FabSwingers.com forum: Facebook fusiliers win again resorting to threats

By *coutin4girlz OP Man
over a year ago

Moo-Moo land :-)

After thinking that commonsense has finally returned to our shores then On-line come the facebook fusiliers,this time resorting to threats against innocent peoples families. I've yet to hear one sensible,rational reason why Ched Evans should not be allowed to return to his career after serving his sentence just the same as many other people that make him look like an angel have been allowed to. We all know what he did was wrong but he's been punished according to our law n wasn't handed a life sentence like the facebook fusiliers seem to want to hand out in their kangaroo court. Can anyone give me a good reason why please?....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Jealousy, if he was a (insert lower paid job here) there wouldn't be half the fuss about it. Also I suspect a desire to make themselves feel better about their own views by taking the alleged moral high ground.

Of course I could be wrong?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What about the fact that the hasn't served his sentence and is only just over half way through it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"What about the fact that the hasn't served his sentence and is only just over half way through it. "

this

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 08/01/15 18:42:55]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Or that he holds a very public job and is an icon and role model for our youth

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Are you seriously asking!!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 08/01/15 18:46:00]

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By *coutin4girlz OP Man
over a year ago

Moo-Moo land :-)

"[Removed by poster at 08/01/15 18:46:00]"
Spot on,even murderers...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"What about the fact that the hasn't served his sentence and is only just over half way through it. "

This. Plus serving a sentence and going through rehabilitation doesn't mean he has the right to return to his prior job. A convicted rapist couldn’t be a teacher, doctor or police officer. There aren't many companies that would allow you to walk straight back into your job after leaving jail. He committed a crime (as found by a jury) that people find abhorrent, you have to understand people won't forget that and will dislike him as a result.

I don't understand why he's putting himself or his victim through this. It's farcical, he should just move on and find a job that isn't controversial like other rapists.

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By *olly RogererMan
over a year ago

Braintree

Whilst i dont entirely disagree with the train of thought, i do believe that some professions simply are not viable to return to after certain crimes.

Football being the family game and acting as role models for the younger generation being one! That said however, many a footballer has spent time at her majestys pleasure, tony adams for one and he became england captain!

Ofcourse his crime was DD but the powers that be i.e F.A seem to think thats a lesser crime. Maybe it is? Lee hughes, joey barton to name a few more.

Mike tyson was sentenced for rape and returned to the public eye so why is football any different?

However if a priest was sentenced for child pornography would you have the same "he served his sentence" attitude?

The biggest problem for me with it all is the grey areas. As mentioned some return and some are not allowed, there seems to be no real structure and its "however i feel" rules.

That been said Evans still says he is innocent and part of me believes this so hopefully something positive will happen

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

His career is over thanks to what he done,, he wrecked a woman's life possibly for the rest of her days,,then he served only half of a jail sentence, you ask why??? The bloke is a sex offender and should be treated as one,, how would you feel if he came out the tunnel holding your daughters hand???

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By *coutin4girlz OP Man
over a year ago

Moo-Moo land :-)

"Or that he holds a very public job and is an icon and role model for our youth "
So what about our loveable cockney scumbag Dirty Den (Leslie Grantham) ? He shot a German taxi driver through the head n served ten years out of a 'real' life sentence before becoming one of Eastenders's most popular characters ever...Or is Murdering an innocent guy somehow less serious than a 'dodgy' rape conviction? Many more people watch Eastenders than Oldham Athletic n hes involved in two of the 'top ten best ever' Eastenders plots..so what was that you was saying again please? Why is it ok for the BBC to glorify this murderer then?

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By *randmrsminxyCouple
over a year ago

Gloucester

"After thinking that commonsense has finally returned to our shores then On-line come the facebook fusiliers,this time resorting to threats against innocent peoples families. I've yet to hear one sensible,rational reason why Ched Evans should not be allowed to return to his career after serving his sentence just the same as many other people that make him look like an angel have been allowed to. We all know what he did was wrong but he's been punished according to our law n wasn't handed a life sentence like the facebook fusiliers seem to want to hand out in their kangaroo court. Can anyone give me a good reason why please?...."

So , if in the future your daughter brought a ched evans home in the similar situation and said dad meet my new boyfriend you would be a happy day ????

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

For the people who are under the misconception that his sentence was over the second he left jail this is not the case. He has been released under license and is to serve the rest of his term on probation. Any further offence or breach of the license and he is back inside.

His sentence has about another two and a half years left to run. Then you can come up with the argument that he has served his sentence.

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By *randmrsminxyCouple
over a year ago

Gloucester

So , if in the future your daughter brought a ched evans home in the similar situation and said dad meet my new boyfriend you would be a happy day ????"
sorry mean-- dad

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Or that he holds a very public job and is an icon and role model for our youth So what about our loveable cockney scumbag Dirty Den (Leslie Grantham) ? He shot a German taxi driver through the head n served ten years out of a 'real' life sentence before becoming one of Eastenders's most popular characters ever...Or is Murdering an innocent guy somehow less serious than a 'dodgy' rape conviction? Many more people watch Eastenders than Oldham Athletic n hes involved in two of the 'top ten best ever' Eastenders plots..so what was that you was saying again please? Why is it ok for the BBC to glorify this murderer then?

Stupid argument. Just because something has happened, doesn't mean it should happen. It is not the norm to accept a criminal back into society with open arms.

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By *yrdwomanWoman
over a year ago

Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum

Not sure why the OP is using 'Fusiliers' as a derogatory term.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I do think they should of waited until the outcome of his appeal before offering him a position at a football club

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It is an, erm, interesting trial and quite unusual. Whatever your views on it, he was convicted (however you may view faith in our jury system). I do not think that any non-league club would sign him at the moment.

But that is nothing to do with "facebook fusiliers." Is it not more to do with public perception?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

How was it dodgy. A unanimous decision by a jury is hardly dodgy.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I do think they should of waited until the outcome of his appeal before offering him a position at a football club"

He hasn't been allowed an appeal. He has asked for a review of the trial. He appeal was refused.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

How was it dodgy. A unanimous decision by a jury is hardly dodgy. "

Winds me up when people call jury decisions "dodgy". It's people just like them that make up juries, and I doubt they call their decisions "dodgy". Doesn't make sense.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I do think they should of waited until the outcome of his appeal before offering him a position at a football club

He hasn't been allowed an appeal. He has asked for a review of the trial. He appeal was refused. "
appeal, review, tomato, tomatoe

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I do think they should of waited until the outcome of his appeal before offering him a position at a football club

He hasn't been allowed an appeal. He has asked for a review of the trial. He appeal was refused. appeal, review, tomato, tomatoe

Let's call the whole thing off.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

He was shit footballer before his conviction so why the hoohah anyway? He's still gonna be a shit footballer and a convicted rapist on top of that. Hardly a role model to the youth of today who hold footballers in such high esteem.

If he's that desperate to play again, he should go abroad where the baggage that comes with him won't be as relevant to the supporters of whatever minor tampax, two bob league outfit he ends up playing for.

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By *coutin4girlz OP Man
over a year ago

Moo-Moo land :-)

"What about the fact that the hasn't served his sentence and is only just over half way through it.

I don't understand why he's putting himself or his victim through this. It's farcical, he should just move on and find a job that isn't controversial like other rapists. "
He's a lower league footballer tho not a teacher,doctor or police officer n hardly anyone would of heard of him if it wasn't for all the hysteria whipped up by the fusiliers n certain media outlets including the BBC who bring Eastenders n 'Dirty Den' to our screens but I wont stop there I'll give you a few more high profile fugures now when I've read a few more comments..ta x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I do think they should of waited until the outcome of his appeal before offering him a position at a football club

He hasn't been allowed an appeal. He has asked for a review of the trial. He appeal was refused. appeal, review, tomato, tomatoe

Let's call the whole thing off. "
And funnily enough, that's not the shortest meet I've had lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"What about the fact that the hasn't served his sentence and is only just over half way through it.

I don't understand why he's putting himself or his victim through this. It's farcical, he should just move on and find a job that isn't controversial like other rapists. He's a lower league footballer tho not a teacher,doctor or police officer n hardly anyone would of heard of him if it wasn't for all the hysteria whipped up by the fusiliers n certain media outlets including the BBC who bring Eastenders n 'Dirty Den' to our screens but I wont stop there I'll give you a few more high profile fugures now when I've read a few more comments..ta x"

But it doesn't matter. This is a case by case thing. People find him disgusting and dislike the fact that he still professes his innocence despite the clear evidence against him (and the guilty verdict). It's silly to expect everything to be swept under the rug when it's still so very raw.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Sooo many things to say but just laughing so hard at the OP's comments/opinions (as usual) that I can barely type....

