FabSwingers.com forum: Is 'hero' an over used word?

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

I hear this word everyday to describe our soldiers actions in afghan and Iraq,well today the Americans are withdrawing their combat troops from Iraq..After 7yrs,they've lost near 4,000 soldiers,almost 1million innocent Iraqs dead,nationed electricity,poor water supply,health,education,60% unemployment rate,excuted their former president live on tv and the list goes on...Well the soldiers will receive a heroes welcome back in the states but surely are this heroes or sacrificial lambs our govts are using to wedge unnecessary wars?

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

It can be yes. BUT I know they are doing their job, but some of the stories I have read about the soldiers out there, I would call them heroes yes.

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By *ollie_JCouple
over a year ago

London

Is that a question or a statement?

You may disagree as to their job role but how they approach it individually is how the word hero is used.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Is that a question or a statement?

You may disagree as to their job role but how they approach it individually is how the word hero is used."

A question of course,please describe a heroin simple words!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

A hero is someone who does something because they should, despite their fears.

A soldier is someone doing a job and getting paid to do it.

The two are, most definitely, not the same thing, although in rare cases a soldier, like anyone else, may become a hero.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I hear this word everyday to describe our soldiers actions in afghan and Iraq,well today the Americans are withdrawing their combat troops from Iraq..After 7yrs,they've lost near 4,000 soldiers,almost 1million innocent Iraqs dead,nationed electricity,poor water supply,health,education,60% unemployment rate,excuted their former president live on tv and the list goes on...Well the soldiers will receive a heroes welcome back in the states but surely are this heroes or sacrificial lambs our govts are using to wedge unnecessary wars?"

Its a word no more no less and it means different things to different people.

As for sacrificial lambs? I really don't see how you can connect both things. After all when you join the armed forces you know what your getting into.

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

as an american myself you will hear a lot of people say what I am about to say...

I will support the soldiers 100% in whatever they do, and god speed to them, but is doesn't mean that I have to support the people who send them into battle....

are they heroes... sure, the same way that doctors and nurses are heroes, policemen are heroes, firemen are heroes, the same way that teachers are heroes...

if they inspire others to be better people then that for me makes them a hero

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"A hero is someone who does something because they should, despite their fears.

A soldier is someone doing a job and getting paid to do it.

The two are, most definitely, not the same thing, although in rare cases a soldier, like anyone else, may become a hero."

This is the most succinct and clear distinction we are likely to get anywhere and it doesn't need changing or adding to. Anything else we say is personal opinion but this is for me a perfect working definition.

The word is now commonly mingled with emotion used jingoistically by governments and misused in general.

Because someone is injured in battle does not make them a hero.

I also dislike the term being used for children who undergo many operations. They have no choice.

Being heroic has a specific meaning.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

as an american myself you will hear a lot of people say what I am about to say...

I will support the soldiers 100% in whatever they do, and god speed to them, but is doesn't mean that I have to support the people who send them into battle....

are they heroes... sure, the same way that doctors and nurses are heroes, policemen are heroes, firemen are heroes, the same way that teachers are heroes...

if they inspire others to be better people then that for me makes them a hero"

I don't disrespect your thinking Fabio but i do think that this is sentimentality and that , in the end, cheapens true heroism.

Being inspirational can be done by anyone from any walk of life it does NOT make people heroes.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

as an american myself you will hear a lot of people say what I am about to say...

I will support the soldiers 100% in whatever they do, and god speed to them, but is doesn't mean that I have to support the people who send them into battle....

are they heroes... sure, the same way that doctors and nurses are heroes, policemen are heroes, firemen are heroes, the same way that teachers are heroes...

if they inspire others to be better people then that for me makes them a hero"

Very well according to your description americans have totally failed the iraqs then cos they've only inspire them to hate one another an divided the country into religious groups,5 months after the election they ont even have a functioning governement!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Don't you mean Vietnam?

Don't you mean Korea?

You can see where this is heading.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Paron me dddd does seem to work on my keyboard this morning!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Paron me dddd does seem to work on my keyboard this morning!"

on't you mean keyboar ?

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Paron me dddd does seem to work on my keyboard this morning!

on't you mean keyboar ?"

lol yes...i agree with your previous statement by the way.

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By *ollie_JCouple
over a year ago

London

I am still struggling to understand the way the OP is sending this discussion based on the simple question in the title of the thread

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I am still struggling to understand the way the OP is sending this discussion based on the simple question in the title of the thread"

Am sorry i dont know whatelse you what me to say everyone else seem to grasp my pointwell!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I am still struggling to understand the way the OP is sending this discussion based on the simple question in the title of the thread"

Unfortunately for any OP once they post the rudder is in your hands. O.P's can only attempt to steer. x

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I am still struggling to understand the way the OP is sending this discussion based on the simple question in the title of the thread

Am sorry i dont know whatelse you what me to say everyone else seem to grasp my pointwell!"

*want

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By (user no longer on site)
Forum Mod
over a year ago

I think the word hero is subjective to the individual,and nothing to do with occupation

Im not sure if this thread is about heroes though,does the OP just want to use it as a political sounding board or find out what we really think a hero means to us personally

I stay away from politics on here,it causes fisticuffs normally

Ta ta x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Are nurses heroes ? working on the 'frontline in Accident and Emergency, getting hit, spat at, verbally abused, some murdered after leaving their shifts. Just a thought

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By * 4 fun bCouple
over a year ago

b,ham

[Removed by poster at 19/08/10 11:04:56]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Are nurses heroes ? working on the 'frontline in Accident and Emergency, getting hit, spat at, verbally abused, some murdered after leaving their shifts. Just a thought

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By *ixson-BallsMan
over a year ago

Blackpool

whats a hero??...to me ..its someone who saves peoples lives by putting their own life in danger with regards to their own safety...nobody knows they're gonna do heroic stuff,its instinctive and spur of the moment stuff...

a person rushing in to a burning house to save children is heroic, whilst soldiers risking life to save collegues or members of the public from certain harm deserve the same accolade....

being a hero is a title we bestow on individuals, for doing something the majority of us might not do

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Are nurses heroes ? working on the 'frontline in Accident and Emergency, getting hit, spat at, verbally abused, some murdered after leaving their shifts. Just a thought

Oh yes they are hero but we dont see that mentionedddd anywhere

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Are nurses heroes ? working on the 'frontline in Accident and Emergency, getting hit, spat at, verbally abused, some murdered after leaving their shifts. Just a thought

No "

Well that's one all, so far, another forumite agrees, lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I would like to ask a question before I answer the OP, a question to everyone with an opinion about this.

Please answer honestly

If you were asked to go and work on the frontline alongside our troops in some capacity - would you go ? would you put your life on the line with them ?

Simple yes or no, no family commitments, no change my library book next week just a simple answer of willingess not availability

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I would like to ask a question before I answer the OP, a question to everyone with an opinion about this.

Please answer honestly

If you were asked to go and work on the frontline alongside our troops in some capacity - would you go ? would you put your life on the line with them ?

Simple yes or no, no family commitments, no change my library book next week just a simple answer of willingess not availability"

If I was being paid a salary Jed. Yes.

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By *ixson-BallsMan
over a year ago

Blackpool

"Are nurses heroes ? working on the 'frontline in Accident and Emergency, getting hit, spat at, verbally abused, some murdered after leaving their shifts. Just a thought

No "

seconded!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Please don't say. Well if you wont that's why soldiers are heroes and you're not. There are so many arguments to counteract that one.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I would like to ask a question before I answer the OP, a question to everyone with an opinion about this.

