FabSwingers.com mobile

Join us FREE, we're FREE to use

Web's largest swingers site since 2006.

Already registered?
Login here

Back to forum list
Back to The Lounge

Sir Ian McKellen, don't be a bystander

Jump to newest
 

By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Has anyone else seen this short video with Sir Ian's voiceover urging people to intervene if they hear someone using racist, homophobic or any 'hate' abuse based on the other individuals race creed, sexuality, disability etc

I feel it's well intentioned and a noble idea. However I do fear for the safety of individuals who follow this advice blindly. The NF skinhead supporter may not take criticism well and turn violent. The victim may actually want to deal with it themselves and not welcome your input. The police are empowered to deal with hate crime, why not leave it to them?.

Any thoughts?

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Do you not think if more people set an example of what is acceptable, then those who have previously gotten away with bad behaviour will start to reconsider?

Also, the police aren't always present. We all have a duty in society, you can't dismiss it as someone else's job.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *inaTitzTV/TS
over a year ago

Titz Towers, North Notts

I think it is important to show disapproval of hate, rather than staying silent.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Do you not think if more people set an example of what is acceptable, then those who have previously gotten away with bad behaviour will start to reconsider?

Also, the police aren't always present. We all have a duty in society, you can't dismiss it as someone else's job. "

Agree with the sentiment entirely and I am someone who would intervene subject to a quick assessment of whether I am able to deal with any fallout. My concern is for those who are very well meaning and end up escalating a situation that they are not equipped to deal with

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *trawberry-popWoman
over a year ago

South East Midlands NOT

I can never be a bystander. When I see violence I get involved, and that has been detrimental to me in the past. But I don't care.

A little before xmas I saw a huge bouncer take a skinny little lad down an alley and beat the absolute fuck out of him. I marched straight over there, got some verbal and some (attempted) intimidation from said bouncer. Spent the rest of my night out with the police. Also reported it to licensing on the Monday morning.

I always get myself into bother and i've been subjected to violence before as a result but I can't just watch violence for any reason.

Homophobia, racism, any kind of ignorant hatred has no place in my life.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Do you not think if more people set an example of what is acceptable, then those who have previously gotten away with bad behaviour will start to reconsider?

Also, the police aren't always present. We all have a duty in society, you can't dismiss it as someone else's job.

Agree with the sentiment entirely and I am someone who would intervene subject to a quick assessment of whether I am able to deal with any fallout. My concern is for those who are very well meaning and end up escalating a situation that they are not equipped to deal with"

That's a selfish way of thinking. It's not the person stepping in that is already at risk, it's the person already being attacked.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Very few people will say anything. At Wembley watching a game with 4 young lads some arsehole behind me spent the whole match using homophobic, racist and anti-semetic language. I eventually told him to shut up, got a load of abuse, reported him to the stewards but no one supported me. Funnily enough he pretty much stopped after I confronted him.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

I can't stand and watch that sort of thing, even if I get myself into grief.

If the police are about, by all means they can handle it but cuts upon cuts does tend to mean that police street presence is a thing of the past.

I'll call the police if it's a really serious incident and they could potentially respond in time or are needed.

I wouldn't ignore it though, ever.

My reaction to threads using hateful language towards, or insulting, groups of people is an indication of how I feel about hate behaviour in every day life.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Do you not think if more people set an example of what is acceptable, then those who have previously gotten away with bad behaviour will start to reconsider?

Also, the police aren't always present. We all have a duty in society, you can't dismiss it as someone else's job.

Agree with the sentiment entirely and I am someone who would intervene subject to a quick assessment of whether I am able to deal with any fallout. My concern is for those who are very well meaning and end up escalating a situation that they are not equipped to deal with

That's a selfish way of thinking. It's not the person stepping in that is already at risk, it's the person already being attacked. "

I'm a retired police officer. I saw well meaning people get hurt trying to help out, actually murdered in one particular incident that haunts me. We are talking about verbal abuse here, if someone is physically at risk then I would urge anyone to intervene. My point is that a noble intervention may result in physical violence that wouldn't have otherwise occurred. It can be reported later, police have whop units dedicated to dealing with hate allegations.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Do you not think if more people set an example of what is acceptable, then those who have previously gotten away with bad behaviour will start to reconsider?

Also, the police aren't always present. We all have a duty in society, you can't dismiss it as someone else's job.

Agree with the sentiment entirely and I am someone who would intervene subject to a quick assessment of whether I am able to deal with any fallout. My concern is for those who are very well meaning and end up escalating a situation that they are not equipped to deal with

That's a selfish way of thinking. It's not the person stepping in that is already at risk, it's the person already being attacked.

I'm a retired police officer. I saw well meaning people get hurt trying to help out, actually murdered in one particular incident that haunts me. We are talking about verbal abuse here, if someone is physically at risk then I would urge anyone to intervene. My point is that a noble intervention may result in physical violence that wouldn't have otherwise occurred. It can be reported later, police have whop units dedicated to dealing with hate allegations."

Whole units not whop units ! That's probably something else altogether !