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By *olly RogererMan
over a year ago

Braintree

As for the guilty verdict. I wonder what peoples thought are on the fact the the only 2 witnesses both said it was consensual? But a self admitted "plastered women" got the jury verdict!

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

I am not going to condone those people who made threats against the people at oldham football clubs....

again you made ched evans out to be the victim... and that really annoys me

you made it seem so flippant about what he did being wrong.... its a shame that he doesn't see it that way....

so lets talk about the true victim....

she has had to move home FIVE times because of being hounded by Ched Evans apologists....

she has had to change her name FIVE times because Ched Evans apologists keep hounding and outing her on Facebook (ironic bearing in mind that you called those on the other side of the fence) and on twitter

he gets to sleep in the same bed he did before the attack... she had to flee at christmas after she was yet again named and outed by ched evans apologists...

think about that......

please don't make ched evans the victim here... you are doing true victims a massive disservice!!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"As for the guilty verdict. I wonder what peoples thought are on the fact the the only 2 witnesses both said it was consensual? But a self admitted "plastered women" got the jury verdict!"

the video evidence is pretty damning.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"He was shit footballer before his conviction so why the hoohah anyway? He's still gonna be a shit footballer and a convicted rapist on top of that. Hardly a role model to the youth of today who hold footballers in such high esteem.

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By *olly RogererMan
over a year ago

Braintree

"As for the guilty verdict. I wonder what peoples thought are on the fact the the only 2 witnesses both said it was consensual? But a self admitted "plastered women" got the jury verdict!

the video evidence is pretty damning. "

But is it? A cctv camera in the foyer of a hotel which shows them walking into the hotel before evans. I dont remember seeing her being dragged by the hair?

But again im not diagreeing, just wondering about the other side of the story.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"As for the guilty verdict. I wonder what peoples thought are on the fact the the only 2 witnesses both said it was consensual? But a self admitted "plastered women" got the jury verdict!"

I didn't realise you could consent to sex on behalf of another person. When was that made law ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"As for the guilty verdict. I wonder what peoples thought are on the fact the the only 2 witnesses both said it was consensual? But a self admitted "plastered women" got the jury verdict!

the video evidence is pretty damning.

But is it? A cctv camera in the foyer of a hotel which shows them walking into the hotel before evans. I dont remember seeing her being dragged by the hair?

But again im not diagreeing, just wondering about the other side of the story."

She didn't enter the hotel with Evans. He blagged his way in later.

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By *olly RogererMan
over a year ago

Braintree

"As for the guilty verdict. I wonder what peoples thought are on the fact the the only 2 witnesses both said it was consensual? But a self admitted "plastered women" got the jury verdict!

I didn't realise you could consent to sex on behalf of another person. When was that made law ?"

I didnt say you could did I? I actually said 2 witnesses said it was consensual..meaning they believe she said yes..and if my memory is correct didnt she sleep with 1 or both of them (also footballers)

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By *olly RogererMan
over a year ago

Braintree

"As for the guilty verdict. I wonder what peoples thought are on the fact the the only 2 witnesses both said it was consensual? But a self admitted "plastered women" got the jury verdict!

the video evidence is pretty damning.

But is it? A cctv camera in the foyer of a hotel which shows them walking into the hotel before evans. I dont remember seeing her being dragged by the hair?

But again im not diagreeing, just wondering about the other side of the story.

She didn't enter the hotel with Evans. He blagged his way in later. "

Again. I said they entered the hotel BEFORE Evans.

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

the video evidence is pretty damning.

But is it? A cctv camera in the foyer of a hotel which shows them walking into the hotel before evans. I dont remember seeing her being dragged by the hair?

But again im not diagreeing, just wondering about the other side of the story."

cool... lets talk about the site proporting to show all this evidence...

a) it is being bankrolled by the father of the girlfriend of ched evans

b) both the police and the hotel have said they never gave permission for the site to show it... further more the hotel are looking into whether they have take action against the site......

c) the site is currently being investigated by the office of the attorney general on the grounds of being in "contempt of court" in the case

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"As for the guilty verdict. I wonder what peoples thought are on the fact the the only 2 witnesses both said it was consensual? But a self admitted "plastered women" got the jury verdict!

I didn't realise you could consent to sex on behalf of another person. When was that made law ?

Just because other people said in was consensual doesn't make it so. The most important person didn't give consent. That's all that counts.

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By *coutin4girlz OP Man
over a year ago

Moo-Moo land :-)

"Whilst i dont entirely disagree with the train of thought, i do believe that some professions simply are not viable to return to after certain crimes.

Ofcourse his crime was DD but the powers that be i.e F.A seem to think thats a lesser crime. Maybe it is? Lee hughes, joey barton to name a few more.

Mike tyson was sentenced for rape and returned to the public eye so why is football any different?

However if a priest was sentenced for child pornography would you have the same "he served his sentence" attitude?

The biggest problem for me with it all is the grey areas. As mentioned some return and some are not allowed, there seems to be no real structure and its "however i feel" rules.

That been said Evans still says he is innocent and part of me believes this so hopefully something positive will happen"
Thanks, its nice to hear some people can be rational on this serious subject n I forgot all about Mike Tyson....He's another one but I can think of a few more yet...Can you think of anymore too???

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

If most people thought it was ok for a convicted rapist to be employed as a footballer again, I don't think there would have been such an uproar against the idea. The fact that 60,000 people signed a petition against it and some sponsors threatened to pull out if he was employed by Oldham suggests that public opinion doesn't think it's ok for a rapist to rejoin his old profession.

My opinion? Send the rapist to Antartica.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"As for the guilty verdict. I wonder what peoples thought are on the fact the the only 2 witnesses both said it was consensual? But a self admitted "plastered women" got the jury verdict!

the video evidence is pretty damning.

But is it? A cctv camera in the foyer of a hotel which shows them walking into the hotel before evans. I dont remember seeing her being dragged by the hair?

But again im not diagreeing, just wondering about the other side of the story.

She didn't enter the hotel with Evans. He blagged his way in later.

Again. I said they entered the hotel BEFORE Evans. "

So why the comment about not being dragged in. She entered the hotel under her own free will with another person then Evans turned up later and raped her.

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By *olly RogererMan
over a year ago

Braintree

"As for the guilty verdict. I wonder what peoples thought are on the fact the the only 2 witnesses both said it was consensual? But a self admitted "plastered women" got the jury verdict!

I didn't realise you could consent to sex on behalf of another person. When was that made law ?

Just because other people said in was consensual doesn't make it so. The most important person didn't give consent. That's all that counts. "

But that is exactly my point.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

He is a rapist and should not be allowed to take up a job in such a position he is a vile animal that has violated a woman and he should pay for that for a hell of a lot longer than he has the football club should never consider taking him back ever

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"As for the guilty verdict. I wonder what peoples thought are on the fact the the only 2 witnesses both said it was consensual? But a self admitted "plastered women" got the jury verdict!

I didn't realise you could consent to sex on behalf of another person. When was that made law ?

Also it wouldn't have mattered if she had slept with twenty men before Evans turned up. She didn't consent to sex with him. Therefore it is rape.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

He should not be allowed to act as a role model to young boys full stop

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Agreed but based on recent crimes committed by those settled here from abroad it seems that the authorities do not have the ability/will to control it.

I also agree the it is dispicable that social media is responsible for the victim having to move five times.

Just adds fuel to the fire that social media is used by the ill-intentioned to manipulate the stupid.

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

I wonder what the oh-so-masculine footballing men would think if they got anally raped? And then the rapist was offered a job at their local football club? Perhaps not so vehemently defensive....

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By *olly RogererMan
over a year ago

Braintree

So why the comment about not being dragged in. She entered the hotel under her own free will with another person then Evans turned up later and raped her. "

I will tell you why. As I have not even given my own opinion on the Evans case...merely points of view from both sides I shall now explain why I ask.

A friend of mine recently got sentenced for rape at a birthday party and is serving 3.5 years. At this party around 20 people watched them kiss and cuddle all night then enter the bedroom late on. She spent the whole night in the bedroom and then 2 days later reported him for rape. Now I know my friend and a rapist would be the last thing I would say of him but thats irrelivant.

His solicitor advised him to plead guilty for a lesser sentence.

Now my thought are: there are 2 types of "rape"

Non consensual sex

And rape..dragged down an alley or pinned down etc.

