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"So would an air bubble....." Would you recommend the same treatment for alcoholics? After all they cost the country a lot more in wrecked lives, hospital and medical bills, policing ect | |||
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"So would an air bubble..... Would you recommend the same treatment for alcoholics? After all they cost the country a lot more in wrecked lives, hospital and medical bills, policing ect" dear god please lets not get onto alcholics again, took me weeks to get over the last thread lmao  | |||
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"So would an air bubble..... Would you recommend the same treatment for alcoholics? After all they cost the country a lot more in wrecked lives, hospital and medical bills, policing ect" I don't think air bubbles in alcohol would help reduce alcoholism. If anything, it might even encourage it  | |||
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"So would an air bubble..... Would you recommend the same treatment for alcoholics? After all they cost the country a lot more in wrecked lives, hospital and medical bills, policing ect dear god please lets not get onto alcholics again, took me weeks to get over the last thread lmao "How about Alcie-junkies as portrayed by whats his face from eastemer street  | |||
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"So would an air bubble..... Would you recommend the same treatment for alcoholics? After all they cost the country a lot more in wrecked lives, hospital and medical bills, policing ect" Already here.....it's called Lager and sparkling wine  | |||
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"I don't think air bubbles in alcohol would help reduce alcoholism. If anything, it might even encourage it "Well maybe bubbles and chillers should be banned! Flat warm Larger enough to put everyone off for life | |||
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"Its called Naloxone and it works really quickly to reverse the effects of an overdose Its not just for heroin users,there are a lot of people that use opiate based drugs for loads of different reasons and they can just as easily overdose when they're having a really bad day of pain While I would'nt want to get into the whole junkies don't deserve the help mentality I can see the benfits from a money saving point of view for the NHS " You beat me to it..... | |||
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"cheers i couldnt remember the name of it! when we reach the stage we decide who is deserving and who is undeserving for treatment on the nhs then im out of the country! it would end up treatment only available to white middle class men x"Aged between 30 and 30 1/2 if you're out of that range then sod off | |||
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"cheers i couldnt remember the name of it! when we reach the stage we decide who is deserving and who is undeserving for treatment on the nhs then im out of the country! it would end up treatment only available to white middle class men x
Aged between 30 and 30 1/2 if you're out of that range then sod off "nah it would be 50 after that you on the scrap heap anyway!! x | |||
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"Nice to see there is still plenty of sympathy and caring for people with less self-control than others "Amazing the number of 'open minded' people that are almost far right when in comes to these things. I remember a while back someone celebrating the decision to put a teenage girl to death because she was used as a drugs mule. Sympathy doesn't go as far as those who have broken the law for some. | |||
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"cheers i couldnt remember the name of it! when we reach the stage we decide who is deserving and who is undeserving for treatment on the nhs then im out of the country! it would end up treatment only available to white middle class men x
Aged between 30 and 30 1/2 if you're out of that range then sod off
nah it would be 50 after that you on the scrap heap anyway!! x" | |||
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"its an illness..so who r we 2 judge xx" Oh well, that's ok then, it's an illness, I'll leave my window open so that the sick man doesn't hurt himself breaking in to nick my stereo for Skag money. Do what the fuck you like, and don't judge others, is that what you are saying? How about thieving? Or raping old ladies? Kiddy fiddling, or throwing puppies off motorway bridges? Are they illnesses too, because you'd have to be sick to do them, surely? Should we be sympathetic and not judge? Or should we stamp these things out, so that the majority of society can get on with life, as we have evolved to call "normal"? Smack isn't an illness, it's a lifestyle choice. Anyone who is stupid enough to give it a try, well, they deserve no sympathy, no more than if I decide to stick my knob in a blender. The effects are well-documented, there's no question that it might not be quite as bad as it's made out, it's going to fuck you up. No-one ends up a smack-head because they weren't told the dangers. The difference between it and alcohol is that out of 100 people who enjoy alcohol responsibly, only a handful will screw their life (and those of their families) up royally because of it. With smack, it's the other way round, it's a handful who decide it's not for them, give it up, get on with life. I'm not heartless with regard to smack-heads, just realistic and un-moved by bleating apologists, having had to deal with it close to home. My best mate from school, my sidekick, a band-member decided he was going to give it a go, despite being an educated, intelligent man. Being a young rock band, we were no angels, we'd snorted half of Peru, but no-one else was stupid