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk


"Do you not think if more people set an example of what is acceptable, then those who have previously gotten away with bad behaviour will start to reconsider?

Also, the police aren't always present. We all have a duty in society, you can't dismiss it as someone else's job.

Agree with the sentiment entirely and I am someone who would intervene subject to a quick assessment of whether I am able to deal with any fallout. My concern is for those who are very well meaning and end up escalating a situation that they are not equipped to deal with

That's a selfish way of thinking. It's not the person stepping in that is already at risk, it's the person already being attacked. "

The person stepping in is at risk. Together they're at less risk than the individual alone, often, but never doubt that stepping in can be risky.

I've gotten myself into grief in the past this way. Fortunately I've gotten out of it without serious consequences (to me, at least) but it remains a possibility in the future that I could bite off more than I can chew.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Him

Working in the building trade I have and do hear and witness guy's being racial and homophobic alot.

I have lost count of the amount of times I have got into arguments and been threatened coz I have dared to call them out and challenge their bigotry.

I have been bullied and the object of ridicule on site for standing up against it.

But speaking as someone who was almost beaten to death by the national front in the 80's coz I dared to have non white friends at a time when tension was very high in the part of London I grew up in.

I feel very strongly on the matter.

As for stepping in, hell yes. I am 100kgs and pretty much solid muscle, I would not think twice about helping out.

But would always aim to find a diplomatic and non violent course of action before resorting to physical intervention.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Do you not think if more people set an example of what is acceptable, then those who have previously gotten away with bad behaviour will start to reconsider?

Also, the police aren't always present. We all have a duty in society, you can't dismiss it as someone else's job.

Agree with the sentiment entirely and I am someone who would intervene subject to a quick assessment of whether I am able to deal with any fallout. My concern is for those who are very well meaning and end up escalating a situation that they are not equipped to deal with

That's a selfish way of thinking. It's not the person stepping in that is already at risk, it's the person already being attacked.

The person stepping in is at risk. Together they're at less risk than the individual alone, often, but never doubt that stepping in can be risky.

I've gotten myself into grief in the past this way. Fortunately I've gotten out of it without serious consequences (to me, at least) but it remains a possibility in the future that I could bite off more than I can chew."

My point is that some situations it's appropriate, and others you could make it a whole lot worse. I never set out to say don't do anything, but I don't think everyone has the ability to see when it's appropriate to intervene or to challenge in a way that will not escalate the situation.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Do you not think if more people set an example of what is acceptable, then those who have previously gotten away with bad behaviour will start to reconsider?

Also, the police aren't always present. We all have a duty in society, you can't dismiss it as someone else's job.

Agree with the sentiment entirely and I am someone who would intervene subject to a quick assessment of whether I am able to deal with any fallout. My concern is for those who are very well meaning and end up escalating a situation that they are not equipped to deal with

That's a selfish way of thinking. It's not the person stepping in that is already at risk, it's the person already being attacked.

The person stepping in is at risk. Together they're at less risk than the individual alone, often, but never doubt that stepping in can be risky.

I've gotten myself into grief in the past this way. Fortunately I've gotten out of it without serious consequences (to me, at least) but it remains a possibility in the future that I could bite off more than I can chew."

I think you misunderstood me. I mean you'd be ignoring someone at risk because you're potentially putting yourself at risk. It's just so selfish.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

If it's just verbal abuse I may well not intervene directly.

I would hang around to ensure it didn't escalate, to check the victim is ok afterwards and to offer my contact details in case they intend to report it and want me as a witness.

I'd have absolutely no problem providing a witness statement or, ultimately, if it came to that, testimony.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk


"Do you not think if more people set an example of what is acceptable, then those who have previously gotten away with bad behaviour will start to reconsider?

Also, the police aren't always present. We all have a duty in society, you can't dismiss it as someone else's job.

Agree with the sentiment entirely and I am someone who would intervene subject to a quick assessment of whether I am able to deal with any fallout. My concern is for those who are very well meaning and end up escalating a situation that they are not equipped to deal with

That's a selfish way of thinking. It's not the person stepping in that is already at risk, it's the person already being attacked.

The person stepping in is at risk. Together they're at less risk than the individual alone, often, but never doubt that stepping in can be risky.

I've gotten myself into grief in the past this way. Fortunately I've gotten out of it without serious consequences (to me, at least) but it remains a possibility in the future that I could bite off more than I can chew.

My point is that some situations it's appropriate, and others you could make it a whole lot worse. I never set out to say don't do anything, but I don't think everyone has the ability to see when it's appropriate to intervene or to challenge in a way that will not escalate the situation.

"

Agreed. Advising caution is entirely sensible.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Do you not think if more people set an example of what is acceptable, then those who have previously gotten away with bad behaviour will start to reconsider?

Also, the police aren't always present. We all have a duty in society, you can't dismiss it as someone else's job. "

Indeed

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Him

Working in the building trade I have and do hear and witness guy's being racial and homophobic alot.

I have lost count of the amount of times I have got into arguments and been threatened coz I have dared to call them out and challenge their bigotry.

