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Women as front line troops

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Women could be allowed to serve in British infantry units for the first time by 2016.

Peoples thoughts on this

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By *obbytupperMan
over a year ago

Menston near Ilkley

There is a place for equality, I don't think this is it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

About time too!

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

I'm in two minds about myself, I guess if a woman is capable then she should be allowed to.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's the 21st century what's to be in two minds about.

18 should be the legal minimum to join but ffs what difference does it make what sex you are.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

send in the fembots

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

They say they lack the killer instincts.....

one word ....Hormonal !

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"There is a place for equality, I don't think this is it. "

this

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

While I agree women should be allowed there's also the psychological aspect to consider. Male soldiers really don't like to see wounded/dead female comrades it affects their morale and fighting abilities more than people would realise.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think they would see the uniform first ....the tits and ass second

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I think they would see the uniform first ....the tits and ass second"

Sadly it doesn't always work like that.

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By *teveanddebsCouple
over a year ago

Norwich

Google "Major Judith Webb"

She seems to know what she is talking about.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

I kinda think the points been missed a lot.

A soldiers job is to kill, they stick 100lb of kit on your back and a rifle in your hands and you then have to get where the killing is.

All this talk about modern weapons and the play station generation. Is rather misleading, some times these lads have to fix bayonets and have a proper fight.

Some women will be able to do this, but I'm guessing not many

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I kinda think the points been missed a lot.

A soldiers job is to kill, they stick 100lb of kit on your back and a rifle in your hands and you then have to get where the killing is.

All this talk about modern weapons and the play station generation. Is rather misleading, some times these lads have to fix bayonets and have a proper fight.

Some women will be able to do this, but I'm guessing not many "

I think you've missed the point yourself....

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"I kinda think the points been missed a lot.

A soldiers job is to kill, they stick 100lb of kit on your back and a rifle in your hands and you then have to get where the killing is.

All this talk about modern weapons and the play station generation. Is rather misleading, some times these lads have to fix bayonets and have a proper fight.

Some women will be able to do this, but I'm guessing not many

I think you've missed the point yourself...."

Which is?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I kinda think the points been missed a lot.

A soldiers job is to kill, they stick 100lb of kit on your back and a rifle in your hands and you then have to get where the killing is.

All this talk about modern weapons and the play station generation. Is rather misleading, some times these lads have to fix bayonets and have a proper fight.

Some women will be able to do this, but I'm guessing not many "
.

This is a guess but.... I reckon that applies to men to

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"I kinda think the points been missed a lot.

A soldiers job is to kill, they stick 100lb of kit on your back and a rifle in your hands and you then have to get where the killing is.

All this talk about modern weapons and the play station generation. Is rather misleading, some times these lads have to fix bayonets and have a proper fight.

Some women will be able to do this, but I'm guessing not many .

This is a guess but.... I reckon that applies to men to"

Certainly does

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex


"They say they lack the killer instincts.....

one word ....Hormonal ! "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I kinda think the points been missed a lot.

A soldiers job is to kill, they stick 100lb of kit on your back and a rifle in your hands and you then have to get where the killing is.

All this talk about modern weapons and the play station generation. Is rather misleading, some times these lads have to fix bayonets and have a proper fight.

Some women will be able to do this, but I'm guessing not many .

This is a guess but.... I reckon that applies to men to

Certainly does"
.

So what difference does it make what sex you are!.

You either can do the job or you can't do the job

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Utterly ridiculous allowing this. From experience, i do not know many women with the physical attributes to cope with the often harsh realities of the job. Yes i know that a woman passed Royal Marines test... but so did a journalist... they were fit but when things get real, its a whole new ball game, and i know that from experience

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By *horltzMan
over a year ago

heysham

Sure fire way to get a quick surrender if you ask me

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By *in with a GrinMan
over a year ago

Carlisle


"Women could be allowed to serve in British infantry units for the first time by 2016.

Peoples thoughts on this"

Same pay = same conditions equality is equality not selected equality

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"I kinda think the points been missed a lot.

A soldiers job is to kill, they stick 100lb of kit on your back and a rifle in your hands and you then have to get where the killing is.

All this talk about modern weapons and the play station generation. Is rather misleading, some times these lads have to fix bayonets and have a proper fight.

Some women will be able to do this, but I'm guessing not many .

This is a guess but.... I reckon that applies to men to

Certainly does.

So what difference does it make what sex you are!.

You either can do the job or you can't do the job"

Well I did say in a second post just that.

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By *onitoMan
over a year ago

Milton of Campsie

Should be at home looking after the kids and do the housework

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Utterly ridiculous allowing this. From experience, i do not know many women with the physical attributes to cope with the often harsh realities of the job. Yes i know that a woman passed Royal Marines test... but so did a journalist... they were fit but when things get real, its a whole new ball game, and i know that from experience "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

i`d like to spare women the horrors of frontline war whether they can do the job or not

we do fine as we are now. no need to change things

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Should be at home looking after the kids and do the housework"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I kinda think the points been missed a lot.

A soldiers job is to kill, they stick 100lb of kit on your back and a rifle in your hands and you then have to get where the killing is.

All this talk about modern weapons and the play station generation. Is rather misleading, some times these lads have to fix bayonets and have a proper fight.

Some women will be able to do this, but I'm guessing not many .

This is a guess but.... I reckon that applies to men to

Certainly does.

So what difference does it make what sex you are!.

You either can do the job or you can't do the job

Well I did say in a second post just that. "
.Yes and I agreed but with the added note that I wouldn't even think twice .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I have a niece serving in the army she's has 3 tours of Afghanistan under her belt and had actively campaigned along with thousands of others for the right to be on the front, I'm told this is my job this is what I'm trained to do !!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"i`d like to spare women the horrors of frontline war whether they can do the job or not

we do fine as we are now. no need to change things"

yeap best army in the world.

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By *vsnikkiTV/TS
over a year ago

Limavady


"Women could be allowed to serve in British infantry units for the first time by 2016.

Peoples thoughts on this

Same pay = same conditions equality is equality not selected equality"

Thoroughly agree. If people are up to the physical and mental standards required then fine. Gender is immaterial. The only concern is when/if standards are lowered to facilitate "equality"

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By *isscheekychopsWoman
over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon


"Should be at home looking after the kids and do the housework"

There is always one...

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By *in with a GrinMan
over a year ago

Carlisle


"Women could be allowed to serve in British infantry units for the first time by 2016.

Peoples thoughts on this

Same pay = same conditions equality is equality not selected equality

Thoroughly agree. If people are up to the physical and mental standards required then fine. Gender is immaterial. The only concern is when/if standards are lowered to facilitate "equality""

There are some tough women who would more than match the average squaddy

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Should be at home looking after the kids and do the housework"

I've been in the army, I'd rather do the house work and look after the kids

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By *adyGardenWoman
over a year ago

LONDON (se)

I would say if they have the exact same physical testing and training as men and they do just as well if not better then why not. Being a woman should not be a reason to be held back if you are just as capable.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Utterly ridiculous allowing this. From experience, i do not know many women with the physical attributes to cope with the often harsh realities of the job. Yes i know that a woman passed Royal Marines test... but so did a journalist... they were fit but when things get real, its a whole new ball game, and i know that from experience "
.

No what's utterly ridiculous is the stupidity of war!.