Please answer honestly

If you were asked to go and work on the frontline alongside our troops in some capacity - would you go ? would you put your life on the line with them ?

Simple yes or no, no family commitments, no change my library book next week just a simple answer of willingess not availability"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Are nurses heroes ? working on the 'frontline in Accident and Emergency, getting hit, spat at, verbally abused, some murdered after leaving their shifts. Just a thought

No.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Are nurses heroes ? working on the 'frontline in Accident and Emergency, getting hit, spat at, verbally abused, some murdered after leaving their shifts. Just a thought

Oh yes they are hero but we dont see that mentionedddd anywhere"

No, thats an example of what the OP Luis talking about - the overuse of the word hero.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I would like to ask a question before I answer the OP, a question to everyone with an opinion about this.

Please answer honestly

If you were asked to go and work on the frontline alongside our troops in some capacity - would you go ? would you put your life on the line with them ?

Simple yes or no, no family commitments, no change my library book next week just a simple answer of willingess not availability

No"

What if the financial rewards were stonkingly high ?

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I would like to ask a question before I answer the OP, a question to everyone with an opinion about this.

Please answer honestly

If you were asked to go and work on the frontline alongside our troops in some capacity - would you go ? would you put your life on the line with them ?

Simple yes or no, no family commitments, no change my library book next week just a simple answer of willingess not availability"

Am not going to be sentimental one bit but considering the history of this afghan war probably not its caused unnecessary deaths to both parties

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think we all know that the financial rewards for British Troops has never been high and at times requires help from the Benefits agency to supplement the average or below average earnings.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I think we all know that the financial rewards for British Troops has never been high and at times requires help from the Benefits agency to supplement the average or below average earnings.

I don't get your point Jed.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I was trying to ask who would be willing to do exactly what our troops are doing, same conditions, same pay, same risks ?

No hidden agenda just that I would really like to know what kind of % would be willing to do that from the people who have any opinion at all about the OP's subject, let's be honest like everything it is not something that everyone would be willing to do.

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By *ollie_JCouple
over a year ago

London

Quite a few of us ex (and still probably serving) greens, dark and light blues on the forums

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

yes I think it is safe to say that 99% of ex forces and current forces who have never seen action would go there, a slightly smaller % of those who have experienced action would be willing to endure it again.

I should have said the question is more for those who have never served, I thought this was going to be a simple question but it's turning out to be much harder than I thought - my bad.

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

No for me Jed

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

Just asked the OH and he says no for him too.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"yes I think it is safe to say that 99% of ex forces and current forces who have never seen action would go there, a slightly smaller % of those who have experienced action would be willing to endure it again.

I should have said the question is more for those who have never served, I thought this was going to be a simple question but it's turning out to be much harder than I thought - my bad."

I think its a good contribution to the topic

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I was trying to ask who would be willing to do exactly what our troops are doing, same conditions, same pay, same risks ?

That's where confusion arose. You originally asked if we'd go in 'some capacity' Now you say to do 'exactly the same' ..... different concept altogether.

So..... my answer now is. If I was fit to serve. YES.

As im a comfortable , complacent lard arse. NO.

My answer still doesn't change my stance. Not all soldiers are heroes.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

yes

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By *andcCouple
over a year ago

London and Cheshire

"Are nurses heroes ? working on the 'frontline in Accident and Emergency, getting hit, spat at, verbally abused, some murdered after leaving their shifts. Just a thought

NO! they are just doing their job and getting paid for it, being spat at, verbally abused or even murdered doesn't make you a hero, just a victim of crime like everyone else.

Being a hero is where you do a selfless noble act with no regard to the consequences to yourself. Remember RAF pilots don't usually get the VC, because they need to land the plane not just for others but themselves too!

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By *andcCouple
over a year ago

London and Cheshire

"I was trying to ask who would be willing to do exactly what our troops are doing, same conditions, same pay, same risks ?

Most would if they had gone through military training/indoctrination. Most if not all military heros are not doing it for Queen and country but for their mates who have fought next to them and have a bond the rest of us will never understand!

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I was trying to ask who would be willing to do exactly what our troops are doing, same conditions, same pay, same risks ?

I thought being a hero has something to do with saving life..is that what the nurses and doctors do round the clock?

Well how about soldiers from very poor commonwealth countries serving in british forces are they heroes too or just doing a job?

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

Hi all, there are now 2 separate questions here. One deals with rewards and the question would I do that for so little and the nature of those who join up.

The second is about the nature of gallantry and are all service personnel heroes?

The second is easy to answer, there are few heroes in the armed forces in exactly the same way as there are few heroes in civilian life, and by labelling all as heroes just because they wear the uniform and stand before the colours diminish acts of true heroism. Ask any trained man, and they will tell you that in combat training and for most anger and fear take over. You do what your trained to do and puke when its over. Also if they are being truly honest with you they will tell you that basic training makes you punchy and that every trained man lusts for active service right up to the point where they get their wish.

As for the question of why people join up and how little they get paid. Firstly low pay is nothing new; we have a history of treating our armed forces as scum. When I was in our pay was set at a level so that a married man with 2 children would be just above the welfare threshold and stoppages (food and accom for singles and married quarters costs for married) were set to claw back every penny that could be wringed out of us. Further if you go back in history this has always been the case, in fact we have a record of starving our rank and file to death rather than pay them.

When it comes to the reasons for joining up, there are many, but they seem to fall into 3 main groups. Those looking for adventure, those who through lack of other opportunities see the armed forces as a way out of their current situation and those from broken, violent childhoods who are looking for stability and a family to belong to.

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By *ushroom7Man
over a year ago

Bradford

"I would like to ask a question before I answer the OP, a question to everyone with an opinion about this.

Please answer honestly

If you were asked to go and work on the frontline alongside our troops in some capacity - would you go ? would you put your life on the line with them ?

Simple yes or no, no family commitments, no change my library book next week just a simple answer of willingess not availability"

Simple answer - No.

Not at the current time. Not in Afghanistan. How is that defending our country?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"A hero is someone who does something because they should, despite their fears.

A soldier is someone doing a job and getting paid to do it.

The two are, most definitely, not the same thing, although in rare cases a soldier, like anyone else, may become a hero.

The word is now commonly mingled with emotion used jingoistically by governments and misused in general.

Because someone is injured in battle does not make them a hero.

I also dislike the term being used for children who undergo many operations. They have no choice.

Being heroic has a specific meaning."
As you say personal opinion and all of your comment is personal opinion !

Not just the patrs you consider to be.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"A hero is someone who does something because they should, despite their fears.

A soldier is someone doing a job and getting paid to do it.

The two are, most definitely, not the same thing, although in rare cases a soldier, like anyone else, may become a hero.

The word is now commonly mingled with emotion used jingoistically by governments and misused in general.

Because someone is injured in battle does not make them a hero.

I also dislike the term being used for children who undergo many operations. They have no choice.

Being heroic has a specific meaning.As you say personal opinion and all of your comment is personal opinion !

Not just the patrs you consider to be."

What parts do I consider NOT to be ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"A hero is someone who does something because they should, despite their fears.

A soldier is someone doing a job and getting paid to do it.

The two are, most definitely, not the same thing, although in rare cases a soldier, like anyone else, may become a hero.

The word is now commonly mingled with emotion used jingoistically by governments and misused in general.

Because someone is injured in battle does not make them a hero.

I also dislike the term being used for children who undergo many operations. They have no choice.

Being heroic has a specific meaning."

Fully agree,that sums it up for us too.