enough to try Heroin, or anything else IV. Well, the result was, we had to leave him behind, we went on to enjoy our time and then to other things. He,on the other hand, flogged his guitars for a few quid, went on to OD'd girlfriends (two, dead), lost his house, his mother lost her's, both broke, Hepatitis, ulcerated veins etc etc. In fact I didn't leave him behind, because he is my friend, and I love him as such, I've been out of my way to try to save him from himself when he has called out for help. I've taken him to Rehab several times, and brought him back days later when he discharged himself (incredibly, drug users aren't sectioned, they can walk at any time when they feel it is too much for them. I believe it goes on the stats as another drug user finishing treatment, a big tick, despite the fact they have just walked out and gone back to score. Anorexics, however, are sectioned!) I've supported him, and his late mother, when times were hard, and dare say I will continue to when absolutely necessary, despite being told by drug specialists, experts, that is the wrong thing to do - junkies have to hit absolute rock bottom before they want to clean up, helping them just lets them off the hook, they take advantage because you always bail them out. Time has educated me that those experts weren't the pricks I thought they were, they were spot on. It's a harsh lesson to learn though. I've offered to get him off the junk, but it would be done MY way, he has gracefully refused, possibly because I've made no secret that I'd lock him in my warehouse, push his food under the door, hose him down once a day, and maybe get the rubber truncheon out for a brisk beating every now and again if necessary. No meds, no pandering, no compassion, but I guarantee he'd get off it. As it stands, he gets clean of the junk, but goes back to the same "mates" and lifestyle, so hits the needle again within hours. Naltrexone is great, but you have to be clean first before it will work properly. It made him sick as a dog, but that was because the hospital gave it to him too quickly, before the smack was out of his system. Result? He stopped taking it and went back to the junk. The health service as it is doesn't have the resources or time to ensure large numbers of junkies are clean enough to take Naltrexone, they will end up doing half a job, which as we all know is not worth doing. Do it properly, or not at all. I also imagine there will be consent issues somewhere down the line where junkies have implants and then get sick, because they can't stop the treatment right away. Where do the sympathisers stand then? Do you FORCE them to continue, or shut your ears to their discomfort, or do you whip the implant out, it's only money after all, eh? My friend knows full well that I'd truck him and his mates out to the woods to a limepit if I could, for the good of society at large, and he accepts that. He also shrugs his shoulders when I'm in tears at the state he is in, he never makes excuses, he simply accepts that it was his choice to go down this road, with all the associated shit. Shame that me and the other law-abiding tax-payers are having to pay for his freedom of choice, but then who's the mug, me or him? Phew, sorry for the War & Peace length post, but it's something (yep, another thing) I feel strongly about!! | |||
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" The difference between it and alcohol is that out of 100 people who enjoy alcohol responsibly, only a handful will screw their life (and those of their families) up royally because of it. With smack, it's the other way round, it's a handful who decide it's not for them, give it up, get on with life. " Firstly let me apologies for cutting so much of your post and say I am sorry about your friend but you need to realize that drug addicts only have one friend and that is their next fix! However having said that I feel that your comments about alcohol are beyond belief. You talk about junkies stealing your things and the damage it has on families and then dismiss the damage done by alcohol. How many people are killed or injured every year by d*unk drivers? How many people are attacked every day by d*unks in and outside our pubs? My god d*unkenness has spawned its own sub genre of reality TV and is know everywhere we go as the British disease. I think you need to take your beer goggles off and look at the real levels of damage and remember that most of the damage done by illegal drugs is due to their prohibition that is there mainly due to decades of propaganda, lobbying and patronization of our politicians by the alcohol and tobacco industries. | |||
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"Firstly let me apologies for cutting so much of your post and say I am sorry about your friend but you need to realize that drug addicts only have one friend and that is their next fix! However having said that I feel that your comments about alcohol are beyond belief. You talk about junkies stealing your things and the damage it has on families and then dismiss the damage done by alcohol. How many people are killed or injured every year by d*unk drivers? How many people are attacked every day by d*unks in and outside our pubs? My god d*unkenness has spawned its own sub genre of reality TV and is know everywhere we go as the British disease. I think you need to take your beer goggles off and look at the real levels of damage and remember that most of the damage done by illegal drugs is due to their prohibition that is there mainly due to decades of propaganda, lobbying and patronization of our politicians by the alcohol and tobacco industries." Nope, no beer goggles here, I wasn't meaning to dismiss the damage caused by alcohol, but there's a vast difference between d*unken-ness or alcohol related incidents and chronic