FabSwingers.com forum: Is it time to make people work for their benefits?

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Yes, i know, the subject has been much talked about for donkey's years but never implemented. But surey, the advantages far outwiegh the disadvantages.

For starters :

Improved self esteem, the vast majority say they want to work, working gives satisfaction (or at least should).

Skills, many would experience and develop skills to move onto the more normal category of work.

Health, the general level of peoples health would improve considerably. Not only in reducing such as obesity but also such as pseudo-Depression.

A returning sense of commonality, giving something back to society, making Britain a place to be proud of.

Obviously, the Govt will not be setting up say a huge biscuit factory, but there are thouasnds of ways "work" can help us all :

Cleaning up urban areas

Maintaining and improving the countryside and access thereto

Communal allotments and market gardens.

Any more thoughts?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

For young people, 18-25 far better to provide funding to employers and start proper apprenticeship schemes to allow our next generation the ability to learn proper skills which they can use for a lifetime rather than demonising them and teaching them how to pick up litter.

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By *icefellatwoMan
over a year ago

hastings

"For young people, 18-25 far better to provide funding to employers and start proper apprenticeship schemes to allow our next generation the ability to learn proper skills which they can use for a lifetime rather than demonising them and teaching them how to pick up litter."

That all sounds good until you take one on and the day after he had his first wages he phoned up to say he had missed the bus.

That was 18 months ago still not turned up.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

That all sounds good until you take one on and the day after he had his first wages he phoned up to say he had missed the bus.

That was 18 months ago still not turned up."

If he has made a conscious decision not to work, and is fit and able to do so then he should be left to his own devices, not supported by the state.

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By *icefellatwoMan
over a year ago

hastings

That all sounds good until you take one on and the day after he had his first wages he phoned up to say he had missed the bus.

That was 18 months ago still not turned up.

If he has made a conscious decision not to work, and is fit and able to do so then he should be left to his own devices, not supported by the state."

yes I agree but he still gets his handout

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes get them filling in the pot holes etc

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes, i know, the subject has been much talked about for donkey's years but never implemented. But surey, the advantages far outwiegh the disadvantages.

For starters :

Improved self esteem, the vast majority say they want to work, working gives satisfaction (or at least should).

Skills, many would experience and develop skills to move onto the more normal category of work.

Health, the general level of peoples health would improve considerably. Not only in reducing such as obesity but also such as pseudo-Depression.

A returning sense of commonality, giving something back to society, making Britain a place to be proud of.

Obviously, the Govt will not be setting up say a huge biscuit factory, but there are thouasnds of ways "work" can help us all :

Cleaning up urban areas

Maintaining and improving the countryside and access thereto

Communal allotments and market gardens.

Any more thoughts?"

And when are they supposed to do their job searching? Have you ever been made redundant then your dole stopped after 6 months, because your partner is earning over 17k? Ever had to go seriously into the red to cover your mortgage so you don't lose your house and end up in A rent trap that means the govt will have to hand out housing benefit? Ever thought about how much you will pay these people, and the hidden costs (organisation, insurance etc)? Its not economically viable unless you want people working for next to nothing. In which case it would tend to work out that they would be better off at home looking for work, not having to pay for childcare or transport costs. I don't consider digging ditches or litter picking as improving my self esteem and I have plenty of training and qualifications in other areas. I don't know what pseudo depression is. I'm not a psychiatrist. Neither, I suspect, are you.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

That all sounds good until you take one on and the day after he had his first wages he phoned up to say he had missed the bus.

That was 18 months ago still not turned up.

If he has made a conscious decision not to work, and is fit and able to do so then he should be left to his own devices, not supported by the state.

yes I agree but he still gets his handout

Sanctions have always happened, even under Labour government.

People get their money cut if they don't go on those obligatory training courses or do voluntary work. You only had to go on them every 6 months under labour, now there's even more reasons to be sanctioned and they're stupid ones half the time.

I think people should be paid a living wage for work they do. No welfare for corporations, possibly some welfare for businesses that do give out proper training and skills, anyone can stack a shelf, work a till or sweep a floor ffs...you do not need 6-12 months unpaid training for stuff like that.

I think it's also reasonable to accept that there is never going to be 100% employment either.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes, i know, the subject has been much talked about for donkey's years but never implemented. But surey, the advantages far outwiegh the disadvantages.

For starters :

Improved self esteem, the vast majority say they want to work, working gives satisfaction (or at least should).

Skills, many would experience and develop skills to move onto the more normal category of work.

Health, the general level of peoples health would improve considerably. Not only in reducing such as obesity but also such as pseudo-Depression.

A returning sense of commonality, giving something back to society, making Britain a place to be proud of.

Obviously, the Govt will not be setting up say a huge biscuit factory, but there are thouasnds of ways "work" can help us all :

Cleaning up urban areas

Maintaining and improving the countryside and access thereto

Communal allotments and market gardens.

Any more thoughts?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I was made redundant in September from a fairly senior job in a bank, I left school in 1978 and have never been unemployed.

I have applied for circa 25 jobs, I have had one interview that I didnt get, 4 thanks but no thanks and no response off of the rest. It's all online now and they make a little disclaimer when you apply that they'll get lots of applications and, if you don't hear, it's a no.

I am willing to consider anything by the way. Someone advised me to apply for job seekers allowance, which I did, i feel like a looser because the job centre treat everyone like they are trying it on.

I have done many things in my working life from labourer, builder, electrician, manager of shops and warehouses, toolmaker, welder, BT engineer, professional musician bouncer and even personal bodyguard.

With 25 years in banking, I have qualifications coming out of my ears, but unless I want to do the same thing (and the banks are shedding staff wholesale) they count for very little

I can't get a job at the mo. I know it's a bad time of year, but take It from me, it's fucking soul destroying.

