuss runs away...like a girl cos she is a girl****

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

not opening this thread again....just gonna message notts and tell him his services are required as i doubt there will be any other attempts at humour to see

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By *ast and modifiedCouple
over a year ago

near glasgow

"Who did most good for the uk?

And who did the most damage?

"
none of them and both

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By *ig bad OP Man
over a year ago

Up North :-)

**fuss runs away...like a girl cos she is a girl****"

Ahh but did you run like Thatcher or Blair?

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

Blair did the most good for me, in introducing policies like Minimum Wage, Minimum Income Guarantee for families and pensioners.

Thatcher seemed to have one main aim, and that was to dismantle the Working Class.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

They both done good things, sadly its only the bad ones that we remember

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By *unky monkeyMan
over a year ago

in the night garden

I can't remember a single thing Blair did that was of benefit, he kind of just treaded water and killed Arabs.

Thatcher did sort out a lot of shit but also was responsible for a lot of shit. She didn't kill any Arabs but she did kill lots of Argentinians.

I suppose it boils down to which you prefer dead the most, Arabs or Argentinians? Then you have your answer.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Blair did the most good for me, in introducing policies like Minimum Wage, Minimum Income Guarantee for families and pensioners.

Thatcher seemed to have one main aim, and that was to dismantle the Working Class."

Not so much dismantle the Working Class, but drag them out of rows of terraced housing, remove their flat caps and tell them they can aspire to be something better. Here's a house for a start.

I don't think there was too much wrong with that. She is a humble grocer's daughter herself so it's not as though she didn't understand the working class.

I think both Blair and Thatcher have had an enormous impact in Britain in their respective times in office, and continue to do so. Thatcher not so much as she's a bit doo-lally now, but Blair is involved in an organisation promoting religious harmony across all faiths. That has to be a good thing.

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By *uss PussWoman
over a year ago

east cheshire

**fuss runs away...like a girl cos she is a girl****

Ahh but did you run like Thatcher or Blair?"

Blair....cos i recon he runs like a girl too

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I can't remember a single thing Blair did that was of benefit, he kind of just treaded water and killed Arabs.

Hong Kong handover; Independence for the Bank of England; Belfast Agreement; Human Rights Act; devolution to Scotland and Wales; House of Lords Reform; Minimum wage introduced; creation of Greater London Authority and Mayoralty of London; Civil Partnership Act; Constitutional Reform Act

Thatcher did sort out a lot of shit but also was responsible for a lot of shit. She didn't kill any Arabs but she did kill lots of Argentinians.

First female Prime Minister of the UK. Falklands War; sold council housing to tenants (right to buy); privatisation of many previously government-owned industries; decreased the power of trade unions; negotiation of the UK rebate towards the European Community budget; Sino-British joint declaration; Anglo-Irish Agreement; abolition of GLC; Section 28; the end of the Cold War. (she wasn't responsible for that personally but it was heralded in her term of office)

I suppose it boils down to which you prefer dead the most, Arabs or Argentinians? Then you have your answer."

A very blinkered view of two people who had 11 years and 10 years in office respectively.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This hopefully will be a great debacle......

I lived in London (London Borough of Haringey) when Maggie introduced the POLL TAX, I worked on Regent Street and got caught up in the poll tax riots.

I'm a staunch Union person voted Labour......

Maggie broke the Miners during the strike. and continued on to revolutionize the UK!

Her attitude towards the situation in Northern Ireland remained the same, she allowed the 6 counties to battle it out!

I still believe to this day, both her ignorance and stubborn attitude cost lives!

Tony:

a protestant with routes in Co Donegal did more for the UK, the "Good Friday Agreement" etc.

He's managed to bring stability and normality back too the People of Northern Ireland, he's broke bridges even mending some. whilst at the same time being in power!

Simply there's no comparrison.

Paddy xx

*This post is in no way political*

"Who did most good for the uk?

And who did the most damage?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

*This post is in no way political*"

You gotta be kidding me! How the devil can you post on a thread about two leaders - one Tory, one Labour, state you are a Labour supporter and then duck behind the 'this is not a political post' parapet?

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

Have to agree that on Northern Ireland it took Blair to finally sort it out, Major was laying the foundations but you were never going to get the Catholic Paramilitary groups to trust the Tories completely after Thatcher and co.

Also the 'Glory Years' of North Sea Oil (1980 to 1995) resulted in very little benefit to the ordinary man in this country, I shudder to think how much of this immense wealth was diverted to the lucky few.