XXXX

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By *uss PussWoman
over a year ago

east cheshire

Will this thread effect the "Help for Hero's" charity?

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By *emima_puddlefuckCouple
over a year ago

hexham

"A hero is someone who does something because they should, despite their fears.

A soldier is someone doing a job and getting paid to do it.

The two are, most definitely, not the same thing, although in rare cases a soldier, like anyone else, may become a hero.

The word is now commonly mingled with emotion used jingoistically by governments and misused in general.

Because someone is injured in battle does not make them a hero.

I also dislike the term being used for children who undergo many operations. They have no choice.

Being heroic has a specific meaning.

Fully agree,that sums it up for us too.

XXXX"

My view too,the local paper is always full of some brave 3 yr old.Heroism and bravery are about the choices people make.

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By *andcCouple
over a year ago

London and Cheshire

I thought being a hero has something to do with saving life..is that what the nurses and doctors do round the clock?

Well how about soldiers from very poor commonwealth countries serving in british forces are they heroes too or just doing a job?"

Part of a doctors/nurses job is to save life, but a soldiers job is not to save life, usually the opposite and kill the enemy. What makes a soldier/doctor/anybody a hero is to save the life of others, while endangering their own lives. So a doctor treating a patient in the local hospital is doing their job while if he was to, say, enter a radioactive building to save a trapped person then that is heroic.

It doesn't matter where the soldier come from, fighting a enemy doesn't make you a hero, but running across open ground in front of the enemy to save a fallen soldier would be heroic. A fireman who enters a burning building to save a life is not a hero, he is doing his job, he has both the skills and equipment to carry out that task, but if he/she enters a water filled room, without equipment to save someones life, knowing that they have a high chance of dying themselves is heroic.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Will this thread effect the "Help for Hero's" charity?"

LoL Hope not ..... xx

Put on bucket Help for heroes n fuck the defintion.

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By *yber pimpMan
over a year ago

durham area

"I was trying to ask who would be willing to do exactly what our troops are doing, same conditions, same pay, same risks ?

hero like the word celebrity is being undermined everytime it is used in the context of the OP.

im a former soldier so yes to your other question

the voice of reason in here is wor GRANNY listen and digest

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 19/08/10 15:48:53]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I would like to ask a question before I answer the OP, a question to everyone with an opinion about this.

Please answer honestly

If you were asked to go and work on the frontline alongside our troops in some capacity - would you go ? would you put your life on the line with them ?

Simple yes or no, no family commitments, no change my library book next week just a simple answer of willingess not availability"

No, I wouldn't, but does that make members of the armed forces 'heroes' unconditionally?

There are many jobs I wouldn't do-prostitution, trapeze artist, coal miner, sewer worker, but we wouldn't necessarily describe the people who do as heroes

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Good point well made!

Had a family member out there and got friends out ther now. It is their job and they chose it,we have a volunteer Army.

There are heroic acts of self sacrifice happening every day out there,but they are doing it for their unit and pals not for us.

We got involved in things that are none of our business,let me tell you the end is a long long way away.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Jed- I wouldnt go because I dont agree with the mission.

It has been horribly flawed and cost countless lives (and money) on all sides.

A terrible terrible mistake. Who do we pre-empt a conflict with next? North Korea? Iran?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

tut tut, I have not said that they are heroes or even any more heroic than anyone else, I have simply asked a question please do not presume to know what I am thinking,

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Jed- just so I am clear with everyone I should add I think what the Forces do is incredible and under very trying circumstances and sometimes with inadequate kit.

And I do regard some actions as heroism.

It would be more fitting were it to serve a better purpose than deposing despots that previous US leaders' Dads didnt deal with.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

To all the men and women that fight for our country they are all heroes simples. So are all the firemen doctors nurses and paramedics who save lives.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

My local roadsweeper is a hero. He risks being knocked over by lorries every day. Just to keep my streets clean xx WTG xx

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I would like to ask a question before I answer the OP, a question to everyone with an opinion about this.

Please answer honestly

If you were asked to go and work on the frontline alongside our troops in some capacity - would you go ? would you put your life on the line with them ?

Simple yes or no, no family commitments, no change my library book next week just a simple answer of willingess not availability"

no not for oil

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Will this thread effect the "Help for Hero's" charity?"

affect my dear, tch tch grammar!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think some of the funds raised from beach party should go to help the heroes. And I have to say what a fabulous job Joanna Lumley is doing with the gurkas now they are deffinately heroes.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"To all the men and women that fight for our country they are all heroes simples. So are all the firemen doctors nurses and paramedics who save lives."

.So is a soldier who receives the VC a superhero?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"tut tut, I have not said that they are heroes or even any more heroic than anyone else, I have simply asked a question please do not presume to know what I am thinking,"

Not sure if this was directed at me, but I didn't 'presume' anything, I asked you a question regarding your post for clarity.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

OK I think it's safe to assume that many people agree that they do a job a lot of us would not want to do.

Perhaps they fight for oil, certainly oil is important, your children can't go to school without it to heat the premises, factories would clos, lorries delivering goods to shops would cease to operate, Eddie Stobbart would have to survive on the sales of his Corgi truck collection, electricity would be much more scarce and all if one dictator was allowed to run the whole of the middle east oil production.

That though is another subject.

Soldiers take an oath to protect the people of this country without question and it is for the politicians to answer the whys and whens regarding where they serve not the soldiers, airforce or navy.

My personal view is that they are not automatically heroes because of this, some become heroes just like many people in other walks of life.

A nurse or fireman is not a hero either but is likely to be put in a position where they can become one, just like the armed forces can.

But it is not the armed forces who call themselves heroes, in my experience they shy away from the word even when it is deserved.

It is the media and the people that call them heroes and for most it is embarrassing.

Many will return from operations feeling guilty to have survived, they will not feel like heroes, they will be thinking about those not returning and often the heroic actions of thier friends that enabled themselves to return and not thier friends, nothing could top that for making them feel less like heroes.

What they would like is our respect, respect for thier willingness to do the bidding of the nation, and by electing a government we authorise them to do what is asked of them.

There is probably not a soldier past and present who would be impressed or gratified by being called a hero, but I think they all earn, deserve and hope for our respect.

Let's not diminish what they do by thinking they want to be called heroes and simply respect them like we respect firemen, nurses, road sweepers, miners and many others.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Why are we fighting for oil that does not belong to us? This is not "another subject" it is one that everybody wants to avoid.

It seems to be that there is one dictator who is basically controlling the oil in any case. Any guesses?

Soldiers take an oath to protect the people yes .... and Donvan was also right. He's the universal soldier ... his orders come from far and wide and you and me ....... (we want the oil for our various selfish reasons).

I worked with an ex-soldier from Iraq and quite a hight ranking one and he was not proud at all of what they were being asked to do in Iraq.

We all have the capacity to be heroes, thank goodness, but being a soldier, a nurse, or even a teacher like myself, does not automatically make you one.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

not taking anything away from our military but why do others doing jobs in the public sector see themselves as potential heroes any more than others that work in the private sector.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As I said, I don't think anyone sees themselves as a hero in the making, I think everyone would like to be respected for what they do.

Nor should a soldier feel proud of what he does, nobody should no matter what they do, unless it is feeling proud that they have done what they get paid for to the best of thier abilities, be it the Sky TV installer, the tin can maker or the soldier.

The officer mentioned should not need to feel proud of what he is doing nor should he feel ashamed, he is doing what he took an oath to do, when I am served at McDonalds some staff earn my respect for doing the job well. They can be proud that they have fullfilled thier contract with thier employers to the best of thier abilities.

