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"makes me so angry" job done by the producers then | |||
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"makes me so angry In what respect ?"  | |||
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" It is amazing how easy it is to for the media to create these frenzies that always seem to have an agenda behind them and the cuts are never far behind."
The relationship between government and media is far closer than we are led to believe. I'm so sceptical I think the judicial system is in cahoots with them too.
The news of the world scandal was engineered, I'm sure of that. | |||
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"Media propaganda at its best....once people reliase that immigrants who step off the plane are not eligible for benefits straight off it might crub some negativity. " Curb not crub | |||
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"Media propaganda at its best....once people reliase that immigrants who step off the plane are not eligible for benefits straight off it might crub some negativity. Curb not crub " That's a shame. I was in total agreement. I thought this country needed more crubbing...  | |||
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"Media propaganda at its best....once people reliase that immigrants who step off the plane are not eligible for benefits straight off it might crub some negativity. Curb not crub That's a shame. I was in total agreement. I thought this country needed more crubbing... "Sorry to disappoint you lol  | |||
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"Media propaganda at its best....once people reliase that immigrants who step off the plane are not eligible for benefits straight off it might crub some negativity. Curb not crub That's a shame. I was in total agreement. I thought this country needed more crubbing... "Night crubs ? Social crubs and the like ? | |||
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"This is how governments do things. They fill the media with hype about subjects like this and create a situation where everyone is moaning about "benefits", or whatever the agenda is at the time. Low and behold when they announce that they are cutting working tax credits & child tax credits, or whatever, people won't moan as they have already been hoodwinked by this government backed propaganda that is being shoved down peoples throats. Now I've said it....lol It is amazing how easy it is to for the media to create these frenzies that always seem to have an agenda behind them and the cuts are never far behind." well said, the media is pushing the governments agenda here, and have been for a while, Do you know that only about 9% of claimants are these types of people. About 80% of pensioner are claiming benefits, a huge percentage of claimants have a job, sometimes two, but it doesn't pay enough to feed them. | |||
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"If you want something to get annoyed about, what about the house of lords refusing to get in cheaper champagne ? Not cut it out, just get a cheaper type than they currently get (free of charge) Cost the taxpayer £65,000 a year ! " and getting paid for clocking in spending token 1/2 hr there clocking out getting full days pay ! | |||
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"Bring back national service. You leave school at 16 no job or in education at at 18. It's national service for you" That's a bit draconian. I don't have any kids but i sure as hell wouldn't like them drafted at 16 and away fighting in illegal wars if i did. | |||
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"Bring back national service. You leave school at 16 no job or in education at at 18. It's national service for you" Anyone born after September 1st 1997 now has to stay in some form of education or training | |||
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"Bring back national service. You leave school at 16 no job or in education at at 18. It's national service for youThat's a bit draconian. I don't have any kids but i sure as hell wouldn't like them drafted at 16 and away fighting in illegal wars if i did." Not drafted untill 18 that give s them 2 years to get a job or do education | |||
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"Bring back national service. You leave school at 16 no job or in education at at 18. It's national service for you" Britain only ever had national service for a short while during and after World War Two. As an island we have never needed a large army unlike the other countries in Europe that; being on the continent needed large armies. Instead we have traditionally relied on our navy. There has never been, and never will be any need for Britain to have national service on a permanent basis like countries such as Germany have. It simply isn't neccesary. | |||
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"Bring back national service. You leave school at 16 no job or in education at at 18. It's national service for youThat's a bit draconian. I don't have any kids but i sure as hell wouldn't like them drafted at 16 and away fighting in illegal wars if i did. Not drafted untill 18 that give s them 2 years to get a job or do education" So now they have to stay in education until 18 if they don't have a job at the end. you suggest they're signed up for national service straight away? | |||
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Yet, getting all superior on those whom wear tracksuits on the dole makes certain people feel better especially when getting shit on by the boss or company.
Life's a prison, man... get to know this & then you start to become free. | |||
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"Bring back national service. You leave school at 16 no job or in education at at 18. It's national service for you Anyone born after September 1st 1997 now has to stay in some form of education or traiing " For how long and what happens if they do not | |||
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"It's funny the little tramps... I giggle as am drinking wine and eating cheese after my steak and lmao at the waste of spaces. Need to go and work no matter if they like the shitty job I don't care we all got to do stuff we don't like" No human being is a 'waste of space'. | |||
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"Bring back national service. You leave school at 16 no job or in education at at 18. It's national service for youThat's a bit draconian. I don't have any kids but i sure as hell wouldn't like them drafted at 16 and away fighting in illegal wars if i did. Not drafted untill 18 that give s them 2 years to get a job or do education" So because our politicians can't govern our country proper, you would have all our children become even more slaves to these war mongers? | |||
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"This is how governments do things. They fill the media with hype about subjects like this and create a situation where everyone is moaning about "benefits", or whatever the agenda is at the time. Low and behold when they announce that they are cutting working tax credits & child tax credits, or whatever, people won't moan as they have already been hoodwinked by this government backed propaganda that is being shoved down peoples throats. Now I've said it....lol It is amazing how easy it is to for the media to create these frenzies that always seem to have an agenda behind them and the cuts are never far behind. well said, the media is pushing the governments agenda here, and have been for a while, Do you know that only about 9% of claimants are these types of people. About 80% of pensioner are claiming benefits, a huge percentage of claimants have a job, sometimes two, but it doesn't pay enough to feed them." I'm one of those who works and rrceives benefits which are constantly being cut. Ive just been informed by my council that £70 per week on housekeeping is excessive. I'm poorer now than when I was 25 and bought my first flat. I'm not and never have been a scrounged and I'm fed up of having to constantly ask my parents to help me out financially. Yes there are definitely scroungers in our society but its a very small percentage. MPs want to try and survive on minimal wages to experience what its like. | |||
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"Bring back national service. You leave school at 16 no job or in education at at 18. It's national service for you Anyone born after September 1st 1997 now has to stay in some form of education or traiing For how long and what happens if they do not" Until they are 18. If they don't they are classified as not in education, employment or training and will be encouraged to become involved in one of those things through various schemes. They wont be entitled to benefits. They are a minority. | |||
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"Bring back national service. You leave school at 16 no job or in education at at 18. It's national service for you" Yet, great idea. Instead of sending people who have at least volunteered to die in pointless wars we can send our less successful kids to die instead. That'll stop them claiming benefits. | |||
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"What we have to realize that unemployment occurs due to the faults NOT of the individual but the society. Also, people being upset around a few thousand people blagging the system NEED to place their focus on what happens on Stock Markets...
Yet, getting all superior on those whom wear tracksuits on the dole makes certain people feel better especially when getting shit on by the boss or company.
Life's a prison, man... get to know this & then you start to become free. "Well your life maybe a prison but mines not thanks. | |||
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"This is how governments do things. They fill the media with hype about subjects like this and create a situation where everyone is moaning about "benefits", or whatever the agenda is at the time. Low and behold when they announce that they are cutting working tax credits & child tax credits, or whatever, people won't moan as they have already been hoodwinked by this government backed propaganda that is being shoved down peoples throats. Now I've said it....lol It is amazing how easy it is to for the media to create these frenzies that always seem to have an agenda behind them and the cuts are never far behind. well said, the media is pushing the governments agenda here, and have been for a while, Do you know that only about 9% of claimants are these types of people. About 80% of pensioner are claiming benefits, a huge percentage of claimants have a job, sometimes two, but it doesn't pay enough to feed them. I'm one of those who works and rrceives benefits which are constantly being cut. Ive just been informed by my council that £70 per week on housekeeping is excessive. I'm poorer now than when I was 25 and bought my first flat. I'm not and never have been a scrounged and I'm fed up of having to constantly ask my parents to help me out financially. Yes there are definitely scroungers in our society but its a very small percentage. MPs want to try and survive on minimal wages to experience what its like." I often wonder if 'in work' benefits aren't actually causing more problems than they solve. If they did not exist then employers would have to pay a realistic living wage. | |||
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"Bring back national service. You leave school at 16 no job or in education at at 18. It's national service for you Anyone born after September 1st 1997 now has to stay in some form of education or traiing For how long and what happens if they do not Until they are 18. If they don't they are classified as not in education, employment or training and will be encouraged to become involved in one of those things through various schemes. They wont be entitled to benefits. They are a minority." So nationalservice would be a good idea for those | |||
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"Bring back national service. You leave school at 16 no job or in education at at 18. It's national service for you Anyone born after September 1st 1997 now has to stay in some form of education or traiing For how long and what happens if they do not Until they are 18. If they don't they are classified as not in education, employment or training and will be encouraged to become involved in one of those things through various schemes. They wont be entitled to benefits. They are a minority. So nationalservice would be a good idea for those" Why is that? | |||
