FabSwingers.com forum: Posting Pics Without Specific Consent

By *erbyDalesCpl OP Couple
over a year ago

Derbyshire

So, as the first website-owner is convicted (California, facing 20 years in jail) of allowing users to post pics without the consent of the person pictured, and with our own, similar law coming into force soon, what changes do you foresee on sites such as this?

Mr ddc

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

How are they going to enforce it fully?

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By *erbyDalesCpl OP Couple
over a year ago

Derbyshire

"How are they going to enforce it fully?"

Who? The courts or the websites?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The website and obviously the police, the courts won't enforce it they will just deal with cases put before them.

So what is the criteria for an acceptable pic?

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By *erbyDalesCpl OP Couple
over a year ago

Derbyshire

"The website and obviously the police, the courts won't enforce it they will just deal with cases put before them.

So what is the criteria for an acceptable pic?"

I just have the questions, doubt anyone has the full answers yet.

(That's why I was interested in other people's views).

Personally I suspect the legislation will struggle initially, but will be constantly beefed up as required. There will also be a period where what constitutes "reasonable care" is decided.

But I would have thought after seeing one person sent away, most sites will decide to change fairly quickly?

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By *andb69Couple
over a year ago

leeds

We find it very disturbing when single men's profiles show clearly identifiable photos of women's faces whilst the same men usually take great care to hide their own faces. Not only is this against Fab rules but it could fall foul of existing a revenge porn laws and the proposed laws. Admin are very good at taking these pictures down, but of course once they have been displayed the damage might have been done.

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By *erbyDalesCpl OP Couple
over a year ago

Derbyshire

The chap in America also took pics down when asked. So something extra before pics are approved perhaps?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The chap in America also took pics down when asked. So something extra before pics are approved perhaps?

That should be what is required, need to know that only the users face is on show and that all other people in a pic have there faces and any identifiable features hidden.

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By *erbyDalesCpl OP Couple
over a year ago

Derbyshire

That should be what is required, need to know that only the users face is on show and that all other people in a pic have there faces and any identifiable features hidden.

There is still an argument over who decides what constitutes 'identifiable'.

It looks like America is going the route of much more robust verification.

When we took some pics including other people we have always asked them to send us a pm saying they were happy for us to put the pics on here too.

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

I see sites not letting any pics of "others" on profiles, which is understandable if they are going to end up paying for it. whether that be prison sentence or fines

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By *oobsandballsMan
over a year ago

st andrews

Our pics include others but don't show faces, and we still check with those involved that they're happy to have them up before making them public

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

"I see sites not letting any pics of "others" on profiles, which is understandable if they are going to end up paying for it. whether that be prison sentence or fines

me too and as you say, who can blame them.

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

"I see sites not letting any pics of "others" on profiles, which is understandable if they are going to end up paying for it. whether that be prison sentence or fines

me too and as you say, who can blame them.

To be fair, although I am being hypocritical as we have had pics of others before now it isn't really a bad thing to only have your own pics on the profile, as that is who the person would be meeting.

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By *erbyDalesCpl OP Couple
over a year ago

Derbyshire

"I see sites not letting any pics of "others" on profiles, which is understandable if they are going to end up paying for it. whether that be prison sentence or fines

True.

But what about the users themselves?

I can see it having more implications for couples:

I remember one site where you could tell which users had been on the site for over 10 years because they had free access to the cam rooms. Then we found a couple where the lady's age was given as 23. Clearly she wasn't part of the original couple's profile, so which was the female in the pics, I wondered?

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

But what about the users themselves?

I can see it having more implications for couples:

A newer model?

I think it will be an issue with everyone, you are probably talking about something they may not happen all the time, but on the same site I think you are talking about ( if that was your name on there too , Hi and* waves * )then there are a couple of men who have our pics on their profile...obviously not recognisable but we could if we were that way inclined complain they have them , even if we gave permission at first. This rule could end up with lots in trouble.

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By *erbyDalesCpl OP Couple
over a year ago

Derbyshire

( if that was your name on there too , Hi and* waves * )"

It was lol *waves back*

(I had another temporary one around Christmas, when there was talk of us going back, but that didn't go so well!)

