FabSwingers.com forum: fate.. believe or not?

By *litterbabe OP Woman
over a year ago

hiding from cock pics.

I believe in fate... It really seems to guide me and sometimes sort things out in ways I never expected....

Does fate guide you and does that thought comfort you if something doesn't go as well as you expected....or is it just coincidences?

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By *organ and rob zombieCouple
over a year ago

bradford

No I agree, fate plays a big part

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 16/12/14 10:16:26]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I believe in fate, some things that have happened this year weren't just pure luck....believing in fate gives me comfort

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Fate Guide's us all if you believe it or not .....

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By *ire_bladeMan
over a year ago

Manchester

I believe in fate I just wish it wouldn't keep fucking things up

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By *izzy RascallMan
over a year ago

Cardiff

Yeah.

I believe in fate and myself and thats just about it.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

I think we all need to believe that theres a purpose or a higher power guiding us (nearly all of us anyway) and that life isn't just a random series of events culminating in oblivion.

However the longer I live the more difficult I find it to believe that if this is so it is in any way benign.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Fate Guide's us all if you believe it or not ....."

You might believe that but that doesnt make it fact so to say if you believe it or not is just arrogance.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

"Fate Guide's us all if you believe it or not ....."

Fate doesn't guide us, it just is.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Fate Guide's us all if you believe it or not ....."

Erm...not sure how you can come to that conclusion. Thats saying all non believers are wrong. Where is your evidence?

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By *isscheekychopsWoman
over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

I did...not any more

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I wonder if people who believe in fate would feel so resolutely if they were challenged to explain the concept to a dying child....

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By *obbytupperMan
over a year ago

Menston near Ilkley

Fate decided long ago that I would never have lots of money. It's working well so far. However I have enough and have loads of fun and good health so I'm grateful for that.

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By *emmefataleWoman
over a year ago

dirtybigbadsgirlville

God no, if I thought our lives were all mapped out for us, I would pack it in now.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

Life is hard then you die is about the sum total of it. By various ways and means some of us have it a great deal easier than others and if you want to put that down to fate or god or whatever then great.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I believe in cause and effect,,,, I believe in random chance…. I believe in coincidence …I believe in the concept of accountability for our actions and inactions,

But I certainly don’t have such a loose grip on reality that need to explain the outcome of a chain of events as the product of some pre-ordained conclusion determined by fate..

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By *inaTitzTV/TS
over a year ago

Titz Towers, North Notts

No, you make your own way in life, using the tools to hand.

The more I prepare for something, the better I do. No supernatural or guiding power involved or even needed.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I so believe in it to a degree, when shit things happen to good people though I sometimes question it. Back in august my best friends step son died in a car crash aged 23, lovely boy, good career ahead of him, was it fates plan for him to die young? Inquest said inexperienced driver and horrendous weather conditions. Sometimes things are cruel.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think our choices create our destiny not fate.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If the universe was created by a Big Bang and if Einstein was correct and the universe is deterministic...

...Then fate absolutely exists. And I don't really see how you could argue otherwise.

Doesn't mean fate is benign or exists for your benefit, it just is.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If the universe was created by a Big Bang and if Einstein was correct and the universe is deterministic...

...Then fate absolutely exists. And I don't really see how you could argue otherwise.

Doesn't mean fate is benign or exists for your benefit, it just is.

"
ok then if that is the case, what things are determined by fate?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If the universe was created by a Big Bang and if Einstein was correct and the universe is deterministic...

...Then fate absolutely exists. And I don't really see how you could argue otherwise.

Doesn't mean fate is benign or exists for your benefit, it just is.

ok then if that is the case, what things are determined by fate? "

If that is the case...everything.

Which is what Einstein meant when he said 'God does not play dice', as the laws of physics are absolutely fixed and are not immutable, it follows that everything going back to the Big Bang is predetermined.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I believe in fate 100% but also think ourselves have a small helping hand in the ultimate outcome with some of our decisions

Mrs xx

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I believe in fate 100% but also think ourselves have a small helping hand in the ultimate outcome with some of our decisions

Mrs xx"

That goes without saying...but those small helping hands are still predetermined.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If the universe was created by a Big Bang and if Einstein was correct and the universe is deterministic...

...Then fate absolutely exists. And I don't really see how you could argue otherwise.