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"If you want something to get annoyed about, what about the house of lords refusing to get in cheaper champagne ? Not cut it out, just get a cheaper type than they currently get (free of charge) Cost the taxpayer £65,000 a year ! " £65,000 divided by 788 (Number members) gives £82.48 So you think that reducing the amount of money members of the House of Lords get by less than £82.48 a year is going to solve the benefits problem. Cheap political point scoring seldom helps in resolving real pragmatic problems. | |||
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"Bring back national service. You leave school at 16 no job or in education at at 18. It's national service for you Anyone born after September 1st 1997 now has to stay in some form of education or traiing For how long and what happens if they do not Until they are 18. If they don't they are classified as not in education, employment or training and will be encouraged to become involved in one of those things through various schemes. They wont be entitled to benefits. They are a minority. So nationalservice would be a good idea for those Why is that? " | |||
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"Bring back national service. You leave school at 16 no job or in education at at 18. It's national service for you Anyone born after September 1st 1997 now has to stay in some form of education or traiing For how long and what happens if they do not Until they are 18. If they don't they are classified as not in education, employment or training and will be encouraged to become involved in one of those things through various schemes. They wont be entitled to benefits. They are a minority. So nationalservice would be a good idea for those Why is that? " Puts them in employment | |||
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"Bring back national service. You leave school at 16 no job or in education at at 18. It's national service for you Anyone born after September 1st 1997 now has to stay in some form of education or traiing For how long and what happens if they do not Until they are 18. If they don't they are classified as not in education, employment or training and will be encouraged to become involved in one of those things through various schemes. They wont be entitled to benefits. They are a minority. So nationalservice would be a good idea for those Why is that? Puts them in employment" where is the money for their wages, the administration of the system and the extra resources the armed forces would need to take these people on going to come from? | |||
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"Just consider this... a British Couple, this week visited New York, lived the high life even seeing a NBA Basketball Game Courtside over $1,350 per. seat ALL paid by others. Yet, still concerned about those wearing Tracksuits drinking Cheap Cider "and he's from an immigrant family | |||
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"Just consider this... a British Couple, this week visited New York, lived the high life even seeing a NBA Basketball Game Courtside over $1,350 per. seat ALL paid by others. Yet, still concerned about those wearing Tracksuits drinking Cheap Cider "I don't see what this has to do with people on benefits. What, exactly, is your point. | |||
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"Bring back national service. You leave school at 16 no job or in education at at 18. It's national service for you Anyone born after September 1st 1997 now has to stay in some form of education or traiing For how long and what happens if they do not Until they are 18. If they don't they are classified as not in education, employment or training and will be encouraged to become involved in one of those things through various schemes. They wont be entitled to benefits. They are a minority. So nationalservice would be a good idea for those Why is that? Puts them in employment" So, because these kids are a bit unfortunate or a bit stupid or even a bit lazy, they should be forced to risks their lives for the likes of you. I don't think so!! | |||
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"Bring back national service. You leave school at 16 no job or in education at at 18. It's national service for you Anyone born after September 1st 1997 now has to stay in some form of education or traiing For how long and what happens if they do not Until they are 18. If they don't they are classified as not in education, employment or training and will be encouraged to become involved in one of those things through various schemes. They wont be entitled to benefits. They are a minority. So nationalservice would be a good idea for those Why is that? Puts them in employment So, because these kids are a bit unfortunate or a bit stupid or even a bit lazy, they should be forced to risks their lives for the likes of you. I don't think so!!" I done 15 years in the army i risk my life for you | |||
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"Bring back national service. You leave school at 16 no job or in education at at 18. It's national service for you Anyone born after September 1st 1997 now has to stay in some form of education or traiing For how long and what happens if they do not Until they are 18. If they don't they are classified as not in education, employment or training and will be encouraged to become involved in one of those things through various schemes. They wont be entitled to benefits. They are a minority. So nationalservice would be a good idea for those Why is that? Puts them in employment So, because these kids are a bit unfortunate or a bit stupid or even a bit lazy, they should be forced to risks their lives for the likes of you. I don't think so!! I done 15 years in the army i risk my life for you" How would long serving people feel about having unwilling national service men and women serving alongside them? | |||
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"Bring back national service. You leave school at 16 no job or in education at at 18. It's national service for you Anyone born after September 1st 1997 now has to stay in some form of education or traiing For how long and what happens if they do not Until they are 18. If they don't they are classified as not in education, employment or training and will be encouraged to become involved in one of those things through various schemes. They wont be entitled to benefits. They are a minority. So nationalservice would be a good idea for those Why is that? Puts them in employment So, because these kids are a bit unfortunate or a bit stupid or even a bit lazy, they should be forced to risks their lives for the likes of you. I don't think so!! I done 15 years in the army i risk my life for you" Then I appreciate that but, without belittling what you may have done, you VOLUNTEERED to risk your life. You are suggesting that the poor or unsuccessful should be forced to risk theirs. I could never agree that that was right. | |||
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"Bring back national service. You leave school at 16 no job or in education at at 18. It's national service for you Anyone born after September 1st 1997 now has to stay in some form of education or traiing For how long and what happens if they do not Until they are 18. If they don't they are classified as not in education, employment or training and will be encouraged to become involved in one of those things through various schemes. They wont be entitled to benefits. They are a minority. So nationalservice would be a good idea for those" Soldiers don't work for free you know. They will expect a hell of a lot more than minimum wage. How will the mod pay them, when they are already scrapping regiments? | |||
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"If you want something to get annoyed about, what about the house of lords refusing to get in cheaper champagne ? Not cut it out, just get a cheaper type than they currently get (free of charge) Cost the taxpayer £65,000 a year ! £65,000 divided by 788 (Number members) gives £82.48 So you think that reducing the amount of money members of the House of Lords get by less than £82.48 a year is going to solve the benefits problem. Cheap political point scoring seldom helps in resolving real pragmatic problems. " Its a principal. But our "betters" have shown us they have none. Many times. | |||
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"I do love those people that profess this is media propaganda and to a certain extent this could be true however there are hard facts in there which cant be denied. The _omanian gypsy stating he cant wait to get his youngest sone british cotizenship as he can then claim benefits, hes doing his house up in _omania for ffs sake on our handouts he doesnt even intend to live here. Or the polish woman whos husband works in bristol but she and her son live in poland as the son didnt settle here but she likes british benefits as its much more than in poland its a disgrace benefit money should not be paid to anyone outside britain if its only the hubby here then no benefit should be paid. And ill vote for farage to stop this even if he has no other policies as this one makes me mad " | |||
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"Bring back national service. You leave school at 16 no job or in education at at 18. It's national service for you Anyone born after September 1st 1997 now has to stay in some form of education or traiing For how long and what happens if they do not Until they are 18. If they don't they are classified as not in education, employment or training and will be encouraged to become involved in one of those things through various schemes. They wont be entitled to benefits. They are a minority. So nationalservice would be a good idea for those Why is that? Puts them in employment So, because these kids are a bit unfortunate or a bit stupid or even a bit lazy, they should be forced to risks their lives for the likes of you. I don't think so!! I done 15 years in the army i risk my life for you" I never asked or expected you to. I joined up after leaving school. Total waste of my time, and government money. | |||
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"It's funny the little tramps... I giggle as am drinking wine and eating cheese after my steak and lmao at the waste of spaces. Need to go and work no matter if they like the shitty job I don't care we all got to do stuff we don't like" Steak,cheese and wine ? You're living the dream my friend  | |||
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" I done 15 years in the army i risk my life for you " I did 2 years and never felt that I was risking my life for anyone in particular, nor did I think anyone would think I was.  | |||
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"If you want something to get annoyed about, what about the house of lords refusing to get in cheaper champagne ? Not cut it out, just get a cheaper type than they currently get (free of charge) Cost the taxpayer £65,000 a year ! £65,000 divided by 788 (Number members) gives £82.48 So you think that reducing the amount of money members of the House of Lords get by less than £82.48 a year is going to solve the benefits problem. Cheap political point scoring seldom helps in resolving real pragmatic problems. Its a principal. But our "betters" have shown us they have none. Many times." Well maybe you think they are your 'betters' but they are quite definitely not mine. And the only people I've found to lack principal are those who ascribe beliefs or attitudes to others with out any real knowledge of who they are or what they believe. | |||
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"Ok maybe not national service , but why after a certain length of time should they not be expected to do some kind of voluntary work to put something back into the community that's supporting them " | |||
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" I done 15 years in the army i risk my life for you I did 2 years and never felt that I was risking my life for anyone in particular, nor did I think anyone would think I was. "If you search up on the Malaya Crisis in the 1950's you'll find out that most of the British Soldiers that were killed were the ones on National Service, not the volunteers who were signed up for 3 or more years. Look at it from the armies point of view. Who you going to send to walk down the road and possibly get blown up. The expensively and highly trained volunteer who's got 2 or more years service In him or the Basic Trained guy who cost next to nothing and will be leaving any how in less than a year. Now tell me that if National Service was introduced the army isn't going to put there lives at risk first. Of course they are. | |||