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By *unky monkeyMan
over a year ago

in the night garden

"I can't remember a single thing Blair did that was of benefit, he kind of just treaded water and killed Arabs.

Thatcher did sort out a lot of shit but also was responsible for a lot of shit. She didn't kill any Arabs but she did kill lots of Argentinians.

I suppose it boils down to which you prefer dead the most, Arabs or Argentinians? Then you have your answer.

A very blinkered view of two people who had 11 years and 10 years in office respectively."

Phew thanks for all that. I had no idea, here's me thinking they just killed people!

I wasn't being droll or sarcy honest!

Oops I think I may have been droll and sarcy again sorry.

FFS there I go again...

and again..

FFS.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I agree.....

As a UK born citizen (Coventry) and having witnessed both sides I simply answered the OP's question!

I don't sit on a parapet.........

I think my post was for the good work that Tony Blair has achieved in Northern Ireland, but sure you've never lived there or have you/do you?

Anything that stabilizes and permits people to live in harmony and enjoy a normal lifestyle is brilliant!

Religion and Politics cause war! it's historic!

Rant over!!!!!!!!

Paddy xx

*This post is in no way political*

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"As a UK born citizen (Coventry) and having witnessed both sides I simply answered the OP's question!

I think my post was for the good work that Tony Blair has achieved in Northern Ireland, but sure you've never lived there or have you/do you?

You highlighted Blair's triumphs and Thatcher's failings, that made it political as it wasn't objective.

And no, I've never lived in Nrothern Ireland but I don't think the troubles ending are purely down to Blair.

Mo Mowlam played a huge role in the peace process and is recognised as having a direct influence in getting all the parties involved around the table to talk it out.

It doesn't matter which side of the political divide one is on, you should always be able to see that each leader has his or her failings and triumphs. They have all done some good and all made some bad decisions too.

Thatcher governed at a time when Union power was crippling this country on a regular basis and she identified where our society was broken and set about fixing it. By giving council tenants the right to buy she knew that these new homeowners couldn't afford to strike for year as their homes would be a direct risk of doing so. I recall being forced to join a union in my early working days and I hated that. I should have had the choice but it was all brother this and brother that - and where were these 'brothers' when I was made redundant? I despise unions with a passion as they are all led by self serving egomaniacs who care more about themselves than their members.

As for Blair. I genuinely like the guy, I think he is a world class statesman who Brown could only dream about emulating. Blair knew his time - and New Labour's - was coming to an end and got out, handing over to Brown to lose the election. Smart man. History will show him to be one of our greatest leaders and if he'd remained as leader I'm not all that sure Labour would have _ost the election, but Brown wanted his 'turn'.

I was definately a 'Blairite' in the early years, but New Labour returned to old Labour and that was it for me.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

glad someone else mentioned mo mowlem!!

im not takin part in this thread as my blood pressure is high as it is and i really need to finish the decorating but i will watch with interest........xx

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don't sit on a fence, the force of gravity tends to make me fall off!

I have my own opinion and I respect yours.

We seem to have to a point where we don't agree, so I'll curtail this debacle, having taken onboard your valid points!

Paddy xxx

t doesn't matter which side of the political divide one is on, you should always be able to see that each leader has his or her failings and triumphs.

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

Mo was only in that position because Blair had the foresight to put her in it, he recognised she had the qualities needed and picked the best person for the job.

Going back to Thatcher....All very well selling off the Council houses but Thatcher used the proceeds to all but scrap central government financing of local councils between 1980 and 1990.

When these proceeds began to run out in 1993 John Major was forced to plough hundreds of Millions of pounds a year into local councils, between 1980 and 1990 almost £4.5 Billion was raised through the sale of council housing stock, with less than 12% going back into new social housing projects.

So Thatcher used the North Sea Oil revenue, the proceeds of mass Privatisation, and the proceeds of council house sales to artificially enhance the state of the British economy.

By the time John Major came into power the coffers were all but empty, which rendered his Premiership impotent.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"glad someone else mentioned mo mowlem!!

im not takin part in this thread as my blood pressure is high as it is and i really need to finish the decorating but i will watch with interest........xx

i'll join you for a glass of milk, whilst I still have some...someone mentioned thatcher.........

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By *etitesaraTV/TS
over a year ago

rochdale

Have to say, selling off the Publically-owned utility companies to earn a quick buck really worked out well for the UK didn't it?

Some unions may indeed have become way too politically polarised but does anyone really hark back to the days when workers had to shut up or get out?