Doesn't mean fate is benign or exists for your benefit, it just is.

ok then if that is the case, what things are determined by fate?

If that is the case...everything.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think there are interactions between people and cause and effect.

Both of those things make different random elements coincide so it can feel like 'fate' or that something was destined to happen.

Similar to luck really. I believe that you make your own click through your interactions with other people. Luck doesn't make itself.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If the universe was created by a Big Bang and if Einstein was correct and the universe is deterministic...

...Then fate absolutely exists. And I don't really see how you could argue otherwise.

Doesn't mean fate is benign or exists for your benefit, it just is.

ok then if that is the case, what things are determined by fate?

If that is the case...everything.

Yep.

Because the only reason you make x decision is because a particular molecule or atom will be passing through a particular synapse at any given moment, combined with the chemical makeup of your brain at that moment.

Which all goes back to the big bang.

Think of it as one giant atomic game of snooker-you can determine beforehand and after where a ball is going to hit or bounce off using basic triganometry and angles, the same goes for stuff on the atomic level.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I think there are interactions between people and cause and effect.

Both of those things make different random elements coincide so it can feel like 'fate' or that something was destined to happen.

Similar to luck really. I believe that you make your own click through your interactions with other people. Luck doesn't make itself. "

But cause and effect are predetermined.

For example, each action having an equal and opposite reaction.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If the universe was created by a Big Bang and if Einstein was correct and the universe is deterministic...

...Then fate absolutely exists. And I don't really see how you could argue otherwise.

Doesn't mean fate is benign or exists for your benefit, it just is.

ok then if that is the case, what things are determined by fate?

If that is the case...everything.

Yep.

Which all goes back to the big bang.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes and Karma seen it time and time again working ..

“Watch your thoughts, for they become words. Watch your words, for they become actions. Watch your actions, for they become habits. Watch your habits, for they become character. Watch your character, for it becomes your destiny .

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

We're just another animal in the grand scheme of things, except I don't see a scheme or plan that makes things happen for person or any animal. So no fate, as attractive as it may be, Imo.

We do make sense of the world according to our preconceptions, usually ignoring or distorting stuff that doesn't suit them. We're guided on autopilot much of the time, which can enable things ymto suit our plan and beliefs.

We're our creators of fate and ignorers of what doesn't seem like fate. We blame circumstances and others if things are poor or take no notice often.

I don't see magical powers at work though we clearly don't understand everything yet. Better to be actively responsible for whatever comes up than assume it's fate. Chance and coincidence certainly surround us with occurrences that may help like a bonus but there's no magical fairy influencing apart from us all.

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By *rown_cock_edinMan
over a year ago

edinburgh

"Fate Guide's us all if you believe it or not .....

Fate doesn't guide us, it just is."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"We're just another animal in the grand scheme of things, except I don't see a scheme or plan that makes things happen for person or any animal. So no fate, as attractive as it may be, Imo.

We're our creators of fate and ignorers of what doesn't seem like fate. We blame circumstances and others if things are poor or take no notice often.

Nicely put

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"We're just another animal in the grand scheme of things, except I don't see a scheme or plan that makes things happen for person or any animal. So no fate, as attractive as it may be, Imo.

We're our creators of fate and ignorers of what doesn't seem like fate. We blame circumstances and others if things are poor or take no notice often.

Who said anything about magical fairies and who said we weren't just another animal?

If the universe is predetermined, that certainly means there is nothing special about human beings. I think we are as much masters of our own destiny as dung beetles and amoebas are. There is nothing special whatsoever about humans as a species and, in my opinion, to suggest otherwise is merely a relic of the christian narrative.

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By *bbandflowCouple
over a year ago

South Devon

"If the universe was created by a Big Bang and if Einstein was correct and the universe is deterministic...

...Then fate absolutely exists. And I don't really see how you could argue otherwise.

Doesn't mean fate is benign or exists for your benefit, it just is.

And if you don't believe Einstein's 19th century deterministic physics, what then?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If the universe was created by a Big Bang and if Einstein was correct and the universe is deterministic...

...Then fate absolutely exists. And I don't really see how you could argue otherwise.

Doesn't mean fate is benign or exists for your benefit, it just is.

And if you don't believe Einstein's 19th century deterministic physics, what then?"

