FabSwingers.com forum: Conscentration camps

By *iamondsmiles. OP Woman
over a year ago

little house on the praire

Has anyone ever been to one and how did it make you feel. Im going to be going to one for the first time when i go away and i really want to go for interest but i also think i will become very emotional

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I've visited a couple when living in Germany, it really is emotionally draining visiting them. My daughter is an adult now and still remembers everything about her visits to them as a child.

I'm not ashamed to say I cried, but then again I wasn't alone in that.

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By *etillanteWoman
over a year ago

Haven't been to concentration camp, but went to a villare in Frnce called Oradour sur Glane. The village has been left as it was the day it was ransacked during the WWII. Almost all the villagers were massacred, very few escaped. It is one of the most heart wrenching sites I have ever seen.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Kates dad was Polish and was a prisoner of war in an Italian camp. He escaped with 4 others and got to the UK, just as the war was ending.

Some of his mates and family ended up in the camps in Poland.

The stories he told me got me so emotional that I will never go to Belsen or Auswitz, just to "go see". Kate has been, she's braver than me in that sense.

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By *yber pimpMan
over a year ago

durham area

another great british invention

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By (user no longer on site)
Forum Mod
over a year ago

I have never been but its something I would like to do

I have seen the Holocaust exhibition at the Imperial war museum a few years ago and that was heartbreaking enough

I had to go in alone children under 14 wer'nt allowed

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By *iamondsmiles. OP Woman
over a year ago

little house on the praire

Where actually going to fort breendonk in belguim which is small in comparison to some. Ive had the opportunity to go before but havent really wanted to but Jay just knows so much war history and where going to visit a few places to do with the war so i thought it would be apt for me to go this time. But i think i will be like laine and petilant

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By *etillanteWoman
over a year ago

Just had a quick look on the web about this place. Sounds horrific, the say it was one of the worst concentration camps in Europe!

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By *iamondsmiles. OP Woman
over a year ago

little house on the praire

"Just had a quick look on the web about this place. Sounds horrific, the say it was one of the worst concentration camps in Europe!"

My sister lives about half an hour from there thats why we are going to that one.

Jays also half jewish but he has been to camps before

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

went to 1 in germany years ago Belson i think it was called has to be the saddest place ive ever been to it was middle of winter covered in snow and just so very very quiet came away with tears in my eyes feeling very very humble

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By *etillanteWoman
over a year ago

Just a note, went to Gent the week before last, beautiful city and well worth a visit

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By *iamondsmiles. OP Woman
over a year ago

little house on the praire

"Just a note, went to Gent the week before last, beautiful city and well worth a visit

Thats where my sister lives lol, it is lovely city

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By *etillanteWoman
over a year ago

Oops talk about teach your mother to suck eggs lol

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By *iamondsmiles. OP Woman
over a year ago

little house on the praire

"Oops talk about teach your mother to suck eggs lol"

lol, theyve nearly finished all the work they have been doing in the town. If you stand on the bridge you can see all three church towers. Going for a week on the 1st so should be nice, plus we know all the nice eating places, well she does lol

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By *etillanteWoman
over a year ago

Well have changed holiday plans for November and are now going to spend a couple of nights their cos want to explore the city more. PLus I found my kinda shop, Gin and Beer House lol

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By *iamondsmiles. OP Woman
over a year ago

little house on the praire

"Well have changed holiday plans for November and are now going to spend a couple of nights their cos want to explore the city more. PLus I found my kinda shop, Gin and Beer House lol"

Thing is when i tend to go, its used as a base and we go off out to other places and only probely spend one day going round gent. Its so close to antwerp and brugges, antwerp is my favourite city although i know its not to everyones liking. If you want before you go i will give you some recommendations of places to go

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By *etillanteWoman
over a year ago

Been to Brugges loads of time, cos get the ferry across from Hull for a nice little weekend break. Thanks Diamond I'll take you up on that if I may.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Kates dad was Polish and was a prisoner of war in an Italian camp. He escaped with 4 others and got to the UK, just as the war was ending.