Evans I believe is a rapist. I personally believe that his mates pulled and he wanted a piece, she was pissed as a fart and he forced himself upon her. Thats what I believe. But I was not there any more than you were so all I have to go on is media reports and conjecture...the same as you

Hence why I asked what others thought about the other side of the story

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

He can't go abroad because that would be a violation of his licence terms

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By *coutin4girlz OP Man
over a year ago

Moo-Moo land :-)

"As for the guilty verdict. I wonder what peoples thought are on the fact the the only 2 witnesses both said it was consensual? But a self admitted "plastered women" got the jury verdict!"
A lot of people based their views on hearsay n the lies printed in the Scum (sun) oh by the way they covered their arse's this time (out of many years experience of lies) by slipping in 'it is believed' in small print but that's a fact lost by many people...I suggest people actually read about the case because it's dodgy as hell, hence the very unusual fast tracking of his review/appeal...

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"As for the guilty verdict. I wonder what peoples thought are on the fact the the only 2 witnesses both said it was consensual? But a self admitted "plastered women" got the jury verdict! A lot of people based their views on hearsay n the lies printed in the Scum (sun) oh by the way they covered their arse's this time (out of many years experience of lies) by slipping in 'it is believed' in small print but that's a fact lost by many people...I suggest people actually read about the case because it's dodgy as hell, hence the very unusual fast tracking of his review/appeal..."

actually.... I would suggest you read the case notes.... not the ched evans supporters website...

google "R vs Chedwyn Evan"... all the actually court case notes are there....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

So why the comment about not being dragged in. She entered the hotel under her own free will with another person then Evans turned up later and raped her.

I will tell you why. As I have not even given my own opinion on the Evans case...merely points of view from both sides I shall now explain why I ask.

His solicitor advised him to plead guilty for a lesser sentence.

Now my thought are: there are 2 types of "rape"

Non consensual sex

And rape..dragged down an alley or pinned down etc.

Hence why I asked what others thought about the other side of the story"

Rape is rape. Just because the girl wasn't beaten doesn't make it any less of a crime.

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By *oobsandballsMan
over a year ago

st andrews

He hasn't served all of his sentence, and he has shown no remorse.

He's still causing agony to his victim. So why should he return to a high paid and high profile job that young kids look up to?

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By *coutin4girlz OP Man
over a year ago

Moo-Moo land :-)

He is not allowed to work abroad as he is on probation and his license does not allow for this. And what country would want a convicted rapist moving there ? There would be an outcry if we allowed a rapist into this country to work and possibly reoffend. "
Your talking rubbish I'm sorry. We don't know who's entering our Country or are you suggesting that the foreign murderers/rapists in the news recently with criminal records in their own countries come over yuh with the authorities consent?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I really do not know enough. And who would unless they were a party to the trial? But please have a little less faith in our jury system. You do know it is a bit less than perfect? At the same time, if I were a director of a football club, would I even consider employing him? Of course I would not.

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By *osmicsMan
over a year ago

West Yorkshire

In three years time, he will have completed his sentence. A punishment deemed appropriate for the crime in the eyes of the law.

The rape victim I guess will also be fully recovered and back to her regular life just as it was before the rape.

....

Sadly, this will not be the case. The consequences of the crime will no doubt be there and ever present for life for both parties. People seem to get a little single minded with regard to the sentence.

The CONSEQUENCES, be it right or wrong, good or bad. Will hound both parties until the day they die. What has the law got to do with that?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

He is not allowed to work abroad as he is on probation and his license does not allow for this. And what country would want a convicted rapist moving there ? There would be an outcry if we allowed a rapist into this country to work and possibly reoffend. Your talking rubbish I'm sorry. We don't know who's entering our Country or are you suggesting that the foreign murderers/rapists in the news recently with criminal records in their own countries come over yuh with the authorities consent? "

How very dare you. Talking rubbish indeed. There was outcry when it was discovered a rapist had been let into england to reoffend. So why would another country take this chance in Evans ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think its despicable that these people who are against him and rape have threatened the staff and fams at oldham with violence and death threats also have threatened to rape a member of staffs family member ironic isnt it

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

1) He is a convicted rapist and is on the SO register, as well as being out on licence. This is his current position, irrespective of the outcome of any forthcoming review.

2) The issue of his apology / remorse has fuck all to do with anything other than easing his conscience or trying to regain a scrap of humanity in the public eye. Se Point 1.

3) His review hasn't happened and so no one can predict the outcome - its senseless trying to justify his employment based on this. See Point 1.

4) Whatever the inevitable outcome of all of this, the life of a 19 year old girl has been wrecked.

All of this senseless media bollocks will go away if the F.A make a clear policy regarding the employment of convicted sex offenders. No one is 'Facebook Fusillier-ing' the hell out of the F.A to make a definitive ruling, are they?

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

So why the comment about not being dragged in. She entered the hotel under her own free will with another person then Evans turned up later and raped her.

I will tell you why. As I have not even given my own opinion on the Evans case...merely points of view from both sides I shall now explain why I ask.

His solicitor advised him to plead guilty for a lesser sentence.

Now my thought are: there are 2 types of "rape"

Non consensual sex

And rape..dragged down an alley or pinned down etc.

Hence why I asked what others thought about the other side of the story

Rape is rape. Just because the girl wasn't beaten doesn't make it any less of a crime. "

Not going to win many friends here but actually I think it does make a difference and I think the law should reflect that.

Not so many years ago getting a conviction for the non violent type of rape would have been almost impossible but now it's not uncommon.

Whilst rape is rape and should be punished I do think there is room for a crime of rape and a crime of aggravated rape when violence is used.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 08/01/15 20:08:21]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I have never watched eastenders so I have no idea who you are talking about, I don't watch football either...

I was mearly pointing out that he is in the position of public role model not judging everyone who has a criminal past, after all this thread is about a specific person

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

......."Whilst rape is rape and should be punished I do think there is room for a crime of rape and a crime of aggravated rape when violence is used"......

Rape is violent.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"As for the guilty verdict. I wonder what peoples thought are on the fact the the only 2 witnesses both said it was consensual? But a self admitted "plastered women" got the jury verdict! A lot of people based their views on hearsay n the lies printed in the Scum (sun) oh by the way they covered their arse's this time (out of many years experience of lies) by slipping in 'it is believed' in small print but that's a fact lost by many people...I suggest people actually read about the case because it's dodgy as hell, hence the very unusual fast tracking of his review/appeal...

actually.... I would suggest you read the case notes.... not the ched evans supporters website...

google "R vs Chedwyn Evan"... all the actually court case notes are there...."

It's amazing how many of his apologists seem reluctant to refer to that document.

Or discuss that his appeal has already been declined once.

One thing I'd love to know is why so many of his apologists have no issue with his behavious and actions that night. Even if his conviction is quashed his actions that night were predatory and unjustifiable

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By *coutin4girlz OP Man
over a year ago

Moo-Moo land :-)

the video evidence is pretty damning.

But is it? A cctv camera in the foyer of a hotel which shows them walking into the hotel before evans. I dont remember seeing her being dragged by the hair?

But again im not diagreeing, just wondering about the other side of the story.

cool... lets talk about the site proporting to show all this evidence...

a) it is being bankrolled by the father of the girlfriend of ched evans

b) both the police and the hotel have said they never gave permission for the site to show it... further more the hotel are looking into whether they have take action against the site......

c) the site is currently being investigated by the office of the attorney general on the grounds of being in "contempt of court" in the case"
What about the deleted tweets which the victim denied sending n the American Fireman who's got no axe to grind with anyone but was concerned about 'Civil Liberties' who found those tweets on a french website? Surely you can see there's more to this case than meets the eye n even just reading the comments on here you can see that a lot of people are confused in their views of this I'll say once again 'dodgy' case...I get a lot of abuse for doing this but I'm concerned about civil liberties too see n yes I do have sympathy for the victim of course I do whoever that maybe...

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

"......."Whilst rape is rape and should be punished I do think there is room for a crime of rape and a crime of aggravated rape when violence is used"......

Rape is violent. "

So if a young lad on his 16th birthday has sex with his girl friend who is not 16 until the day after that is violent? In law it's still rape

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By *olly RogererMan
over a year ago

Braintree

Rape is rape. Just because the girl wasn't beaten doesn't make it any less of a crime.

So no women has ever cried rape? Or male for that matter? The law has not changed but society has!

You think (if I am right in my analogy) that a man jumping a women, holding a knife to her throat and forcing himself upon her is Exactly the same as 2 d*unken people going to bed and shagging. And then the women waking up in the morning saying "i didnt agree to that"

Seriously??