Which is why I said 'if'.

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By *ediceTV/TS
over a year ago

Wrexham

To say everything is down to fate, is a bit of a kop out, imo.

It negates personal responsibility.

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By *bbandflowCouple
over a year ago

South Devon

"If the universe was created by a Big Bang and if Einstein was correct and the universe is deterministic...

...Then fate absolutely exists. And I don't really see how you could argue otherwise.

Doesn't mean fate is benign or exists for your benefit, it just is.

And if you don't believe Einstein's 19th century deterministic physics, what then?

Which is why I said 'if'."

Well it looks like Alfred got that one wrong bless him!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The problem with fatalism is that it does nothing to encourage people to improve things for themselves or their world. Why bother, when it's all predetermined and there's absolutely nothing you can do to change the outcome?

I don't see how anyone can draw comfort from it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I do agree that even if fate is an actual thing, we should still lead our lives as if it isn't.

After all, we have no way of ever knowing what our fate will be.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

you make your own fate in my book. People who believe in it often give up on perseverance saying there is no point as fate dictates.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The problem with fatalism is that it does nothing to encourage people to improve things for themselves or their world. Why bother, when it's all predetermined and there's absolutely nothing you can do to change the outcome?

I don't see how anyone can draw comfort from it."

If fate exists, it doesn't exist for our benefit.

To want to draw comfort from it implies that it is human-centric when it isn't.

That's like trying to gain comfort out of the fact that gravity is a thing, or electro-magnetism is.

I don't think fate is cruel or benign. It just is.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don't see how anyone can draw comfort from it.

If fate exists, it doesn't exist for our benefit.

To want to draw comfort from it implies that it is human-centric when it isn't.

That's like trying to gain comfort out of the fact that gravity is a thing, or electro-magnetism is.

I don't think fate is cruel or benign. It just is."

I was answering the OP's question about comfort. Though I take issue with your statement 'if fate exists it doesn't exist for our benefit'. You don't and can't know this, though I accept fully that you might believe it.

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By *bbandflowCouple
over a year ago

South Devon

"I do agree that even if fate is an actual thing, we should still lead our lives as if it isn't.

After all, we have no way of ever knowing what our fate will be."

Exactly, and is why what people consider fate is always retrospective,

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By *unky monkeyMan
over a year ago

in the night garden

At every point there are an infinite amount of outcomes and an unlimited amount of time lines a person can travel.

Fate is a superstition that only crops up in hindsight. A justification for acts and to offset responsibility.

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By *risky_MareWoman
over a year ago

...Up on the Downs

I agree with personal choices meaning we 'reap what we sow', but sometimes there does seem to be a kind of 'default tide', an inevitable flow that occurs in spite of all our puny efforts!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"We're just another animal in the grand scheme of things, except I don't see a scheme or plan that makes things happen for person or any animal. So no fate, as attractive as it may be, Imo.

We're our creators of fate and ignorers of what doesn't seem like fate. We blame circumstances and others if things are poor or take no notice often.

Well said

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By *litterbabe OP Woman
over a year ago

hiding from cock pics.

What about the sliding doors type scenarios.

Someone was trying to send me a text in the battery died just as they were about to press send. If they had successfully sent it we never would have met.

it seems like fate could have intervened in that case and we were supposed to meet.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

For those who are interested, there's an interesting (and short!) article in Psychology Today about why people sometimes believe in fate.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/more-mortal/201405/why-we-believe-in-fate-sometimes

'In short, it appears that belief in fate not only helps us make sense of events that have already occurred. It also helps us feel better about the decisions we are struggling to make. This helps reduce the burden of feeling responsible for making the correct choice by making us feel like the choice is really not ours to make.'

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

"What about the sliding doors type scenarios.

Someone was trying to send me a text in the battery died just as they were about to press send. If they had successfully sent it we never would have met.

it seems like fate could have intervened in that case and we were supposed to meet."

If fate has decided the course of our lives what need is there for it to intervene in this way?

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By *arry247Couple
over a year ago

Wakefield

It boils down to whether libertarians are correct or determinism is correct.

If Einstein is correct then the future is determined for us, if he was wrong then it is not.

But consider this:

You have a choice to read this or not if you stop Einstein’s argument is it was pre-determined. But the real question is whether that decision to stop reading a random decision or one caused by prior events.