I have been bullied and the object of ridicule on site for standing up against it.

But speaking as someone who was almost beaten to death by the national front in the 80's coz I dared to have non white friends at a time when tension was very high in the part of London I grew up in.

I feel very strongly on the matter.

As for stepping in, hell yes. I am 100kgs and pretty much solid muscle, I would not think twice about helping out.

But would always aim to find a diplomatic and non violent course of action before resorting to physical intervention. "

Someone like you is the kind of person able to recognise and deal with these situations in an appropriate manner. My point is that some people may not be able to but take the noble approach nevertheless, and make the situation worse.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *SweetVioletxWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool

I always step up - considered, confident and cautious intervention - if more people did then it would improve society as a whole.

It's the standing back, nothing to do with me, someone else will deal with it attitude which enables the bullies of this world to survive. They see inaction as a sigh that their behaviour is acceptable and continue to inflict it on others.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

I should add that if everyone were trained in conflict resolution I would also urge everyone to intervene.

However having seen the effect of well meaning bystanders it's not always the best course of action.

I applaud those that do, I think my initial thread may have been misunderstood. My concern with the video is that some people will see it as absolutely essential to intervene on every occasion because Gandalf said so. Sometimes it is the safer and more sensible thing to stand back and offer support after, however if someone looks at risk physically, absolutely intervene

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"I always step up - considered, confident and cautious intervention - if more people did then it would improve society as a whole.

It's the standing back, nothing to do with me, someone else will deal with it attitude which enables the bullies of this world to survive. They see inaction as a sigh that their behaviour is acceptable and continue to inflict it on others."

I couldn't agree more. My thread is purely based on safety

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Reminds me. When I was a kid we were out as a family.

Mum dad two sisters and I.

Driving thru a town and we saw this guy knocking ten bell's of shit out of a woman, dad stops car runs over and drags guy off the woman.

She then proceeds to jump on dad's back and start to bite, scratch and hit him while the guy started laying into him.

Luckily a few other's stepped in and police turned up.

Point being.

You never know exactly why the situation is happening and the outcome.

Be careful and always when possible let the police deal with it if available.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk


"because Gandalf said so"

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"because Gandalf said so

"

Obviously he can eat with anything with his wizardly powers

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"because Gandalf said so

Obviously he can eat with anything with his wizardly powers "

And anything that he can't deal with that way hell just use his mutant magneto powers...

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *erbyDalesCplCouple
over a year ago

Derbyshire

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing"

Edmund Burke.

I hear what you're saying, Mr Bean, but I prefer a society where the police reflect us and serve us, rather than tell us how we should behave.

I have intervened 3 times in my life. The time the lady sought me out afterwards and thanked me more than made up fir the other two times that didn't end so well.

Mr ddc

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


""All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing"

Edmund Burke.

I hear what you're saying, Mr Bean, but I prefer a society where the police reflect us and serve us, rather than tell us how we should behave.

I have intervened 3 times in my life. The time the lady sought me out afterwards and thanked me more than made up fir the other two times that didn't end so well.

Mr ddc"

Seriously you think the police make the rules?

As an ex cop, and a now citizen I think it's good sense to risk assess a situation. I never said don't intervene, just think about it. I've done it as a private person and glad I did.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *icentiousCouple
over a year ago

Up on them there hills

"First they came" from Martin Niemoller comes to mind.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *erbyDalesCplCouple
over a year ago

Derbyshire


"

Seriously you think the police make the rules?

As an ex cop, and a now citizen I think it's good sense to risk assess a situation. I never said don't intervene, just think about it. I've done it as a private person and glad I did. "

Sometimes I think they think they do, yes.

Sometimes they dress it up as "risk assessment" or "the public don't have the proper training" or "society should leave it to the professionals", and maybe I misunderstood your general thrust, but I fear too many people don't need much encouragement to stand idly by, and I felt your warnings were providing just such encouragement.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *radleyandRavenCouple
over a year ago

Herts

Admittedly my attitude has changed since having a baby.

Before, I would've gotten myself into all sorts of bother for anyone but unless it's 1-2 on one or I know I have no chance intervening in said situation (I.e: 3+ blokes beating the shit out of one person), I will phone the police but not intervene.

Call me selfish if you want but now that our lives have changed, I'm not about to risk the possibility of leaving my son without a Mother.

- Amy. x

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *iamondsmiles.Woman
over a year ago

little house on the praire

When I was younger I wouldn't think twice of jumping in the middle of a fight but I wouldn't now, I would take appropriate action and call the local authorities but I don't want to be a dead hero

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

I do speak up. I assess the situation but I do intervene in some way. I always have and if that stops then they have won.

Yes, I get comments from people and worse may happen but I can't let fear of what might happen be the driver. That's how we let things happen.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound


"Him

But would always aim to find a diplomatic and non violent course of action before resorting to physical intervention. "

It would be standing between as a physical intervention from me. As a last resort.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk


"

Seriously you think the police make the rules?

As an ex cop, and a now citizen I think it's good sense to risk assess a situation. I never said don't intervene, just think about it. I've done it as a private person and glad I did.