The OP asked about labeling people as heroes simply for doing the job they were entrusted and contracted to do, I have said that in my personal opinion doing your job doesn't make you a hero.

I still think that such people will have more chances to become heroes than the Sky TV installer or the guy/girl at McDonalds but the title is earned not automatically given. I think that other people have more opportunity to become heroes in thier professions too.

We have never asked our soldiers to sign up to do a job that they believe to be just, we ask them to sign up to do whatever the nation asks of them, it doesn't make them heroes but it should earn them respect.

Doctors treat drug addicts and some would rather see the money and time spent on cases where self abuse was not present, we don't respect doctors any less for doing it.

In an ideal world soldiers could decide if a cause is just, if they should fight that particular battle, if they are right to be where they are, but from the day we formed our first army we took that priviledge away from them, we can sit here in our nice houses and say it's wrong to be in Iraq, they agreed to forgoe that right in order to ensure our freedom.

It doesn't make them heroes but it earns my respect at least.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

A very good read thank you everyone for contributing

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By *ollie_JCouple
over a year ago

London

I don't remember taking an oath to represent the people, in the uk, at least when I took it..

I took an oath to the queen and to the officers above me

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

ok then serve the queen and your ranking officers, it doesn't change what I said, soldiers should be proud only to have done thier duty under the oath they took. it doesn't earn them hero status it earns them respect in my eyes

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By *ig badMan
over a year ago

Up North :-)

Never really though you could be a hero if it was your job and your getting paid for it. I think the man or woman in the street who caries out an act of heroism is the ones who deserve praise as they were not expected to do it.

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By *iamondsmiles.Woman
over a year ago

little house on the praire

I think hero is an extremely over used word therefore doesnt seem to hold out when you talk about real heros.

Hero's to name a few of the top of my head

Harry patch

Bob Geldof

Mother Theresa

Non hero's

Any footballer, pop star or any such like

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I think hero is an extremely over used word therefore doesnt seem to hold out when you talk about real heros.

Hero's to name a few of the top of my head

Harry patch

Bob Geldof

Mother Theresa

Non hero's

Any footballer, pop star or any such like"

Huh is this for real?now how did you come to that assumption...

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By *iamondsmiles.Woman
over a year ago

little house on the praire

"I think hero is an extremely over used word therefore doesnt seem to hold out when you talk about real heros.

Hero's to name a few of the top of my head

Harry patch

Bob Geldof

Mother Theresa

Non hero's

Any footballer, pop star or any such like

Huh is this for real?now how did you come to that assumption..."

You have lost me

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I think hero is an extremely over used word therefore doesnt seem to hold out when you talk about real heros.

Hero's to name a few of the top of my head

Harry patch

Bob Geldof

Mother Theresa

Non hero's

Any footballer, pop star or any such like

Huh is this for real?now how did you come to that assumption..."

I see now we have heroes and 'real' heroes

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We all view heroism differently.

To me, my sister who i miss each and every day was my hero and always will be .

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By *iamondsmiles.Woman
over a year ago

little house on the praire

"I think hero is an extremely over used word therefore doesnt seem to hold out when you talk about real heros.

Hero's to name a few of the top of my head

Harry patch

Bob Geldof

Mother Theresa

Non hero's

Any footballer, pop star or any such like

Huh is this for real?now how did you come to that assumption...

I see now we have heroes and 'real' heroes"

Still lost me unless you class footballers and pop stars as hero's

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By *ollie_JCouple
over a year ago

London

Well not all pop stars ...

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I think hero is an extremely over used word therefore doesnt seem to hold out when you talk about real heros.

Hero's to name a few of the top of my head

Harry patch

Bob Geldof

Mother Theresa

Non hero's

Any footballer, pop star or any such like

Huh is this for real?now how did you come to that assumption...

I see now we have heroes and 'real' heroes

Still lost me unless you class footballers and pop stars as hero's"

I know nothing about popstars but am aware of many footballers who have contributed vast amounts of time and money to events that save and inspire lifes

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By *zMaleMan
over a year ago

penzance

"Never really though you could be a hero if it was your job and your getting paid for it. I think the man or woman in the street who caries out an act of heroism is the ones who deserve praise as they were not expected to do it. "

As an ex forces guy and with a son in the Army I feel the term heroes is over used. I will and so will my son say that a hero is someone who carries out an action above and beyond his call of duty, in whatever form of life it is, for example, a member of the public jumping into an icy river to save another. That to me is an act of heroism that should be acknowledged and regognised. OK I support and acknowledge our troops wherever they maybe, they are not heroes but god speed to eveyone of them.

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By *iamondsmiles.Woman
over a year ago

little house on the praire

"I think hero is an extremely over used word therefore doesnt seem to hold out when you talk about real heros.

Hero's to name a few of the top of my head

Harry patch

Bob Geldof

Mother Theresa

Non hero's

Any footballer, pop star or any such like

Huh is this for real?now how did you come to that assumption...

I see now we have heroes and 'real' heroes

Still lost me unless you class footballers and pop stars as hero's

I know nothing about popstars but am aware of many footballers who have contributed vast amounts of time and money to events that save and inspire lifes"

I see where your coming from, i was refering to people refering to footballers and popstars as "hero's" just cause they can sing or have a bit of talent on the field

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By *asochrisMan
over a year ago

cardiff

[Removed by poster at 20/08/10 00:11:11]

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Very well put!

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I think hero is an extremely over used word therefore doesnt seem to hold out when you talk about real heros.

Hero's to name a few of the top of my head

Harry patch

Bob Geldof

Mother Theresa

Non hero's

Any footballer, pop star or any such like

Huh is this for real?now how did you come to that assumption...

I see now we have heroes and 'real' heroes

Still lost me unless you class footballers and pop stars as hero's

I know nothing about popstars but am aware of many footballers who have contributed vast amounts of time and money to events that save and inspire lifes

I see where your coming from, i was refering to people refering to footballers and popstars as "hero's" just cause they can sing or have a bit of talent on the field"

Glad you got my point at last

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By *zMaleMan
over a year ago

penzance

WTF footballers and popstars in the same sentence as HEROES get the fuck outta here.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"WTF footballers and popstars in the same sentence as HEROES get the fuck outta here.

Yet few minutes ago you said this... "a hero is someone who carries out an action above and beyond his call of duty, in whatever form of life it is, for example, a member of the public jumping into an icy river to save another. That to me is an act of heroism that should be acknowledged and regognised"

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By *zMaleMan
over a year ago

penzance

"WTF footballers and popstars in the same sentence as HEROES get the fuck outta here.

So when did a footballer or popstar act above and beyond his or call of duty????? They will never put their life on the line!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"WTF footballers and popstars in the same sentence as HEROES get the fuck outta here.

So when did a footballer or popstar act above and beyond his or call of duty????? They will never put their life on the line!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Most do it in varies ways not just putting their lives on the line

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

Most do it in varies ways not just putting their lives on the line"

Ah right, so when "sir" BoB of geldorf got us all to give money for band aid "he" was a "hero"!

funny how all us ex mobsters (ex forces) say doing a job does not make you a hero, you need to put yourself on the line outside what is required by duty. The answer comes back from those who admit they would never deliberately place themselves in danger to save others, that doing your job or raising awareness of or money to redress an issue is all that is required to be a hero!

My god with attitudes like that.....

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

A hero is different for everyone Will......just because it isn't the same definition as yours doesn't make it wrong or warrant your last comment.