Some of his mates and family ended up in the camps in Poland.

The stories he told me got me so emotional that I will never go to Belsen or Auswitz, just to "go see". Kate has been, she's braver than me in that sense.

We know exactly what you mean.

We can't understand why people go to horrific places, with terrible memories, when they know it will upset them either.

It's like when we came back from New York some years ago.

People asked if we'd been to Ground Zero.......er no,we went to enjoy ourselves not to get upset by reminders of mans inhumanity to man.

XXXX

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I am not keen to go to visit places like that, Ground Zero is another one that springs to mind, as I believe there will be many unrest souls about, and would feel very uncomfortable being there.

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By *iamondsmiles. OP Woman
over a year ago

little house on the praire

"Been to Brugges loads of time, cos get the ferry across from Hull for a nice little weekend break. Thanks Diamond I'll take you up on that if I may."

When i go i will get my sister to sort out a list of best restaurants and places to see and pass it on to you

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By *etillanteWoman
over a year ago

Thanks and enjoy your stay, sure you will

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By *ngieandMrManCouple
over a year ago

hereford

One reason to go to these places is to fully take onboard what happened. A few years ago I did the WW1 battle fields/cemetery’s in France as a parent-helper on a sixth form school trip.

You really need to go see it to ‘feel’ it, I found it totally overwhelming, when you stand in one of these cemetery’s that is a quarter the size of a football pitch and contains twice as many bodies as the population of the town I live in, it really starts to knock the message home.

Its ‘ok’ seeing such things on TV, or reading about it, being there, seeing it, feeling it is quite different. Then read some of the names and ages of the ‘boys’ under the head stones, yes boys!!!

‘Yes’ its totally horrific but I can’t help thinking that wars would become obsolete if everyone was to experience the aftermath. The very fact that humans could do such things to other humans makes me feel totally ashamed to be of the same species.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We erect war memorials to remember the dead and we keep places like Belsen open to remember the murdered.

I'm surprised that Germany have kept these camps in existence as it must be an endless source of shame for that country, even though most of those that participated in the holocaust have long gone themselves.

Diamond, my advice, visit the place with a huge dollop of humility for those that died there and a strong sense of gratitude that our grandfathers managed to keep the Third Reich from our shores.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We know exactly what you mean.

We can't understand why people go to horrific places, with terrible memories, when they know it will upset them either.

It's like when we came back from New York some years ago.

People asked if we'd been to Ground Zero.......er no,we went to enjoy ourselves not to get upset by reminders of mans inhumanity to man.

XXXX"

I go to New York every year as I have friends living there. One of my friends is a cop with NYPD and was on duty on the morning of 9/11. Every year I visit Ground Zero and remember the tragic events. In the visitor centre, there is a room where the wall is chock a block with photographs of all those who died on that day - its a sobering site and brings it home to me how lucky I am.

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By *iamondsmiles. OP Woman
over a year ago

little house on the praire

"We erect war memorials to remember the dead and we keep places like Belsen open to remember the murdered.

Diamond, my advice, visit the place with a huge dollop of humility for those that died there and a strong sense of gratitude that our grandfathers managed to keep the Third Reich from our shores."

That is the reason i feel its time i went. I have always been ignorant as far as the wars have been concerned until i met jay. I have learnt so much from him. Hes always going of on battle field tours and has literally 100's and 100's of books, he studies everthing in minor detail. Funny thing is the only battlefield hes not been to is waterloo and its the onl one ive been to so we are also going there

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"We erect war memorials to remember the dead and we keep places like Belsen open to remember the murdered.

Diamond, my advice, visit the place with a huge dollop of humility for those that died there and a strong sense of gratitude that our grandfathers managed to keep the Third Reich from our shores."

Germany keep these places open as its a part of their history.

In fact Colditz is open as a hotel isnt it.

I dont think Germans are ashamed, not all Germans are Nazis.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes.

I've been to Auschwitz and Majdanek - both in Poland.

How did it make me feel ?

I don't think I could ever, ever begin to explain what it felt like.