Blair was a tosser pure & simple. A Tory at heart & wore the red rose of Labour as a flag of convenience. His Govt did some good deeds but all these will be remembered dimly thanks to the overwhelming damage he did to the UK with his military adventurism.

Thatcher on the other hand wasn't a military adventurist, whilst she responded to the threat/opportunity of the Falkland invasion she didn't commit the UK to any wars of aggression that i can recall.

However, her obsession with Alan Greenspan's 'trickledown' theory that became known as Reaganomics has now returned with a vengeance to bite us in the behind. Her committed desire to destroy (not limit) the unions led her to destroy vaste swathes of industry in areas that were/are Labour heartlands. A cruel & calculated act, she knew exactly what she was setting in motion. Because of her actions (at least in part) we have areas of the UK that have suffered decades of poverty & look unlikely to recover for decades more.

Her party put its faith in the idea of a financial service economy (the crime is that Labour under Blair continued) and denigrated manufacturing. The sale of council houses was not altruism, as even wishy pointed out, it was simple gerrymandering by the back door.

So, whilst Blair is/was a warmonger & possibly a war criminal (thats for the Hague) i would propose that Margaret Thatcher on the whole did more damage to the fabric of the UK than did Tony Blair.

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

"Who did most good for the uk?

And who did the most damage?

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

This hopefully will be a great debacle......

Probably

But it would be better if it was a good debate instead.....but.......as is normal on these and other threads lately..that doesn't always happen

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This hopefully will be a great debacle......

Probably

But it would be better if it was a good debate instead.....but.......as is normal on these and other threads lately..that doesn't always happen

I'd like a good debate too. One where today's problems are not attributed to things that happened 20-30 years ago, but more recently than that, and not all because of what Brown did - even he couldn't have made the mess most of the world is in now all by himself.

There can be no doubt that Blair is/was a charismatic man, and his passing from British politics has left a void on the world stage in terms of British representation. Cameron may fill his shoes in time, but not for a while yet. I'm reading Blair's book at the moment and in it he highlights that the first 6 months of a new government are heady days and everyone is still finding their feet. Blair hit the ground running passing swathes of new laws and it's all being forgotten because of the Iraqi war. A war that HAD to take place, regardless of WMDs or not. I admire the man for taking that brave step if not for anything else. This world would be a far more unstable place than it is today had Blair & Bush had not rid it of Saddam Hussein.

But let's be under no illusions regarding The Falklands either. Thatcher new she was heading for defeat at the next election and Argentina gave her exactly what she needed - a victory, both in the South Atlantic and at the ballot box, but that's not all she should be remembered for. Mines closed because it was unviable to keep them open. You cannot throw money at a failing industry, it is bad business and unsustainable - any business owner would tell you that. The pits could have remained open for a few more years if Scargill, in his personal vendetta to prove he had bigger balls than Thatcher (which he didn't even though she's a woman and had no balls at all), hadn't taken the miners out of them for a year allowing them to flood out and rendering them useless.

Scargill broke the pit industry - not Thatcher. She just wanted to scale it down because she knew how much money was being wasted keeping them open just to provide a job for thousands of people. If it had bee nscaled down over time she could have garnered new business sectors to move into those areas affected and provide the _ost jobs that pit closures wrought. Scargill wouldn't allow her to do that. He wanted his 15 minutes of fame. And he was wrong!

A lot of us own our own homes today because of Thatcher, and social housing has proven itself to be a white elephant around the necks of every taxpayer in the UK as housing provided for social misfits who don't give a damn about who's home they are wrecking are living by the mantra of "they'll just give us a new one when we have more fookin kids anyway".

So yes, let's have a debate, and be objective about it. For once.

Blair did a lot of good, as did Thatcher, and both got quite a few things wrong along the way too, but our society today is better off than it was before either of them had their terms in office.

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By *he BananamanMan
over a year ago

WORCESTERSHIRE

thatcher was more of a figurehead for the country and determined to do more for us!,blair was busy conceding our rights all over the place!.

motivated by money and self glory,manipulated by cherie he is now earning more money than premiership footballers,so much money you cannot keep a track of it as it all so well hidden.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"thatcher was more of a figurehead for the country and determined to do more for us!,blair was busy conceding our rights all over the place!.

motivated by money and self glory,manipulated by cherie he is now earning more money than premiership footballers,so much money you cannot keep a track of it as it all so well hidden. "

Thatcher killed the UK mining industry, sold all the utilities and half of the housing stock. For what? To reduce taxes in the rich.

Blair for his failings brought labour forward 20 years, brought in a minimum wage.