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By (user no longer on site)
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Some people go through life with blinkers on and can never see anyone elses point of view which is fine until they start trying to ram their point of view down your throat

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"A hero is different for everyone Will......just because it isn't the same definition as yours doesn't make it wrong or warrant your last comment."

Well said!

Santa Cruz(footballer) gives over 40% of his wages to help built schools,roads and hospital in his village unlike some who use their millions to pay for prostitutes

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

"A hero is different for everyone Will......just because it isn't the same definition as yours doesn't make it wrong or warrant your last comment."

I understand this, a student standing in front of a tank in Tienanmen Sq may be seen by some as stupid, but it is heroic, a doctor entering an unstable building to give medical aid to a trapped person is the same, the crews of lifeboats who answer distress calls, people who while still alive donate body parts to keep others alive knowing they are shortening their own lives, prisoners of conscious all over the world who stand up are locked up and sometimes killed for their beliefs, the list goes on and on, are all heroes. But lending your name to raise money for charity? I think not!

Heroism is not about if I agree with them or not, it is about choosing to stand up and having courage to follow that choice through.

It is devalued when it is credited to those who either have no choice about the situation they find themselves in or those who climb on a bandwagon to raise or improve their image.

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

" or warrant your last comment."

As I said above ........A hero is different for everyone Will......just because it isn't the same definition as yours doesn't make it wrong

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"WTF footballers and popstars in the same sentence as HEROES get the fuck outta here.

Agreed. Doing what you get paid for, regardless of how well you do it, shouldn't be thought of as heroism. That's just being an exceptional serviceman/woman, police officer, firefighter etc.

The same ought to apply to gongs. I don't believe a senior civil servant should get a knighthood simply for having been a senior civil servant for x years or that a lollipop lady should get an OBE for having been a lollipop for x years. If either does good stuff (like being a Scout leader or a Brown Owl) outwith their employment - that's another matter.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I believe the term 'heroes', when used to describe our forces abroad, is meant as an umbrella for all the forces of 'good' as opposed to those we are fighting, ie. infidels, insurgents etc.

If our cause is just then our soldiers are fighting an heroic battle, and thus are heroes.

This is not to be confused with individual acts of selfless bravery where one man risks his own life to save his comrades or even an innocent civilian - that is a Hero.

Incidentally, to the OP:

100,000 Iraqis have perished since the war began - not 1,000,000. I know 100,000 is still a lot of lives lost but it's only 10% of 1,000,0000 and an even smaller percentage of innocent Iraqis, Kurds & Kuwaitis who lost their lives under Saddam Hussein's brutal regime.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I believe the term 'heroes', when used to describe our forces abroad, is meant as an umbrella for all the forces of 'good' as opposed to those we are fighting, ie. infidels, insurgents etc.

If our cause is just then our soldiers are fighting an heroic battle, and thus are heroes.

This is not to be confused with individual acts of selfless bravery where one man risks his own life to save his comrades or even an innocent civilian - that is a Hero.

Incidentally, to the OP:

Life under saddam was far much better than what we have now and it will get even worse that the American troops pulled out yesterday!..i lost two close friends in Iraq and for what?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Life under saddam was far much better than what we have now and it will get even worse that the American troops pulled out yesterday!..i lost two close friends in Iraq and for what?"

I'm sure the relatives of the 5,000 Kurdish villagers he gassed to death will disagree with you there. Or the thousands of detainees that were arrested, tortured and killed by Saddam's henchmen, or the hundreds of women who were raped by his sons and to prevent them ever saying what a lousy fuck they were, were murdered to silence them.

Your friends knew that joining the army may one day require the ultimate sacrifice. They were prepared for it so you should be proud of how they died, or else you cheapen their deaths.

My brother-in-law is in Afghanistan as we speak, and he's right there on the front line and has been so for 2 years on and off. He has lost dozens of comrades, men he knew personally and some of which I met when he wed my sister some years back. They ALL knew it could happen, they live with it every single day they are out there but they know full well that if the man next to them is hurt they will risk their own lives to get them to safety.

You never leave a wounded comrade on the battlefield. That is their motto, and they live and die by it. Literally.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Life under saddam was far much better than what we have now and it will get even worse that the American troops pulled out yesterday!..i lost two close friends in Iraq and for what?

Your friends knew that joining the army may one day require the ultimate sacrifice. They were prepared for it so you should be proud of how they died, or else you cheapen their deaths.

You never leave a wounded comrade on the battlefield. That is their motto, and they live and die by it. Literally."

And what make you think the kurdish are in a better position now,they infact begged the Americans to stay.Ill always be proud of my friends for the risk they took but i would like to see the fruits of their sacrifice not more suffering to iraqs

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

yes..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I personally disagree with this one sentence

"It is devalued when it is credited to those who either have no choice about the situation they find themselves"

Some of us have no choice in what life throws at them. But if they inspire us because of their own fight and determination , and dont give in till the last...

To me thats a hero in my book

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I personally disagree with this one sentence

"It is devalued when it is credited to those who either have no choice about the situation they find themselves"

Some of us have no choice in what life throws at them. But if they inspire us because of their own fight and determination , and dont give in till the last...

To me thats a hero in my book "

Thats not a hero. To be a hero is to make the choice to do something extraordinary, even at personal cost, for the benefit of others. The above is little more than poor situational fate. It may be hard, or difficult, but it's not a hero anymore than someone addicted to cocaine for 50 years is a hero for getting clean.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Most Medals do not signify that someone is a hero, thousands of people have earned a VC but never had one awarded.

For example to be awarded a VC an officer with the Kings/Queens commission has to be present at the time (unlike the Medal of Honour given to American Servicemen and women) a really good example was the refusal to give a VC to Captain Hamilton in the Falklands campaign, having survived the attack on Grytvikken in South Georgia and the attack on the airbase at Pebble Island he attacked an Company of Argentine troops when and his signaller where ambushed by them, both wounded Captain Hamilton continued to follow and repeatedly attack the Company while his signaller made his escape, He was wounded but continued to hary the enemy until he was killed, He was recommended for a VC ...... by the Commander of the Argentine Company who admitted to believing they were under attack from a larger force, but because the Argentine officer did not hold the Queens commission a lesser award was given .... Captain Hamilton was a hero.

I believe that the public and media use of the word Hero takes something away from the Heroes who deserve the title, what value a knighthood if we could all have one just by attending a function where other Knights of the Realm were present.

As I said before almost every serving soldier male or female, every fireman, every nurse and everyone else that does something out of the ordinary does not want to be called a hero, they just want respect the same as the rest of us.

We should use the word brave more than hero, brave firemen putting thier lives on the line, brave soldiers, brave nurses facing abuse and assault, brave AA men parking thier vans in a way that protects the motorist on the motorway and working to repair a car in a danger zone.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 20/08/10 14:51:35]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I personally disagree with this one sentence

"It is devalued when it is credited to those who either have no choice about the situation they find themselves"

Some of us have no choice in what life throws at them. But if they inspire us because of their own fight and determination , and dont give in till the last...

To me thats a hero in my book

Well we have to agree to disagree on that before i get banned anyways.

I said it was my own personal view and not yours or anyone elses.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Perhaps we need a new word, something like Saint but that word need to many qualifications from places like the Vatican.

Mother Tereesa was a saint but wont qualify.

Bob Geldof is a saint for his work in Africa but wont get one.

I think we need a word to describe people devoting themselves to the benefit of others financially or physically or by thier inspiration.

But we have a word already for Hero and that is Brave.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Simon Weston, hero or saint ?