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By *erbyDalesCpl OP Couple
over a year ago

Derbyshire

This rule could end up with lots in trouble."

Like all new laws, I always worry when politicians don't fully think through all the implications and leave it to the courts, and the rest of us, to interpret what we should be doing!

On the plus side, I can see far fewer posts about Google Images!

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

Porn makers have to keep records of actors and consent details. Something similar could be done for people appearing in photos.

Contributors could submit more extensive details, perhaps including copy of accompanying person's signature as well as their own.

I dislike single profiles where more is revealed of the unidentifiable extra participants than the profile user. It's an aspect of a poor profile Imo.

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By *erbyDalesCpl OP Couple
over a year ago

Derbyshire

Contributors could submit more extensive details, perhaps including copy of accompanying person's signature as well as their own.

But can you imagine the cost of doing all that, and the time involved. I take my hat off to the pic mods as it is, truely a thankless task.

(My sister used to work in a biscuit factory, the first week it's all "Yea, Biscuits!" Then soon you never want to eat another one ever. I can imagine willy pics get tiring even sooner!

)

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By *onnie and JohnCouple
over a year ago

andover

The site could half the work of photo mods just by banning genital shots..Connie ,,

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So, as the first website-owner is convicted (California, facing 20 years in jail) of allowing users to post pics without the consent of the person pictured, and with our own, similar law coming into force soon, what changes do you foresee on sites such as this?

Mr ddc"
its already here it's called revenge porn or posts carrying up to 2yr sentence

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By *erbyDalesCpl OP Couple
over a year ago

Derbyshire

", its already here it's called revenge porn or posts carrying up to 2yr sentence "

I may be wrong, but I think that's a different one. The existing one requires the cps to demonstrate intent to harass or upset, and implies the pics are of a former partner/girlfriend.

The new one coming in shortly is wider, less about revenge, more about specific consent, but as always, the press are giving mixed reports of exactly what it will entail!

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By *lactontogMan
over a year ago

Clacton on Sea

For the last 20 years in the UK its been custom to get photo ID & a model release signed so you have the rights to use pics.

I ask for 2 forms of photo ID, a signed model release and a 2257 form for the States.

In the UK the photographer still holds all legal rights to photos he as taken but nice ones like me & 90% of the togs i know wouldn't do this as its suicide if you want keep peoples trust also making a career in the adult industry.

Swinging sites social sites will always have people posting pics that don't belong to them but as long as they remove them when asked they are fine.

Some sites like AW might sometimes ask if you have consent e.g. a model release as their business is based on posted material.

Swinging sites & social sites have no worries at the moment and for the long foreseeable future.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Our pics include others but don't show faces, and we still check with those involved that they're happy to have them up before making them public"

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By *onnie and JohnCouple
over a year ago

andover

Hi Its on the back of new laws for revenge porn . its called "sexually explicit media" or (sem) under the new laws if passed, any sexual interaction image or video, stored on any usegroup will be "sexually explicit media" and as such be open for criminal prosecution. In July 2013, Minister of Justice Chris Grayling announced plans to "take appropriate action" ..So lets wait and see..Connie xx

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By *lactontogMan
over a year ago

Clacton on Sea

"The site could half the work of photo mods just by banning genital shots..Connie ,,

this will happen in the next couple of years as all adult sites will have to be child proof e.g. nothing naughty in free sections.

Swinging sites will have to become paid member sites e.g. credit card entry to prevent minors looking in or be forced to shut down.

I moved my sites abroad 2 years ago because of the wacky UK laws coming into place.

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

it may come down to "identifiable features" so if a person with lets say a tattoo goes to the police and says "this person is using a pic of me without my permission" then they will be asked to take it down....

if not... then that person will be charged.....

but short of getting the signatures of both people i am not sure how it is going to work

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By *lactontogMan
over a year ago

Clacton on Sea

"it may come down to "identifiable features" so if a person with lets say a tattoo goes to the police and says "this person is using a pic of me without my permission" then they will be asked to take it down....

if not... then that person will be charged.....

but short of getting the signatures of both people i am not sure how it is going to work"

As long as the site removes the offending picture it will be fine, most including Fab do this this to an high efficiency already.