I guess what I'm saying is, I understand there are some spongers, but Im not the only one in my position.

As a single guy, supporting myself and my son at uni, I've seen my income drop from £60k a year to £70 per week.

I know I will get a job, because it's not in my nature to sit on my arse and, to boot, I'm bored shitless, but at 50, it ain't going to be easy.

Working for benefits....rather just work

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

if people were made to work for benefit,, would it not just encourage cheap labour?

why would people create jobs they have to pay people a minimum wage when essentially they could get labour for 'free'

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes, benefits should be worked for, but only for the long term unemployed. Litter picking and the like are not exactly taxing, but needs doing. Over-stretched local authorities are having to cut many services as they cannot afford the manpower to carry out the tasks involved. Bring in benefits claimants to free up the trained staff and the problem would be eased. The biggest problem would be monitoring the work being done.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Fight for years to get a minimum wage implemented, continue the fight to bring this up to a living wage; then make the unemployed work for what would effectively be £2/hour?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Working on Benefits is all well and good but are you suggesting a full working week for 70 quid or 70 quid's worth of work at minimum wage? If it's the latter then all well and good but if it's the former then no chance!! What self respecting person would do a full weeks graft for 70 quid?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Yes, benefits should be worked for, but only for the long term unemployed. Litter picking and the like are not exactly taxing, but needs doing. Over-stretched local authorities are having to cut many services as they cannot afford the manpower to carry out the tasks involved. Bring in benefits claimants to free up the trained staff and the problem would be eased. The biggest problem would be monitoring the work being done."

What's "long term"?

Are you suggesting that councils would not lay off staff, during these austerity cuts, and utilise the unemployed at a fraction of the cost. Every way you turn, the working class is getting shat on. From a very great height.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"if people were made to work for benefit,, would it not just encourage cheap labour?

why would people create jobs they have to pay people a minimum wage when essentially they could get labour for 'free' "

This is the problem that wasn't aforementioned, there's spongers throughout society, - from the gutter, through corporations paying little to no tax, through the super rich hiding money overseas, to politicians expenses' claims, & right up to Windsor Castle!!

I say, start at the top & work your way down!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I know ex servicemen who cant leave their flats an find human communication very hard an even do their food shopping early hours so they dont come into contact with too many people. All these freak show documentaries need to stop as they are making society not a nice place to be..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Such an idea as you propose, OP, would create unemployment: councils, for example, already employ people to clear litter. They won't employ more if it is cheaper to do so. They would simply use the 70 pound a week option that you suggest rather than employ someone full time, having to pay minimum wage.

What is needed, instead, is greater investment and strengthening of our economy, so that opportunities exist for people across all sectors. As one poster has posted, try living on 70 pound a week when you have been used to living off much greater wages (he said 60k p.a.). Do you think people in that situation don't want to work?

I have high level qualifications: try getting a mundane job when you are better qualified than the people you apply to. Funnily enough, they don't want to employ you!

The demonisation of those on benefits is extremely offensive to those in such a situation.

As for "pseudo" depression, try living on next to nothing, being pitched into debt, having to worry about paying your mortgage. There is nothing "psuedo" about the depression that you will feel.

Then try being told you should pick litter for 70 quid a week!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"if people were made to work for benefit,, would it not just encourage cheap labour?

why would people create jobs they have to pay people a minimum wage when essentially they could get labour for 'free'

I say, start at the top & work your way down!!"

Having been made redundant three times in three years I know to my cost the 'soul destroying' that goes along with it. I wouldn't wish it on an enemy. I'm finally back on my feet, though it took some doing.

I really don't believe the spongers are the majority, yet we're more than happy to tar everyone. Isn't it time people actually looked at the facts and made their own mind up, rather than being told what's going on?

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By *coutin4girlzMan
over a year ago

Moo-Moo land :-)

People already work for their Benefit n have done for a few years. I'm a s/e Plasterer n when work was quiet a few years ago I signed-on just to get the Council Tax off my back mainly n help with bills but after 6weeks I was told to go on a course or be sanctioned (no benefit). The course was going round clearing rubbish/riverbanks n to get me used to working again but didn't start until 10am lol I told um I'm up earlier than that when not working n much earlier when I was n shouldn't be treated the same as criminals that do Community Service (yes I've done all that). Thank god I gotta call the Sunday before I was due to start n have never had to sign-on since. The twats in the jobcentre treated me like Scum even tho I work a dam sight harder than them n was just going through a quiet spell due to the greedy bastard bankers n incompetent politicians that created the financial crisis in the first place...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

So what happens to those already employed by councils for example picking litter up. They loose their jobs and end up doing it for dole money. What is needed is employers that are williing to invest in employees and train people, not moan about a skills shortage.

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By *B9 QueenWoman
over a year ago

Over the rainbow, under the bridge

Make people work for benefits? No.

If we can find work for them on benefits then we can fibd proper jobs for them with proper pay with tax and NI contributions taken from gross to put in the pot.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Lets take someone who has worked hard for 30 years, good pay, higher tax bracket and is then injured, cant work & disabled

I think he/she has paid enough into society, yet you want them to work more

you cannot classify everyone in the same basket, each has individual circumstances

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"People already work for their Benefit n have done for a few years. I'm a s/e Plasterer n when work was quiet a few years ago I signed-on just to get the Council Tax off my back mainly n help with bills but after 6weeks I was told to go on a course or be sanctioned (no benefit). The course was going round clearing rubbish/riverbanks n to get me used to working again but didn't start until 10am lol I told um I'm up earlier than that when not working n much earlier when I was n shouldn't be treated the same as criminals that do Community Service (yes I've done all that). Thank god I gotta call the Sunday before I was due to start n have never had to sign-on since. The twats in the jobcentre treated me like Scum even tho I work a dam sight harder than them n was just going through a quiet spell due to the greedy bastard bankers n incompetent politicians that created the financial crisis in the first place...