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

"......."Whilst rape is rape and should be punished I do think there is room for a crime of rape and a crime of aggravated rape when violence is used"......

Rape is violent.

So if a young lad on his 16th birthday has sex with his girl friend who is not 16

until the day after that is violent? In law it's still rape"

That would be statutory rape. Different. Interesting that the word 'violent' is similar to 'violate'.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What I hate most about this and the angle that Oldham has taken is that Evans' is portrayed as the victim. The threats should be reported to the police. The reality is that Oldham have bowed to public and sponser pressure (of which the alleged threats form part) having realised that signing Evans will bring a massive backlash.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"......."Whilst rape is rape and should be punished I do think there is room for a crime of rape and a crime of aggravated rape when violence is used"......

Rape is violent.

So if a young lad on his 16th birthday has sex with his girl friend who is not 16 until the day after that is violent? In law it's still rape"

Are you sure about that?

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

"......."Whilst rape is rape and should be punished I do think there is room for a crime of rape and a crime of aggravated rape when violence is used"......

Rape is violent.

So if a young lad on his 16th birthday has sex with his girl friend who is not 16

until the day after that is violent? In law it's still rape

That would be statutory rape. Different. Interesting that the word 'violent' is similar to 'violate'. "

so statutory rape is not rape then. I thought rape was rape.

And violate and violent may be similar but they are not the same.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Playing devils advocate here, but if his review goes through and he's eventually exonerated - will the people who say 'he was found guilty so he must be' accept that he's innocent?

I don't know if they would.

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

I think we all agree rape is wrong.

Some people think the guy has served his prison sentence and should be allowed to get on with his old life as if nothing has happened.

And some people don't.

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By *olly RogererMan
over a year ago

Braintree

"What I hate most about this and the angle that Oldham has taken is that Evans' is portrayed as the victim. The threats should be reported to the police. The reality is that Oldham have bowed to public and sponser pressure (of which the alleged threats form part) having realised that signing Evans will bring a massive backlash. "

Im not so sure that is the case. I think Oldham have taken the stance of "he has served his sentence and should (not deserves) a second chance. Oldham have a habbit of doing this...Lee Hughes for one!

Evans obviously is making himself out to be the victim...as he believes he is innocent.. either that or hes a fecking good actor

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

"......."Whilst rape is rape and should be punished I do think there is room for a crime of rape and a crime of aggravated rape when violence is used"......

Rape is violent.

So if a young lad on his 16th birthday has sex with his girl friend who is not 16 until the day after that is violent? In law it's still rape

Are you sure about that?"

It's definitely rape but it would probably never be presecuted

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By *ancs MinxWoman
over a year ago

Burnley

"What about the fact that the hasn't served his sentence and is only just over half way through it. "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Rape is rape. Just because the girl wasn't beaten doesn't make it any less of a crime.

So no women has ever cried rape? Or male for that matter? The law has not changed but society has!

Seriously??"

Of course it's not the same.

Are you saying having sex with people to d*unk to consent is acceptable?

There is no logic to defending a crime because it could have been worse. I can't think of any other crime where this argument is voiced

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

He may not have got a life sentence but his victim did. Something she will have with her for the rest of her life. The lack of thought/reference/sympathy or compassion towards the victim in your OP is quite shocking!

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

"Playing devils advocate here, but if his review goes through and he's eventually exonerated - will the people who say 'he was found guilty so he must be' accept that he's innocent?

I don't know if they would."

Probably not. They'll just think he got away with it. Once people have formed an idea about something they seldom change it, regardless of any facts that might come along.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Rape is rape. Just because the girl wasn't beaten doesn't make it any less of a crime.

So no women has ever cried rape? Or male for that matter? The law has not changed but society has!

Seriously??"

Crying rape is a different matter altogether. And this case isn't about two d*unken people going to bed. She was d*unk and in bed when Evans left his house and blagged his way into the room and raped her.

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

It is ironic that the people shouting for the man not to be employed because he was convicted of rape are threatening rape to innocent people who work for the club

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By *olly RogererMan
over a year ago

Braintree

"Playing devils advocate here, but if his review goes through and he's eventually exonerated - will the people who say 'he was found guilty so he must be' accept that he's innocent?

I don't know if they would."

My sentiments exactly.. what I find odd is that when all this first came out and before the trial I read so many tweets, facebook status updates etc from sheff utd fans and people around the world using phrases like "it wasnt rape..it was laddish behaviour"

To my dismay it was alot of women posting these comments. These are now the same people saying he shouldnt be allowed to play football.

How quick the worm turns

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Playing devils advocate here, but if his review goes through and he's eventually exonerated - will the people who say 'he was found guilty so he must be' accept that he's innocent?

I don't know if they would."

I think he is predatory scum. An acquital would not alter that opinion.

Decent people do not lie to hotel staff to invite themselves in to a hotel room to fuck the girl their mate has pulled without her consent or invitation while another mate tries to film from outside.

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

"......."Whilst rape is rape and should be punished I do think there is room for a crime of rape and a crime of aggravated rape when violence is used"......

Rape is violent.

So if a young lad on his 16th birthday has sex with his girl friend who is not 16

until the day after that is violent? In law

it's still rape

That would be statutory rape. Different.

Interesting that the word 'violent' is

similar to 'violate'.

so statutory rape is not rape then. I thought rape was rape.

And violate and violent may be similar

but they are not the same. "

I didn't say they were the same words. I very clearly said they were similar. I don't want to argue with you about this. Statutory rape can be consenual but in the eyes of the law, it can't be consensual, because the under age person (male or female) is seen not to be able to consent due to their age. Statutory rape does not have to be violent but rape is violent even if no violence has taken place.

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

Rape is rape. Just because the girl wasn't beaten doesn't make it any less of a crime.

So no women has ever cried rape? Or male for that matter? The law has not changed but society has!

Seriously??

Of course it's not the same.

Are you saying having sex with people to d*unk to consent is acceptable?

I don't think he's saying that. I think he's saying that it's not the same as hitting someone on the head and dragging them into a bush to have sex with them.

It's still wrong but just not the same and maybe should not be the same crime

There is no logic to defending a crime because it could have been worse. I can't think of any other crime where this argument is voiced"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Playing devils advocate here, but if his review goes through and he's eventually exonerated - will the people who say 'he was found guilty so he must be' accept that he's innocent?

I don't know if they would.

I think he is predatory scum. An acquital would not alter that opinion.

Decent people do not lie to hotel staff to invite themselves in to a hotel room to fuck the girl their mate has pulled without her consent or invitation while another mate tries to film from outside.

But if he was eventually found innocent, the above will not have happened as far as the judge is concerned.

I guess that's my point, I don't trust the law so blindly that I'm willing to form an opinion set in concrete. I don't think most people do, unless of course the law matches their beliefs.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Rape is rape. Just because the girl wasn't beaten doesn't make it any less of a crime.

So no women has ever cried rape? Or male for that matter? The law has not changed but society has!

Seriously??"

It's not a case of "waking up in the morning saying "i didnt agree to that" ". It's a case of being that out of your head it would be impossible to give consent at the time!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It is ironic that the people shouting for the man not to be employed because he was convicted of rape are threatening rape to innocent people who work for the club

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

"It is ironic that the people shouting for the man not to be employed because he was convicted of rape are threatening rape to innocent people who work for the club

Yeah, I think the police are investigating this as well as I think the police are angry because no one has made a formal complaint. So sayeth the BBC news website.

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By *uttyjonnMan
over a year ago

SEA

Should a paedophile or a non TV license fee payer work in the public domain

I would imagine most people would say no and yes - peoples view on rapists will lie somewhere in between and individuals will argue where the line is drawn.

For me it's a 'no' but this is my opinion and it is up to others to decide for themselves

regarding the appeal - he is currently guilty

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By *olly RogererMan
over a year ago

Braintree

It's not a case of "waking up in the morning saying "i didnt agree to that" ". It's a case of being that out of your head it would be impossible to give consent at the time! "

And do you think that is the same crime as a pre meditated attack on a women walking home at night? Being held at knifepoint and forced upon? I certainly dont (but dont condone either BTW)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Playing devils advocate here, but if his review goes through and he's eventually exonerated - will the people who say 'he was found guilty so he must be' accept that he's innocent?

I don't know if they would."