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"This is how governments do things. They fill the media with hype about subjects like this and create a situation where everyone is moaning about "benefits", or whatever the agenda is at the time. Low and behold when they announce that they are cutting working tax credits & child tax credits, or whatever, people won't moan as they have already been hoodwinked by this government backed propaganda that is being shoved down peoples throats. Now I've said it....lol It is amazing how easy it is to for the media to create these frenzies that always seem to have an agenda behind them and the cuts are never far behind. well said, the media is pushing the governments agenda here, and have been for a while, Do you know that only about 9% of claimants are these types of people. About 80% of pensioner are claiming benefits, a huge percentage of claimants have a job, sometimes two, but it doesn't pay enough to feed them. I'm one of those who works and rrceives benefits which are constantly being cut. Ive just been informed by my council that £70 per week on housekeeping is excessive. I'm poorer now than when I was 25 and bought my first flat. I'm not and never have been a scrounged and I'm fed up of having to constantly ask my parents to help me out financially. Yes there are definitely scroungers in our society but its a very small percentage. MPs want to try and survive on minimal wages to experience what its like." £70 is excessive to the LA they look at the national average for your size family. | |||
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"It's funny the little tramps... I giggle as am drinking wine and eating cheese after my steak and lmao at the waste of spaces. Need to go and work no matter if they like the shitty job I don't care we all got to do stuff we don't like No human being is a 'waste of space'." I think you're wrong there pal, I understand where you're coming from in a sense that all life is valuable but can you honestly say that a person who gives nothing back to society and is a drain on the system and believes the world owes them a living is not a waste of space. There are people who do nothing but take take take and play the system to their advantage and give absolutely nothing back. Believe me, there are plenty of people who are a waste of space. I'm not saying all people on benefits are a waste of space, just an element of them that bleed the system dry as a chosen career | |||
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"It's funny the little tramps... I giggle as am drinking wine and eating cheese after my steak and lmao at the waste of spaces. Need to go and work no matter if they like the shitty job I don't care we all got to do stuff we don't like No human being is a 'waste of space'. I think you're wrong there pal, I understand where you're coming from in a sense that all life is valuable but can you honestly say that a person who gives nothing back to society and is a drain on the system and believes the world owes them a living is not a waste of space. There are people who do nothing but take take take and play the system to their advantage and give absolutely nothing back. Believe me, there are plenty of people who are a waste of space. I'm not saying all people on benefits are a waste of space, just an element of them that bleed the system dry as a chosen career " controversial view. How are we defining wastes of space? How about the people who are very disabled and unable to work at all? | |||
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"Not read the whole thread but heres my take. bar 6 months all at one time under thatcher ive worked all my life. 6 days a week but i wont be brainwashed into thinking I HAVE to work for some sort of respect. I only wirk for a easier life. The problem we now have is under the Tory goverments time after time people were being made unemployed and wages went down whist the cost of living went up. The only way out of this was to give people benefits. Now rightly or wrongly people on low paid jobs can earn just as much sitting at home with their familes. If i was on low paid work and could get paid that I would too. Same as the people legally avoiding tax " Except that a lot of these 'in work' benefits and the real drop in low pay happened between 1997 and 2010. I good point spoilt by trying to score party political points. There are real problems with low pay and the need for 'in work' benefits. Blaming it all on Thatcher and the Tories just means that Labour gets away with either doing nothing about it or making it worse, as they did last time. | |||
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" controversial view. How are we defining wastes of space? How about the people who are very disabled and unable to work at all?" I agree. It has a whiff of the 1940s about it. | |||
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" controversial view. How are we defining wastes of space? How about the people who are very disabled and unable to work at all? I agree. It has a whiff of the 1940s about it. " indeed  very sad. | |||
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"I.D.S. the 21st century Matthew Hopkins. His sole purpose is to rid the towns and cities of those who are less fortunate than him. The methods have change very little over the years,only now instead of throwing folk into the village pond,he throws them to ATOS and the like. If you make it to the medical your fit for work,if you dont manage it,then your a scrounger and sanctioned. " So it was some how better that people should be just left on the verge of poverty, for ever receiving sickness benefit regardless of how sick they actually are. If I was ill and was told I could not work that would be a disaster in my life. If at a later stage I was re-examined and told I was now fit for work I would consider that a major triumph not a set back. So, yes, people are being made to go through medical test to see how fit they really are, And yes, some people who thought they were to ill to ever work again in their lives are being given the GOOD news that actually they are fit enough work. And if you really believe that a new labour government in May is going to change ANY of that your are living in cloud cookoo land. | |||
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"History repeats what did Hitler did convince the people that's Jews were bad. Our Government does it more sneaky, if the Police arrest someone their first question is: Do you work? Thus establishing them as a second class person ( Neo Jew).They are trying to pull us out of Europe to make Britain a Police state. Notice all the metal posts all over the country rusting because Europe won't allow cameras everywhere. Their arming up also, beware of propaganda, the BBC are owned by the state." Love a conspiricy theory | |||
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"History repeats what did Hitler did convince the people that's Jews were bad. Our Government does it more sneaky, if the Police arrest someone their first question is: Do you work? Thus establishing them as a second class person ( Neo Jew). " I really don't think asking someone if they have a job or not can possibly be compared to forcing them at gunpoint on to trains to be gassed. I think your really need to get a little bit of perspective. " They are trying to pull us out of Europe to make Britain a Police state. " On what do you base this assertion. I'm not in favour of us pulling out of Europe but this is just fanciful. If anything there are probably more people who believe we could became a Police State by staying in Europe. " Notice all the metal posts all over the country rusting because Europe won't allow cameras everywhere. " No, I've not noticed them. Maybe you could tell me how many there are and where they are. " Their arming up also, " Who's arming up? " beware of propaganda, " Trust me I am, that's why I want more explanation from you about what you're saying. " the BBC are owned by the state. " I glad you told me that. I always thought my TV Licence money went to charity. | |||
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"It's funny the little tramps... I giggle as am drinking wine and eating cheese after my steak and lmao at the waste of spaces. Need to go and work no matter if they like the shitty job I don't care we all got to do stuff we don't like No human being is a 'waste of space'. I think you're wrong there pal, I understand where you're coming from in a sense that all life is valuable but can you honestly say that a person who gives nothing back to society and is a drain on the system and believes the world owes them a living is not a waste of space. There are people who do nothing but take take take and play the system to their advantage and give absolutely nothing back. Believe me, there are plenty of people who are a waste of space. I'm not saying all people on benefits are a waste of space, just an element of them that bleed the system dry as a chosen career controversial view. How are we defining wastes of space? How about the people who are very disabled and unable to work at all?" I didn't mention the sick, lame or disabled, obviously those are the people that truly need and deserve all the benefits they can get. The type of people I am talking about are those that never work a day in their lives and abuse the benefits system to get as many as they can. They see being on benefits as their job and are aggrieved when their ability to work is challenged. | |||
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"It's funny the little tramps... I giggle as am drinking wine and eating cheese after my steak and lmao at the waste of spaces. Need to go and work no matter if they like the shitty job I don't care we all got to do stuff we don't like No human being is a 'waste of space'. I think you're wrong there pal, I understand where you're coming from in a sense that all life is valuable but can you honestly say that a person who gives nothing back to society and is a drain on the system and believes the world owes them a living is not a waste of space. There are people who do nothing but take take take and play the system to their advantage and give absolutely nothing back. Believe me, there are plenty of people who are a waste of space. I'm not saying all people on benefits are a waste of space, just an element of them that bleed the system dry as a chosen career controversial view. How are we defining wastes of space? How about the people who are very disabled and unable to work at all? I didn't mention the sick, lame or disabled, obviously those are the people that truly need and deserve all the benefits they can get. The type of people I am talking about are those that never work a day in their lives and abuse the benefits system to get as many as they can. They see being on benefits as their job and are aggrieved when their ability to work is challenged. " I think the phrase 'waist of space' was probably not the best phrase to use in making your original point. However I do agree with your final point but, the reality is, there are not enough of those sort of people to really make a significant difference in the total cost of wealthfare one way or another. Not saying they should not be pursued but it isn't going to solve the problem of too much money being spent. | |||
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"History repeats what did Hitler did convince the people that's Jews were bad. Our Government does it more sneaky, if the Police arrest someone their first question is: Do you work? Thus establishing them as a second class person ( Neo Jew). I really don't think asking someone if they have a job or not can possibly be compared to forcing them at gunpoint on to trains to be gassed. I think your really need to get a little bit of perspective. They are trying to pull us out of Europe to make Britain a Police state. On what do you base this assertion. I'm not in favour of us pulling out of Europe but this is just fanciful. If anything there are probably more people who believe we could became a Police State by staying in Europe. Notice all the metal posts all over the country rusting because Europe won't allow cameras everywhere. No, I've not noticed them. Maybe you could tell me how many there are and where they are. Their arming up also, Who's arming up? beware of propaganda, Trust me I am, that's why I want more explanation from you about what you're saying. the BBC are owned by the state. I glad you told me that. I always thought my TV Licence money went to charity." They are arming up. Slowly but surely. | |||
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" I didn't mention the sick, lame or disabled, obviously those are the people that truly need and deserve all the benefits they can get. The type of people I am talking about are those that never work a day in their lives and abuse the benefits system to get as many as they can. They see being on benefits as their job and are aggrieved when their ability to work is challenged. " The deserving and undeserving poor. How very Victorian. | |||