Sometimes I think they think they do, yes.

Sometimes they dress it up as "risk assessment" or "the public don't have the proper training" or "society should leave it to the professionals", and maybe I misunderstood your general thrust, but I fear too many people don't need much encouragement to stand idly by, and I felt your warnings were providing just such encouragement.

"

I don't think so.

I think it was intended to try to balance the message in the video.

It's not saying don't intervene if someone is being physically attacked, it's advising caution in situations where someone is being harassed or verbally abused but isn't in danger.

It is possible to make situations worse. That's what the OP is asking people to think about.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Usually the perpetrators of hate crimes are cowards and do it when there is little chance of being caught...so letting them know that they have been seen...and you will not just be part of the silent majority will at the very least make them think twice...

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *erbyDalesCplCouple
over a year ago

Derbyshire


"

I don't think so.

I think it was intended to try to balance the message in the video.

It's not saying don't intervene if someone is being physically attacked, it's advising caution in situations where someone is being harassed or verbally abused but isn't in danger.

It is possible to make situations worse. That's what the OP is asking people to think about."

You may be right, and I may have latched onto 'leave it to the professionals' in the initial post and given it too much weight. But it all read a bit too much "Police Federation" to me, and they always manage to get a rise out of me.

(And not in that way. )

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"

I don't think so.

I think it was intended to try to balance the message in the video.

It's not saying don't intervene if someone is being physically attacked, it's advising caution in situations where someone is being harassed or verbally abused but isn't in danger.

It is possible to make situations worse. That's what the OP is asking people to think about.

You may be right, and I may have latched onto 'leave it to the professionals' in the initial post and given it too much weight. But it all read a bit too much "Police Federation" to me, and they always manage to get a rise out of me.

(And not in that way. )"

I'd like people to understand that I was sharing my experience gained over a long period of time. Not trying to put an authoritarian spin on it, I would never tell people what to do or not, it's an individual decision. And as for the police federation, don't get me started, they never did anything for real cops, and don't provode a realistic view of what real cops think.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"

I don't think so.

I think it was intended to try to balance the message in the video.

It's not saying don't intervene if someone is being physically attacked, it's advising caution in situations where someone is being harassed or verbally abused but isn't in danger.

It is possible to make situations worse. That's what the OP is asking people to think about.

You may be right, and I may have latched onto 'leave it to the professionals' in the initial post and given it too much weight. But it all read a bit too much "Police Federation" to me, and they always manage to get a rise out of me.

(And not in that way. )"

However I would urge caution when fishing naked; those hooks......

And in fairness whilst being naked or semi naked in public, especially up a ladder.....

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *empting Devil.Woman
over a year ago

Sheffield

First they came for the Socialists and i did not speak out because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was a not a Jew.

Then they came for me - and there was no one left to speak for me.

Martin Niemoller.

In the week of the anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz the words of a man who suffered Sachenhausen and Dachau are just as current as they were 70 years ago.

No Jews were sent to concentration camps from Denmark because the populace would not allow it. Stand up to prejudice and hate, do not allow it in your community. If you won't speak out who will?

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"First they came for the Socialists and i did not speak out because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was a not a Jew.

Then they came for me - and there was no one left to speak for me.

Martin Niemoller.

In the week of the anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz the words of a man who suffered Sachenhausen and Dachau are just as current as they were 70 years ago.

No Jews were sent to concentration camps from Denmark because the populace would not allow it. Stand up to prejudice and hate, do not allow it in your community. If you won't speak out who will?"

Read the thread. No one is saying don't stand up for anyone. I think you have the old thread disease of selective reading coupled with a severe case of Self righteousness, abusing historical quotes to back up your assertion (out of context in this case)

See the forum doctor who will advice 2 paracetamol and a little lay down

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *ike4362ukMan
over a year ago

Cheshunt

Everybody can think of situations where it simply isn't sensible to intervene in situations. But those type of incidents aren't what this is aimed at. Serious incidents are best dealt with by the police or exercising extreme caution. That said, I'm big enough and ugly enough that most people think twice about kicking off with me, even though I have a generally placid demeanour.

It's more the little things. The comments and 'witticisms' at work or when out with friends. The ill informed comments that are fuelled by elements in the media. Challenging bigotry has brought about serious changes in the way we view violence, sexism and racism over the last 40 years. Folks of my generation or older will remember the Black and White Minstrals, On the Buses, Love Thy Neighbour, and other seriously fucked up TV shows, or times of organised football hooliganism.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Everybody can think of situations where it simply isn't sensible to intervene in situations. But those type of incidents aren't what this is aimed at. Serious incidents are best dealt with by the police or exercising extreme caution. That said, I'm big enough and ugly enough that most people think twice about kicking off with me, even though I have a generally placid demeanour.

It's more the little things. The comments and 'witticisms' at work or when out with friends. The i

ll informed comments that are fuelled by elements in the media. Challenging bigotry has brought about serious changes in the way we view violence, sexism and racism over the last 40 years. Folks of my generation or older will remember the Black and White Minstrals, On the Buses, Love Thy Neighbour, and other seriously fucked up TV shows, or times of organised football hooliganism."