The libertarian argument would be if time was rewound to the point just before you made the decision to stop reading, it would be open to you to carry on reading but if time was rewound everything in the universe would also be rewound.

You would be in the same mental state as you were when you made the decision with the same desires. To prove life is not predetermined you would have to prove you could then make a different decision than you first one.

But if your mind is in the same state as the previous time then your decision would be the same. If not then you are saying your mental state plays no part in the choices that you make.

If that is your conclusion the fate exists.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"No, you make your own way in life, using the tools to hand.

The more I prepare for something, the better I do. No supernatural or guiding power involved or even needed.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Luck is oppotunity meets preparation.

I more than ever can see that you create your own luck - both good and bad.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Synchronicity, oh yes, that and the Moirai of course, drawing lots, weaving life's rich tapestry

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By *andACouple
over a year ago

glasgow

"If the universe was created by a Big Bang and if Einstein was correct and the universe is deterministic...

...Then fate absolutely exists. And I don't really see how you could argue otherwise.

Doesn't mean fate is benign or exists for your benefit, it just is.

Remember, it's generally considered that Einstein was wrong, and Neil Bohr was correct, in terms of Quantum physics. This refutes the idea of a deterministic universe (and Einsteins famous dice quote)

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By *andACouple
over a year ago

glasgow

Should add that there's a wonderful series on BBC4 at the moment about quanum mechanics that basically explains all this in an easy to digest form.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes I believe in fate and that our life is mapped out in a path way and mine is not to have much sex to hardly nothing but instead have a great Spartan gladiator body

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Fate is a word that through the years and mispelled by many cultures is actually choice lol !! We all live and we all die ? Fate doesn't control that only choice and luck whether good or bad ...

But hey if it makes you feel better !!! Ye go fate

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

"Fate is a word that through the years and mispelled by many cultures is actually choice lol !! We all live and we all die ? Fate doesn't control that only choice and luck whether good or bad ...

But hey if it makes you feel better !!! Ye go fate "

But luck is just another word for fate or at least a facet of it, isn't it?

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By *ensualtouch15Man
over a year ago

ashby de la zouch

So I don't really understand the concept of fete

Do those who do , know if everything is predetermined or only specific exceptionally good or fortunate things and do believers not believe in a concept of random ,

obviously in a predetermined universe anything that may appear in such a way that humans deemed it reasonable to call random are in fact illusions behind which are predictable algorithms complex and plausibly forever beyond the reach of humans but still theoretically predictable

If random exists can fete ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Fate is a word that through the years and mispelled by many cultures is actually choice lol !! We all live and we all die ? Fate doesn't control that only choice and luck whether good or bad ...

But hey if it makes you feel better !!! Ye go fate

But luck is just another word for fate or at least a facet of it, isn't it?"
fate? Destiny ? All pish unless you are selfish ? ... Ok ? Anyone pick a momemt that fate !! Mentioned or thought by ? Ok .. You or someone else is now on a place decided by fate? Now think of happiness its brought and dispare to others

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

"Fate is a word that through the years and mispelled by many cultures is actually choice lol !! We all live and we all die ? Fate doesn't control that only choice and luck whether good or bad ...

But hey if it makes you feel better !!! Ye go fate

But luck is just another word for fate or at least a facet of it, isn't it? fate? Destiny ? All pish unless you are selfish ? ... Ok ? Anyone pick a momemt that fate !! Mentioned or thought by ? Ok .. You or someone else is now on a place decided by fate? Now think of happiness its brought and dispare to others

If fate is outside of our control how can believing in it be selfish?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

what will be will be

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Nope..... There's no meaning of life, no religion, were not part of some greater concept bigger than ourselves, as if you think about it, were basically fuck all in a universe trillions times bigger than this insignificant planet, and what any of us do in our lives really is pretty meaningless in the grand scheme of things, you live and you die. Things happen because of variables in life that just happen to unfold the way that they do. So you might aswell enjoy yourself in the process!!

That's what got me into this, who needs morals lol!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Fate is a word that through the years and mispelled by many cultures is actually choice lol !! We all live and we all die ? Fate doesn't control that only choice and luck whether good or bad ...