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"If you want something to get annoyed about, what about the house of lords refusing to get in cheaper champagne ? Not cut it out, just get a cheaper type than they currently get (free of charge) Cost the taxpayer £65,000 a year ! £65,000 divided by 788 (Number members) gives £82.48 So you think that reducing the amount of money members of the House of Lords get by less than £82.48 a year is going to solve the benefits problem. Cheap political point scoring seldom helps in resolving real pragmatic problems. Its a principal. But our "betters" have shown us they have none. Many times. Well maybe you think they are your 'betters' but they are quite definitely not mine. And the only people I've found to lack principal are those who ascribe beliefs or attitudes to others with out any real knowledge of who they are or what they believe." Why do you think I used quotation marks for betters? I don't think they are. They do. Plenty of MPs on all sides and a fair few in the house of lords have shown themselves to be unprincipled. I am beginning to think its a prerequisite of all MPs. | |||
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"It's funny the little tramps... I giggle as am drinking wine and eating cheese after my steak and lmao at the waste of spaces. Need to go and work no matter if they like the shitty job I don't care we all got to do stuff we don't like No human being is a 'waste of space'. I think you're wrong there pal, I understand where you're coming from in a sense that all life is valuable but can you honestly say that a person who gives nothing back to society and is a drain on the system and believes the world owes them a living is not a waste of space. There are people who do nothing but take take take and play the system to their advantage and give absolutely nothing back. Believe me, there are plenty of people who are a waste of space. I'm not saying all people on benefits are a waste of space, just an element of them that bleed the system dry as a chosen career controversial view. How are we defining wastes of space? How about the people who are very disabled and unable to work at all? I didn't mention the sick, lame or disabled, obviously those are the people that truly need and deserve all the benefits they can get. The type of people I am talking about are those that never work a day in their lives and abuse the benefits system to get as many as they can. They see being on benefits as their job and are aggrieved when their ability to work is challenged. " Ok, so what is your solution to these "wastes of space"? How would you reclaim the space they are using up? | |||
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"Maybe Russell Brand is right, " As is the law, Park Life! | |||
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"Last time the Tories were in they SOLD everything they could sell... They have now Sold Scotland Yard for over a £120 MILLION more than the asking price !!! Nothings Changed since Maggie the milk thief really.. "The sale of the yard will yet again fuel house prices in the capitol pushing local low paid workers out of renting let alone buying . Cant see the oil baron that has bought the plot being to worried | |||
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"I've just been checking the actual statistics. According to the Citizen's Advice and every other source I looked at, Benefit Fraud costs £1.6 billion a year. However, tax evasion costs around £15 billions a year. Some difference. " Tsk Tina! You're going to spoil a good argument with facts here....steady on. | |||
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"It's funny the little tramps... I giggle as am drinking wine and eating cheese after my steak and lmao at the waste of spaces. Need to go and work no matter if they like the shitty job I don't care we all got to do stuff we don't like No human being is a 'waste of space'. I think you're wrong there pal, I understand where you're coming from in a sense that all life is valuable but can you honestly say that a person who gives nothing back to society and is a drain on the system and believes the world owes them a living is not a waste of space. There are people who do nothing but take take take and play the system to their advantage and give absolutely nothing back. Believe me, there are plenty of people who are a waste of space. I'm not saying all people on benefits are a waste of space, just an element of them that bleed the system dry as a chosen career controversial view. How are we defining wastes of space? How about the people who are very disabled and unable to work at all? I didn't mention the sick, lame or disabled, obviously those are the people that truly need and deserve all the benefits they can get. The type of people I am talking about are those that never work a day in their lives and abuse the benefits system to get as many as they can. They see being on benefits as their job and are aggrieved when their ability to work is challenged. Ok, so what is your solution to these "wastes of space"? How would you reclaim the space they are using up?" That's easy, use them to fuel our power stations, is that the kind of thing you'd like to hear so you can jump down my throat for having an opinion. As I didn't mention sick and disabled in my previous post I didn't say I had the solutions to the problems either. If I did have the solutions then I'd be sitting in government, having an opinion doesn't mean i have all the answers. I bid you good day. | |||
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"I've just been checking the actual statistics. According to the Citizen's Advice and every other source I looked at, Benefit Fraud costs £1.6 billion a year. However, tax evasion costs around £15 billions a year. Some difference. " That doesn't mean either one is more right than the other, they both need sorting out. 1.6 billion is a hell if a lot of money. | |||
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" It is amazing how easy it is to for the media to create these frenzies that always seem to have an agenda behind them and the cuts are never far behind.
The relationship between government and media is far closer than we are led to believe. I'm so sceptical I think the judicial system is in cahoots with them too.
The news of the world scandal was engineered, I'm sure of that.". That's a very interesting point. If you think back to the very beginning when then two walleys on sky football got the sack, the phone tapping scandal has not yet broken however Andy gray was one of the celebrity's that was suing the news of the world for tapping his phone, of course what he didn't realise is how big the scandal was and how high up it went and therefore like many other celebrities was put to the sword by Rupert in the vain hope that other people suing would see his downfall and capitulate themselves. So we know the gov and Murdoch were complicit in the scandal so who knew and pushed for the outing of the scandal... Oh yes the dear old bbc , two media giants competing for power and persuasion with the gov. There is no gov there's just the media and corporations running the whole system as it suits them | |||
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" Ok, so what is your solution to these "wastes of space"? How would you reclaim the space they are using up? That's easy, use them to fuel our power stations, is that the kind of thing you'd like to hear so you can jump down my throat for having an opinion. As I didn't mention sick and disabled in my previous post I didn't say I had the solutions to the problems either. If I did have the solutions then I'd be sitting in government, having an opinion doesn't mean i have all the answers. I bid you good day. " No that isn't what I wanted to hear I was hoping for debate. Good day. | |||
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"History repeats what did Hitler did convince the people that's Jews were bad. Our Government does it more sneaky, if the Police arrest someone their first question is: Do you work? Thus establishing them as a second class person ( Neo Jew). I really don't think asking someone if they have a job or not can possibly be compared to forcing them at gunpoint on to trains to be gassed. I think your really need to get a little bit of perspective. They are trying to pull us out of Europe to make Britain a Police state. On what do you base this assertion. I'm not in favour of us pulling out of Europe but this is just fanciful. If anything there are probably more people who believe we could became a Police State by staying in Europe. Notice all the metal posts all over the country rusting because Europe won't allow cameras everywhere. No, I've not noticed them. Maybe you could tell me how many there are and where they are. Their arming up also, Who's arming up? beware of propaganda, Trust me I am, that's why I want more explanation from you about what you're saying. the BBC are owned by the state. I glad you told me that. I always thought my TV Licence money went to charity. They are arming up. Slowly but surely." WHO'S arming up? Answer the question please. I want to know | |||
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"History repeats what did Hitler did convince the people that's Jews were bad. Our Government does it more sneaky, if the Police arrest someone their first question is: Do you work? Thus establishing them as a second class person ( Neo Jew). I really don't think asking someone if they have a job or not can possibly be compared to forcing them at gunpoint on to trains to be gassed. I think your really need to get a little bit of perspective. They are trying to pull us out of Europe to make Britain a Police state. On what do you base this assertion. I'm not in favour of us pulling out of Europe but this is just fanciful. If anything there are probably more people who believe we could became a Police State by staying in Europe. Notice all the metal posts all over the country rusting because Europe won't allow cameras everywhere. No, I've not noticed them. Maybe you could tell me how many there are and where they are. Their arming up also, Who's arming up? beware of propaganda, Trust me I am, that's why I want more explanation from you about what you're saying. the BBC are owned by the state. I glad you told me that. I always thought my TV Licence money went to charity. They are arming up. Slowly but surely. WHO'S arming up? Answer the question please. I want to know" It will be the Swiss, they are the badasses of Europe, I learned that on a Forum thread a couple of weeks ago. | |||
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"I've just been checking the actual statistics. According to the Citizen's Advice and every other source I looked at, Benefit Fraud costs £1.6 billion a year. However, tax evasion costs around £15 billions a year. Some difference. That doesn't mean either one is more right than the other, they both need sorting out. 1.6 billion is a hell if a lot of money." One seems to be a bigger problem, more in need of attention than the other to me. | |||
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"I've just been checking the actual statistics. According to the Citizen's Advice and every other source I looked at, Benefit Fraud costs £1.6 billion a year. However, tax evasion costs around £15 billions a year. Some difference. That doesn't mean either one is more right than the other, they both need sorting out. 1.6 billion is a hell if a lot of money. One seems to be a bigger problem, more in need of attention than the other to me. " I suspect both numbers are very understated. Tax evasion which is illegal, will, I supsect, be dwarved by tax avoidance, which isn't. | |||
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"If you want something to get annoyed about, what about the house of lords refusing to get in cheaper champagne ? Not cut it out, just get a cheaper type than they currently get (free of charge) Cost the taxpayer £65,000 a year ! £65,000 divided by 788 (Number members) gives £82.48 So you think that reducing the amount of money members of the House of Lords get by less than £82.48 a year is going to solve the benefits problem. Cheap political point scoring seldom helps in resolving real pragmatic problems. Its a principal. But our "betters" have shown us they have none. Many times. Well maybe you think they are your 'betters' but they are quite definitely not mine. And the only people I've found to lack principal are those who ascribe beliefs or attitudes to others with out any real knowledge of who they are or what they believe. Why do you think I used quotation marks for betters? I don't think they are. They do. " Do they? Have they said so? Or is it just that YOU think they think they are better than you? " Plenty of MPs on all sides and a fair few in the house of lords have shown themselves to be unprincipled. " Can you give some examples of this please. That way we can decide for ourselves. " I am beginning to think its a prerequisite of all MPs." Well you are entitled to thing what you want but if you are going to make accusations should back them up with some facts. | |||