But if you prefer hard facts, 25% of African militia is made up of children under 11, half of the resistance movements from ww2 were female.

To say that there incapable is a nonsensical argument

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As a previous poster has already mentioned, Major Judith Webb (a very experienced officer) is firmly of the opinion that women are 'not up to the exacting standards of close quarter combat'. She's also 'horrified' to see that fitness standards for the infantry have been lowered so that more women can pass muster.

I'm all for equality, but sometimes it just doesn't make good sense.

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By *uke olovingmanMan
over a year ago

Gravesend

I've seen some ladies take on five or so men at a time lol

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By *omewhat_kinkyCouple
over a year ago

reigate

just look back in history ... SOE dropped lots of women into the occupied countries. the German troops were more scared of the all women regiments that they were of all male ones on the eastern front, the Israelis have had front line women for decades, and as we have seen recently the Kurdish all women regiments are feared by ISIS for religious reasons.

maybe our powers that be have woken up to the strategic use of women against religious extremists....

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By *vsnikkiTV/TS
over a year ago

Limavady


"Women could be allowed to serve in British infantry units for the first time by 2016.

Peoples thoughts on this

Same pay = same conditions equality is equality not selected equality

Thoroughly agree. If people are up to the physical and mental standards required then fine. Gender is immaterial. The only concern is when/if standards are lowered to facilitate "equality"

There are some tough women who would more than match the average squaddy"

Absolutely

In the '80s they started having female officers in the Royal Engineers. All of them were excellent.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Utterly ridiculous allowing this. From experience, i do not know many women with the physical attributes to cope with the often harsh realities of the job. Yes i know that a woman passed Royal Marines test... but so did a journalist... they were fit but when things get real, its a whole new ball game, and i know that from experience .

No what's utterly ridiculous is the stupidity of war!.

But if you prefer hard facts, 25% of African militia is made up of children under 11, half of the resistance movements from ww2 were female.

To say that there incapable is a nonsensical argument"

put a gun in a child's hands and they can fight, but compared to a trained professional army like the British army it's another matter entirely.

A lot of resistance fighters were women, and they were brave and effective

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I would say if they have the exact same physical testing and training as men and they do just as well if not better then why not. Being a woman should not be a reason to be held back if you are just as capable. "

I agree.

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By *unky monkeyMan
over a year ago

in the night garden

Anyone can learn how to shoot a gun. So go for it!

I guess there could be a physical imbalance in hand to hand combat if a small woman came up against big hairy arsed bloke but I'm not sure modern warfare involves much of that.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"While I agree women should be allowed there's also the psychological aspect to consider. Male soldiers really don't like to see wounded/dead female comrades it affects their morale and fighting abilities more than people would realise."

A lot of male soldiers/officers can't deal with the psychological side either - nearly 30% of American soldiers treated at the VA had PTSD. I imagine the real number is significantly higher.

I think implementing equality in this way will help reduce the other problems female military members encounter, such as rape or sexual assault, and the glass ceiling. It doesn't help to treat them as of lesser value rather than equals.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Women could be allowed to serve in British infantry units for the first time by 2016.

Peoples thoughts on this"

wish they had thought of this when i was in ,more women in the battalion means more chance of a shag , we were all in 4 and 8 man rooms back then with comunual showers

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By *arry247Couple
over a year ago

Wakefield

It is nothing to do with equality, men and women are different. A woman has different hygiene problems than a man.

Men also tend to have an instinct to protect a woman in their presence as well.

Both the above were proved in Afgan.

This does not mean women cannot be in the front line but it is not as simple as some like to think.

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By *inaTitzTV/TS
over a year ago

Titz Towers, North Notts

If they can do it and want to do it, then why on earth not?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"It is nothing to do with equality, men and women are different. A woman has different hygiene problems than a man.

Men also tend to have an instinct to protect a woman in their presence as well.

Both the above were proved in Afgan.

This does not mean women cannot be in the front line but it is not as simple as some like to think.

"

I don't know what you mean by hygiene problems. My world doesn't stop when I have a period.

As for men wanting to look after women, surely they should want to look after their entire troop anyway. Why is this a problem?

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By *isscheekychopsWoman
over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon


"It is nothing to do with equality, men and women are different. A woman has different hygiene problems than a man.

Men also tend to have an instinct to protect a woman in their presence as well.

Both the above were proved in Afgan.

This does not mean women cannot be in the front line but it is not as simple as some like to think.

I don't know what you mean by hygiene problems. My world doesn't stop when I have a period.

As for men wanting to look after women, surely they should want to look after their entire troop anyway. Why is this a problem?"

I always wondered what a Tampax was for...I agree with what you are saying it shouldn't be about one sex it should be about the while troop.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"It is nothing to do with equality, men and women are different. A woman has different hygiene problems than a man.

Men also tend to have an instinct to protect a woman in their presence as well.

Both the above were proved in Afgan.

This does not mean women cannot be in the front line but it is not as simple as some like to think.

I don't know what you mean by hygiene problems. My world doesn't stop when I have a period.

As for men wanting to look after women, surely they should want to look after their entire troop anyway. Why is this a problem?"

The ancient spartans used to encourage sexual relationships amongst their men to strengthen the bond between them.

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By *exine xCouple
over a year ago

Leicester


"There is a place for equality, I don't think this is it. "

Why?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Equality and personal choice are the major factors here. How times have changed ! ......and certainly for the better.

There are many roles that women can adapt to in the modern army which do not require the physical strength and brute force a male soldier can provide !

Good luck to them, and let's hope they receive the same recognition as their male counterparts rather than waiting best part of 50 years like land girls and munitions workers did !

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By *ynecplCouple
over a year ago

Newcastle upon Tyne

Speaking as somebody who recently left having commanded both males and females I would say in modern warfare there is no longer such a thing as a front line. Yes depending on gender they had different roles but worked along side one another and carried the kit and a rifle.

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By *onitoMan
over a year ago

Milton of Campsie

Out of interest are there many stay at home dads looking after the kids while their partner is out on a tour?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

More importantly if the chicks are on the front line then who's doing the laundry and cooking me fooking tea????

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Out of interest are there many stay at home dads looking after the kids while their partner is out on a tour?"

That's assuming the female soldiers are in a relationship, and that they have a child. Not all women are intent on having a family.

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By *ynecplCouple
over a year ago

Newcastle upon Tyne


"Out of interest are there many stay at home dads looking after the kids while their partner is out on a tour?"

Simple answer is as with all serving soldiers if deployed then y you have to sort out child care this will usually be the non deploying parent or grandparent. If both serving an effort is usually made to ensure that both are not deployed at the same time.

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By *vsnikkiTV/TS
over a year ago

Limavady


"Out of interest are there many stay at home dads looking after the kids while their partner is out on a tour?

That's assuming the female soldiers are in a relationship, and that they have a child. Not all women are intent on having a family. "

And there seem to be assumptions being made that all the guys will want to shag the women. sexism but probably true!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Ridiculous. They should stay home, make babies and get the tea ready for when hubby gets home.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Out of interest are there many stay at home dads looking after the kids while their partner is out on a tour?

That's assuming the female soldiers are in a relationship, and that they have a child. Not all women are intent on having a family.

And there seem to be assumptions being made that all the guys will want to shag the women. sexism but probably true!"