But hey if it makes you feel better !!! Ye go fate

If fate is outside of our control how can believing in it be selfish? "
c,mon Folkes fate is already written !!!! Apparently..... bieng selfish ?? Some would say a chemical imbalance in the brain ffs look peeps a we bit of advice ! Go away think bout it then watch a film called '. The invention of lying ' come back and unless your to far gone come back and post

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

"Fate is a word that through the years and mispelled by many cultures is actually choice lol !! We all live and we all die ? Fate doesn't control that only choice and luck whether good or bad ...

But hey if it makes you feel better !!! Ye go fate

If fate is outside of our control how can believing in it be selfish? c,mon Folkes fate is already written !!!! Apparently..... bieng selfish ?? Some would say a chemical imbalance in the brain ffs look peeps a we bit of advice ! Go away think bout it then watch a film called '. The invention of lying ' come back and unless your to far gone come back and post

I'm sorry I genuinely don't understand your post.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The common fallacy underpinning those who do not believe in fate is that time exists. Time does not exist. It is merely a perceptual bi-product of our passing through. Everything that has happened and everything that will happen... has already happened. It's now just up to us to pass through it... or at least that's one way of looking at it lol

Another way, which I prefer, is that life is like a symphony and I'm one of the members of the orchestra. I'm playing my part and doing my own thing. But I'm also being conducted by God. So really what I do and how I chose to respond to things is genuinely me... but quietly conducted by God.

Of course the final take on all of this would be to say that all of us are God incarnated, slugs too, and that, as such, all of the decisions we are making are God's choices. Added together it amounts to a mass of decisions by one entity alone i.e. God. It's a form of freedom of expression, but lacking any notion of there ever being a 3d party external to that. I particularly like this one because it means that everyone we hurt we will end up being that person and getting hurt by our actions. It really is the ultimate vision of perfect justice and karma

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The common fallacy underpinning those who do not believe in fate is that time exists. Time does not exist. It is merely a perceptual bi-product of our passing through. Everything that has happened and everything that will happen... has already happened. It's now just up to us to pass through it... or at least that's one way of looking at it lol

Waaaaaay too heavily based on religion and blind faith for me

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By *in with a GrinMan
over a year ago

Carlisle

What happens happens! But its you who makes it happen!

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

I think you either believe that there is an outside force influencing our lives or you don't. What you call that force varies.

I personally believe that whatever force affects my life comes from within me, not from without.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I think you either believe that there is an outside force influencing our lives or you don't. What you call that force varies.

I personally believe that whatever force affects my life comes from within me, not from without. "

That's why I just called a spade a spade and named it God. If anyone believes in fate and yet doesn't believe in God... they're gonna need to answer that vital question... just who are you imagining is pulling the strings here?

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

"I think you either believe that there is an outside force influencing our lives or you don't. What you call that force varies.

I personally believe that whatever force affects my life comes from within me, not from without.

The longer I live the more I think that no one is pulling the strings.

There is undoubtedly to mind anyway, an energy that is available to us all but that energy is in no way sentient or able to influence our lives.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I think you either believe that there is an outside force influencing our lives or you don't. What you call that force varies.

I personally believe that whatever force affects my life comes from within me, not from without.

The longer I live the more I think that no one is pulling the strings.

There is undoubtedly to mind anyway, an energy that is available to us all but that energy is in no way sentient or able to influence our lives. "

I agree. I guess there are two notions of fate. One is where fate is not responsive. It just is and was what it always was and will be. Utterly inevitable. We are just cells passing through that pre-existing structure, like I said in my first paragraph a few posts above. It also seems to be somewhat like Lincolnjay's vision, in which all of physics laws are set and unchanging and are, therefore, somewhat like a clockwork mechanism which already holds within it all of the possible permutations of what has and will happen and is now simply ticking it's way through them.

For most people this is a bit of a depressing and disempowering vision, especiallly when we take into account current biological and psychological research that tells us that before we consciously make a decision our subconscious has already made it for us... and so "choice" is simply an illusion.

The more religious angle suggests that fate is responsive, that it can change. For this to happen, however, it requires an audience, or a puppet master, who is taking note of our decisions and ammending fate to compensate. Or at least that's how I see it. Perhaps an Atheist could come up with an alternative scenario involving a responsive fate?