But I'll tell you something - walking around those places on a bleak, cold frosty November morning, it makes you appreciate what you have and what others have given to make life the way it is for us

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

I was going to say I have been to ground zero and go everytime I go back to new york... I lost 6 good friends on that day and it is like me pay respects to some damn good people...

I have been to Belson, and it is one of the most eerie places I have ever been to... because of what you know happened there, it is a part of history....

I felt the same when I got the chance to go the Robben Island years ago... some places you go to just leave you speechless because of what you know, or who you know was there....

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By *he BananamanMan
over a year ago

WORCESTERSHIRE

"Just a note, went to Gent the week before last, beautiful city and well worth a visit

lovely place ghent,love the ancient big catherdals in this country anyway.

have worked around northern france/belgium border and its eerie to see the names of towns/cities that you know from history books concerning wars.

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By *iamondsmiles. OP Woman
over a year ago

little house on the praire

One thing ive never managed to do yet is time it right for when the fields are full of poppies

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

A couple of years back I went to visit some pals who'd moved to north east France. One afternoon we went off to the local equivalent of B&Q for some pool lining.

At one point the car went round a bend in the road and there, as far as the eye could see, were countless white crosses standing in mute witness to man's blind indifference to his fellow man (as they song says).

All the more powerful because it had been so unexpected.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Well have changed holiday plans for November and are now going to spend a couple of nights their cos want to explore the city more. PLus I found my kinda shop, Gin and Beer House lol

If you can make it the back end of November It would be worth nipping to Koln around a 3hr drive from Gent (or any major German city) for the Xmas market it really is worth going just for the walk around.

I have not been to a Concentration Camp but I used visit a factory in Dachau (one of the closest factories to the camp) and there was a funny feeling about the place undescribable really.

In Germany it's also quite strange how some camps have been turned into normal office blocks with just a plaque on the wall.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's quite amazing to look around and see just how well these places were built and the planning that went into them, the thickness of the concrete, the commercial crematorium ovens - make no mistake about it everything was meticulously planned and executed by the Nazis - quite a feat of engineering, given the time that they had to set these camps up.

If anyone is interested and so inclined, they really should try to visit one of the camps, Auschwitz probably being the most accesible, Majdanek in Lublin being the next. Those 2 camps are still relatively complete and not just the plaque on the wall.

Aushwitz 1 has a small cinema in which archive films are shown and the rest of the camp (a former Polish Army barracks) is the museum which includes the infamous blok 11 and the sign over the entrance 'Arbeit Macht Frei'

Birkenau (Auschwitz 2) just over the road is the end of the railway track, synonymous with Aushwitz and the remains of the crematoriums which the Nazis attempted, but failed, to destroy before the camp was liberated. Also the prisoners billots, latrines cook houses are still there as is the block where Dr Mengle performed human experiments and killed new born babies with injections of phenol.

A truly horrific place

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I went to Auschwitz some time ago. I sometimes think about the piles of shoes and glasses they have there, each one represents a person with a life and hopes that came to a pointless end. I think its right that those places stay with you then you leave them, although I'm not Jewish and didn't know anyone who perished, they were human as am I.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"We erect war memorials to remember the dead and we keep places like Belsen open to remember the murdered.

Diamond, my advice, visit the place with a huge dollop of humility for those that died there and a strong sense of gratitude that our grandfathers managed to keep the Third Reich from our shores.

Germany keep these places open as its a part of their history.

In fact Colditz is open as a hotel isnt it.

I dont think Germans are ashamed, not all Germans are Nazis."

With respect, I was not inferring all Germans are Nazis, far from it because if they were they'd revel in their past - not feel ashamed of it. I was talking about a sense of disconnection from a part of their past that they'd rather hadn't happened. I know this from German people that I know and have spoke to about it. Obviously they do not speak for the entire German nation but I specifically asked them how most Germans feel about the holocaust, and ashamed was one of the feelings that they mentioned. They also said that they felt disgusted that some people, usually non-German anti-semitics, claim that the holocaust never actually happened and that it's nothing but propoganda made up by outside influences.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

On the wall in one of the billots in Auschwitz Birkenau, amongst other things that people had written was the following:

"Wir schämen uns auf Deutsch sein ....."