I completely agree with the author,moo many have read my initial post as never do anything, I think they need to read the thread for context.

I agree with you regarding past prejudices and ignorance, we have become a better society for inclusiveness. But I won't beat up my forefathers who were fed a line by society and the media, this stuff was of its time. It's about looking forward

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *an_WoodMan
over a year ago

Stafford

Mobile phone camera footage has increased the risks for these people of being prosecuted

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *empting Devil.Woman
over a year ago

Sheffield


"First they came for the Socialists and i did not speak out because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was a not a Jew.

Then they came for me - and there was no one left to speak for me.

Martin Niemoller.

In the week of the anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz the words of a man who suffered Sachenhausen and Dachau are just as current as they were 70 years ago.

No Jews were sent to concentration camps from Denmark because the populace would not allow it. Stand up to prejudice and hate, do not allow it in your community. If you won't speak out who will?

Read the thread. No one is saying don't stand up for anyone. I think you have the old thread disease of selective reading coupled with a severe case of Self righteousness, abusing historical quotes to back up your assertion (out of context in this case)

See the forum doctor who will advice 2 paracetamol and a little lay down

"

Speaking out against bullying, bigotry and injustice even at personal risk was the issue. I read the whole thread and since Edmund Burke had been quoted but Martin Niemoller only referenced I felt it was the place to quote him.

And I'm meet with a bullying attempt to put me in my place.

Bravo OP, you're a shining example to all of us.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *radleyandRavenCouple
over a year ago

Herts


"Everybody can think of situations where it simply isn't sensible to intervene in situations. But those type of incidents aren't what this is aimed at. Serious incidents are best dealt with by the police or exercising extreme caution. That said, I'm big enough and ugly enough that most people think twice about kicking off with me, even though I have a generally placid demeanour.

It's more the little things. The comments and 'witticisms' at work or when out with friends. The i

ll informed comments that are fuelled by elements in the media. Challenging bigotry has brought about serious changes in the way we view violence, sexism and racism over the last 40 years. Folks of my generation or older will remember the Black and White Minstrals, On the Buses, Love Thy Neighbour, and other seriously fucked up TV shows, or times of organised football hooliganism.

I completely agree with the author,moo many have read my initial post as never do anything, I think they need to read the thread for context.

I agree with you regarding past prejudices and ignorance, we have become a better society for inclusiveness. But I won't beat up my forefathers who were fed a line by society and the media, this stuff was of its time. It's about looking forward "

I can't concentrate on what you're saying thanks to your AMAZING THIGHS!!!

- Amy. x

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *erbyDalesCplCouple
over a year ago

Derbyshire


"First they came for the Socialists and i did not speak out because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was a not a Jew.

Then they came for me - and there was no one left to speak for me.

Martin Niemoller.

In the week of the anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz the words of a man who suffered Sachenhausen and Dachau are just as current as they were 70 years ago.

No Jews were sent to concentration camps from Denmark because the populace would not allow it. Stand up to prejudice and hate, do not allow it in your community. If you won't speak out who will?

Read the thread. No one is saying don't stand up for anyone. I think you have the old thread disease of selective reading coupled with a severe case of Self righteousness, abusing historical quotes to back up your assertion (out of context in this case)

See the forum doctor who will advice 2 paracetamol and a little lay down

"

Ooh, may I therefore step up and (rather ironically) say that I felt that answer was a little sexist and belittling.

To be fair your initial posts talked only of the dangers of speaking out, including being murdered, and where you said you were all for people standing up, it was only if they had been properly trained in conflict resolution!

I actually find women quite good at defusing such situations, eg Lee Rigby.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *erbyDalesCplCouple
over a year ago

Derbyshire

Bums, too late, curse the slow fat fingers

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *empting Devil.Woman
over a year ago

Sheffield


"First they came for the Socialists and i did not speak out because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was a not a Jew.

Then they came for me - and there was no one left to speak for me.

Martin Niemoller.

In the week of the anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz the words of a man who suffered Sachenhausen and Dachau are just as current as they were 70 years ago.

No Jews were sent to concentration camps from Denmark because the populace would not allow it. Stand up to prejudice and hate, do not allow it in your community. If you won't speak out who will?

Read the thread. No one is saying don't stand up for anyone. I think you have the old thread disease of selective reading coupled with a severe case of Self righteousness, abusing historical quotes to back up your assertion (out of context in this case)

See the forum doctor who will advice 2 paracetamol and a little lay down

Ooh, may I therefore step up and (rather ironically) say that I felt that answer was a little sexist and belittling.

To be fair your initial posts talked only of the dangers of speaking out, including being murdered, and where you said you were all for people standing up, it was only if they had been properly trained in conflict resolution!

I actually find women quite good at defusing such situations, eg Lee Rigby.

"

I will add that in such situations once one person stands up then others often join them, again as in the Lee Rigby case.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Everybody can think of situations where it simply isn't sensible to intervene in situations. But those type of incidents aren't what this is aimed at. Serious incidents are best dealt with by the police or exercising extreme caution. That said, I'm big enough and ugly enough that most people think twice about kicking off with me, even though I have a generally placid demeanour.