Of course there's also the unresponsive God model, where God's plan is already 'perfect' and it's up to us to simply experience it. I've got mixed feelngs about this idea, as it seems to have been thought up by utopianists. I tend to think that the interaction of chaos and order, of free will and fate, is as perfect as it gets

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I think you either believe that there is an outside force influencing our lives or you don't. What you call that force varies.

I personally believe that whatever force affects my life comes from within me, not from without.

The longer I live the more I think that no one is pulling the strings.

There is undoubtedly to mind anyway, an energy that is available to us all but that energy is in no way sentient or able to influence our lives. "

My thoughts exactly.

Nobody is pulling the strings, because there are no strings to be pulled.

Everything that exists on this planet in my opinion is part of a natural phenomenon that has no obvious purpose or meaning.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Everything that exists on this planet in my opinion is part of a natural phenomenon that has no obvious purpose or meaning."

I agree.... with some minor changes

That 'natural phenomenon' is God and our notions of 'purpose' and 'meaning' are intrinsically limited and human. We solve the 'meaning' of our own existence by saying that God exists... but what is the meaning of God's existence? That is one of the most terrifying questions you can ask a religious person because it soon becomes abundatly clear that you've only suceeded in sweeping the meaninglessness of your own existence under the rug of God's existence. The meaninglessness of God's existence has no rug to be swept under

Hope you enjoyed that one

The only way out of this problem, for a religious thinker, is to come to terms with the fact that 'meaning' is a human invention and that God's existence does not require meaning. Phew (mops brow)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If everything is down to a cosmic order do we all agree that murders and all other criminals should be set free as it wasn't their fault, just fate?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If everything is down to a cosmic order do we all agree that murders and all other criminals should be set free as it wasn't their fault, just fate?"

This is one of the reasons why I prefer the responsive fate theory over the clockwork mechanism theory Lincolnjay seems to be proposing. If it's all just clockwork then you're right, they were not the agents of their crime, they were merely tools. If life is a conversation between us and God, however, it becomes entirely possible that their crimes we're genuinely enacted by them but, simultaneously, God knew they would do this and is, even now, continuing to quietly conduct their lives as they now live out the repercussions of their crimes. At least that's one way of looking at it... Fatalism has many rabbit holes

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

"What about the sliding doors type scenarios.

Someone was trying to send me a text in the battery died just as they were about to press send. If they had successfully sent it we never would have met.

it seems like fate could have intervened in that case and we were supposed to meet."

Or more likely and probable, happy coincidence.

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

"Should add that there's a wonderful series on BBC4 at the moment about quanum mechanics that basically explains all this in an easy to digest form."

It's not that bloody easy to understand stand IMO. Maybe I'm just destined to never understand it. !!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Should add that there's a wonderful series on BBC4 at the moment about quanum mechanics that basically explains all this in an easy to digest form.

It's not that bloody easy to understand stand IMO. Maybe I'm just destined to never understand it. !!"

It's really easy Unclean... just take a bunch of scientific facts and laws of physics, put them in a blender, add half a pint of vodka, whizz it all around for a few seconds and then pour it over your face whilst making sure you keep your face dry at the same time

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It's really easy Unclean..."

Lol Wooops that should've been Unleashed

Ouch sorry about that mate

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By *ominantDogMan
over a year ago

Docklands, Exmoor, Manchester

"I believe in fate... It really seems to guide me and sometimes sort things out in ways I never expected....

Does fate guide you and does that thought comfort you if something doesn't go as well as you expected....or is it just coincidences?"

Call me Pangloss.

everything happens for the best of reasons.

My glass is always half full....unless I ordered the cheeseburger...

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

"I think you either believe that there is an outside force influencing our lives or you don't. What you call that force varies.

I personally believe that whatever force affects my life comes from within me, not from without.

The longer I live the more I think that no one is pulling the strings.

There is undoubtedly to mind anyway, an energy that is available to us all but that energy is in no way sentient or able to influence our lives.

My thoughts exactly.

Nobody is pulling the strings, because there are no strings to be pulled.

Everything that exists on this planet in my opinion is part of a natural phenomenon that has no obvious purpose or meaning. "

It doesn't have to have purpose or meaning to be fate.

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

"If everything is down to a cosmic order do we all agree that murders and all other criminals should be set free as it wasn't their fault, just fate?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It doesn't have to have purpose or meaning to be fate."