"
well thats the tactics used by the government... Look for a group of people, in this case the unemployed, disabled, vunerable etc.. Then shift the blame onto them.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"
well thats the tactics used by the government... Look for a group of people, in this case the unemployed, disabled, vunerable etc.. Then shift the blame onto them.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Useful training and work experience in the job they are training for would work better

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

"Useful training and work experience in the job they are training for would work better"

Yes and if jobs picking up litter can he organised then jobs that will actually give a person a skill that will last them a lifetime can be organised instead. Or am I missing.something ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 07/01/15 17:55:33]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Each case should be looked at individually. For example, we are on benefits but I have a full time job looking after our youngest daughter who needs 24 hour care. Hex is at college full time to gain a piece of paper that says he can do a job he's been able to do for years. Should we both then have to go out litter picking?

I get that there are people that sponge and have never worked a day in their life and have no intention of but there are a whole lot more genuine cases. To stereotype is being rather narrow minded.

Hids

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By *hetalkingstoveMan
over a year ago

London

How about first we make MPs work for their over the top expenses? And make corporations pay the tax they're supposed to?

Oh, wait, it's much more self gratifying to look down on unemployed people and decide they're all spongers.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes, i know, the subject has been much talked about for donkey's years but never implemented. But surey, the advantages far outwiegh the disadvantages.

For starters :

Improved self esteem, the vast majority say they want to work, working gives satisfaction (or at least should).

Skills, many would experience and develop skills to move onto the more normal category of work.

Health, the general level of peoples health would improve considerably. Not only in reducing such as obesity but also such as pseudo-Depression.

A returning sense of commonality, giving something back to society, making Britain a place to be proud of.

Obviously, the Govt will not be setting up say a huge biscuit factory, but there are thouasnds of ways "work" can help us all :

Cleaning up urban areas

Maintaining and improving the countryside and access thereto

Communal allotments and market gardens.

Any more thoughts?

Well said.

Also what happens to the people currently employed to fill holes, cut grass, pick litter ? Make them unemployed then do the same job for a fraction of the cash to " improve their self esteem " ????? What a load of cobblers and bollox.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You REAP WHAT YOU SOW

Especially if you live in Scotland and you are a NO voter

have a nice day now

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Useful training and work experience in the job they are training for would work better

Yes and if jobs picking up litter can he organised then jobs that will actually give a person a skill that will last them a lifetime can be organised instead. Or am I missing.something ?"

The courses they offer are very basic,you need to pay for the next levels to be considered for a job. Without the experience you have no chance

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes, i know, the subject has been much talked about for donkey's years but never implemented. But surey, the advantages far outwiegh the disadvantages.

For starters :

Improved self esteem, the vast majority say they want to work, working gives satisfaction (or at least should).

Skills, many would experience and develop skills to move onto the more normal category of work.

Health, the general level of peoples health would improve considerably. Not only in reducing such as obesity but also such as pseudo-Depression.

A returning sense of commonality, giving something back to society, making Britain a place to be proud of.

Obviously, the Govt will not be setting up say a huge biscuit factory, but there are thouasnds of ways "work" can help us all :

Cleaning up urban areas

Maintaining and improving the countryside and access thereto

Communal allotments and market gardens.

Any more thoughts?"

As I say to my students, sometimes what sounds good in your head isn't translated well into your written work. Proof read your work and have a wee think about what you've just said

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By *issHottieBottieWoman
over a year ago

Kent

Haven't read the rest of the replies but if those jobs listed need doing and a benefits claimant was prepared to do it then surely create a proper job and pay them a proper wage to do it!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Haven't read the rest of the replies but if those jobs listed need doing and a benefits claimant was prepared to do it then surely create a proper job and pay them a proper wage to do it!

Literally everyone has said this. I love this topic and have faith in humans once more.

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By *oole2010Couple
over a year ago

southampto

"if people were made to work for benefit,, would it not just encourage cheap labour?

why would people create jobs they have to pay people a minimum wage when essentially they could get labour for 'free' "

yes it would totally agree with you it wouldnt be to long before the unscrupulous employers wont even have to pay the minimum wage so they can boost the profits and there would then be more on the dole

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By *oole2010Couple
over a year ago

southampto

"Each case should be looked at individually. For example, we are on benefits but I have a full time job looking after our youngest daughter who needs 24 hour care. Hex is at college full time to gain a piece of paper that says he can do a job he's been able to do for years. Should we both then have to go out litter picking?

I get that there are people that sponge and have never worked a day in their life and have no intention of but there are a whole lot more genuine cases. To stereotype is being rather narrow minded.

yes agree with your comments on people being treated on an individual basis

for a start in the age of computers they should be able to see from your ni record how many contributions you paid and how long you have worked for, therefore they could give people a bit of leaway if you have been laid off after 30 years you obviously aint a scrounger

turn that around and people who havent worked for 5-10 years (not including disability or the like or mums looking after the home)should have the pressure put on them first, as i cant believe people on the dole cannot find a job in the 5-10 years

Hids"

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By *plankyMan
over a year ago

Beeston

Get all the slackers off benefits.

Train them all as doctors.....

Is there a third problem....?

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By *plankyMan
over a year ago

Beeston

I'm assuming their English is good enough to work as doctors

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By *ust_for_laughsCouple
over a year ago

Hinckley

"Haven't read the rest of the replies but if those jobs listed need doing and a benefits claimant was prepared to do it then surely create a proper job and pay them a proper wage to do it!