Surely a male soldier is disciplined enough control himself though.

I find some of my clients attractive but I don't fuck them - it's unprofessional.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Out of interest are there many stay at home dads looking after the kids while their partner is out on a tour?

That's assuming the female soldiers are in a relationship, and that they have a child. Not all women are intent on having a family.

And there seem to be assumptions being made that all the guys will want to shag the women. sexism but probably true!"

They have gay gangbangs.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don't think it has anything to do with equality allowing women on the front line, that some people oppose this. It goes back to instincts of protecting the women.

That is what the general consensus is when ever the subject is in a conversation that I have heard.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire


"Women could be allowed to serve in British infantry units for the first time by 2016.

Peoples thoughts on this

Same pay = same conditions equality is equality not selected equality

Thoroughly agree. If people are up to the physical and mental standards required then fine. Gender is immaterial. The only concern is when/if standards are lowered to facilitate "equality"

There are some tough women who would more than match the average squaddy

Absolutely

In the '80s they started having female officers in the Royal Engineers. All of them were excellent. "

some were good, some were very good, others like some of the male officers were pants..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

get into a soldiers head - when theyre out there doing the job they aint arsed about tits i can assure you - its survival for you and your fellow soldiers -

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By *in with a GrinMan
over a year ago

Carlisle

Following a sexy arse into battle seems better than a hairy guys one

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"They say they lack the killer instincts.....

one word ....Hormonal ! "

not being a hormonal fem myself but having heard stories about pmt id say send them in - no bugger would argue with them in that mode

(not making fun of anybody just being a tad flippant and apologise if i offend)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I don't think it has anything to do with equality allowing women on the front line, that some people oppose this. It goes back to instincts of protecting the women.

That is what the general consensus is when ever the subject is in a conversation that I have heard."

I don't know how it's protecting women to restrict their rights and ensure they're treated equally to men. I see it as belittling and poor treatment.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I don't think it has anything to do with equality allowing women on the front line, that some people oppose this. It goes back to instincts of protecting the women.

That is what the general consensus is when ever the subject is in a conversation that I have heard.

I don't know how it's protecting women to restrict their rights and ensure they're treated equally to men. I see it as belittling and poor treatment. "

Oops. Meant not treated equally to men.

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By *lactontogMan
over a year ago

Clacton on Sea

I agree with women in the forces as they can do the job as good as any guy but front line hand to hand combat etc is totally different, i do have a lady friend on here that works the doors, concerts etc who i wouldn't want to fight but don't mind fucking her lol.

I used to do boxing and even though i know a couple of good women boxers i wouldn't put them up against guys because physically even though some could a very big percentage couldn't.

I am a strong believer of equal rights and pay for women but the front line isn't the place for the gentler sex...maybe as an officer but not physical combat.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

putting all the feminist stuff aside im sure most women would realize our hearts are in the right places when we try to prevent them joining the frontlines of war

like i said before we are doing fine as we are now so there is no need for this change up

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"putting all the feminist stuff aside im sure most women would realize our hearts are in the right places when we try to prevent them joining the frontlines of war

like i said before we are doing fine as we are now so there is no need for this change up"

I don't think so. Not many women want to be perceived as less able than men, so it's not a compliment.

Anyway, almost everyone who has said women shouldn't be on the front line hasn't followed it up with "and neither should men". It's not about preservation of life, it's about gender stereotypes restricting women from doing what they want and are able to do.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"putting all the feminist stuff aside im sure most women would realize our hearts are in the right places when we try to prevent them joining the frontlines of war

like i said before we are doing fine as we are now so there is no need for this change up"

shall we stay inside the cave then while you go hunt dinner

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Its not that womem cant do the job its the fact that on the front line you do not want any distraction and women wpuld be a distraction and it would only take one . Women do not make as good soliders as men some of you will disagree with me and you are entitled to but they just dont

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Its not that womem cant do the job its the fact that on the front line you do not want any distraction and women wpuld be a distraction and it would only take one . Women do not make as good soliders as men some of you will disagree with me and you are entitled to but they just dont "

Why are male soldiers uncontrollable Neanderthals in your mind? Surely they must be able to do the job they're employed to do otherwise they're not very good at their job, are they?

I also don't think you can say that women aren't as good soldiers as men when women haven't been able to prove they are as good. You've no evidence.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Personal experience is my evidence . Youve interpurated my words as sexual were its not necessarly the case . If a guy your working with is moaning hes hurt or sore you just tell him to shut it and man up when a women does it guys make a bit more of a fuss hence they are a distraction

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Personal experience is my evidence . Youve interpurated my words as sexual were its not necessarly the case . If a guy your working with is moaning hes hurt or sore you just tell him to shut it and man up when a women does it guys make a bit more of a fuss hence they are a distraction "

Isn't that your issue though as opposed to the female? Perhaps you need to manage yourself better if you can't cope around women.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Dont get me wrong it could well be a male issue but that doesnt change the fact they would be and are a distraction and that is the last thing you need on "frontline" hence why women shouldnt be there

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Dont get me wrong it could well be a male issue but that doesnt change the fact they would be and are a distraction and that is the last thing you need on "frontline" hence why women shouldnt be there"

Right. So women can't do something as men can't control themselves.

I'm not sure you're making a good point.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Thats not the entire argument but it is part of it and its a point that hasnt even been considered by the goverment or higher ups in the military. The frontline works as it is women would only want in it to prove a point

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By *thwalescplCouple
over a year ago

brecon


"I would say if they have the exact same physical testing and training as men and they do just as well if not better then why not. Being a woman should not be a reason to be held back if you are just as capable. "

And there it is... the reason why women will never be able to serve "equally".

Women in the army have to pass fitness tests, but theirs are at a lower standard than for men, fewer push ups, sit ups and longer run times.

I have served alongside women in the Army, and remain friends with a lot of them, so I've seen first-hand their commitment and abilities, and I don't doubt their ability to do the job they have trained for... until it comes to going 1-on-1 with the enemy.

A section of 8 men... or people.. is only as strong as its weakest link, and if you are going into battle of the kind we have recently seen in Afgan, you need to be 100% confident in the ability of the people backing you up to kill the enemy at close quarters, maybe even hand-to-hand... and thats where my faith in a female soldier would fail.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Utterly ridiculous allowing this. From experience, i do not know many women with the physical attributes to cope with the often harsh realities of the job. Yes i know that a woman passed Royal Marines test... but so did a journalist... they were fit but when things get real, its a whole new ball game, and i know that from experience .

No what's utterly ridiculous is the stupidity of war!.

But if you prefer hard facts, 25% of African militia is made up of children under 11, half of the resistance movements from ww2 were female.

To say that there incapable is a nonsensical argument"

I am not saying that the fitness is an issue but what is an issue is that if we had another Falklands war, woman could not cope. The extreme physcial requirement would mean that most woman would fail....if that happened then the platoon fails and so on and so forth

Re: child soldiers in Africa. It takes no effort to carry or use a weapon but being on the frontline is not about using a weapon, its about everything else.... the child soldiers dont do those bits.

Again neither do the Kurdish women

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"There is a place for equality, I don't think this is it. "

So, you only believe in equality in selective circumstances.......that isn't really equality then is it?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Dont get me wrong it could well be a male issue but that doesnt change the fact they would be and are a distraction and that is the last thing you need on "frontline" hence why women shouldnt be there"

Excellent post, straight from the 1970s.