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By *ixson-BallsMan
over a year ago

Blackpool

just before the thatcher goverments this country was all over the place,

the thatcher goverment gave me the impetus to buy my own home which was still not the norm' back then...i worked,earned good money and lived well...blairs goverments have continued to be good for myself, so no qualms against either, as both made mistakes in their tenure at number 10...but like thatchers prequel, we have now blairs sequel, where the future is looking not so bright....but thats life,i'm happy

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Sheesh! Some people just can't see past the blinkered view their grandfather's instilled in them and open their eyes. Same old lines trotted out everytime...

If YOU were running a business that was LOSING money, what would YOU do?

The rich always get rich - how do you think they got rich in the first place?

Here's an exercise:

Take £1,000,000 and put it in a high interest bank account earning 2-3% annually.

That's £20-£30k interest, every year, less tax.

The rich can't help BUT get richer unless they gave it all away, and that would be foolish, wouldn't it.

But, interestingly, the only people who moan about the rich are the poor who want to BE rich. I've never heard one single poor person say they want to get rich so they can give it all to the poor.

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By *ixson-BallsMan
over a year ago

Blackpool

Blair for his failings brought labour forward 20 years..........

labour had no option but to change as they were unelectable,hence no prime minister kinnock,foot,smith etc..

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By *umpkinMan
over a year ago

near the sounds of the wimborne quarter jack!

Thatcher on the other hand wasn't a military adventurist, whilst she responded to the threat/opportunity of the Falkland invasion she didn't commit the UK to any wars of aggression that i can recall.

IMHO Magaret Thatcher knew the Argentinians were going to invade the Falklands and took a gamble on letting them take a stronghold in the country then hoping on our military forces being able to take the country back so she could bathe in the glory! Don`t forget, the Yanks took a back seat on this "little scurmish".

Tony Blair had some pretty shit stuff to deal with, some that was none of his making (or at least, as far as we know) I`m talking about the death of Princess Diana and how the country got wrapped up in that.

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

"Blair for his failings brought labour forward 20 years..........

labour had no option but to change as they were unelectable,hence no prime minister kinnock,foot,smith etc.."

John Smith never got the chance to fight for the General Election, he was widely seen as the strongest Labour leader for decades, and the clear choice amongst the party as leader....but died before he got the chance to lead Labour to election victory.

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By *ostCouple
over a year ago

glos/wilts

Dont like her but thacher never lied. Blair? Well.....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Wonder how many swinging clubs there would be if labour didn’t have a stint in power.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Blair for his failings brought labour forward 20 years..........

labour had no option but to change as they were unelectable,hence no prime minister kinnock,foot,smith etc..

I agree with that. I was all set to vote for John Smith and it's a tragic loss to the country that he never got the chance to show his stuff. A real pity that.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Wonder how many swinging clubs there would be if labour didn’t have a stint in power."

Probably dozens more than there are now as the Tories were always at it lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

So are priests

but doesn’t stop them screaming sinners to us

You have a point though, but even though they were all at it, they still had nuclear families in mind for us mere mortals, amazed they never banned divorce

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Wonder how many swinging clubs there would be if labour didn’t have a stint in power.

Probably dozens more than there are now as the Tories were always at it lol

imagine what it would be like if the libs got in then....really got in i mean

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By *ollie_JCouple
over a year ago

London

F**k me i actually agree with wishy

Interesting leader in today's Times on Blair...

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By *aucy3Couple
over a year ago

glasgow

[Removed by poster at 10/09/10 21:43:59]

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By *aucy3Couple
over a year ago

glasgow

tony blair,no matter you'r politics,a good leader.made labour a credible party,ready for government.a bit smarmy,but could convince people he was right.delivered on many of his policies.dragged labour into the 21st century.

magret thatcher,a brilliant politician.killed the unions,who were running the country,and took power back to government.could make a disaster,sound like a magnificent success.cruel,but the leader we needed at the time.dragged britain into the 20th century,ready for the 21st century.two very different politicians,right for there time.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Hooray! lol.. now that's what I call objective.

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By *aucy3Couple
over a year ago

glasgow

"Hooray! lol.. now that's what I call objective.

my worst quality,is my honesty.

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By *U1966Man
over a year ago

Devon

Tony Blair did a lot of good thatcher did some good and a awful lot of bad selling off bt waterboard electric and british gas look at the profits we could be making now

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I seem to remember when Margeret came to power we had less people in the country yet we had more job losses...

She cleverly gave the working lower classes the right to buy their Council houses thus making people mortgaged up to the hilt and unable to strike.