alcoholism. I accept the damage caused by people who have consumed alcohol is vast, but as you say, it's seen as a "British disease". Why do other countries not have the same problems? Because it is as much a social issue as it about the physiological effects of alcohol consumption, that's why. I know that in the Re-hab unit my friend visits, there are 14 beds, 10 are anorexics, 2 are drug addicts, and the other 2 are alcoholics, they can't have any differing ratios in at any time. The alcoholics are the dangerous ones, they rant, rave and get physically abusive. When they kick off (wilfully or otherwise), alarm bells go off and it's all hands on deck. They hallucinate and keep the ward awake at night battling their demons (literally, sometimes). The smackheads hurt and climb the walls, but aren't possessed by superhuman strength, they are easy to deal with compared to the alcoholics, who are treated very warily by the nurses because of the chance of sustaining real injuries whilst trying to treat them. However, all that said, the vast majority of alcohol users do not become slaves to their choice, as do the junkies, for whom it is chronic usage. Like you say, the only thing they are interested in is the next hit, not many people are consumed with just one thought, their next sup of sauce. I agree with you to some extent about the prohibition, the rate of crime related to drugs is so massive due to junkies desperate to get money for a fix. But, would that change if they could buy it from the chemist? I doubt it, they'd still be skint and need to steal to get cash. There will be some exceptions, I know of one man who has been a heroin user (as opposed to a smack-head) for nearly 30 years, holds down a job and seems to live a normal-ish life, you wouldn't know about his habit. How, I have no idea, but he is a very rare example.Even if you gave free drugs and needles out, the majority would be good for absolutely nothing, apart from taking more drugs. That benefits society in absolutely no way, rather is detrimental as we take on the burden of their choice. Alas, despite all the dangers of alcohol, the genie is out of the bottle now (and, he'sh yer besht mate. No, really....ishh true....), it is accepted in society and we just have to live with it, lest we embark on disastrous prohibition campaigns like the US in the 20's, which greatly benefitted organised crime. Unless we are going to totally turn our society upside down, illegal drugs need to stay illegal. Personally, I think the solution is zero tolerance to the drugs problem, they are prohibited for good reason, and nothing to do with tobacco or alcohol corporations. The Opium Wars with China were a great example of how legalised trade in narcotics cripples a society. Also, education, frank and bullshit-free, for kids, about the real effects of IV use, amongst other things. Simply telling them it is bad just appeals to the rebellious ones. Showing them somone lying in his own shit with ulcerated veins might have more impact. Oh, we could always adopt Sharia Law, then we'd curb the drink issue too! Yay! | |||
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"ok what would u do with them ?? life is what u make it if having smack sitting about smashed out your head is life. i dont want it .......... " hi Pam, I have an answer, legalize drugs and prostitution (the 2 are linked). Its simple and it will remove income streams and control over vulnerable people from organized crime. Then we can educate and help those that need it without first pushing them into the hands of unscrupulous criminals. | |||
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"I knew of a girl...pimped out by her mother from 11 (her brother from 9). The mother then gave them heroin to 'numb' them to what was happening..... There was NO choice in their addiction. We cannot stop and ask every junky or any other kind of addict why they started..before we treat them or offer help. I dont like the situation or the things that can happen, but i do have human compassion and sympathy. Hence i believe we should at the very least offer emergency treatment..then ask questions after. Not everyone makes the right decisions and not everyone had options. Lots of things needs to change and wayyyy too many to get into it here. Saying all of that..if anyone ever gave my kids anything of that nature I would hunt them down and no amount of emergency care in the world would save them from me vol xx" so what u saying it u knew that she was being pimped out and given smack and u did nothing | |||
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"I knew of a girl...pimped out by her mother from 11 (her brother from 9). The mother then gave them heroin to 'numb' them to what was happening..... There was NO choice in their addiction. We cannot stop and ask every junky or any other kind of addict why they started..before we treat them or offer help. I dont like the situation or the things that can happen, but i do have human compassion and sympathy. Hence i believe we should at the very least offer emergency treatment..then ask questions after. Not everyone makes the right decisions and not everyone had options. Lots of things needs to change and wayyyy too many to get into it here. Saying all of that..if anyone ever gave my kids anything of that nature I would hunt them down and no amount of emergency care in the world would save them from me vol xx so what u saying it u knew that she was being pimped out and given smack and u did nothing " bit of a very rude assumption there??? she may have knew them through work or through other reasons not just when they were children?? | |||