Just because you got your education from watching On The Buses please don't think everyone did.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Dont get me wrong it could well be a male issue but that doesnt change the fact they would be and are a distraction and that is the last thing you need on "frontline" hence why women shouldnt be there

Right. So women can't do something as men can't control themselves.

I'm not sure you're making a good point. "

I don't buy this women are a distraction thing,

At the end of the day a soldier is there to kill.

Men are better equipped to this end than women as a whole.

The army needs to be bloody hard, it needs to be harder than its enemies, it needs to be stronger, it needs to be fitter and it needs to be nastier.

I know some capable women but, a capable woman is still only as handy as a less than average man.

Am I being sexist when I say this?

I actually have no problem with women being fighter pilots tank drivers commanders and engineers.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Thats not the entire argument but it is part of it and its a point that hasnt even been considered by the goverment or higher ups in the military. The frontline works as it is women would only want in it to prove a point "

That's a dumb and archaic thing to say - you've just dismissed giving women equal rights as them only wanting it to prove a point. I think if you had any right removed from you for being male or any other reason, you'd be upset too. Fortunately for you, you already have the right but you don't seem to understand why it's unfair for you to have it and not females.

Although, having said that, I don't think you should have the right if you can't control yourself and do your job around females.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Personal experience is my evidence . Youve interpurated my words as sexual were its not necessarly the case . If a guy your working with is moaning hes hurt or sore you just tell him to shut it and man up when a women does it guys make a bit more of a fuss hence they are a distraction "

in my experience men moan way more than women over little aches and pains- add on training and soldiers mindset this wont be an issue

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I see no problem with women who can reach the same standards as there contemporaries becoming frontline soldiers.

I don't see it as an issue as long as exceptions are not made and everybody is treated the same.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Dont get me wrong it could well be a male issue but that doesnt change the fact they would be and are a distraction and that is the last thing you need on "frontline" hence why women shouldnt be there

Right. So women can't do something as men can't control themselves.

I'm not sure you're making a good point.

I don't buy this women are a distraction thing,

At the end of the day a soldier is there to kill.

Men are better equipped to this end than women as a whole.

The army needs to be bloody hard, it needs to be harder than its enemies, it needs to be stronger, it needs to be fitter and it needs to be nastier.

I know some capable women but, a capable woman is still only as handy as a less than average man.

Am I being sexist when I say this?

I actually have no problem with women being fighter pilots tank drivers commanders and engineers.

"

Yes, you are being sexist.

If a female passes all combat training, she should be allowed to serve amongst men. I don't know why you're perpetuating women being weaker - if they pass the same fitness tests, they're at the same level physically.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"While I agree women should be allowed there's also the psychological aspect to consider. Male soldiers really don't like to see wounded/dead female comrades it affects their morale and fighting abilities more than people would realise."

Then by working together and normalising it we promote a more egalitarian society.

Men should be equally upset over the wounding and death of their male colleagues as they would their female colleagues.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Well why would a women want to join the infantry if not to prove a point . Geniue question

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Well why would a women want to join the infantry if not to prove a point . Geniue question "

Why would a man want to?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Thats the problem evetyone beong treated the same it doesnt happen women get an unbeleivable easier ride in the military

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Well why would a women want to join the infantry if not to prove a point . Geniue question "

Because they want to do a job that they love.

Which is the reason that all my friends went into the military. Your ambitions don't change because of the dangly bits between your legs.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

you arent gonna cancel out millions of years of evolution and the natural male instinct that has developed through it

just leave it as is

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Fair point couple of screws loose to join infantry

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

My thoughts are, men and women ARE different! They have different skills, abilities and attributes. Surely the best option is not to make everyone 'equal' but to recognise the individual skills and utilise them in the most appropriate way?

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire


"

At the end of the day a soldier is there to kill.

Men are better equipped to this end than women as a whole.

"

sadly the stats for mental health issue's post NI, south Atlantic, 1st, 2nd gulf and Afghanistan don't support that..

whilst recognising that resource issue's and the reluctance with some to discuss mental health will have played a part..

fact remains that for the majority of us war is not a natural thing we enjoy..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Thats the problem evetyone beong treated the same it doesnt happen women get an unbeleivable easier ride in the military"

Why would you believe that women would get an easier ride?

I would have assumed that women would get a much harder time in the military (and friends experiences confirm this) because lots of men don't think they should be there. Like yourself.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Well why would a women want to join the infantry if not to prove a point . Geniue question

Because they want to do a job that they love.

Which is the reason that all my friends went into the military. Your ambitions don't change because of the dangly bits between your legs."

Thats a reason to join the military not the infantry

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"My thoughts are, men and women ARE different! They have different skills, abilities and attributes. Surely the best option is not to make everyone 'equal' but to recognise the individual skills and utilise them in the most appropriate way? "

Then take into consideration that not all women and men are equal.

For instance I scored 98% on the military application exam a few years ago. My ex who got into the military police scored 53%.

I have considerably more emotional rationality than him and more physical fitness. I can run for longer, carry heavier loads than him and I have no qualms about shooting at someone who is shooting at me. He on the other hand was not like me at all.

Who would be more suitable for a combat role? Me or him?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Thats the problem evetyone beong treated the same it doesnt happen women get an unbeleivable easier ride in the military

Why would you believe that women would get an easier ride?

I would have assumed that women would get a much harder time in the military (and friends experiences confirm this) because lots of men don't think they should be there. Like yourself."

Well all i can say is my experoence is women get a much easier ride

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"My thoughts are, men and women ARE different! They have different skills, abilities and attributes. Surely the best option is not to make everyone 'equal' but to recognise the individual skills and utilise them in the most appropriate way? "

I don't think women want to be men, they want to have the same rights as men. Obviously not everyone is suited to the military, but some are. The option shouldn't be restricted.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"

At the end of the day a soldier is there to kill.

Men are better equipped to this end than women as a whole.

sadly the stats for mental health issue's post NI, south Atlantic, 1st, 2nd gulf and Afghanistan don't support that..

whilst recognising that resource issue's and the reluctance with some to discuss mental health will have played a part..

fact remains that for the majority of us war is not a natural thing we enjoy..

"

Physically they are, men are normally bigger and stronger and more aggressive than women.

Maybe women are better equipped psychology to deal with the aftermath of conflict but probably not

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Thats the problem evetyone beong treated the same it doesnt happen women get an unbeleivable easier ride in the military

Why would you believe that women would get an easier ride?

I would have assumed that women would get a much harder time in the military (and friends experiences confirm this) because lots of men don't think they should be there. Like yourself.

Well all i can say is my experoence is women get a much easier ride "

Yes, but your experience also includes men not being able to behave appropriately around women. It's skewed due to your beliefs, and you seem resentful of women.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Thats the problem evetyone beong treated the same it doesnt happen women get an unbeleivable easier ride in the military

Why would you believe that women would get an easier ride?

I would have assumed that women would get a much harder time in the military (and friends experiences confirm this) because lots of men don't think they should be there. Like yourself.

Well all i can say is my experoence is women get a much easier ride "

Women are five times more likely to be sexually assaulted while working in the military than civilians.

Easier ride?