Power was then taken away from the working Man/Woman and returned to the rich and powerful company owners and leaders.And to those of you who go on about the Unions running the country the Union was the membership of ordinary working people trying to earn a fair wage and trying to keep their jobs rather than have their livlihoods shipped out abroad to cheaper workers where the rich members of the working class have all their money invested...I _ost my job of nine years in the early eighties because the factory I worked in which had been there for thirty years was shut down in weeks and all the work given to the French not because they were doing the work better and cheaper but just because certain members of the house of lords had family money tied up there.Still hey ho they say that the British working Man/Woman is his/her own worse enemy...

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By *aucy3Couple
over a year ago

glasgow

"Tony Blair did a lot of good thatcher did some good and a awful lot of bad selling off bt waterboard electric and british gas look at the profits we could be making now

you would be getting charged,much more for everyone of them.competition keeps down prices.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

There's too much research to do on all the utilities privatised by Thatcher but suffice it to say that when you factor in inflation the profits on those shares are not much higher than when launched, relatively speaking. That's not to say that the original investors saw very good gains shortly after they were launched but mergers and acquisitions since then have seen those shares bought and sold over the years and profits now are few and far between, even more so given the recent recession.

The flip side is that if they have been kept as national industries they would have gone bankrupt under the last government and we most certainly wouldn't have had the money available to bail out the banks which would hav driven them out of business leading to a total collapse of our economy - possibly.

When the govt employs vast numbers of people there is always a 'sod it' attitude adopted by it's workforce. Nobody is accountable and they all get nice juicy pensions, which we pay for.

Thatcher knew this, and got rid of those industries as she recognised that government exists to govern the way we live. Business exists to provide the material things we need to live.

Blair knew it also, or he would have nationalised them again but he knew he didn't want to be saddled with 1/2 a million employees demanding extortional pay rises every year or they'll hold the country to ransom with strikes, plus the aforementioned very lucrative pensions that being a state employee offers.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"thatcher was more of a figurehead for the country and determined to do more for us!,blair was busy conceding our rights all over the place!.

motivated by money and self glory,manipulated by cherie he is now earning more money than premiership footballers,so much money you cannot keep a track of it as it all so well hidden. "

i actually agreed with you a bit there!! think i need to lie down feel rather faint.....x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"thatcher was more of a figurehead for the country and determined to do more for us!,blair was busy conceding our rights all over the place!.

motivated by money and self glory,manipulated by cherie he is now earning more money than premiership footballers,so much money you cannot keep a track of it as it all so well hidden.

i actually agreed with you a bit there!! think i need to lie down feel rather faint.....x

It's amazing what happens when you think objectively innit lol

We're all still alive so they must have got something right hehehe

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By *aucy3Couple
over a year ago

glasgow

"thatcher was more of a figurehead for the country and determined to do more for us!,blair was busy conceding our rights all over the place!.

motivated by money and self glory,manipulated by cherie he is now earning more money than premiership footballers,so much money you cannot keep a track of it as it all so well hidden.

i actually agreed with you a bit there!! think i need to lie down feel rather faint.....x

It's amazing what happens when you think objectively innit lol

We're all still alive so they must have got something right hehehe

no politician(maybe micheal foot)went into politics,thinking i hope i end up worse of.if you think politicians,are not intrested in making money.you are living in cloud cuckoo land.we just have to hope they are good at there jobs,whilst they are making that money.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I begrudge no man or woman being paid handsomely for a job well done.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"thatcher was more of a figurehead for the country and determined to do more for us!,blair was busy conceding our rights all over the place!.

motivated by money and self glory,manipulated by cherie he is now earning more money than premiership footballers,so much money you cannot keep a track of it as it all so well hidden.

i actually agreed with you a bit there!! think i need to lie down feel rather faint.....x

It's amazing what happens when you think objectively innit lol

We're all still alive so they must have got something right hehehe

some politicians are interested in making money when they enter the house but many are not. In reality being a politician isn't as well paid as comparable jobs in the private sector.

In reality the majority of people entering parliament are doing it for their political beliefs and possibly for the kudos and power. Money while it is nice isn't a primary factor.