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"i cant believe this, you two should run for goverment,lots of ideas and then just argue, alcohol and drugs are addictions,you have to have an addictive personality for it to really take hold of you to the extent of losing house family etc, i know because i was an addict,not heroine il sadd but close, the only way i got off it was by signing myself in to a hospital for a month and then locking myself in a room for 2 months after,it was 6months before i even went out my front door,even then that was just to get in a car to go to the doctor, medication will work for alcos and druggies but ONLY if the person is ready,you cannot force anyone to give an addiction up,full stop" Well, congratulations for having the will-power to clean up, I sincerely hope you stay that way. Your comment about having to have an addictive personality to lose everything is way off. Yes, there are people like that, who will be vulnerable to drink, drugs or gambling, whatever, but Heroin is far more than that, it envelopes people. Their whole life revolves around scoring. They associate with other users, they share junk, they all know each other, it's not recreational, it's a lifestyle. My friend can spot a smack-head a mile away, he can go into a strange town, walk about for a bit and score within 15 minutes, he just knows "the look". I've been with him when he's done it and been astounded that he can walk up to a total stranger, seemingly an ordinary man on the street, and score a bag of H, just like that. I wouldn't know where to start, and I'm definitely not naiive, I'm a man of the world. So, when he comes out of Re-hab, physically clean (and that doesn't take long, it's only a couple of weeks of sweats and cramps at the most), what happens? His "mates" congregate, they cook up, and bang, he's back on Smack, just like that. He has spent years conniving, dealing, stealing, cheating and sneaking about with these people, all interested in a bag of junk, nothing else, he has no other life. The psychological effect of that lifestyle takes years to erase, and in that time, the ex-junkie only needs to bump into old associates, or see "the look", and they are sunk again. Correct, they won't give up until they want to, but by then they have nothing else left in life anyway. It's not about forcing anyone off the stuff, it's about why anyone would be so stupid in the first place, given the high, almost inevitable probability it will be disastrous for them. | |||
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" hi Pam, I have an answer, legalize drugs and prostitution (the 2 are linked). " But prostitution isn't illegal! | |||
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"Hi again wolf, I would agree with nearly everything you say bar your comments on prohibition of narcotics, the reason I say this has been highlighted by you when you mentioned 1920s USA which is a perfect example of what happens when anything is prohibited. I would further point out that the growth of the drugs trade and all its associated problems has been and must therefore be as a result of the 1965DDA and the 1971 misuse of drugs act." Possibly, but then there are other factors too, such as our generally more permissive attitude to traditional "vices", along with our more affluent, recreational lifestyle and disposable income. (Which, if I'm honest, I'm quite fond of. I don't want to go to work dahn t'pit from dawn till dusk just to survive in my hovel) | |||
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"Now this is what I don’t get, all this crap about recreational drugs being so bad while at the same time, alcohol as a recreation drug is fine!!! I can’t imagine that anyone sets out with the intention of becoming addicted to anything, some people do and some don’t but how are you going to find out unless you try? Maybe we shouldn’t try anything ‘just in case’ it becomes an addiction! " The thread wasn't about recreational drugs per se, it was about Heroin in particular. I know that slamming my balls in a car door would be a fucking stupid thing to do, the evidence points to it being pretty painful, and I was told as a kid not to get my fingers trapped in there, let alone my balls. That'll do for me. I don't need to try it to see if I was lied to. | |||
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"Now this is what I don’t get, all this crap about recreational drugs being so bad while at the same time, alcohol as a recreation drug is fine!!! " To be fair the thread was about Heroin, which is hardly seen as a recreational drug. | |||
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"I knew of a girl...pimped out by her mother from 11 (her brother from 9). The mother then gave them heroin to 'numb' them to what was happening..... There was NO choice in their addiction. We cannot stop and ask every junky or any other kind of addict why they started..before we treat them or offer help. I dont like the situation or the things that can happen, but i do have human compassion and sympathy. Hence i believe we should at the very least offer emergency treatment..then ask questions after. Not everyone makes the right decisions and not everyone had options. Lots of things needs to change and wayyyy too many to get into it here. Saying all of that..if anyone ever gave my kids anything of that nature I would hunt them down and no amount of emergency care in the world would save them from me vol xx so what u saying it u knew that she was being pimped out and given smack and u did nothing " read the tense used...'i knew of'..not i know..or knew the girl etc... It was a situation i was made aware of once the girl was 18, a junkie and almost dead.. The situation only came to light once the girl was an adult and saught help for her addiction....an addiction that was NOT of her choosing. Making assumptions like this is foolish..cos when you assume you make an ass out of u and me
vol
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