Literally everyone has said this. I love this topic and have faith in humans once more."

Does make you wonder where all the usual suspects are; they must work for a living

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Its not easy for those that Want to work but don't have the experience sadly not everyone can afford apprenticeships. my partner has been turned away because of a lack of exp how do you get it if No one is willing to hire you and let you gain the exp on the job? Not all benefit claimants can help being on benefits. sadly bills need paid and they need paid somehow.

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By *issHottieBottieWoman
over a year ago

Kent

"Haven't read the rest of the replies but if those jobs listed need doing and a benefits claimant was prepared to do it then surely create a proper job and pay them a proper wage to do it!

Literally everyone has said this. I love this topic and have faith in humans once more.

Does make you wonder where all the usual suspects are; they must work for a living

There's threads about Muslims running. They'll be over there

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By *inaTitzTV/TS
over a year ago

Titz Towers, North Notts

There's threads about Muslims running. They'll be over there

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By *L RogueMan
over a year ago

London

"if people were made to work for benefit,, would it not just encourage cheap labour?

why would people create jobs they have to pay people a minimum wage when essentially they could get labour for 'free'

I say, start at the top & work your way down!!"

I agree. Cut from the people with something to cut!

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By *ust_for_laughsCouple
over a year ago

Hinckley

"Haven't read the rest of the replies but if those jobs listed need doing and a benefits claimant was prepared to do it then surely create a proper job and pay them a proper wage to do it!

Literally everyone has said this. I love this topic and have faith in humans once more.

Does make you wonder where all the usual suspects are; they must work for a living

There's threads about Muslims running. They'll be over there

They'll be back, after all, Muslims are the work shy, lazy, benefit scrounging, terrorist parasites who come over here and take all our jobs aren't they?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Ha ha brill. The German people were manipulated by Hitler with clever propaganda, the TV is the best tool to fool. There is a lot more than meets the eye. What will happen once we destroy our rights to help when we lose our jobs. Yes there's work now. Once they have succeeded in destroying our rights.Everyone will have to work for less money no fallback no fight, its a lot deeper than most people realise. The goverment is spinning, manipulating, and brainwashing. Maggie lives on I'm alright Jack or maybe not? Time will tell lol

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By *ig1gaz1Man
over a year ago

bradford

Is it time to make people work for their benefits?

well you could get the people on the dole the people on the esa and disabled all to work for your benefits

but what happens to those that do work first off you will be given less hours and no overtime for you to earn as the free ones will be getting these jobs

then what happens to you if your then sacked because of the person working for free after all your company is not paying a wage to them the government is

your on the same system as the free workers the biggest insult is to be given your old job back and your now working for free

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What's "long term"?

This is the monitoring problem I was referring to. Local authorities would need to be regulated in their response and not allowed to lay off staff. The work done by benefits claimants would have to be in addition to, not instead of that carried out by local authorities.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What's "long term"?

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By *aeganaWoman
over a year ago

birmingham

what about people on benefits because they are disabled and cant work sorry but these shows they put on tv give people who need benefits for reasons a bad name yes some use the system but there are people out there who genuinely need the goverments help and cant work.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I was made redundant in September from a fairly senior job in a bank, I left school in 1978 and have never been unemployed.

With 25 years in banking, I have qualifications coming out of my ears, but unless I want to do the same thing (and the banks are shedding staff wholesale) they count for very little

I can't get a job at the mo. I know it's a bad time of year, but take It from me, it's fucking soul destroying.

I guess what I'm saying is, I understand there are some spongers, but Im not the only one in my position.

As a single guy, supporting myself and my son at uni, I've seen my income drop from £60k a year to £70 per week.

I know I will get a job, because it's not in my nature to sit on my arse and, to boot, I'm bored shitless, but at 50, it ain't going to be easy.

Working for benefits....rather just work

Sounds like it's time that you made your own business venture.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

And are you going to allow them to be paid national minimum wage for this work you are forcing them to do, and can it run concurrently with community service if they have been really naughty lately!

And what about all the urban street cleaners that the local councils employ, shall we just reduce their wages to what is it? £65 a week, why not let them do your job, I'm sure some of them must be capable... Legalise drugs, you'll find a good proportion of them would suddenly be gainfully employed... Some really good ideas in this thread...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As per always;

nzimmigrationcom

.......is that coffee I smell?

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By *ust RachelTV/TS
over a year ago

Horsham

[Removed by poster at 08/01/15 08:11:17]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I dont approve of this at all. We have this system in Ireland and its a disaster and exploited in a serious way by companies. For an extra 50quid on top of your benefits you work an entire week so basically come out with 230 a week. Despite the fact your there a year most jobs dont provide the training they promise, the job thats guaranteed thats open is suddenly gone at the end of it and the position is advertised again under a slightly different name a week or two later. Very few starter position are now available as a result for school leavers or people looking to return to work. It needs to be overhauled and no the companies dont pay a thing to the person they take on, the social does.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

its just a clever way of getting half the country to work for fuck all.make the rich richer and the poor poorer.it wont be long before we have a giant statue of chairman mao in the middle of Piccadilly circus..lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Is this making friends with benefits work?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The benefit system was invented to help the vulnerable. I agree areas of it need looking at, however it's there as a safety net for those falling on hard times.

It's a shame more companies don't offer short term re-training programmes for the long term unemployed. Many can't go back to study as there's a cost and it's prohibitive.

I'd be concerned if we went with your suggestion at those involved actually earning less than the minimum wage. That's no incentive at all! It would be more demoralising.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Getting people to do jobs that they don't want to do so to higher their self esteem?

Not giving this labour even a minimum wage for doing the job?