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"History repeats what did Hitler did convince the people that's Jews were bad. Our Government does it more sneaky, if the Police arrest someone their first question is: Do you work? Thus establishing them as a second class person ( Neo Jew). I really don't think asking someone if they have a job or not can possibly be compared to forcing them at gunpoint on to trains to be gassed. I think your really need to get a little bit of perspective. " Hitler didn't just take power and immediately begin loading the Jewish people onto trains heading to death camps. It was a gradual process of turning the general public against the Jewish people where they were blamed for all the evils that Germany as a country were suffering. This took many years and I think the point the previous poster was making is that what is happening with regards benefits claimants in this country is VERY similar to how it started in Germany.....And I agree. | |||
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"History repeats what did Hitler did convince the people that's Jews were bad. Our Government does it more sneaky, if the Police arrest someone their first question is: Do you work? Thus establishing them as a second class person ( Neo Jew). I really don't think asking someone if they have a job or not can possibly be compared to forcing them at gunpoint on to trains to be gassed. I think your really need to get a little bit of perspective. They are trying to pull us out of Europe to make Britain a Police state. On what do you base this assertion. I'm not in favour of us pulling out of Europe but this is just fanciful. If anything there are probably more people who believe we could became a Police State by staying in Europe. Notice all the metal posts all over the country rusting because Europe won't allow cameras everywhere. No, I've not noticed them. Maybe you could tell me how many there are and where they are. Their arming up also, Who's arming up? beware of propaganda, Trust me I am, that's why I want more explanation from you about what you're saying. the BBC are owned by the state. I glad you told me that. I always thought my TV Licence money went to charity. They are arming up. Slowly but surely. WHO'S arming up? Answer the question please. I want to know" The police, first "non lethal" arms, taser, pepper spray. We already gave armed response units. tasers have been proven they can be lethal, as can the baton they all carry. Tasers are only carried when a call goes out that they may be needed. For now. As I said, slowly and surely. The more we get used to seeing them, the more lethal arms will start to be seen. That's how all governments deploy all their ideas that the public are so opposed to. | |||
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"These kind of discussions always make me think that there should be some kind of basic citizens wage. Everyone who is a citizen gets a small amount of money every week/month. The same amount. What you choose to do with it is up to you. No other benefits for citizens. Just citizens wage. A citizens wage would then potentially mean that people didn't need to work so much in lower paid jobs, freeing up hours for other people to work - if they wanted to. The benefit would be that with just one system and no means testing or appointments, you massively cut costs and it might even go some way to paying for itself. Then we could concentrate on helping those who need additional help. The long term ill, the asylum seekers and the oppressed. And the only good thing I can think of about national service is that all my Norwegian friends are hot..." Thats interesting and also quite controversial. Would the citizens wage be enough to live on, would state pensions still be paid? | |||
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"History repeats what did Hitler did convince the people that's Jews were bad. Our Government does it more sneaky, if the Police arrest someone their first question is: Do you work? Thus establishing them as a second class person ( Neo Jew). I really don't think asking someone if they have a job or not can possibly be compared to forcing them at gunpoint on to trains to be gassed. I think your really need to get a little bit of perspective. Hitler didn't just take power and immediately begin loading the Jewish people onto trains heading to death camps. It was a gradual process of turning the general public against the Jewish people where they were blamed for all the evils that Germany as a country were suffering. This took many years and I think the point the previous poster was making is that what is happening with regards benefits claimants in this country is VERY similar to how it started in Germany.....And I agree." I see no similarity at all being making sure that people who are claiming benefits are actually entitled to them and discriminating against a whole group of people based on the ethnic origin. This point might have some credence if we were talking about immigrants or Muslims but we're not. There is absolutely no similarity at all. | |||
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"History repeats what did Hitler did convince the people that's Jews were bad. Our Government does it more sneaky, if the Police arrest someone their first question is: Do you work? Thus establishing them as a second class person ( Neo Jew). I really don't think asking someone if they have a job or not can possibly be compared to forcing them at gunpoint on to trains to be gassed. I think your really need to get a little bit of perspective. They are trying to pull us out of Europe to make Britain a Police state. On what do you base this assertion. I'm not in favour of us pulling out of Europe but this is just fanciful. If anything there are probably more people who believe we could became a Police State by staying in Europe. Notice all the metal posts all over the country rusting because Europe won't allow cameras everywhere. No, I've not noticed them. Maybe you could tell me how many there are and where they are. Their arming up also, Who's arming up? beware of propaganda, Trust me I am, that's why I want more explanation from you about what you're saying. the BBC are owned by the state. I glad you told me that. I always thought my TV Licence money went to charity. They are arming up. Slowly but surely. WHO'S arming up? Answer the question please. I want to know The police, first "non lethal" arms, taser, pepper spray. We already gave armed response units. tasers have been proven they can be lethal, as can the baton they all carry. Tasers are only carried when a call goes out that they may be needed. For now. As I said, slowly and surely. The more we get used to seeing them, the more lethal arms will start to be seen. That's how all governments deploy all their ideas that the public are so opposed to. " I agree, that is a very worrying trend, but what has it got to do with benefit claimants? | |||
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"History repeats what did Hitler did convince the people that's Jews were bad. Our Government does it more sneaky, if the Police arrest someone their first question is: Do you work? Thus establishing them as a second class person ( Neo Jew). I really don't think asking someone if they have a job or not can possibly be compared to forcing them at gunpoint on to trains to be gassed. I think your really need to get a little bit of perspective. Hitler didn't just take power and immediately begin loading the Jewish people onto trains heading to death camps. It was a gradual process of turning the general public against the Jewish people where they were blamed for all the evils that Germany as a country were suffering. This took many years and I think the point the previous poster was making is that what is happening with regards benefits claimants in this country is VERY similar to how it started in Germany.....And I agree. I see no similarity at all being making sure that people who are claiming benefits are actually entitled to them and discriminating against a whole group of people based on the ethnic origin. This point might have some credence if we were talking about immigrants or Muslims but we're not. There is absolutely no similarity at all. " Are you for real??? So you see no similarity in the process?? So just because it's a class of people rather than a race it's different?? | |||
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"Thats interesting and also quite controversial. Would the citizens wage be enough to live on, would state pensions still be paid? " I think that is missing the point. In this scenario the state is passing responsibility to the individual, if it is not enough to live on then do something about it. It would be interesting to run the numbers, I suspect it would be hugely more expensive than the current system unless there was some clawback once people earned a certain amount over and above what they were given. | |||
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"These kind of discussions always make me think that there should be some kind of basic citizens wage. Everyone who is a citizen gets a small amount of money every week/month. The same amount. What you choose to do with it is up to you. No other benefits for citizens. Just citizens wage. A citizens wage would then potentially mean that people didn't need to work so much in lower paid jobs, freeing up hours for other people to work - if they wanted to. The benefit would be that with just one system and no means testing or appointments, you massively cut costs and it might even go some way to paying for itself. Then we could concentrate on helping those who need additional help. The long term ill, the asylum seekers and the oppressed. And the only good thing I can think of about national service is that all my Norwegian friends are hot... Thats interesting and also quite controversial. Would the citizens wage be enough to live on, would state pensions still be paid? " I'm sort of with Nicecouple on this. How would it work. If it's enough to live off then what incentive is there for people to work. If it's not enough to live off then how do the people who can't get work manage (and I'm not talking about sick or disabled). | |||
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"Thats interesting and also quite controversial. Would the citizens wage be enough to live on, would state pensions still be paid? I think that is missing the point. In this scenario the state is passing responsibility to the individual, if it is not enough to live on then do something about it. It would be interesting to run the numbers, I suspect it would be hugely more expensive than the current system unless there was some clawback once people earned a certain amount over and above what they were given. " So what would happen in times when there were many more people if working age than there are jobs. I'm trying to find out how such a system would work in practical terms. | |||
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"History repeats what did Hitler did convince the people that's Jews were bad. Our Government does it more sneaky, if the Police arrest someone their first question is: Do you work? Thus establishing them as a second class person ( Neo Jew). I really don't think asking someone if they have a job or not can possibly be compared to forcing them at gunpoint on to trains to be gassed. I think your really need to get a little bit of perspective. Hitler didn't just take power and immediately begin loading the Jewish people onto trains heading to death camps. It was a gradual process of turning the general public against the Jewish people where they were blamed for all the evils that Germany as a country were suffering. This took many years and I think the point the previous poster was making is that what is happening with regards benefits claimants in this country is VERY similar to how it started in Germany.....And I agree. I see no similarity at all being making sure that people who are claiming benefits are actually entitled to them and discriminating against a whole group of people based on the ethnic origin. This point might have some credence if we were talking about immigrants or Muslims but we're not. There is absolutely no similarity at all. Are you for real??? So you see no similarity in the process?? So just because it's a class of people rather than a race it's different?? " I'm totally for real. I really don't see any similarity. And what 'class' of people are you talking about. I didn't now that unemployment was restricted to only a given 'class' of people. Can you elaborate on this please. | |||