If you say hero please don't say it to his face, he used to get very upset when he was in Woolwich hospital at being called a hero, he sat on a ship and was unfortunate enough to recieve burns that most people would not survive. He was brave enough to be on that ship but unlucky when it was attacked, he was luckier than many who died on the ship and that is how he feels about it. It used to embarass him when he was called a hero, it made him feel guilty because many of his friends died on that ship and in the fighting that followed.

Simon Weston has moved on to become an inspiration to others, dedicating his life to helping people in a similar situation, working tirelessly to help charities and people.

Please don't take anything away from him by calling him a hero, praise him for what he has done since that time, call him a saint if you want, call him an inspiration, give him a knighthood and call him Sir, but don't call him a hero, he won't thank you for it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Agree

He is "inspirational"

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By *ustyWoman
over a year ago

inverclyde

anyone who as been involved in a war and come back alive, even if now disabled in any way or suffering from anything that has changed there lives are most def a hero

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"And what make you think the kurdish are in a better position now,they infact begged the Americans to stay.Ill always be proud of my friends for the risk they took but i would like to see the fruits of their sacrifice not more suffering to iraqs"

You made two errors in your opening post.

1) 100,000 Iraqis have died since the war began, not 1,000,000

2) There Americans have not pulled out of Iraq, only their combat troops.

50,000 Americans will be remaining until the end of next year to assist with training the Iraqi Police & Army personnel.

The U.S. has spent $1 Trillion so far in Iraq and that expenditure had to come to an end at some point, plus the Iraqis need to get a hold of their own country and ensure democracy survives long after the Americans have gone home. That was the mandate of the coalition forces at the outset of all this and now it's time to put it to the test. The true legacy that our fallen soldiers will leave behind is a safe, stable democratic country, and I hope the Iraqis recognise those fallen HEROES at some point in the future when their infrastucture is rebuilt and their economy is thriving.

One point to remember: Most of the American forces leaving Iraq this week will NOT be heading home to the U.S., but instead flying direct to Afghanistan to continue the struggle there, and some of those boys won't ever be going home. A sobering thought.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Was going to give a wee rant on here about the Middle East etc. but thought nah stay out of the political mess.

A HERO.....White Charger 'n all........

I am HERO I went to the Falklands and shot dead innocent 18 yr old conscripts. I revel in the fact I have a medal for it, I watched as the Union flag was raised above Government House in Port Stanley.

The word H.E.R.O. makes me sick to my stomach, I still have nightmares, I wake up screaming in the night 28 years on as I see my best mate blown to fuck yards in front of me, I still smell him all over me.

So don't call me a Hero, I was a shit scared 21yr old who puked everytime a bullet from my gun hit a poor untrained boy who wasn't even equipped to be there.

I've got nieces in the States who have husbands over in the Middle East right now, one of them has a limp now after his mate stood on a mine and was blown to fuck all over him, and another who was in a Humvee that drove over a mine.

The difference between them and me is, they were brought up in a kick ass country who believe in retribution and a HERO is someone who wears a uniform and goes out and gets that retribution.

Me........... I'm a shaven headed Buddhist who will not hurt an insect now.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's very diffuclt to post an honest answer to that except to say that the way you are now is the way your experiences left you. It's the type of person that you are - some can accept the full horrors of war and some cannot. You joined up of your own free will so something inside you wanted that excitement, something made you want to hold a gun. You had your training and that's where it should have hit home hard that some day you may be required to point your gun at a live person and pull the trigger regardless of whether you believed in why you were doing it or not.

I know that I cannot handle authority too well and that's why I never joined the forces - I'd question every order given to me and that's something a soldier should never do; the chain of command exists so that an army can operate effectively and as it's leaders want it to.

So that's my reasons for not joining up, and as a civilian I thank all those brave boys and girls that have enlisted of their own free will and, in some cases, made the ultimate sacrifice. To me, they are Heroes. They did something I could not, but I am safer because of their courage.

But I wonder if you've considered that every 18y/o boy in the Argentine Army had been told that if you caught him, you'd eat him, and because of that he'd have blown your brains out if you hadn't done the same to him.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I joined up because I was a military "brat" both my parents were in so naturally I folowed suit. It was the easiest way for me to learn a trade and get a decent living.

I knew there may come a time when I would have had to bear arms but hoped it would never happen, as does majority of people than join.

When Argentina declared war, I never thought for a second Maggie would send a FULL military invasion.

Never the less there we were 12,000 miles away from home fighting a nation I supported in the 1978 World Cup....after my own that was. The war changed me, initially I did seek work that was militaristic in nature, I worked armed response in MOD secure areas, I bodyguarded the rich and famous anything that showed me to be a tough guy with an authoritarian ring to it.

Nowadays, I tend my garden and I shag other guys wives (I think I always did that)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 20/08/10 18:20:04]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Referring to many previous posters, i personally think the word hero is over used.

My husband is a serving soldier - I respect him for that.

He volunteered to go to Afghanistan with a different unit to his own - I admire him for that

He took 80 men to Afghanistan and brought all 80 home safely - I am proud of him for that

Whilst he could have sat around drinking tea in camp he went out on the ground and did what the 'lower ranks' were doing' - I cannot begin to understand the camaraderie and bond he has with his fellow soldiers.

Whilst he is my husband and i love him, is he actually a hero?? NO... he is doing what he signed up to do, he is simply doing his job.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I am not sure which Falkland Islands you went to but the one where the battles took place were occupied by some conscripts and an awfull lot of special forces like the 5th Marine Regiment (BIM-5) on Tumbledown and Wireless Ridge, these guys fought against the Scots Guards (Tumbledown) often in hand to hand combat and against 2 Para (Wireless Ridge) they also occupied Sappers Hill, supported by Artillery units and re-inforced by a Heavy Machine Gun Company. They were twice ordered to withdraw from thier fortified positions but refused to do so and fought on for a futher 5 hours after recieving those orders.

Innocent conscripts, 17 year old boys, yes there were conscripts on the islands, some in forward positions but most were in the rear echelon, a large amount of the opposing forces were Argentine Marine Regiments and Special Forces who had been dug in to well fortified and prepared positions for months.

Different Argentine authorities have repeatedly decorated BIM-5's colors, while Marine Admiral Robacio is a holder of the French Légion d'Honneur and he was awarded the Argentine Nation to the Valour in Combat Medal.

Mount Tumbledown, Mount William, and Sapper Hill lie west of Stanley. They were held by BIM-5, a reinforced, cold weather trained and equipped, marine battalion. During preparations for movement to the Falklands, the Marine battalion was brought up to full strength of a light brigade with a company of the amphibious engineer company and a battery of the 1st Marine Artillery Regiment. The 5th Marines were further strengthened by three Tigercat SAM batteries of the 1st Marine Anti-Aircraft Regiment, deployed along Stanley harbor, and a heavy machine-gun company of Headquarters Battalion.

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By *ushroom7Man
over a year ago

Bradford

"Referring to many previous posters, i personally think the word hero is over used.

My husband is a serving soldier - I respect him for that.

He volunteered to go to Afghanistan with a different unit to his own - I admire him for that

He took 80 men to Afghanistan and brought all 80 home safely - I am proud of him for that

Whilst he is my husband and i love him, is he actually a hero?? NO... he is doing what he signed up to do, he is simply doing his job."

Excellent post. Thank you.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Blimey........

all "hero" status comes down to bieng in the military it seems..

I was three years in the army..germany was my only posting..

My two brothers both in and two cousins.

All of those men served in extreme conditions and would i say they are heros....Maybe not.

Would i say they have balls, determination, grit and whatever...

too bloody right.