Working should be to improve your situation not a punishment for not being able to find a job. Make work pay better then being on benefits not by cutting benefits but by forcing companies & businesses to pay fairly. The people at the top have gotten away with taking the piss for far too long

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By *arry247Couple
over a year ago

Wakefield

The flaw in this thread is the vast majority of people who get benefits are already in full time work.

The unemployed are a tiny proportion of those receiving benefits

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Getting people to do jobs that they don't want to do so to higher their self esteem?

Not giving this labour even a minimum wage for doing the job?

All stick and no carrot. We were supposed to be getting away from the Victorian mill owners mindset. Some people cant wait to get back to it. Very short sighted.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Getting people to do jobs that they don't want to do so to higher their self esteem?

Not giving this labour even a minimum wage for doing the job?

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

Yes, i know, the subject has been much talked about for donkey's years but never implemented. But surey, the advantages far outwiegh the disadvantages.

For starters :

Improved self esteem, the vast majority say they want to work, working gives satisfaction (or at least should).

Skills, many would experience and develop skills to move onto the more normal category of work.

Health, the general level of peoples health would improve considerably. Not only in reducing such as obesity but also such as pseudo-Depression.

A returning sense of commonality, giving something back to society, making Britain a place to be proud of.

Obviously, the Govt will not be setting up say a huge biscuit factory, but there are thouasnds of ways "work" can help us all :

Cleaning up urban areas

Maintaining and improving the countryside and access thereto

Communal allotments and market gardens.

Any more thoughts?"

Have you not heard of Workfare and the problems with it?

Why would companies create paying jobs when they can get free slave labour?

If there is work to be done, employ people to do it. It still gets them off benefits and they are contributing income tax too.

Leave the jobless in a position to study to gain new skills and actually seek work.

How enforced slavery can increase anyone's self-esteem is beyond me.

It's a bad idea because the government can't be trusted not to abuse the plan, to the detriment of job seekers and the benefit of their corporate cronies. They're already proving this.

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

"The flaw in this thread is the vast majority of people who get benefits are already in full time work.

The unemployed are a tiny proportion of those receiving benefits"

If employers, especially the large ones, raking in huge profits, paid a living wage, the benefit bill would drop.

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

"Getting people to do jobs that they don't want to do so to higher their self esteem?

Not giving this labour even a minimum wage for doing the job?

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

"I know ex servicemen who cant leave their flats an find human communication very hard an even do their food shopping early hours so they dont come into contact with too many people. All these freak show documentaries need to stop as they are making society not a nice place to be.."

It isn't just ex-servicemen.

And the cut beyond the bone health system isn't helping.

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

"if people were made to work for benefit,, would it not just encourage cheap labour?

why would people create jobs they have to pay people a minimum wage when essentially they could get labour for 'free' "

Not only would it. It does.

The government's work programme (workfare) already routinely makes people work full-time for their benefit. And companies are being paid to take the slaves too!

Of course they aren't creating paid positions when they get slaves, sometimes hundreds of them, free.

Plus, as people will be sanctioned for any form of insubordination, they can abuse these people to whatever extent they feel like.

The lie is that these "positions" can lead to full-time, paid employment. Only in a handful of cases does that happen. Usually at the end of the enforced slavery the company make an excuse not to keep them on and take on a new gang of slaves.

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

"I dont approve of this at all. We have this system in Ireland and its a disaster and exploited in a serious way by companies. For an extra 50quid on top of your benefits you work an entire week so basically come out with 230 a week. Despite the fact your there a year most jobs dont provide the training they promise, the job thats guaranteed thats open is suddenly gone at the end of it and the position is advertised again under a slightly different name a week or two later. Very few starter position are now available as a result for school leavers or people looking to return to work. It needs to be overhauled and no the companies dont pay a thing to the person they take on, the social does."

It happens here too, routinely, and people aren't paid anything on top of their benefits.

This discussion clearly shows, however, that most people simply aren't aware it even happens, never mind the effects of it and how it's abused by the government and big companies.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The lie is that these "positions" can lead to full-time, paid employment. Only in a handful of cases does that happen. Usually at the end of the enforced slavery the company make an excuse not to keep them on and take on a new gang of slaves."

I agree with everything you've said but this last bit happened to me. British Telecom 'sacked' me when i was on a work scheme training and took on more trainees, i got my benefits stopped because of it.

BT eventually got fined for abusing the system but took years for that too happen and the fine won't have been as much as the profit they got from using taxpayers to pay their 'employees' wages, that's why they do it.

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

"Get all the slackers off benefits.

Train them all as doctors.....

Is there a third problem....?"

Slackers? Nice.

I'd actually love to train as a doctor. I have the qualifications to be accepted to do so, and to be likely to be accepted.

Because I already have a BSc, and even though a medical degree rates as a Master's level course, I'm not eligible for any of the student loans to enable me to afford to do it. In fact, there are no funding options available to me. Even getting a bank loan is virtually impossible because the level of fees now means it has to be such a large loan, and it's many years before banks see a return on it (assuming the borrower even successfully completes the course).

Funding a medical degree yourself costs an absolute minimum of £60k and usually a hell of a lot more.

Yet we're short of doctors and need to recruit abroad. Go figure.

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By *inaTitzTV/TS
over a year ago

Titz Towers, North Notts

I dislike the idea of punishing the unfortunate just for putting half a penny on my income tax.

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

The government also pay them to take on work programme slaves.

There's also been questions raised over whether these slaves, as they are not employees, are covered by company insurance.

They certainly don't get benefits such as holiday allowance and they can have their benefit stopped for taking even a day or two off sick, even with a certificate from a GP (which it's not usually possible to get for illness lasting fewer than 7 days).

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By *earboynottinghamMan
over a year ago

Nottingham

Yes, i know, the subject has been much talked about for donkey's years but never implemented. But surey, the advantages far outwiegh the disadvantages.