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"Thats interesting and also quite controversial. Would the citizens wage be enough to live on, would state pensions still be paid? I think that is missing the point. In this scenario the state is passing responsibility to the individual, if it is not enough to live on then do something about it. It would be interesting to run the numbers, I suspect it would be hugely more expensive than the current system unless there was some clawback once people earned a certain amount over and above what they were given. So what would happen in times when there were many more people if working age than there are jobs. I'm trying to find out how such a system would work in practical terms." In this hypothetical example that is your problem not the states, you would have to use your initiative. Assumming the payment was set at a "survival" level, you as an individual would be left to your own devices. Of course in the real world this scheme wouldn't work, but one can argue that the current system isn't much better so maybe we should look at radical ideas. | |||
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"History repeats what did Hitler did convince the people that's Jews were bad. Our Government does it more sneaky, if the Police arrest someone their first question is: Do you work? Thus establishing them as a second class person ( Neo Jew). I really don't think asking someone if they have a job or not can possibly be compared to forcing them at gunpoint on to trains to be gassed. I think your really need to get a little bit of perspective. Hitler didn't just take power and immediately begin loading the Jewish people onto trains heading to death camps. It was a gradual process of turning the general public against the Jewish people where they were blamed for all the evils that Germany as a country were suffering. This took many years and I think the point the previous poster was making is that what is happening with regards benefits claimants in this country is VERY similar to how it started in Germany.....And I agree. I see no similarity at all being making sure that people who are claiming benefits are actually entitled to them and discriminating against a whole group of people based on the ethnic origin. This point might have some credence if we were talking about immigrants or Muslims but we're not. There is absolutely no similarity at all. Are you for real??? So you see no similarity in the process?? So just because it's a class of people rather than a race it's different?? I'm totally for real. I really don't see any similarity. And what 'class' of people are you talking about. I didn't now that unemployment was restricted to only a given 'class' of people. Can you elaborate on this please." If you claim Benefits you're classed as Poor. | |||
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"Thats interesting and also quite controversial. Would the citizens wage be enough to live on, would state pensions still be paid? I think that is missing the point. In this scenario the state is passing responsibility to the individual, if it is not enough to live on then do something about it. It would be interesting to run the numbers, I suspect it would be hugely more expensive than the current system unless there was some clawback once people earned a certain amount over and above what they were given. So what would happen in times when there were many more people if working age than there are jobs. I'm trying to find out how such a system would work in practical terms. In this hypothetical example that is your problem not the states, you would have to use your initiative. Assumming the payment was set at a "survival" level, you as an individual would be left to your own devices. Of course in the real world this scheme wouldn't work, but one can argue that the current system isn't much better so maybe we should look at radical ideas." Maybe we should. Or maybe we should have a good look at the current system, tweak it a bit to improve it and carry on. Mind you I have no idea how to make it better. | |||
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"History repeats what did Hitler did convince the people that's Jews were bad. Our Government does it more sneaky, if the Police arrest someone their first question is: Do you work? Thus establishing them as a second class person ( Neo Jew). I really don't think asking someone if they have a job or not can possibly be compared to forcing them at gunpoint on to trains to be gassed. I think your really need to get a little bit of perspective. They are trying to pull us out of Europe to make Britain a Police state. On what do you base this assertion. I'm not in favour of us pulling out of Europe but this is just fanciful. If anything there are probably more people who believe we could became a Police State by staying in Europe. Notice all the metal posts all over the country rusting because Europe won't allow cameras everywhere. No, I've not noticed them. Maybe you could tell me how many there are and where they are. Their arming up also, Who's arming up? beware of propaganda, Trust me I am, that's why I want more explanation from you about what you're saying. the BBC are owned by the state. I glad you told me that. I always thought my TV Licence money went to charity. They are arming up. Slowly but surely. WHO'S arming up? Answer the question please. I want to know The police, first "non lethal" arms, taser, pepper spray. We already gave armed response units. tasers have been proven they can be lethal, as can the baton they all carry. Tasers are only carried when a call goes out that they may be needed. For now. As I said, slowly and surely. The more we get used to seeing them, the more lethal arms will start to be seen. That's how all governments deploy all their ideas that the public are so opposed to. I agree, that is a very worrying trend, but what has it got to do with benefit claimants?" Read the comments above. I never brought the subject up. Merely answered a question. | |||
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"History repeats what did Hitler did convince the people that's Jews were bad. Our Government does it more sneaky, if the Police arrest someone their first question is: Do you work? Thus establishing them as a second class person ( Neo Jew). I really don't think asking someone if they have a job or not can possibly be compared to forcing them at gunpoint on to trains to be gassed. I think your really need to get a little bit of perspective. Hitler didn't just take power and immediately begin loading the Jewish people onto trains heading to death camps. It was a gradual process of turning the general public against the Jewish people where they were blamed for all the evils that Germany as a country were suffering. This took many years and I think the point the previous poster was making is that what is happening with regards benefits claimants in this country is VERY similar to how it started in Germany.....And I agree. I see no similarity at all being making sure that people who are claiming benefits are actually entitled to them and discriminating against a whole group of people based on the ethnic origin. This point might have some credence if we were talking about immigrants or Muslims but we're not. There is absolutely no similarity at all. Are you for real??? So you see no similarity in the process?? So just because it's a class of people rather than a race it's different?? I'm totally for real. I really don't see any similarity. And what 'class' of people are you talking about. I didn't now that unemployment was restricted to only a given 'class' of people. Can you elaborate on this please. If you claim Benefits you're classed as Poor." Total rubbish. I've claimed benefits and I've never thought of my self as being in some knew 'poor class'. And I suspect that a lot of other people who claim different benefits would not feel happy with the label 'poor class' either | |||
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"History repeats what did Hitler did convince the people that's Jews were bad. Our Government does it more sneaky, if the Police arrest someone their first question is: Do you work? Thus establishing them as a second class person ( Neo Jew). I really don't think asking someone if they have a job or not can possibly be compared to forcing them at gunpoint on to trains to be gassed. I think your really need to get a little bit of perspective. Hitler didn't just take power and immediately begin loading the Jewish people onto trains heading to death camps. It was a gradual process of turning the general public against the Jewish people where they were blamed for all the evils that Germany as a country were suffering. This took many years and I think the point the previous poster was making is that what is happening with regards benefits claimants in this country is VERY similar to how it started in Germany.....And I agree. I see no similarity at all being making sure that people who are claiming benefits are actually entitled to them and discriminating against a whole group of people based on the ethnic origin. This point might have some credence if we were talking about immigrants or Muslims but we're not. There is absolutely no similarity at all. Are you for real??? So you see no similarity in the process?? So just because it's a class of people rather than a race it's different?? I'm totally for real. I really don't see any similarity. And what 'class' of people are you talking about. I didn't now that unemployment was restricted to only a given 'class' of people. Can you elaborate on this please. If you claim Benefits you're classed as Poor. Total rubbish. I've claimed benefits and I've never thought of my self as being in some knew 'poor class'. And I suspect that a lot of other people who claim different benefits would not feel happy with the label 'poor class' either " And when was the last time you claimed benefits? I think you'll find it's very different now. | |||
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"History repeats what did Hitler did convince the people that's Jews were bad. Our Government does it more sneaky, if the Police arrest someone their first question is: Do you work? Thus establishing them as a second class person ( Neo Jew). I really don't think asking someone if they have a job or not can possibly be compared to forcing them at gunpoint on to trains to be gassed. I think your really need to get a little bit of perspective. Hitler didn't just take power and immediately begin loading the Jewish people onto trains heading to death camps. It was a gradual process of turning the general public against the Jewish people where they were blamed for all the evils that Germany as a country were suffering. This took many years and I think the point the previous poster was making is that what is happening with regards benefits claimants in this country is VERY similar to how it started in Germany.....And I agree. I see no similarity at all being making sure that people who are claiming benefits are actually entitled to them and discriminating against a whole group of people based on the ethnic origin. This point might have some credence if we were talking about immigrants or Muslims but we're not. There is absolutely no similarity at all. Are you for real??? So you see no similarity in the process?? So just because it's a class of people rather than a race it's different?? I'm totally for real. I really don't see any similarity. And what 'class' of people are you talking about. I didn't now that unemployment was restricted to only a given 'class' of people. Can you elaborate on this please. If you claim Benefits you're classed as Poor. Total rubbish. I've claimed benefits and I've never thought of my self as being in some knew 'poor class'. And I suspect that a lot of other people who claim different benefits would not feel happy with the label 'poor class' either And when was the last time you claimed benefits? I think you'll find it's very different now." So what are you saying is any one who claims benefits now is in your new 'Poor Class' even if they don't want to be. What else are you going to dictate to the deserving masses. I fail to see what relevance when I last required benefits has to do with it. Does one stop being in this 'Poor Class' as soon as you stop being on benefits? It seems to me that it is you who is discriminating against people on benefits. You've even created a whole new class for them. Why not just call it the 'benefits class' if that's what you really mean? | |||