If he is exonerated do you still think his behaviour was acceptable that night. By his own admission he had sex with a young girl who was so d*unk she had pissed the bed and he was that concerned about her state that he asked the front desk to keep an eye on her. After he had had sex with her though.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's not a case of "waking up in the morning saying "i didnt agree to that" ". It's a case of being that out of your head it would be impossible to give consent at the time!

And do you think that is the same crime as a pre meditated attack on a women walking home at night? Being held at knifepoint and forced upon? I certainly dont (but dont condone either BTW)"

It's the same crime! Sentencing is then based on aggravating and mitigating circumstances!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Rape is rape. Just because the girl wasn't beaten doesn't make it any less of a crime.

So no women has ever cried rape? Or male for that matter? The law has not changed but society has!

Seriously??

It's not a case of "waking up in the morning saying "i didnt agree to that" ". It's a case of being that out of your head it would be impossible to give consent at the time! "
in no way am i defending him but have you seen the cctv she wasnt out off her head she can be clearly seen walking in with the other guy then coming back out to pick a pizza up that was being delivered i think this cctv has clouded a lot of peoples judgement as to weather she was d*unk or saw the oppertunity to make money out of a footballer

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Playing devils advocate here, but if his review goes through and he's eventually exonerated - will the people who say 'he was found guilty so he must be' accept that he's innocent?

I don't know if they would.

I think he is predatory scum. An acquital would not alter that opinion.

Decent people do not lie to hotel staff to invite themselves in to a hotel room to fuck the girl their mate has pulled without her consent or invitation while another mate tries to film from outside.

But if he was eventually found innocent, the above will not have happened as far as the judge is concerned.

I guess that's my point, I don't trust the law so blindly that I'm willing to form an opinion set in concrete. I don't think most people do, unless of course the law matches their beliefs."

But it did happen. Evans himself said so.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Playing devils advocate here, but if his review goes through and he's eventually exonerated - will the people who say 'he was found guilty so he must be' accept that he's innocent?

I don't know if they would.

I think he is predatory scum. An acquital would not alter that opinion.

Decent people do not lie to hotel staff to invite themselves in to a hotel room to fuck the girl their mate has pulled without her consent or invitation while another mate tries to film from outside.

But if he was eventually found innocent, the above will not have happened as far as the judge is concerned.

I guess that's my point, I don't trust the law so blindly that I'm willing to form an opinion set in concrete. I don't think most people do, unless of course the law matches their beliefs."

What do you mean the above wouldn't have happened? Which bit, other than her consent wasn't in Evans' own statement? The bit about lying was. The bit about filming was. The bit about being uninvited was. An acquital won't make his behaviour any less odious or unacceptable

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don't think he's saying that. I think he's saying that it's not the same as hitting someone on the head and dragging them into a bush to have sex with them. "

If you were beaten up tonight what would your reaction be to anyone that down played you being the victim of crime by saying it could have been worse you could have been stabbed or shot?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I haven't read the case notes (so I didn't know about the piss thing, although it seems neither did he) but I'm not forming an opinion, merely playing devils advocate.

My point is that some will use the 'the law says this, so it must be this' line, yet they don't always trust the law (or accept the sentencing/outcome) for other things. So I personally tend not to use it as a matter of fact.

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By *coutin4girlz OP Man
over a year ago

Moo-Moo land :-)

I have never watched eastenders so I have no idea who you are talking about, I don't watch football either...

I was mearly pointing out that he is in the position of public role model not judging everyone who has a criminal past, after all this thread is about a specific person "
No you got it wrong there this thread is not about one individual its about the rule of law n what happens after someones been convicted of a crime..I should know I posted the thread lol my point is other people who have committed in my opinion much worse crimes yet they are still allowed to get on with their very well paid,very public careers n someone else being singled out n I'm wondering why this is the case???

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By *olly RogererMan
over a year ago

Braintree

If he is found innocent on appeal the above would still have happened. But more realistically other evidence may have come to light or there may be a different jury opinion! This is what is wrong with the justice system IMO but I cant fathom a fairer way so it is what it is.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Rape is rape. Just because the girl wasn't beaten doesn't make it any less of a crime.

So no women has ever cried rape? Or male for that matter? The law has not changed but society has!

Seriously??

It's not a case of "waking up in the morning saying "i didnt agree to that" ". It's a case of being that out of your head it would be impossible to give consent at the time! in no way am i defending him but have you seen the cctv she wasnt out off her head she can be clearly seen walking in with the other guy then coming back out to pick a pizza up that was being delivered i think this cctv has clouded a lot of peoples judgement as to weather she was d*unk or saw the oppertunity to make money out of a footballer "

This is a woman so sober that Evans' co-accused told the hotel staff to check on her and after they left she pissed herself in bed. Does that sound sober to you?

Have you ever wondered how Evans' website got that footage? Or why in the interest of balance they don't show the footage of Evans lying to the hotel receptionist to get in to the building?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Facebook Fusiliers.

Twitter Tank Regiment.

Reddit Rifles.

Bebo Bombardiers.

Google Grenadiers.

There are loads of others you could use.

Funny how you use a social media platform to question the motivation and rationale of social media users.

The Ironic Cross for you Sir...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The bit about the rape (he thinks she consented) so if an exoneration did happen, they (the law) would have decided she had.

Like I said, I'm not forming an opinion (he may or may not have done it) I'm just not going to 100% back the law (as I know plenty of us slag it off when it doesnt match our expectations).

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If he is found innocent on appeal the above would still have happened. But more realistically other evidence may have come to light or there may be a different jury opinion! This is what is wrong with the justice system IMO but I cant fathom a fairer way so it is what it is."

What's wrong with the justice system? I fail to see your point. He was tried and found guilty by a jury made up of his peers. He appealed and it was rrefused. What's wrong with that?

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"It is ironic that the people shouting for the man not to be employed because he was convicted of rape are threatening rape to innocent people who work for the club

.... just as it is to accuse people of "mob rule" when his mob supporters have caused the poor girl to move and change her name FIVE time because they out her on facebook and twitter even thought she has witness protections.....

9 "supporters" of his have already been found guilty of doing this... there are further prosecutions coming!!!

not saying two wrongs make a right...just showing it has happened on both sides... on one side for the past 3 years!!!!

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By *olly RogererMan
over a year ago

Braintree

I don't think he's saying that. I think he's saying that it's not the same as hitting someone on the head and dragging them into a bush to have sex with them.

If you were beaten up tonight what would your reaction be to anyone that down played you being the victim of crime by saying it could have been worse you could have been stabbed or shot?"

Not so sure why your off on a tangent. But the point being made is that the 2 "rapes" are not the same. They should carry different sentences and therefore the reprocussions on release should differ.

As stabbing, shooting or simply beating someone up does

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

He hasn't got an appeal.

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By *olly RogererMan
over a year ago

Braintree

What's wrong with the justice system? I fail to see your point. He was tried and found guilty by a jury made up of his peers. He appealed and it was rrefused. What's wrong with that?"

Wow!!! have you never heard of people being wrongly found guilty?

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By *coutin4girlz OP Man
over a year ago

Moo-Moo land :-)

"Facebook Fusiliers.

Twitter Tank Regiment.

Reddit Rifles.

Bebo Bombardiers.

Google Grenadiers.

There are loads of others you could use.

Funny how you use a social media platform to question the motivation and rationale of social media users.

The Ironic Cross for you Sir...

"
The 150,000 signatures Come from facebook so I'm hardly gonna say twitter,bebo etc see....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don't think he's saying that. I think he's saying that it's not the same as hitting someone on the head and dragging them into a bush to have sex with them.

If you were beaten up tonight what would your reaction be to anyone that down played you being the victim of crime by saying it could have been worse you could have been stabbed or shot?

Not so sure why your off on a tangent. But the point being made is that the 2 "rapes" are not the same. They should carry different sentences and therefore the reprocussions on release should differ.

As stabbing, shooting or simply beating someone up does

The point I am making is that people repeatedly on this and countless other threads seem to make out that she should be thankful that the rape wasn;t accompanied by a violent assault. I was trying (perhaps clumsily) to point out that with no other crime would that logic come to the fore.

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

"......."Whilst rape is rape and should be punished I do think there is room for a crime of rape and a crime of aggravated rape when violence is used"......

Rape is violent.

So if a young lad on his 16th birthday has sex with his girl friend who is not 16

until the day after that is violent? In law

it's still rape

That would be statutory rape. Different.

Interesting that the word 'violent' is

similar to 'violate'.

so statutory rape is not rape then. I thought rape was rape.

And violate and violent may be similar

but they are not the same.