I'm not too sure about that. Surely for the word fate to have any meaning it must refer to something being pre-determined? Does this not infer an agent who determined it? A fate that was not thought out ahead of time, or that simply goes through a sequence of A-B-C-etc without any thought having gone into it... surely that's little different from randomness? It's just a pre-existent randomly constructed series of events which we are experiencing. That, surely, undermines what people mean by the word fate? Or does it? I'm confused lol

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

"It doesn't have to have purpose or meaning to be fate.

In a universe where everything was the result of cause and effect then everything would be predetermined, put not planned. Such predetermination could be considered fate but does not require any purpose or meaning to that predetermination.

Needless to say, from our former discussion, this is not the sort of universe I believe we live in and current scientific evidence and theory suggests we live in a non deterministic universe which would suggest that fate does not exist.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Needless to say, from our former discussion, this is not the sort of universe I believe we live in and current scientific evidence and theory suggests we live in a non deterministic universe which would suggest that fate does not exist."

IF God does exist and the universe was created then it is equally likely that humans are a sub microscopic bacteria existing on a particle, that is forming the mass of an atom, that is part of a cell that is an infinitesimally small part of the dildo he made, in order to add weight to the statement "go fuck yourself" next time Mrs God says "what time do you call this" after he has had a night out with his mates.

Fate, religion and any other external force is just an excuse for when people are unwilling to accept responsibility for their own actions.

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

Well if anything is possible I guess you could choose to believe this as much as anything else. It sort of goes along with the theory that our perceived universe could actually be just a small part of a much larger universe or multiverse.
"

in order to add weight to the statement "go fuck yourself" next time Mrs God says "what time do you call this" after he has had a night out with his mates. "
I thought, if this God existed, he lived in heaven. This sounds a lot more like hell to me.

Fate, religion and any other external force is just an excuse for when people are unwilling to accept responsibility for their own actions."

If this said 'are often' instead of 'is' I would totally agree with this statement.

As a general comment on your statement. I really don't think that belittling other peoples beliefs achieves anything. You could have made your points in a totally reasonable way with trying to offend anyone. The unnecessary offensiveness of your comments actually detracts from the credibility of what you said.

Oh, and for the record, I choose to believe in God.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No offence intended, it is the early hours of the morning, and I would rather be asleep, so my creativity on posts may be a lot lacking.

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

"No offence intended, it is the early hours of the morning, and I would rather be asleep, so my creativity on posts may be a lot lacking. "

I personally didn't take any.

I think I should be in my bed too actually.

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By *arry247Couple
over a year ago

Wakefield

"If everything is down to a cosmic order do we all agree that murders and all other criminals should be set free as it wasn't their fault, just fate?

No, because as I explained your fate depends on your mind and thoughts and if time was rewound the everything would be the same and your mind would make you react in the same way as would a criminal.

Criminals are locked up to protect the general public for the specific time of their sentence not to rehabilitate them.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I am part of the universal consciousness that links all things together and determines our fate known by lots of names

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's interesting to note that if we're now saying that the Big Bang was not only responsible for churning a whole lot of something out of nothing, but that, if we had a super computer capable of charting the movements of all of it's atoms, we would've been able to predict from the beginning that it would've led to the creation of Mozart's Requiem... well surely that's the very definition of a magic trick? A puff of smoke and a rabbit appears

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As far as I see it fate could exist in a non-deterministic universe. For a start free will can still be said not to exist in a non-deterministic universe by dint of the fact that it is our subconscious that decides things, not our conscious minds. As our decisions are made without our knowing it, this opens up the possibility of some other agent playing a role in our having made them, whether the universe is determinist or not. This introduces a crucial element of fatalism i.e. being a puppet.

Secondly, just because things are undecided at any one point does not mean they have not been pre-determined. We may, for example, reach a cross roads in which many alternative futures are laid out before us and we get to chose one, a model which seems rather un-deterministic to me. But each of these roads could, themselves, have been pre-determined i.e. not only is the universe pre-determined... but all of it's possible permutations, every one of it's possible futures, are too. Does that make any sense?

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By *bbandflowCouple
over a year ago

South Devon

Only if you want it to.

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By *uby0000Woman
over a year ago

hertfordshire

if I believed in fate I wouldn't set foot outside

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