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"So, out of interest does anyone have any plausible ideas on tackling tax evasion and benefit fraud? " I work in the building trade and am forced most of the time to work through agancies which promise me x amount of money an hour. What really happens is they pay me minimun wage and make my pay up with bonuses, thus avoiding paying the proper amount of tax. I don't like this happening. I have no choice though as every job on the government jobs board (directgov) in my area is for to work for these charlatans. I don't believe they should be advertising jobs for them CUNTS | |||
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"Thats interesting and also quite controversial. Would the citizens wage be enough to live on, would state pensions still be paid? I think that is missing the point. In this scenario the state is passing responsibility to the individual, if it is not enough to live on then do something about it. It would be interesting to run the numbers, I suspect it would be hugely more expensive than the current system unless there was some clawback once people earned a certain amount over and above what they were given. So what would happen in times when there were many more people if working age than there are jobs. I'm trying to find out how such a system would work in practical terms. In this hypothetical example that is your problem not the states, you would have to use your initiative. Assumming the payment was set at a "survival" level, you as an individual would be left to your own devices. Of course in the real world this scheme wouldn't work, but one can argue that the current system isn't much better so maybe we should look at radical ideas. Maybe we should. Or maybe we should have a good look at the current system, tweak it a bit to improve it and carry on. Mind you I have no idea how to make it better." Any system will ultimately be open to abuse. I suspect the current system despite its faults is not that bad. For political advantage and for good TV people will always focus on the worst extremes. What we need to try and do is see through the propoganda. I don't know enough about who is entitled to what to know where to start tweaking. | |||
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Needless to say I'm struggling this Christmas. P.s I do work part time, I have a younger child to care for also. | |||
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"Thats interesting and also quite controversial. Would the citizens wage be enough to live on, would state pensions still be paid? I think that is missing the point. In this scenario the state is passing responsibility to the individual, if it is not enough to live on then do something about it. It would be interesting to run the numbers, I suspect it would be hugely more expensive than the current system unless there was some clawback once people earned a certain amount over and above what they were given. So what would happen in times when there were many more people if working age than there are jobs. I'm trying to find out how such a system would work in practical terms. In this hypothetical example that is your problem not the states, you would have to use your initiative. Assumming the payment was set at a "survival" level, you as an individual would be left to your own devices. Of course in the real world this scheme wouldn't work, but one can argue that the current system isn't much better so maybe we should look at radical ideas. Maybe we should. Or maybe we should have a good look at the current system, tweak it a bit to improve it and carry on. Mind you I have no idea how to make it better. Any system will ultimately be open to abuse. I suspect the current system despite its faults is not that bad. For political advantage and for good TV people will always focus on the worst extremes. What we need to try and do is see through the propoganda. I don't know enough about who is entitled to what to know where to start tweaking." I suspect the same as you. I just get a bit fed up of people moaning about it but having no viable suggestions for alternatives. | |||
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" Would the citizens wage be enough to live on, would state pensions still be paid? " It might be enough to live on. It depends where you chose to live and how you chose to spend your money. No pensions, just citizens wage. If you choose to take out a private pension then that's up to you. Everyone gets a citizens wage. No matter how much they earn. Every day benefits are scrapped (exceptions being for non-citizens). | |||
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"If it's enough to live off then what incentive is there for people to work. If it's not enough to live off then how do the people who can't get work manage (and I'm not talking about sick or disabled)." I don't know about you, but I'd rather live in my nice, five bedroom victorian terraced house than a bedsit in the same house with eight other people. That is my incentive to work. I like nice things. I also enjoy my job. The point is though, that if I had a citizens wage then perhaps I could afford to work one day a week less. So that means that there is one day a week of work that is available to someone else. We could all work less hours, there would potentially be more jobs around because of it. | |||
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"So, out of interest does anyone have any plausible ideas on tackling tax evasion and benefit fraud? I work in the building trade and am forced most of the time to work through agancies which promise me x amount of money an hour. What really happens is they pay me minimun wage and make my pay up with bonuses, thus avoiding paying the proper amount of tax. I don't like this happening. I have no choice though as every job on the government jobs board (directgov) in my area is for to work for these charlatans. I don't believe they should be advertising jobs for them CUNTS " I'm not sure what you're saying. Do you want to receive less money in your pocket and pay more Tax, because, as far as I cam see the main beneficiary from this tax avoidance scheme is YOU. | |||
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"I've just been checking the actual statistics. According to the Citizen's Advice and every other source I looked at, Benefit Fraud costs £1.6 billion a year. However, tax evasion costs around £15 billions a year. Some difference. " So we are to assume that two wrongs make a right ???? | |||
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"If it's enough to live off then what incentive is there for people to work. If it's not enough to live off then how do the people who can't get work manage (and I'm not talking about sick or disabled). I don't know about you, but I'd rather live in my nice, five bedroom victorian terraced house than a bedsit in the same house with eight other people. That is my incentive to work. I like nice things. I also enjoy my job. The point is though, that if I had a citizens wage then perhaps I could afford to work one day a week less. So that means that there is one day a week of work that is available to someone else. We could all work less hours, there would potentially be more jobs around because of it." I don't think the economics of it would work. In order to pay this citizens wage you would have to raise the money from somewhere. That really means either Income Tax, National Insurance or Corporation Tax. If it's Income Tax or National Insurance then the amount of extra tax that would have to raised from the average tax payer would almost definitely have to be more than the amount of the citizens wage. Either way, by the time you've paid the extra tax you're probably not going to have any extra money in your pocket. If it was Corporation Tax then, in order for the company to make the same working profit, it would either have to increase the price it sold it's goods for or decrease it's cost (the wages). Again, you loose by either having your wages cut by an amount similar to the citizens wage or the price of the things you buy going up by an amount similar to the citizens wage. It may be simpler than the current system but definitely not fairer. In fact I'd say it would be only slightly fairer than giving everybody nothing at all. Now that really would be simple and have absolutely no administration costs what so ever. | |||
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"makes me so angry" Child abuse gets me angry. Apathy gets me angry. People on benefits on a telly programme? Not so much. | |||
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"So, out of interest does anyone have any plausible ideas on tackling tax evasion and benefit fraud? I work in the building trade and am forced most of the time to work through agancies which promise me x amount of money an hour. What really happens is they pay me minimun wage and make my pay up with bonuses, thus avoiding paying the proper amount of tax. I don't like this happening. I have no choice though as every job on the government jobs board (directgov) in my area is for to work for these charlatans. I don't believe they should be advertising jobs for them CUNTS I'm not sure what you're saying. Do you want to receive less money in your pocket and pay more Tax, because, as far as I cam see the main beneficiary from this tax avoidance scheme is YOU." I wish it was, but no they make my wages up to what it would be after tax. | |||
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"So, out of interest does anyone have any plausible ideas on tackling tax evasion and benefit fraud? I work in the building trade and am forced most of the time to work through agancies which promise me x amount of money an hour. What really happens is they pay me minimun wage and make my pay up with bonuses, thus avoiding paying the proper amount of tax. I don't like this happening. I have no choice though as every job on the government jobs board (directgov) in my area is for to work for these charlatans. I don't believe they should be advertising jobs for them CUNTS I'm not sure what you're saying. Do you want to receive less money in your pocket and pay more Tax, because, as far as I cam see the main beneficiary from this tax avoidance scheme is YOU.I wish it was, but no they make my wages up to what it would be after tax. " Trying to get answers from them about what actually happens to your pay is near on impossible. Most of the time i get told the questions i ask are to technical to answer. that results in me telling them to stick there job where the sun doesn't shine and living off fresh air as i'm not entitled to benefits anymore. | |||
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"I've just been checking the actual statistics. According to the Citizen's Advice and every other source I looked at, Benefit Fraud costs £1.6 billion a year. However, tax evasion costs around £15 billions a year. Some difference. So we are to assume that two wrongs make a right ???? " no it isnt but look at the resources being put into detecting either number off benefits fraud investigators 1400 number of corporate fraud investigators 10 down from 40 under this government says enough to me | |||
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"makes me so angry" Makes me angry too the way certain people get all the benefits, no questions asked then more deserving people don't. | |||
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"makes me so angry Makes me angry too the way certain people get all the benefits, no questions asked then more deserving people don't." Arguably nobody "deserves" benefits, rather they need them, or at least that is how it should work in my opinion. | |||
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"makes me so angry Makes me angry too the way certain people get all the benefits, no questions asked then more deserving people don't." You keep making statements Hilda can you evidence this particular one? Who are "certain" people and who are "more deserving"? I'm not trying to get into an argument with you but I would like to know where you get your facts from. | |||
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"makes me so angry Makes me angry too the way certain people get all the benefits, no questions asked then more deserving people don't." It's always someone else having all the jam. | |||
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"makes me so angry Makes me angry too the way certain people get all the benefits, no questions asked then more deserving people don't. It's always someone else having all the jam. "Yes isn't it just. | |||
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"makes me so angry Makes me angry too the way certain people get all the benefits, no questions asked then more deserving people don't. It's always someone else having all the jam. "Yea but who's getting the Victoria sponge that goes with it...that's what I want to know. | |||
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And they Love the Winter payments.. my old neighbour was off down the bookie today in his nice new car (leased)..