I don't want to argue with you either because I've normally found myself in agreement with your posts on other threads and also I feel I'm getting into a position were it may look like I'm defending actions that I believe to be wrong. But I am a little confused by the your distinction between statutory rape (where it's impossible for consent to be given and rape). In law rape is a statutory offence and statutory rape (which is used as a term for sex with a person under the age of consent) is only called statutory rape because it is rape under the statutes of law. i.e. the person was not able to give their consent.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

He lost his appeal

He hasn't got an appeal. "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"What about the fact that the hasn't served his sentence and is only just over half way through it. "

Very few people actually serve the full sentence handed to them as our prisons are overcrowded and this is how the problem is resolved.

What he was convicted of is not something that should be brushed off lightly (though how will some of his accusers respond if he is cleared on appeal). But it is not his fault his prison term was ended early. As others have said he has served the time he was made to.

And some of the people making some of the threats and claims they are making on line should be prosecuted too.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Rape is rape. Just because the girl wasn't beaten doesn't make it any less of a crime.

So no women has ever cried rape? Or male for that matter? The law has not changed but society has!

Seriously??

This is a woman so sober that Evans' co-accused told the hotel staff to check on her and after they left she pissed herself in bed. Does that sound sober to you?

Have you ever wondered how Evans' website got that footage? Or why in the interest of balance they don't show the footage of Evans lying to the hotel receptionist to get in to the building?"
i was pointing out what it shows on the cctv what about her tweets anout mstching pink minis im not defending him im agsinst rape theres enough willing people about without having to tape someone if my daughter got raped it wouldnt get to court id kill the fooker

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I do think they should of waited until the outcome of his appeal before offering him a position at a football club"

Finally someone speaks sense instead of jumping on the "ban him from football for life" bandwagon.

How people can comment and threaten the lives of board/sponsor members is bloody ludicrous.

Evans (guilty or not, let's face it....no-one knows what truly happened as they weren't there and I suspect a lot of public opinion is fueled by the fact he is footballer and we've all had gripes on footballers for one reason or another for years) has or will serve his time as judged by OUR Criminal courts......I don't care who you are or where you're from.....EVERYONE deserves a second chance.....even his peers think so (messers Redknapp, Cottee & Salako to name a few). For those out there that have asked what if it affected you in a more personal way.....would still say/act the same?? Let me flip the question around.....what if Ched Evans was YOUR son (someone who has lived, breathed, bled football all his life)......what would you do?

I, for one, agree with poster whom I've quoted insofar as that Oldham Athletics timing could of been better.....but I fully support their actions and congratulate them on what they tried to do, which was to give a guy a 2nd chance that's all.

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By *olly RogererMan
over a year ago

Braintree

If she was "too d*unk" to say yes?

Is she "too d*unk" to say no?

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By *reelove1969Couple
over a year ago

bristol

"I think its despicable that these people who are against him and rape have threatened the staff and fams at oldham with violence and death threats also have threatened to rape a member of staffs family member ironic isnt it"

indeed !

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"What about the fact that the hasn't served his sentence and is only just over half way through it.

Very few people actually serve the full sentence handed to them as our prisons are overcrowded and this is how the problem is resolved.

And some of the people making some of the threats and claims they are making on line should be prosecuted too. "

He may have been released but that doesn't mean his sentence is over.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"It is ironic that the people shouting for the man not to be employed because he was convicted of rape are threatening rape to innocent people who work for the club

not sure ironic is the word i would use, i think its disgusting behaviour and i hope that anyone caught is held to account..

equally the way the victim has been vilified is disgusting..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If she was "too d*unk" to say yes?

Is she "too d*unk" to say no?"

Surely if she is too d*unk to say yes, then the answer can only be no

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

I don't think he's saying that. I think he's saying that it's not the same as hitting someone on the head and dragging them into a bush to have sex with them.

If you were beaten up tonight what would your reaction be to anyone that down played you being the victim of crime by saying it could have been worse you could have been stabbed or shot?"

My reaction would be that the person who beet me up should be tried in court and when found guilty punished for beating me up. If, on the other hand, the person had shot or stabbed me then they should be tried for that crime. Beating me up would be Actual or Grievous bodily harm. Stabbing or shooting me would be Assault with a deadly weapon or possibly attempted murder. I would not expect a person who beat me up to be charged with the same crime as someone who tried to shoot or vice versa. They are not the same crime.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

How was it dodgy. A unanimous decision by a jury is hardly dodgy.

Winds me up when people call jury decisions "dodgy". It's people just like them that make up juries, and I doubt they call their decisions "dodgy". Doesn't make sense. "

If you think trial by jury is safe then think again. It is perceived to be fair but in reality it is seriously flawed but its difficult to find a better alternative, i personally think a jury should be made up of people with a degree of legal understanding as things sometimes become difficult for certain people to understand.

When i was on jury service an outspoken guy wanted to become the foreman as no one else wanted the job it was his, all through deliberation he wanted to send the individual to jail although the rest of us thought the person was innocent, he went on ranting wed let him down as he wanted to know what it was loke to send someone down, is that fair trial?

A colleague also was on a jury on a case where a guy was accused of raping a woman, the guy was good looking and dressed really smart, 2 women on the jury were overheard to comment he couldnt be guilty as he was too good looking, he got off and his previous convictions were made known and this was the second offence.

And we think trial by jury is safe?

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"If she was "too d*unk" to say yes?

Is she "too d*unk" to say no?"

would you have sex with a girl who was "too d*unk" to say yes?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Whilst i dont entirely disagree with the train of thought, i do believe that some professions simply are not viable to return to after certain crimes.

Ofcourse his crime was DD but the powers that be i.e F.A seem to think thats a lesser crime. Maybe it is? Lee hughes, joey barton to name a few more.

Mike tyson was sentenced for rape and returned to the public eye so why is football any different?

However if a priest was sentenced for child pornography would you have the same "he served his sentence" attitude?

The biggest problem for me with it all is the grey areas. As mentioned some return and some are not allowed, there seems to be no real structure and its "however i feel" rules.

That been said Evans still says he is innocent and part of me believes this so hopefully something positive will happen Thanks, its nice to hear some people can be rational on this serious subject n I forgot all about Mike Tyson....He's another one but I can think of a few more yet...Can you think of anymore too???

Harry Redknapp named a couple in his interview with sky earlier today.....what about the goalie who killed that boy whilst under the influence.....don't remember that causing a shitstorm half as big as the Evans case

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By *olly RogererMan
over a year ago

Braintree

"If she was "too d*unk" to say yes?

Is she "too d*unk" to say no?

would you have sex with a girl who was "too d*unk" to say yes?"

My ex missus was very often too d*unk to say yes

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"He hasn't served all of his sentence, and he has shown no remorse.

He's still causing agony to his victim. So why should he return to a high paid and high profile job that young kids look up to? "

And he won't show remorse as he believes he is innocent

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

That there were 2 accused makes the case even more confusing - if she says she didn't consent to either, how can the jury decide that she consented to one but not the other?

I know they're two separate crimes in actuality but they are linked.

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

probably because

a) he showed remorse during the trial, the sentencing and when he came out

b) he did things in the local community advocating against d*unk driving

c) he spoke to the victims family before going back into football....

in fact... before anyone brings up lee hughes.. he did exactly the same things before oldham took him on...

ched has done none of those

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

I don't think he's saying that. I think he's saying that it's not the same as hitting someone on the head and dragging them into a bush to have sex with them.

If you were beaten up tonight what would your reaction be to anyone that down played you being the victim of crime by saying it could have been worse you could have been stabbed or shot?

Not so sure why your off on a tangent. But the point being made is that the 2 "rapes" are not the same. They should carry different sentences and therefore the reprocussions on release should differ.

As stabbing, shooting or simply beating someone up does

I'm definitely not saying that she should be thankful that the rape wasn't accompanied by a violent assault. As the law stands he is a convicted rapist and she was raped. She should not be thankful for that at all.

But I am saying that this form of rape is not the same as the other. Rape, where it's a case of consent not being given is not the same as rape where violence or the threat of violence is involved. The two things look and feel different to me.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

i think that this case will possibly focus those in the higher echelons of the game and the legislature to look again at whether a conviction for something as serious and repulsive as rape should prohibit a professional sports person from 'carrying on' in that profession..

would those who think he should be allowed to carry on 'cos he has done his time feel the same if the conviction was for molesting a child..?

where are the lines that we as society set as too far..?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"That there were 2 accused makes the case even more confusing - if she says she didn't consent to either, how can the jury decide that she consented to one but not the other?

I know they're two separate crimes in actuality but they are linked."