Its how WE personally perceive people , in whether they are "heros"

You maybe didnt fight in a war, you maybe didnt saves people lives...

But what you did inspired those who went after you. Those who took courage from what you endured.

Those of who are left with only memories.

As i first stated.

Its a personal perspective.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

the late Jane Tomlinson was a hero to me.

terminally ill and still gave back to others.

her kids must miss her but be full of pride for their mum.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

See.......

Now thats nice.

god bless her..x

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

My late father was a hero, have got his medal to prove it....that was in the days before being a pop star or a footballer gained hero status.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

You made two errors in your opening post.

1) 100,000 Iraqis have died since the war began, not 1,000,000

2) There Americans have not pulled out of Iraq, only their combat troops.

50,000 Americans will be remaining until the end of next year to assist with training the Iraqi Police & Army personnel.

They've left Iraq insecure,jobless and destroyed,its only 3 days ago over 60 men lining up to join the army got blown away,it will get worse we'll be forced to invade again to save the little survivors left!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Lots of people know the problems and why it's all wrong, so let's hear the solutions, what would people have done about Saddam invading another country to control thier oilfields as he tried with Iran for 10 years, what would they have done when he next invaded Saudia Arabia as he had planned swiftly followed by Syria as captured documents revealed. How would they have prevented him murding so many of his people ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

That's the real challenge, ain't it. (Almost) everyone and their cat has an opinion about what ought NOT to have been done.

Precious few are prepared to stick it above the parapet and say what, if anything, they think ought to have been done.

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By *ushroom7Man
over a year ago

Bradford

"That's the real challenge, ain't it. (Almost) everyone and their cat has an opinion about what ought NOT to have been done.

Precious few are prepared to stick it above the parapet and say what, if anything, they think ought to have been done."

Well, whatever the challenge it's a damn sight harder than it was.

And the new bulletin did add that the American troops are staying, not just to train the Iraqi's but to "protect their interests".

There appear to be a hell of a lot of countries with ongoing "tribal" warfare, i doubt it will ever stop.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Lots of people know the problems and why it's all wrong, so let's hear the solutions, what would people have done about Saddam invading another country to control thier oilfields as he tried with Iran for 10 years, what would they have done when he next invaded Saudia Arabia as he had planned swiftly followed by Syria as captured documents revealed. How would they have prevented him murding so many of his people ?

"
He had no weapons of mass destruction has we were forced to believe and causing the death of over 100,000 innocent civilians and their livelihood has not made our country safe has it?!

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Was going to give a wee rant on here about the Middle East etc. but thought nah stay out of the political mess.

A HERO.....White Charger 'n all........

So don't call me a Hero, I was a shit scared 21yr old who puked everytime a bullet from my gun hit a poor untrained boy who wasn't even equipped to be there.

The difference between them and me is, they were brought up in a kick ass country who believe in retribution and a HERO is someone who wears a uniform and goes out and gets that retribution.

Me........... I'm a shaven headed Buddhist who will not hurt an insect now.

"
Am humbled!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

He had no weapons of mass destruction has we were forced to believe and causing the death of over 100,000 innocent civilians and their livelihood has not made our country safe has it?!"

Ask the Kurds, he used mustard gas on them and killed many people. Is that not mass destruction?

Maybe we should have done as Neville Chamberlain did in 1938

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

He had no weapons of mass destruction has we were forced to believe and causing the death of over 100,000 innocent civilians and their livelihood has not made our country safe has it?!"

The unfortunate and simplistic concentration on WMD has been something of a red herring. Neither Lockerbie nor 9/11 (just to stick to two which have been in the media recently) were about WMD.

That doesn't mean that all possible, if unpalatable, steps ought not to have been taken to prevent them.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

He had no weapons of mass destruction has we were forced to believe and causing the death of over 100,000 innocent civilians and their livelihood has not made our country safe has it?!

Ask the Kurds, he used mustard gas on them and killed many people. Is that not mass destruction?

Maybe we should have done as Neville Chamberlain did in 1938

"
Saddam was in power for 30yrs how many did he kill as compared to the 7yrs of invasion,well the kurds are in worse position than they were during saddam dictatorship.They are not even part of the soon to take over government!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Instead of posting your somewhat biased slant on what's happening in Iraq why didn't you post the entire story about those 60 men who dies whilst joining the Iraqi Army.

Why didn't you say that scores more patriotic Iraqi men were injured in that attack, went to hospital to receive treatment and then went straight back to the place where they were injured and signed up.

Why didn't you say that also?

The fact is that the Iraqi people have asked the Americans to stay because they desperately want their fledgling democracy to succeed and are terrified that they don't feel up to the job of protecting their own country yet. What they have realised yet is that the U.S. wouldn't have withdrawn combat troops if they didn't think the Iraqis were capable. All the Iraq Army needs is the confidence to protect the very thing we've all been fighting for - Freedom.

You paint a picture of a country that cannot sustain itself yet there are many there who believe in what they've achieved, and you sell them - and us - short by suggesting that without the Americans it will descend into chaos.

I've no doubt that they'll always be fundamentally opposed it Israel, such is the politics of the Middle East, but that is for them to sort out. I know one thing for sure though, Iraq will find itself with split loyalties if it ever tries to side against Israel as they owe the Americans so much and we all know that Israel are favoured friends of the United States.

Maybe by removing Saddam the Americans have, quite by accident, brought peace to the Middle East - or maybe it wasn't an accident at all.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

He had no weapons of mass destruction has we were forced to believe and causing the death of over 100,000 innocent civilians and their livelihood has not made our country safe has it?!

Ask the Kurds, he used mustard gas on them and killed many people. Is that not mass destruction?

Maybe we should have done as Neville Chamberlain did in 1938

Saddam was in power for 30yrs how many did he kill as compared to the 7yrs of invasion,well the kurds are in worse position than they were during saddam dictatorship.They are not even part of the soon to take over government!"

Over 10 million if you include the Iran Iraq war.

And the curds are not in a worse position at all and i find it insulting you should say that as i have family there. If your going to quote things can you please try to get your facts right.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

He had no weapons of mass destruction has we were forced to believe and causing the death of over 100,000 innocent civilians and their livelihood has not made our country safe has it?!

Ask the Kurds, he used mustard gas on them and killed many people. Is that not mass destruction?

Maybe we should have done as Neville Chamberlain did in 1938

Over 10 million if you include the Iran Iraq war.

And the curds are not in a worse position at all and i find it insulting you should say that as i have family there. If your going to quote things can you please try to get your facts right."

Kindly watch newsnight broadcasted on monday night and see what am talking about

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

..............

Maybe by removing Saddam the Americans have, quite by accident, brought peace to the Middle East - or maybe it wasn't an accident at all.

Maybe Uncle Sam has finally realised that the money spent buying Jewish votes could be better spent elsewhere.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"........

Kindly watch newsnight broadcasted on monday night and see what am talking about"

Newsnight has an agenda too.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

He had no weapons of mass destruction has we were forced to believe and causing the death of over 100,000 innocent civilians and their livelihood has not made our country safe has it?!

Ask the Kurds, he used mustard gas on them and killed many people. Is that not mass destruction?

Maybe we should have done as Neville Chamberlain did in 1938

Over 10 million if you include the Iran Iraq war.

And the curds are not in a worse position at all and i find it insulting you should say that as i have family there. If your going to quote things can you please try to get your facts right.

Kindly watch newsnight broadcasted on monday night and see what am talking about"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

..............

Maybe by removing Saddam the Americans have, quite by accident, brought peace to the Middle East - or maybe it wasn't an accident at all.