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By *xccvvMan
over a year ago

Yorkshire North East

Thatcher broke the miners and no longer could the miners hold the rest of the country to ransom demanding a 20% pay increase, if not they would strike and the country would have blackouts

Thatcher broke the dockers who had jobs for life, even if jailed for theft on the docks got their job back

Thatcher broke the steel workers who would strike if didn't get their demands

Having lived through the Thatcher years with hardship and hated the woman with a passion, can realise now what she was trying to achieve

Tony Blair inherited a countries wealth, interest rates were low money in the bank, some cities were booming, inflation was low, stock market was on the up, yet he managed to blow it all and say no more boom and bust

As for Northern Ireland not let us forget the brave Ulster men who fort in two world wars, fighting for King and country for our freedom and so we could put our views across, even in a forum like this

The pope and Catholic church blessed the Nazi party going into battle, this is not a secret

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By *ixson-BallsMan
over a year ago

Blackpool

"Blair for his failings brought labour forward 20 years..........

labour had no option but to change as they were unelectable,hence no prime minister kinnock,foot,smith etc..

i know john smith died before he had a chance to fight a general election and was the strongest candidate in years to gel all the labour factions behind him,.. i was generalising on labours unelectable policies at the time...even if he'd survived john smith would have _ost due to his policy of tax hikes...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Thatcher broke the miners and no longer could the miners hold the rest of the country to ransom demanding a 20% pay increase, if not they would strike and the country would have blackouts

Thatcher broke the dockers who had jobs for life, even if jailed for theft on the docks got their job back

Thatcher broke the steel workers who would strike if didn't get their demands

Having lived through the Thatcher years with hardship and hated the woman with a passion, can realise now what she was trying to achieve

The pope and Catholic church blessed the Nazi party going into battle, this is not a secret "

An interesting but blinkered view. Thatcher did what she did to strangle the working class. She achieved this quite well.

The miners were not being unreasonable asking for a rise just above inflation . You seem to forget under Thatcher the mortgage rate went through the roof. Blair didn’t inherit riches. I think you will find that the Thatcher government had sold them. BT, British gas, the energy boards, the water boards and the list goes on.

The pope was in a country under occupation. Priests were threatened and so was the general public. Under those circumstances people do things under duress.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The pope and Catholic church blessed the Nazi party going into battle, this is not a secret "

*Some* German Catholic archbishops allied themselves to the Nazi party after 1933 but there is no evidence to support your claim that the Pope blessed Nazis going into battle, unless his intent, as a man of God, was to bless any soldier going to war.

1930s Germany was made up primarily of Catholics in the The Bavarian region, the Rhineland and Westphalia as well as parts in south-west Germany, whilst the northern industrial heartlands of The Third Reich were heavily Protestant. Hitler was anticlerical and there is evidence to suggest that he planned to do away with the Church in Germany once he'd dispensed with what he considered to be his more immediate enemies.

Just thought some clarification on that was neccessary.

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By *aucy3Couple
over a year ago

glasgow

"Thatcher broke the miners and no longer could the miners hold the rest of the country to ransom demanding a 20% pay increase, if not they would strike and the country would have blackouts

Thatcher broke the dockers who had jobs for life, even if jailed for theft on the docks got their job back

Thatcher broke the steel workers who would strike if didn't get their demands

Having lived through the Thatcher years with hardship and hated the woman with a passion, can realise now what she was trying to achieve

The pope and Catholic church blessed the Nazi party going into battle, this is not a secret "

its one thing to talk politics,quite another to talk religion.religion is pure chance,you dont choose.i am not religious in the least.but can spot a bigot a mile away.youse have no place in society,and seem a bit sad.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"You seem to forget under Thatcher the mortgage rate went through the roof. "

That's hardly indicative of a party solely for the rich then is it?

I remember double digit mortgage interest rates, it stopped me getting a house just before 1987 when the housing market collapsed. And bloody grateful I was about it too as I'd have been left with a fookin huge mortgage and house worth half what I paid for it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"its one thing to talk politics,quite another to talk religion.religion is pure chance,you dont choose.i am not religious in the least.but can spot a bigot a mile away.youse have no place in society,and seem a bit sad.

Hey, we're having a debate and he's entitled to his views, which I didn't see as bigoted, merely misinformed.

Let's not get this thread deleted too eh?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"You seem to forget under Thatcher the mortgage rate went through the roof.

That's hardly indicative of a party solely for the rich then is it?

Prices recovered within a few years and sky rocketed afterwards. The sale of thousands of council houses dented the market as well. Thatcher would have gone into meltdown if it wasn't for the Falklands war. It is well known that incident saved her bacon.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Hey, we're having a debate and he's entitled to his views, which I didn't see as bigoted, merely misinformed.

Let's not get this thread deleted too eh?"

Well i can agree with you on that point. People are entitled to a view without being abused.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 11/09/10 01:18:32]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" Thatcher would have gone into meltdown if it wasn't for the Falklands war. It is well known that incident saved her bacon. "

Yes, I agree, her back was to the wall and she was staring defeat at the ballot box in the face.