Can you not see the significant difference in the circumstances. His co-accused didn't lie to get in to the room. Makes 'beyond reasonable doubt' far more difficult to prove.

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By *SweetVioletxWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool

FFS not this again. Stop banging on about it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"FFS not this again. Stop banging on about it. "

People appear to enjoy discussing this and its a free open forum.

The obvious thing to do if you dont like it is to ignore and read the 100's of other repeat threads out there which interest you, so easy really

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

Last time this was discussed it was put to me, very reasonably, that classifying the degree of a rape isn't appropriate. This changed my previous opinion.

No means no and nobody should take advantage of anyone unable to consent. Rape is rape and to class any rape as more acceptable than another (which one is doing by considering one "worse" than another) is entirely unreasonable.

"There, there. He may have violated you in the worst way and left you unable to trust or form relationships for the rest of your life but at least he didn't hit you"

Really?

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By *olly RogererMan
over a year ago

Braintree

"FFS not this again. Stop banging on about it.

People appear to enjoy discussing this and its a free open forum.

The obvious thing to do if you dont like it is to ignore and read the 100's of other repeat threads out there which interest you, so easy really

This

Or get ya tits out

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

......."But I am saying that this form of rape is not the same as the other. Rape, where it's a case of consent not being given is not the same as rape where violence or the threat of violence is involved. The two things look and feel different to me....."

I've been cursed with not being able to keep my gob shut. Rape is classified as violent assault, therefore, even if no actual violence took place, it is deemed to have done so because the act of penetration without consent is deemed to be violent.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"That there were 2 accused makes the case even more confusing - if she says she didn't consent to either, how can the jury decide that she consented to one but not the other?

I know they're two separate crimes in actuality but they are linked.

Can you not see the significant difference in the circumstances. His co-accused didn't lie to get in to the room. Makes 'beyond reasonable doubt' far more difficult to prove.

I can see 'a' difference but it's not significant to me (I've lied to get into places before - most of us have, doesn't make me more likely to have committed a crime in that place though). I guess my point is she accuses both and they only believe her in one instance.

Again, I want to stress that I don't know if he is or isn't guilty, I just don't trust the law to decide 100% for me. I think there would be less arguments about it if both had the same verdict (whether guilty or not).

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

"......."But I am saying that this form of rape is not the same as the other. Rape, where it's a case of consent not being given is not the same as rape where violence or the threat of violence is involved. The two things look and feel different to me....."

^ this. Absolutely 100% this.

I don't think any rape victim has ever felt better about being raped because they could have been beaten or it could have been worse.

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By *olly RogererMan
over a year ago

Braintree

Nobody is saying "atleast he did t hit you"

What some are saying us that the 2 types are alot different and should be treated as such.

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

"Nobody is saying "atleast he did t hit you"

What some are saying us that the 2 types are alot different and should be treated as such.

And what I'm saying is no they shouldn't.

You may not have said at least he didn't hit you but that is your attitude to the crime.

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By *SweetVioletxWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool

"FFS not this again. Stop banging on about it.

People appear to enjoy discussing this and its a free open forum.

The obvious thing to do if you dont like it is to ignore and read the 100's of other repeat threads out there which interest you, so easy really

This

Or get ya tits out

Ah yes the classic put down. Suits this type of thread perfectly.

Let's shut the little women up.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

He has served his custodial sentence and should be allowed to return to the job that he has trained to do, by not allowing him to do so we are making a mockery of our rehabilitation system.

Kinky

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"Nobody is saying "atleast he did t hit you"

What some are saying us that the 2 types are alot different and should be treated as such.

any aggravation should only mean that the original sentence is added to, rape is rape..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don't think he's saying that. I think he's saying that it's not the same as hitting someone on the head and dragging them into a bush to have sex with them.

If you were beaten up tonight what would your reaction be to anyone that down played you being the victim of crime by saying it could have been worse you could have been stabbed or shot?

Not so sure why your off on a tangent. But the point being made is that the 2 "rapes" are not the same. They should carry different sentences and therefore the reprocussions on release should differ.

As stabbing, shooting or simply beating someone up does

I agree. It's not the same. Of course one isn't 'better' than the other. But it is NOT the same.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"He has served his custodial sentence and should be allowed to return to the job that he has trained to do, by not allowing him to do so we are making a mockery of our rehabilitation system.

Kinky"

the rehabilitation process is useless and not relevant unless the convicted person admits their guilt..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What I don't understand and please correct me if I am wrong. . aren't there currently other football players who have been convicted of what I perceive to be worse crimes, and served prison sentences that were allowed to return to their previous profession . . of playing football. . I am sorry but manslaughter in my book is far worse . .

So if one professional footballer can return why can't another. . let's be honest they are all paid too much and think they are above the law . .

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

I don't think he's saying that. I think he's saying that it's not the same as hitting someone on the head and dragging them into a bush to have sex with them.

If you were beaten up tonight what would your reaction be to anyone that down played you being the victim of crime by saying it could have been worse you could have been stabbed or shot?

Not so sure why your off on a tangent. But the point being made is that the 2 "rapes" are not the same. They should carry different sentences and therefore the reprocussions on release should differ.

As stabbing, shooting or simply beating someone up does

I agree. It's not the same. Of course one isn't 'better' than the other. But it is NOT the same. "

So different in nature but equally serious?

It's the suggestion there are graduated scales of rape that I disagree with.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Before the thread is closed, as I'm sure there are several mods watching thinking when is enough, enough....

People need to be reminded that there is a lot about this case which we don't know and certain scraps of evidence out there that may well test the theories and opinions of hundreds of us.

Well all is said and done, some people believe he is innocent, some don't. I think we can all agree that this issue has massively divided opinions and will probably continue to do so without coming to any real conclusion as all of us are different.

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By *olly RogererMan
over a year ago

Braintree

"What I don't understand and please correct me if I am wrong. . aren't there currently other football players who have been convicted of what I perceive to be worse crimes, and served prison sentences that were allowed to return to their previous profession . . of playing football. . I am sorry but manslaughter in my book is far worse . .

So if one professional footballer can return why can't another. . let's be honest they are all paid too much and think they are above the law . . "

Apparently because the footballer who commited manslaughter

Showed remorse

Did good things on release

And appologised to the family

He was allowed to return to work

Evans has donr none of these so there fore he cant

Ps theyre not my thought but ive read that somewhere

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Puzzle me this one folks' (been done before i know)

If the Judge determined that the woman was, words to this effect, "too incapacitated through drink TO BE CAPABLE of giving consent, she couldn't and didn't give consent."

Therefore the other footballer also raped her, she couldn't have given consent to him either, she was incapable? Where's the Guilty verdict. sentence and witch hunt against him?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I am not going to condone those people who made threats against the people at oldham football clubs....

Jesus christ, what a sad society we've become when threats of extreme violence resulting in death become acceptable.

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

"Nobody is saying "atleast he did t hit you"

What some are saying us that the 2 types are alot different and should be treated as such.

any aggravation should only mean that the original sentence is added to, rape is rape..

Well that is what I'm saying and is what actually happens in reality. The maximum sentence for rape is in fact life. In this case he got only 5 years. Why. Because there was no aggravation involved. So why not actually create the offence of aggravated rape then the actual law would be in accordance with what actually happens in practice.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

Puzzle me this one folks' (been done before i know)

If the Judge determined that the woman was, words to this effect, "too incapacitated through drink TO BE CAPABLE of giving consent, she couldn't and didn't give consent."

Therefore the other footballer also raped her, she couldn't have given consent to him either, she was incapable? Where's the Guilty verdict. sentence and witch hunt against him?

not looked into any of the papers that others have quoted or websites etc but can only assume its possibly because she was with the other guy previously and went into the hotel/room with him..?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Puzzle me this one folks' (been done before i know)

If the Judge determined that the woman was, words to this effect, "too incapacitated through drink TO BE CAPABLE of giving consent, she couldn't and didn't give consent."

Therefore the other footballer also raped her, she couldn't have given consent to him either, she was incapable? Where's the Guilty verdict. sentence and witch hunt against him?

not looked into any of the papers that others have quoted or websites etc but can only assume its possibly because she was with the other guy previously and went into the hotel/room with him..?"

Presumption only.

Bu most accounts, undisputed, she stopped drinking long before she reached the hotel.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"Nobody is saying "atleast he did t hit you"

What some are saying us that the 2 types are alot different and should be treated as such.

any aggravation should only mean that the original sentence is added to, rape is rape..

thanks for clarifying, maybe they deem the higher level of sentence is adequate rather than take another law onto the statute..