Maybe Uncle Sam has finally realised that the money spent buying Jewish votes could be better spent elsewhere."

The friend of my enemy is also my enemy but my friend is also friend to my enemy which makes my enemy my friend also.

Money well spent - maybe.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

He had no weapons of mass destruction has we were forced to believe and causing the death of over 100,000 innocent civilians and their livelihood has not made our country safe has it?!

Ask the Kurds, he used mustard gas on them and killed many people. Is that not mass destruction?

Maybe we should have done as Neville Chamberlain did in 1938

Over 10 million if you include the Iran Iraq war.

And the curds are not in a worse position at all and i find it insulting you should say that as i have family there. If your going to quote things can you please try to get your facts right.

Kindly watch newsnight broadcasted on monday night and see what am talking about

What a program made by egotistical bleeding heart liberals with a bias view of life! Like i said get your FACTS right or if you don't know anything about a subject then best not to say anything at all. I have FAMILY there ok people who lived through things and only just. your just showing your bias and ignorance of things here."
Why are you assuming its biased while the bbc was interviewing the kurds themselves..it really doesnt make a difference whether your family live there or not.You havent stated any facts to prove the kurds have equal share on the government or still under threat from Turkey as well.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"........

Kindly watch newsnight broadcasted on monday night and see what am talking about

Newsnight has an agenda too."

Why would they have an agenda in Iraq,while we withdrew years ago?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Newsnight = BBC = State Funded

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

He had no weapons of mass destruction has we were forced to believe and causing the death of over 100,000 innocent civilians and their livelihood has not made our country safe has it?!

Ask the Kurds, he used mustard gas on them and killed many people. Is that not mass destruction?

Maybe we should have done as Neville Chamberlain did in 1938

Over 10 million if you include the Iran Iraq war.

And the curds are not in a worse position at all and i find it insulting you should say that as i have family there. If your going to quote things can you please try to get your facts right.

Kindly watch newsnight broadcasted on monday night and see what am talking about

What a program made by egotistical bleeding heart liberals with a bias view of life! Like i said get your FACTS right or if you don't know anything about a subject then best not to say anything at all. I have FAMILY there ok people who lived through things and only just. your just showing your bias and ignorance of things here.Why are you assuming its biased while the bbc was interviewing the kurds themselves..it really doesnt make a difference whether your family live there or not.You havent stated any facts to prove the kurds have equal share on the government or still under threat from Turkey as well."

We were not talking about equal share in govt or any such thing. You said that they were better off under Sadam which they were clearly not.

And it does make a difference where i have family as they have said first hand how things are better than they were. All you do is quote facts out of mid air. You initially say 1 million innocent citizens, then change to 100,000 innocent civilians. You do not know this. You do not know how many were terrorists and the like. You clearly do not have a clue what your talking about.

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By *ushroom7Man
over a year ago

Bradford

"Newsnight = BBC = State Funded "

Newsnight = BBC = Public Funded

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"........

Kindly watch newsnight broadcasted on monday night and see what am talking about

Newsnight has an agenda too.

Why would they have an agenda in Iraq,while we withdrew years ago?"

Do you swallow everything your spoon fed? Look at the producers and look at their political history and the sort of reporting and broadcasts they have done in the past.

Do you not realise that media sensationalism helps get people watching.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Newsnight = BBC = State Funded

Newsnight = BBC = Public Funded"

Funded by a licence fee paid to the government. Who then decide what happens to it and what proportion goes to which area.

The BBC are controlled by our government indirectly or directly or would you challenge that?

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By (user no longer on site)
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Any chance of getting back to heroes

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Any chance of getting back to heroes

I thought the original post was more to do with sacrificial lambs our govts are using to wedge unnecessary wars

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Any chance of getting back to heroes

I happen to find it a little offensive someone saying family were better off under a tyrant than being liberated and given the option of a democratic system. Maybe i am wrong though feeling compassion for relatives

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

He had no weapons of mass destruction has we were forced to believe and causing the death of over 100,000 innocent civilians and their livelihood has not made our country safe has it?!

Ask the Kurds, he used mustard gas on them and killed many people. Is that not mass destruction?

Maybe we should have done as Neville Chamberlain did in 1938

Over 10 million if you include the Iran Iraq war.

And the curds are not in a worse position at all and i find it insulting you should say that as i have family there. If your going to quote things can you please try to get your facts right.

Kindly watch newsnight broadcasted on monday night and see what am talking about

What a program made by egotistical bleeding heart liberals with a bias view of life! Like i said get your FACTS right or if you don't know anything about a subject then best not to say anything at all. I have FAMILY there ok people who lived through things and only just. your just showing your bias and ignorance of things here.Why are you assuming its biased while the bbc was interviewing the kurds themselves..it really doesnt make a difference whether your family live there or not.You havent stated any facts to prove the kurds have equal share on the government or still under threat from Turkey as well.

We were not talking about equal share in govt or any such thing. You said that they were better off under Sadam which they were clearly not.

Dont misquote me i said Iraq was better off under saddam before the invasion,you are forgetting the Americans betrayed the kurds during the first gulf war by promising to help them bring down saddam.Well during the second invasion in 2003 the kurds have had protection from coalition forces but now the americans are packing up they fear for the worst

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Any chance of getting back to heroes

Are you trying to tell us Iraq is liberated and on its path to democracy?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

He had no weapons of mass destruction has we were forced to believe and causing the death of over 100,000 innocent civilians and their livelihood has not made our country safe has it?!

Ask the Kurds, he used mustard gas on them and killed many people. Is that not mass destruction?

Maybe we should have done as Neville Chamberlain did in 1938

Over 10 million if you include the Iran Iraq war.

And the curds are not in a worse position at all and i find it insulting you should say that as i have family there. If your going to quote things can you please try to get your facts right.

Kindly watch newsnight broadcasted on monday night and see what am talking about

What a program made by egotistical bleeding heart liberals with a bias view of life! Like i said get your FACTS right or if you don't know anything about a subject then best not to say anything at all. I have FAMILY there ok people who lived through things and only just. your just showing your bias and ignorance of things here.Why are you assuming its biased while the bbc was interviewing the kurds themselves..it really doesnt make a difference whether your family live there or not.You havent stated any facts to prove the kurds have equal share on the government or still under threat from Turkey as well.

We were not talking about equal share in govt or any such thing. You said that they were better off under Sadam which they were clearly not.

YOU said "the kurds are in worse position than they were during saddam dictatorship." YOUR WORDS!

You clearly have no idea as you cannot even remember what you have typed here.

So i did NOT misquote you did I

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Any chance of getting back to heroes

Are you trying to tell us Iraq is liberated and on its path to democracy?"

More so than it was under a dictator. Do you know what a dictator is?

I am telling things are better than they were under Saddam and i am pointing out you need to get your facts strait before quoting things.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Any chance of getting back to heroes

Are you trying to tell us Iraq is liberated and on its path to democracy?

More so than it was under a dictator. Do you know what a dictator is?

I am telling things are better than they were under Saddam and i am pointing out you need to get your facts strait before quoting things. "

It would be good to tell us the facts rather than patronizing and teasing us with it,you've already disregarded bbc recent report..and yes know what dictatorship is and what a state of lawlessness is but if you say the kurds are in a far better state than before the invasion ill take your word for it!

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By *ushroom7Man
over a year ago

Bradford

YES, hero is an overused word.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Anyone who watched the sickening documentary lastnite of the drug crazed US soldiers admitting to killing unarmed iraq civilians will think twice before using the word ..,hero

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