It's more the little things. The comments and 'witticisms' at work or when out with friends. The i

ll informed comments that are fuelled by elements in the media. Challenging bigotry has brought about serious changes in the way we view violence, sexism and racism over the last 40 years. Folks of my generation or older will remember the Black and White Minstrals, On the Buses, Love Thy Neighbour, and other seriously fucked up TV shows, or times of organised football hooliganism.

I completely agree with the author,moo many have read my initial post as never do anything, I think they need to read the thread for context.

I agree with you regarding past prejudices and ignorance, we have become a better society for inclusiveness. But I won't beat up my forefathers who were fed a line by society and the media, this stuff was of its time. It's about looking forward

I can't concentrate on what you're saying thanks to your AMAZING THIGHS!!!

- Amy. x"

Hmmm, common condition, thigh bilndness, 2 paracetamols and a lay down

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"First they came for the Socialists and i did not speak out because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was a not a Jew.

Then they came for me - and there was no one left to speak for me.

Martin Niemoller.

In the week of the anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz the words of a man who suffered Sachenhausen and Dachau are just as current as they were 70 years ago.

No Jews were sent to concentration camps from Denmark because the populace would not allow it. Stand up to prejudice and hate, do not allow it in your community. If you won't speak out who will?

Read the thread. No one is saying don't stand up for anyone. I think you have the old thread disease of selective reading coupled with a severe case of Self righteousness, abusing historical quotes to back up your assertion (out of context in this case)

See the forum doctor who will advice 2 paracetamol and a little lay down

Ooh, may I therefore step up and (rather ironically) say that I felt that answer was a little sexist and belittling.

To be fair your initial posts talked only of the dangers of speaking out, including being murdered, and where you said you were all for people standing up, it was only if they had been properly trained in conflict resolution!

I actually find women quite good at defusing such situations, eg Lee Rigby.

"

Some people will see prejudice wherever they look if they want to. Perhaps I'm being sexist writing this to you if its the female I am addressing it to. If it's the male perhaps I'm not.

Ther was no sexism in my comments. Tell me where it is, I could have equally made that comment to a man. Would that have been sexist too?

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *erbyDalesCplCouple
over a year ago

Derbyshire


"

Some people will see prejudice wherever they look if they want to. Perhaps I'm being sexist writing this to you if its the female I am addressing it to. If it's the male perhaps I'm not.

Ther was no sexism in my comments. Tell me where it is, I could have equally made that comment to a man. Would that have been sexist too? "

Okay, for the avoidance of doubt:

We always.sign the initial post on a thread, so you know who you are talking to. I am Mr ddc, the male. Once I have introduced myself, I don't feel the need to keep doing so.

I fear in this instance you have me muddled with Tempting Devil, who is clearly female, and you may have your threads crossed.

I felt your response to her "there, there, have a little lie down" did not follow the same way as you answered the men who have disagreed with you. I may be wrong, but I felt vindicated once I noticed she too had felt the same.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *rtemisiaWoman
over a year ago

Norwich


"Very few people will say anything. At Wembley watching a game with 4 young lads some arsehole behind me spent the whole match using homophobic, racist and anti-semetic language. I eventually told him to shut up, got a load of abuse, reported him to the stewards but no one supported me. Funnily enough he pretty much stopped after I confronted him."

Well done!

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *empting Devil.Woman
over a year ago

Sheffield


"First they came for the Socialists and i did not speak out because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was a not a Jew.

Then they came for me - and there was no one left to speak for me.

Martin Niemoller.

In the week of the anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz the words of a man who suffered Sachenhausen and Dachau are just as current as they were 70 years ago.

No Jews were sent to concentration camps from Denmark because the populace would not allow it. Stand up to prejudice and hate, do not allow it in your community. If you won't speak out who will?

Read the thread. No one is saying don't stand up for anyone. I think you have the old thread disease of selective reading coupled with a severe case of Self righteousness, abusing historical quotes to back up your assertion (out of context in this case)

See the forum doctor who will advice 2 paracetamol and a little lay down

Ooh, may I therefore step up and (rather ironically) say that I felt that answer was a little sexist and belittling.

To be fair your initial posts talked only of the dangers of speaking out, including being murdered, and where you said you were all for people standing up, it was only if they had been properly trained in conflict resolution!

I actually find women quite good at defusing such situations, eg Lee Rigby.

Some people will see prejudice wherever they look if they want to. Perhaps I'm being sexist writing this to you if its the female I am addressing it to. If it's the male perhaps I'm not.

Ther was no sexism in my comments. Tell me where it is, I could have equally made that comment to a man. Would that have been sexist too? "

I suspect the OP was attempting witty forum banter. Unfortunately it read as condescension not banter and was, in my opinion, ill-judged on a thread about whether individuals should stand up to bigots and bullies.

As for your suggestion OP that I being self-righteous, that I dispute. A little pompous perhaps, but not self-righteous.