For starters :

Improved self esteem, the vast majority say they want to work, working gives satisfaction (or at least should).

Skills, many would experience and develop skills to move onto the more normal category of work.

Health, the general level of peoples health would improve considerably. Not only in reducing such as obesity but also such as pseudo-Depression.

A returning sense of commonality, giving something back to society, making Britain a place to be proud of.

Obviously, the Govt will not be setting up say a huge biscuit factory, but there are thouasnds of ways "work" can help us all :

Cleaning up urban areas

Maintaining and improving the countryside and access thereto

Communal allotments and market gardens.

Any more thoughts?"

Why spend money making them do those kinds of things?

Surely the same money could be spent on just employing people to do those jobs at the living wage.

What is JSA at the moment? £70 a week? In order to get that you have to do 35 hours of job searching and provide evidence. If people are litter picking then when are they meant to search for a job?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We used to have a major "work for benefits" scheme in this country, it was called Nationalised Industry.

Even recently with the post office sell out, the first step of privatisation is to cut the staff, increase the profits for the shareholders and the benefits bill for the tax payers.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The government also pay them to take on work programme slaves.

There's also been questions raised over whether these slaves, as they are not employees, are covered by company insurance.

True. Undermining everything the unions fought for to get us more work rights. People died when asking for those rights too.

Kind of weird how fascism is on the uptake ever since we've all been made worse off, for no real reason. Austerity is bullshit.

You've done a real good job in getting your points across and defending your arguments.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The government also pay them to take on work programme slaves.

There's also been questions raised over whether these slaves, as they are not employees, are covered by company insurance.

True. Undermining everything the unions fought for to get us more work rights. People died when asking for those rights too.

Kind of weird how fascism is on the uptake ever since we've all been made worse off, for no real reason. Austerity is bullshit.

You've done a real good job in getting your points across and defending your arguments."

Oh how the wheel turns! You can set your watch by it.

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By *oulou45Woman
over a year ago

Bucks

My dad receives , housing benefit on top of his pension. Despite the fact that his worked all his adult life, and has poor health. Oh yes and his 74 should he go out to work for his housing benefit. We have to remember not everyone has asked to be out of work. Also what about low wage earners who claim benefits, are they expected to do extra work ?

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

"My dad receives , housing benefit on top of his pension. Despite the fact that his worked all his adult life, and has poor health. Oh yes and his 74 should he go out to work for his housing benefit. We have to remember not everyone has asked to be out of work. Also what about low wage earners who claim benefits, are they expected to do extra work ?"

These suggestions are rarely thought through to their logical conclusion and there is never any consideration of costs involved or administration etc.

Something need to be done but that something is getting the country back to economic strength so that we have as close to full employment as it is possible to have.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The government also pay them to take on work programme slaves.

There's also been questions raised over whether these slaves, as they are not employees, are covered by company insurance.

True. Undermining everything the unions fought for to get us more work rights. People died when asking for those rights too.

Kind of weird how fascism is on the uptake ever since we've all been made worse off, for no real reason. Austerity is bullshit.

You've done a real good job in getting your points across and defending your arguments.

Oh how the wheel turns! You can set your watch by it."

What's that mean? Not arguing about it just don't know what it means.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

IMHO the answer is not to give private companies incentives to take on the unemployed, as this merely increases their profits at the expense of the taxpayer, but to have them doing work that needs doing in the community, maintaining roads parks etc. as referred to in earlier comments.

People in receipt of unemployment benefit from the state are effectively "employees" of the state until they find other employment and should therefore do as required for the good of the taxpayer to qualify for their benefit. Government and Councils can then spend their money on keeping care homes open and the health and education of us all.

A slightly different situation but one that I think is worth mentioning is that Timpsons the shoe/watch repairers have a large amount of ex-convicts as employees. They, as far as I am aware, receive no state help for this but are making a good profit and reducing the rates of re-offending etc.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The government also pay them to take on work programme slaves.

There's also been questions raised over whether these slaves, as they are not employees, are covered by company insurance.

True. Undermining everything the unions fought for to get us more work rights. People died when asking for those rights too.

Kind of weird how fascism is on the uptake ever since we've all been made worse off, for no real reason. Austerity is bullshit.

You've done a real good job in getting your points across and defending your arguments.

Oh how the wheel turns! You can set your watch by it.

What's that mean? Not arguing about it just don't know what it means."

The rise and fall of the far right tendencies. They go hand in hand with boom and bust economics.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"IMHO the answer is not to give private companies incentives to take on the unemployed, as this merely increases their profits at the expense of the taxpayer, but to have them doing work that needs doing in the community, maintaining roads parks etc. as referred to in earlier comments.

They are NOT employees of the state. They paid NI to help them when they needed it. Benefits are NOT wages.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

They are NOT employees of the state. They paid NI to help them when they needed it. Benefits are NOT wages."

Maybe instead paying companies to take the unemployed for slave labour they should consider investing that money in turning this community work into full time jobs.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

They are NOT employees of the state. They paid NI to help them when they needed it. Benefits are NOT wages.

Maybe instead paying companies to take the unemployed for slave labour they should consider investing that money in turning this community work into full time jobs."

That's part of the problem, the community work that is being suggested was once done by people in full time jobs...they were made redundant due to cutbacks.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

They are NOT employees of the state. They paid NI to help them when they needed it. Benefits are NOT wages.

Maybe instead paying companies to take the unemployed for slave labour they should consider investing that money in turning this community work into full time jobs.

That's part of the problem, the community work that is being suggested was once done by people in full time jobs...they were made redundant due to cutbacks. "

Yep and from what I can see all in order to provide big company shareholders with larger profits and cheaper labour.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes, i know, the subject has been much talked about for donkey's years but never implemented. But surey, the advantages far outwiegh the disadvantages.