If i upload another persons pic on my profile i always blur the face out & any tattoos or jewelery which might identity the person, it may take a while to do but it is worth it.

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By *erbyDalesCpl OP Couple
over a year ago

Derbyshire

"Hi Its on the back of new laws for revenge porn . its called "sexually explicit media" or (sem) under the new laws if passed, any sexual interaction image or video, stored on any usegroup will be "sexually explicit media" and as such be open for criminal prosecution. In July 2013, Minister of Justice Chris Grayling announced plans to "take appropriate action" ..So lets wait and see..Connie xx

It's in the new Criminal Justice and Courts bill, due to become law this Spring.

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By *erbyDalesCpl OP Couple
over a year ago

Derbyshire

Swinging sites & social sites have no worries at the moment and for the long foreseeable future."

That's how I read it too. It's all currently about the person uploading the pics.

Interestingly though, the new Californian law wasn't strong enough to prosecute this case, so they did him under Federal law instead, under making profit from the act!

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By *onnie and JohnCouple
over a year ago

andover

wont be the next couple of years..this year if the new laws are passed, the wacky UK laws are coming in line with the US , may even be policed by"UK Safer Internet Centre" and "others" more private sector involvement. moving abroad is ok now but in the future your website will fall under the new uk laws, if the ip address can be tracked and a % of users are in the uk. Connie xx

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By *lactontogMan
over a year ago

Clacton on Sea

Contributors could submit more extensive details, perhaps including copy of accompanying person's signature as well as their own.

But can you imagine the cost of doing all that, and the time involved. I take my hat off to the pic mods as it is, truely a thankless task.

(My sister used to work in a biscuit factory, the first week it's all "Yea, Biscuits!" Then soon you never want to eat another one ever. I can imagine willy pics get tiring even sooner!

)

Thankfully i have kept up my taste for naughty ladies, i do think of other things when filming for obvious reasons but i do remember when first filming 5 girls together thinking how brilliant it was...its just another day at the orifice now lol!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I guess the other question will be would the person who uploaded the pictures also be responsible and face any sort of charges?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"We find it very disturbing when single men's profiles show clearly identifiable photos of women's faces whilst the same men usually take great care to hide their own faces. Not only is this against Fab rules but it could fall foul of existing a revenge porn laws and the proposed laws. Admin are very good at taking these pictures down, but of course once they have been displayed the damage might have been done."

It's not limited to single men only. I have seen a picture of a lady licking another lady here. The lady doing the licking has her own single profile here and in the picture she could be clearly identified, the lady who was being licked and posting the picture had her face hidden.

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By *lactontogMan
over a year ago

Clacton on Sea

"wont be the next couple of years..this year if the new laws are passed, the wacky UK laws are coming in line with the US , may even be policed by"UK Safer Internet Centre" and "others" more private sector involvement. moving abroad is ok now but in the future your website will fall under the new uk laws, if the ip address can be tracked and a % of users are in the uk. Connie xx "

Most of us that have shifted abroad employ webmasters from those countries to edit & upload, video download sites are the main target of ATVOD at present but within a year maybe two there will be no "free" adult sites as everything will become credit card entry.

We have been fighting for these new laws for years as it stop piracy & also under the government agenda makes all adult sites child proof so its a win win for everybody doing this legally.

Swinging sites will become paid members only but again this s out the timewasters.

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By *lactontogMan
over a year ago

Clacton on Sea

"I guess the other question will be would the person who uploaded the pictures also be responsible and face any sort of charges?"

Cases have been made in the UK already & as someone said earlier it now carries up to a 2 year sentence for revenge porn / causing intended embarrassment for a third party etc.

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By *erbyDalesCpl OP Couple
over a year ago

Derbyshire

And it's not really about having other people in your pic, that's just an unintended consequence imo, it's more targeted at those who use other people's Facebook pics to open profiles on adult sites without them ever knowing about it.