I'm perplexed about why you think I was abusing historical quotes and how that quote is out of context?

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *iamondsmiles.Woman
over a year ago

little house on the praire


"First they came for the Socialists and i did not speak out because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was a not a Jew.

Then they came for me - and there was no one left to speak for me.

Martin Niemoller.

In the week of the anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz the words of a man who suffered Sachenhausen and Dachau are just as current as they were 70 years ago.

No Jews were sent to concentration camps from Denmark because the populace would not allow it. Stand up to prejudice and hate, do not allow it in your community. If you won't speak out who will?

Read the thread. No one is saying don't stand up for anyone. I think you have the old thread disease of selective reading coupled with a severe case of Self righteousness, abusing historical quotes to back up your assertion (out of context in this case)

See the forum doctor who will advice 2 paracetamol and a little lay down

Ooh, may I therefore step up and (rather ironically) say that I felt that answer was a little sexist and belittling.

To be fair your initial posts talked only of the dangers of speaking out, including being murdered, and where you said you were all for people standing up, it was only if they had been properly trained in conflict resolution!

I actually find women quite good at defusing such situations, eg Lee Rigby.

Some people will see prejudice wherever they look if they want to. Perhaps I'm being sexist writing this to you if its the female I am addressing it to. If it's the male perhaps I'm not.

Ther was no sexism in my comments. Tell me where it is, I could have equally made that comment to a man. Would that have been sexist too?

I suspect the OP was attempting witty forum banter. Unfortunately it read as condescension not banter and was, in my opinion, ill-judged on a thread about whether individuals should stand up to bigots and bullies.

As for your suggestion OP that I being self-righteous, that I dispute. A little pompous perhaps, but not self-righteous.

I'm perplexed about why you think I was abusing historical quotes and how that quote is out of context? "
well it came across as banter to me, and you tempting devil self righteous, never

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"

Some people will see prejudice wherever they look if they want to. Perhaps I'm being sexist writing this to you if its the female I am addressing it to. If it's the male perhaps I'm not.

Ther was no sexism in my comments. Tell me where it is, I could have equally made that comment to a man. Would that have been sexist too?

Okay, for the avoidance of doubt:

We always.sign the initial post on a thread, so you know who you are talking to. I am Mr ddc, the male. Once I have introduced myself, I don't feel the need to keep doing so.

I fear in this instance you have me muddled with Tempting Devil, who is clearly female, and you may have your threads crossed.

I felt your response to her "there, there, have a little lie down" did not follow the same way as you answered the men who have disagreed with you. I may be wrong, but I felt vindicated once I noticed she too had felt the same.

"

No, you were wrong, and that's not me being sexist, but honest

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The only time I stood up for a complete stranger was some woman was getting the shit battered out of her in the street.

Her guy was fucking huge and I do mean huge, i couldn't just walk off, she was screaming... I got fucked right up with a busted eye socket.

Police were called and I don't know what came of it.

Never saw her again.

I'd do it again too.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *UNCHBOXMan
over a year ago

folkestone


"First they came for the Socialists and i did not speak out because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was a not a Jew.

Then they came for me - and there was no one left to speak for me.

Martin Niemoller.

In the week of the anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz the words of a man who suffered Sachenhausen and Dachau are just as current as they were 70 years ago.

No Jews were sent to concentration camps from Denmark because the populace would not allow it. Stand up to prejudice and hate, do not allow it in your community. If you won't speak out who will?

Read the thread. No one is saying don't stand up for anyone. I think you have the old thread disease of selective reading coupled with a severe case of Self righteousness, abusing historical quotes to back up your assertion (out of context in this case)

See the forum doctor who will advice 2 paracetamol and a little lay down

Ooh, may I therefore step up and (rather ironically) say that I felt that answer was a little sexist and belittling.

To be fair your initial posts talked only of the dangers of speaking out, including being murdered, and where you said you were all for people standing up, it was only if they had been properly trained in conflict resolution!

I actually find women quite good at defusing such situations, eg Lee Rigby.

I will add that in such situations once one person stands up then others often join them, again as in the Lee Rigby case."

That is what is called social proof in psychology terms. People look to others about what to do.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *ensualtouch15Man
over a year ago

ashby de la zouch


"Has anyone else seen this short video with Sir Ian's voiceover urging people to intervene if they hear someone using racist, homophobic or any 'hate' abuse based on the other individuals race creed, sexuality, disability etc

I feel it's well intentioned and a noble idea. However I do fear for the safety of individuals who follow this advice blindly. The NF skinhead supporter may not take criticism well and turn violent. The victim may actually want to deal with it themselves and not welcome your input. The police are empowered to deal with hate crime, why not leave it to them?.

Any thoughts? "

I've been doing it for 2 decades xx has my full support xx

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *erbyDalesCplCouple
over a year ago

Derbyshire


" that's not me being sexist, but honest "
Really? Think you'd have been better to play the "lol, it's just forum banter, guv" card. Otherwise it still looks like casual sexism, cocking-up analysing the available evidence, and refusing to admit when you may have an honest mistake. What did you say your job used to be again?