For starters :

Improved self esteem, the vast majority say they want to work, working gives satisfaction (or at least should).

Skills, many would experience and develop skills to move onto the more normal category of work.

Health, the general level of peoples health would improve considerably. Not only in reducing such as obesity but also such as pseudo-Depression.

A returning sense of commonality, giving something back to society, making Britain a place to be proud of.

Obviously, the Govt will not be setting up say a huge biscuit factory, but there are thouasnds of ways "work" can help us all :

Cleaning up urban areas

Maintaining and improving the countryside and access thereto

Communal allotments and market gardens.

Any more thoughts?"

I agree but thanks to the EU we would have to pay basic pay and that would then be employment and the various departments would have to pay unless it was stipulated as voluntary when they are asked to do it. not going to bother with national service but good of country be it doing National parks etc giving lifeskills would be a start, it also might attract employers who would see that they are employable.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Iwould be happy to walk round the dunes in Studland picking up the litter, might need rubber gloves for some of it though, lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Would these same people,also be entitled to a full refund of their "National Insurance" contributions as well.

After all, selling compulsory insurance,that doesnt payout when the criteria is met, is still a crime in the UK is it not.

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

If unemployed people are employees of the state perhaps the state should be paying them minimum wage.

You do realise you are advocating forcing people to work for £70 per week when they're also trying to look for work?

How would you feel about being forced to work for £70 per week in whatever menial role you're dumped in, regardless of your abilities and qualifications, for the crime of losing your job?

That's going to build your confidence and self-esteem and equip you with new skills?

Unemployment benefit is below a reasonable subsistence amount and is certainly not a reasonable working wage.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes, i know, the subject has been much talked about for donkey's years but never implemented. But surey, the advantages far outwiegh the disadvantages.

For starters :

Improved self esteem, the vast majority say they want to work, working gives satisfaction (or at least should).

Skills, many would experience and develop skills to move onto the more normal category of work.

Health, the general level of peoples health would improve considerably. Not only in reducing such as obesity but also such as pseudo-Depression.

A returning sense of commonality, giving something back to society, making Britain a place to be proud of.

Obviously, the Govt will not be setting up say a huge biscuit factory, but there are thouasnds of ways "work" can help us all :

Cleaning up urban areas

Maintaining and improving the countryside and access thereto

Communal allotments and market gardens.

Any more thoughts?

Voluntary full weeks work for 70 quid and sanctioned if refused?

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

Yes, i know, the subject has been much talked about for donkey's years but never implemented. But surey, the advantages far outwiegh the disadvantages.

For starters :

Improved self esteem, the vast majority say they want to work, working gives satisfaction (or at least should).

Skills, many would experience and develop skills to move onto the more normal category of work.

Health, the general level of peoples health would improve considerably. Not only in reducing such as obesity but also such as pseudo-Depression.

A returning sense of commonality, giving something back to society, making Britain a place to be proud of.

Obviously, the Govt will not be setting up say a huge biscuit factory, but there are thouasnds of ways "work" can help us all :

Cleaning up urban areas

Maintaining and improving the countryside and access thereto

Communal allotments and market gardens.

Any more thoughts?

You missed that this actually already happens then? And that people are not paid minimum wage.

A lot of unemployed have plenty of skills and qualifications, and don't need to be forced into slavery to obtain "life skills".

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If unemployed people are employees of the state perhaps the state should be paying them minimum wage.

You do realise you are advocating forcing people to work for £70 per week when they're also trying to look for work?

How would you feel about being forced to work for £70 per week in whatever menial role you're dumped in, regardless of your abilities and qualifications, for the crime of losing your job?

That's going to build your confidence and self-esteem and equip you with new skills?

Unemployment benefit is below a reasonable subsistence amount and is certainly not a reasonable working wage."

Here's an idea. How about all the people suggesting working a full week for benefits accept a wage reduction to 70 quid per week and then use the savings to create more jobs? That'd easily give us 0% unemployment.....Happy Days

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By *eforfuncplCouple
over a year ago

Morecambe

I think most are fed up seeing people make no effort to work and just sponge of the goverment (us) and flaunt it on TV programmes witch shows them drinking everyday smoking playing xboxes etc it pisses the ordinary person off !

I'm not against helping people who need it but those that are just fucking lazy can't be arsed do my heid in!!

Should they work to get benefits ..... Why not ! Get a scheme to get potential employers view them working for their benefits would this not be a better way rather than argue can't do voluntary while looking for work (just an excuse?)

Xxx happy new year !! Xxx

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

"I think most are fed up seeing people make no effort to work and just sponge of the goverment (us) and flaunt it on TV programmes witch shows them drinking everyday smoking playing xboxes etc it pisses the ordinary person off !

I'm not against helping people who need it but those that are just fucking lazy can't be arsed do my heid in!!

Xxx happy new year !! Xxx

You've been taken in by government propaganda.

The benefit claimants you describe are a tiny, tiny minority and even then the programmes are edited to show them in the worst possible light.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm not against helping people who need it but those that are just fucking lazy can't be arsed do my heid in!!

Xxx happy new year !! Xxx

They are a minority and highlighted to instill the very attitudes that you see on here. You actually can't use Jobsearching as an excuse not to do Voluntary Work as the hours you are expected to search are reduce if you Volunteer.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Oh how the wheel turns! You can set your watch by it.

What's that mean? Not arguing about it just don't know what it means.

The rise and fall of the far right tendencies. They go hand in hand with boom and bust economics."

ok thanks for explaining what that meant, i get it now.

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By *homasP80Man
over a year ago

Linwood

I remember I volunteered for redundancy at end Oct 2012 after 15 years in the same job.