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By *onnie and JohnCouple
over a year ago

andover

"I guess the other question will be would the person who uploaded the pictures also be responsible and face any sort of charges?"

Of course you are responsible in UK law for any upload to the internet.

That's one of the reason's you pay for your internet router to be delivered. Connie xx

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By *ercy the Park KeeperMan
over a year ago

Chester

if not... then that person will be charged.....

but short of getting the signatures of both people i am not sure how it is going to work

As long as the site removes the offending picture it will be fine, most including Fab do this this to an high efficiency already.

If i upload another persons pic on my profile i always blur the face out & any tattoos or jewelery which might identity the person, it may take a while to do but it is worth it."

To some point though if there seems to be a lack of checking and conformation on photos uploaded its hard to say how a court would see it. Ignorance or poor practice won't bee seen as an admissible defense.

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By *lactontogMan
over a year ago

Clacton on Sea

To answer your above statement the best country to move to at the moment is the States, we moved our bits to New York as it complies with UK laws strangely enough.

The UK is shit for their anti piracy laws on porn so it made sense to go to a country that fought for peoples rights.

When the UK finally fetch in their planned laws all UK video sites will be closed or under ATVOD, a list of these safe ATVOD adult sites will be shown to viewers wanting adult sites.

When this happens and the government get their finger out us & many others will think to return part of our businesses to the UK.

The broadband suppliers will block any adults other than ATVOD sites...so we go from 500,000 sites to 200 so profits will be better from a reduced market even if we have to water down our content.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Personally unless it was a couple profile I would reject all pictures that show any other person than the profile holder.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Personally unless it was a couple profile I would reject all pictures that show any other person than the profile holder.

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By *onnie and JohnCouple
over a year ago

andover

"On-Demand Programme Services" will become a entity on its own.

I was only really passing comment on images posted and stored on this site, showing faces and identifiable marks.

Luckily this site has no part, displaying any video's .

I agree 100% its going to be a mine field, but at least the litigation lawyers will be rubbing there hands with glee ..lol Connie xx

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Personally unless it was a couple profile I would reject all pictures that show any other person than the profile holder.

what about a couple that have other people in their pics?

I've said before many of us like group sex/parties/socials, and displaying the pics on FAB...why shouldnt we???- as long as its in the rules that nobody is identifiable.

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By *lactontogMan
over a year ago

Clacton on Sea

"Personally unless it was a couple profile I would reject all pictures that show any other person than the profile holder.

what about a couple that have other people in their pics?

I've said before many of us like group sex/parties/socials, and displaying the pics on FAB...why shouldnt we???- as long as its in the rules that nobody is identifiable."

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By *erbyDalesCpl OP Couple
over a year ago

Derbyshire

"Personally unless it was a couple profile I would reject all pictures that show any other person than the profile holder.

But even then, how do you prove the profile holder is the person in their own pics? (Other than the fact that no-one would willingly pretend to be me

)

Or that the couple are still a couple?

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By *onnie and JohnCouple
over a year ago

andover

"Personally unless it was a couple profile I would reject all pictures that show any other person than the profile holder.

under copyright law any person in a photo must give written permission. Unless the holder gives away the right. Connie xx

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Personally unless it was a couple profile I would reject all pictures that show any other person than the profile holder.

sorry Jinty..as you know I disagree consistently on this..

I just find it another way for people to tell others how they should run their profiles....for something that doesnt interest them. Fine if you like 121 meets and a more private type of meeting.Theres thousands of others that dont wish to play that way..I find it a bit disrespectful that my interests and theirs arent taken into account regarding the nature of photographs on a swinging site.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

IANAL but AFAIUI :

the impending legislation will make it an offence to POST/UPLOAD any picture of a sexual nature, ie nude person on a swing site, on the internet without the specific permission from the person(s)in the photo. Whether they can be identified or not. Presumably the person in the image would be able to do so.

For example, pasting such images into Google Image or Tineye would technically fall into the offence category.

As this site is also actively modded/managed the site would not be able to claim exemption under the so-called "safe harbour" provisions. One would therefore expect such pictures to not be allowed in the first instance.

Not the end of the world.

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