" No, you were wrong "

About what? How I felt? Having a different opinion? Or just life in general?

Come now, even you must see irony in this, and now in you having a go at me when I dared say something!

Mr (male) ddc (DerbyDalesCouple)

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I can see the OP's point. I'm someone who does tend to speak up, which is fine if I'm calm and sober and consider the situation rationally. I have been known to wade into something while d*unk on a night out though, which probably escalated the situation and didn't help anyone. The basic message of the video is good though.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Ps "take 2 paracetamol and have a lie down" - belittling: probably, sexist: no.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *erbyDalesCplCouple
over a year ago

Derbyshire


"Ps "take 2 paracetamol and have a lie down" - belittling: probably, sexist: no. "

But isn't choosing to only belittle the women sexist?

This sticking up for people is harder than I thought!

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Ps "take 2 paracetamol and have a lie down" - belittling: probably, sexist: no.

But isn't choosing to only belittle the women sexist?

This sticking up for people is harder than I thought!

"

I re-read the thread and didn't read it that way, but perhaps I shouldn't be wading into it

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *erbyDalesCplCouple
over a year ago

Derbyshire


"Ps "take 2 paracetamol and have a lie down" - belittling: probably, sexist: no.

But isn't choosing to only belittle the women sexist?

This sticking up for people is harder than I thought!

I re-read the thread and didn't read it that way, but perhaps I shouldn't be wading into it "

Lol

But then again, I've been called sexist for assuming that a woman needs a man to stand up for her! So maybe discretion is the better part of valour here!

{backs slowly towards the door}

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

In my opinion the people who turn a blind eye are enabling the culprits, we need to atleast show our intentions are not that of the culprit, but again.. You may be putting yourself in danger, people get hurt for things as little as disagreeing with someone, there is a fine line between safety and turning a blind eye, I believe the best way to deal with a situation is in numbers.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

We've come a long time way in what has been tolerated as normal acceptable behavior, with regard to hatred. But we still have a long way to go.

I've not seen his message but assume that in many cases it is reasonably safe to step in. There will be some instances where its less safe but ignoring the hurt that others get is not right.

If you'd not let a child suffer, don't let an adult.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


" that's not me being sexist, but honest Really? Think you'd have been better to play the "lol, it's just forum banter, guv" card. Otherwise it still looks like casual sexism, cocking-up analysing the available evidence, and refusing to admit when you may have an honest mistake. What did you say your job used to be again?

No, you were wrong

About what? How I felt? Having a different opinion? Or just life in general?

Come now, even you must see irony in this, and now in you having a go at me when I dared say something!

Mr (male) ddc (DerbyDalesCouple)

"

You have issues

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk


" that's not me being sexist, but honest Really? Think you'd have been better to play the "lol, it's just forum banter, guv" card. Otherwise it still looks like casual sexism, cocking-up analysing the available evidence, and refusing to admit when you may have an honest mistake. What did you say your job used to be again?

No, you were wrong

About what? How I felt? Having a different opinion? Or just life in general?

Come now, even you must see irony in this, and now in you having a go at me when I dared say something!

Mr (male) ddc (DerbyDalesCouple)

You have issues"

Is this an example of conflict resolution?

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"In my opinion the people who turn a blind eye are enabling the culprits, we need to atleast show our intentions are not that of the culprit, but again.. You may be putting yourself in danger, people get hurt for things as little as disagreeing with someone, there is a fine line between safety and turning a blind eye, I believe the best way to deal with a situation is in numbers."

Yes, groups of people should take to the streets and enforce the ideals of tolerance and understanding on those who show signs of not having got the message clearly enough.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk


"In my opinion the people who turn a blind eye are enabling the culprits, we need to atleast show our intentions are not that of the culprit, but again.. You may be putting yourself in danger, people get hurt for things as little as disagreeing with someone, there is a fine line between safety and turning a blind eye, I believe the best way to deal with a situation is in numbers.

Yes, groups of people should take to the streets and enforce the ideals of tolerance and understanding on those who show signs of not having got the message clearly enough."

I'm in. Would a pick axe handle or a baseball bat go best with this outfit?

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


" that's not me being sexist, but honest Really? Think you'd have been better to play the "lol, it's just forum banter, guv" card. Otherwise it still looks like casual sexism, cocking-up analysing the available evidence, and refusing to admit when you may have an honest mistake. What did you say your job used to be again?

No, you were wrong

About what? How I felt? Having a different opinion? Or just life in general?

Come now, even you must see irony in this, and now in you having a go at me when I dared say something!

Mr (male) ddc (DerbyDalesCouple)

You have issues

Is this an example of conflict resolution? "

It's an example of honesty.....

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Yes, groups of people should take to the streets and enforce the ideals of tolerance and understanding on those who show signs of not having got the message clearly enough."

Im not suggesting we start a gang and call ourselves the justice league, all I'm saying is if all the people within eye sight of what ever commotion is going on, came together to try and stop what's going on.. Instead of just staring or even reaching for there phone to record.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
Post new Message to Thread
back to top