I think the majority of German people probably are ashamed at the actions of a very small proportion of their predecessors

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By *umourCouple
over a year ago

Rushden

"We erect war memorials to remember the dead and we keep places like Belsen open to remember the murdered.

Diamond, my advice, visit the place with a huge dollop of humility for those that died there and a strong sense of gratitude that our grandfathers managed to keep the Third Reich from our shores."

Here here, Wishy...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Good point, and I dont think that any German claiming to be "human" can be proud of any part of the Holocaust, other than perhaps those who risked their own lives to help others - my grandfather was awarded the highest national award for bravery incidentally, at a personal level (as it is a member of my family) I am proud to say. My late father was only 15 when the war ended so perhaps that is why I personally cannot share a sense of shame of German history.

So-called "ethnic cleansing" is a horrendous and inhumane act at any time - and it should not have happened and it should never happen again - unfortunately it still does in various parts all over the world.

Speaking for my family and friends I would say that only the older generation perhaps tend to share a sense of shame these days (more so than my generation), simply as they were there when it happened?

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By *ushroom7Man
over a year ago

Bradford

My limited understanding fo history is that the Germans ( my grandad was German ) wanted to remove the Jews peacefully to a homeland of their own.

The main and very strong objection to this was by Britain, hence eventually the search for a different solution. I could be wrong.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Both my brothers went and said it was a strange feeling.

So quiet and no birds singing etc.

Im not sure if it still applies but as they were in the army , they all had to go while in germany ????

Very sad places

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

My limited understanding fo history is that the Germans ( my grandad was German ) wanted to remove the Jews peacefully to a homeland of their own.

The main and very strong objection to this was by Britain, hence eventually the search for a different solution. I could be wrong."

Very wrong indeed.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I suggest you reasearch The Balfour Declaration of 1917 whereby Britain encouraged the setting up of a Jewish Homeland in Palestine, and spent a considerable amount of money is seeking it's establishment.

After Hitler's determination to be rid of powerful Jews from German society became evident, many countries closed their borders to fleeing Jews, including Britain. It was felt by Britain that Palestine was the preferred option for repatriation of European Jews, and that having spent so much time, effort and money pushing for the creation of a Jewish homeland it would be foolhardy to admit them to the UK.

From a diary entry by Joseph Goebbels of December 12, 1941, he writes,

"Hitler prophesised to the Jews that if they again brought about a world war, they would live to see their annihilation in it. That wasn't just a catch-word. The world war is here, and the annihilation of the Jews must be the necessary consequence."

With Germany's invasion of Russia in June 1941 special death squads (the Einsatzgruppen) followed the advancing German Army into Russia and began shooting Russian Jews where they were found. Roughly 500,000 Jews were killed in this way between July and December 1941. At that time, the sheer number of Jews to be killed, and the effect on the police of shooting women and children, caused other methods to be investigated, culminating in the establishment of death camps such as Auschwitz, Treblinka and Sobibor in early 1942, to which Jews were transported and gassed with carbon monoxide or prussic acid (Zyklon B).

Heydrich held the Wansee Conference in January 1942, where the administrative planning for the Final Solution was finalised.

The Final Solution could not have gone ahead withour Hitler's personal order but no such written Hitler order has ever been found.

Britain's only culpability in the holocaust was to refuse to accept Jewish refugees from Germany. We were certainly not the cause of the holocaust.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"We erect war memorials to remember the dead and we keep places like Belsen open to remember the murdered.

Diamond, my advice, visit the place with a huge dollop of humility for those that died there and a strong sense of gratitude that our grandfathers managed to keep the Third Reich from our shores."

My sister and brother-in-law visited Belsen and said the same thing: she felt humbled. It's the scale of the atrocities that gets you I'm told.

I love history but I think I'd find the visit overwhelming.

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