I've watched house prices closely since 1987 and it happens every 10 years or so. A blip, then a sharp decline in prices, which stagnates new builds, leading to a rise in property prices due to fewer houses for sale, until such a time where new builds begin again, house prices rise, a flood of property for sale hits the market and so the price falls again ad infinitum.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" Thatcher would have gone into meltdown if it wasn't for the Falklands war. It is well known that incident saved her bacon.

Yes, I agree, her back was to the wall and she was staring defeat at the ballot box in the face.

Some things she did needed to be done. Strikes were at a stupid level and unions had too much power. However council house sales any utility company sales for fast cash has had a knock on effect to the current day.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" Yes, I agree, her back was to the wall and she was staring defeat at the ballot box in the face.

....(all together now) to the sindow, to the wall, till the....oh, I can see maggie turning dancehall queen on the cabinet table right now with cecil parkinson hitting that hoochie up side

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" Yes, I agree, her back was to the wall and she was staring defeat at the ballot box in the face.

....(all together now) to the sindow, to the wall, till the....oh, I can see maggie turning dancehall queen on the cabinet table right now with cecil parkinson hitting that hoochie up side

I think she was a powerful woman and if she had demanded they sing i have no doubt they would have.

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By *xccvvMan
over a year ago

Yorkshire North East

Thatcher inherited high interest rates and souring inflation, the dead were lined up in hospitals, rubbish was mounting on fields as no bin collectors, trains on strike, and yes the miners dockers and steel workers on strike, and the current Labour prime minister was asked what you going to do about the crisis his reply " what crisis"

This was 1979 inflation nearly 20% under a labour government, interest rates were out of control, mass strikes, we have had years of blackouts, we were all fed up with it all

I worked on the docks and seen how the dockers used them for their own enjoyment, then cried when it all came to an end as they didn't have a job for life

As for being called a bigot ? well will leave that one alone as they don't know me, but nothing could be further from the truth, I was replying to earlier posts about Northern Ireland and those who should be remembered for bringing peace

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"As for being called a bigot ? well will leave that one alone as they don't know me, but nothing could be further from the truth, I was replying to earlier posts about Northern Ireland and those who should be remembered for bringing peace"

a gracious response

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Thatcher inherited high interest rates and souring inflation, the dead were lined up in hospitals, rubbish was mounting on fields as no bin collectors, trains on strike, and yes the miners dockers and steel workers on strike, and the current Labour prime minister was asked what you going to do about the crisis his reply " what crisis"

This was 1979 inflation nearly 20% under a labour government, interest rates were out of control, mass strikes, we have had years of blackouts, we were all fed up with it all

I worked on the docks and seen how the dockers used them for their own enjoyment, then cried when it all came to an end as they didn't have a job for life

There was a lot of abuse by workers in the 70's and inflation wasn't good but selling off national assets didn't do any good long term. I agree something had to be done as things were not good. Thatcher just went the other way.

In reality when she left power things were still not healthy and she had asset striped the country.

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By *aucy3Couple
over a year ago

glasgow

wrong pm keep it political

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

And then Labour ousted the Tories, for the whole reign of Thatcher they cried "bad show bad show" and vowed to buy back the privatised companies for the people - but they didn't

They vowed to scrap VAT but they didn't, they did raise it to 17.5% from 15% and looks like we are going to see it rise to 20% soon because of further bad debt inherited from another labour reign.

Thatcher gave us - The right to buy your home

She took on the euro MP's and they cowered away from confronting Britain or trying to impose thier high subscriptions and rules on us, unlike they do today.

She brought the Unions who had become power crazy back down to earth. Show me the strongest Unions and I will show you an industry we no longer have, shipbuilding, steel, coal, car making to name but a few.

She closed the pits, £20 to bring up a bag of coal that we can buy abroad for £10

Margret Thatcher increased the wages of the armed forces many of whom were recieving supplementary benefits because standard army pay left them below the Poverty line, yes people on the dole were being paid more than soldiers on the streets of Belfast

She fought against the "open door policy" on imigration both from Commonwealth countries, from Hong Kong and from european community member countries.

It is a great shame that like many great leaders she became power crazy, she made mistakes.

She introduced Poll tax, actually a good thing but badly put into circulation, setting rates was left to councils, some stupid, some greedy and of course some labour controlled who set crazy rates like in Lambeth knowing that the Tories would get the blame not them.