Areas where they might find the career easier than a men will always be countered by areas where they find it harder. So it all balances out in the end.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It might well do but so far i havent seen it

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

men also have nuts that produce testosterone that fuels that aggression you will need when the shit hits the fan on the frontline

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"men also have nuts that produce testosterone that fuels that aggression you will need when the shit hits the fan on the frontline "

The ovaries produce testosterone too.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"men also have nuts that produce testosterone that fuels that aggression you will need when the shit hits the fan on the frontline

The ovaries produce testosterone too. "

men produce 10 times the test women do

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Thats the problem evetyone beong treated the same it doesnt happen women get an unbeleivable easier ride in the military

Why would you believe that women would get an easier ride?

I would have assumed that women would get a much harder time in the military (and friends experiences confirm this) because lots of men don't think they should be there. Like yourself.

Well all i can say is my experoence is women get a much easier ride

Women are five times more likely to be sexually assaulted while working in the military than civilians.

."

So let's get rid of the men altogether and let the ladies do all the fighting

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Thats the problem evetyone beong treated the same it doesnt happen women get an unbeleivable easier ride in the military

Why would you believe that women would get an easier ride?

I would have assumed that women would get a much harder time in the military (and friends experiences confirm this) because lots of men don't think they should be there. Like yourself.

Well all i can say is my experoence is women get a much easier ride

Women are five times more likely to be sexually assaulted while working in the military than civilians.

.

So let's get rid of the men altogether and let the ladies do all the fighting"

Why not just let men and women do the same role instead?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Noooo dont let women fight for the country, guys outnumber women on fabs 10 to 1 as it is dont do anything to reduce the odds of a meet.

Lets start a petition now

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire


"

At the end of the day a soldier is there to kill.

Men are better equipped to this end than women as a whole.

sadly the stats for mental health issue's post NI, south Atlantic, 1st, 2nd gulf and Afghanistan don't support that..

whilst recognising that resource issue's and the reluctance with some to discuss mental health will have played a part..

fact remains that for the majority of us war is not a natural thing we enjoy..

Physically they are, men are normally bigger and stronger and more aggressive than women.

Maybe women are better equipped psychology to deal with the aftermath of conflict but probably not"

the strength issue is an interesting one but there is the issue of how long and at what level troops need to be at the higher levels of physical strength?

adrenaline plays a large part plus stamina is equally important too ..

when I left in 89 as I recall women were not doing some of the roles that they do today, I don't see it that our services across the board have become less effective with the influx of women..

certainly less of them due to cut backs etc..

also worked alongside women at the 'coal face' in a blue light emergency service for over 22 yrs and tbh there is little difference to their capability because they are perceived by some to be 'less strong'..

think there is certainly a case for recognising that there is insecurity with some men as regards to women's roles nowadays in society..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Thats the problem evetyone beong treated the same it doesnt happen women get an unbeleivable easier ride in the military"

Yes like they do in other places of work too.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

the strength issue is an interesting one but there is the issue of how long and at what level troops need to be at the higher levels of physical strength?

adrenaline plays a large part plus stamina is equally important too ..

when I left in 89 as I recall women were not doing some of the roles that they do today, I don't see it that our services across the board have become less effective with the influx of women..

certainly less of them due to cut backs etc..

also worked alongside women at the 'coal face' in a blue light emergency service for over 22 yrs and tbh there is little difference to their capability because they are perceived by some to be 'less strong'..

think there is certainly a case for recognising that there is insecurity with some men as regards to women's roles nowadays in society.."

Not to mention that more and more 'front line' roles aren't actually focussed around hand to hand fighting where strength really matters.

So much front line work is now hearts and minds. And in countries where women can't talk to men, surely it's good to be putting women out there.

Fighting a war isn't only done with guns and punches. We need these women out on patrol in order to reach out to the very people we're trying to help.

War is different to how it was even ten years ago. Front line services have different needs. Women need to fulfil some of those roles for a more efficient and effective force.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Thats the problem evetyone beong treated the same it doesnt happen women get an unbeleivable easier ride in the military

Why would you believe that women would get an easier ride?

I would have assumed that women would get a much harder time in the military (and friends experiences confirm this) because lots of men don't think they should be there. Like yourself.

Well all i can say is my experoence is women get a much easier ride

Women are five times more likely to be sexually assaulted while working in the military than civilians.

.

So let's get rid of the men altogether and let the ladies do all the fighting

Why not just let men and women do the same role instead?"

Horses for courses, i like my soldiers big dumb and hard as f***

As one poster said women are 5 times more likely to be sexually abused in the military than in civilian life. if they can't fight off the advances of thier own side how are they going to deal with the enemy

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"men also have nuts that produce testosterone that fuels that aggression you will need when the shit hits the fan on the frontline "

Have you ever seen a women when someone tries to hurt their kids?

Honestly, I've never seen anyone write such patronising stuff about women!

There's a fair few guys who aren't suitable for infantry either. So what, maybe only one woman every fifty years will be strong and fit enough for infantry, but that's fine. Banning an entire gender from a job is just ridiculous and very, very wrong.

And it's depressing that there's guys who exist who are willing to back up these stupid, inaccurate stereotypes.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Thats the problem evetyone beong treated the same it doesnt happen women get an unbeleivable easier ride in the military

Why would you believe that women would get an easier ride?

I would have assumed that women would get a much harder time in the military (and friends experiences confirm this) because lots of men don't think they should be there. Like yourself.

Well all i can say is my experoence is women get a much easier ride

Women are five times more likely to be sexually assaulted while working in the military than civilians.

.

So let's get rid of the men altogether and let the ladies do all the fighting

Why not just let men and women do the same role instead?

Horses for courses, i like my soldiers big dumb and hard as f***

As one poster said women are 5 times more likely to be sexually abused in the military than in civilian life. if they can't fight off the advances of thier own side how are they going to deal with the enemy "

Are you taking the piss? Fear, insubordination, mental abuse all play a part in rape. Male soldiers get raped too. Jesus.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

As one poster said women are 5 times more likely to be sexually abused in the military than in civilian life. if they can't fight off the advances of thier own side how are they going to deal with the enemy "

Or...

And I know this is controversial...

HOW ABOUT WE TRY MEN NOT RAPING PEOPLE.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"men also have nuts that produce testosterone that fuels that aggression you will need when the shit hits the fan on the frontline

Have you ever seen a women when someone tries to hurt their kids?

Honestly, I've never seen anyone write such patronising stuff about women!

There's a fair few guys who aren't suitable for infantry either. So what, maybe only one woman every fifty years will be strong and fit enough for infantry, but that's fine. Banning an entire gender from a job is just ridiculous and very, very wrong.

And it's depressing that there's guys who exist who are willing to back up these stupid, inaccurate stereotypes."

get a grip

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"men also have nuts that produce testosterone that fuels that aggression you will need when the shit hits the fan on the frontline

Have you ever seen a women when someone tries to hurt their kids?

Honestly, I've never seen anyone write such patronising stuff about women!

There's a fair few guys who aren't suitable for infantry either. So what, maybe only one woman every fifty years will be strong and fit enough for infantry, but that's fine. Banning an entire gender from a job is just ridiculous and very, very wrong.

And it's depressing that there's guys who exist who are willing to back up these stupid, inaccurate stereotypes."