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

Puzzle me this one folks' (been done before i know)

If the Judge determined that the woman was, words to this effect, "too incapacitated through drink TO BE CAPABLE of giving consent, she couldn't and didn't give consent."

Therefore the other footballer also raped her, she couldn't have given consent to him either, she was incapable? Where's the Guilty verdict. sentence and witch hunt against him?

not looked into any of the papers that others have quoted or websites etc but can only assume its possibly because she was with the other guy previously and went into the hotel/room with him..?

Presumption only.

Bu most accounts, undisputed, she stopped drinking long before she reached the hotel.

yes i said that 'assume'..

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By *olly RogererMan
over a year ago

Braintree

Puzzle me this one folks' (been done before i know)

If the Judge determined that the woman was, words to this effect, "too incapacitated through drink TO BE CAPABLE of giving consent, she couldn't and didn't give consent."

Therefore the other footballer also raped her, she couldn't have given consent to him either, she was incapable? Where's the Guilty verdict. sentence and witch hunt against him?

not looked into any of the papers that others have quoted or websites etc but can only assume its possibly because she was with the other guy previously and went into the hotel/room with him..?"

I believe that to be about spot on. If a women accepts drinks all night and gets a taxi to a hotel room with a guy she knows that it is likely that the guy wants sex and theefore is consenting at that point until she says NO

Might be worded wrong but thats the jist of it

Evans however turned up later. Not giving her the opportunity to say yes or no

Infact didnt she admit to saying yes to 1 but not evans.

Somethink like that.my brains pickled

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

So if one professional footballer can return why can't another. . let's be honest they are all paid too much and think they are above the law . .

Apparently because the footballer who commited manslaughter

Showed remorse

Did good things on release

And appologised to the family

He was allowed to return to work

Evans has donr none of these so there fore he cant

Ps theyre not my thought but ive read that somewhere

Probably told to because there was no way he could deny it. .

But there was another footballer convicted of sexual assault - Marlon King. . who went back to playing after serving half of his sentence. . so why weren't people so outraged then for his victims sake. .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

For the record, not that it matters, but didn't the fat beardy one out of Brookside and the RoyalFamily serve time for manslaughter in the past. Certainly served time for something.

Yet as others say, the BBC have him as a role model (Jim Royal, some role model though lol).

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

For the record, not that it matters, but didn't the fat beardy one out of Brookside and the RoyalFamily serve time for manslaughter in the past. Certainly served time for something.

Yet as others say, the BBC have him as a role model (Jim Royal, some role model though lol).

For manslaughter?

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

For the record, not that it matters, but didn't the fat beardy one out of Brookside and the RoyalFamily serve time for manslaughter in the past. Certainly served time for something.

Yet as others say, the BBC have him as a role model (Jim Royal, some role model though lol).

he was sent down for being active in the builders strike in 73 i think?

the papers are still sealed and he is fighting to clear his name..

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By *coutin4girlz OP Man
over a year ago

Moo-Moo land :-)

"He may not have got a life sentence but his victim did. Something she will have with her for the rest of her life. The lack of thought/reference/sympathy or compassion towards the victim in your OP is quite shocking! "
Well she didn't seem that upset when she tweeted to her friends about what shes going to buy them n the holidays shes gonna take them on when she 'hits the big-time'...tweets she n her legal team denied sending by the way lol but some American fireman thats got nothing to do with the case found them them on a French website coz he was concerned about the Civil Liberties aspect of the case or didn't you read that on facebook or the Scum (sun)??? Which makes some believe that this was all a set up in the first place see hence the very unusual fast tracked appeal/review. Evans was seen as something of a superstar in the small communities of North Wales see ...

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By *ike4362ukMan
over a year ago

Cheshunt

I think I will trust the judgement of the jury who saw and listened to ALL of the evidence, rather than the writings of a few people who have seen a stack of propaganda on sites like Facebook or the 'Defence' website.

Footballers are in a position where they are held up as icons, rightly or wrongly. They are involved in soccer academies and outreach programs.

I don't believe he should be eligible to join any Premier or Championship teams. If he joins a lower team and they work their way up then fair does. Similarly once his full sentence is complete then he should be eligible to transfer to any club.

One thing that he should do before he signs up to any club is denounce the idiots who have hounded the girl online.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I think I will trust the judgement of the jury who saw and listened to ALL of the evidence, rather than the writings of a few people who have seen a stack of propaganda on sites like Facebook or the 'Defence' website.

Footballers are in a position where they are held up as icons, rightly or wrongly. They are involved in soccer academies and outreach programs.

One thing that he should do before he signs up to any club is denounce the idiots who have hounded the girl online."

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

"It is ironic that the people shouting for the man not to be employed because he was convicted of rape are threatening rape to innocent people who work for the club

9 "supporters" of his have already been found guilty of doing this... there are further prosecutions coming!!!

not saying two wrongs make a right...just showing it has happened on both sides... on one side for the past 3 years!!!!"

I havnt given my view on the case itself ...I was just commenting on the news today.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"He may not have got a life sentence but his victim did. Something she will have with her for the rest of her life. The lack of thought/reference/sympathy or compassion towards the victim in your OP is quite shocking! Well she didn't seem that upset when she tweeted to her friends about what shes going to buy them n the holidays shes gonna take them on when she 'hits the big-time'...tweets she n her legal team denied sending by the way lol but some American fireman thats got nothing to do with the case found them them on a French website coz he was concerned about the Civil Liberties aspect of the case or didn't you read that on facebook or the Scum (sun)??? Which makes some believe that this was all a set up in the first place see hence the very unusual fast tracked appeal/review. Evans was seen as something of a superstar in the small communities of North Wales see ..."

Not really, i haven't followed the case or followed the facebook campaign. What I do have experience of and have seen with my own eyes is the effects a serious sexual assault has on another human being. The self harm, the nightmares, the flash back, the tears and the emotional pain caused by the hands of a rapist 15 years on from the ordeal. So my thoughts and sympathy's will always turn towards the victim in such circumstances!!!

If he was to be exonerated my thoughts would change but as it stands he's a convicted rapist and sex offender and have no respect for the "superstar of small North Welsh communities"!!!

There's still a distinct lack of compassion in your posts towards victims of rape and seem more bothered about the rights and wrongs of activism through social media. Maybe your attention 'should' be focused elsewhere!

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By *coutin4girlz OP Man
over a year ago

Moo-Moo land :-)

Try reading the beginning of this Thread folks,CLEARLY states that WE ALL know what he did was WRONG!!!..(even if he cant see that). My point all along has been why is he being singled out when other much more high profile people that done hell of a lot worse than him are allowed to carry their careers n gain adulation as well as a shedload of money without the facebook fusiliers picking on them n some of you have even contributed to their fame n fortune lol n hardly any of you have been able to answer me why hes the ONLY one to be singled out...What a bunch of hypocrites some of you are n shows how ill-informed a lot of you are too....I repeat hes a convicted rapist and all I wanted to know is why are other stars treated differently...thanks folks...

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By *vsnikkiTV/TS
over a year ago

Limavady

We allow senior terrorists and murderers to be politicians . Is it any worse to allow rapists to be football players?

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By *coutin4girlz OP Man
over a year ago

Moo-Moo land :-)

"We allow senior terrorists and murderers to be politicians . Is it any worse to allow rapists to be football players?"
Shows how ill infomed these people are, unless theyve read it in the Scum or on facebook they havent got a clue,just sheep following their flock sadly if not dangerously lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

He's s convicted rapist .. It's there in black and white ... Would you want him near your kids or daughter of wife ???

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By *coutin4girlz OP Man
over a year ago

Moo-Moo land :-)

"He's s convicted rapist .. It's there in black and white ... Would you want him near your kids or daughter of wife ???"
I know that I've said that lots if times n who would know if your daughter or whatever is with a rapist..do they wear badges or something???

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

"He's s convicted rapist .. It's there in black and white ... Would you want him near your kids or daughter of wife ???"

I honestly don't think I'd be overly worried. It's not like he's going to suddenly run of the football bitch, grab my wife or daughter (if I had them) and drag them of to the changing room to have is wicked way with them. Is it?

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By *coutin4girlz OP Man
over a year ago

Moo-Moo land :-)

I'm gonna start another thread in the moning so a lot of folks had better get the the wet wipes out to wipe all the egg of their faces n hopefully bring a bit of rationallity back to our Country...nite all n thanks anyway to all who have expressed their views even if we dont see eye to eye n thats how it should be...cheers now

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