With the right to buy council houses she did not implement a control to ensure that some of the funds gained from the sales went to restock sold off homes and it was all squandered on Schools, roads, new windows and fire alarms for the remaining council houses, good schemes but they should have only been partially funded by council house sales and the rest from existing council funds.

She cleared the whole of our National Debt.

She cleared the debt to the USA for thier supply of arms and equipment during World War 2, yes we were still repaying that debt in the early 80s

She did sell assets, the ones we were heavily subsidising in order to keep people in jobs, the hope was to use the extra wealth gained by not having to prop them up to create new jobs. A brave attempt to do something good a shame it did not work as well as hoped but hey do you really want the debt ridden railways back ?

Worst of all she refused to bend even when common sense said she needed to her popularity of 1982 made her believe she was invincible and perhaps she was, but she never got the chance to test it, she was ousted by her own party.

A Prime Minister elected by the people of the country was outsted by her own party scared they might lose an election, Labour did it with the last PM before Brown (whatshisname)

Parties should not be allowed to remove our Prime Minister without calling a General Election, we the people elect the prime minister we the people should be the ones that sack them, us or the Law but not a bunch of ministers scared of losing thier jobs if they dont.

Had that policy not been allowed there would have been a general election a long time ago and I doubt Brown would have ever got the chance to ruin our economy

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

There isn't a single word there I can disagree with. Not one. Great post.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I hope these pointless posts are removed from this thread in the morning when the mods read them.

Ruining a bloody good impartial debate for once.

Remove this one too while you're at it ruggers.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Intresting reading and views here. I think that any goverment that is in power has its good times and its bad times no mater who we vote for there never going to get it right all the time. Look at any of our pms members of parliment past and presnt there are always going to be good ones bad ones indifferent ones i think thats life in general. I dont think highly of Thatcher but then again i felt the same about Blair but thats my choice. If i may i would like too just comment on some issues that i have read and in no way am i setting out to attack or cause offence.

Firstly there was a refrence to the USA sitting on the fence in the South Atlantic conflict they didnt they supplied weapons which enabled the task force to have an edge in the air the also embargoed the Argentinian Airforce in the supply of weapons and technical help for their american supplied aircraft. Ones who didnt are mebers of the european union who if they had followed suit would of prevented the use of the exocet missile system.

The long conflict in Northern Ireland was never going to be winable and yes the goverment did help bring peace but i think that the parites also invoved did their fair share as well in realising that doing what they were doing would never lead to a peacefull solution.

With refrence to the Vatican and the church the Vatican City is regarded as a country which holds a neutral status so although it was in an axis held country it was a totally independent state. Blair did make some mistakes as regards to weapons of mass destruction and maybe he did or didnt lie. But to turn around and say he is a war criminal well that can be said about any leader of any country that sends his or her country into an armed conflict. Was Churchill tried as one after the horrific attack on Dresden at the end of ww2 or America dropping the 2 atomic Bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki on all 3 counts the main casualties were mainly civilians.

Both Thatcher and Blair will have there places in our History Books for many years too come and both will have there strenghs and weaknesses discussed in foroums the world over so for me i think neither is better than the other.

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By *etitesaraTV/TS
over a year ago

rochdale

Parties will always be allowed to change leaders in mid-term because we in the UK do not elect a 'Presidential' style leader. We elect a party based on the number of seats that party win during the course of a general election.

The Parliamentary Party then elect a leader from within the ranks of the Parliamentary Party. Of course, it almost always is the leader of the party anyway but not always (although i can't recall who was the last leader of a winning party not to win their seat).

These are the current rules.

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

Exactly, if you look at the Immigration figures for just about all Western nations over the last Two decades there has been a huge influx of people from the poorer nations.

What has added to it is the insistance of the EU to enlarge itself and invite Eastern European states to apply for membership.

As the wealth gap between Western nations and African states widens the migration race will speed up even more.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don't claim to be a political clever clogs and I don't know the statistics etc when it comes to immigration however I just think that if you live in a poor society/country and see no hint of improvement during your lifetime doesn't it make sense to then move somewhere you can make a difference to your life? I would if I was in that position, in fact I am seriously considering moving myself and my nursing degree to Oz asap!

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

"I hope these pointless posts are removed from this thread in the morning when the mods read them.

Ruining a bloody good impartial debate for once.

Remove this one too while you're at it ruggers.

But yours is a good one

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

Ok people, don't be insulting others on the forums just because they have a different view than you, as it just gets people banned.

Posts have been removed, plus any that quoted the post......keep your arguing in private please.

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