Most men arnt suitable, and that's the point.

It takes resources to select soldiers money time and equipment, do you draw your candidates from a proven pool of resources or do you take a punt that you will get lucky every 50 years or so.

And anyway why the bloody hell would anyone want to be a squaddie, women can be helicopter pilots and engineers. Cannon fodder is the last thing they should be aspiring too

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

being a bit of an old git I can remember when there were very few male nurses, pretty sure that when men started to become qualified and doing that role effectively that the sky didn't fall in..

we as a society have 'progressed' so far in a relatively sort period of time say since before women were 'granted' the vote..

but suppose some will see any progress as a threat whatever the benefits..

hey ho..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"It is nothing to do with equality, men and women are different. A woman has different hygiene problems than a man.

Men also tend to have an instinct to protect a woman in their presence as well.

Both the above were proved in Afgan.

This does not mean women cannot be in the front line but it is not as simple as some like to think.

"

Agree with this.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"While I agree women should be allowed there's also the psychological aspect to consider. Male soldiers really don't like to see wounded/dead female comrades it affects their morale and fighting abilities more than people would realise.

A lot of male soldiers/officers can't deal with the psychological side either - nearly 30% of American soldiers treated at the VA had PTSD. I imagine the real number is significantly higher.

I think implementing equality in this way will help reduce the other problems female military members encounter, such as rape or sexual assault, and the glass ceiling. It doesn't help to treat them as of lesser value rather than equals. "

You misunderstood my post. I wasn't referring to PTSD or other issues. I was referring specifically to wounded/dead female soldiers.

I know first hand of the psychological issues that face serving military personnel face, I've discussed my own issues here a few times.

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By *oveSlutForUseCouple
over a year ago

Brighton

If there is to be true equality, women should have every opportunity, including being shot on the front line.

All for it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"While I agree women should be allowed there's also the psychological aspect to consider. Male soldiers really don't like to see wounded/dead female comrades it affects their morale and fighting abilities more than people would realise.

A lot of male soldiers/officers can't deal with the psychological side either - nearly 30% of American soldiers treated at the VA had PTSD. I imagine the real number is significantly higher.

I think implementing equality in this way will help reduce the other problems female military members encounter, such as rape or sexual assault, and the glass ceiling. It doesn't help to treat them as of lesser value rather than equals.

You misunderstood my post. I wasn't referring to PTSD or other issues. I was referring specifically to wounded/dead female soldiers.

I know first hand of the psychological issues that face serving military personnel face, I've discussed my own issues here a few times."

But that is still prioritising men over women. It's not in progression's interest to hold women back just because a man may potentially get upset. It also irritates me that men would be valued more highly than women in such a way.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 19/12/14 13:46:44]

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By *vsnikkiTV/TS
over a year ago

Limavady

[Removed by poster at 19/12/14 13:46:52]

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By *vsnikkiTV/TS
over a year ago

Limavady


"

As one poster said women are 5 times more likely to be sexually abused in the military than in civilian life. if they can't fight off the advances of thier own side how are they going to deal with the enemy

Or...

And I know this is controversial...

HOW ABOUT WE TRY MEN NOT RAPING PEOPLE."

Why do you think it's controversial? I cant see that it's a good reason why women shouldn't take up the opportunity of infantry service because other roles in the army have a particular sexual abuse rate.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's a great idea. Obviously there will be enemy forces actively looking to rape then kill, rather than just kill, but it's all great progress for the modern woman.

Lets hope it doesn't end up with tales similar to the conflict in Serbia where captured female combatants were having plastic explosive detonators initiated inside their vaginas.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"

As one poster said women are 5 times more likely to be sexually abused in the military than in civilian life. if they can't fight off the advances of thier own side how are they going to deal with the enemy

Or...

And I know this is controversial...

HOW ABOUT WE TRY MEN NOT RAPING PEOPLE.

Why do you think it's controversial? I cant see that it's a good reason why women shouldn't take up the opportunity of infantry service because other roles in the army have a particular sexual abuse rate. "

I think she is suggesting not that women shouldn't donthat role but that men should stop the raping

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's hard enough to see young lads coming home in a coffin, as a country are we really ready to see young women as well..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"It's hard enough to see young lads coming home in a coffin, as a country are we really ready to see young women as well.."

Especially decapitated pregnant ones. This will happen.

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By *vsnikkiTV/TS
over a year ago

Limavady


"

As one poster said women are 5 times more likely to be sexually abused in the military than in civilian life. if they can't fight off the advances of thier own side how are they going to deal with the enemy

Or...

And I know this is controversial...

HOW ABOUT WE TRY MEN NOT RAPING PEOPLE.

Why do you think it's controversial? I cant see that it's a good reason why women shouldn't take up the opportunity of infantry service because other roles in the army have a particular sexual abuse rate.

I think she is suggesting not that women shouldn't donthat role but that men should stop the raping "

Does anyone think that any rape is OK?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 19/12/14 13:54:46]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Does anyone think that any rape is OK?

Rape is a weapon of war.

It is not "ok".

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By *ynecplCouple
over a year ago

Newcastle upon Tyne


"

As one poster said women are 5 times more likely to be sexually abused in the military than in civilian life. if they can't fight off the advances of thier own side how are they going to deal with the enemy

Or...

And I know this is controversial...

HOW ABOUT WE TRY MEN NOT RAPING PEOPLE."

Only works if the side we are fighting are civilised and have signed up to the Geniva Convention last time I checked most of the recent conflicts have not. If they can commit war crimes such as beheadings do you think they are going to start playing far where women are concern.

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By *oconut2Woman
over a year ago

Nether regions of the back of beyond


"I have a niece serving in the army she's has 3 tours of Afghanistan under her belt and had actively campaigned along with thousands of others for the right to be on the front, I'm told this is my job this is what I'm trained to do !!! "

Massive respect to them all, male and female alike

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

As one poster said women are 5 times more likely to be sexually abused in the military than in civilian life. if they can't fight off the advances of thier own side how are they going to deal with the enemy

Or...

And I know this is controversial...

HOW ABOUT WE TRY MEN NOT RAPING PEOPLE.

Only works if the side we are fighting are civilised and have signed up to the Geniva Convention last time I checked most of the recent conflicts have not. If they can commit war crimes such as beheadings do you think they are going to start playing far where women are concern."

Rape is prominent within the army - it's common to be raped by their own.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

As one poster said women are 5 times more likely to be sexually abused in the military than in civilian life. if they can't fight off the advances of thier own side how are they going to deal with the enemy

Or...

And I know this is controversial...

HOW ABOUT WE TRY MEN NOT RAPING PEOPLE.

Only works if the side we are fighting are civilised and have signed up to the Geniva Convention last time I checked most of the recent conflicts have not. If they can commit war crimes such as beheadings do you think they are going to start playing far where women are concern.

Rape is prominent within the army - it's common to be raped by their own. "

you just want your lil victory for equal rights dont you! you dont give a F about the impact it could have

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Rape is prominent within the army - it's common to be raped by their own.

No it isn't.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

As one poster said women are 5 times more likely to be sexually abused in the military than in civilian life. if they can't fight off the advances of thier own side how are they going to deal with the enemy

Or...

And I know this is controversial...

HOW ABOUT WE TRY MEN NOT RAPING PEOPLE.