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"makes me so angry Makes me angry too the way certain people get all the benefits, no questions asked then more deserving people don't. You keep making statements Hilda can you evidence this particular one? Who are "certain" people and who are "more deserving"? I'm not trying to get into an argument with you but I would like to know where you get your facts from." Me too | |||
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"makes me so angry Makes me angry too the way certain people get all the benefits, no questions asked then more deserving people don't. You keep making statements Hilda can you evidence this particular one? Who are "certain" people and who are "more deserving"? I'm not trying to get into an argument with you but I would like to know where you get your facts from." I read a lot. Sorry if I am annoying you so much. | |||
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"makes me so angry Makes me angry too the way certain people get all the benefits, no questions asked then more deserving people don't. You keep making statements Hilda can you evidence this particular one? Who are "certain" people and who are "more deserving"? I'm not trying to get into an argument with you but I would like to know where you get your facts from. I read a lot. Sorry if I am annoying you so much." Please don't try and imply something about my post that isn't true. I specifically said I wasn't trying to get into an argument. However your response had told me all I need to know thank you. | |||
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"makes me so angry Makes me angry too the way certain people get all the benefits, no questions asked then more deserving people don't. You keep making statements Hilda can you evidence this particular one? Who are "certain" people and who are "more deserving"? I'm not trying to get into an argument with you but I would like to know where you get your facts from. I read a lot. Sorry if I am annoying you so much." Perhaps you can let us know if you think that people deserve benefits, who they are, why they deserve them and then elaborate on who doesn't but gets them anyway?? | |||
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"makes me so angry Makes me angry too the way certain people get all the benefits, no questions asked then more deserving people don't. You keep making statements Hilda can you evidence this particular one? Who are "certain" people and who are "more deserving"? I'm not trying to get into an argument with you but I would like to know where you get your facts from. I read a lot. Sorry if I am annoying you so much. Perhaps you can let us know if you think that people deserve benefits, who they are, why they deserve them and then elaborate on who doesn't but gets them anyway??" Maybe I will keep you guessing, am I allowed too. | |||
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" Or the polish woman whos husband works in bristol but she and her son live in poland as the son didnt settle here but she likes british benefits as its much more than in poland its a disgrace benefit money should not be paid to anyone outside britain if its only the hubby here then no benefit should be paid. And ill vote for farage to stop this even if he has no other policies as this one makes me mad "The polish woman? Is she from the nation of Pledge? | |||
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"Don't start me on this programme. I've already thrown the bloody remote at the tv in frustration. That Polish bloke really took the piss. I'm working my bollocks off for minimum wage and he gets the same in benefits as I pick up for a weeks graft? And the twat is building a house on it in Poland? Calm Mark, Calm . . . " | |||
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"Don't start me on this programme. I've already thrown the bloody remote at the tv in frustration. That Polish bloke really took the piss. I'm working my bollocks off for minimum wage and he gets the same in benefits as I pick up for a weeks graft? And the twat is building a house on it in Poland? Calm Mark, Calm . . . " And that's exactly what the programme what you feel. | |||
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"Don't start me on this programme. I've already thrown the bloody remote at the tv in frustration. That Polish bloke really took the piss. I'm working my bollocks off for minimum wage and he gets the same in benefits as I pick up for a weeks graft? And the twat is building a house on it in Poland? Calm Mark, Calm . . . " There has to be some clever editing nobody is as stupid as he was to disclose all that on camera. | |||
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"makes me so angry Makes me angry too the way certain people get all the benefits, no questions asked then more deserving people don't. You keep making statements Hilda can you evidence this particular one? Who are "certain" people and who are "more deserving"? I'm not trying to get into an argument with you but I would like to know where you get your facts from. I read a lot. Sorry if I am annoying you so much. Perhaps you can let us know if you think that people deserve benefits, who they are, why they deserve them and then elaborate on who doesn't but gets them anyway?? Maybe I will keep you guessing, am I allowed too." I'm sure you aren't a woman who seeks anyone's permission for anything!! If you want to say what you really think go for it, if you want to hint at it and allow others to determine what they think you are saying that is up to you. Either way is fine by me | |||
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"Last time the Tories were in they SOLD everything they could sell... They have now Sold Scotland Yard for over a £120 MILLION more than the asking price !!! Nothings Changed since Maggie the milk thief really.. "How convenient to have forgotten how Gordon Clown sold off a sizeable chunk of our gold reserves, How he retrospectively taxed peoples pensions and how he borrowed until we were in danger of going bust... All you can think of is to diss a politician who is not only dead, but the "crime" you mention was over 30 years ago.. | |||
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"Don't start me on this programme. I've already thrown the bloody remote at the tv in frustration. That Polish bloke really took the piss. I'm working my bollocks off for minimum wage and he gets the same in benefits as I pick up for a weeks graft? And the twat is building a house on it in Poland? Calm Mark, Calm . . . There has to be some clever editing nobody is as stupid as he was to disclose all that on camera." Realy? | |||
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"Benefits, love it, no tax "Most benefits are actually taxable. | |||
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"makes me so angry Makes me angry too the way certain people get all the benefits, no questions asked then more deserving people don't. You keep making statements Hilda can you evidence this particular one? Who are "certain" people and who are "more deserving"? I'm not trying to get into an argument with you but I would like to know where you get your facts from. I read a lot. Sorry if I am annoying you so much. Perhaps you can let us know if you think that people deserve benefits, who they are, why they deserve them and then elaborate on who doesn't but gets them anyway?? Maybe I will keep you guessing, am I allowed too." Well of course you can do that but, if you're not prepared to substantiate your comments with some form of empirical evidence or reference to documentation that supports what you're saying people will make their own mind up about how credible those comments are. | |||
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"makes me so angry Child abuse gets me angry. Apathy gets me angry. People on benefits on a telly programme? Not so much. " | |||
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"So, out of interest does anyone have any plausible ideas on tackling tax evasion and benefit fraud? I work in the building trade and am forced most of the time to work through agancies which promise me x amount of money an hour. What really happens is they pay me minimun wage and make my pay up with bonuses, thus avoiding paying the proper amount of tax. I don't like this happening. I have no choice though as every job on the government jobs board (directgov) in my area is for to work for these charlatans. I don't believe they should be advertising jobs for them CUNTS I'm not sure what you're saying. Do you want to receive less money in your pocket and pay more Tax, because, as far as I cam see the main beneficiary from this tax avoidance scheme is YOU.I wish it was, but no they make my wages up to what it would be after tax. Trying to get answers from them about what actually happens to your pay is near on impossible. Most of the time i get told the questions i ask are to technical to answer. that results in me telling them to stick there job where the sun doesn't shine and living off fresh air as i'm not entitled to benefits anymore." Who are you trying to get the info from. If you are trying to get the information from your place of work that's probably not the people you should be asking. Their contact will be with the agency, not you, and it could be written into their contact with the agency that they can not discuss these matters with you. Even if it's not written into their contact with the agency you can pretty much guaranty that the agency has told or recommended then not to discuss these matters with you. Your contact will, most probably, be with the agency and, if so, it is then that you should raise this issue with. And the agency that is running the Tac Avoidance scheme, not the end client (not the place where you actually work) | |||
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"makes me so angry Makes me angry too the way certain people get all the benefits, no questions asked then more deserving people don't. You keep making statements Hilda can you evidence this particular one? Who are "certain" people and who are "more deserving"? I'm not trying to get into an argument with you but I would like to know where you get your facts from. I read a lot. Sorry if I am annoying you so much. Perhaps you can let us know if you think that people deserve benefits, who they are, why they deserve them and then elaborate on who doesn't but gets them anyway??" Ok, now I have woken up I will try and explain. There was a polish woman whos husband lives in this country and she moved back to Poland with her son, she said she couldn't believe it that she gets child benefit for her kid even though she lives in Poland and that nobody ever checks up on her and that she could be telling lies to get more benefits, it was in most of the newspapers yesterday, then you get people who have worked and become unemployed who get their benefits cut so they have to go to food banks or cant pay the bills. There was a woman who was too ill to work only they said she wasn't and she commited suicide, its happenng all the time where people who have health problems and they are being told they aren't ill enough and have to find work or get no benefits. | |||
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"Don't start me on this programme. I've already thrown the bloody remote at the tv in frustration. That Polish bloke really took the piss. I'm working my bollocks off for minimum wage and he gets the same in benefits as I pick up for a weeks graft? And the twat is building a house on it in Poland? Calm Mark, Calm . . . " It was actually Romania...I do feel at times that the polish get blamed for the majority of things...there are other countries in East Europe. | |||
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"Don't start me on this programme. I've already thrown the bloody remote at the tv in frustration. That Polish bloke really took the piss. I'm working my bollocks off for minimum wage and he gets the same in benefits as I pick up for a weeks graft? And the twat is building a house on it in Poland? Calm Mark, Calm . . . It was actually Romania...I do feel at times that the polish get blamed for the majority of things...there are other countries in East Europe. "He was I think to some they are all sadly just foreigners. | |||
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"Don't start me on this programme. I've already thrown the bloody remote at the tv in frustration. That Polish bloke really took the piss. I'm working my bollocks off for minimum wage and he gets the same in benefits as I pick up for a weeks graft? And the twat is building a house on it in Poland? Calm Mark, Calm . . . It was actually Romania...I do feel at times that the polish get blamed for the majority of things...there are other countries in East Europe. "Not me though, I prefer the polish people. | |||
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"Personally I don't blame anyone for claiming anything they are legally entitled to. If the law says they are entitle to it then they are entitled to it and that's that. All questions of deserving it or not are really totally irrelevant. Their claim is legal, valid and correct, they get the benefits. However I personally believe that some actually do not deserve the benefits they get. But it's not them that I should blame but the law that allows then to make the claim. And who makes the law? The governments that we elect. We have the power to put this right without out going in a lynch mob or hysterical rampage against people who are simply doing what they are legally entitled to do. And, for the record, I feel exactly the same way about Tax Avoidance. So lets not go after the individuals for doing exactly what most people would naturally do (ie Keep as much of their own money or get the maximum amount of money they are legally entitled to). We should actually be attacking the systems and the people who created the systems that allow this to happen." . Well said that man ! I'm sure that everyone who has posted here will have the conviction to get off their bottoms next May to mark their ballot papers .... Of course they will .... | |||
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"Just consider this... a British Couple, this week visited New York, lived the high life even seeing a NBA Basketball Game Courtside over $1,350 per. seat ALL paid by others. Yet, still concerned about those wearing Tracksuits drinking Cheap Cider
I don't see what this has to do with people on benefits. What, exactly, is your point."My point is just that, this thread has gone into overload around ordinary lower working class exploiting the system whilst those deemed the highest get everything they require, living the life of utter luxury. So, what's the difference? It's that... one group is just like the majority whilst the other has been 'ordained by a higher authority'. For, those that will use the gem that they bring tourists my response is France has been a Republic for over 200yrs & year on year people still check out the Palaces
My last point, is what's the difference between a TrackSUIT & an Designer SUIT... these days  | |||
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"Just consider this... a British Couple, this week visited New York, lived the high life even seeing a NBA Basketball Game Courtside over $1,350 per. seat ALL paid by others. Yet, still concerned about those wearing Tracksuits drinking Cheap Cider
I don't see what this has to do with people on benefits. What, exactly, is your point.
My point is just that, this thread has gone into overload around ordinary lower working class exploiting the system whilst those deemed the highest get everything they require, living the life of utter luxury.
"I agree, it has gone a bit overboard about people exploiting the system but that's what this thread is about. It's not about royalty or people exploiting the civil list. If you want to discuss those issues start another thread and discuss them. " So, what's the difference? It's that... one group is just like the majority whilst the other has been 'ordained by a higher authority'. " Yep, that's pretty much the difference but I still don't see what this has to do with people claiming benefits. " For, those that will use the gem that they bring tourists my response is France has been a Republic for over 200yrs & year on year people still check out the Palaces
"Why would I want to talk about tourists in a discussion about people claiming benefits. You seem to getting further and further away from the subject all the time " My last point, is what's the difference between a TrackSUIT & an Designer SUIT... these days "A couple of hundred or even thousand quid I'd guess. But I still don't see what this has to do with people claiming benefits. Are you saying that they should be given money to buy Designer suits or that they should all have to sell any suits they have and wear track suits before they can make a claim or what. What is your point? | |||
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