Although I was only unemployed for 4 months I DID look, apply for other jobs that may have suited, like a driver (under 7tonne) (as I don't have HGV) Most jobs did state "experience preferred, but not essential".

Some jobs just didn't suit.

But I ended up applying to go back into the same job I had been doing, but with a different company.

I'd rather do that than be unemployed/on benefits.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm not against helping people who need it but those that are just fucking lazy can't be arsed do my heid in!!

Xxx happy new year !! Xxx

Have you not read any of the above posts????

If the country adopts the system you support, it is only a matter of time before the job you do is taken off you and your employers use the 70 pound a week option instead.

Then you yourself will be out of work: and having to accept a very menial job for 70 quid a week.

Good idea?

Also, many on benefits currently work - and are so lowly paid that they have to get working tax credits etc.

Further, many of those out of work already do voluntary work. Proper voluntary work, that is, for charities etc.

As has already been posted several times, people receiving JSA have to put in a full working week job searching and/or attending courses. Others are pushed into effectively working for nothing: I was on a bus recently and talked to half a dozen youngsters who were having to work full time at a major company for nothing more than benefits plus 2 pounds a day lunch allowance. All under the doubtful premise that there might (though almost certainly not) be a job at the end of the scheme.

I call that slave labour.

People's poor grasp of economics is very depressing.

Stop reading the Daily Mail and watching Channel 4 and 5 documentaries that demonise the out of work and actually think for one second why your employer should pay you the wage they do if they could get an unemployed person to do the same job for 70 pounds a week

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm not against helping people who need it but those that are just fucking lazy can't be arsed do my heid in!!

Xxx happy new year !! Xxx

Why punish ALL unemployed people, the vast majority are desperately seeking work, because a few are professional claimers? Investigate the suspected dossers and get them into a work scheme, by all means. But when I was out of work for over 18 months and could not find work, the main reason being I was too qualified to do labouring etc. I was willing to do it, employees wouldn't entertain the idea. After six months JSA I stopped receiving anything. Zilch. The bastards were prepared to put me into debt and make me lose my house, but were happy to keep the feckless tossers in money. You cannot have a blanket universal system, each case needs to be reviewed and actioned properly. They have the staff to do it, they just don't have either the brains or inclination to do it. The public would be happier to see the truly deserving get their money and the idle get short shrift.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Unemployment cost for the UK is around £4.9 billion.

That is out of a total benefit bill of around £160 billion.

I can see how many people, think that this is what is bankrupting, this once great nation.

Compared to Tesco profits that have dropped to around the same amount,it really is time to consider the real facts and not those of a desperate government, that has lost all credibility in running the country.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I was made redundant in September from a fairly senior job in a bank, I left school in 1978 and have never been unemployed.

With 25 years in banking, I have qualifications coming out of my ears, but unless I want to do the same thing (and the banks are shedding staff wholesale) they count for very little

I can't get a job at the mo. I know it's a bad time of year, but take It from me, it's fucking soul destroying.

I guess what I'm saying is, I understand there are some spongers, but Im not the only one in my position.

As a single guy, supporting myself and my son at uni, I've seen my income drop from £60k a year to £70 per week.

I know I will get a job, because it's not in my nature to sit on my arse and, to boot, I'm bored shitless, but at 50, it ain't going to be easy.

Working for benefits....rather just work

Im in the same boat, and have been for sometime now, some of these people just dont get it

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm not against helping people who need it but those that are just fucking lazy can't be arsed do my heid in!!

Xxx happy new year !! Xxx

At the end of the day there are rules in place that if you don't fulfill your obligations as a Jobseeker you can be prosecuted in a court of law....That's why you sign a declaration. Maybe if the powers that be did their Jobs properly the abusers could be eradicated.

Also the biggest abusers of the system at this moment in time are the Government with their sanctions. I was actually Sanctioned when on benefits for daring to Travel to London for a Job and the reason I was given was that the Government didn't want the roads busy during the Olympics!!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

JSA claimants are in 4 categories. Stage 1,2,3 and 4, they go up a stage the longer they're on it. Fortnightly signing turns to weekly, every time they sign they have to show what they've been doing to look for work. If they find a job to apply for they must apply for it and checks will be done, sanctions (claims stopped) if the claimants don't apply for jobs. They'll stop a claim for anything, for example, late to sign or missing an appointment with notifying them first. If a claimant would get a job if they had a certain skill then courses will be arranged. They are doing what they can.

When ESA first came in to replace incapacity benefit there was a massive reform, everyone on sickness benefit was called in for Personal capability assessments to see if they really needed to be on sickness benefit, to see if there was some type of work that they could do despite their illness or disability. People have to keep providing sick notes to claim sickness benefit and every so often they will be called for PCA's to constantly assess if they need to be on it. Obviously there are exceptions with people that are terminally ill, they have DS1500 forms and don't have to go through any if the bollox.

Reforms have made to lone parents claiming income support, the age of the child you can claim for has reduced from 16 to 4 years old, after that you go on JSA to look for work.

Things are in place to try and make the system better. Do I think people should be made to do shitty jobs in order to receive their benefits? No I don't because there are people already looking for jobs any jobs, nobody wants to live a life on benefits, people only see the sensationalist stories which are few and far between, yes you see people on benefits with sky tv and massive plasma tvs and gadgets but it's all on credit they'll use companies that offer products that you buy and pay weekly. The people that struggle when they're on benefits are the people that have lost their jobs and are used to a wage and then have to try and survive on a quarter or less money that they're used to.

I'm glad that this country has a benefits system to help people when they fall on hard times, it's what makes it Great Britain, benefits tourism is a much bigger problem, people coming here deliberately to take advantage.

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