Only works if the side we are fighting are civilised and have signed up to the Geniva Convention last time I checked most of the recent conflicts have not. If they can commit war crimes such as beheadings do you think they are going to start playing far where women are concern.

Rape is prominent within the army - it's common to be raped by their own.

you just want your lil victory for equal rights dont you! you dont give a F about the impact it could have"

Yes - I do want women to be treated equally, I'm not sure why you don't.

As for the impact, there shouldn't be any. The females will pass the same training and the men should be able to cope with it.

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By *hetalkingstoveMan
over a year ago

London


" you just want your lil victory for equal rights dont you! you dont give a F about the impact it could have"

Of course bad things will happen to women on in war, just like they do to men. But why should women be 'protected' from this if they want to fight?

It's really patronising to women (and unfair to men who are expected to be the fighters).

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By *hetalkingstoveMan
over a year ago

London


"Rape is prominent within the army - it's common to be raped by their own.

No it isn't."

Er - I'm afraid it is. Google 'rape in the armed forces' or similar phrases.

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By *ynecplCouple
over a year ago

Newcastle upon Tyne


"

Rape is prominent within the army - it's common to be raped by their own. "

Ok back that up with some facts please not some lazy headline grabbing journalism.

Rape is no more common in the British army than it is in wider society. Not condoning it and there should be no excuses the full force of the law should be used on perpetrators

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Rape is prominent within the army - it's common to be raped by their own.

No it isn't."

Yes it is. The Freedom of Information request revealed 75 allegations of rape and 150 of sexual assault made between 2011 and 2013. This is only those that had been reported.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Rape is prominent within the army - it's common to be raped by their own.

No it isn't.

Yes it is. The Freedom of Information request revealed 75 allegations of rape and 150 of sexual assault made between 2011 and 2013. This is only those that had been reported. "

So how many were found guilty. What was the percentage of the British Army? And is that figure high enough to be described as "common"?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

i must just be old fashioned

i dont class that as a bad thing though

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By *ynecplCouple
over a year ago

Newcastle upon Tyne


"Yes it is. The Freedom of Information request revealed 75 allegations of rape and 150 of sexual assault made between 2011 and 2013. This is only those that had been reported. "

All that shows is that rape happens in the army as it does else where.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Rape is prominent within the army - it's common to be raped by their own.

No it isn't.

Yes it is. The Freedom of Information request revealed 75 allegations of rape and 150 of sexual assault made between 2011 and 2013. This is only those that had been reported.

So how many were found guilty. What was the percentage of the British Army? And is that figure high enough to be described as "common"?"

Commanding Officers reserve the right to refuse an investigation without external review (leading to minimal repercussions). I don't think being found guilty is the only way of measuring assault/rape.

I don't know what you mean by the British Army thing.

I think so. A report every 4.9 days in one profession does make it seem common and regular.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"

As one poster said women are 5 times more likely to be sexually abused in the military than in civilian life. if they can't fight off the advances of thier own side how are they going to deal with the enemy

Or...

And I know this is controversial...

HOW ABOUT WE TRY MEN NOT RAPING PEOPLE.

Only works if the side we are fighting are civilised and have signed up to the Geniva Convention last time I checked most of the recent conflicts have not. If they can commit war crimes such as beheadings do you think they are going to start playing far where women are concern.

Rape is prominent within the army - it's common to be raped by their own.

you just want your lil victory for equal rights dont you! you dont give a F about the impact it could have

Yes - I do want women to be treated equally, I'm not sure why you don't.

As for the impact, there shouldn't be any. The females will pass the same training and the men should be able to cope with it. "

This would be true, but the women don't have to pass the same requirements as men.

Equality should mean just that. This is the standard and it shouldn't matter if you have balls or boobies. Don't make it easier for women to pass, cos that's not going to help things with the manure hits the fan and her mates are relying on her.

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By *vsnikkiTV/TS
over a year ago

Limavady


"Rape is prominent within the army - it's common to be raped by their own.

No it isn't.

Yes it is. The Freedom of Information request revealed 75 allegations of rape and 150 of sexual assault made between 2011 and 2013. This is only those that had been reported. "

I'd be amazed if it wasn't a higher percentage than the general population. The army is largely young aggressive males. I have never heard any soldier condone rape or think it should not be punished.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Yes it is. The Freedom of Information request revealed 75 allegations of rape and 150 of sexual assault made between 2011 and 2013. This is only those that had been reported.

All that shows is that rape happens in the army as it does else where. "

It also shows highly concentrated within the army. Plus the fact that the British Army chose to keep over 20 sex offenders employed is pretty bad too.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Rape is prominent within the army - it's common to be raped by their own.

No it isn't.

Yes it is. The Freedom of Information request revealed 75 allegations of rape and 150 of sexual assault made between 2011 and 2013. This is only those that had been reported.

I'd be amazed if it wasn't a higher percentage than the general population. The army is largely young aggressive males. I have never heard any soldier condone rape or think it should not be punished. "

I think so too, there's hundreds of stories of soldiers who were discouraged from making a report with their COs in the news, plus documentaries on the subject. It's not just females though, I know my brother has overseen cases of assault on male soldiers.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Rape is prominent within the army - it's common to be raped by their own.

No it isn't.

Yes it is. The Freedom of Information request revealed 75 allegations of rape and 150 of sexual assault made between 2011 and 2013. This is only those that had been reported.

So how many were found guilty. What was the percentage of the British Army? And is that figure high enough to be described as "common"?

Commanding Officers reserve the right to refuse an investigation without external review (leading to minimal repercussions). I don't think being found guilty is the only way of measuring assault/rape.

I don't know what you mean by the British Army thing.

I think so. A report every 4.9 days in one profession does make it seem common and regular. "

So you don't know. But you think it's common. Excellent.

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By *ynecplCouple
over a year ago

Newcastle upon Tyne


"Commanding Officers reserve the right to refuse an investigation without external review (leading to minimal repercussions). I don't think being found guilty is the only way of measuring assault/rape?

I think so. A report every 4.9 days in one profession does make it seem common and regular. "

Do you have stats for any other large organisation such as the NHS to compare it to?

In this day and age a Commanding Officer would be extremely brave/foolish to refuse initiate an investigation after an allegation of rape.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Rape is prominent within the army - it's common to be raped by their own.

No it isn't.

Yes it is. The Freedom of Information request revealed 75 allegations of rape and 150 of sexual assault made between 2011 and 2013. This is only those that had been reported.

So how many were found guilty. What was the percentage of the British Army? And is that figure high enough to be described as "common"?

Commanding Officers reserve the right to refuse an investigation without external review (leading to minimal repercussions). I don't think being found guilty is the only way of measuring assault/rape.

I don't know what you mean by the British Army thing.

I think so. A report every 4.9 days in one profession does make it seem common and regular.

So you don't know. But you think it's common. Excellent."

You're arguing something that's subjective. To me, that is common and a high number of reports. To you, it may be a minimal or sporadic though. I know if I were to receive reports of someone being assaulted every 5 days, I'd start to think it's prevalent and a big problem.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Google Medic Chantelle Taylor, she was the first female British soldier to shoot a member of the taliban in front-line combat. Not that they are on the front-line, oh no not much.....

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By *ynecplCouple
over a year ago

Newcastle upon Tyne

All sexual offences are dealt with by the civilian police and civil law. A jail sentence or even a suspended sentence will result in immediate dismissal from the Army therefore for the army to have kept 20 sexual offenders on as you claim suggest that there is more to the story than just rape.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

You're arguing something that's subjective. To me, that is common and a high number of reports. To you, it may be a minimal or sporadic though. I know if I were to receive reports of someone being assaulted every 5 days, I'd start to think it's prevalent and a big problem. "

You're arguing that your opinion is fact, I'm saying it isn't.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Commanding Officers reserve the right to refuse an investigation without external review (leading to minimal repercussions). I don't think being found guilty is the only way of measuring assault/rape?

I think so. A report every 4.9 days in one profession does make it seem common and regular.

Do you have stats for any other large organisation such as the NHS to compare it to?

In this day and age a Commanding Officer would be extremely brave/foolish to refuse initiate an investigation after an allegation of rape."

No, I don't. Those weren't my reports - it's what the government has published. I don't know why you need a comparison of it to other professions anyway, a sexual assault every 5 days is bad no matter what you compare it against.

Brave? I'm not sure that's the correct term to use. It's well reported by the BBC, the Guardian, the Independent and several other media outlets that allegations are discouraged or not investigated properly (eg Anne-Marie Ellement).

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Thats the problem evetyone beong treated the same it doesnt happen women get an unbeleivable easier ride in the military"

dont think so -

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By *B9 QueenWoman
over a year ago

Over the rainbow, under the bridge

The history of women fighting in war goes back for millenia. I don't see the big deal.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"All sexual offences are dealt with by the civilian police and civil law. A jail sentence or even a suspended sentence will result in immediate dismissal from the Army therefore for the army to have kept 20 sexual offenders on as you claim suggest that there is more to the story than just rape."

A registered sex offender will undergo a risk assessment, that's all.

Here's one report on the 20 offenders:

http://www.heraldscotland.com/mobile/news/home-news/20-serving-british-soldiers-on-the-sex-offenders-register.20981172

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

You're arguing something that's subjective. To me, that is common and a high number of reports. To you, it may be a minimal or sporadic though. I know if I were to receive reports of someone being assaulted every 5 days, I'd start to think it's prevalent and a big problem.

You're arguing that your opinion is fact, I'm saying it isn't."

What have I said that isn't fact? I've supported absolutely everything with published reports.

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By *ynecplCouple
over a year ago

Newcastle upon Tyne


"Brave? I'm not sure that's the correct term to use. It's well reported by the BBC, the Guardian, the Independent and several other media outlets that allegations are discouraged or not investigated properly (eg Anne-Marie Ellement). "

Exactly my point so you can't say the army is rife with rapist as you are not comparing it to anything. One rape is one rape too many but they happen in all walks of society. Oh and for the record one of those reported rapes was by a female on another female so make of that what you will.

I used brave linked with foolish to quantify it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Guess it must be true. It's in a newspaper.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Brave? I'm not sure that's the correct term to use. It's well reported by the BBC, the Guardian, the Independent and several other media outlets that allegations are discouraged or not investigated properly (eg Anne-Marie Ellement).

Exactly my point so you can't say the army is rife with rapist as you are not comparing it to anything. One rape is one rape too many but they happen in all walks of society. Oh and for the record one of those reported rapes was by a female on another female so make of that what you will.

I used brave linked with foolish to quantify it."

It's not a gender specific thing. I don't know why it needs to be compared - do you not think an assault report every 5 days makes it a high number...?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Guess it must be true. It's in a newspaper."

The MOD's spokesperson announced it on Channel 4 News. Hardly a conspiracy theory.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Guess it must be true. It's in a newspaper.

The MOD's spokesperson announced it on Channel 4 News. Hardly a conspiracy theory. "

Ok, so what's your point?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Guess it must be true. It's in a newspaper.

The MOD's spokesperson announced it on Channel 4 News. Hardly a conspiracy theory.

Ok, so what's your point?"

That it is true and shouldn't be dismissed as yellow journalism.

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By *ynecplCouple
over a year ago

Newcastle upon Tyne


"Brave? I'm not sure that's the correct term to use. It's well reported by the BBC, the Guardian, the Independent and several other media outlets that allegations are discouraged or not investigated properly (eg Anne-Marie Ellement).

Exactly my point so you can't say the army is rife with rapist as you are not comparing it to anything. One rape is one rape too many but they happen in all walks of society. Oh and for the record one of those reported rapes was by a female on another female so make of that what you will.

I used brave linked with foolish to quantify it.

It's not a gender specific thing. I don't know why it needs to be compared - do you not think an assault report every 5 days makes it a high number...?"

It needs to compared because you are making sweeping statements about it being high and the army being full of rapists.

As said earlier one rape is one too many

See middle

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Guess it must be true. It's in a newspaper.

The MOD's spokesperson announced it on Channel 4 News. Hardly a conspiracy theory.

Ok, so what's your point?

That it is true and shouldn't be dismissed as yellow journalism. "

And do you think that women should serve on the frontline?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Guess it must be true. It's in a newspaper.

The MOD's spokesperson announced it on Channel 4 News. Hardly a conspiracy theory.

Ok, so what's your point?

That it is true and shouldn't be dismissed as yellow journalism.

And do you think that women should serve on the frontline?"

Yes.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Good.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire


" you can't say the army is rife with rapist

It needs to compared because you are making sweeping statements about it being high and the army being full of rapists.

As said earlier one rape is one too many

"

to be fair the person your quoting hasn't used any of those terms or said the Army is full of rapists..

and from what I've seen all the claims have been backed up..

agree as i'm sure we all do that rape is a vile act regardless of whom the assailant or victim is..

the military like all organisations that 'police' themselves has had over the years its fair share of justified scrutiny and criticism into investigation's into its own personnel..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Brave? I'm not sure that's the correct term to use. It's well reported by the BBC, the Guardian, the Independent and several other media outlets that allegations are discouraged or not investigated properly (eg Anne-Marie Ellement).

Exactly my point so you can't say the army is rife with rapist as you are not comparing it to anything. One rape is one rape too many but they happen in all walks of society. Oh and for the record one of those reported rapes was by a female on another female so make of that what you will.

I used brave linked with foolish to quantify it.

It's not a gender specific thing. I don't know why it needs to be compared - do you not think an assault report every 5 days makes it a high number...?

It needs to compared because you are making sweeping statements about it being high and the army being full of rapists.

As said earlier one rape is one too many

See middle"

There were around 225 reports of assault in the British Army, and 15,670 reports by civilians within the same time period.

This would equate to 154 in every 100,000 people in the army being assaulted and 24 in every 100,000 in the general population.

Hopefully that's enough to satisfy you.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

There's bound to be a higher rape rate in the military it's a highly aggressive industry, that's male dominated and you could have your legs blown off at any moment!

Comparing it to other industries where your sitting in an office in London and having a nice salad for lunch is ludicrous.

If alcohol brings out the violence in people then sending them off with a gun and a bunch of explosives and the threat of having your head cut off with a blunt penknife, will bring out the bad points in anyone regardless of what sex they are!.

I seem to remember a certain female officer at Abu graib who liked striping men naked and taking pictures of them in homosexual positions.

Sexual aggression is not confined to the male of any species.

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